The post you are reporting:
A lot has been put on here regarding the miners dispute which out of respect of the ladies funeral I declined to comment at that time.
We do now move on but some observations should be addressed or they look like they are correct.
Without doubt no one on here that posted(from either side) were saying the unions needed looking at on how they operate.
The Conservative govt at the time decided it was going to go into battle with the N.U.M. at the time,(but later to be found that they also ship on there supporting miners of the conservative govt, by shutting there pits to!!!!)
A lot was at stake for the Conservative govt, they wanted to show that by smashing the N.U.M everyone would fall into line.
Of course this would never be the case, as London underground today shows.
At the time of the disputes Scargill made comments that were far reaching
he was told he was wrong when he spoke about the number of pits the govt was to close, and the press and the govt went out of there way to discredit him in saying he was wrong.
He was on that issue correct, they closed even more than even he said they would.
He stated the govt/police were working together to smash all trade unions/people
again he was right from what we see coming out of the South yorkshire police findings on the hilsborough disaster
But there were issues where maybe he didn't quite get there,
with stockpiles of coal the govt over time wasn't going tom lose this dispute, they put everything into defeating the mining communities.
Whilst we would all condemn the extremists from both sides(well i do) and that the unions maybe needed looking at how they operate, the govt chose a route of confrontation, maybe not the best route, if we are saying we have feelings for the future of mining communities, and the communty as a whole.
When faced with talks as a union that were going no where and people like mc gregor coming over with an agenda to smash the union with govt backing, it became clear they were on collission course.
If you are faced in reality that pits were to close, the union smashed, communities ripped apart, sometimes this can make you feel you need to do something and so we entered the dispute.
Remember that a lot of talking had gone on prior to all this without agreement.
For the dispute to be allowed to go on so long showed the determination from both sides, but to watch mining communities come together many even were conservative supporters(up until then) was interesting.
The police and there role at times is questionable which wasnt ever addressesed.
Moving on to unions in general
I have always fought my own union the RMT never to get into an all out strike with no room for manouver
And although the conservative govt went to far in trying to smash unions there was a need to address union ballots
my union at the time addresses this, and all ballots no longer by show of hands as in the past and done by ballot
some within the union resisted this, but i found it a better way, the bigger problem was when the employers used the legislation whilst still in discussion with the union to take them to court through the union members being balloted
which although nowt to do with the employer was a way of stopping a dispute, but not one that helped with relationships between the two.
Iv been a life long union member of Unison, n.u.r(a s it was) then RMT, USDAW, and held many positions, and often on the national negotiating committee
The unions(like the employer) have a role to play, and there needs to be an even playing field if we want this to work,
Barry's view on restrictive practices, realy means lower pay, poor working conditions, cutting corners.
We are heading slowly back that way, but should resist it.
There are many responsible unions out there who continue to support there members many working with the employers.
Im probably seen as a moderniser within the union movement, I dont agree with the 70's and how unions got out of control, but nor do i agree with the way unions/communities were smashed and attempts to silence unions, that is also wrong.
The debate will go on, and we will see extremists from both sides9if we recognise there are 2 sides)
The next one will be london underground where we see militant union(RMT) taking on Boris and the Govt
more moves towards driverless trains, and the RMT resisting and heading towards a dispute
Already Boris(if hes still there) is set to take on the RMT and Bob Crow the General Secretary ready to take on the govt/Boris
There will be no winners, but many losers.
If we honestly believe in employers/unions working in harmony for the best interest of the company/employee's
then we need to even up the playing field, and get both parties working together.
So barryw, the situation isn't exhausted these are just a few observations