Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#1
In another thread(since closed) some emotions did get a little heated, but that is because views are very strong both for and against the future of the fox.
Certainly if posters are happy to see the fox ripped to threads whichever way that may be, it does beg the question who are we to judge?
This moves us on then to are we the superior race when we do such things to the environment or animals or others.
There will be some posters who feel that animal welfare is not as important as the economy, and thats a viewpoint.
Whilst others will have strong viewpoints that we have no right to kill animals for the fun of it, or for no reason.
I'v always felt that we have a wide ranging lot of views and we should be able to debate them, and if your pro or anti the fox we should be able to discuss the issue
so i felt it only right to return to the old thread maybe to outline my view
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#2
There are perhaps different drivers on this issue depending on whether it is the Urban or Rural Fox population under discussion.
As far as the Urban Fox population is concerned a cull must be considered. In the normal course of events ( I assume) the population is bound to grow beyond it's means before natural mortality curbs the numbers and there will be those in the community who would rather feed them than allow them to stagger off by way of starvation.
I am sure the niche in nature that allows the Fox to thrive also allows for a varied diet. Scavenging from domestic waste is bound to be costly in many ways and where I live letting nature take it's own course and it's toll on the Park Ducks and Geese is a non starter.
Even if, by some miracle, the Fox could be encouraged to live off the feral Pigeon, and there are signs that pigeon is on the menu, the fox population would still grow beyond it's, and our, means.
Maybe it is time for the introduction of the 'Contraceptive Food Pellet'.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#3
TOM;
The cull has never been an effective way of reducing fox numbers rural or urban
they just regroup.
its an emotive issue which will be debated for some time to come
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#4
i don't think there has ever been a fox cull.
good points raised by tom in regard to the urban fox.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#5
with regard to a cull, surely fox hunting is a form of a cull
as fox hunters would tell you
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#6
Let's not get too excited from the off Keith. A Cull would certainly reduce numbers, the clue is in the word itself. Nor should we fall into the trap of considering any sort of, "final solution". The point is that their numbers will increase beyond the point of sustainability and acceptability.
Having foxes trotting about the urban landscape and gambolling in the dappled shade upon ones' lawn are positive reminders of the wider world, but by the time we have them joining the queue at the local Food Bank and off to pastures new via public transport it will need more than good humour and a love of nature to accept that situation.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#7
TOM;
I don't get excited, just giving a point iof view.
with regard to your post you make it clear fox hunting is in fact a form of a cull, your issue is with the urban/rural fox.
fox's like any other animal/human will go where food content is.
so it can come down to the human race doing more to not leave foodstuffs laying about, or badly discarding them.
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#8
Keith,
I am no fool!
I have been talking of the Urban Fox. As I live in the largest conurbation 'tis only well and good that I do just that.
Therefore, I have not, in any way-shape-or-form, alluded to Fox Hunting. 'Sport' was furthest from my mind.
I have, however, covered the 'food-waste/fox population sustainability' issue. If we were to be entirely rigorous in keeping food-waste secure people would far rather feed the urban fox than have them crying all about the place, for want of sustenance, or perishing on an ad-hoc basis upon the streets or parks.
Or, (Heaven forfend!) feigning a Scots accent and have their paws out in shop doorways.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#9
answered tom
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
#10
Well that has opened up the debate no end....................
Tom, thank you for your insights - good points well made, without criticism of anyone else.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#11
BERN;
You have on a number of threads made points of disagreement which are welcomed, and we dont have to agree
and probably won't.
but that said i do have(like many posters) differing views from others
but getting back to the thread, my political career would never have taken place had wildlife not come into my world.
protection of badgers/fox's
so maybe its all there fault lol
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#12
The fox is a problem to farmers especially free-range hens
Should it be killed buy rich knobs on horseback smearing blood on there children's foreheads I don't thinks so
Should it be trapped and killed yes
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#13
keithb
we probably wont ever agree
apart from sharing the view on fox hunting
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Guest 745- Registered: 27 Mar 2012
- Posts: 3,370
#14
If you're my old drinking mate from the white horse we used to agree on a lot of things
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#15
if you contact paulb he has my e mail address old one you sent e mail to has been shut down
if you contact paulb by e mail he will pass it on to you
in my younger days i did use
the malvern, white horse, salutation, british queen(at times)
the imperial.
so you may be right
will wait the e mail
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#16
There will always be those who feed the urban fox the same as those who feed the seagulls and pigeons.
Tom makes some very good points
Keith, wildlife has a lot to answer for.
Keith B, very well put.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#17
[I think the following is a line from a song in Disney's The Sword In The Stone...]
"For every Yin there is a Yang..."
And so for everybody that says 'day' there is one that says 'night'.
I think, on the issue of urban foxes anyway, nobody is saying "kill them all", nobody is advocating that a fun-time be had. Yet left to their own devices foxes shall create a problem for themselves. Who, or what creature, is there to regulate matters?
In the wide open (not so open) spaces of National Parks the supposed balance of nature is ordered by man in a variety of ways. Rather than have vigilante groups roaming the crepuscular city environs armed to the teeth I am sure that contraception could work in SUSTAINING the happy medium of wilderness-cityscape co-habitability.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#18
lets see tom how things go on
but maybe the human race is as much at fault
ALL POSTS ARE MY OWN PERSONAL VIEWS
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
not necessary to read this link as there is a documentary on the subject tomorrow at 8 pm on channel 4.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/wildlife/9233744/FOXCAM-Secret-Life-of-the-urban-fox.html