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  without wishing to change the main subject of the thread keith raises another issue with his use of "badly lit dover".
  
  all over the country councils have been darkening streets using the get outs of cutting down on light pollution and trotting out cliches about carbon footprints.
  
  we all know it is about saving money with scant regard to the safety of us citizens.
  
  in the last couple of weeks we have had nasty incidents in or close to the town centre, any less lighting would give encouragement to the criminal element.

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