Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#1
Watching a TV programme as you do when unable to venture out on the ice,no gritting here I became very interested in what was being said re Harwich.
It seem the good people of Harwich good old Essex ,were very concerned with the expansion of the port so they won the day and a new port was built outside of the town.Why do I raise this issuie.I recall when Jubilee way was built and the Eastern docks were expanded.The Hoveort was relocated to Western Docks.
Why have Dover Harbour Board expanded in such a way that trucks now trundle along Townwall Street thus spliting the town in two.It all seems peacemeal to me
I'm sure Captain will provide answers
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#2
I used the port a couple of times in the Eighties, once for the Hook of Holland(Sealink) and once for Esbjerg(DFDS) and both times drove up to Parkestone Quay without touching the town. Had a look at the port's website and they only do the two daily crossings to the Hook nowadays. I notice they now take cruise liners which may account for the extra traffic.
Guest 1395- Registered: 5 Nov 2014
- Posts: 463
#3
Harwich doesn't have quite the physical constraints that Dover has.
Lew Finnis
PatrickS
- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
#4
Agree most heartedly Sue.
I worked at both Harwich and Parkeston Quay sometime last century when it did have just one road in and out of town. They have since had the foresight to build a link road into Parkestone that avoids both Dovercourt and Harwich town centres all together. Admittedly the volume of traffic there is very much lower.
However, with the same degree of foresight DHB might have undertaken a similar project and got the A2 dualled all the way and an improved link to the Port by slipping off Jubilee Way directly into the Docks (Ramsgate managed it) and by getting the M20/A20 route to link north of the Town with an upgraded A2. This would have avoided the necessity of splitting our historic town into two and done away with the blight that is now DHB express routeway (otherwise known as 'Snarlgate' and 'Dockwall' streets).
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#5
Thank you Patrick for providing more insight to my post.I sat on DDC for Twenty Seven years and some of the decisions and the slowness of getting things moving was very frustrating.Our MP now has another idea re the removal centre.Why oh why don't they do one thing at a time and get it right.There was all that business re people's port,all I see is we have two community directors.Not a Labour supporter but Gwynn Prosser did work on the boats before he became a MP..The dualling of the A2 would hopefully relieve the Snargate / Townwall street Problems
Some senior Councillors work very hard but every so often along comes someone with another idea which never works.
Off subject but Buckland Health facility should never have gone back to Coombe Valley.Too much interfence and what we have has not turned out as expected.I knew it was never going to be. Hospital but to locate it there with the road constraints ridiculous
Button
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 22 Jul 2016
- Posts: 3,109
#6
I feel sure that DHB would love to see the A2 dualled and that the main reason why it hasn't been so to date is that, with the advent of the Channel Fixed Link, the DfT saw and sees the M20/A20 as the strategic route.
(Not my real name.)
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#7
Back in the mists of time the DTC/SDC preferred upgrade route to Dover and the Western docks was to connect the A/M20 to the A2 via Alkham Valley and dual the A2 into the docks; sadly DHB's preferred route was via Townwall Street as this was the shortest and quickest route - for whatever reason they, not the people got what they wanted.
They really do not care whether the A2 is dualled or not, if they did it would already have happened.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#8
Sadly the hospital is where is is because certain now sainted individuals convinced themselves and the relevant authorities that the preferred town centre site was a major flood risk which ruled it out. thankfully the NHS did not wish to build it where those individual wanted, namely Whitfield.
Oh and these smae people are the ones who convinced DDC to object to the building of McArthur Glen Outlet centre in Dover...
Jan Higgins likes this
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Captain Haddock
- Location: Marlinspike Hall
- Registered: 8 Oct 2012
- Posts: 8,397
#9
Lest we forget! (from the archives)
'The De Bradelei was of course being set up by DHB just at the same time as DDC were turning down an application to build the incredibly sucessful McArthurGlen Design Outlet at Whitfield which would have been in direct competition with it (Home to 82 international brands at up to 60% less, this retail business is aiming high; their aim is to not only delight the local community with world-class designer goods, but also visitors from London and near Europe - as their publicity puts it). This would have brought hundreds of jobs and hundreds of thousands of visitors to the Dover area.
Instead McArthurGlen went to Ashford.
