Big day for germany

• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  1 May 2011     13:08104196
  #1       report
  under european union rules germany has to open its doors to east european immigration from today.
  
  they are anticipating a million from their neighbours poland and many others from other member states.
  
  this is causing unrest among the current indigenous working population who fear for their jobs.
  
  a lot of the influx will be tradespersons such as electricians, plumbers and carpenters.
  
  at present the current pay rates for the above are between 10 and 30 euros an hour, the rates are expected to come down to between 3 and 5 euros per hour when the new workers arrive in force.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  1 May 2011     15:21104217
  #2       report
  It will last as long as it lasts, until the Germans get fed up, which they probably are anyway.
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  1 May 2011     20:06104259
  #3       report
  social unrest is on the cards here, the unions anticipate the figure to be 3 miilion incomers in a short time against a backdrop of cuts in public services.
  
  germans pay 5 % of their income as a reunification tax with the old democratic republic and are up in arms over the bail out to greece. the industrialists love it, a supply of cheap labour without them having to pay out for the extra health and education etc.
  
  not forgetting that the germans are aware of our esteemed last government predicting only 40,000 coming here when the barriers were lifted.
• Guest 664

  • Registered: 23 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 1,039
  1 May 2011     22:12104281
  #4       report
  It was the burden of Reparations from the First World War (which would have continued until as late as 1989) which partly fed the rise of the Nazis.
  
  You have to say there is a limit as to how far tolerance can be pushed. Many Germans perceive themselves to be creaking under a burden which grows ever heavier. At the moment any backlash is tempered by a hangover of war guilt, and one hopes that they can absorb this latest influx without too much friction.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  2 May 2011     00:23104282
  #5       report
  The Germans know full well that they are not guilty, and are not considered as such. How can a 15 year old girl, for example, be guilty of something that she never did?
  They do not have to take in the influx mentioned here, they have already taken in influxes non-stop ovger the past decades. Germany is not the land of others to decide over what they HAVE to do!
  
  The Second World War ended in 1945, and the Germans are the ones who should decide if 3 million people have to create a new influx in the year 2011, or whether these 3 million people should be told to sort their own life out in their own country. It's not within the right of the flaming EU to destroy other people's lives and to flush out their country with millions of people from other countries.
  
  About one third of Germany was taken away after the end of WW1 and WW2 as it is, creating 10 meillion German refuges.
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  2 May 2011     09:34104307
  #6       report
  germany has been made to be over tolerant in taking in people from all over the world since the last war, many germans felt guilt over the actions of the past generation.
  
  that time has long gone and their patience has been stretched to the limit, a close aie to mrs merkel has warned of a resurgence of the far right.
• Jan Higgins

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 5 Jul 2010
  • Posts: 13,894
  2 May 2011     11:22104324
  #7       report
  I think the open door policy from the EU will be changed at some time when those from the poorer countries reach saturation point in the more affluent countries.
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  I try to be neutral and polite but it is hard and getting even more difficult at times.
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• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  2 May 2011     11:47104332
  #8       report
  will be too late then jan, social cohesion will have broken down by then.
  
  companies looking for cheap labour will no longer have to locate in eastern europe, the cheap labour will be available in the west.
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  2 May 2011     12:50104347
  #9       report
  Jan, try reading the figures: 3 million people are expected to go to Germany to work from May 1, not all in one go, but still.
  
  These are people like plumbers, electricians and wot not all.
  Add these figures to the millions of people already emigrated to Germany from the East of Europe and from some other continents, be it as seasonal workers or whatever.
  
  Try figuring out how much more unemployment will hit Germany, which already languishes under an unemployment figure similar to Britain, or even worse.
  
  And consider that cheap labour (let's say 210 euros an hour to replace a leaking tap or burst tube rather than 30 euros an hour), will put hundreds of thousands of Germnas out of work.
  
  Their mortgages or rent will not be payable, they will do less shopping, won't go on holiday, argue with the wife, get divorced...
  
  Saturation point, Jan, will be when people have had almightily enough, and then...
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 696

  • Registered: 31 Mar 2010
  • Posts: 8,115
  2 May 2011     12:51104349
  #10       report
  Sorry, that should be 10 euros an hour.
  Chanters, Drums and Drones Potty Time http://youtu.be/99fMqpjnXYA
  Rule Britannia!
  Kent First http://youtu.be/04F3mAP3fV4 Keep banging on http://youtu.be/qYCU_SKmkGQ
• Guest 664

  • Registered: 23 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 1,039
  4 May 2011     21:39104783
  #11       report
  It is of course correct to say that Germany has been forced t be over-tolerant. My point about war guilt also holds good - of course it is unfair that young generations have to pay for the sins of their grandfathers and great grandfathers. but was it not ever thus?
  
  The fear is that there will be a 'ketchup burst' when patience finally snaps and surge in support for the Far Right one day if endless waves of migration continue.
  
  Western Germany - roughly half the area of the 1937 borders - had to absorb 12 million people in the immediate aftermath of the war alone. A historian once made the point that repatriating these populations to areas which their forebears left 12 centuries earlier had as much justification as sending the English back to live in Denmark and Northern Germany.
  
  To use another analogy, it would be the equivalent of the entire population on Wales, Ireland (North and South) and Scotland moving to England within the space of a year or two.
  
  And that's justthe start.
  
  Add to that three million emigrants from the former DDR even prior to the Wall coming down, plus all those who have moved since, many millions of Turkish and other Gastarbeiter, Germany's share of non-EU asylum seekers, non-German immigration from Eastern Europe...
  
  Then they have assimilated millions of ethnic Germans from across Europe and even areas in Asia in the former USSR like Kazakhstan.
  
  I suspect they will simply soak up this next wave too, but people are certainly getting fed up, partly because in such an ecologically-minded country they are simply unhappy at the continuing pressure on the environment and quality of life.
• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  4 May 2011     21:50104785
  #12       report
  interesting and informative post andrew, just one issue i must take you to task on.
  
  the guest workers from turkey, yugoslavia etc were invited in mainly by car manufacturers to make up for the labour shortage, lived in poor conditions and were not a drain on scant resoures.
  
  all very different from many of the people the state was told to take.
  
  you are right that when push comes to shove the people will look to a leader that understands what people are thinking.
• Guest 698

  • Registered: 28 May 2010
  • Posts: 8,664
  4 May 2011     21:58104789
  #13       report
  That was true at the time Howard but since then most of them and their offspring have leaked into the mainstream economy.
  I'm an optimist. But I'm an optimist who takes my raincoat - Harold Wilson
• howard mcsweeney1

  • Location: Dover
  • Registered: 12 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 62,352
  4 May 2011     22:03104792
  #14       report
  that surprise me peter i thought they were all on work permits that expired when it suited the government.
  
  in later years the british and irish building workers were soon booted out when they were not needed anymore.
• Guest 664

  • Registered: 23 Mar 2008
  • Posts: 1,039
  4 May 2011     22:12104795
  #15       report
  I was not making some moral judgement on the type of populations invited into the country, Howard, merely pointing out some of the types of immigration Germany has absorbed.
  
  Many ethnic Germans were invited into the West as a result of West German government policy as well as Gastarbeiter, with whom the clue is in the name - guest workers.