Guest 675- Registered: 30 Jun 2008
- Posts: 1,610
#1
Fresh in from the Planning Portal, and of possible interest to some of the residents of a certain well overlong thread here.
2 August 2012
DCMS consults on reform of listing regime
The Department for Culture, Media and Sport has started consulting on options for changing the system of listed building consents (LBCs) in line with its commitment to take forward the recommendations of the Penfold review of non-planning consents.
The aim of these changes is to simplify the LBC system by reducing the circumstances in which LBC is required and the level of information applicants are required to submit.
The consultation document sets out four options for change:
A system of prior notification
A system of local and national class consents
A 'certificate of lawful works to Listed Buildings'
The replacement of local authority conservation officer recommendations for LBC by those made by accredited agents.
Under the system of prior notification a local planning authority which received a notification could request a full LBC application or allow the specified time period to lapse, at which time LBC would be deemed to be granted.
The second proposal is a system of local and national class consents which would apply to defined works to defined heritage assets and consents would be issued unilaterally by a local authority. For defined classes or classes of works crossing local authority boundaries, the Secretary of State, advised by English Heritage, would also be able to grant class consent.
This option would set aside the need for LBC for a defined class or classes of works affecting a defined area or group of heritage assets.
The third option, a 'certificate of lawful works to Listed Buildings', would apply to proposed works to a listed building which do not have an impact on special interest, or to existing works carried out on the understanding that no LBC was required, with the local planning authority confirming that this was the case.
The fourth proposal is to replace local authority conservation officer recommendations for LBC by those made by accredited agents, if LBC applicants wish to do so. This option reflects the Government's preference to expand the range of expertise involved in decision-making on LBC cases.
The consultation also seeks views on new or improved measures to address building neglect, particularly to buildings which have been on the Heritage at Risk Register for a long time.
Local authorities often find enforcement mechanisms problematic to exercise, and the Government would like to find new measures to tackle this.
Read the consultation on the DCMS website
Roger Milne
Politics, it seems to me, for years, or all too long, has been concerned with right or left instead of right or wrong.
Richard Armour
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#2
Part of the problem with Listed Buildings and Conservation areas, is that they have to be refurbished to the original standards and can be prohivitively expensive to do and because iof that, some buildings get left in a run-down state as we witness in Dover.
Roger
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#3
They are usually cheaper to buy when in a poor condition because of the very problems Roger has listed, so they need the right owner in the first place.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 739- Registered: 16 Jan 2012
- Posts: 85
#4
I live in a listed property and it's been a proper pain in the derierre. I managed to get it very reasonably due to the neglect of the previous owner. I wanted from the outset to restore it to it's original glory or as near as I could. Unfortunately I have been unable to because it was listed in the 1980s. I want a new front door and the house really would benefit from sympathetic double glazing because it gets very draughty. I was told that I couldn't do either because it is a listed property. So if I replace the door it has to be exactly the same as the one in place now which is ugly. My bugbear is that because of when the street was listed there were already houses with double glazing. Every house is different! I want the double glazing that looks like sash wndows not the nasty cheap stuff. Surely it will enhance the area? Obviously if I lived in a cottage in the country that would be different but we live in the town. Argh! Rant over. *goes for a nice lie down with a cup of tea*
I think we are all guinea pigs in the middle of an experiment for which they have forgotten to set up a control group!
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
#5
I can understand your rant as we have lived in listed buildings in the past if a property has a completely out of place extension you can not even get rid of that without a fight.
To be honest I would buy a new front door that would look right and keep the old one to put back in case anybody complained, not legal I know but when the law is an ass.......................
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#6
Jen = I too live in a Grade II listed property but have, so far had no real issues (other than spending a fortune). I was lucky in that Mr Alexander, the DDC Conservation Officer, was incredibly sympathetic to and supportive of my proposed improvements,
Regarding double glazing - the options are either secondary double glazing (problematic and often ugly), replacement double glazed timber sashes (expensive and heavy) or getting nylon brush draught and sound insulation added to the existing sashes (cost effective and roughly 80% of the effectiveness of double glazing).
For the latter try
http://www.victoriansash.co.uk/ 01304 617129, or
http://www.box-sash-windows.co.uk/ or
http://www.london-boxsashwindows.co.uk/"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 739- Registered: 16 Jan 2012
- Posts: 85
#7
Thanks for that Ross. I'll have a look at the sites and see they're like. We've got secondary glazing because the previous owner complained about the noise when the large roundabout was built at the end of York Street and Folkestone Road. But it's ugly and old now. I'd rather invest in something to make the house look nicer.
It's not like I want to paint the house pink with green spots or something horrible like that. Hmmm, pebble dashing to hide the cracks?
The owner in the 1960's was a total bodge-it-and-run bloke by all accounts and totally ruined the place. I just want to put it back to being a nicer house. When Reg lived next door he used to regale me with tales of this bloke and his botched attempts to "modernise" the house. I could go on for hours about the "interesting" pipework in the basement and how half my internal walls are made of hardboard. He was obviously very creative but also very rubbish
I think we are all guinea pigs in the middle of an experiment for which they have forgotten to set up a control group!
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#8
Ah yes - the previous owners of mine seem to have had every cowboy electrician and plumber through the place (we removed two whole rubble sacks of junction boxes) plus dont get me started on the cement tiles they put on the roof
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#9
the worst period was the 70's when everyone thought they were a builder. it was expected to get a black and decker workmate, assorted drills and tools and save a fortune by not employing electricians, plumbers, window fitters and builders.
the legacy was tragic with unnecessary deaths caused by faulty wiring, windows that would open in an emergency etc.
there were more cowboy builders around then but now we have trade associations with registered companies, councils that recommend people with a proven track record and
if that is not enough ask friends and family who done a good job for them.
Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,321
#10
I am aware of a similar problem to JenF's.
I live on the end of a row of houses that are Grade 2 and were also listed in the 80's. My neighbour has the most awful mock Georgian diamond pattern plastic windows. On the other side of him were (like mine) original wooden Victorian sash windows. About five years ago he replaced them with aluminium sashes. To the eye they were no different to wooden ones. However, "Planning" objected and he had to replace them with hardwood. Total cost about £6k.
The awful plastic windows remain, protected! Bloody nonsense.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#11
It is as I suspect they are not what is clearly stated on the listing document - but to it is up to local conservation officers and planning officers to use their common sense and discretion
From EH -
How will listing affect me?
Listing is not a preservation order, preventing change. Listing is an identification stage where buildings are marked and celebrated as having exceptional architectural or historic special interest, before any planning stage which may decide a building's future.
Listing does not freeze a building in time, it simply means that listed building consent must be applied for in order to make any changes to that building which might affect its special interest. Listed buildings can be altered, extended and sometimes even demolished within government planning guidance. The local authority uses listed building consent to make decisions that balance the site's historic significance against other issues such as its function, condition or viability. Find out more from our Planning Advice page.
If you have a listed building you can check the exact details of the listing document via
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/professional/protection/process/national-heritage-list-for-england/"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
