Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#1
I dont have Sky so was unable to see this when it was broadcast. The DVD is now out and I have watched all 5 episodes and what a superb series it is.
He must win an award for what must be both the most dangerous documentary filmed and the most 'naturally' produced exposing the film crew to real and significant danger. Ross Kemp, who I know from Ultimate Force, has an image of a tough guy but, of course, is really a luvvy actor. It was quite funny when he was on the range having to learn how to fire an assault rifle, (he had to pass a test so he could defend himself in case of a 'last man standing' situation), when his score of 18 was announced (low but just enough to pass), the announcer said 'SAS my a*se'.....
I challenge anyone watching this not to feel a sense of pride in how our troops are conducting themselves in Afghanistan. Not long ago one of my clients, an Army reservist who has since re-joined full time is going to Afghanistan in May, told me how he was abused by some students in Canterbury when he was in the town centre in uniform. These ignorant fools branded him a 'child killer'. My blood boiled to hear that and just how he stopped himself giving them a good hiding I will never know.
This documentary series should be compulsory viewing in schools so the children can understand just what is happening.
If you have not seen it you will not regret buying the DVD.
Guest 658- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 660
#2
I watched it and was surprised by Ross Kemps performance and humility throughout, but to answer your point about it being compulsory viewing in schools it will never happen the government would never permit it. Before i get attacked by any labour posters i said the government not this government all parties are as bad as each other when it comes to respecting servicemen and women.
beer the food of the gods
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#3
I havent seen this programme either Im afraid but yes it sounds interesting. I did see a trailer of it on one of the satellite channels and he was certainly in the frontline so hats off to him for that, and to his news crew.
But as for it being shown in schools...I mean it will never happen under any government. Can you imagine the uproar from parents, most of whom reject the need for war, and particularly the need for these recent wars. Hands up those who think our presence in Irag and Afghanistan will make any difference in the long run!!? This does not mean the troops are not respected though, but to show it in schools would be just an inappropriate use of the material, or indeed ...propoganda!!?..as some have called it.
#4
Ross Kemp is brilliant in this role. He also does a program called something like Ross Kemp and gangs. or toughest gangs. Oh I don't know,
But anyway he is brill in that aswell. He tries to look at all the angles on the subject and I have to say, because of how he conducts the interviews and stuff. Is awesome for this sort of thing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#5
guzz.
I dont agree that 'all parties are the same'. That is not to say that Conservative Governments have been perfect but they would not have allowed the current appalling funding situation to arise. The key difference between the Parties is that the Conservatives have ex-Forces people prominent among their numbers including in the Shadow Cabinet. There is a much better understanding of military matters in the Conservative Party which does not have a large or influential pacifist lobby as the Labour Party has.
As for this programme being shown in schools, why not? It is not about support for the war but about what our troops are going through and that is something everyone should understand. Sometimes you have to stand up to the extreme pacificst minority.
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
#6
I have seen this programme and yes in terms of presenting a serious matter in terms of entertainment, it does a very good job. It is however painfully clear the subtext of this and other reports presented to the general public. First of all we have to look at the program in context: it is a factual programme that promotes a specific view of a subject for the purpose of entertainment. Sky One, and Rupert Murdoch for that fact, are not in the business of making educational material. We have to accept the fact that what is being presented to us is a rather edited view of reality and as a result should not be presented to young people as unbiased fact.
I fully support our troops and young people should be made aware of the work they are doing and why. They should also be allowed to question this objectively. We don't have to look too far into the past to see propaganda used in the first and Second World Wars to aid morale and war spirit. These techniques have become even more sophisticated in our media age. The powerful moving imagery from the bombing of pearl harbour was undoubtedly a tool in the calling to arms of the USA. We are now in a position where the MoD and the media have created a rather slick symbiotic relationship, where the true events are not always presented. I'm certainly not suggesting any kind of sinister conspiracies, but would not completely believe the mass media coverage of many events. I think I have mentioned before my good friend who is an ex-Royal Marine Commando and how the first hand events of the Falklands differ from the media and now 'historical' records. I think the MoD specified an exclusive 18 hand picked reporters to cover the whole Falklands Conflict.
I do think awareness is very important and our thoughts should be with our troops, they are fine people. I would just be wary of swallowing everything we are told. An old school friend works in the department of health and we had a conversation a few weeks ago about how information is filtered into the public domain, I should imagine the MoD works in a similar way. It is a responsible approach and our governments are not out to lie to us, however we must not lose the ability to be analytical and questioning. Ross Kemp after all is a trained actor!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#7
DT1, and I thought I was cynical....
Are you suggesting that what you describe as the "propaganda used in the first and Second World Wars to aid morale and war spirit." was a bad thing? I would suggest it was essential to winning the war.
The Afghanistan conflict is different to WW2 where the whole nation was involved directly in a fight for survival. There was no faking the bullets Kemp was dodging and no acting in the real fear he felt at times. The emotion when he was speaking to the families of soldiers who lost their lives was not faked. Neither was the heroism of the troops under fire.
It is time that children learned what 'real' heroes are like rather than the false 'celebrity' so called heroes and overpaid nancy boy footballers....
This programme was a well produced and honest account of what our troops are doing in Afghanistan, there is no doubt about that.
Guest 644- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,214
#8
Not having Sky, I have not seen any of this series. I do have a slight worry that normally whenever a TV crew films a military unit, especially those fronted by an actor or Prince Harry, they are always depicted as being fully equipped, flak jackets, armour, the lot. Given the endless reports of supply shortages amongst the troops in even basic equpiment (as has been brought up on these forums many times), how realistic is the portrayal?
Also, I wonder how the unit Kemp was stationed with felt having to drag someone to the front line with them who was probably receiving a six or seven figure sum for being there, whilst they had to put their lives on the line for £20k or thereabouts.
I would still like to see the series though. Ever cynical I'm afraid.
Oh, last point. If this 'documentary' was to be proposed to be shown in schools as education, I'd like to hear our Mr Dimmocks' opinion of the proposal!
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#9
History is the version of past events that people have decided to agree upon.
Napoleon Bonaparte (1769 - 1821)
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#10
all the veterans of war that i have met. always go on about the horrors.
perhaps we might listen more to them than soap actors doing cheap documentaries.
#11
What really matters is that, whatever your take on War in general and about specific Wars, there are people who dedicate their lives and careers to serving their country and protecting us, risking life, limb and sanity in the process, expecting their families to support them and put up with mostly poor housing, attracting abuse from some ignorant quarters and having a barely decent wage. Whatever we think of Armed Force or the political aspects of decisions that affect them, those people deserve better, they deserve our protection and our support, they deserve better practical help and remuneration, and better PR so that idiots don't take out their anger on them. They serve with the understanding that we will look after them if need be - that's the deal, let's keep to it.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#12
Very well said Bern
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#13
Totally right Bern.
Howard, you clearly have not seen the programme or you would not speak of it like that.
I have met and spoken to many veterans and not all are as you speak. Alison and I went to Arnhem with a party of Market Garden vets not so long ago. There is no denying the horrors of war and some of the stories they tell are quite incredible but as well as horror they speak of the friendships and comradeship that war engenders. Not everybody has such an opportunity so a well produced documentary such as this one has a valuable place.