Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#1
There's an interesting story in this weeks Mercury page 25 by Graham Tutthill, and its all about the concerns Liberal Democrat councillor Clive Meredith has about the thousands and thousands of new homes scheduled for the district. Up to 14,000 are scheduled. The concern is where are the jobs to go with them. Clive was being interviewed as a new Consultation process on the issue is due.
"Housing provision should be employment led" says Clive
We suffer from a chronic shortage of quality jobs and without these jobs how are all these mortgages to be sustained...how is a good quality of life to be sustained. Are we just scheduling in dole queues.
The other concern too is the obvious one of mass concrete-isation of the area.
"any more than 6,000 homes will involve building on green land" says Clive
I am personally pleased to hear someone else saying something that Ive been banging on about before as it has always struck me as a scenario for nightmare. I would personally hate to see thousands of homes as its just fantasy planning with the awful prospect that the character of the area will be destroyed forever.
The picture shows Clive Meredith with Jan Tranter at the recent tented ASDA event in Pencester.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#2
There is a catch 22 situation. Some people think that this means the housing will be built immediately leaving houses unsold and no jobs for those who buy. It does not work that way.
Dont forget all we are talking about here is planning allocation of land to be developed over, what a 30 year period. Whether to build and how fast will depend on how developers see the housing market here and whether they think the houses will sell. Clearly the jobs market will influence that.
Employers will not come to an area if they cannot recruit enough employees, so if we did not allocate land in planning terms to housing it could stifle development and discourage more employment.
Likewise, remember - people are not these days limited to employment near where they live. The fast rail link, for instance, will open up Dover to commuters who work in London. While we want jobs in Dover we should not ignore the advantage of the relatively high paid jobs these would have and the potential spend in this area resulting.
To be honest, Clive Meredith is talking utter tosh. Fair enough really, as a Whitfield Councillor he can be excused because he is representing the concenrs of his constituents, who dont want the development in Whitfield for NIMBY reasons.
This housing is needed for Dover's regeneration and without it the area will decline further.
Dave
#3
I agree wholeheartedly with Barry W, housing is needed for Dover,s regeneration and Whitfield is an excellent choice for development. It is after all no longer a village but an urban district of Dover. The areas in which the proposed development is planned are not areas of outstanding natural beauty, whereas true villages such as St.Margarets are.
I should like to correct you on one minor point, I am a resident of Whitfield and Clive Meredith does not represent my views in any way.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#4
i go with the extra houses and flats, the residents will spend some money in dover thus creating jobs.
we are in a position of a population getting smaller, with those still here of retirement age or at school.
dave makes a good point about whitfield, it is not a village to most people, just an extension of the town.
i always think of a village of being fairly circular with a church near the centre and a couple of old world pubs
that people drive out to on a sunday for lunch.
Dave
#5
Taking it one stevancingp further Howard, any new development in Whitfield should be affordable allowing young people to get on the first rung of bthe housing ladder. The future of Dover lies in its youth, not in people of my advancing years, who very often get set in their ways and forget that they were young once. Build the houses, building them will create much needed jobs for the area and then maybe will become a more prosperous, vibrant place to live.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#6
I cant see the commuter thing working chaps. When I first moved here I tried it all the way from London every day. It was a complete bummer and didnt work out. Im talking from experience here. I ended up staying in a hotel in London half the week.
You leave Charing Cross after 5.30pm in a train packed to the rafters. You are still on the same train 2 hours later only now its totally empty, rattling and freezing, and you sit there enjoying the miserable experience as only a commuter can...the only lonely pea in an oversized pod. By the time I got to Dover I would be the only one in the blasted train...so nobody at all commuted to London.
Okay maybe these days with high speed rail links it might be possible but
Time + Cost = I dont thinkso.
So Im sceptical.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#7
some good points raised here.
paul
the journey at present is not on, as you say.
that will change at the end of next year with the one hour approx transit.
many londoners cannot afford the prices there, and like you and me, would love to live by the sea.
dave
you are right in making the point about affordable housing for the young, not sure how it is done in practice though.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#8
I do think that all new builds must use up the brown-field sites first.
Depending on the cost of train fares post high-speed trains and 2009, people who have a good job in London and live in the Greater London area have probably got a three bed-semi which will be worth around £450,000 or probably more, so they could quite easily move to Dover, buy a bigger house, have no mortgage and still have enough money left over for a place in France or Spain or some where - great if you can do it.
