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  The point Howard is that the government owns shares in these 2 entities - like any other limited liability concern they raise money either through issuing shares, issuing commercial paper (bonds) or borrowing at commercial rates. The taxpayer will only have to put their hand in their pocket if the banks need further bailing out or they act as a lender. The lobbyist story is old beer, the truth is losses are down on a year ago and certainly in the case of Lloyds if the economy picks up even slightly the state should be able to offload the shares at a profit sometime in the next year or so; RBS will take a bit longer as it is still suffering from the regime of Fred the Shred

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