I am so glad that...
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30 September 2012
....Milliminor is Labour leader after seeing his Andrew Marr interview. Even as someone who utterly despises the Labour Party for its unbroken record of economic and social failure and wishing them only ill-will as I do, I was squirming with embarrassment watching that interview.
....Milliminor is Labour leader after seeing his Andrew Marr interview. Even as someone who utterly despises the Labour Party for its unbroken record of economic and social failure and wishing them only ill-will as I do, I was squirming with embarrassment watching that interview.
I have never heard any politician use so many words (including many a... ummm and errr....) while saying absolutely nothing at all.
There is an essential art every politician must learn and that is how to not answer a question. Some manage it well, even sometimes leaving the viewer thinking the question was answered! Milliminor failed utterly, like a drunken boxer he telegraphed his punches so even the most politically naive knew he was not going to answer with the first few words uttered after just about every question. Time after time he said 'Let me explain...' he didn't
I have to say that I am also pleased the Balls-up is their Shadow Chancellor.
This obnoxious little man was Gordon Brown's right hand man and at the centre of every mistake Brown made. He tried telling his conference that they did not overspend but 'invested'.... His conference may have believed him, or at least the very few intelligent people there may have pretended to, but no-one else would have.
His idea of investing is the sort of thing investment advisers would rightly get struck off for advising. It would be like advising someone earning £1,000 per month to 'invest' £1,500 per month with the excess being added to the credit card and all the 'advised investments' failing to return a penny. It is no surprise that the longest ever period of Labour rule with 'I banned boom and bust' Gordon Brown in charge led to the biggest ever economic bust,
They must never again be allowed to get their sticky incompetent hands on our economy.
- There is no doubting that Gordon Brown is in trouble. Although an honest john of a politician he has in simple terms two major handicaps. One is the longevity of the Labour Government, time kills all, and secondly he sufers from a distinct lack of charisma that stops him having wider non-party appeal. He is dour Im afraid, smile though he might and try though he might...even recently I heard a reporter on the BBC sighing for the lack of Blair camera magic.
It seems inevitable threrefore that he will lose the next election. Although clearly he himself is not giving up and is fighting back with various speeches. His recent trip to Afghanistan photographed well. One of his best ever media expose's I would say. Could he pull off a miracle? Has Dave C peaked too soon? - i have noticed recently a chap called john denham is making big speeches on behalf of labour, supporting the PM all the way.
he comes across as having the common touch that the electorate like.
could be he his positioning himself ready for a takeover when
a vacancy arises. - Yes I think that John Denham is good and yes has the right touch..I also think Allan Johnson also has something of the potential to have mass appeal. Latest from him today is his move to cut(at last) police paperwork down to a minimum. People in the service and elsewhere have been complaining for years about the complex nature of arrest /stop and search/ forms and so on. So an improvement will be welcomed and will free up man hours.
Just when you think Brown is lost at sea he resurfaces like a Goliath! - I am not getting into tit for tat on my blog - leave that to the members club, so any comment posts in this section from me will be few and far between.
I do however have some additional information regarding Brown's cuts of 9.3%.
The plans he and Darling were/are working on are focussed largely on capital spending projects such as hospitals and schools (Dover's hospital...). Few of his planned cuts are where they really need to be, in the bloated revenue budget.
I personally would prefer to limit any hit to capital spending to the minimal possible and mainly to wasteful and worthless projects.
Deceitful as ever.
I have to say that my figure of 20% cuts does not look at all difficult given the half-baked 9.3% figure from Brown. - I think even my 9 year old daughter realises that you can't spend money you haven't got and there is now a need to economise.
Cuts is a harsh term and is used by politicians to stress a point and deal a blow to the opposition as if wielding an Errol Flynn type sword.
Brown decided, rightly in mine and other world leaders opinions, to spend his way out of the crisis.It appears to have worked but we( society)now have to pay off that debt and burden.
Barry asks:
Should charges be introduced in hospitals to cover the cost of food?
No we should not charge people who are already vunerable due to illness for the food they require in order to 'get better'.
Should there be a nominal fee for a GP consultation for those who can afford it?
Yes everyone between the age of 18-60 in full time employment could pay £10 for each appointment. It would hopefully prevent missed appointments etc.
Do we really need a target of 50% of school leavers going to University?
Yes because our future lies with the younger generation and the better educated they are the better chance we have of them not making the same mistakes that we have made.
Are tax credits really cost effective and should people with an income of £50,000 really get them?
No, I have posted elsewhere on this subject and I believe it's a policy that will,sooner or later.
, be introduced.
Should Child Benefit be universal?
Only to parents earning £50k or less
Should third and/or subsequent children generate more Child Benefit?
Yes as its important that all the children in a family are treated equally.
Should Government encourage greater provision of private provision for ill-health and disability?
Why when we already pay our national insurance stamp? But obviously if you can afford a medicare system you should be free to contribute and make provisions so long as it does not encroach upon the NHS to provide and train all its Doctors Nurses etc.
I find the term "lying" offensive and believe that Brown only wants to do his best for the country.He may be mistaken but devious? I think not. Obviously he must with his Cabinet examine all the options so to review govt spending with Darling was prudent.whether it will have ever even made a Green Paper is another question...but he must look at all the avenues.
- the bits i have seen have not left the leadership in a good light.
the top brass seemed to be coming up with new policies as they went along.
the tax on high value homes idea was ludicrous. there was no indication that it would be based on ability to pay.
a retired person in a nice part of london may have purchased a family home 30 or 40 years ago, house price inflation taking to a high figure today.
i feel that are panicing about losing dienchanted labour voters to the smaller parties.
- Well yes its been a strange week for the LibDEms. I dont think its won them many new friends, because as BarryW says they have been largely ignored, but nevertheless one has to admire the sheer effort Leader Nick Clegg puts in. He certainly sideswipes the establishment with a sort of youthful gusto but people like Gordon Brown dont appear to take him seriously. The anti Brown barbs just drop off the PM leaving him entirely undented. However he has a sort of tenacious appeal does Mr Clegg so it should pay off in the longer run, but for now most of the population dont even know who he is.
Yes the Vince Cable bubble burst this week. Often heralded by the media as the guru of financial gurus, he has proved to be just like the rest of us..fallible, very fallible. WE all wanted to see him as our kindly uncle, coming with buckets of cash to save us from a fate worse than death - ie going broke. But its not to be. We wanted to believe it, we needed to believe it, but alas he suffers from high finance frailty just like the rest of us. - I missed out one matter that also caused them a lot of trouble, the student loan issue.
I cant help but think that they take themselves too seriously in the sense they seem to delude themselves that their 17/18% in the polls is going to get them into the position to influence Government, but that cant be further from the truth.
This leads them to make policy pronouncements and argue them as if it is a matter of life and death. A more relaxed and realistic approach in tune with what the public might expect after the next election could see them actually being taken more seriously, oddly enough. - First time I have looked on here------
- We, the electorate, are the embarrassment. We are simply too trusting. We hear what we wish to hear, breathe a sigh of releif and carry on.
This upcoming general election is perhaps our last chance to bring about political change.
There have been many calls and 'promises' in recent years over much needed change to the political make-up and process that is yet fit only for the 19th centuary.
We the people should engage with this process right now. We should look to the other smaller partys or to our own local Independents to bring oubout change now at the ballot box and not wait for those who think themselves ordained to occupy Parliament; one one side or the other to "vote for xmas".
This IS our democracy and we want it back. - ...P.S.
At the 2005 election 32.4% of the electorate in Dover did not vote.
Add this to the legion of young first time voters there is a great deal we the people could do to change the face and the future of politics in Britain.
We either ask those habitually elected to change or by taking the lead make our DEMAND for change a reality.
If we cannot do this who can? One stranger foisted on us by another stranger from a party that does not know you exist but at election time.
"Vote for option 4 or more." - Yes hopefully people will engage with this election, I have a feeling they will. It could be the biggest election in years because people have been shaken out of their complacency by the stuff on their TV newscreens every day for months. We all know whats happened to peoples savings, to the value of their homes, to their jobs, so maybe this election will engage like never before.
Gordon Brown in this mornings interview with Andrew Marr as mentioned above, had a tough time of it. He had to overcome the very bad situation left him by an interview Alastair Darling gave to one of the Sunday Newspapers saying Labour had "lost the will to live". Thats an unbelievable situation to find oneself in before a live conference interview on the BBC...having been shot in the foot by his own Chancellor before he even starts. So Im afraid the interview situation never recovered for the Prime Minister. He needs a big conference. - i could not believe the stupid comments from the chancellor.
welcome to oudies.
the dover turn out is much the same as around the country, we do not normally get parties outsid ethe big three standing general elections here.
what is option 4? - Thank you Howard McSweeney.
Option 4, will mean different things in different parts of the country (Britain, I mean).
In Dover at the 2005 GE the fourth was UKIP and the fifth Independent. This is exactly what I mean. (sourch....bbc.)
With New-Labour slightly down in favour of the Tories.
The Lib-Dem conference is over and we have our opinions of that.
Labour now and so on.
Will or has any of the big three partys said more than. Give me a job? We shall see.
We should, I think, keep in mind that we do elect a whole Parliament and not a just a winner Which at present means that the winner will be either Red or Blue.
It is that we should seek to change, and not look to the professional, career politician.but to another who will not have this nostalgia with the status-quo. - fair comment oudeis, our independent was our victor from on here though.
most people would agree with you about getting shot of the the two main ones, most of our mp's have never had a proper job.
they leave university, go into politics, then eventually go into the commons.
we are fortunate here, our siting mp was chief engineer on a cross channel ferry and his rival has worked and is still working in the legal field, therefore they have experience of the real world.
independents have no chance unless there is a massive local issue that unites the electorate.
just as an add on, i read recently that the new intake of blue candidates that will be expected to succeed next may, are mainly made up of the same, university, research for mp's etc.
no doubt the the first thing they will do is vote themselves a rise in salary and pension. - Actualy Howard the new intake of Conservative MPs is largely made up of people from commerce and the Forces. Yes, there are too many 'professional politicians' nevertheless and I am not too far from you in that respect.
