Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
15 February 2010
16:2040684#1
A Big Issue this from what I`ve read on the other thread, which I thought, warrants one to itself. I confess to being totally ignorant of the homeless, although I have seen them about on the streets of London and elsewhere. On seeing many of them, regarding their young age and physical fitness, I`ve had the attitude of get off your arse and go and look for work. I`m sure some of them may deserve that, but not all. Bern brought up some lots of important points regarding this topic, and again, on this forum, I`ve recieved an education into things happening around me which I have no knowledge of. It was also good to see that Sue was straight onto it, with a phone call to get the person in the subway sorted, (we`ll assume he`s without accommodation). Perhaps with me, I was taken in by the media over the years, as I well recall, (and you may too), the case of that young lad begging somewhere who was followed home where he had a car, and the rest of it..... Just an individual case, but that will remain in people`s minds and tarring the rest with the same brush. Anyway, enough of my thought`s, what about yours? And does Dover have a problem with these people, and are they local?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
15 February 2010
16:3440686#2
There are undoubtedly layabouts who sponge, but they are not usually the homeless, they are usually the ones with mobiles and cars and a family of similar persuasion. Homeless people are there for so many reasons, often heartbreaking. I have never been homeless but I am painfully aware that we are all just a heartbeat from it - a breakdown, job loss, relationship breakdown, and often for the young it is rooted in abuse at home. I have known many people who have experienced homelessness and there are few who would claim to want it and none who would claim to enjoy it. Picture this: you are out, it is cold, you turn to go home but there isn't a home to go to, no space to call your own, no patch of earth that can be called yours and which you can defend or do as you will with, no front door to shut against the elements and the crowd. Add to that the fact that you may be beaten or verbally abused every day, you are hungry and where are you going to get a drink of water or a cup of tea? Add to that the possibility that you are hearing an unpleasant voice in your head telling you you are rubbish and deserve it all. It is worth a thought.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
15 February 2010
17:2840690#3
I was surprised to read Ross`s posting about having to be at an abode for 6 month`s minimum before you can be employed, or rather, considered for employment. Is that a law? Also, why can immigrants come straight into the country and get a job? I`m assuming that`s what happen`s, but again, out of my depth here.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 February 2010
19:1740698#4
i would like to know the answer to that too colin.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
15 February 2010
19:5640701#5
I'm sure that Ross is right on the 6 month clause. On the other point raised, if you are an EU citizen with a valid work permit you are entitled to work in the UK, the same goes for us in any other EU country, supposedly, correct me if I am wrong.
15 February 2010
19:5840702#6
The cynical answer is we Brits have less rights in our own country than those visiting it. On the news tonight, an article about the old folks held hostage in Somalia. The local Somali community spoke very strongly about how wrong it was for them to be held and called for their immediate release. All very laudible and they deserve credit for their words and actions..
However, at the meeting in London there were a reported 700 Somali's attending. 700!!!! I don't know how many Somali's there are in the UK, but, I was shocked to find so many attending a meeting. Going on the 80/20 principle that suggests in London alone there could be 3500 Somali's; why so many and what are they all doing here?
If we extrapolate those numbers across nations we have no real relationship with, the numbers could be staggering. Of course, diplomatic missions require staff and families and they absolutely should be allowed to be here, but what of the rest?
What has this got to with homeless people? Well, 3500 Somali's have to live somewhere, as do all the other foreign nationals. Now, I'm not a BNP member, but, you have to wonder why our Government isn't tougher on proteccting it's own people who clearly need homes AND jobs.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
15 February 2010
20:1140705#7
My brother and his wife had to come back from South Africa last year, because he had been made redundant, or rather his job was done away with.
He spent several months over there looking for a job before he came back, but he couldn't get one and very quickly the equity disappeared and he had to sell their house and nothing was left. They had to sell all their furniture to get the tickets to fly back.
They went to live with our (other) brother in Southampton, whose wife now wants them out.
He has spent the last 6 months looking for a job, any job, but as he has lived outside the U.K. the argument is, he has no U.K. work experience, no qualifications and is 57 years old.
They have no money, no home, no furniture, the local council in Southampton won't help them, so what can they do ?
Try the underpass I suppose.
