Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#1
Interesting this technology, where all too often, the cctv camera`s are either criticised because they don`t work, or criticised because they are working and taking away our privacy. Back in 1993, they were very effective in catching the James Bulger killer`s, with a number of them working on that fatal day. They`re in use everyday in shop`s and supermarket`s which you`re not always aware of, but you are being watched. To me, it`s the future, and we`re at the beginning of it all. The generation growing up now will accept it as the rest of the fast moving electronic world we`re in now. Security camera`s all over the big cities, airport`s, dock`s railway station`s/crossing`s now. I note from other posting`s on here that some feel uncomfortable with it all, and I do understand that. But the world moves on, and with soaring crime rate`s, (if that`s to be believed), it must be more cost effective installing cctv`s, than more policemen on the beat? (I do still like to see the traditional copper on the beat by the way, part of our tradition). So, your view`s on cctv`s.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#2
i was originally all in favour of them.
yes they do help after a major crime in indentifying people and gaining evidence.
however in most cases these are not monitored at the time and most low level crime agoes on unchnged.
#3
"But the world moves on" and that's the point, the world isn't moving on. The UK is by quite some distance the most watched country on the planet and yet we are supposed to be one of the most civilised nations on earth. Only here are our civil liberties being trampled on in every way it is possible to do.
Wake up Britain and take your country and freedoms back!
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#4
I have to own up here.
During the last couple of years in which I was Chairman of DDC's Technical Services Committee I accompanied a senior Council officer, at his suggestion, to Kings Lynn to observe their CCTV in action. They had one of the first town centre systems and I was so impressed with what I saw that on the drive back I discussed how we could introduce such a system at nil cost to the ratepayers. It was 'back of a fag packet' stuff but we worked out that by targetting car park security in selected car parks and charging a modest premium in those parks only, then that, plus a saving in vandalism costs, we could introduce a core system. Careful positioning enabled most of the Town Centre through routes to be covered too adding to pedestrian safety.
I managed to get that through committee and approved though there was some opposition. The core scheme opened a month or two after we lost control of DDC at a Whitfield by-election and I had to relinquish my Chairmanship in 1993.
That core scheme has been added to and extended since then, partly fund by Government grant. So you can thank or blame me for Dover getting the initial system. A few points:
1/ The car park charge increase that year was the first time we had no objections because people could see they were getting something for their money, more secure car parks. They also had the choice of some cheaper parks not covered by CCTV.
2/ The system was introduced having regard to privacy. That was a major concern and DDC ensured that a modus operandi was adopted in that respect.
3/ The system did have an impact in reducing crime and vandalism and also providing the police important information. While every camera is/was not monitored 24 hours a day they did all record and as a result could be played back by the police in seeking out clues/information to lead to an arrest. The impact on 'live' crime in progress, alerting and steering police to an incident/wrongdoers is only part of the story.
4/ It is true that some crime get 'displaced' to other areas but that is not always the case. Criminals are amazingly stupid. The deterant effect does happen though it is perhaps not a great as we originally thought it would be.
As it stands now I believe that the system is worthwhile and works well up to a point.
That said I am concerned that 'the survelance state' has now gone too far and we need to reign back intrusion into people's lives. That does not mean dismantelling the CCTV alltogether though.
#5
I think it well proved by now that cctv's are not a real deterrent to crime. As Barry rightly says, most thugs, chavs and crooks are stupid and that is proven by the sheer number of tv shows on our screens demonstrating how mindless idiots misbehave even when being filmed.
So, at best they help the Police track down miscreants, but don't offer a viable alternative to harsher sentencing which might send a more forceful message. It is not possible to remove crime completely, but cctv's clearly do not work as a preventive measure.
Not sure where to begin with GATSO's other than to reaffirm my long held belief they are nothing more than revenue generating equipment.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#6
Sid, my meaning to the world moving on is related to the electronic`s technology which is moving on every year and changing our lives dramatically. I want my privacy, but I just can`t help seeing the future with cctvs in every town and city, with a dramatically reduced crime rate, and just becoming an accepted everyday item as the post box or telephone kiosk today. Imagine a camera put in the Co op store for the first time in the 60s. They`d be an uproar I`m sure at being spied on. Yet here we are today, an everyday part of life in the supermarket and other store`s.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
#7
Thugs and yobs have devised an ingenious method of defeating even the most advanced CCTV system. It is called "the hoodie". By pulling up the "hoodie" they pretty much conceal their faces, leaving them free to be filmed - in complete and unrestricted anonymity - nicking cars and fighting.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#8
Very good point there Rick. So maybe we should ban the hoodie along with the Burkha? Which looks the most uncomfortable and threatning? I know what I think.
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
#9
What is more threatening is a combination of the two, a BURDIE. You can see people tremble when Oliver O'Connor says "watch the burdie"!
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#10
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
#11
Despite how against CCTV I am personally, I must confess that having seen inside Dover's CCTV office I am impressed with just how excellent it is. It's run by very professional people, cameras are obscured so that they cannot see into private dwellings, and the whole set-up is every bit as good as you'd want it to be. I still don't see how it prevents anything; crooks simply get filmed committing crime rather than choosing not to commit the crime which means that CCTV becomes nothing more than a public watching device instead of a crime prevention measure, but that's the flaw with CCTV generally, not locally.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#12
exactly, it is no use to the ordinary victim of crime or anti social behaviour.
events at night in pencester gardens are filmed, no point really, the residents of stembrook can just look out of their windows and watch it all happen.
Guest 655- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 10,247
#13
Rick there have been situations when a crime has been spotted and the criminals are tracked through the town with the police being kept informed of where they are going so they can catch them.
Evidence can also be gathered that aids a prosecution. not all of them successfully hide their identity, as I said criminals are plain stupid.
Guest 690- Registered: 10 Oct 2009
- Posts: 4,150
#14
Tell them that I came, and no one answered.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#15
could have been worse colin, they may have robbed the bank, then gone back to make a deposit in a higher interest account.
barry is right, most criminals are incredibly stupid.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
#16
Like doing a burglary in heavy snow, living four doors away and getting a knock on the door from the coppers.
Totalllllly stupid.
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
#17
my favourite ian was being burgled many years ago, the miscreants were arrested after a tip off from an alert neighbour.
one of them was wearing a stolen watch with my initials on the face.
he claimed to the arresting officer it was his.
when asked what the initials stood for, it took him the best part of 5 minutes to think up a name that fitted the initials.
inicdentally him and his colleagues all got off because the court cocked up the paperwork.
Guest 672- Registered: 3 Jun 2008
- Posts: 2,119
#18
PAPER WORK, that sounds about right Howie.
How many prats have got away with it because of the PAPER
WORK or HUMAN RIGHTS?
grass grows by the inches but dies by the feet.