I would suggest that the opposite to what has been suggested is better.
The minor Parties are made up of extremist/single issue obsessives of one kind of the other (not necessarily a critisism, that). UKIP and the Greens being the two biggest single issue groupings with the BNP and various other extreme left wing groups making up the extremist elements.
My point is that the big Parties are each coalition covering a spectrum of opinion and people from varied backgrounds. There are some common values that each Party shares within itself. But you will find little difference between those broadly on the left of the Conservatives and the right of Labour (and many LibDems).
I would suggest that politics is about two things, power and influence. If UKIP members wanted the power to achieve its objectives and the influence to do so then they should join the Conservatives and influence the direction of policy and Government that way. There is little difference in my view of the EU and that of UKIP, for instance and I am far from being a minority in the Conservative Party. After the next election the Conservative will be more Eurosceptic than ever, every survey shows this.
Likewise the Greens would be better off joining the party that most accords with their broader views, Libdems perhaps, Labour for the more left wing as many of them are. When inside the 'broader tent' they can be in a position to have much bigger impact on policy and Government direction than by peeing in from the outside.
The political parties are no more than a reflection of our society and their members as a whole and its no good whining and moaning from outside - get involved. - I might just add a short post-script to my post below. No-one wants the BNP nasties in their ranks.... or the other extreme left wing groups either. They are not the acceptable face of politics.
- Speaking of the BNP I see they are scheduled to be on Question Time on Oct 22, as I understand it this is the scheduled date. This is one heck of a leap forward for them and not terribly palatable. I see Jack Straw, Government Minister, has agreed to take part. It will certainly be a 'must see' but perhaps for all the wrong reasons. I wont miss it.
- BW & each, good morning.
We each have a vote large numbers do not vote,, many of those who vote do so without 'reward' ; who they have voted for does not go forward..
All this brings an easy victory for either of the two main partys and fills Parliament with both.
For natural Conservatives and Labour supporters this is all well and good; except that one or the other could be in opposition 'too' long.
However, few of those elected represent the wishes of a majority of their constituencies.
A simple 50:50 chance of government and a 100% chance of filling nearly half the seats in the commons does not a vibrant democracy make.
Must we, the electorate, await the largesse of these two partys?
Or could we, should we; as I attempt to do, force change. Force change by not encouraging the usual suspects ?
I would aver that our (so called) democracy is in fact a Plurocracy; where money is ALL.
Big changes can come from influencing small numbers of MPs; who are too often motivated by personal enrichment. The very cause, I argue, of our present sorry pass.
Whereas any attempt to change the face of politics from the ground up is doomed.
It dawned on me that if those who do not vote DID vote and picked for instance your local Independent of 2005.
Change would come, you would still have a local voice at Westminster but the power & riches ties to the status-quo would not be there.
- I just think it should be made law to vote with a fine if you do not of 14days in Jail,in some parts of the world the public die trying to vote,but over here lots will not even move away from their T.V.sets.I said this at the last G/E on the stage of the town hall after I did not get in,and still think the same today.
- VM,
The state of politics today only redoubles the need for politics to be taken more seriously.
The Media and major political partys' talk about the outcome as already settled and this cannot help in getting people out to vote.
But in the absence of compulsion efforts still should be made.
To a degree the actions and inactions of those habitually housed in Parliament has done much to encourage more people to vote.
And more ready to choose from further down the list. - i have recived today a copy of cheerfull charlies book of jokes,with an artical from dave [the conman cameron] on the side back page.it brought a smile to my face on this rather cool cloudy day.did anyone else get one.
- If I can get the funding i will need to stand again then I will .
- VM,
I wish you well; whether you do or do not stand.
But I hope that you do.
Come the GE there is unlikely to be less confusion about who to vote for among the electorate, 50% or so of whom did not bother to vote last time and the young who have not had the chance to vote before.
The situation cries out for an alternative.
Any way it is viewed there is a lot to play for. Both Parliament and Government have both got too, too cosy and 'politics' goes on without due regard to the populace.
It WILL continue this way unless we reclaim our democracy back from the 'usual suspects'. - The choice, whatever you say, at the next election will be Conservative or Labour. Simple.
The election is about governance and what programme for Government is needed by the UK. Supporting small Parties leaves people disenfranchising themselves from the real important questions. As I say, small parties are for the extremists, single issue obsessives and the stubborn who cannot and will not compromise as part of the larger picture I believe all sensible people do not want an Italian style political mess with lots of these small groupings horse trading after an election to try to form a Government.
Our way is to agree a programme for Government within the main 'broad church' parties before an election, so people know what kind of Government they are voting for. Clean cut and sensible. that is why the two main parties dominate and why it is right and proper they should. If you dont like what the Parties are doing/saying then join the one you most approve of and influence it from the inside.
So, Vic - you want to waste more money yet again on a daft ego trip. - Barry it might just stop the blues 600+last time 1000+ this time,lets just wait and see .
- BW,
Forgive me but you miss the point.
Democracy lives or dies by what Parliament consists of.
Things did indeed work fairly well your way once.
Since the heady days you allude to in such a strident yet nostalgic manner, many things have changed.
We now have professional politicians,
We now have politically aware boundry alterations.
We now have two main partys virtually indistinguishable from each other. Slickly spun both.
We now have few debates.
We now have huge majorities from less than 30% of the popular vote.
That last point is one where VM and smaller partys can drag us to a more considerate and considering Parliament.
It is not so much that one of only two [or three] partys WILL win through. It is the fact that elected MPs are side lined from government work where the jobs are done by unelected peers or old-pals. The MPs are there only to nod through legislation.
It is the state and make-up of Parliament that condemns us to the constant barrage of lies and spin.
Do we live in a democratic Britain or some plutocratic Labconia? - barryw,four words for you,lib/dems,hung parliment.need i say any more.
- max, that would be the worse of all worlds and nothing would be more undemocratic to have the Party with the smallest vote dictating the outcome of an election.
Oudels - I certainly do not miss any point. Much of what you say is simplistic idealistic nonsense. Anyone who produces as lazy an analysis of the political parties as to claim the main two are 'virtually indistinguishable' destroys their own credability. - barry
you are a political animal, most people are not. they do not see any ideological differences anymore.
i do not see that many actually, you mention about less state intrusion under the blues, maybe so, not enough to ignite the interest of the general public.
you seem to forget the scandals that have enveloped the commons and lords recently, the public have not.
there has been no charges brought, no heartfelt apologies or promises of not being naughty in the future.
i certainly have no plans to vote for the big 3 this time, i have the right to register a protest vote and intend to do so.
i will not be alone in this. - Good for you HOWARD you know where to put your cross then.
- Howard - it is true the days of one Party being wedded to that nationalisation madness have gone and that is for the better.
Labour though are still true to their Liberal/left roots with their top-down Government that believes in interfering in every aspect of our lives. Their solution to every problem remains legislation, red tape, compulsion and spending. They are just being a little cleverer than the old left nutcases in the way they attempt to take control of businesses.
The contrast to the Conservatives could not be clearer with smaller 'minimalist' government and the dissemination of power, ownership, control and influence back to the individual. - Good morning gentle folk.
Power rests now in the hands of only a few individuals at present. Just not your sort BW.
Too many unelected and unaccountable among them.
Protest votes?
Why not this time around the protest leads to the sending of somebody other than the usual suspects to Parliament.
Parliament has little to with the laws that are passed and much else politics wise.
This will stay the same if the only choice is between Red or Blue. - Oudels, I would agree that there are too many unaccountable individuals at present and that has to change. Cameron has a lot of proposals on just that, cutting Quangos, less Government, the localist agenda and so on.
You will not change it through mere protest, the economic situation is too serious to mess around and must be dealt with. We cannot afford to get a load of single issue fanatics and extremists in Parliamen with no cohesive and comprehensive programme for Government. - BW,
I had hoped my notions were ones of Hope and not of some Fear or other.
Who is to say, at this time, that the ballot papers will be a rehash of the past?
With the state of Politics at present. Why should those committed to democracy who have not put themselves forward before be put off?
I invisage and hope that around the country such people will put themselves on the ballot paper and offer we-the-people a real alternative to Red and Blue.
My aim is not to destroy democracy but, in one fell swoop, to bring about a more represntative Parliament and to break the stranglehold so few have over the vote of so many. - Evening each,
I did not watch the speech today, so I searched online for the text. I found it at the BBC and was half way through it before I realised that it was his 2008 speech.
All sorts of promises there though; of he and his party doing things better making sure he got value for money out of every pound spent. This was before the MPs expenses came out.
I bet he had a promise for that too this year. - Good morning each.
Defecit.
What goes around comes around, you say.
So WAR is the only answer.
Afghanistan,
We have nothing to fear but fear itself.
WIN is only a matter of definition.
We fear what 'they' may do. But what are we doing?
Future conflics?
While yet we answer might with might the armed forces will ever be a good (if maybe short) career. Is WAR the only thing that sets the human apart from the beast?
OUR broken Society.
Simply..."It's the rich what gets the pleasure, it's the poor what gets the blame..."
Fraudsters in Parliament verses street crime?
Mending our politics.
OUR politics? Not so. Their politics rather.
We-the-people, hold the power. Only if by not voting and voting for the usual suspects is the power surrendered to career politicians who are all more message and massage than meaningful motion toward a better society and a better world.
They broke it we must fix it.
Parliament MUST in the future be more People-power than party promises and cross-party collusion.
More health enabling than sickness tending.
If OUR power is not to be given back to us then we must take it back.
What is the point of repaying the defecit for things to go on as before?
"Vote for option 4 or more." - It was very interesting to hear the comments on Question Time last night from the panellists particularly historian David Starkey and others who reminded us all of the long winded disasters that have taken place in Afghanistan over the years. The Russians put 10 years into it and got exactly nowhere at all and there are some signs we are heading into the same morass of treacle and will probably need a lifelong committment. Starkey even went back as far as Alexander the Great who it seems made little or no progress either...I will have to take Starkeys word for that.
