Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#1
You can see though why so many people get so hot and bothered over the EU.
The Minister for Europe, a second rate Blair babe called Caroline Flint, admitted yesterday that she has not read the Lisbon Treaty.
It was during a European Committee meeting when the treaty was key to the documents they were debating. She was being very vague with her answers and was challenged, hence her admission. She did say she had been briefed on some it it. Not really good enough for a Minister, discussing their own ministerial brief when facing a Committee debate.
To recap, this is the 'Treaty' that was originally called a Constitution, which was rejected by several countries in referenda, only to be brought back renamed a Treaty to avoid all but Ireland having to have more of those annoying referenda. The Irish, bless 'em, then rejected it in their referendum but are going to be forced to vote again because they did not give the EU the answer it wanted.
We, of course, were promised a referendum too in the election by the Government, but then they reneged on that.
Flint's admission is even more astonishing therefore given just how controvercial this is.
It is not as if its not an important issue, look at what it covers:
A new EU president
An EU foreign minister
An EU diplomatic service
The European Court of Justice having jurisdiction over key elements of criminal legislation (including arrests and sentencing)
More powers for Europol
The EU setting uniform standards for asylum seekers
Legally binding status for the Charter of Fundamental Rights
The abolition of national vetoes and new areas where no veto will apply
And probably worse of all a ratchet clause allowing the EU to abolish any non-defence national veto without a new Treaty.
What is extraordinary is that not having read it she offered opinions on it and appears in Hansard as saying the Lisbon treaty is good for the United Kingdom and good for Europe. I suppose then she was told to say that and not to bother her pretty little head about why, I can just picture Mandelson saying that.
OK, Ken Clarke also made a simular blunder in admitting he had not read the Maastricht Treaty but at least he was not the Minister responsible for it. Even so he rightly got into a lot of hot water at the time.
Is this really the way to govern? Blind leading the blind, not quite, those being led know a damn site more than those doing the leading.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#2
mmm yes well arnt our policital partys doing that now,personly i cant any thing wrong with it,its baisicly the same as our constitution here in the uk.the lisbon treaty is a beefed up one of ours.if you are frightend of change barry move some where else.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#3
Change is good Brian, but only the right change.
Change that places more power over our lives into the hands of the EU is not a good change.
You would be happy then to see the Mother of Parliaments relgated to a County Council status.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#4
Mother of Parliaments?
I take it from the above. Barry, that you must be referring to the Isle of Man parliament?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#5
regional assemberlys work better than national ones,the reason being more local knoledge that leads to better governace on the infrastruture.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#6
totally disagree with you brian.
i would like to keep one clear national assembly, albeit with the petty cash vouchers locked away.
then nothing else until county and district level.
destroy all regional government, quangos and assorted hangers on.
only the would we know where all the money is.
county and district council clearly publish all expenses paid to councillors.
parliament will be forced to do so soon.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#7
howard,you missed my point still keep natiniol goverment,but a reginol one runs percific areas,it works well on the continent.this means that roads,paths,street furneture etc are kept up to scratch and no groverling to goverment for funding.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#8
still disagree brian, i do not know how it works on the continent, but we need much more local control.
it helps stop, just as an example, a river councillor having it away with our seats and bins.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#9
correct Howard, Regional assemblies need the chop.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#10
howard,its quite simple any money collected locally stays local.barryw,the next time you are in france do some reserch on the regional assembalys i think you will find they do work well.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#11
France is not here, we have a totally different system.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#12
in that case cheak it out any way. we used to be joined to france at one point.
#13
The point, I think, is that a minister for Europe had not taken the time to read the very treaty about which member states are in conflict - quite rightly in my opinion. Shame on her, and on the governmebt who tolerate this shoddy work.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
#14
Barry, I found this after a quick internet search. I do not know the website but from its tone its views would seem to chime with yours i.e. just ever so slightly right of centre
"It is doubtful if more than a handful of our legislators devoted the necessary time to digesting European legislation before they voted on it. Certainly our representative at Maastricht did not: "Now we've signed it - we had better read it," as the then Foreign Secretary (Douglas Hurd) reportedly said on 7 February 1992 - a frivolous remark perhaps, but, tragically, all too true".
http://www.eurofaq.freeuk.com/eurofaq/
Mark
#15
We don't have to be right or left of anything to know that the EU was a doomed enterprise and any benefits would not outweigh the pitfalls. Barry tends to the right and I tend to the left (stop it!!) and we both feel the same about the EU. Difficult to know what Caroline Flint thinks about it, given she has not read the document........
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#16
one day we will be ruled by a dictater perched on top of some central european mountain,chuking euros into our pay packets wheaterwe wont them or not,driveing on the wrong side of road and every thing done in metric.,no more pounds and ounces,yards or miles,liters of every thing and conpulsery freanch and german lessons.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#17
there have been a few dictators in the past that thought they would rule europe.
hasn't worked so far, doubt if it ever will.
too many languages, cultures and beliefs for anyone leader or group to control.