Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
There is a very interesting editors column in the Dover Express this week from..well presumably Simon Finlay..although Simon's profile seems a lot lower than it once was..is he still there??..but anyway I digress. It hits the age old problem that we have spoken about on here in the past many times..ie the link or lack of link between the Cruise Ships docking and passenger numbers drifting into the town itself. The newspaper elsewhere reports that prospective cruise calls are up and thats great, but it benefits the rest of us in the community not a jot. No passengers, or few, come into the town and spend any money at all. You may see a hapless and forlorn few gathered with hands in pockets around the less than spectacular fountain, gazing at the distant castle...but apart from that?...
Its a sad state of affairs alright. One can gaze out on these great ships and look at the wealth thereon and feel like the urchin outside the restaurant with his nose presssed against the window pane, as fat lot of good it does us, no tasty morsels ever come this direction.
On the contrary, each ship is met by a vast line of colourful coaches ready willing and aalllll toooo able to whisk the affluence off elsewhere, bypassing Dover at great haste.
But whats to be done...?? aaah, if only we knew.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#2
That is so true Paul, Dover has such a lot to offer and other nations love history and would be so interested in seeing ours - if they knew what was where. As Roger (bless him) has said so many times, we need someone assigned to the job of making sure visitors know what there is for them to see here in White Cliffs country. Our charity supported places, like The Mill, The Castle, The Drop Redoubt etc etc would all benefit, apart from the local shops. Then of course from that flows word of mouth - these visitors tell their friends when they get home, show them the photos and videos they've taken and bingo - you have a roll on effect that sets Dover up for more visitors. It just needs the right man or woman in the job and so much could be done. OK funding would be necessary but this would surely pay for itself within a couple of years? Am I being too idealistic? I don't think so
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#3
There is money in it for the cruise companies to sell trips to Canterbury or London. What is in it for them to promote Dover?
Sad but a fact of life and I really am not sure how we get around that.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#4
Working Part-time down at the Cruise Port,only on change overs not port of call,it always strikes me how little we do to promote our area,there is an information desk at the Cruise Terminal it is very rarely manned,might be different on Port of call,the leaflets advertise everything Kent,and are not cared for they can easily get dogged eared,these leaflets that were left down there over the winter months are just the ones I need at the train station to direct people to the Castle Band B's and other places,normally the Tourist Information Centre are very good,but they run out of leaflets on a regular basis and if I want a box load have to pick them up myself.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 659- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 331
#5
It seems crazy to me that Dover isn't promoted more as a place to stay. There are loads of places to go, the castle and the corn mill, to name just two. It is also a good town, I am always amazed at how clean the centre is compared to other areas I have seen. I always see tourism on town and district council agendas but don't see any promotion anywhere else. Perhaps it is there and I am looking in the wrong places, I would be interested to know. (Isn't Chris Precious organising leaflets for various areas with history and points of interest?)
#6
Don't tell me there is a lack of advertising and promotion for Dover and all its interesting and cool landmarks and history? I don't believe it..........and I had been convinced it must be my own fault thatI had missed all the hard work that people paid to promote Dover and attract visitors had put in to ensure we were not bypassed. My own fault that I have seen just about nothing that would make me, if I were a tourist, want to see what Dover is about, despite that many lovely, interesting, enjoyable bits that make up what we call Dover. My own faul tthat I did not appreciate the parking fees, boarded up shop windows and derelict streets that first greet visitors. Say it ain't so..........
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#7
A day or so ago and this shot shows the fountain getting ready for the tourism influx..or not, as the case may be. Hadnt quite seen our premier fountain stripped down so bare before but it looks like the guys were doing a thorough job on it.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#8
that chap horace does a great job with visitors in market square, he speaks a few languages.
the problem is the cruise customers that have walked from the terminal down the bench street and king street
have already formed an opinion on dover.
many turn back before market square.
#9
Sad but true......Dover has loads of great stuff to offer, but I have to say if I were a tourist I would be feeling depressed before reaching Market Square, and as you say, might well have turned back before then. It is a shame. Dover's great!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#10
There is a group of people at the cruise terminal )only on cruise days of course and only on part of calls, called "the cruise-welcome group".
The trouble is that they have been told (by the cruise companies I understand) to be passive when it comes to welcoming the passengers.
This is very very silly and loses us a lot of visitors.
When the passengers have come off of the ship and are going on a day-excursion to anywhere - Leeds Castle, Canterbury, London or wherever, they are walking in a determined way to get on their coach and probably earlier than most if not all of those who are not going on an organised day-excursion.
Those who are coming into Town can take a bus or coach and they will not be walking in such a determined way, through the cruise terminal, so it will be easy to tell the difference; the cruise welcomers can then be pro-active and go up to people and say something along the lines of:
"good morning sir/madam, are you going into Dover ? may I give you some information on things to see and do here, some of the historic sites and attractions - all well worth a visit ?
If you'd like to visit Sandwich or Deal, you can take this bus from here, or there is a local tour-bus that will take you to the Dover sites.