The Americans were featured in an excellent report on BBCTV yesterday. Frontrank reporting of the old school with the reporter in the thick of the action with the troops . While with them, one American was shot in an exchange with the Taliban, shot in the chest. It wasnt fatal, but it was all too real.
US Echo company have pushed further into the Helmond region than the British troops have or did. So their successes have been better. There may be more of them but their equipment looks much the same as that of British troops. Im not sure if this equipment shortfall thing is just political positioning - Goodmorning each.
PaulB, yes the professor had a whale of a time.
The Spartans too new the wisdom of NOT warring with the same people more than twice. For, from then on you are training the opposition. - I like David Starkey too, a real character, dont always agree with him but generally I do.
PaulB - the comments about inadequate equipment is coming from inside the armed forces, its not political, big or small p. They have some superb anti mine equipment, excellent armour protection, far better than we have and many more choppers per man deployed.
The overall numbers is also a big factor enabling to hold territory where we could not.
Apart from that the real problem for the British forces is the poor political leadership. Note the link to the RAF 'blonde bombshell' on another thread.
Cameron said yesterday that he will form a War Cabinet, a clear step in the right direction and indication of the political will and leadership to deal with the problem. I hope and trust that the 'hearts and minds' operation will be part of the War Cabinet thinking because it is in that where the resolution really comes. - HOWARD
Sadly our Barryw still doesn't recognise that. there will be a long list of people doing just like you and it could have an effect on the outcome in Dover and far wider - Goodmorning each,
keith,,
Just what effect there will be depends on how each constituency takes to this 'boycott'. The idea, to my mind, is not as before to 'protest' for the sake of protest BUT to seek out or become a viable Independent candidate, one you intend to send to Parliament in place of the usual party-badman.
And yes, I for one wish this sort of thing to go on all over the country. Not anti this or that but to be whole-heartedly pro-public.
With 'EU expansion' and much more NOW is the time to strike a blow for we-the-people. - I cant myself see any real advantage in wasting your vote. We have had independents in the House of Commons before and I cant see what they ever accomplish other than a temporary kick in the snot to the previously sitting MP. The case that springs to mind might be the Hamiltons. I say the Hamiltons as the wife seemed to run the show, with the chap as weak MP material, whose first name escapes me for the moment.
TV personality Martin Bell, the man in the white suit, was immensely popular, stood against Hamilton and dislodged him from his safe seat. As a gesture like that, where the sitting MP has become..ermmm a tad weird, it might be justified. But even that is the short term and is just gesture politics.
So no, my view is dont waste your vote on a pipedream, vote for the existing system. The sheer power of the political machinery in place with the main parties can not be overcome. We've seen Goldsmith try it, and the original SDLP try it, but they just have had neither the money nor the workers on the ground to make impact.
Even locally somebody said on here this morning..was it Keef?? they never see the independents in their ward, they never see leaflets and so on. This leafleting is part of the aforementioned problem. No back-up manpower, no money. - Quite true PaulB the result in the General Election will be either a Conservative Government, a Labour one or the worse of all worlds, a hung Parliament with the Party (or parties) that received a tiny minority of the vote dictating the outcome.
To vote outside the main Parties is a self-indulgence. - BW,
As we do not elect our PM.
As which party wins the most seats none know until after the count.
And, if the party you voted for does not win your seat; well at least you tried?
Why not look at elections as our chance to shape Parliament?
That, at present, any party that has 'won' a tiny majority of the popular vote can command such an overwhelming majority in the Commons sours our democracy, I say.
Any PM standing at the Despatch Box, looking out over the opposition sees 'envy' in their eyes and little but envy.
How different this might be if...
The ruling majority was slight,
A greater number of MPs were not of the big-partys.
[note; To write 'parties' gives the whole thing too much of an air of jolity]
If only such a PM could see in the faces opposite a clear intention to 'serve' their constituents rather than the same lust for power he himself has been prey to?
To slide into a two-party state without a constitution makes kings and king makers of MPs.
Yet further from we-the-people.
A smaller working majority in the Commons would lead to greater debate, wider involvement and truer deomcraric accountability and authority.
If the Tories get in how will we tell?
- Oudeis: From what you have posted previously you seem to me more aligned to the left of the political spectrum.
In which case you should join the Labour Party to add your voice to those other left wingers on the inside that reflect your view of the world, pushing Labour policy in that direction. In that way you would have more impact than what you are doing at present.
I suspect though that you would not be willing to compromise in the way all of us who join a political Party must do. A matter of ego perhaps.... - Barry Williams,
Guilty as charged.
BUT.
If it is indeed so. That only those who put ego before subjugation whistle in the wind; then I am not alone.
Half of those entitled to vote but do not should do as I do. Vote to change this perfect world where the time honoured method has brought us so much prosperity. What a fool I am, that it did not strike me before that the simple option; Good-cop or Bad-cop. Is all there is to democracy.
- Dear me. This does sound good.
I hope you will not find me churlish but I do wonder if this means real savings to a business what about those businesses which at the moment live on the edge?
Businesses, like the Phoenix, all too often these days rise again from the ashes. At some cost in taxation and the profits of other small businesses.
Seven months to go. - I can speak as a businessman Oudeis, the MD of one ans the FD of three and self-employed in the other which forms my primary income. I also advise a lot of small businesses professionally. I say that only to point out that I do know from first hand experience what I am talking about. I might also point out that I am chairman of Dover District Chamber of Commerce.
This will be a great help to small start up businesses and will encourage them to take on staff. Most businesses fail in the first few years and a 12% lower cost base for employing staff will help them a lot and it may well help more to succeed. It is not only that saving thats important, its also the reduced, simpler administration that will be attractive and encourage employment.
This is another area in which a new Government can help boost employment, a massive cut in red tape to help all smaller businesses to expand, not just start ups.
Small businesses are an important sector of the economy and it is from these that medium and large businesses develop. The small employer of today could be the big employer of tomorrow. The people who run these often place their money and homes on the line and deserve support.
Yes many small businesses, or should I say businessmen (and ladies!), fail only then to rise from the ashes with a new venture. That is what is so magnificent about the entrepeurial spirit in this country, people try and try agian until they succeed. Business people are special people who deserve to be helped and in so doing you help and boost the economy. - That certainly looks a good idea. In our early years in business we could have used more help as we reeled from one point to another trying to make ends meet initially. But in these times of cuts and lack of initiatives, how can they afford to introduce this measure? and which cut elsewhere will pay for it. We are well overdrawn in our national bank balance so bit baffled about this one!
- I have said how, PaulB. Turning someone into a taxpayer and off benefits is self funding in this way. It would apply only for the first two years incidentally, the period where a new business is most vulnerable.
- Barry Williams,
I cherish the fact that through forums such as this people can share views and standpoints.
As, from the outset, I hold each of those with whom I 'chat' in high regard, the biographical details you supply, while welcome and informative, could not increase your esteem in my eyes.
Today is a whole new day, which must bear further fruit from the Conservative tree. Such will give us more to chew the fat over. Till then all, adieu. - Good morning each & Barry W.
Preaching to the choir, is it not?
This, as I see it's intent, may well return a few waverers to the Tory fold. But nothing more.
[I note that a Senior Tax Partner with 'BDO' writes in today's Telegraph of the possible short-comings with the NI holiday we talked abouit earlier.]
I too, if fool enough, could bring up what New Labour has collated to boost their own plans, but I am not part of this see-saw school of party politics as you know.
Today's speech will be more blossom, promise of fruit to come.
While we count these blossoms lets us keep the thought of 'chickens from eggs' from our mind.
Good luck to all. - I will post on DCs speech soon, sometime Friday - not heard it yet myself due to busy day.
- Barry W,
Fighting talk, you say, and illustrate the same a mite too heavily given that our people continue to fall upon a foreign field.
No jokes , but a little Comic Relief.
Are we ready to give and keep on giving to the very people who got us into this mess?
The mention of the 'T' word also, at a time when change is on the cards, speaks volumes of another aspect of our sorry past. Now is no time for her and her ilk, with her 'trickle-down' at a time when the call is for a flood of money to go in the opposite direction.
Let us not forgert either that any good times we can think of in the last twelve years were never paid for at the time, so much being 'Off Balance-sheet'. I yield here to your knowledge in the prudence of such things.
This is obviously a joyous moment for Conservative supporters, I felt the same way (for different reasons) in 1997 and see where that got us. Let us hope for a clean and honest fight.
No matter that he is ready, are we ready for him?
- This was a very carefully stage managed speech by Cameron. Designed to tick all the right boxes while not saying anything too controversial in case one might shoot oneself in the proverbial foot. It appeased, in gentle vein, the conference crowd and didnt produce any nasty headlines the following day.
In the old days the great speeches of say Labour's Michael Foot were a great rallying cry to arms. They got the corpuscles stimulated in those days, made the blood pulse through your veins...but sadly those kind of barnstorming speeches seem to be a thing of the past. Everything now is too carefully stage managed with the Tories being the worst of the lot. ie DONT be seen having a good time, NEVER be caught on camera sipping champagne, NEVER make a bad headline, and so forth.
Despite all the talk of austerity, I see the story about how much David Cameron's suit cost has reared up. He was condemned that the thing cost £1600 crisp pound notes...they made much of how dressed down his lady wife was, to keep with the austeeeeere times, but I guess David made up for it with that suit. - PaulB, I see that the politics of envy are still alive and well among the left.
You cant say he avoided controversy, he made clear the kind of Government he will lead and produced a case for a smaller State.
Off now for the weekend but I intend to expand on the economic consequences of the outcome of the next election when I return. - Barry W,
Typical, swan off and leave them wanting less.
A 'rich' pillock is still a pillock though.
A smaller state? Which one this time? Iran.
Have yourself a great weekend. Economic consequences are set to expand all by themselves. - The Conference season has been a disaster for the Tories!
I was pretty downbeat before the Conferences started - I just assmed that the Liberals would be ignored, Brown would be boring, Cameron would do his heir to Blair thing, 20 point poll lead etc goodbye Labour.
But not so.
