Fine particle pollution surfaces again
- 30 January 2012 21:02150427On BBC1 just now - not a new issue I know, but I did not realise just how serious the problem was in Dover.
It is the one reason I can see for building a new town at Whitfield, instinctively fleeing the noise and dirt of the heavily industrialised coastal environment and shifting the settlement away from the sea and to higher, cleaner ground. - 30 January 2012 21:13150435new one on me andrew, what are the nuts and bolts of the issue and the dover connection?
- 30 January 2012 21:24150440As I understand it, Howard, the ferries and other channel shipping belch out particularly fine soot particles. I am told that the fuel they use has just about the highest sulphur content of any petroleum product, the root cause of the dust issue.
The particles penetrate into the deepest corners of the lungs and from there secrete themselves all round the body, enhancing cancer risk.
Inside Out (probably on iPlayer already) did a piece on the risks to airport workers and those living nearby, from the same issue, and referenced a 2009 edition where they showed Gateway Flats residents wiping layers of black soot off surfaces in their homes.
Worrying. - 30 January 2012 21:35150442so that has resurfaced, i remember an "expert" from k.c.c. telling us that we had nothing to fear and then we had the ferry companies telling us about their wonderful new filters.
a few years back i commented on here about the smoke coming from a speedferries vessel and the following day i got an e mail from them threatening all sorts.
our maritime expert captain ed connell has explained about this in the past, hopefully he will update us on this.
when i first moved here there was a report that residents of east cliff and marine parade had respiratory problems far above the national average. - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
30 January 2012 22:17150453The bits of Inside Out (not the One Show) that I saw were talking about airports in Denmark.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0071ms1-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - 30 January 2012 22:32150455If you live in Athol Terrace and put away a pack a day you need to have rethink...
- 30 January 2012 22:38150456The last time you asked that, Howard, was less than a year ago. I have done a quick search under "sulphur" and it was on 12 MAR 2011. At the time I said "This is a hardy perennial to which I respond at regular intervals! Please concentrate as I shall say zis only once!" Here it is again and I shall say zis only twice!
------------------------
Howard/Keith: This is a hardy perennial to which I respond at regular intervals! Please concentrate as I shall say zis only once!
Somebody always puts up a photo of a ferry starting her engines up, with a brief gout of black smoke as the first bit of uncombusted fuel passes through each cold engine, always followed by others tut-tutting about uncaring ferries belching black smoke.
The smoke clears within a second or two, as can be seen happening in your photo, but the impression is given that the ferries steam backwards and forwards all day belching (always belching) copious plumes of noxious smoke, poisoning us all and poisoning the planet.
What really happens is that the engines are stopped in port, thereby emitting no pollution, and a second or two of uncombusted fuel cannot be avoided when they are started up again. Just the same as a car or bus or truck. Occasionally an engine may have to be kept running in port to keep the ship alongside the berth in bad weather.
The ship in your photo is the European Seaway. Here is a photo of her leaving port, showing her characteristic emissions whilst underway. There will be no further transient gouts of black smoke until she prepares to leave Calais in two or three hours time.
The fuel used for the main engines is Heavy Fuel Oil (HFO). This used to have a high sulphur content but the North Sea and English Channel were designated as a Sulphur Emission Control Area in 2007 since when the ferries have been required to use low sulphur fuel with a maximum content of 1% sulphur.
This is achieved by taking bunkers which have been refined to 1% sulphur. The other way would have been to take high sulphur content fuel onboard and then filter the emissions as you speculated. This is a complex and expensive procedure and is not used. P&O trialled it with an emission filter on a single generator exhaust on the Pride of Kent some years ago but clearly it was not an economical proposition and their newbuilding employs low sulphur content fuel.
Using low sulphur fuel has greatly reduced sulphur emissions but the ever rising price of fuel has resulted in measures which have had an even greater effect. All of the ferry companies have reduced the speed at which the crossings are made and maintained the schedule by reducing the time spent in port. This small reduction in speed drastically reduces fuel consumption. The three giant DFDS ferries, for example, have four engines but normally run on only two when on passage - all four are required for manoeuvring in port.
Each generation of ferries is more economical on fuel than the preceding generation as advances are made in engine and hull design. For example: the latest ferry to enter service, Spirit of Britain, carries twice the payload of her predecessor, the Pride of Dover, whilst burning the same amount of fuel.
Believe me when I say that every attempt is being made to reduce fuel consumption, it is far and away the single most crucial factor occupying the minds of the ferry companies. Every possible measure is being explored and adopted.
Fuel prices are only going to carry on getting higher, particularly with the situation in the Arab countries (I spent much of my first six months at sea on a tanker running to Marsa el Brega where fighting is now taking place in Libya).
