Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/election-2010/7616685/Nick-Clegg-Britain-bears-cross-bigger-than-Germanys-Nazi-past.html
I wondered what people thought of this.
I must say I am warming to the guy. He sums up perfectly the jaundiced and ultimately self-damaging British attitude towards Germany.
Unregistered User
#2
That was written in 2002 Andrew, he may have different views now
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#3
I imagine he is having hard time with a number of his views, Martin
BTW I don't agree that Britain actually has a BIGGER cross to bear than German - and I think the headline is a distortion anyway for the benefit of Telegraph readers.
I meanwhile suspect that Churchill would be very disappointed with modern attitudes towards Germany and would want us to move on.
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#4
I understand the feelings about Germany, but feel they're blinkered and outdated. The example given in Clegg's article written in 2002 of the boy in the back of the coach shouting "We won the war" etc can quite easily be mirrored by bigotry in adults too, sadly, and not just by Brits.
From a very early age I lived on a RAF base on the German/Dutch border with my parents and we were subjected to much abuse from the German people who identifed Royal Air Force personnel with the thousand bomber raids that had annihilated many German cities during 1943, 1944 and 1945 - especially Koln (Cologne) which was only a short distance from our base. Who's to say that their feelings were wrong? In exactly the same way, an elderly lady who lives in the neighbouring village to us is still extremely bitter towards Germans in general for one fighter plane strafing Dover seafront during the war - and her son now lives and works in Kiel, itself a victim of Sir Arthur Harris' policy of total destruction of German cities.
The truth is that anti-German feelings hold no place in modern day Britain. On the few occasions that I have been back to Germany since we left, I have encountered none of the anti-British sentiment I remember so clearly from the 1960s - quite the opposite, in fact; the Germans I have met are curious about why Britain is so reticent in embracing an all-conquering EU and cannot understand why it is looked upon with such suspicion here.
I have recommended this book to others before, but I would recommend a wonderful non-fiction book called Bomber Boys by Patrick Bishop to anyone; it gives a superb insight into the fears and lives of the RAF Bomber Command aircrew who carried out the thousand bomber raids on Germany in World War II. It is an exceptionally moving book, one that will drive home the futility of war and perhaps reinforce the belief that time is well past to forgive the atrocities of war of 60-odd years ago and move on. If, like me, you hold reservations about full membership of the EU, that need not mean looking upon Germany and her countrymen as the anti-Christ. It really is time to put all that in the history books.
As for Churchill, Andrew, it may also be time to take off the rose tinted spectacles with regard to England's greatest wartime statesman. In World War I he fully believed that an attack on the Dardanelles would shorten the war by destroying one of Germany's allies (Turkey) and thus condemned thousands of ANZACS to a futile and bloody death. Churchill was vilified for that and paid the price with his job, not to return until WWII. It's just an example to illustrate that not everything Churchill said or did was beyond question - his beliefs on Europe remain, to some of us at least, nothing more than ideals.
True friends stab you in the front.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
#5
I too echo Andy's comments, also coming from a service family, we lived in close proximity to army barracks during the 50's & 60's ie next door. It's time to file away these negative thoughts which no longer have any place with any forward thinking European country. As my late father said to me when I was in my teens that it was a long time ago and we should archive all our anti-German feelings to the bin.
He fought for his country and lost a lot of close friends, as a family we lost quite a few family members including my maternal Grandmother, it was a long time ago, our historical enemies are the french, we've got to draw a line somewhere.
Patrick Bishops book 'Bomber Boys' is a real eye-opener and should be read by all who still have bitter feelings for Germany. Many of my German friends and acquaintances are totally puzzled by this archaic viewpoint held by many in this country including a high majority who were not affected by WW1 or WW11 in any way.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
#6
I was in Germany 2 years ago,in the old East Germany 100kms North of Berlin,then on the German/Austrian border and then in the Rhine Valley area.I found as I have always found that the Germans were always friendly and kind.The only difference was in the old East German bit thier second language was Russian and not German.Berlin is one of the best cities I have visited sadly it was only I day,and my favourite place in the whole world apart from here of course is the Austrian / German borders,such beauty.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#7
i have never encountered any anti german feeling in the last 20 years or more.
always a great rivalry over football between our two countries, they usually beat us at our national sport, we beat them at theirs.
didn't mean that of course.
would feel better about them if they had not bombed our chippie though!!!
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#8
I would still like to see old German war criminal`s shot on the spot, if proved beyond a shadow of doubt of attrocities. I don`t see why we should be softies just because a few years have past. The only one`s who are able to forgive them aren`t here, and it`s not for us to answer for them. I have nothing against the Germans personally. What I`ve said goes for the japs as well.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#9
not too worried about the war criminals colin, i tend to look at the bigger picture.
they seem to have a decent side to put out in the world cup.
a cynic might say that they are unfair, we play in football boots, they play in jackboots.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
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#10
and tiger tanks with big gus on them.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#11
Actually Howard, a few world cups ago, it was always West Germany I wanted to win when we were out of it, (and we always were). The days of Beckenbauer and Muller.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#12
more than a few world cups colin.
that pair were prominent in the 1974 tournament.
i seem to remember them putting the dutch to the sword, not for the first time either.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#13
Are you being politically correct Howard by saying sword rather than bayonet?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
#14
QED
Guest 693- Registered: 12 Nov 2009
- Posts: 1,266
#15
Indeed so, Andrew.
True friends stab you in the front.