11 August 2010
12:1064931#1
Hi Guys,
I`ve only just stumbled across the sad news of your individual problems with illness and it goes without saying that I wish you Colin and Ross`s partner all the best. The worry and stress we can only imagine.
You`re obviously both bright chaps so I assume that you have no doubt done the usual rounds of internet research etc., on your respective problems. However, and please don`t shoot me down for this, could I recommend that you have a read of a book by Phillip Day entitled "Cancer-Why we`re still dying to know the truth".
If you trust your doctors etc., 100% and don`t wish to consider any alternatives to the drugs and chemicals involved in the so called "treatment" then please forgive me for troubling you at this most sensitive of times. It is not my intention to offend anybody with my own beliefs.
However, what I would say is that I have seen first hand the difference that an alternative therapy can have.
About eighteen months ago my daughter was finally diagnosed with an auto-immune disease having spent many months prior to diagnoses wondering what on earth was wrong with her with numerous weird symptons. We did the usual round of hospital consultants who said that her condition was incurable but various drugs could be given in an attempt to aleviate the worst of the symptons, if you could cope with the side effects etc. At worst, her condition could prove to be fatal. During this period she was unable to work for several months.
Cutting a long story short, I didn`t accept the doctors verdict and after a fair amount of research treated her myself with natural supplements, vitamins, nutrition, a change in diet and a reduction in stress. After six months or so, she then went from being someone who couldn`t walk much further than a couple of hundred yards due to pain and exhaustion, to a girl that can now run or walk five miles every day with her collection of medicines long consigned to the bin.
On her last visit to St. Thomas`s in London the consultant couldn`t understand her dramatic recovery. They would not concede that it was anything due to her change in lifestyle etc., of which didn`t surprise me in the least.
Anyway chaps, please at least consider having at look at the publication mentioned above. I`m sure it can only help.
All the very best for the future,
John.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
11 August 2010
12:1964935#2
excellent post john, i hope that colin and ross can draw strength from that.
the medical profession find it very difficult to understand that anything that is not in their text books can also work.
the queen is a great fan of homeopathy and seems to be going along very well on it.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
11 August 2010
12:2964938#3
John...
You must be delighted with your daughter's improvement.
Can you prove it was your treatments rather than her body just reverting to normal working order. I know that a change of diet can make a lot of difference to many conditions so I am just curious.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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11 August 2010
14:3564949#4
Thanks Howard, I do hope the boys consider it.
Hi Jan, you raise of course the most important question in that can you prove that an alternative treatment actually worked. I have to be honest and say that I can`t prove it as such, but then the medical profession can`t disprove it either.
All I can say is that my daughter responded in the expected way once her body was given the appropriate nutrients and stress reduction etc., that she was previously lacking and which, in my opinion, was the reason her system had broken down in the first place and was left with an immune system that was fighting against itself. I am 100% sure in my own mind that without the implemented changes Alison would still be suffering from her illness.
As you are no doubt aware, the human body is an incredible piece of machinery and given the right "fuel" can fight off and recover from virtually any disease. However, the road to recovery is very rarely down to one single element of change . It is due to a combination of several factors including both a physical and mental approach.
Most diseases occur for a reason and are rarely down to "bad luck". It`s our bodies way of signaling that something is out of kilter and needs correcting. Conventional medicine may "treat" the problem but it rarely address`s the actual cause.
However, out of respect for Colin and Ross I don`t really want to ramble on too much about this situation on this thread as we can all appreciate what a difficult time they are both going through.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
11 August 2010
16:4464962#5
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Guest 695- Registered: 30 Mar 2010
- Posts: 426
11 August 2010
16:4764964#6
Top class posts John, my thoughts and best wishes go out to Colin and Ross's partner.
A close friend of mine has suffered and continues his fight. He's a tenacious b***er, carries out his own research and a lot of his own treatment. If there's a way he may be able to help contact me and I'll be happy to put you in touch.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
11 August 2010
19:5065004#7
Thank`s John for this interesting thread. I know the medical profession don`t know it all, and we`re a complicated species as far as health goes which drinking and smoking as an example can show. I`ll mention my dear old nan again, who died about 5 years ago at the age of 106, and she loved her whiskey and Mackeson, and also ran a pub up near Cleveleys in Lancashire for many years before the war, and I`m sure endured much passive smoking. Anyway, Ross`s partner is in a more serious category than mine, as he is obviously very concerned. I`m only on two blood pressure tablet`s and one other low mg tablet per day, plus radiotherapy every 6 month`s. I`m afraid you`re going to suffer me a little longer on this forum yet. I`m glad your daughter came through okay John, and as I said before, we`re a complicated species.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
11 August 2010
23:2665050#8
Thank you for the posts and the thoughts John and others.
Yes your post is thought provoking and there are many things that conventional science and medicine struggle to explain or deal with. My concern with alternative treatments are that many/most of them struggle to demonstrate their efficacy in properly controlled double blinded trials, something that all medicines have to be able to do before they are inflicted upon people. (for a debunking of homoeopathy and its principle adherents try here
http://www.badscience.net/ - he also has plenty to say about nutritionists).
