howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 February 2011
13:0091561caught some of a speech from the p.m. at a security conference in munich, the main plank appeared to be about countering muslim extremism. her referred to a new muscular liberalism that would counter the views of extremist.
in future funding will be cut to groups that do not embrace british values. those values include equality to woman, integration and democracy. in future all immigrants must learn to speak english. he maintained that whilst many groups did not believe in violence they did nothing to counter it.
there was a lot more to it, no doubt you will all see it on the news, i cannot find anything wrong with anything he said though there will be some that accuse him of being anti muslim.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
5 February 2011
16:0591572or being a member of the edl,who are having a little get together in luton .
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
5 February 2011
16:5591579Although we all cheerfully embraced multiculturalism one time it hasnt really worked out. There are too many enclaves where foreign groups just dont mingle in to the community. This is always bad news...it gives life and growth to simmering resentment. People should by all means remember their roots and traditions but should also strive to be part of the community where they aim to make a new life for themselves. Integration is the buzzword now.
Im not sure how Mr Cameron's speech resonates with Baroness Varsi who seemed to indicate that Muslims here in the UK were getting a very raw deal ...she did this only last week. Her recent speech was an effort to flag up their difficulties but here now MR Cameron has heaped even more difficulty upon them. So the messages from the various Government figures seems to be at odds with one another.
Brian we will always get fringe groups but its not quite the same thing. What Cameron is on about as far as I can tell anyway is full integration of the various racial groups within the community. This then should lessen the likes of home grown terrorism and so on. If people feel part of the UK they wont see it as a state alien to them even though they live here, and wont want to attack it...thats the theory anyway.
He wants to make everyone speak English too..easier said than done that one.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 February 2011
17:0291582paul
maybe a basic command of english should be a condition of entry?
brian
quite right about luton, this is costing the taxpayer £.800,000 in policing costs in order to keep two sets of thugs apart.
add to that, the retailers of luton have not opened up on the week's biggest shopping day.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
5 February 2011
17:1591584I dont think thats pratical though Howard re your point on the basic command of English. You see how much difficulty we have on immigration as it is, its a complete mess and a complete nightmare. If you have a family of asylum seekers escaping rape and pillage, or even if they claim to be escaping rape and pillage, you cant really ask about their command of English before letting them through.
Various citizenship things have been tried too ..swearing allegiance to the crown or whathave you, but it was all a bit sad. Political gesturing I feel.
It would certainly be good though for people to speak English as otherwise integration wont happen. Second generation immigrants will usually but the first flow wont in many cases.
Incidentally Muslim spokespeople have been on the news upset with Mr Camerons speech. They dont regard it as helpful hence my earlier reference to Baroness Varsi.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
5 February 2011
20:1291593I read it in the Guardian. Dave doesn't seem to be joking either; he means it!
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
5 February 2011
20:3391599paul
i was referring to immigrants rather than asylum seekers, mind you if someone suffering persecution goes through 20 countries to reach us then one would expect them to know english so that they can get work.
you are right about the citizenship thing though, smiths stock loads of books on how to pass the citizen test, none on how to beome a responsible british citizen.
heard a few muslims moaning about the timing of the speech, it was at a security conference specifically about how to handle terrorism, they seem to think that he should have avoided the subject.
the fact is that there was great support for him at the conference, even the prime minister of pakistan praised it.
Guest 653- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,540
6 February 2011
09:0591617I agree with your comments Howard.
Here in the Priory part of the Ward we are trying to get young people and their parents learning English and are looking for funding and ways to increase the numbers of those being taught.
We are also looking at ways to raise funds so we can engage PACE to help with integrating the young people in games and physical activities.
Integration must be the way forward; as you said Howard, some of them, have travelled through 20 countries to live in the Priory area, so the least we can do is help them integrate and learn English.
Roger
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
6 February 2011
09:5491625I was half asleep at the time but did anyone see the discussion on Breakfast this morning between going by their accents born here Muslim and West Indian. The West Indian was ranting about Cameron's speech the Muslim seemed to be more or less agreeing with Cameron.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
6 February 2011
10:1891632PaulB you said ""Although we all cheerfully embraced multiculturalism one time""
Speak for yourself. Many of us wanted nothing to do with that failed Nu-Lab experiment and predicted disaster. I have been warning for a lot of years on here that we need integration in this country and not aparteid (mult-culturalism by its proper name).
What Cameron said is perfectly true and is no surprise.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
6 February 2011
10:2591636Why do we spend millions on providing official publications in every language under the sun? Stopping that would make foreigners coming here learn English PDQ. If you move to France you don't get given a leaflet in English telling you how to claim benefits. Why do we produce such guidance in Albanian and Pushto?
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
6 February 2011
11:0791641all these signs, forms and posters in umpteen different languages must cost a small fortune.
the one that gets me is the one inviting people to speak to their neighbourhood police officer, if they do not understand english how can they discuss anything with him or her?
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,895
6 February 2011
12:0791656Easy you just get the interpreter in at even more cost. I agree we do give in over language difficulties much too easily make foreigners learn our language if they want to stay and live here for more than six months.
It is different situation with the genuine asylum seekers.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
6 February 2011
12:2591660Over here I have NO rights to purchase property or obtain certain jobs until I have been a full time resident for 5 years. Have to pay for Doctors appontments and some treatments..No unemployment benefit until one has contributed. Rents are higher for non residents. ie approx £1500 per month for a flat £2k upwards for a house.Needless to say there are no Euro scrougers over here. Also not being part of the EU means there is a certain freedom regarding trade,movement of labour and more importantly for BarryW no restraint on PC.
One can advertise for a male or female worker and a recent news report referred to the strengthing of UK ambulances were required to transport 'fat' people. No mention of overweight or obese..
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
6 February 2011
12:3591662Sounds very sensible and civilised to me Marek....
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
6 February 2011
16:3791680Just to go back to the use of English for the moment. Agree totally that its very useful to have all immigrants speaking English, but its not going to happen..no time soon anyway.
The immigrants are in jobs that cannot be filled by local people. Locals dont want the work so in come people from Poland or Rumania or what haveyou...the work gets done but the requirement for English is way down the list.
I myself went recently to a local restaurant for some business..no names..the boss wasnt home and none of the several staff could communicate because they didnt have a word of English between them. The work got done, which was the first requirement of the owner. If these guys had to do an English course first these staff places would not be filled and the business would be..well.. 'out of business'. Its a nice idea that everyone speak English but in reality its a long way from happening.
6 February 2011
16:4491683I did notice that while some of the "minority" reps wheeled out to comment on the Telly said they were "British" and supported "Britain" they at the same time said how dreadul it was that we should demand of them some of those things such as supporting democracy and equality of opportunity across the genders and sexualities. I was confused as to how both of those approaches could be reconciled.