Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
I think it is very sad to see the Olympic Flame treated so badly. After all is said and done, this is a symbol for peace hope and harmony between all nations, and now everyday we see it kicked about like a political football. All in the name of Tibet.
Alas however I suspect many of the protesters had not heard of Tibet until a few days ago and they are the usual mob of the disenfranchised and the disgruntled protesting about anything and everything. You name it and we'll protest about it.
While Tibet may well have a gripe or two with China, I dont know the full story, and neither do the rent-a-mob crowd either. But now the protest is gathering momentum I suppose, and will become the latest short lived fad...jeez even Hilary Clinton is jumping on the bandwagon in an effort to show pseudo concern and wrestle the 'man of the people' initiative from Barack Obama....struth!
If only the Olympic Games could be left in peace so that it can flourish in harmony for all our good....instead right now all the goodwill is being stolen by Tibet.
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
#2
We are currently in Paris - Bonjour, and it's been just as bad here.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#3
Hi Jeane..hope you two are having a nice time over there.
Yes we have been having pictures from Paris on the news here as you might expect, it seems the French authorities had to cut back the Flame's route due to widespread chaos. Its now on its way to San Francisco and no doubt more trouble, as once the idiotic ball starts rolling....etc etc
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#4
It is not necessary to have views on Tibet's claims to national independence to condemn the obscene Chinese Communist occupation of that land, and the consistent policy of the butchers of Beijing to "Sinicize" or de-Tibetanize the conquered territories. Since the Maoist invasion of 1949-51, Tibetans have lived either under a reign of terror, or in exile. They watched the Communists demolish their monasteries, and slaughter their monks, and purposefully desecrate everything of beauty and value in the Tibetan Buddhist heritage. Since then, they have watched them appropriate the cultural space with forced Chinese immigration, until by most accounts today the Tibetans are outnumbered in their own country.
We watch from a great distance while a new generation of young Tibetans, radicalized by the experience of slavery, and boldly demonstrating for the world's attention, are murdered and imprisoned in their turn by the thugs of the "People's Liberation Army."
Many tortured and killed -- to assure relative peace and quiet while the Olympic torch is carried through Tibet and the rest of the world.
Like the 1936 Olympics in Hitler's Berlin, or the 1980 Olympics in Moscow, the 2008 Summer Games in Beijing have been designed from the beginning as a celebration of the world's biggest and ugliest totalitarian regime.It should be realized, however, that the athletes themselves are relatively innocent. They are simply being used in a political stunt.
The exploitation of non-political people to make political statements is disgusting. Whatever the intentions of its idealistic promoters in the 19th century, the modern Olympic Games have become an exhibition of national chauvinism instead of amateur sport; even when they are held in free countries. But by now the Olympic movement has attached so many vested interests to itself, that we cannot hope for its elimination.
For the current massacre in Tibet, like the massacre in Tiananmen Square 19 years ago, teaches us nothing new about the nature of the regime. It merely reminds us what that is. It is unfortunate that we needed reminding.
The demonstrations have already proved as ineffectual as the Tibetan uprising, also of 1989, or the recent uprising in Burma. Unarmed demonstrators are no match for jackboots with guns, when the State functionaries are prepared to use them. Yet their courage is inspiring, and over time, they contribute to the destruction of the regime's self-confidence. We should thus honour the Tibetans' painful, Quixotic gesture.
On the question of sovereign independence for Tibet, it is worth noting that the Dalai Lama does not seek it. He has consistently sought, instead, some practical arrangement in which the Chinese State will recognize Tibet's ancient autonomy, and leave the Tibetan peoples to get on with their own lives, according to their own lights. He has little hope in the efficacy of big power arrangements to achieve real political goods, but focuses the struggle on actual human freedom.
Maybe just maybe we in the West should take some time to find out about whats happening in that corner of the globe so that we may then have a better understand the Tibetans plight.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#5
I dont profess to understand completely the Tibet /Chinese situation I do see a country whos people are fighting for their beliefs and not ruled by China.I have found some of the comments on this forum rather distressingThe Olympic Torch should signifiy peace .What is happening is a complete mockery of the word .Im pleased to see Gordon Brown did not touch the touch. Marek speaks very wisely on this subject the Olympic games has long lost the meaning of friendly competivity between all nations.We are so lucky in this country and indeed fortunate to be able to post on this matter.Freedom is so very precious .
