Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
20 October 2008
10:537802#1
Leading financial think tank Ernst & Young has said today that the UK has now gone into recession proper. Although it has been expected it is still something of a shock for all of us.
What happens in a recession that makes it different to other times?.. asks the guy at the back. Well there is a huge contraction in the economy. People are worried about money and their jobs, so they stop buying houses , cars , tv's, and every damn thing else. So those people building and selling houses, cars, tv's, and every damn thing else, loose their jobs in turn and then we sell even less houses cars tv's etc, and it all spirals downwards right across every walk of life.
The next problem that pops up then, and to be fair to the government they have seen it coming and have over the weekend endeavoured to allay fears...the next problem to pop up then is that when we lose our jobs, we resent seeing the immigrant down the road in a steady job we would have previously turned our noses up at.He may have steady work at the lower end and we sit in the dole queue simmering with resentment at all 'the bloody foreigners'.
Is that a fair assessment? We were happy in good times to see the foreigner do the menial task but now that times are bad for you and me, we resent him having work.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
20 October 2008
10:597803#2
The immigration issue has been a 'live' one for a lot of years. The recession does not make any difference to that. Labours action on this when they came to power opened the floodgates to cheap foreign Labour.
All this was, last weekend, was a cheap soundbite, they are already backtracking on those comments.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
20 October 2008
11:087804#3
Trouble is BarryW we needed all that cheap foreign labour. Living in London for many years as i did I saw it first hand, there are a zillion jobs at the lower end in hotels, restaurants and even the NHS where nobody born and bred here will do the work or touch it with the proverbial bargepole. We turn our noses up at it because in general terms we are/were all too well off. Even the Tube transport system runs on cheap foreign labour. There is no immediate cure to the problem.
Labour now talk of some sort of capping. This capping solution was usually Conservative thinking.
Once upon a time long ago, the poorer ones from London used to come to Kent to pick apples and hops..Im not from here of course so am teaching my granny to suck eggs on this one...but would they come today. Not a chance. The orchards of Kent cannot get a soul to pick their apples. Solution: Cheap foreign labour.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
20 October 2008
11:527805#4
Actually Barry Labour stopped the cheap foreign labour much to the farmers annoyance because of the expansion of the EU.Workers flooded in from Poland etc and initially snapped up these agricultural jobs vacated by the V.O.L.A.G's and SAW's students.However whats happened now is that Poles can get better paid jobs working as tradesmen..plumbers etc.Positions that were not open to them previously.
Farmers in Kent and Anglia are crying out for the govt to let in more non EU agricultural workers in order that they can harvest their crops and pick their flowers etc.Who can recall last years pictures of acres of daffodils left uncut as the farmers struggled to obtain cheap labour.
Its a fine balancing act.We cannot restrict the movement of full EU members to come and seek employment in the UK.However they no longer want the low paid menial jobs and are now looking to improve their lifestyle and in doing so contribute much needed cash into the govts coffers.
Nurses andCarers are arriving from the Philippines.Again doing jobs that most Brits turn their noses up at,wiping an old grannys backside 8 times a day is not everyones cup of tea.But we continue to need carers in a society that cannot or wont take care of its ageing population.
One area of immigration that could be looked at are the Working Holiday Makers from the Commonwealth who visit and work in the UK for upto 2 years.They normally originate from Australia New Zealand etc.
Secondary immigration could be re-examined ie a chap who goes to India or Pakistan as an example to take a wife should he then be allowed to bring in his wifes aged parents?At prsent if the wifes mother is aged and frail and can prove that she has no-one el;se to care for her then the mother is allowed to join them in the UK.Also if the wife has kids by a previous marriage she can apply to have her children(within a certain age) join her in the UK.
You can see how this is open to abuse.It may be beneficial for some widow to pay a would be suitor to marry her in order that her children will obtain a sound education and her mother receive free health care.This does not apply to all cases but one can see how it is open to abuse.
Clamp down on Asylum applications.Scrap the Dublin agreement signed by dear old Maggie and make would be asylum seekers claim asylum in the first safe country they arrive in.This will stop the multi million pound people trafficking that goes on from the subcontinent.Only last night the Belgians claimed to have smashed a people smuggling ring arresting 11 Indians who had each paid about £15k to travel overland to the UK.Its crazy they travel through safe havens like Germany and France without claiming asylum but head here.Ask yourself why?It should be Do not pass GO and do not collect £200..
Any immigrant commiting a serious offence regardless of their status should be recommended for deportation.This does not happen at present as it all depends on the individuals personal circumstances and what leave he/she has to remain in the UK.
Visitors to the UK should be granted a maximum of 3 months leave to enter in line with the majority of other EU nations.Its currently 6 months and by the time anyone notices that the person is an overstayer the trail has gone cold.
