Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 December 2010
08:5182717#1
I have often posted about the incompetence of the last Labour regime but nothing, apart from our financial mess, illustrates this more than a bit of news I picked up today in the Speccie. Gordon Brown loved Private Finance Initiatives (PFIs) to finance a lot of government projects. Lots of schools and hospitals were built that way for instance. This kept these projects off the government books making government borrowing levels look lower than they really are and most official borrowing figures still do not include them. But Brown's PFI contracts are very poor value for money indeed.
The Treasury is run by a PFI contractor believe it or not. When George Osborne wanted to order fish and chips for six from the canteen when working late he was told it would cost £148. That is nearly £25 each!
Tory backbencher Jesse Norman has set up a PFI Rebate Campaign to get the contractors to take a 0.5% cut which would cost them £500million. Looks a lost cause to me but, according to the Speccie, if the companies refuse to compromise it could cost them a lot more than that.
Lets hope he succeeds...
2 December 2010
09:1282722#2
About time!
DT1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 15 Apr 2008
- Posts: 1,116
2 December 2010
09:2382728#3
Totally agree Barry, PFI is just a way of the private sector exploiting areas of the public sector for profit and the government to balance the books.
What really needs to be done is for someone to open another canteen right beside it and only charge £147, this would drive the prices down and they would regulate themselves.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
2 December 2010
09:2582729#4
That seems rather a lot for fish n chips but I suppose there's fisn n chips and there's fish n chips. If you order fish n chips from Raymond Blanc they are likely to cost something like that....so perhaps the Commons Canteen feels that its in such a lofty place that anything goes. But then as we all know following the expenses scandal, the MPs did like to treat themselves well and they are still grumbling about having been found out..."oh the injustice of it all" said one MP the other day
But there has been much talk, in fact much current government spin about the awful mess they had inherited. They said that over and over again..clearly a tactic, but as Alan Johnson said while in sparkling form in the House the other day...all that was baloney following the recent figures. So perhaps you are being a bit harsh on poor oul Gordon....
2 December 2010
09:3082733#5
Every government inherits a mess from the previous lot! Inevitably!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 December 2010
09:3982737#6
Lots of people here missing the point entirely.
PaulB - 'rather a lot' sounds like the understatement of the year. This is not the House of Commons or Raymon Blanc - this is the Treasury's canteen, a works canteen if you will.... Nothing either to do with expenses but everything to do with people working late needing some sustenance. Neither is this spin, this is a simple illusration of the very poor value Labour's PFI initiative provide and one right in the heart of the financial decision makers. PaulB you cannot spin Labour out of the mess they are responsibe for.
DT1 - No-one forced Brown into hiding so much of his spending through PFIs on such appalling terms. It is he who was responsible for that and businesses cannot be blamed for taking advantage of a spendthrift incompetent government determined to throw public money away.
2 December 2010
09:4482739#7
PFI was always a muddle and often created more problems than it solved. Although third sector business benefitted in some respects, the aftermath is a bit soggy and difficult to sweep up. Long term, as predicted, it has been a challenge.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
2 December 2010
09:5682741#8
When you think that fish and chips from the chippy would cost £4 or £5, I think it can only be called an extortionate ammount of money even adding on the cost of plating the stuff to the offices.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 December 2010
10:0982745#9
must have 18 caret gold plated fish and chips.
oh yes barry its all gorden browns fault not.
Guest 671- Registered: 4 May 2008
- Posts: 2,095
2 December 2010
10:1782748#10
Please don't tell us the Tories never kept, or are not still keeping things of the books?
You intimate in this thread that this practise with PFI is still being used, if that is right, why are you not condemning the issue, instead of just bashing Labour for using it?
"My New Year's Resolution, is to try and emulate Marek's level of chilled out, thoughtfulness and humour towards other forumites and not lose my decorum"
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
2 December 2010
10:4582757#11
much as i agree with all the sentiments expressed here about p.f.i. barry is using selective memory here.
john major's government introduced it in 1992.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
2 December 2010
10:4782759#12
howard,is that the same as selective hearing.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 December 2010
10:4782760#13
GaryC - the PFI contracts still run, the government is locked into them at great cost. Hence Jesse Norman's campaign to get the costs reduced.
I am not aware of any new ones being instigated, given the spending cuts I would suspect none are.
The very first PFI's were under John Major, I accept that, but compared to the massive use of them later by Brown these were very small beer indeed.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 December 2010
10:4882761#14
Howard - we crossed our posts and I have answered that.
2 December 2010
11:1482774#15
Exactly - the unpicking is complex and challenging and will again leave more challenges than solutions. Major started - unintentionally, I am sure - a consistent problem. A little thinking things through would be a bonus!!
2 December 2010
16:2182836#16
Barry,
Would this be the canteen in the treasury that the tories have had control over the last six months???????????
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
2 December 2010
17:2182843#17
Indeed it is Jimmy and if you are following the discussion the costs are tied up with a PFI contract agreed by Labour. This is an example of the very poor value for money obtained by Labour under their extensive use of PFI. Hence the initiative by Jesse Norman.