If you take this (Dover Loyalty) card it allows you discounts on your purchases at all the places on the back - there's shops, pubs, cafe's and restaurants etc. also discounts on the Museum and Bronze-Age Boat in the Town's Market Square; the 70 seater Southern Queen boat which takes you all around the harbour etc. -much more fun than a big ship; there's also Crabble Corn Mill, a wonderful hidden gem if ever there was one - it's Europe's best working early 19th. Century Water Mill.
You can take a tour of the Mill, see flour being milled and take lunch or a snack in the tea-room which over looks the lake there - a beautiful setting."
We need to sell the sizzle (of Dover), not just the sausage (here's the Town, now get on with it - leaving everyone to their own devices, as is done presently).
Richard Mahoney, who runs the Southern Queen, also has a licensed and insured bus that can take people where ever they want to go, but on cruise-days could be asked to run round to these historic sites, also of course, the Transport Museum and the Roman Painted House (both of which are not members of the loyalty-scheme.)
This bus/tour service would be a chargeable fee of course, but one I'm sure would be taken up if the passengers knew about it - from the cruise-welcome people.
I had in fact created two local day-excursions for Dover sites (The Bronze-Age Boat, the Roman Painted House and Crabble Corn Mill for one and The Battle of Britain Museum at Hawkinge and the Battle of Britain Memorial at Capel for the other one). Lunch of course was included and so was shopping time in Dover.
These were submitted to KTA; they were approved by them (so I was told) but nothing came of them, they didn't get promoted to the cruise lines, so didn't really get off the ground at all.
There's no one I know of with any passion for tourism for Dover in any position of authority; there are people who work very hard, but sadly they're not the same person, or rather that they are not in a position to be able to make it work.
Sorry it's a long posting, but it does go some way to explain why we (Dover) do not get the benefits we should from the cruise business.
Roger
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#11
Excellent posting Roger
I agree you come up with these sound business ideas to promote Dover submit them to the appropriate bodies only to find that it has been pushed to the bottom of the pile and lies there for years stagnating.
I was told by one prominient shopkeeper that even the Filipino crew are now being whisked off to London or Canterbury..how I am going to sell 50 large boxes of Pork Crackling this summer is beyond me...lol..
How about reduced entry prices to some of these attractions to Cruise Liner passengers and crew?Surely a % of an entry fee is better than none at all.
Maybe a group of Forumites could go down to the Cruise Liner Terminals handed out leaflets on Dovers attraction etc?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#12
Roger excellent post and very interesting as always.. good posts all round above too, very interesting to read what people think on this.
Roger one slight thing though I would differ with, I agree with the Cruise Operators in that they dont want their rather well-to-do customers harassed to go hither and tither when leaving the ship. If I was a passenger on a cruise I would prefer 'passive'..the last thing needed from their perspective is to have people hawking as you disembark.
Besides it is already too late in the game at that stage.
At that stage 50 coaches are already lined up prebooked ready to whisk all arrivals off...so presumably the cruise passengers have been sold the Canterbury tours and whathaveyou earlier in the game. The Richard Mahoney angle sounds good but would have to be introduced to the cruise passengers earlier via some kind of representative. Its too late as they come down the gangplank as they are already committed.
#13
I am sure some deals could be worked out - the ideas above are great. It seems such a shame that people miss out on Dover.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#14
it was said earlier in the thread that the cruise companies have a vested interest in their own coach tours.
too right, they charge a small fortune for them.
it seems wrong that we are not allowed the opportunity to explain what is available to them here.
once they compare the costs of a day in dover against the price of a day trip with the cruise company, we will see an improvement in visitors.
interesting post from roger, athought occurred to me the other day(not a common happening), how about english heritage handing out a dover loyalty card to their customers as they enter the castle.
would be about time they acknowledged the existence of our town.
when you drive out of the castle there is a sign from them urging people to visit their premises at deal and walmer.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#15
Thanks Paul.
I wasn't talking about harrassing people as they come off of the ship, but if they are not going on a day-excursion, but actually coming into Dover, I'd have thought they would have been only to happy to be advised what they can see and how to get there.
If we can't get the message across to the cruise passengers coming into Dover, then we can't get their business, but what would be even better, is to get Dover and what we have here, onto the cruise lines web-sites, even our own web-sites need to make it easier to see what is where.
Howard, I have spoken to English Heritage (and the National Trust) about the Loyalty Scheme, but because they have their own scheme, they were not interested, but maybe having Loyalty Scheme leaflets and cards etc. up there may be worth exploring.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#16
i assumed you had thought of that one roger.
just very annoying the high handed attitude of english heritage.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#17
I did ask about having the cards up there shortly after I took over the Loyalty Scheme - I asked the same at the National Trust at the Langdon Cliffs, but they both said no.
I understand there are new people at the Castle, so maybe I'll ask them again.
Roger
Guest 651- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 5,673
#18
Roger - have sent you an e-mail about the Castle
Been nice knowing you :)
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#19
Thanks Paul - very useful.
Roger