The Liberals had a terrible Conference which only served to highlight and exacerbate how disunited they are. Labour rallied and the "go forth" campaign really put the faithful in the mood for a fight (and although Brown WAS boring, he announced some important ideas). The Tories decided to tell us how hard life would be under their governance then alienated the unions and public sector workers in one go. Masterstroke!
Osbourne and the rest of them called it so horribly wrong on the recent huge economic decisions. Brown is blamed by savers for diminishing their interest to practically zero, but under the Tories it's debateable whether they'd have any savings at all!? The "markets are perfect for everything" approach is totally discredited and I'm genuinely worried about what might happen with Osbourne as Chancellor.
Cameron Prime Minister I could just about live with, but he can't drag the rest of his dinosaur party out of the past. - The polls have very quickly proved you wrong, Matthew. The electorate have caught on to Labour's economic incompetence. All Labour Governments have ended in economic meltdown, it is no coincidence that the longest period of Labour rule has ended in the biggest economic disaster ever.
Need I remind you of the deluded fool who declare an end to boom and bust.
The truth hurts and it is certainly hurting Labour who persist in their little dream world in which they can keep on spending and borrowing as much as they like with no payback. - one word in all of your drab tinted glasses posting is;
it was right
yep right wing!!!
the everyday p[erson expected cameron to nail himself into position as a possible next prime minister.
Those non political people I speak with every day were looking to camerons speech in the hope that the tories would not be the bickering party over issues such as europe(and theres plenty more)
and hoped that the conserrvative party would not lurch to the right.
The feedback i got was camerons speech disappointed them as non political persons sad they were
but didnt think he was going to change the party - Tory win?
"Aye there's the rub."
We are no longer a democracy. We are, and dear Barry W you wish us to continue to be, a Plutocracy!
What shall the FSTE do if Scotland revolts against being governed by a Party that has no MPs in Scotland?
What shall the FSTE do when the rise in unemployment begets riots on the streets?
New Labour win?
No cure for rising unemployment with the same results as above?
Vote for option 4 or more?
Put Democracy first, put we-the-people first.
Begin the next Parliamenary period with hope, hope for all and let the FSTE join in such hope in it's rightful place SUBORDINATE to Parliament!
- A strategy for uncertainty and chaos there from you Oudeis. Your alternative will indeed be massive unemployment, far worse than anything yet experienced from a collapsing economy under the weight of unsupported debt and a Government having to slash and burn rather than make ordered spending cuts.
The markets will respond better to strong leadership with a cohesive economic strategy that has a mandate. A weak government with no clear majority cannot solve the long term structural economic problems of the UK. A fractured parliament such as you want can only deliver weak government. - 1. I do not countenance a minority goverment.
Rather a government of national unity.
2. Weakness?
[I have just got back from a short walk to the shops...and I came up with this]
We each have one vote.
What if, to garner support from those who did not vote in 2005 (because of the inevitability of Red or Blue that you espouse?) and those who were too young to vote then, by a)overnight reducing all savings to say £1,000?
b)Sending the RN to off-shore island banks to ask nicely for ALL the money held by any who claim the protection of Brittishness? And then tell various Principalities the same.
-Would this not all but scratch the deficit?
-Encourage businessmen to renewed effort?
-Signify that truely "We are all in this together."?
Let us, for the moment, leave aside the 'shock', and think of those votes. Would 'I' have a mandate? I think I may. :-) - That is a total fantasy. Victorian gunboat diplomacy to steal money that you suspect may be invested illegally offshore.
Such a stupid idea its not worth discussing any more. - Fair enough.
I did not however mention any illeagality.
Simple repatriation. - LOL you either didn't read what I actually wrote or you just ignored it. I can't tell which. And there was me thinking you'd relish a debate!
Then again, why I'd want to debate with someone that calls the current economic climate "the biggest economic disaster ever" should actually call into question my own sanity.
This is why I gave up with DoverForum.
I'd have better luck talking to a brick wall. You just merrily go from the ridiculous to the absurd.
Anyone still reading this? - your contributions were always welcomed on the main forum matthew.
it must be healthy that we all differ on the best way forward for the country.
with an election coming up next spring we need to hear all shades of opinion. - I read it Matthew but to get a decent debate you need to keep a bit closer to reality. Your idea of the economy is about as good as my idea of knitting - non-existant. Try reading a bit wider than Labour fansites. I at least have some professional expertese and reading into the matter not just the Party political. That has always been your problem though mate, too much student theory and now, teaching I understand, pity you have not got into commerce and found out what its like at the sharp end.
You are out of your depth when it comes to real life economics. - Just a note for Matthew.
Matt I dont have your email any more, all my stuff was lost with a recent computer failure. But as Howard says there, it would be good to have you onboard in the general main areas with the Election coming up. Drop me an email..and I can get you on from this end easy peasy.
Yes BarryW may be a brick wall but at least he is a familiar brick wall and we can always negotiate around him lol!! - Now now PaulB, I have been losing some weight (well trying to, between slurps of real ale and dollops of ice cream.....) a wall indeed.....
- Just because the BNP are on the panel does not mean that all the questions will concern the points of difference between they and the Tories. This week there will be hard questions for the Red and Blue to answer.
Too big a figure? I see no big figures in New Labour or the Tories.
I trust all those envolved shall have paid back their due. Jack Straw, for one, is lacking on this point. - should be fascinating viewing.
i can imagine it now, the bloke with the microphone "can we have the next question please from the man at the back with the extreme right wing views ?"
no not you mr williams we will get around to you soon. - Yes this will no doubt result in millions of extra viewers tuning in...but for probably all the wrong reasons. They will have a sort of grim fascination for the leader of the BNP. I normally watch the programme anyway, but I will still be one of those viewers looking on with grim fascination. Although BarryW hopes that the guy will be exposed through debate, but one can never be sure and the real concern is that he may recruit more people into accepting his views as the norm..after all, henceforth he will be 'tarred' with the brush of respectability having been on the BBC flagship programmme Question Time.
Thats a real leg up into respectability and standardisation.
Still, it will be an interesting ride. - i just find the whole thing amusing, we had the same in the seventies with the national front and corin redgrave fronting the workers revolutionary party.
the votes never get above a certain level, nobody sees their like forming governments. - It was interesting to see on Question Time last night that Alan Johnson, Home Secretary, feels the same way as me about this Nick Griffin thing. I was beginning to feel like a lonely voice as I have posted in the main forum about this too in the past as some of you will remember. Mr Johnson said he would not share a platform with the leader of a racist party saying it gives them respectability/acceptability, something I said earlier. To be fair the other panellists didnt agree with him, both the Tory chap Damien Green and the Lib Dem chap who rather shamefacedly I cant remember his name for the moment..even though I sat beside him at dinner all night a year or two back..oh dear what is it?.
But anyway they both beleived as BarryW does that the guy Griffin should be engaged in debate. Many feel though that it gives Griffin a free BBC rubber stamped voice into millions of homes, a powerful tool, something they have never had before. - This is the fascist tendancy of the left rearing its ugly face PaulB. This idea that free speech is good only as long as you hold certain views. Stalin and Franco would both be proud of such views demonstrating the idealogical alliance between the extremes of both ends of the spectrum, communist/fascist two side of the same coin.
- norman baker was the lib dem bloke, always interesting, pity that he will probably never serve on a front bench.
- Ah yes Norman Baker is indeed the man. He is a very pleasant chap indeed, very personable. A vegetarian who believes wholeheartedly in vegetarianism. The night of our dinner this topic cropped up because I had ordered a vegetarian meal. He then spilled the beans about his own beliefs on the issue..which was fair enough...as I didnt realise he was an enthusiast for vegetanarianism. He didnt believe in killing animals fullstop, as I understand it.
He stood down from the shadow LibDem cabinet or declined to be involved in its latest version because he wanted to be free to talk on a wide range of subjects without being hamstrung. He is certainly a very good MP. He represents Lewes. - Good morning each,
It seems to me that the BNP represent much the same to New Labour as UKIP does for the Tories. Both represent the views that the main parties might call views that 'may not speak it's name'.
Given the state of things with MPs just now, and on to the election, it is just as well that they (BNP) are shown up as the wasters they are. Plus that now the party is open to all.
It is certainly not worth while to 'stick' with Red or Blue just because there are views out there that we do not like.
Come the election let the chips fall where they may.
I would like to thank MPs for all there help toward my beloved point of view. Vote for option 4 or more. - Good morning each & Barry,
KISS?
Dave,Gordon and Nick have but ONE message...
"Vote for me."
It is simple too to conclue that these debates would end-up worthless because that is how they (it?) start out.
Whatever Gordon 'knows' he won't say and Dave and Nick will be guessing.
Rather...
Put the electorate centre stage.
Run the adverts for voter registration.
Get draft Manifestoes published.
TELL THE PEOPLE that it is their choice that counts. - i think that the PM has got this right.
one debate can only scratch the surface of all the issues facing the country.
it would end up with the a series of soundbites.
people would like to see if the PM in waiting has the policies to improve their lives and take the country forward.
the economy, education, health, defence, foreign policy and law and order are just the few subjects that spring to mind.
maybe that is the 6?? - Howard - a series of 6 debates would be great for us political anoracks but would just be lost on the public. Minimal viewing figures with all the sting removed.
One two hour three way debate plus a two way one hour debate is about enough and this need not be dumbed down at all. - Oudeis people already know its their choice that counts. Thats always been the case so dont understand what point you were making there.
Also you seem to be advocating that people vote for loads and loads of independents, but that would, in my view anyway, just lead to chaos. It would render parliament into a headless chicken situation if it were to happen. No overall strategy just hundreds of MPs, who may indeed be working hard for their own community, but without an overal national strategy. The headles chicken principle.
I think the current system works quite well although image wise it has suffered badly in recent times, a gentlemens club with ladies, but all with a ticket to board the gravy train to excess. Never has the image of parliament been so low...but this is in the process of being fixed and after the next election much of the deadwood will have been swept away and a new breed of MPs will have come onboard prepared to live within the new financial rules. - Spot on PaulB. There are nevertheless many excellent MPs of all parties in the current Parliament who are being tainted. We need, and will get, a real clear out at the next general election of a lot of deadwood and the troughers.