Do not get me wrong I firmly believe that we are what we eat etc. and the more natural, unprocessed and unadulterated the food and drink we consume the better for us, I also believe that in the western world we generally eat too much meat and too much dairy products and ought to be substituting them with fruit and veg. By the way my partner has been a vegetarian for over 30 years and I have been one for over 20 now)
Lets be honest cancer is only treated by killing cancer cells and by killing them quickly, whilst limiting the damage to the rest of the healthy cells in the body. There are many ways to do this including the conventional medical approach of chemo and/or radio therapy, there are also non conventional/alternative treatments such as the Budwig protocol and its variants. All of these treatments can and often do deliver a heavy toxic load to the body and need to be managed properly in consultation with healthcare professionals. Certainly the Budwig protocol has a long history and track record of very positive results in many people, though Johanna Budwig was a bit of an eccentric old bird and seemed particularly in favour of delivering flax oil enemas to her patients.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
11 August 2010
23:2965052#9
Thanks for the reply Colin and glad to learn that we`ve still all got more of those super photos of yours to look forward too. They really are very good!
It`s strange that you should mention your nan as I was actually going to mention cases like that but was a bit worried about elongating this particular thread. You`re quite right, however, we all seem to know someone that somehow defies the medical "norm" who apparently doesn`t follow the so called recommended path but still lives to a ripe old age. A few years back an elderly chap over the road from me passed away. He was well into his nineties, smoked all his life and without any exaggeration, drank seven to eight cups of tea a day with at least four heaped teaspoonfuls of sugar.
You really had to see it to believe it. As you can imagine, his eventual passing was not smoking related so I guess he just had the right genetics coupled with the fact that the tea may have acted as a powerful anti-oxident. Who knows?
It`s good to hear that at least your not on mega medication, as such, so let`s hope that the future really will be positive.
As we`ve all said before, let`s hope Ross can stay strong and be supportive for his partner. These situations are never easy and sometimes the last thing you need is umpteen different people telling you what you should and shouldn`t be doing, so I hope he doesn`t take offence at my previous suggestion.
All the best for now and take care.
11 August 2010
23:5765054#10
Hi Ross,
Good to hear from you. Our posts obviously crossed in transit.
I understand fully what you are saying and wouldn`t dream of attempting for one minute to sway you with my beliefs. You are a switched on guy and will, quite rightly, determine yourself what`s best for you and your partner.
All I would say is that the trials that I have studied all seem to be above board and the negative trials have often been the work of people in " Big Pharma " who of course have their own agenda.
Anyhow, I`ll leave it there as I could go on and on about this particular subject but it`s just not right that I intrude and perhaps test your patience at this difficult time.
All the best Ross.
Guest 657- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 3,037
12 August 2010
07:5265062#11
John thanks for your thought provoking posts. I am so pleased your daughter is doing well.
12 August 2010
11:4965115#12
Thanks Jeane.
When and if we, or someone close to us, suffers from a serious condition it certainly focus`s the mind on lifes priorities and "who killed who" in the weekly soap suddenly doesn`t seem that important anymore. Or even the latest England football result!
I`m sure that most of us take life for granted and the fact that we can move
about and use our faculties doesn`t all really mean much to us until we can`t actually utilise them of course. A good example of this was that I had to somewhat get Alison to ease up on her running/walking as she was probably beginning to overdo it, simply and purely because it was a novelty and joy for her just to be able to do "normal" things without suffering pain and exhaustion. I don`t think she was much bothered about walking prior to her illness, she`d have just got in her car!
It may be more appropriate to perhaps start a new thread on peoples thoughts on alternative treatments, experiences and even "rip-offs" etc?
Loved your article on the "alternative" foot treatment.........But why stop at the feet!
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
13 August 2010
00:1565282#13
John, thanks for you thoughts and articles.
I like all of us rely to an extent on the output of big pharma, even if it is only headache, indigestion and cold medicines. Lets be honest most of dont have ready access to willow twigs to chew to get salicylic acid derivatives into our system to deal with pain etc.
Whilst there is some truth in the assertion that big pharma would not wish a cheap natural remedy to be discovered or developed for many ailments as it would clearly, at least short term threaten their profit base; until of course they bought out the producers of the natural cure, or packaged their own version. I struggle to give any semblance of credence to the plethora of conspiracy theories littering the interwebs that big pharma have these cures locked away, or that they fix trials of natural remedies to make them fail, or that they bribe doctors and medical authorities to only use and prescribe "conventional" treatments. I also struggle, as an atheist, to give credence to sites that are littered with bible references and "praise the lord" type commentary, even when the "testimonials" themselves tell an interesting tale. As someone with a background and training in science I want to see these cures stand up to proper double blinded trials and rigorous academic peer review of the results and any associated research, currently something the British Homoeopathy Association refuses to do, in fact they were recently damned by 4 research scientists for misrepresenting their findings. Equally it seems the response of the majority of nutritionists and nutritional therapists is to sue those who criticise them (all the cases I can track down show the plaintiff lost) or they just publicly call them liars as Gillian McKeith has done on a number of occasions.
