Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2008
18:079861#1
Frank Field, Labour MP, has expressed his doubts about the Government's stimulus package in his refreshingly candid blog.
At least one Labour MP is willing to be honest, all due credit to him. He "doubts" the fiscal stimulus in the PBR will actually work.
He said he was left with a "flat feeling" after the Darling's statement.
Later he says "the intellectual debate is moving toward the Tories", he says because "they believe in change through civil society rather than the blunderbuss of legislation."
His comment about the emergency budget was interesting but the latter comment was even more so.
He is of course quite right. One reason I detest Labour is the way they believe that Government is right and Government should always legislate and take control. This centralising of power is damaging to society and Government rarely know best.
The core Conservative belief is in the individual, giving people as much freedom as possible to live their lives free from the interference from the State as much as possible. There are shades of this within the Conservatives, of course, from some on the left who are almost interchangable with the right wing of Labour, through to those, like me at the other end of the Conservative scale.
I wonder if Frank Field might, just might, be about to jump ship?
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
26 November 2008
18:149862#2
I would be very disappointed with Frank Field if he jumped ship as he has been a very valuable, if slightly maverick, Labour MP for a long time. Im not sure which constituency he represents but it is probably entirely in Labours heartland when you bear in mind Frank has been in 'The House' for such a long time. So how long would he last as a Tory in this red heartland. He has been working together with Lord Soames recently on assorted cross party projects so maybe some of the Tory blue has rubbed off.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2008
20:239872#3
For those who are interested here is a link to Frank Field's blog.
He has a lot more to say than I mentioned here.
http://www.frankfield.com/type2show.asp?ref=546&ID=165howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 November 2008
21:399874#4
barry
interesting to see that you believe in freedom of the individual, i listened to david do nothing and his friends at question time in the commons today, i reached the conclusion that the freedom to work and pay one's own way in the world was very low on his agenda.
he berated the government for their tax cutting but had no alternative ideas about safeguarding jobs.
Guest 670- Registered: 23 Apr 2008
- Posts: 573
26 November 2008
21:559876#5
It is a step in the right direction that they are least saying something, Howard but they're still full of hot air.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
26 November 2008
22:429878#6
Howard - It is not HM Opposition's job to provide answers in PMQ's, its the job of the PM to answer questions, but he never does...
If you bother to listen beyond Labour spin you will have heard a Conservative alternative based on sound money, but then you are not really interested in that!
They are increasing taxes, not cutting them. Any 'cuts' are shortlived, just 13 months of a tiny VAT reduction at a large cost. The taxes will have to be raised to pay back the 'stimulus' plus interest and those annouced so far are just the tip of the iceberg. The sad fact is that taxes have to rise because of Brown's age of irresponsibility. These cuts can only be minimised by big public spending cuts, it has to be done. No hope of Brown doing that to any significant degree.
Do you not realise the damage Brown is doing to small business, the lifeblood of the economy? He has produced a package he claims is designed to help but again these are just shortlived measures, the good from them being offset by the red-tape being imposed, not to mention deferred tax rises.
Next week I am going to have to write out a load of VAT refund cheques, worth an average 69 pence, because there is not enough time to arrange changes to standing orders before 1st December. Imagine the costs in both time and money in doing that. The bank charges are nearly as much as the cheques, add the postage, stationary and time.... Then another lot of admin again in a years time to increase the standing orders.......
The whole thing is plain nutty. I have spent today consulting to find a way around this but each idea I have had has been blocked by regulation.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 November 2008
23:019881#7
barry
trust you to get rattled when confronted with an alternative view.
labour spin indeed!!
i watched the broadcast live, and formed my own opinion on what i did not hear from the oppositon benches.
interesting that you think that anyone that does not hold an extreme right wing viewpoint is a labour apologist.
Sid Pollitt
26 November 2008
23:259882#8
The same thing happens to me Howard. I see that after Barack Obama is planning a fiscal stimulus to the US economy the European Union are to do something similar. Dont they know that there is another way, you know, stand back and wring your hands. It worked before in the 80s and early 90s.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
26 November 2008
23:569884#9
sid
someone else earlier related back to the depression when mr roosevelt spent the country back onto it's feet.
make no mistake, this is the nearest to a depression that the world has faced since.
when the blues created the last 2 recessions, we had comments made that left the people without hope.
i always remember mr heseltine saying that unemployment was a small price to pay, ok for him a multi millionaire.
all we seem to hear lately is about book balancing, nothing about young people with large mortgages and bills that had already moved into negative equity before the latest bombshell.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 November 2008
08:249888#10
Howard: ""all we seem to hear lately is about book balancing, nothing about young people with large mortgages and bills that had already moved into negative equity before the latest bombshell.""