The principal competitor, Eurotunnel, is unaffected as their power supply is from the French nuclear electricity system, with a token input from wind turbines. Their competitive edge is therefore set to improve, even more so if future requirements for HFO to have a 0.1% sulphur content are ratified, resulting in a further dramatic increase in the price of fuel.
http://www.doverforum.com/letters/viewtopic.php?id=6555
----------------------
Further to the above, Viking Line have just ordered an LNG fuelled ferry, presumably they have done some sums on the economics involved. Also, a huge LNG terminal has just commenced construction at Dunkerque West close to the DFDS ferry terminal and DFDS have expressed an interest in future LNG fuelled ferries, they would certainly have no problem in topping them up!
http://www.lngworldnews.com/abb-wins-deal-for-viking-line-lng-ferry-finland/ - 30 January 2012 23:28150472Yes, all very interesting. We could add to the equation the pollution from HGVs steaming through Dover too, along the seafront or up the bridge in direction Whitfield.
What would happen if fuel became so expensive (or inaccessible) that Dover Port began to close down? Apart from the fact that we'd be breathing cleaner air, of-course.
Recently I reminded the Department for Transport of my representation proposals, including a rail-link to Western Docks. It should be covered by the carbon emission laws, which are intended to curb and reduce carbon pollution.
I'm still looking forward to a reply from London.Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 31 January 2012 20:40150657Well it's not looking good for those who want to save the planet. It seems their best intentions really are leading to the road of hell.
http://www.euractiv.com/climate-environment/biodiesels-pollute-crude-oil-leaked-data-show-news-510437
Still what do we expect eh?
Strangely many countries in the world insist on using biofuels by law. Funny how they ban smoking inside public buildings and yet do nothing to protect us out of doors on the street where cars and lorries pass by. - 31 January 2012 20:48150660totally agree philip, yet another fad that has been foisted on us is being exposed.
- 1 February 2012 01:01150695Philip, I'd be interested to know what you would suggest to reduce pollution in Dover.
We know that you don't like windmills and solar panels, but how would you reduce pollution here in Dover if asked to present a proposal?Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - 1 February 2012 01:20150697You are asking a question about two entirely separate issues.
The issue of windmills and solar panels have nothing whatsoever to do with pollution in the town. Pollution in the town is a matter to do with the exhaust emissions from cross channel ferries of which I am no expert. I'm not an expert in wind farms or solar panels either but I do know they don't provide enough energy to supply the UK or any other country and they rely on poor people's money in order to build them. They also do more damage to the environment than not having them.
As far pollution in the area goes I really don't know enough about how big a problem it poses.
On the face of it I suspect a large part of the problem lies in the amount of vehicles travelling through the town on their way to their respective destinations. On windless days or days when the wind is not travelling towards the South this would cause a problem, though how big a problem is difficult to say.
It has to be said that the BBC love to hype up things like this. So passive smoking, for example, is considered a major problem to the world.
Sensible folk blessed with common sense think otherwise so I tend to take this particular health scare for what it is - just another health scare. - 1 February 2012 01:32150700Hmmm. So it seems we'll be doomed with pollution from fine particles then.
The trouble is, one can't see the darned things until they've entered one's nose and one lies there in bed at night removing them!
Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
Rule Britannia!
Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ - Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,931
1 February 2012 08:44150713If I was the worrying kind I would be far more worried by the pollution from all the lorries and traffic in general than that produced by the ferries.
Putting that into perspective there is far less air pollution than when I was a child growing up in smog filled London.-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
------------------------------------------------------------------- - 1 February 2012 11:12150726Yes Howard I remember the uproar from SPEEDFERRIES and indeed I had a threatening menacing letter myself. I told my councillor about it at the time..young Nigel Collor and he asked to see it. I think it all started from a picture we carried taken by the other Cllr..Mr David Hannent and here it is...
David H took this on a simple camera while strolling along the seafront with his young daughter...and was shocked. These guys from Speedferries didnt just belch smoke when they started up the engines, but spewed it out for an age as they headed towards Boulogne. It was a common sight.
The reason they got so aggressive about it was because it was all true and they didnt want it highlighted.
Jan sadly all pollution goes into the one mix..trucks, buses, cars, ferries etc. In summertime here in Dover there is a layer of pollution you could cut with a knife..you can physically see it. Look at this...a Doverforum exclusive..
It shows a layer of pollution that levels off about 200ft above the earths surface trapping us all in a pollution bubble.. Here you can see it creating a mirage effect with Calais . I have watched the emissions rise to this plateau and level out..it doesnt rise continuously into the atmosphere but stays within this low hung bubble, trapping us in a seriously bad air situation. It is quite an extraordinary phenomenon.email: dover7@msn.com - 1 February 2012 11:18150728hadn't realised it was that long ago, the photos say it all really.
- 1 February 2012 16:34150815Yes it was all that time ago Howard. who'd believe it...and those pictures do tell the story.. I must say the second one is amazing even though ermm I took myself, not that I did much but the atmospherics in it are amazing. The buildings are actually the seafront flats at Calais but elongated in the mirror mirage affect created by the pollution.email: dover7@msn.com