Yet another example of the lame-brain butchers, bakers and candlestick makers (and remember, Dover's idea of a successful businessman is someone who hasn't quite gone bankrupt recently) who make up our elected members, showed their complete ignorance in understanding what is good for the district, or indeed how 'retail' is changing.
Not that it has anything to do with the above but the Chief Executive of Dover District Council at the time was John Moir who left shortly afterwards to take up a post as a member of Dover Harbour Board. '
Guest 1849 and Ross Miller like this
"The world is still a weird place, despite my efforts to make clear and perfect sense of it".
Dr. Hunter S Thompson
PatrickS- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
#10
Back on topic.
It was quite a simple idea really:
Route all port bound traffic for Eastern Docks via an upgraded A2.
Link the new St James development to the seafront with access across a much less busy Townwall Street via Wellesley Road.
Upgrade existing access routes (underpass and crossing at Woolcomber Street).
and hey presto!
full integration between town and seafront to the benefit of all who live and work in the District.
Oh! - and to the delight of all those lovely visitors that would wish to spend time and money in this great historic town.
Obviously too simple.
Jan Higgins likes this
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#11
Captain is correct ,DHB managed to get their application in whilst the Mc Arthur Glenn was being delayed by committes at Whitfield .captain you were not a member at the time but I recall the undercurrents
I fought over and over to get out it through but was not supported by my own group . I was Liberal member at that time.It was passed at Planning but it went to Full Council and the original decision overturned.I have a good memory.Politics can be nasty
howard mcsweeney1 likes this
Guest 687- Registered: 2 Jun 2009
- Posts: 513
#12
The road signage for Dover from out of Kent is via the A20, the reason being is that Highways Agency wanted the A2 to be kept clear so that the Thameside development would have premier use of it.
However more and more trucks are using the A2 because there are greater parking opportunities on it and the fact trucks can access the docks easier and quicker.
I once did a study(sad) to see how much quicker dualling the A2 would make my journey. In a car it would be 120 seconds but in a truck no different as it is trucks that determine the road speeds of all vehicles.
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
#13
If approaching Dover having crossed the Thames at Dartford, the mileage difference on an individual vehicle basis is relatively small between coming straight down the A2/M2 and continuing to the M20 and coming that way, at 4 miles less on the A2/M2. But multiply this across a year of LGV traffic that makes this journey and it quickly adds up. However, the mileage difference is not the only thing; from a local perspective, having more on a dualled A2/M2 and less on the M20/A20 coming to Dover would have a massive impact on seafront connectivity, air quality, quality of life and the attractiveness of Dover as a destination.
If coming to Dover from the West past Clacket Lane, the M20/A20 route is approx 2.5m shorter than transferring to the M2/A2 over the A249.
PatrickS likes this
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
#14
Neil I'm getting the information but for clarity why would it be worse for our sea font.If using the A 2 Surely you drive straight to the docks ,Currently the Lorries block Townwall Street constant traffic.Perhaps I'm missing a point .
Guest 1694- Registered: 24 Feb 2016
- Posts: 1,087
#15
Hi Sue, I was saying, by implication rather than explicitly, that the impact of moving more traffic to the A2/M2 would be good, not bad - less miles (if coming via Dartford) = good - surely, so in the same paragraph (guilt by association
) the impact for Dover also = good.
My second paragraph is merely a statement of fact that naturally leads to the conclusion that vehicles coming past Clacket Lane are unlikely to come any other way to Dover than via the M20/A20.
PatrickS- Location: Marine Parade, Dover
- Registered: 19 Sep 2015
- Posts: 448
#16
Neil,
The vision of an hgv free Dover is now just that, regretfully.
The reference to your second paragraph is of course correct. This is exactly why the A20 into Dover should have linked to the A2 inland of the town.
With the A2 as the primary route for hgv's into Dover there would have obviated the necessity in having a years disruption along Snargate and Townwall.
DHB could still have had their cargo facility at Western Docks (although I retain grave reservations about the extent of the reclamation and infill that would be needed) with the necessary road improvements and infrustructure requirement at that end of town.
The result, as you rightly point out, would have substantially improved all our quality of lives - less congestion and pollution, less 24 hour noise from hgv traffic, reduced construction costs and times and a more integrated town with its great and well used sea front.
Such is the stuff that dreams are (now) made of.