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
i .would be amazed if there was anyone not aware of tibet, its people and culture.
it was the first country that caught my imagination as a child.
the sheer beauty of the scenery, the majestic buildings going back to the year dot, and the friendly and peaceful people made them an an easy victim.
to see the great pagodas pulled down was an obscenity.
the people used live in their own indiginous houses with their religious artefacts.
a lot of them now reside in soulless blocks of flats.
their biggest crime is that oil has not been discovered there.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#7
Great postings there Marek and Sue and Howard too just added.. I am sure the people of Tibet have a right to be heard as no doubt there are widespread injustices but I still see the Olympic Torch as a symbol of peace and hope etc so shudder to see it treated as i said above. Loony westerners trying to extinguish the flame are pathetic, as no doubt these same types of loony westerners were protesting about something else last week. Its flavour of the month right now Tibet, but do they really care. Where were they up til now?
The countries of the west are queing up avariciously to make money with the huge emerging market that is China, and all probably stepping on Tibet in the goldrush. Okay maybe now the Tibetan voice may be heard more as long as it doesnt get in the way of the golden cashcow.
I live in the fond but probably foolish hope that we can have a good Olympic Games with no disruption.
However as trends go no doubt the renta-protesters will try to ruin the one here in 2012 but by then will probably be up in arms about something else. I know too that there are genuine Tibetan protesters.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#8
paul
sadly, china is the milch cow now so the poor tibetans have no chance
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#9
With reluctance here is a little bit of politics into this area of website so I apologise in advance... but was disenchanted myself at Gordon Brown the prime minister yesterday, who was caught dithering yet again. He carefully, I noted recently, managed to avoid touching the Olympic Flame and now he is sort of going to the Olympics but not really going..will miss the opening ceremony but ermmm he might go to the closing ceremony or he might maybe could do although maybe if something crops up he might not.. or maybe if..no. He sounds like Lurcio in Up Pompeii !..and I'm saying this as a Labour fan.
His predecesser Tony Blair made decisions and went for it. He didnt totally check public opinion first before dithering forward. He did what he though was right, which isnt always a popular thing to do, and then carried it through. Although he was a master of media manipulation he nevertheless went for things...made decisions.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#10
He got caught out dithering..but what he now needs to do to retrieve the situation is state his reasons for not attending the opening..ie..Tibet and Chinas Human Rights record etc
and also say why he will be attending the closing ceremony..ie picking up the baton so to speak for UK Olympics 2012.
We shall wait and see.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#11
It's not the protesters who have it wrong - whoever thought it would be a good idea to condone and collude with China by awarding them the olympics given their appalling and continuing Human rights record? Could it be that businesses wanted to find a way in to the huge China markets.......surely we are not putting commerece before Humanity? Say it ain't so...!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#12
I thought forumites might be interested in the following statement.
Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama said he supports China's hosting of the Summer Olympics, but insisted nobody had the right to tell protesters demanding freedom for Tibet "to shut up".
"We are not anti-Chinese. Right from the beginning, we supported the Olympic Games," he told reporters outside Tokyo on a stopover on a trip to Seattle. "I really feel very sad the government demonises me. I am just a human, I am not a demon."
Protests have been held in cities around the world in a show of sympathy for Tibet, where anti-government riots erupted last month. The Olympic torch relay has faced massive demonstrations, most recently in San Francisco.
The Dalai Lama said the demonstrators had the right to their opinions, though he called for non-violence.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
#13
Saw on the news last night, someone from Chinese government, didn't pay attention to who he was stating that they would show NO MERCY towards the protestors.
One can only hazard a guess as to what that means, but I am sure it isn't going to be nice
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#14
I could be kind and suggest it was a figure of speech Mandie but I dont have the confidence to be able to say that. Depends whether they think they could hush up any 'lack of mercy'. Perhaps they will wait until after the Games to crack down.
China has made great progress economically since opening up their system to free enterprise, but until they democratise fully and get rid of the Communist old guard, they will never be able to be fully regarded as a civilised country.
Guest 654- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 169
#15
Barryw
We can agree there