Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Not a very pleasant topic I must admit. But as the trial of Anders Breivik started yesterday I thought I would make some reference to it in case anyone wants to comment. We had saturation coverage live on the 24 hour news channels as this event began and of course all the main bulletins led with the story. Exhaustive coverage of someone who is essentially a monster of modern civilization. He smiled, he waved, he gave a nazi salute in utter defiance, and above all, showed no remorse of any kind
He admits to doing it, the authorities know he did it...but despite all that this guy gets world wide exposure for his insane criminal acts, and is clearly revelling in it.
Look at this picture. These are the cold eyes that witnessed up close the brutal assasination of kids enjoying a summer break on a peaceful island. These are the uncaring eyes of the individual who pulled the trigger endless amounts of times...shooting the already wounded in the back of the head.
77 young people died in total.
Today he takes to the stand. The television channels here are NOT going to show his speech from the dock, so we have to be grateful for small mercies but should this guy be getting this level of exposure. He smiles regularly, cares not a jot for the victims or their families, is as guilty as hell...so why are we going through this process. Experts cant decide if he is insane or not.
I have always spoken against the death penalty, but in this case one would be sorely tempted to re-consider.
Guest 698- Registered: 28 May 2010
- Posts: 8,664
The process is merely to decide whether he spends the rest of his life in jail or in a secure mental hospital.
I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
Guest 710- Registered: 28 Feb 2011
- Posts: 6,950
I haven't been watching, but yes, I have seen something of this. I don't know how the Norwegian legal system operates, but usually when it is time for the accused to speak it is 'all over bar the shouting.'
His chances of acquittal are the same as the chances his victims had.
Funny, though, PaulB. That those who do not have killing in the front of their mind often have it at the back.
Ignorance is bliss, bliss is happiness, I am happy...to draw your attention to the possible connectivity in the foregoing.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
i won't watch it, find the whole thing distasteful, as paul says how are we allowing this bloke to promote himself whilst the families of the victims look on.
regarding sentencing i heard that the maximum sentence in norway is 21 years with a possible 30% remission, however there are complications if they decide that someone is still a danger to the public at the end of their sentence.
Guest 683- Registered: 11 Feb 2009
- Posts: 1,052
Glad to hear that his ramblings will not be broadcast but I wonder why we have to know the details anyway. I was struck with a similar thought over the coach crash that killed the Belgian children the other week.
These are undoubtedly terrible tragedies for those involved and connected but is it world news worthy?
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
Well I hope its 21yrs for each of his victims, that way he will rot in jail until the end of his sorry life on this planet.
Guest 640- Registered: 21 Apr 2007
- Posts: 7,819
Yes the horrific distaste goes on. One judge it seems has called for the death penalty, no doubt more to come on that. But Breivik this morning was scheduled I believe to speak for 30 minutes but his outpourings went on for a full hour and a half while the court just sat quietly and listened. The worldwide media wanted to broadcast this, which I suppose is understandable in some ways, but the Norwegian government ruled against it despite approaches. Probably just as well as we dont want this guy justifying his actions on global TV and inspiring someone else to take up his particular gauntlet.
He is glorifying in his deeds and says he wants to be acquitted..yet says he would have no problem doing the same thing over again. Imagine letting him out into society. It must be dreadful for the families watching this guy smirk his way through proceedings.
Guest 656- Registered: 13 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,262
The death penalty is what this guy deserves, nothing less.
I notice he managed a teary eye for himself at one point, but none for his victims.
Jan Higgins
- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
That judge has been kicked off the trial according to 5 news.
I hope this evil man rots away for life wherever he ends up.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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Terry Nunn
- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
Unfortunately Norwegian prisons are more like a holiday camp. Comfy cells with tv and internet access (albeit controlled access), competitive sport with the warders and weekend conjugal vistis to name but a few.
Now consider if an American had been among the victims. USA would demand his extradition and trial in America where he would be shackled for 23 hours a day.
Iv'e always been against the death penalty on the grounds that no evidence can be 100%. In recent years even cast iron forensic evidence has been overturned.
In Breivik's case I fail to see why great expense should be incurred in keeping him in a holiday camp for the rest of his life.
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Guest 663- Registered: 20 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,136
His face shows no remorse and he said he would do it again, sane or insane this man can NEVER be free life is for life, he is an evil man.
Guest 641- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 2,335
I was listening to not only families of the slaughtered children, but also the man in the street in Norway this morning on the radio and the majority of those asked their reply was 'that he is not of this world, he is living on another planet'.
They should lock this murderer away for a long time, let us hope that he will end his life in jail and hopefully not a comfortable one.
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Had a peep on the Net - after opening this thread - to see what it's all about .
It seems he didn't make a Nazi salute, but raised two hand-cuffed arms, which could mean anything.
My research into the case brought me to the following piece of information, quoted from the Guardian:
"He is not claiming to have acted out of "self defence", as originally reported, but using a defence under section 47 of the Norwegian penal code, which states: "No person may be punished for any act that he has committed in order to save someone's person or property from an otherwise unavoidable danger when the circumstances justified him in regarding this danger as particularly significant in relation to the damage that might be caused by his act."
I also found that Breivik claims the people he killed were not non-political children, but children not under the age of 14 from affiliate families of the Norwegian Labour party, who he claims is responsible for allowing immigration of Muslims into Norway on a large scale.
The debate on his trial is certainly not that of a mad man, he is not mentally insane. His defence in court to justify his actions is based on his personal perception of danger to his country and on an article of the Norwegian law, as well as his previous study of the victims he chose to kill, to annul the accusation of indiscriminate killing.
In other words, he claims he did not kill indiscriminately, but selectively.
His great crime, in my view, is to have brushed aside the law of (in my words) conversing and expressing his views peacefully, and to have chosen violence in its ultimate form.
We should reject violence as a means of bringing home a message, starting in small things, such as beating up, punching, and even threatening.
We only live mortal life once on this beloved Earth of ours, that is given to us to enjoy, and when expressing views, we must make use of reasonable arguments, and not treasure recourse to violence.
Terry Nunn- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 4,316
You obviously missed the salute then Alexander D.
Photo - Scottish Daily Record
However, to me that looks like a Black Power salute. Not I assume what he intended. How strange!
Terry
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Perhaps it means something else in that cosmos he has created inside his head.
Guest 686- Registered: 5 May 2009
- Posts: 556
This supposed human is wasting time, money and, above all, oxygen. He should be "disposed of". Whatever his punishment it won't be harsh enough. Nor will it bring back the 77 people he murdered in cold blood.
Phil West
If at first you don't succeed, use a BIGGER hammer!!
Guest 696- Registered: 31 Mar 2010
- Posts: 8,115
Clearly I was looking at another picture with him handcuffed and hadn't come across the one above. Again, it could mean anything. I don't watch TV, Terry, but it still doesn't seem a Nazi salute.
To my knowledge, the death sentence doesn't exist in Norway, Phil.
I'm not sure what the maximum penalty is there, but in my research last night it appeared that one judge was taken from the case for posting on his facebook that the death penalty should be used on him. It was a lay-judge, assigned to work with the two proper judges.
Analysing further, it would seem that in Norway, freedom of expression is highly prized, and perhaps the Norwegians want all to know that to express your views there is legal, that there is no justification for using or advocating violent methods in pursuit of an agenda in order to make oneself noticed.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,883
With regard to the salute, maybe if you watched the TV news pictures you would have understood more.
Yesterday's posts #7 and #11 had already mention the dismissal of the judge.
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I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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