As someone said, their money will be spent here, so there's lots to do to make new people want to live here - we do have so much already, but lots to do.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#9
clearly the brown field sites must be used up first roger.
yes the fares will be higher on the high speed link, but as you say, they will have plenty of spare dosh once they have
flogged their london home.
a lot of londoners are trying to escape, and this is a great bolt hole.
Dave
#10
There are two things which annoy me, Dover has so much already, where? If you are talking about the Castle I certainly don't visit that every day, neither do I walk along the seafront every day. Dover has been in steady decline for almost 30 years and having almost hit the bottom of the bucket everybody is rushing about trying to do something about it.
We don't need an estate full of expensive houses, we need low cost housing that people can afford. After all they spend money as well and probably overall they will spend more.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#11
I disagree that we only need low-cost housing - if anyone needs low-cost housing/flats bedsits, we have one or two here along the Folkestone Road.
There is a need for a mix of housing - larger more expensive ones for executive types if we want to attract good quality, qualified people and low-cost/affordable housing for those just starting out on the housing ladder, or where they simply don't earn enough.
If we only build low-cost/affordable housing, that's the only kind of people we'll get, if we want higher qualified, higher earners - more disposable income to spend here, then we build accordingly.
We need to try to help raise people up, not bring every one down to the lowest level.
Roger
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#12
Roger is totally right about the need for a mix of housing.
At the end of the day the market will decide on the mix.
If all we had were small modern chicken hutches, as soon as people get a bit more money in their pockets they will be off taking that money elsewhere. If you want better shopping and better leisure in Dover we must improve the demographic mix and that means we need more people with money in their pockets, disposable income. Starter homes are needed and must and will be part of the mix, I am certain.
Also if we want, as we need, to attract business into the Dover area, bringing jobs, then we will need the executive housing for their senior employees. There would be no more certain way to turn Dover into a low wage ghetto, worse than it is now, to just build 'low cost' starter homes.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
#13
There are a hell of a lot of starter homes being built on the Priory Fields site on Tower St near Astor and Boys Grammar School.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Dave
#14
I was not suggesting for one moment that all new devlopment should be low-cost housing, of course we need a mix but some of the letters gave me the impression, and it would appear wrongly, that all some people wanted was executive houses. By the way could somebody tell me what agood quality person is as I wish to work out what category I fall in. Remarks such as that are offensive as I would have thought that anybody that works and contributes to our society is a wothwhile person, entitled to our respecct.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#15
Oh come on Dave! Chill out a bit mate, Roger didn't mean that as an insult to anyone, he's not like that. All he meant was that people with a high income and money to spend will want better housing than those of us who are maybe in the lower wage sector and can't afford to spend quite as much on a house, including first time buyers who are just starting out as home owners. Those with a high income will buy bigger houses in more select areas and having done so will then spend money locally which will improve trade in the town.
There will always be areas where houses are more expensive because that is reality, doesn't mean the people in them are better people, just that they are better off financially. I don't suppose there's anyone reading this forum that wouldn't buy a bigger and better house if they won the lottery! I know I would
You know it makes sense!
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
#16
Well said Jacqui - and thank you.
Roger
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#17
dave makes some good points here, nice to see a new poster giving thought out opinions,
dover will always have a large pool of people that service the port, ferry and cruise industry doing fairly low skilled jobs.
it follows that some very hard working familes are scraping by on the minimum wage and only renting.
unless there is some chance of them getting on the private housing ladder, what is the point of them struggling on.
eventually they will realise that they will be better off of on benefits.
Guest 643- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,321
#18
Howard,
You say only renting - what's wrong with that? My parents lived all their lives in a council house because my dad was on a low wage, but they were happy and we as kids were brought up well clean and happy. OK it's nice to own your own home but it's not the end of the world if you always rent. In actual fact it's probably cheaper to rent because if anything goes wrong with the property it's down to your landlord/council to rectify it, if you own your home it's down to you. Not being on benefits gives you a reason to get up in the morning as well as a feel good feeling and one of belonging. Personally I love the feeling of being part of a team as much as I enjoy my job.
I agree about Dave though - nice to have a new voice with an opinion
There's always a little truth behind every "Just kidding", a little emotion behind every "I don't care" and a little pain behind every "I'm ok".
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#19
i know what you are saying jacqui, i was brought up the same, but people nowadays need to know that they have a stake in society.
i see a lot of young couple with children in my area, both working, then coming home and spending all their spare time cooking, cleaning, washing and ironing, no leisure time.
they must look around at some of their neighbours who have the same without getting out of bed in the morning.