- Good morning each.
If we are to be a Parliamentary Democracy we, to my mind, need to be focused on Parliament.
At present our democracy is broken. Half of the electorate do not vote. The chicken gets it's head in front with the backing of a small percentage of the electorate, too small a percentage.
To say that the whole of parliament is corrupt is as close to the truth as is possible without quibbling.
This corruption is systematic, this system will remain if our only choice is between Red & Blue.
If Plutocracy suits you thats too bad for me.
We shall see. - P.S.
The first thing is for me to thank PaulB for his confidence.
I simply do not share in the optimism for the future of Goverment, Parliament or for Democracy here.
It may be a 'comfort-zone' problem that we have. Not that a comfort-zone is a terrible thing, but questions need to be asked as to how single mindedly 'we' should be in holding on to our happy-place.
The system Red/Blue is a tenacious one, on this we may agree. Yet much now is to be asked of us all by so few. The Red/Blue system, losing no power for any lack of a clear mandate, can only continue to operate for this same few.
I cannot offer my little bit of a mandate to any who have been envolved in PARLIAMENT over the last five years or so. I cannot sit back and watch while the country is duped once again, lulled to accept the very lies professional politicians work-up to keep your 'comfort-zone'.
Are we yet to seek for peace in the killing of people far away?
Are we yet to turn the UK into a prison camp?
Are we yet to give the people more choice and fewer options?
Are we yet to be managed like heifers and milked? If we-the-people do not demand our democracy back we will lose it.
BTW
The BNP, I read, are uncontitutional and should not be on the Beeb, yet they have not changed since the Euro-elections and there they sit. This is Red/Blue politics in action.
- cannot agree with you on the single debate barry.
most people either vote for the same party each time, or do not vote at all.
no doubt you will know the figures on how many "floating voters" there are, i would estimate about 10 - 15% of the electorate.
these are the people that influence who wins elections, and will want to see every issue debated.
someone like me(lots of people similar to me too) would probably tune in to 3 or 4 of them.
subjects like defence would go right over my head, therefore no point in watching. - I didn't suggest a single debate howard, two debates is what I prefer. Six debates is way over the top. In America there are just three Presidential debates after all. I would not have a problem with 3 just think two woukld be better..
- Sorry I can't be tempted.
I imagine Barry would have ruffled my hair at the same time as his last post if he could have.
I don't know how widely you needed to read to conclude that we're in "the biggest economic disaster ever" but I'll stay in my world of non-reality and piss easy job.
mattfriend1@googlemail.com - Good morning each & Barry,
Barry, you are equally 'frit' when it comes to spelling out what must be done.
I would make the rich pay through the nose.
There. I have said it.
What say you? - That is a typical left wing attitude that in practise would reduce the 'tax take' not increase it. That is the lesson from the 70's, it did not work then and it will not work now.
I have no interest in penal taxation as a tool for punishing the successful, tax should be for one reason only, to raise the revenue needed by Government.
This Government spends and has spent far too much of our money and that is the crux of the problem. - barry,
We are surely not here to argue.
What would you and the Tories do?
Sooner or later (you hope) the ideas have to come from you, not the arguements against what I might do or what has been done and what is being done.
I do not see myself as left wing, nor do I see myself as typical, BUT of the two of us I am the one with the ideas.
Let us face it.
The numbers favour ME.
You will need big shiney ideas to get the votes you need.
I am here to help. - You can be forgiven Oudeis as a recent newcomer to the forum but I have in the past made a large number of suggestions for cutting spending. As indeed the Conservative Party itself has.
Just a few:
Cancel ID Cards and the Personal Accounts
Cancel the national NHS database
Abolish the unelected regional tier of local authorities
Freeze public sector recruitment (except the Armed Forces)
Immediate freeze to public sector spending except defence
(not just the freeze on salaries over £18k as advocated by Conservatives)
That would be a start, I would have a zero based budgetting exercise in which every part of public spending would need to prove its worth and be justified. All public services would have to change their method of service delivery to increase cost effectiveness and I would take an axe to the beaurocracy and the Quangoes.
There are many more projects that would also be for the chop.
Overall I would target a total 20% actual (not just real terms) cut in public spending over 4 years. - Having read this Barry's posting and not being a regular poster I'm clear now where barry comes from.
Matthew, please do keep posting, you sound a reasonable guy, very able to fight your corner.
We need on here sensible debate and no more of this I know better than you. - Just to be getting on with...
A saving of %20 on current spending, using the figures above. Leaves the spend at about the total tax income (point 4 above).
Here are twelve pages of public sector jobs that would not be filled.
kentconnection.com
But, this is a start.
- looks like your blog is taking off barry.
i predict some very polarised views coming into play. - Good morning each & Barry,
Roll-up! roll-up!
It's the BNP show.
After all the kerfuffle it is indeed a shame that Question Time gave over it's tried and tested format to put up one Aunt-Sally for all to knock.
Not only were the wider issues not discussed we learned nothing we did not already know.
Many past Conservative and New Labour utterances would have faired just as badly as those of NG.
That there is no such thing as community/society (?) was amply illustrated by the opening shots on the Panorama repeat later las night. Just what good has been done with all the money spent by Gordon and those before him? - Who was it who used to witter on about known unknowns etc.?
No matter. We all remember how easy it is for some to make difficult decisions.
Such come naturally to the Tories when applied to non Tory voters.
Nothing here yet on wealth creation.
I do not think that the country is ready to give the job to Dave.
Brown and Darling may be said to know something about all this, yet they get things so wrong. How can this be? Perhaps it suits the New Labour Party to be optimistic as to our future prospects. Might you Barry be giving us your own optimism? How should the electorate take these forecasts? Are there enough pinches of salt to go around?
Maybe if Dave got his 'chums' in the business sector to invest before the election he could then claim that the renewed confidence is entirely down to him? Risky. If we do not see growth soon I do not hold out much hope for Red or Blue. Votes for the usual suspects shall be dear. Can a bidding war be far away? - Now that Dave and George have upset royalty. I do wonder if this is a vote winner or no?
- i thought that strong government was admitting mistakes and rectifying them.
much the same as a successful business would do. - A mistake that should never have happened in the first place. It does not take a military expert to see hpw wrong headed such a move would be.
Just the tinyest bit of thought is all it needs but this Government is well past that and in pure funk mode running around like a headless chicken. - BARRYW
HOW ABOUT TRYIN TO GET AN EVEN HANDED BLOG RATHER THAN BORING GOVT BASHING - This is my blog, Keith, a right wing blog, and I make no bones about my political leanings.
I am not interested in being 'even handed', you are welcome to post below an opposing argument to what I put forward. To do that you have to look at the points I make and then directly answer them from the Government's viewpoint and that would create an interesting discussion.
The truth is that it is very difficult to defend the actions of this fag-end government, if not impossible to do so. You seem clearly unable to muster specific counter argumenst against what I say after all, so how on earth would it be possible for me to be 'even handed' even if I wanted to if even you Labour fan boys cant defend them? - barryw
I have defended and answered many of the points you have put here and elsewhere, theres a big diffrence between, not answering, and your not agreeing.
As you know i'v also never hidden my left leaning and proud of it, and yep willing to accept Labour sold out to get elected, but they are the best of a bad bunch at the moment.
Yes its your blog, I will comment from time to time but it would be nice to see others read it and cointribute more and not just your right wing leanings
but as you say its your blog - Going back to my previous blog on the economy.
Brown's reputation on the economy is looking even worse after today's news.
The US economy grew at a 3.5 percent pace in the third quarter, the best showing in two years.
That means that my prediction when we were the first major economy to go into recession, that we would be the last out was right. That prediction was made when Brown made is laughable claim of us being the best equipped country to deal with recession.
To make things even worse for Brown, he is looking increasingly isolated. Obama has rightly said that tax cuts, rather than Brown's big government approach, is the best way to grow the economy. Just wait, you will see a lot of a video featuring Obama saying just that soon and during the general election. - This wouldn't be the 'Punch & Judy' politics that Dave was so certain he would take no part in?
Any fool can cut taxes just as any fool can spend, spending other people's money is all the easier.
But, this simply plays out the same old argy-bargy we have had to stomach for many years now. Nothing new.
Dear Barry. To say that we play with your ball is hardly a worthwhile boast. You have done nor said anything new in what you have written above. Sure, we can see that what pleases you pleases you, but so what?
Brown has power, Dave wants it.
I want this power to be returned to the people, from whence it came.
Barry, I'll wager that you say nothing because you have nothing to say.
Why not begin the election right here right now? What do any of us have to lose?
Let me kick things off.
I think Ted Heath IS still the best leader the Tories have, cadaver and all.
I think Dave is all cheap trick and Jive. I think Dover will be won by a Local Independent at the next election.
How could Blue or Red do anything other than go down together? - Oudeis I dont think there is any chance of an Independent winning a Parliamentary seat in Dover, not in the immediate future. We dont seem to have the Independent raw material you so long for. The hard work that goes into maintaining a profile(Gwyn Prosser MP) or gaining a profile(Charlie Elphicke Prospective Conservative) is unbelievable. Charlie has worked hard coming from obscurity to get himself involved in various local campaigns on hospitals and so on, which has resonated well with local people. Gwyn still has his very firm supporters even though he has been in power now through 3 elections. Even Tony Blair, who was immensely popular in the beginning, found it hard to stay popular for so long.
So the Election coming up will be very interesting, but alas no hope for an Independent. - PaulB,
Thank you.
I have had a peep at the siuation in both Dover and Thannet S. Which together appear as a Red island in a sea of Blue on the political map. With majorities from tiny all the way up to small.
So much for the Red and Blue.
One point is that if the good people of your area vote for this one or the other, they will be electing Dave or Gordon as PM. Whether the voters can stomach this is what is at stake.
I, on the other hand, reason thus...
How often are we told..."If the people do not like what we do the people can vote us out at the next election."
There are, to my mind, three modes of election.
