Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
24 February 2009
12:5116004#1
Just in case anyone had missed DDC's "blaze" of publicity, the LDF Process has already entered its final stage and closes on 25 March.
The Development Plan Documents (DPD) are published in order for representations to be made prior to submission to the Government.
The Planning and Compulsory Purchase Act 2004 states that the purpose of the examination is to consider whether the DPD complies with the legal requirements and is 'sound'.
These documents are complex and the format of all responses require knowledge of the Government and Planning Inspectorate guidance on 'Legal Compliance' and tests of 'Soundness' as well as extensive research of the Development Plan Documents and DDC's Evidence Base. 'Legal Compliance' relates to way in which Dover District Council has prepared the published DPD. 'Soundness' relates to the actual content of the DPD and whether the DPD is justified, effective and consistent with national policy.
I understand that over 11,000 responses were received last year in the LDF first stage - overwhelmingly opposed to large scale development at Whitfield and backing Option 1, ie the lowest number of homes.
I understand the council's response was to increase still higher the number of houses planned.
In the light of these statements, what notice has DDC taken of public opinion as expressed in the LDF? Would anyone from the council care to comment?
24 February 2009
14:1416006#2
30000 said they wanted a Hospital in Dover!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
24 February 2009
18:5116012#3
i am not sure of the logic of that last one.
no-one, if asked the question, would say no.
it is like asking people if they would prefer to be paid a higher salary.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
24 February 2009
20:3716028#4
I agree Howard, now if it had been 30000 people putting pen to paper and in their own words giving reasons why a hospital was neceesary in Dover then the outcome might have been different.
Petitions very seldom have any effect mainly for the very reasons you have stated.
In short there is a vast difference between a simple yes/no answer and huge numbers of signed letters of protest.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
24 February 2009
23:0516047#5
That is a very true statement Dave. Individual letter have massively more impact than a petition, I would say that less than 3,000 individual letters would get more notice than 30,000 mere signatures. The problem is getting them.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
24 February 2009
23:0916050#6
i am amazed that we have 30,000 signatories here full stop.
even including babies, toddlers, a few cats and dogs putting paw marks.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
24 February 2009
23:1516052#7
A few years ago Barry I did it and if I remember correctly you were a young councillor that supported our little group at the committee meeting. Remember? I have to say you were bloody good.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
24 February 2009
23:3016057#8
By the way it wasn't quite 30000 but it was over 300.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
25 February 2009
08:5916070#9
Not being directly involved with the LDF, I would add that the process and conclusions have all gone through the Council Chambers and been voted on, so all Councillors have had a say and a vote.
The recommendations are based on research, but (most of) the comments and concerns have come from the heart.
For Dover to succeed in any measure, we needed growth point status and that's why the top number of house building was preferred, without it we could never have got the high level of regeneration projects we have now managed to obtain.
We all want the best for Dover - don't we ? better shops, more visistors, better facilities for residents, all round improvements ? this really is the only way to get it.
Roger
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
25 February 2009
09:1016072#10
Roger
I do fully understand why you want tol fully support yors friends at whitfield.
Building more and more houses is not the answer you only have to look at the ward you represent to see that.
You also need the infrStructure as well which is sadly missing.
Hope a rethink on thsat part.
Just because people disagree doesn t mean yor right, or that people dont want a better Dover.
Lots of posters have looked/commented on a better Dover(hopefully)
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
25 February 2009
11:3516091#11
I am one of those thats in favour of a 'hospital' in Dover town rather than a greenfield site in Whitfield.
As the town centre falls apart on a daily basis the towns resources are stretched further and further apart.If I had my way I would resite the council offices in the town perhaps incorporating it in the DTIZ 'never to be built' project.
Bring the office workers back to town to use the cafes the coffee shops and sandwich bars for lunch.Allowing them to shop, wander and more importantly spend money in and around town it might just might encourage more 'leading' stores to reinvest in the town centre if the footfall were to increase.
The same with the hospital, hopefully the staff, visitors and others will be able to shop in Dover and use the local facilities.
Forget about the flooding its a red herring. British ingenuity helped put a man on the moon so stopping a bit of flooding should not pose a threat if a real effort is made.It will be easy for residents in out of town villages to access the hospital as all roads but more importantly all bus routes lead to Dover.Think of an 80year who would have to catch a bus to Dover before connecting on another bus to Whitfield.No I am sorry but Dover Town centre was the best option and do not be fooled by those who say that at Whitfield we could have had a 'proper' hospital that was never an option.
As the decline continues with B&Q exiting stage right to Whitfield and Morrisons withdrawal from Dover followed by the sheer awe inspiring non commital of ASDA to start any type of build I am afraid we must seize every opportunity to rejuvenate our town before its too late.
Of course I am forgetting our world renown street market on a Saturday...the solitary fruit and veg stall...
Which leads me to the giant tv screen.Lets hope its approved after numerous and costly committee meetings.If its location is causing a problem then move it to Pencester Gdns where surely it can't be any louder than the music and screams that echo around town during the funfairs visit.
I sometimes think that a lot of people were far happier when Dover was being shelled by the Nazis at least then they had something concrete to moan about. Since then they have been in search of something more tangible to whinge on about but until that day arrives most Dovorians are more than happy to whinge about anything and everything the town does to raise its profile and improve living standards.
