Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#1
This is Howard's Future of Policing thread
I have severe reservations about PCSO's & their functions.
I have yet to see enforcement powers that they hold being used & their ability to police communities being effective as opposed to full time "beat" officers presence.
This proposals in South Yorks. is a move too far. It might deliver more bodies but little enforceable policing.
This is an issue for candidates for Kent Police Commissioner.
Watty
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
#2
Going down a level Paul, what about DDC's Civil Enforcement staff? All they do is issue tickets for parking offences. If, as their grandiose title suggests they deal with civil matters, what about litter, dog's mess etc?
If they won't, and I mean won't as opposed to don't, deal with these matters, then return to calling them Parking Wardens.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#3
i thought they were still called parking wardens, i must try harder to keep up.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#4
Indeed Terry and this is subject to lively debate within the system.
PCSO'S, CEO'S ,Community Wardens needs a seperate debate.
Watty
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
#5
PCSOs, CEOs, Community wardens - I'd like to go back to the days when Rozzers did it all!
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#6
Here, here Ray!
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#7
i still cannot work out the functions of each, i sometimes wonder if they do.
we will not go back to the days of the traditional copper, much better to train more pcso's and give them more powers.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#8
If a PCSO comes across a violent crime in progress, his powers (over and above the powers enjoyed by citizens) are limited to requesting the name and address of the perpetrator. As much good as a chocolate teapot.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 703- Registered: 30 Jul 2010
- Posts: 2,096
#9
Another story about our impotent emergency services, 5 fire engines and 25 firemen ( how many
) sent to rescue a drowning seagull and they couldn't do anything because of their risk assessment - not that I'd want anyone to risk their life for a seagull but it could have been a person and the same rules would apply. All they could do was call for an animal rescue worker to do the job with a net and waders.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2128585/Group-25-firemen-called-rescue-seagull-3ft-deep-pond-elf-safety-says-risky.htmlGuest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#10
PaulW, adding PCSOs to Police presence is good, but replacing the Police with PCSOs could only be a response to budget restrictions imposed by the Gov. UK.
If this be the case, then perhaps a letter to Parliament might help. If you have concerns that Kent's Police may have to follow suit, then I would recommend you take this action, so that they know what you, and many others, think.
I do not feel happy at the prospect of the Police presence being reduced, and believe community officers should be out and about, but not to replace the Police.
Being concerned, I'm taking the occasion offered here to express this concern to you.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
#11
Well I'm not going to cry Livingstone tears over this one. It was plainly obvious what the purpose of PCSO's what in the first place. Of course David Blunkitup is shedding Livingstone tears over this one because he's been rumbled.
Ahh politics eh?
They're all the same red, blue or yellow.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#12
You might be right, there, Philip, we must put security above politics.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#13
Alex. I have constantly raised this PCSO function with Kent Police as have other Kent Leaders to no avail.
No info supplied on PCSO tickets issued.
Powers of enforcement explained but not applied.
Powers extended under this Chief Constable still not applied.
Is this a local Police Commander decision or fear of Police Federation?
We do not need another set of chatty pseudo sociologists.
Watty
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
#14
What is proposed in South Yorks appears to already be the case in many of the villages that surround Dover. Certainly on many issues the first and last point of contact for villagers has been the PCSO for some time. We only seem to get police constables out to the villages for very serious 999 matters when they come a-racing through with blues and twos.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#15
Yes Neil & is that acceptable when they don't use their powers?
Watty
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#16
the problem is that some pcso's are very good while others simply are not up to it.
p.c.s.o's sometimes cover too wide a geographical area as in villages where they may have to cover 2 or 3.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#17
So that means we don't even know what powers PCSOs actually have, Paul.
But that said, the Police can't do more than so much to cope with their imposed budget.
I wonder what the local MP has to say on all this, should be also of his concern, really.
I too often see Police cars racing up London Road out to the villages, and wonder why they don't have some permanent Police station out there. Would save time and petrol.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
#18
You are right Paul, anti-social elements are supremely confident that they can get away with most everything because the PCSO will do almost nothing and by the time the PCSO's report has been submitted and 'triaged', the damage has been done, the moment has passed, the excuses and defenses are well prepared and, if a full constable is deemed necessary by the powers that be, it is more often than not too late for the contable's involvement to do any lasting good. A most unsatisfactory state of affairs.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,226
#19
So in November you will be voting for a Police Commissioner , this is the time to test whether your views on the type of policing you want can be made.
MP's are just spokesman to government unless they vote against Budget allocations they have no powers. Select Committees can make recommendations but they can be ignored.
Police work to the Chief Constable who is responsible to both the Police Authority & Home Secretary.
Watty
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#20
Thanks for the information, Paul.
The Home Secretary, yes, she's been having a lot of problems with the UKBA, and complained how these do not deport foreign criminals when they should do.
So I fear we're going to be talking around in circles now. One will point the finger at the other.
