howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
just heard that kent county council have given the go ahead for a grammar school to expand by moving to a new site, the first in over half a century in england.
the present government has made it illegal for any new ones to be built.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
No Howard - there is no change in the law, the position is just the same regarding new Grammars, sadly. Gove has upset a fair few Conservatives by ruling out expanding the Grammar sector into areas where there are none.
As far as Dover is concerned we have the opposite problem to some places, too many Grammar places available for the catchment so there is, in effect, 'double selection' that is causing a lot of problems for the local High schools in meeting some government targets. We need to reduce the overall number of Grammar places and amalgamate the two schools simply because a lot of children are going to Grammars who would not have been selected in my day.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
What you have to remember is that David Cameron is on record for his absolute hatred of grammar schools. This from a public school twit.
I'd laugh if it were not so serious.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,888
What a strange thing to say, that we have too many Grammar School places available. One for boys and one for girls is just right, Duke of Yorks and the College although in Dover are not really there for the local children.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
That is not true, Philip, not at all.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Jan - I am not talking about the DoY or The College but the two State Grammars only.
They eat far deeper into the child population than would be the case if they operated the Kent Test only so children who previously would not go to Grammar are selected. The problem is that as the child population has shrunk, the places in the two grammars have not done (at least not to the same extent) and the High schools have taken the burden falling places.
The High schools are still required by HMG to achieve the same pass rate of GCSEs are areas that are not selective, 35% A-C Grade GCSEs including Maths and English. That target is reasonable in non-selective areas and, indeed in selective areas, but in Dover with the grammars taking a much bigger bite of the more able children it is a very problem. This target is set to rise as well making the task even worse (it started at 30%). In fact it might now even be 40% and that represents a massive problem and a lot of resources need to be thrown at that target.]
Don't get me wrong. I am a big supporter of grammars and would love to see more of them around the country but the way they are now in Dover we have a real problem and some very good High schools could find themselves in special measure as a result.
Another issue, of course, is that HMG should make allowance for selective areas. but that is not happening and even so, the double selection problem would still be a challenge for Dover.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
things can change very quickly regarding school age children, we have had an influx of people to dover in recent years that tend to have large numbers of children.
most are pre school, a few primary school and eventually they will need secondary education.
in many parts of the country schools were closed based on projected figures that proved to be inaccurate.
Guest 725- Registered: 7 Oct 2011
- Posts: 1,418
Who was it who was quoted as saying the following:
"A pledge to build more grammar schools would be an electorial albatross".
"It is delusional to think that a policy of expanding a number of grammar schools is a good idea".
".....unpopular with parents. They don't want children divided into successes and failures at 11".
Even two mouths, sorry two brains David Willetts was quoted at the time saying " ......selection by ability at age 11 did not work, or help social mobility".
However once Stuart Wheeler a major party donor at the time alongside other conservative party donors got wind of how out of touch Cameron was with the grass roots, the real conservatives, Cameron eventually, conveniently changed his mind.
Of course this U-turn was a mere dry run for Cameron who made it his political trademark to U-turn on every single issue he put forward.
His greatest achievement to date is to have invented a sign for failing schools which you can see up and down the country.
It's called an academy school and you can see hundreds of them from Lands end to John'o'Groats.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
earlier we had "tall" paul carter, head honcho at maidstone crowing over the result.
alternatively this chap was up in arms over the money to be spent here, arguing that in times of austerity the money could be better spent on other schools.
Guest 716- Registered: 9 Jun 2011
- Posts: 4,010
KCC & Government are not singing from the same hymn sheet at the moment.....hav`nt for some time......
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
agree reg, i think that paul carter is his own man and won't be told what to do from on high.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
Good for Paul Carter. This is what localism is all about. Now they need to allow new Grammars in those areas where there are none...
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
A very clear account from Barry there highlighting the problems faced by local schools.
Unfortunately the reasoning behind the opening/expansion of this one, provides justification for the closing of Grammar schools in areas like Dover.
Guest 731- Registered: 8 Nov 2011
- Posts: 241
At the end of the day surely we all want to give our children the best education we can. My daughter is at the girls grammar and I for one cannot praise the school enough. The standard of teaching is excellent and the results outstanding. Surely at the end of the day thats what its all about.
Keith Sansum1
- Location: london
- Registered: 25 Aug 2010
- Posts: 23,942
there are a number of issues here;
looks like there is some agreement that there are to many grammar schools in dover, unlike other parts of kent and the country.
now you can continue blindly with this policy as barryw suggests paul cater should do, but at the same time it doesn't address future problems in dover.
on the question of grammar schools neither major party can claim any kind of victory on the grammar issue.
as has been said by posters cameron must be the KING OF U TURNS just now says what people want to hear, whether its good for the country or not.
then we had labour who did nothing to change this issue whilst in power in fact they encouraged grammar schools.
so realy neither party has much to shout about
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