Of course none of the foregoing means that there are not things that we do not understand, or are the result of a large set of complex interactions that make it difficult to prove exactly what the causitive element of "the cure" was. It also does not mean that eating a sensible nutritionally balanced diet that avoids heavily processed foods, taking moderate exercise, not smoking or giving it up, reducing alcohol consumption to at least the current guideline limits is not going to make a huge difference to our well being and general health - it will.
But honestly some of the alternative treatments suggested out there on the interwebs are downright dangerous, for example the one that recommends cancer sufferers consume a powdered mineral that is very closely related to asbestos, this self same mineral is present in the soil of an area in Turkey that has a huge spike in the incident rates of lung cancers. Or the one that recommend daily high colonic enemas, a process that in virtually all cases leads to hugely increased incidence of colon infections, bowel disorders etc. exactly the thing it is mean to prevent. By all means try alternative and/or complimentary therapies, but make sure that the cure is not worse or will not lead to worse than what it is trying to fix. I do agree that conventional medicine does not know all the answers and along with medical researchers and big pharma has often missed the bleedingly obvious because they were not looking for it, or it does not fit their mindset.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
13 August 2010
01:2065293#14
Excellent Post Ross. Many thanks for taking the time to share your views.
You`ve made some extremely good points which certainly gives one cause for thought.
It`s certainly true that you have to be very careful of some alternative treatments, as you have correctly stated, some can do you some serious damage. However, I would class that as going down the "weido" road and with them you pays your money and takes your chance. From a personal perspective, I do believe in natural supplements and vitamins on the basis that, in general, if they don`t do you any good then it`s pretty unlikely that they will do you much harm.
I do know of trials where people have set out to disprove the effectiveness
of vitamins and on studying the "trial" it`s evident that they wouldn`t have worked anyway because a synthetic vitamin has been used and at a dose low enough to be ineffective. You then see the headline plastered all over the front pages of the newspapers declaring " Doctors say vitamins don`t work etc. "
I`m also sceptical of Pharma drugs. I`m not saying this of course about all drugs as from time to time some of them are life savers, no doubt about it.
The main problem with most prescription drugs are the side effects, which in some cases can be worse and more dangerous that the ailment that you are trying to treat. "Statins" would be a good example of medicine shoved out willy nilly by so called doctors, when in fact probably only about one person in a hundred that is on them actually needs to be.
I probably don`t think much of big pharma to be honest. Probably because of their underhanded marketing and ethics, still pushing drugs that are known to cause serious side-effects, their so called "independant research" by people who turn out to be dependant on them for grants etc., and so on and so on.
At the end of the day Ross, I think this subject/issue is a bit like the old EU question, you either believe in it or not!
Actually, this is a massive topic and in all honesty we could be writing pages for many days. Not recommended!
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
13 August 2010
19:5665409#15
John thanks for the response
I agree this is a huge subject, I agree that too often (overworked/lazy/impatient/out of date - take your pick based on your prejudice) GPs over-prescribe medicines, there are also cases of pharmaceutical cos "bribing" GPs to prescribe their particular treatment as opposed to someone elses.
Many substances have side effects depending on dosage, including naturally occurring substances, also most vitamin tablets available in the high street are "manufactured" rather than naturally produced, so as to ensure consistent quality , purity, stength etc.
Of course there is dubious science on both sides of the divide I would heartily recommend the following sites for exposing the fakes, quacks, imposters, charlatans and snake oil salesmen trying to win us over with their magic potions
Bad Science
http://www.badscience.net/
Quackwatch - Your Guide to Quackery, Health Fraud, and Intelligent Decisions
http://www.quackwatch.org/
PharmaGossip - Looking beyond the PR spin of big pharma
http://pharmagossip.blogspot.com/
Bad Homeopathy -
http://www.jonn.co.uk/badhomeopathy/modules/news/
HealthWatch - the independent charity not the gov one
http://www.healthwatch-uk.org/"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
13 August 2010
23:3965418#16
Thanks for that list Ross. Some really interesting sites there. Gosh, it makes you wonder if you can trust anybody or anything these days. What with that lot AND our politicians spin on most things!
One very relevant point that you make regarding vitamins, and you will be only too aware of this, is that how and who manufactures them and the quality of ingredients is paramount. If they are of poor quality ( and probably cheap! ) then you are wasting your time as they will be of minimal benefit. ( ie., even Vit. C is not all the same )
Thanks again for the list of websites Ross, half of those I`d never heard of so will enjoy having a good old trawl through them over the weekend.
Perhaps I could also take this opportunity to thank Roger for his previous post regarding his wifes kidney problems. Probably a difficult situation to imagine that anything "alternative" would be of much help. She must be made of strong stuff Roger to recover from the trauma of a failed transplant and still stay positive. You probably don`t need to be told that she`s one brave lady.
Probably because she`s got a good man at her side!
All the best to you chaps.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
14 August 2010
06:4165426#17
Well, thank you John, I appreciate that - but most of all, I appreciate her.
Roger
