Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 January 2010
16:5237307#1
Were you aware that a lot of schools may be closing as a result of some very daft rules set by the Government.
If a school does not close in bad weather and say, just 50%, of pupils are able to turn up, then they are marked down for 50% unauthorised absenses that day.
This goes into the school record and goes against the school when they get an OFSTED. As you know these record are scrutinied in detail by OFSTED when they do a visit.
Whereas if the school closes due to bad weather they get marked 100% attendance, to their credit with OFSTED!
The point has been made therefore that it is in the schools interest to close when there is snow.
How many schools close just for this reason I wonder that might otherwise stay open? Someone only said to me last weekend about how schools seem to close at the drop of a snow flake these days when they never used to. I argued that it was probably because staff have a lot further to travel these days, but now I am not sure.
The point about this was made by the leader of Essex County Council.
Guest 645- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,463
12 January 2010
17:3137312#2
BarryW
What you say is true but does not take into account other Health & Safety issues of accidents that could occur due to schools remaining open and pupils falling or injuring themselves on school property.This coupled with the added risk of parents having to get their child to school due to no buses,taxis etc makes it near impossible for the schools to make a 'right' decision.
Parents need to go to work but can't do that if there are kids at home that need to be cared for and supervised.
Another problem is having enough staff available to attend the school should it remain open.Many teachers live away from their local schools in order not to bump into little Johnnny or hurrah Henrietta.
One solution would be for a national register of teachers so that in bad weather they report to their nearest school to help out.It need not be full on lessons but maybe an interesting video followed by a discussion.Students preparing for exams could use the library for quiet studies and revision.
Another idea is that with many schools being on the internet the teacher could email each child with the days work and ask for a precise report back from the child at the end of the day.
We need to think outside 'the box' on this issue rather than try blame various govt bodies that were set up in good faith in order to ensure our children receive the best possible education available.....regardless of the weather.
Marek
I think therefore I am (not a Tory supporter)
Sue Nicholas- Location: river
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 6,025
12 January 2010
17:3937314#3
River school kept open
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 January 2010
17:4737315#4
Yes there are other considerations to take account of Marek, I agree, but all things being equal rules that make it better for a school to close at the first hint of snow cannot be sensible. Schools simply did not close so readily previously and there would still have been H&S considerations. H&S also does go too far these days.
Brian Dixon
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
12 January 2010
17:5137316#5
barryw only when it suits them,1 child slips on ice/snow compo springs to mind.in this case its better to shut the school than pay out compensation to many.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
12 January 2010
18:1937318#6
We all sip on ice and snow, we have all knocked our head, grazed our elbows and knees. It is part of life and this culture, where people are looking out to sue because of this, is part of what has gone wrong in this country. We need to take more personal responsibility and stop blaming/suing other people. The whole system needs changing.
Are you, Brian, with your comment, defending this culture and the closure of schools at the drop of a hat?
As Sue pointed out River School did not close, are you suggesting that as a result the children there are at greater risk? They stayed open and therefore risked an increase in unauthorised absenses creating a black mark against them with OFSTED. Is that right? should the school have to take that risk or play safe and close? Good for the school for staying open. How many others in that position actually closed because of this rule I wonder.
12 January 2010
18:2337319#7
I heard about that silly rule as well - it just underlines the absurdity of the target- and rule-driven culture that has been created. All common sense and flexibility has been eroded, in Health and Social care as well as Education. And all governments going back to the seventies have eroded university education - it is absolutely outrageous that what used, in my day, to be both a right (as education should be) and a privilege (for - strictly for - those who have the academic ability) is now an expensive treat for those who can afford it. Don't get me started or we will be here all day - everyone should have the opportunity to experience the education appropriate for them, including University education, and Uni education should not be squandered and trivialised by expecting every Tom Dick and Harriet to be suitable for it. Not everyone is academic, not everyone can change a tyre. Horses for courses and free education, no question.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 January 2010
18:5737323#8
i saw some parents on the box the other day mouthing off as to why there childrens school was closed.
i thought to myself then, they would be first to mouth off when one of their offspring fell over and injured him or herself.
i think that the education authorities have got it right on this one.
every penny paid out in claims is money not spent on books etc.
Brian Dixon- Location: Dover
- Registered: 23 Sep 2008
- Posts: 23,940
12 January 2010
20:3437335#9
barryw,no im not defending the policy just stating a point of view from modern day culture.
i can rember going to school at archers court school,with snow drifts as nearly as adouble decker bus.
Guest 674- Registered: 25 Jun 2008
- Posts: 3,391
12 January 2010
21:0637341#10
I realise River was quoted, and yep slips and falls happen
but if we can prevent accidents we should try to do so.
it would have been dangerous for opening astor which was like a sheet of ice on the hill to the entrance.
maybe solving that issue would have helped
12 January 2010
21:1937343#11
I can do little more for the debate but cut and paste a letter I sent to the local press this week:-
'Years ago I recall the County Council used to pay a retainer to farmers who had invested in a snow plough attachment; once a sufficient depth of snow had settled, out they would come to clear the 'B' roads. Not completely, of course, but down to driveable condition, and the council gritters could economically deal with the thin layer remaining in their own time. No more alas; word is that the Treasury is no longer prepared to turn a blind eye to the use of red diesel for highways work, and no farmer is going to keep a tank of road diesel just on the offchance.
Years ago, urban streets were furnished with salt bins, kept stocked by the councils, ostensibly for the use of street sweepers to spread, but in practice a community resource as people cleared their sections of pavement and those of elderly neighbours with it. Again, no more; we can't be trusted with such things these days. One council even warned householders not to clear the pavement - on the grounds that if anyone slipped on the cleared section, the householder would share liability for damages.
I suspect this risk averseness will dominate many people's thinking; if I slip and fall, who can I sue? Who's to blame for the snow? No doubt oleaginous lawyers across the land are already squidging their pudgy damp palms in glee at the sueing opportunities. And as half the country seems paralysed (with many Londoners imagining that those warnings not to travel unless absolutely necessary apply to them) our surrender of personal responsibility to the State seems complete. Wait for the State to clear the snow. Wait for the State to bring you food.'
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 January 2010
21:5637348#12
dear bob
the retainer that you speak of is paid to farmers in france, but listening to truckers that post here, they do not seem able to fulfil their share of the bargain.
i posted on sunday about an interview on bbc news 24 with a govrenment minister that was asked the question about householders being sued after a fall from someone.
she waffled, wriggled and very skilfully failed to answer the question.
no-one in their right mind would carry out their civic duty under those circumstances.
Ross Miller
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
12 January 2010
21:5737349#13
Thanks Bob, one point though is that it is perfectly ok to clear the pavement, if someone tries to sue they have to demonstrate malicious intent on your part, which frankly even with our slightly barmy judges is highly unlikely if not impossible.
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
12 January 2010
22:0237353#14
are you sure about that ross?
somerfields a year or two back cleared the bit right up to the end of their premises.
when customers comlained they were told that the company could be sued if someone fell on the pavement after they had worked on it.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,709
12 January 2010
22:0937354#15
Yes I am sure - I have it from a civil barrister
"Dream as if you'll live forever. Live as if you'll die today." - James Dean
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength,
While loving someone deeply gives you courage" - Laozi
Guest 689- Registered: 10 Sep 2009
- Posts: 102
12 January 2010
23:5737377#16
Re Marek's post about teachers working at other schools - in Kent teachers are meant to report to their nearest school if the one they work at is closed. In fact on Friday at Temple Ewell School we had a couple of teachers who worked at schools in the Canterbury area turn up and offer their services. Not sure if this is a national scheme.
Linda