Reintroduce embarkation control,scrapped by the Tories,its no good having controlled leave to enter if you don't check to see if that person has left the UK or not.
Introduce visa requirements for all countries other than the EU.At present a Brit needs a visa for a visit to Australia but not vice versa.
Just a few things we can and should do to firm up exsisting immigration control before we start a knee jerk Dail Mail type response of Stop all immigration.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
20 October 2008
12:077806#5
When up early on Fridays I often listen to Farming Today on Radio 4 and recently there was a piece about the Government actually ending a specialist agricultural scheme, Paul, that had previously been very successful in bringing in temporary labour to the farms. It has caused great difficulty and as a result a lot of fruit was left rotting.
This was a totally seperate issue to the mass immigration that has arisen.
Consider this, if this cheap labour was not available what would happen to the wages of those involved in these industries, they would rise of course... The normal supply/demand response making these jobs more attractive. I admit that a high level of benefits is also a disincentive for a lot of people to work in these jobs but the answer would also be to cut benefits and take a tougher line.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
20 October 2008
12:087807#6
You beat me to it Marek - I had a phone call before finishing what I was saying!!!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
20 October 2008
19:047813#7
a much more serious problem is over population, as opposed to merely immigration.
a government minister a few days ago spoke about capping the population at 70 million.
the infrastructure is designed for approx 55 million.
we can build more houses, of course, which would mean less flood plains.
we can hardly build any more reservoirs, not enough land left after the new housing developments.
roads and railways are running at full capacity, speak to any commuter that pays a small fortune to a railway company, then has to stand all the way to work.
car parking is a major issue.
a truly catch 22 situation, we continually build more housing for a rising population, yet have not the capacity
to deal with the population as it is now.
maybe another poster would like bring up the matter of schools and hospitals in this respect?
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
21 October 2008
07:367844#8
Marek mentions above about the problem of people coming here to work temporarily and then never going home. This problem was mentioned time and again on the tv programmes over the weekend just gone. This particular side of the influx should be better regulated and indeed enforced. Indeed this could be the first step towards regulating the population level.
The country cannot keep absorbing immigration because as Howard says there above we are already at over stretched capacity. Do we concrete over our green and pleasant land.
However the need for foreign workers goes on apace and although it may lull during the recession will almost certainly pick up again later. So the cure isnt an easy one. But we must implement them returning once their tenure is up.Thats got to be rule one.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 October 2008
12:217870#9
This brings me back to the time I was a town cllr and was taken to the standards Board of England two times and on both of them the Standards board came back with Cllr Matcham was in his rights to say what he said. It was in all the papers at the time for weeks.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 October 2008
19:027884#10
what was it that you said vic?
more importantly, who grassed you up?
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 October 2008
19:367892#11
Howard,It was all in the papers I do not mind if some one on the forum tells you but at the time it was very upseting to my wife and family.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
21 October 2008
20:097896#12
Vic can you tell us yourself as a number of us including both Howard and myself are relatively new arrivals in town..and many others wont either know or remember.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
21 October 2008
20:537901#13
come on vic, why the secrecy?
you cannot continue to make statements, then leave us up in the air.
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
21 October 2008
21:327903#14
Back to the Blimp !!
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 October 2008
22:017904#15
O.K I will tell all but not tonight i will have to get all the papers putout about it and it will be along post but I will not out the names because (1) Some are still in the town.(2) Because of the Election, but it was headlines in the D/E AND D/m and the some of it was in the Npapers as well.
Guest 649- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 14,118
21 October 2008
22:467906#16
JUST some of the head lines(1)We must sort out asylum issues.(2} No Action to be taken over "Naive" comments.(3)Fury at councillor in refugees tirade.
(4)Councillor in racism probe..(5] Council Racism
debate stopped. 6Council walk out in complaint case. 7 Remarks did not breach code of conduct. Matcham row continues. matcham row drags on . councillors comments investigated.Standards board clears councillor in conduct dispute with colleague,, and there were many more like this+the bad letters about me and it was all very upseting for us and it was just not true .and again later on I WAS Accused by another councillor of involvement in the sale of land called the random strip again I was in the clear and the headlines where councillor cleared over land sale this again was in the papers at the time never have I DONE ANYTHING UNDERHAND and on the asylum issues All I said was we should have a complete freeze on ALL IMMIGRATION FOR THE NEXT FOUR YEARS.. a COMLETE STOP on people entering Britain is what is needed for the country to sort its asylum issues out. I all said this is nothing to do with race . We cannot solve this problem with the back door to Britain still open, Once we have looked at everybodys claims and get back on track, then and only thenwe would open the door to asylum seekers very slightly. This is about the size of Britainand the fact we are a small Island this was not a race issues at any time .
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