[The 'they','their' and 'them', are the usual suspects]
1. Play them at their own game.
[how things are usually done. The winner is either Blue or Red]
2. Don't play their game.
[do not vote, spoiler vote;NOTA, no cadidate represents me, MR Loonies etc.]
3. Play their game WITHOUT them.
This is what I propose.
I grant that the good people of your neck of the woods are good at turning out to vote, usually as in Mode1 above.
I have nothing against our friend Vic Hatcham, but when I speak of Local Independent I do not necessarily mean VH.
I, in my own small way, endeavour to encourage a 100% turn out at the next election.
I also point out that if those who use Mode2 above could be made to see that there IS a way to elect a non party affiliated independent candidate from their own community.
I do all this because I despair at the lack of Democratic progress, I have listened to promise after promise that (like all too many promises) something will be done. I shall no longer wring my hands and bear my lot with equanimity.
I offer a REAL opportunity for change.
let the people decide.
- i realise that victor is a good egg but his surname is matcham not hatcham.
- Well said Barry.
I do wonder, however, just how we are to show that things are better done any other way?
If we are to live, not by rules, but by exercising good judgement why then are we expected to jump from Red to Blue? Is this not the Rule rule?
We have seen over twenty years that the stark choice between these two is little or no choice at all.
If we are to restore trust in Politics why not begin by restoring trust in ourselves and each other?
Where are the good ideas to come from?
Are the Tories set to match-em? Can the people not be trusted to hatch-em? - Just seen some analysis on Political Betting.
It is often said that Conservatives now are not in as strong a position as Labour were in 1996. This analysis actually shows the opposite.
Conservatives were polling in early-mid 30% range then while Labour now are polling in the mid 20% range.
I suspect that each of the above demonstrates the core vote level of each party.
www2.politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2009/11/01/at-precisely-this-stage-before-97-blairs-lead-was-just-13/#
You will need to cut and paste as it will not accept a URL.
- apparently that old warhorse michael heseltine has predicted a hung parliament after the next general election.
- Barryw
At least Hesletine has seen the true light.
likely to be a hung parlianment.
I have to say heath was a fair leader but 2 tory leaders who were leaders at the wrong time i believe were IDS and Hague
I think Hague has a lot of talent, and when the tories get rid of DC they may allow Hague back as leader, but sadly its that deep lurch to the right that many tories dont want to make, the real fear now for the tories is the right wing of the party will make the tories unelectable if the party lurches to far to the right.
Another leader who surprized many(Obut not with talents as a politician!!!) was J Major!!!! - i always respected duncan smith, i am not bothered about the charisma of a politician, much more into what they say and do.
hague got the job too young and was never given the time to put his own stamp on the party.
his advisors must have been clueless too, all that stuff during the election campaign about how many days left to save the pound.
the pound/euro debate has never been a vote winner at election times, people vote on issues like employment, taxation, schools, the health service and mortgage rates. - Gentlemen, good morning.
I feel that you are only talking about the Tory voters. Therefor leaving the majority out of your thinking. No majority no win. Tarzan may well be correct. I doubt if he went any farther into 'seeing' the Tories position in all this, but even I would like to see one or two Tory MPs in the next parliament. Maybe even three. - Heseltine was only talking about the huge swing that will be needed due to the structural electoral imbalance. Polling evidence though indicates that such a swing is more likely than not.
This electoral imbalance needs to be corrected with a reduction in the number of seats and a levelling out in the number of electors per seat. The result would be fewer safe seats and far more marginals. - the blues are now running scared of the ukip, they know that they can take enough blue votes to give labour victory in a lot of marginals.
all the blue voters i know are for complete withdrawal from the eu, the lisbon treaty and the euro are just side issues to them.
5% of tory mps wanting out will not impress tem at all.
would be interesting to hear from chas on the subject, he is out and about all over the district.
what is he hearing? - i am with the 10%.once the czech president signs its down the slippery slope to becoming a full member.wheather blair getting the presidentcy or milliband getting the other job thats it job done and dusted,so no need for a referendum at all.and this before the next genral election.
next stop the euro. - we have been a full member for many years, the euro is another issue altogether.
i cannot see either of our main political parties signing up to a new currency. - The Czech Court, as expected, has santioned the Lisbon Treaty with only the President's signature standing between that and law.
Cameron will soon, very soon, be announcing official Conservative policy for post-ratification. He may not even wait until the damned document is actually signed. The reasons to annouce policy are starting to outweigh the reasons to stay quiet. As I said above, expect a robust and sure footed response. Watch this space. - never mind barry,there is the american colines you could move to.and dont forget the boring green back in your pocket,along with some corruption thrown in.
- Actually max - the ratification of this dreadful Treaty makes our longer term exit from the EUfarce a lot more likely.
- Just to let you all know I will be standing the next time round, I have been told I will get the funding I need this time,we wait and see on that one.
The cost of standing on your own is very high as I found out,but still glad I done it,I did know that the risks were very high,and did know that I would not get in,the risk is some what lower this time but still highbut I will do alot better than some of you think. - Good afternoon each and Barry,
Well said Vic Matcham. Something worth saying twice.
It will be a whole new ball-game this time around. The Party is over. - Thank you Sir for saying that.What makes a good strong government?I will tell you a very strong opposition but not just from one party,but from all sides,and the goverment of the day should not have alot of seats a working number but not like it has been in the pass with them geting over 100seats.
Also I also think we should have less M.P.S and councils it is costing alot to keep it all going. Parish councils should join up with each other if they are within 5miles of each other,by doing this they would have a bigger say ,we do not need town councils +district+the K.C.C.with some local cllrs siting on them all at the same time. - barry its only a treaty to be used as a guideline.
if we gave a crack say 5 years,then work out which way to go,to stay in or get out. - Some guidline Max - come off it, it provides for an increase in the centralisation of power in Brussels with no new Treaty, along with a Foreign Minister, President and other trapping of a State.
STOP PRESS - just had a bulletin..
Vaclav Klaus has signed the Lisbon Treaty
according to Laura Kuennsberg of the BBC.
The day of shame for Labour and the LibDems who only managed to get this through by denying the referendum they promised.
We now have a different ball game....
- 3 cheers for vaclav klaus.and its about time the concervatives gave up the idea of a referendum.
- yes barry a guideline,a bit like woolys pick and mix.
we will either have the the first president or a foreign minister to boot. - they have now officially given up the idea of a referendum max.
now we shall never know whether they would have done or not. - now thats what i call a full house howard.
barry,4 words for you,I TOLD YOU SO. - max - this is not news. Right from the start, yes even in the 'cast iron guarantee' statement itself it was made clear that it would be a pre-ratification referendum only.
A referendum on accepting the Treaty is irrelivant post-ratification only mischief makers can claim otherwise.
DC will be making a statement today.
The fact is this ratification is a betrayal by Labour and the Libdems and there is no getting away from that. - and now the conservatives will have to tow the line as well,wheather in or out of power.
- I am going to a meeting on the 19th of NOV.
I will know then if I am standing again next year,it will be for a party,I just do not have the funds again to go on my own, also you do need the back up of a party.Thank you vic M, - vic
this area is for barry to expound his middle of the road views on politics.
my understanding is that we reply to what he has said, not to post on anything else here.
there is still the members page for people to expound their views. - Barry middle of the road,what have you been reading,but OK I will not do it again sorry, but Barry middle of the road he is so far on the right it is a one way road
- And D C and the tories let off the hook
but squirm they will, this is the 1 issue the tories are so divided on - Actually Keith, much less divided than you would like people to think. There may have been a division in John Major's day when a minority of pro-Europeans forced the Party down the wrong direction but now the pro-Europeans are the fringe element.
Despite the best efforts of the Labour and LibDem spin doctors such claims as yours have not gained traction.
- BARRYW
When you eventually come out from your rose tinted glasses you may see what the p;erson in the street is realy thinking,
Hate to see even you heavily dissapointed as you have been in past elections - keith,we all can live in hope,but there again it might be the blinkers doing it, in fact its tunnel vision.
- max - keith. Why wont you actually address the issues instead of making unfounded, often personal, assertions. What about facts to back your political viewpoints, what about supporting testimony and evidence from polling or any other source?
It seems to me that you dont know how to discuss issues intelligently or simply are unable to marshal any facts to support your view. - Lets look at the facts Barry.
1 Cameron like all the others promised a referendum, no referendum but a cobbled together plan to appease Tory Mps.
2 The French are rolling around the floor in hysterics at a plan which they consider will not work and is pathetic.
3 Two Tory front-bench MEPs resign from the front benches, clearly showing that cracks are appearing in Tory EU policy.
4 The Tories are now in a state of disarray with Hague trying to cement up the cracks that are undoubtedly appearing. - David - Yes indeed look at the facts:
1/ A pre-ratification Treaty was what was promised (including in the now famous 'cast iron guarantee' article that is not being quoted in full by the extremes of either side in this debate. It was always clear that a diffierent set of circumstances would prevail if it was ratified requiring a different approach.
2/ The French can roll around on the floor as much as they like. They may feel that getting this ratification through using deciet and bullying (against the French electorate as much as the Irish and British) is a victory, but they will end up paying for it one way or another.
3/ There are some who will always hold strong opinions on this but the broader opposition to this in the Conservative party has not materialised simply because people see the futility of a referndum on a done deal that cannot be undone.
4/ There is no disarray despite the best efforts of Euro-loonies and some of the more extreme antiEU elements to create that impression.
Face the facts of the situation we now have and not the one we would prefer to have.
We are in this position with that dreadful Treaty, now law, simply because of the Labour Governments breaking of an election pledge combined with a shabby deal between Blair/Brown and Mandelson, desperate to delay an election until after ratification. Expect Mandelson to be less 'involved' in defending Brown now, in fact that has already started happening....
- Good afternoon each and Barry,
All of this still leaves us with a cast-iron IF.
We shall have our referendum early next year in the form of a General Election.
I am not alone in wishing that we shall have more of a Peoples Parliament rather than the straight swap of Blue for Red.
I am with the fellow you quote Barry. I too would rather the GE be our referendum and not have our future in the hands of Party wordsmiths.