Roger
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
15 February 2010
20:1340707#8
It`s like the old saying in the States Sid. If a citizen over there struggles for social security, they go to Puerto Rico, get citizenship, then come back as an immigrant. No problem`s..... Just to add to this, it must be a nightmare over there with probably every country wanting to emigrate there. Probably a bigger problem than here maybe?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
15 February 2010
20:3740711#9
I happen to see us as a global family, so I don't really have a problem with anyone working in the UK and supporting themselves. One experience I have however that could sour me if I chose.........my husband has a huge work ethic (jokes on a postcard please c/o PaulB) and so do I: we want to work, and more than that we need to work, and have never ever ever shirked. We moved to Ireland for a very short while as an experiment mainly to please me (he really is very English and it didn't work out for lots of reasons, among them the culture difference....don't get me started. ) So, we moved back to the UK after a few months. We were avidly work-seeking, wanted desperately to work and both of us were confident that we would soon have work again in the UK - even after the kids arrived we worked, making efforts to share the childcare between us, me working nights him days, asking for nothing - we really are very laudable!!!!!! We had never taken a penny in sickness or unemployment benefits. Despite being clear that we were genuine work-seekers, had never taken anything, were not planning to take anything long term, we were unable to access any support at all pro tem, despite being fully paid up (and some) UK citizens. We struggled along for a while supporting ourselves pitifully until the work arrived, as you do, but it left a bit of a bitter taste I have to say. We are not about to decry the system, but it seemed to us a bit unfair at the time.........we have only ever been registerably unemployed for about 2 months between us including this time.
15 February 2010
22:0640713#10
I understand what you and your husband went through Bern, and it's very very tough indeed. The problem is not, oddly enough, one of Government, but more HR professionals setting ridiculous qualification criteria for almost every job, and as a result, unqualified, under-qualified, middle aged and senior folks are almost immediately excluded from the hiring process.
The only motivation I can find for doing this is to protect company pension schems from short term contributors who might become long term beneficiaries. My counter-argument to that is, young people are much more likley to move on and, if they contribute to a scheme, it will likely be decades before they call on it. Any well run pension scheme ought to be able to plan ahead for such things.
Tony Blur suggesting we might work until we are 70 demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of how the UK job market actually works. Come the revolution, we should round up all HR people and send them to Tristan da Cunha.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
15 February 2010
22:3140718#11
sorry to hear about rogers brother, it seems sometimes that a lifetime of hard work is not qualification in itself.
i must echo our sid here with his comments on personnel people, sorry HR, the tick box mentality seems to rule them.
15 February 2010
22:3240719#12
We are all the cannon fodder for HR depts!!! It was really the benefits system that was so soul-destroying, though. we were confident enough that we would get work - we are both very employable and assertive! - but it was that interim period that was a bit of a challenge and we could have used a tiny proportion of the hard-earned taxes we had donated being offered back to us for a leg-up. Didn't happen. We have paid so much over the years it seemed a bit of a joke that we couldn't get any back even for a short period despite our employability and active and strenuous job-hunting. It felt at the time (and I know it was an exageration!!) as if we woud have been better off refusing to find work, sitting on our jacksies and shouting loudly about what we were "entitled" to!!!!!!!! And perhaps podding out a few babies while we were at it! But no, we did it all wrong: we got married, had babies, worked hard, supported ourselves and our family wihout any help or handouts, paid a fortune in taxes and contributions, and when we were in need, for such a short period, got jacks**t in return.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
16 February 2010
10:0140742#13
Thank you Howard - seems my brother's plight wasn't worthy of anyone else's comment.
He has worked all his life, so has his wife; he came back because he needed to work to earn monery, he didn't want to claim benefits, but be productive - all four brothers have always worked (although two have now retired), but he still can't get work.
Southampton Council have said sod-off, so, at 57 he is out on the streets and he is not a lazy good for nothing.
Roger
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
16 February 2010
10:1540745#14
Roger that was indeed a very good post about your brother..Im sure a number of people will have read it and pondered on it. Very sad story but one that is all too familiar in relation to the age situation. In a recession hit shrinking job market nobody wants or needs, sadly, to employ anyone over a certain age. Various government bodies have been trying to address that situation, but when even the BBC practise ageism on a grand scale you can see the difficulty. Fingers crossed though that the situation will improve for your brother.
16 February 2010
10:2240748#15
Absolutely. The waste of expertise and experience is tragic.
16 February 2010
10:2840754#16
Criminal even!
16 February 2010
10:3140756#17
Roger - sorry if it looked as if we overlooked you - I was hoping to demonstrate some solidarity with your brother throuhg our experience. Sometimes it feels like the good people are shafted and the others get away with it. That isn't a political comment, by the way!!!!!
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
16 February 2010
19:2140804#18
Thanks guys - I know there wasn't anything political Bern and I appreciate your comments.
If we had more space, I'd offer him a room, but I can't; I have lent him some money to tide him over.
To think he has absolutely nothing and can't get a (even temporary) home is staggering in this day and age.
Roger
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
16 February 2010
21:0440823#19
Not always good with words Roger, and found it a bit hard what to put regarding your brother`s plight, but It`s good to see you put it on the forum for us all to see, and can only hope his life soon changes for the better. P.S. Could he not find something nearer Dover, with perhaps someone looking in on the comments, who may offer some sort of help?
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
17 February 2010
08:0940846#20
He used to live and work in Deal and his wife worked in Castle Street at the dentist (not the new one of course), but because they have/had been living with my other brother in Southampton, he's been looking for work all over that area, including Surry, Sussex and Kent - and he's not looking for a brain-surgeons job, but not a kithchen porter either (hope I don't offend kitchen porters).
Roger