Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#1
Today the Queen, meets the ex IRA activist(now minister in Northern ireland)
Martin M c Guniess.
This guy murdered many innocent people in his time in the I.R.A. and it must be a heartbreak for those famly members who lost loved ones.
Although time moves on, and something have to give to move away from the violence, this realy is one of those difficult areas.
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Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#2
I think it is progress keefy..you have to remember it is difficult for the other side too, it would have been something akin to a suicidal betrayal if Martin McGuinness had contemplated such a thing say 30 years ago. He was indeed a commander of the IRA, I saw him make a speech as such many moons ago, when he was a young man and so was i..or near as dammit! He was a very young tousled haired blonde lad and wholly innocent looking. Associating him with the IRA would have been hard to fathom... if say he came in to your shop to buy a bottle of milk. No one more innocent looking could you meet in those days.
But a lot of water under the bridge since then, a lot of blood spilt. When the Queen visited the Republic of Ireland last year it was truly momentous, particularly so in the Republic...so i think this is all part of the process of moving forward.
One other small thing of extraordinary disbelief was the way that Martin McGuinness and the Rev Ian Paisley struck up a true friendship. Totally bewildering but fascinating to see those two laugh and joke together. The palpable bitterness previously between these people isnt always fully understaood across the water.
Guest 715- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 2,438
#3
Must be very difficult for the Queen, the handshake was to be in private but now they are trying to make it public, a step too far.
Audere est facere.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#4
I'm sure there will be many differing views on this latest move, and that of such people being in positions of power.
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howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#5
i am sure her majesty was nauseated at the thought of shaking hands with mcguinness, things have improved a lot for the people in the 6 counties since first john major then tony blair brought everyone to the negotiating table.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#6
Suppose it's seen as progress, but at a big cost(not in financial terms)
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
#7
to be honest the hand shake should be in public and not hidden behind closed doors.this then would help move the pease process along.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#8
Of course its progress, we did some unspeakable things to the Germans not long ago and vice versa, we move on as civilised people.
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#9
David,
I understand where your coming from
but if your child/member of your family had been murdered by the I.R.A. would you hold the same opinion?
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Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
#10
And the view from the other side?
what if one of your relatives was shot/killed by the security forces? interned without trial? etc etc
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 719- Registered: 11 Jul 2011
- Posts: 443
#11
Yorkshire Born And Yorkshire Bred
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#12
i understand your reticence ted as strong views abound on both sides.
not a monarchist but as far as i know her majesty has never committed an atrocity the jury is out on mr mcguiness.
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
#13
The lady in question, in whose name much has been done, often meets, greets and eats with far more terrible people than Ireland's answer to Harpo Marx.
Did Thatcher ever clasp hands with Mandela?
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
#14
In two separate Army estates, in places where my dad was stationed, we had Irish next-door neighbours, who were also in the Army.
We got on very well with them. My mum used to look after the baby of one of these Irish ladies when she went out for the night with her husband, and in turn she used to look after me when my mum and dad went out. I must have been about 1.
Sane human nature tends to friendship and, when required, reconciliation. We can't remain fossilised in resentment. On that tone, I've never felt resentment towards the Irish.
Guest 732- Registered: 8 Nov 2011
- Posts: 128
#15
Martin M c Guniess has blood on his hands god knows how many murders he has sanctioned pure scum.
Guest 714- Registered: 14 Apr 2011
- Posts: 2,594
#16
Keith, I would find it impossible to move on if I had suffered but that doesn't mean we shouldn't
Keith Sansum1- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,948
#17
Let me not give the wrong impression here,
im not saying it's right or wrong, my mums irish.
There is a clear divide on all aspects of this issue
just wondered what others thought
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Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
#18
The big shake-hands moment took place..twice as I understand it, both in private and in front of the cameras and with genuine smiles.
There are of course extreme views on either side. There will be those who will think Martin McGuinness has betrayed the republican cause, in fact if he had done such a thing some years ago his life would have been in danger. But it is a sign of improving times that this could be done, but it will still make him unpopular with some. The Queen shook Mr Robinsons hand and then shook Martin McGuinnesses hand with the same broad smile.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
#19
PaulB, I think McGuinness's life is probably now even more in danger from the Real IRA hotheads. He has taken an extraordinary risk in shaking the Queen's hand and I can't really see what he has to gain except a lot of grief from his own side.
Likewise I can't see what the Queen has to gain either. Perhaps DC, in true Blair style, has been manipulating Her Maj in the hope of a propaganda gain for the coalition.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