Redressing the power imbalance is best accomplished by bringing power closer to the people rather than the usual tussle between Party Power Peddlars. - Of course there is disarray Barry, Hannan and his front bench Tory colleague, resigned simply because Cameron has somewhat changed his stance, for what other reason would they resign?
In any event what is meant by 'repatriation of powers', Britain has no written constitution unlike many other countries, much of the Magna Carta has been repealed. This means we have the ability to accept something one day and repeal it the next. Despite the fact that the Lisbon Treaty has been ratified does not necessarily mean that we cannot hold a referendum. - barryw,intresting comments there,but it does sound that you and dc are trying to dig yourselfs out of a hole.maybe the reason those two have resigned from office is because they have seen the light of this treaty.
- sounds to me that the leader of the oppposition is trying to please everybody and ending up by alienating everybody, even the daily mail has turned on him.
a referendum will never happen though, there is not the will to do so from any of our leading politicians. - howard
you have hit the nail on the head, the tories promised a referendum, and made big play on this, people believed they were going down this road.
At the very last knockings they squirmed and squirmed and i realy do feel sorry for Willy H having to cover up the cracks appearing in Euro Tory MP's and the tory party.
Iv said many months ago people would start to realise thedangers of a tory govt, slowly but surely this is happenin and now people more and more are turning away from them.
I think this election has all to play for - You will be proved wrong on all counts, we just have to see.
It is amusing that you keep repeating the same old, same old, that simply has no relationship to the truth and ignoring the factual and contradictory information I provide.
Keith - now what was it Labour promised in their manifesto?
But then people have come to expect this kind of thing from Labour, DC is setting an example of honesty to contrast with your lot. - honesty,thats a big word coming from a tory,dc and co dont know the meaning of the word.
- Good morning each and Barry.
I agree that the timing of the next election will be a matter of diary.
That Brown is seen as a disaster is indeed a boon for young Osborne (George), but this has nothing to say about GO's abilities. This slagging contest is, as you well know Barry, the simplest of things to bring off and does nothing to inform or educate the people as to the why's and wherefor's of the problems we all face and offers no solutions. It is no more than change for change's sake. That the Reds have installed place-men is no different to what the Blues would do. The greatest draw-back you have is your record, your (the Blues) record of agreeing with the Reds and exceeding them whenever possible in the worst of their intentions.
Vision, Barry, is all. Where would the Blues take us? How different shall this be from what we know of your works thus far?
You have my sympathy as you continue to back the practised loser against the practised failure.
We the people need to break ourselves of this filthy habit of electing those with shiney lies rather than those with tarnished half-truths. - osborne is to weak to be chaceler,with cameron being ousted at the earlist,i cant see a election untill june unless g brown wants to play dirty of course.
- I still Mr Brown can pull this around I am not a red but this man has real guts and will not gave in.
- clock is ticking barryw
HAVE TO say a few moinths ago I thought Labour were dead and buried , but each day that passes sees DC and the tories getting weaker and weaker, and getting found out
People distrusting them. - Keith, et al, All the polling evidence show a steady Conservative lead and, as the election gets closer that is looking more and more unassailable.
The mood too backs that up. The Government is obviously tired and discredited, thats just putting it politely.
Lets just hope we get the election soon for the sake of the country and before Brown desperate flailings make things even worse. - If you want more proof of how desperate things are in the Labour camp, I have just read a report in the Sunday Times which quotes two prominent old left labourites praising aspects of Tory policy. Claire Short regarding overseas aid and Tony Benn over civil liberties.
Benn says that some Labour MPs might defect to the Conservatives in the event of a hung parliament or Tory win.
Also there are seperate reports that Labour's banks have stopped them from borrowing more money to fund an election. They are restricting the election budgets in marginals due to the financial mess they are in and a shortgage or donations. - BARRYW
Clare was an old lefty that you despise so much, and still hurting over being kicked out of her job.
Our Tony will always be tony, well respected but often in the world of unachievables
But you note more and more people talking about a HUNG parlianment!!! - Good morning each and Barry,
Truely Barry it is better to travel in hope than to arrive.
It has been Parliament that has failed us. The opposition are not there to fill up the seats and feather their own nests, yet that is about all they have done these past five years (and for a good many years before that).
It is high time the public had some sport and it may be that with the straw polls the sporting has begun.
I, for one, shall enjoy every minute of the electioneering, of the Dutch auction that shall be the respective claims of each of the players who have, all by themselves, brought the game into such disrepute. - Im afraid Parliament has taken a depressing turn for the worst today Oudeis. It seems the new committee set up to implement the new Legg expenses report are calling into question its validity and now may not implement the suggested changes. I heard as much on the Andrew Marr show this morning and this represents for me anyway a real turn for the worst.
Surely the public wont accept a watering down of this report. They want changes, they are crying out for changes...surely the Party Leaders can get together and force this through. Otherwise it will have a devastating effect amongst voters. Poll turnouts will be down evermore, as non implementation will clearly mean that nobody is listening to the electorate. - the chap in charge of not putting the expense cuts into action is a personal friend of a former spin doctor, in other words, one of the in crowd.
not only will there be merely cosmetic alterations to the expenses racket, as soon as the next election is over, they will vote themselves a pay rise. - Yes, you have TORY, And other parties MP'S calling for the report= to be heavily watered down, now im not 1 usually to say this, but we have the report(which in my eyes didnt go far enough) but MP's should wake up to what people are saying
Don't they ever learn
- kieth,no they dont,they are like spoilt bratts having there sweeties taken away.
- Thats sad Keith, Tory in full caps then qualified with 'other parties'.... Why not refer to MPs of all parties, that would be more grammatically and factually correct instead of just try to smear in the best Labour tradition.
- barry,you can get pills for that down at the chemist.
- is it me or has this this blog gone totally downhill.?
not much politics here, just punch and judy stuff. - Hah, Howard, such is life - some people are just not interested in proper conversaation about political issues. You cant have an discussion with those who make no effort to make a case and merely express assertions or one-liner nonsense without a cohesive basis for what they say.
- barry
you did post on here when you started this blog, that you would not get involved in any tit for tat stuff - barry/howard
yOU HAVE BOTH STATED YOU WOULD LIKE ALTERNATIVE POSTS WHICH I HAVE DONE, STATING ALL PARTIES WANT THE MP'S EXPENSES SAGA WATERED DOWN
I DONT CARE WHICH PARTY THEY COME FROM THEY ARE WRONG
END OF - Barry,
Just what is your cohesive basis for what you say? Is it not your wish for there to be a Punch & Judy show? It is for you to state what is 'right' and then others come along to either agree or show how shallow they are by not agreeing with what you say.
The days of getting a bye straight into the final; Blue verses Red, are gone. Both your Blue and the Red shall have to engage with the electorate as never before. Both records are not to be highlighted and both visions of the future are but pipe dreams. Both R&B are going to have a hard-sell to explain to the populace that at long last you have the answers the people can support and trust. The people have heard all that Dave and Gordon have to say before and yet we are where we are. Woopee. Well done Red and Blue. - Howard - I did but then PaulB said I should do so and get involved, apparently people like arguing with me, PaulB said that....
- Yes indeed a good political discussion is always good and I myself have enjoyed over the years arguing the toss with BarryW, but we have to try and keep the quality up. The silly one liners from Max for example, partiularly when he responds to BarryW are not helping, as he also does this on the main forum. So Max (Brian)slapped wrist for you.
You have to remember that other people read what you write not just other forumites so measured answers with content are far better. A good one liner is okay ..once... as we all know, but continued responses in that way means the debate gets nowhere.
This blog should have a very relevant chance to do well with the Election coming but as Howard says there in effect...we have to make the best of it , we have to make it work...all of us.
Keef yes its for all party opinion in the comments but the blog itself of course is from a Conservative viewpoint - Good morning each and Barry,
Barry you say a great deal more than Dave. Who should we listen to? I see a bit of a gap between you two in that we can chide Dave for not doing what HE says, but we get little of that.
Maybe we must trust that you both sing from the same sheet.
A written Constitution and the abolition of the Monarchy are also clear cut methods of puting right this Red mess. Although implementing one or both of these would lead to few places for Politicians to hide. When all is said and done the Red and the Blue have a mutual parasitic relationship with the rights and the welfare of the people lost in this constant (fake) tussle. If you think people should be in more control of their own lives and the way their communties develop why not grant us all that freedom through a constitution that cannot become just another political football? - The unwritten Constitution of the UK is tried and tested and your republican sentiments do not offer any solutions, Oudis, just more problems.
You are wide of the mark....
DC's speech really hit the nail on the head. I have an advantage, I am not seeking public office and can take a different approach to the same problem but recognising the same broad solutions.
Cameron is setting out themes and objectives, setting the tone if you like, for his Conservative Government should he win the election. He will continue to do that, developing a number of themes based around personal responsibility, less Government and localism. - ...So all in the garden is lovely?
Tried and tested?
Just what is all this I hear about DNA retention?
This unwritten constitution is merely a way of throwing football after football onto the political pitch. Merely to give the Red and Blue something to find wanting in one another.
So all personal responsibility is is just what any given government says it is at their whim?
What could bring more responsibility on all than a written constitution? But, oh no, you Blues still wish all responsibility to rest with the people you tun to but once every five years, then get on doing what suits your own needs best with nothing but the same old promise that if the people do not like what you are doing they can vote you out at the next election. Where again the Blue and the Red shall promise so much and deliver not at all.
No parliamentarian is 'subject' to the law as the rest of us are, no parliamentarian is held to be responsible for any of their works or ommissions. No wonder commercial contracts with Governments are a blank cheque. No wonder Dave wishes to be the one to dole out this largesse to his buddies who shall have helped him in his bid to Rule.
I too, as you should know by now, am not standing either with the same freedom to speak as you have on this and that.
Where else could reponsibility be writ large for all to see and to know than on the page of a written constitution?
That you do no more than glibly profer the notion that puting power into the hands of us all would only lead to 'problems' is a cop-out.
Let us not forget we are where we are because of Dave as much as Gordon. We are a (so called) Parliamentary Democracy. Where were Dave and the rest while the economy was going down the tube?