I suppose reading back on this missive that includes me...thank God for Roger W.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
25 February 2009
12:0416098#12
I want to see Dover regenerated more than anyone and that is one of the reason why I am so opposed to Whitfield New Town on the scale that is being talked about.
Why is it not possible to disagree with Whitfield New Town without being misrepresented as "negative"?
What the computerised consultants who presumably produced the models don't appreciate is how people in Whitfield already have their backs to Dover and will only spend a small proportion of their money in the town. The money will mainly go to Westwood Cross, Canterbury, even Folkestone.
And meanwhile life continues to be sucked out of the town. Why does no-one seem to appreciate this? It will take 10-15 minutes to get to the Canterbury Park and Ride from the western side of Whitfield, pretty much the same time as it takes to get into Dover. How naive, how mediocre, how plodding and wasteful and unimaginative these plans all are.
The template for all this development is the Greenfields estate at Whitfield in the late 70s. A great deal of the people there were Dovorians fleeing to the hills in the way that people in East London move out to Essex.
Same thing will happen again and Dover will become a buy-to-let ghetto populated by a transient population on the minimum wage.
I really do fear for the town centre if these proposals get the go ahead. I fear that it will in time become another Tiger Bay or Toxteth - a rough as hell dockside wasteland, a real no-go zone.
I mean, what is the council thinking of, moving the grammar schools AND the leisure centre out of Dover when it is supposed to be regeneratng the town? How inconsistent is that?
And why does it bother with LDF consultations if it is simply going to ignore them? Don't the people in Whitfield count for anything?
How about about more out-of-the-box thinking - an urban village on the SKC site using the river as a focal point, residential developments in the western docks area, higher densities in the town, more evenly distributed developments around the villages...
I believe the whole scheme has not been adequately thought through and that whole swatches of attractive countryside are to be ruined for the sake of giant, faceless, sprawling, alienating estates which will want as little to do with Dover as possible.
By the way Marek, good call on the council offices. Let them set us an example by moving back into Dover so we can use the site for housing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 February 2009
18:5116140#13
i think that post from marek was one of the best i have read here.
the general hospital was never really on the cards, the ddc offices, if in dover town, would stem the decline in shop spend and the screen is yet another free bonus.(i have no preference whether it is in pencester or market square.)
andrew
i think the population density is high enough already in dover town, cannot see any development in the western dock area, the harbour board will, no doubt, have their own plans.
you may be right about the new residents of the "new town" looking towards canterbury for their spending.
however, once big companies see a rise in population in our catchment area, then the investment will come for new recreational and leisure activities.
that is what i hope anyway.
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
25 February 2009
20:3616155#14
I agree with Marek and Andrew,this Town has declined since the 2nd World War,but to allow mass building of Offices and Houses in Whitfield is also off the Mark,I have spoken to Andrew about this.If we look at Connaught Buckland Mill Western Docks and all the other areas that we could build on now,fill in the areas that have been empty for along time some as long ago as the 2nd W.W. fill the empty properties especially above the shops in the Town Centre.Then look at all the Brown Field sites in the area then we would probably be able to match the number that all the Goverment plans and LDF want.
As for the Hospital......Yes regeneration will follow the building of the Hospital in the Town it will also aid it,Flood plain,well about 50 % OF US live in the flood plain area,if you live near the Dour or the Seafront,and is it a problem.Marek is right it is a scare tactic,by those who want to see a Hospital build at Whitfield because we can get around that.
The reason why the Hospital site was chosen for the Town Centre was maximum access for the general population.The arguement for a all singing dancing Hospital has been long and hard,but we were never going to and never wii get a Hospital like we knew it.
The main reason for this is that East Kent has 2 large Hospitals when tha population numbers mean we should have 1.5 Hospitals in the Area,so the £20 million we have got would never have financed a Full Hospitals,plus the Local Doctors are the ones who said that they want all Hospital Beds in one or two Hospitals.They did not want them in Dover.Now the site chosen may not be the best site as it is too small and lacks parking,but the alternative was take it out of the Town or back at Buckland.The problem was Access as it was always a problem because of the railway bridge and traffic lights.
So why is there a campaign to have the Hospital at Whitfield,well it has the space but I believe it is because there is a Count Council election coming up and I bet at least one of the campaigners stands and uses that as the reason for standing.
Where would you want the Hospital if you lived in say Shepherdswell.Train to Dover walk to the bus station then Bus to Whitfield,or train to Dover then short walk.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 February 2009
20:4216157#15
which party will he stand for john?
its a good election ploy though, remember the GP from kidderminster that got elected to parliament on the strength of a hospital issue?
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
25 February 2009
21:1916168#16
Wait and see if I am right Howard,I am told the Tories but Roger tells me no,but we will wait and see.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Guest 660- Registered: 14 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,205
25 February 2009
21:2316169#17
Of course the really strange thing is the relocation of the Hospital has been agreed by the Council,but I see from a paper I had put in my door the other day,that Charlie Elphnick doesn't seem to have been briefed,which is strange because the Council leader Paul Watkins has given the re-sighting in the Town his blessing and so has the Council.
If you knew what I know,we would both be in trouble!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
25 February 2009
21:2916172#18
john,thats strange i thought the torys were joind up.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
25 February 2009
23:1916184#19
i had that through the door, just a wish list rather than a statement of policy.