Pity Labour did not think of that before:
1/ Changing the banking regulation to the crazy tripartied system.
2/ Discouraged saving and investing
3/ Keeping interest rates too low for too long encouraging increased private debt just to provide an illusion of growth
4/ Carried on borrowing like mad in the economic growth cycle when borrowing should have been paid back
5/ Hampered business with red tape and excessive taxes
6/ Sold off gold reserves at the bottom of the market
7/ Undermine and rob pension funds
8/ Claim to have re-invented economics by banning boom and bust
Because of this the UK economy is first into recession and is likely to be last out of it. Long term solutions based on sound money are needed not short term stimuli that will then be taken back, plus interest, just as the economy starts to pick up again.
Other countries are using stimuli and there is nothing wrong with that but they are choosing different ways to do it. Labour unfunded approach is the disaster we have here. We too need to stimulate the economy but this Government is doing it the wrong way.
By the way howard, far from rattled I am enjoying the desperation of Labour to defend their wrongdoings. The behaviour of Labour backbenchers and whips in the Commons yesterday, trying to drown out debate, was utterly disgusting and is a demonstation of just how weak the Government case is for its budget.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
27 November 2008
11:079897#11
The G10 or whatever the number may rise or fall to have decided to hold their next summit in London in April 2009.A show of confidence in Browns economic strategy ..perhaps?
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 November 2008
18:099910#12
Or to keep a closer eye on the bad boy perhaps, after all the OECD says we are in the worse position of all the G8.
Maybe though it is to say goodbye to Gordon as he is not likely to be in post for the next one.
I have been at a seminar today and was speaking to the former Chief Exec of a major bank over lunch. He retired over 10 years ago and is not responsible for the mess created in recent years incidentally.
He was telling me that back when the Bank of England was in charge of regating banks he had to go into a quarterly meeting with the bank. At that meeting, apparently they were right s*ds (direct quote), delving into all aspects of the bank operations, quizzing them closely, keeping an eye on all aspects of how the bank was being run. Gordon Brown's 1997 reforms of how the banks were regulated ended all that. Their regulation fell between three stools and no-one was really keeping a close enough eye on bank practises. He is horrified about how the banks have betrayed customers and how the new regulations did not properly supervise them.
I have been saying all along about this massive mistake of Brown's regulation changes so it was interesting to hear it from someone who knows about it from the inside.
Sid Pollitt
27 November 2008
18:379914#13
Yes this light touch, small government approach is so wrong. I'd like to hear from those who were victims of the YTS programme of the 1980s. You know no training, no H&S safeguards and then back on the dole so someone else can be used/ have their lives put at risk etc.
I am actually known for my predictions, it's my independent thinking that's valued I think. I predicted that Peter Hain would stand for either the leader or deputy leadership of the Labour Party months before it took place. I'm not predicting GB will be out of his post but you'll know I'm suggesting the same for George Osborne. I also predicted, for those interested, before the start of the season that Arsenal will not finish in the top four of the premiership and I said that Chelsea would slip up last night.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
27 November 2008
19:519918#14
I bow to your superior knowledge of football, my interest in that subject stopped back in the days of Bobby Charlton.
Light touch and minimum regulation is what I prefer, the emphasis on the minimum regulation. The important thing is the judgement in what that minimum regulation should be. Mrs Thatcher after all, much as she rightly distrusted the heavy hand of the State, judged that the way the banks were regulated was right.
Gordon Brown got his judgement wrong on the bank regulation, is he did over gold sales, taxation of pension schemes the 10p tax rate, etc etc etc.
As for YTS (where on earth did that get dragged up from!) is something I had personal experience of, as an employer, and I can recall three youngsters who were helped into work by that scheme and benefited, two of whom went straight into full time jobs, one with me. The third I lost touch with, she was not so good but gained valuable experience. You do like to overdramatise, clearly inflienced by left wing mythology!
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
28 November 2008
08:239929#15
there are doubts in both mager partys,both promise the earth but never really deliver on promises.no one party has a clue in what to do for the best the reason being every thing goes tits up after a couple of months.
Sid Pollitt
28 November 2008
17:219942#16
My comment on young people having their lives put at risk on the YTS programme in the 1980s is not influenced by left wing mythology as Barry suggests; replying to a question in the HoC on 17 January 1989 John Cope MP, the Minister of State, Department of Employment said 'Since 1983, when YTS started, there have been 34 fatalities'.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
29 November 2008
21:559975#17
the whole country doubting the goverment and opistion are under a dark cloud to.