Doing very nicely thank you. Is the answer, is it not? - DC and others, including myself were warning about the economy well before 2005. No-one was listening as most people believed the hype and spin from no10 and no11. It was 2005 when I mentioned on this forum the book 'Fantasy Island' that was pointing out the economic disaster building up....
All you are offering, Oudeis, is cynicism and prejudice from a left wing republican viewpoint. You do not offer real practical solutions, just espousing your own take on things. That is fine, I have no problem with that. You simply choose to ignore the very real gap opening up between the approaches of DC and Labour. Most people though are seeing things differently as is evidenced in the polls and much of the media. - BARRYW
Better clear one point up, I don't like argueing with you,
I will have a discussion, put my viewpoint which you can accept or not(not that bothered realy)
My only concern is politics is creeping back into the main forum again.
Im still unsure if the foum should have a blog from just 1 party? - Keith - the idea is not to keep politics to just this one part of the Forum. I will do a blog here and will change it two, maybe three times a week. That way it keeps relatively fresh while giving people who do not log in every day a chance to read it. I can really only cover one topic at a time here and when other 'hot' issues arise the main members forum is the place. Other members can, and do, raise political issues in the members part as well.
Neither, incidentally, do I want this blog to be too heavily focussed on minor issues or negative digs at the opposition. Hence not doing the Gordon Brown thread here. - Keef with regard to a one party blog....this is amusing! I have tried to entice Ben Bano, Gordon Cowan, even Gwyn himself , into coming on here but these guys wont even join up never mind do a blog!! So Im exasperated at your suggestion! Ben joined initially and seemed keen but then changed his mind. I never asked any of them to do a blog its true, but just to get them to contribute would be a start. I am interested in an official Labour slant...but nobody will take up the mantle. I am disappointed that Labour Leader Ben didnt contribute...he has the floor! Its not for the want of trying from my end.
There are two blogs.. Ricks Movies and Barrys Blog and I have mentioned another nature type one to Phil Eyden...will see later if he wants to do that. But Im open to suggestions...although I will rephrase that...suggestions are one thing but deliverence is another.
I will add though that I do get good co-operation from Gwyn on editorial. - this shyness is a bit disappointing, the big wigs in labour and lib
dems read what is on here, just that extra step needed to contribute. - HOWARD
Not sure what a BIG WIG is, if your referring to LABOUR persons to me they are all just members, nowt big about them.
I do partly understand why some labour people don't post, it does appear if you don't hold a tory view then you are attacked.
sad realy
- im sure that you are right there kieth,sad isnt it.
- Good morning each and Barry,
Sad is the lack of confidence. Is this a lack of confidence in their own New Labour message?
I think you do Barry a disservice in that he too needs to have his message tested to aid him hone his own brand of bull. While at the same time leaving the field of arguement to the Blues alone does nothing to encourage your fellow electors to see that there is any choice other than Blue at the next election. It is a sad day indeed when each can only discuss their concerns with people who share their own take on the possibilities for the future of us all.
Given that more read what is written here than post comments just what is NuL affraid of?
If it is not cuddly Barry that frightens them could it be the people of the Dover area from which they hide? There should be no Barry-er to free speech. - Keef thats not an acceptable reason.."if you dont hold a Tory view you are attacked!"
Politicians debate with each other all the time on tv, on radio, and its the same on here. We're the internet..its catching on this internet thing!!! We have wide readership around the town and Labour supporters are crying out for a voice..trust me! But nobody will do it. Surely they could put someone forward.
I agree with the Oudeis comments there.Its looking that way.
Just to add I appreciate the efforts you make yourself Keef as without you, even though you are no longer elected, the Labour situation would be lost entirely. So...whats to be done? - very well and eligantly put Oudies. I have often invited debate and Labour's advocates should have the courage of their arguments to put them accross and be willing to debate them.
Alas, all we seem to hear though from Labour are smears, misrepresentation of Conservative policies and the dragging up of events 20 years ago... never anything about new policy or a coherant defence of what they are doing. Sad really, I would welcome such debate and to test their views and record. - Barry,
Let us not over egg this pudding. The tussle between the Red and the Blue is nothing but a pot & kettle affair at the best of times.
It is the people of the Dover area that are again/still the losers.
Perhaps there could be a Ballot Paper forum? Where each and all the PPCs or their representatives could present the people with their ideas for the future.
I have read elsewhere that labour has just won a "resounding victory" in Glasgow. Small minded is all that we can become if small minded is how we begin and how we procede.
You have the high ground Barry, that you have it all to yourself is the fault of your opponents. What scumbags they must be. - Testing 1234
- Oudeis a term like 'scumbags' is very harsh and its not appropriate as they(Labourites) are generally a good group of guys/gals down here of which Keef(Keith) himself was one until recently, when he left after many years service. He was both a DoverDC and a KentCC representative.
The Labour guys are of course free to contribute on the site generally or free not to do so, as its a free country kind of thing, but obviously as this website grows and grows, some official representation from Labour would be very welcome. - I would not call them scrumbags, Oudeis, they may lack the courage of their convictions but there is no need to be like that to them.
This 'resounding victory' in one of Labour's safest seats may help Brown keep his job until the election and in that way is perhaps a victory for the Tories... Let them have their small cheer, it has no impact on the wider picture however they might big it up.
As for 'pot and kettle' - the divisions between the Parties are as wide as they have ever been. OK, to those, like you, on the left who hark back to old style socialism, it may not seem that way but the truth is there are two very different views on offer as to how the country should be run.
Big Government or small government, make no mistake Cameron, in Government, will be very different to what we have seen over the last 12 years. New solutions on offer to address the problems left by Labour. - i very much doubt if oudeis is on the left, seems to be very apolitical barry, maybe he does not fit in to a convenient pigeonhole for you?
- Gentlemen and Barry, [no offence meant]
Howard you are correct, apolitical. [even if I do say so myself]
Paul and others. I did mean to be mean.
My over riding concern is turnout! Which is why I do not take part in pot & kettle politics even if everybody else wishes to.
I hope and or, I realise that what is written here is read by many who do not put their thinking into print. There MUST be room for the people in politics the partys cannot have it all to themselves.
- Oudeis, You admitted on another post that you approached things from a left wing perspective. This was apparent from a number of points you made. That does not necessarily link you to any specific party, big or small. (note howard)
- barry
i think you are looking for a label here, left or right.
i have read all of oudies's posts and to my mind they are more anarchist or nihilist than anything.
certainly nothing mainstream or involving a membership. - More an attitude to life/society Howard. Not Party, not label...
- PAULB
Throughout all of these debates, both when i was a county/District cllr and now iv been happy to post on here, as have continued to do so.
I did withdraw for a while when things became to personal, and I can see at times if you don't share barryw rose tinted glasses view then as he says you are a scum bag?
I thank you paulb for correcting that, i'v always said there are many hard working local politicians from all political parties and non political parties, all working for the gd of the area.
On the national scene there are also hard working people again from all poliitical parties.
SO WHY DO I RAISE THIS?
Well, our barryw only feel he's right, i'v never done that, I respect every one(even barry)has a right to post, and applaud those that do, but that doesn't mean i have to agree with them.
Even i recognise that my true left wing views labour won't ever return to, likethe tories labour wants to be in power, and will do anything to achieve this.
Also as barryw knows you can't do much in opposition.
I will always bee a labour man, but one happy to listen to any point of view whatever party/area it may come from
no one has all the answers(as much as barryw tries to convince otherwise)
I listen(post if required) but most of all respect peoples right to post.
- Keith, Will you immediately withdraw your claim that I referred to other posters here as scumbags, I did not do so.
It was Ouseis who made such a comment and I corrected him in that (as did PaulB)
An apology is in order. Once again you do not properly read what is posted and address that. - Good morning each and Barry,
I doubt very much that a phrase anything like 'left wing' has ever crossed my lips or been pressed out on my keyboard.
It was I who made mention of 'scumbag', I shall set out my reasons below.
[I may well have said some of this before]
Along with a deep disgust for Party Politics, dismay at the yawning gap beween Politics and we--the--people there is shock as to the degree of public participation with General Elections.
I see as the best way forward on all these fronts is to get the turn out at elections far nearer 100% than any of the partys would like. Voter apathy is the best friend of the Political Party. You will have heard what has been said recently with regard to the Glasgow by-election. A resounding victory with but 33% turnout. Need I say more on this point?
I have been commenting on Politics blogs for some time. I have seen the frustrations of folk just like me expressed through this medium. What I have not seen is any real way forward to bring us out of this present 'sorry pass'. I determined to do something possitive, all by myself, in the only way open to me. Through Politics Blogs.
I searched the UK for such, I still search for more of the same. This is what brought me from leafy north London to Dover. All praise to Barry; for without him Dover would never have appeared as an option.
Way back on the 8th of September last I struck out thus to correct the route our Democracy has taken over that the last twenty years or so and to do this by engageing with my fellow electors around the country. It is early days yet and I am not alone on the web with Political Reform in mind.
"By their deeds shall ye know them."
The Blues, we know of old and they were there when our economy went down the tubes recently.
The Reds, we know them also by the disregard they have for us as people etc. [it is shame-making to rehash their works]
The Yellows, well they have had years to make their impact...and we are still waiting.
With all this in mind I devised this slogan...
"Vote for option 4 or more."
To begin to stir my neighbours into action on their own behalf. I say; Stand; or support a Local Independent to take the voice of your community into Parliament.
I have more to say (natch) but it is not my way to usurp this, Barry's, space.
Well, yes their may well be decent folk in politics. It is true too that Prostitutes and some Nazis have a heart of gold. True but in no way good enough!
If there were to be a left leaning blog here they too would get the same message from me as does Barry and his readers.
Thank you all, again, for your time and your interest.
P.S.
Over the years we have seen governments of this colour and that come and go. Yet in all this time the make-up of Parliament has stayed much the same. That MUST change. - Barryw on the scumbag part i whole heartedly apologise.
on the rest of the article i disagree
hope that puts the record in order - I think I can tell you that 80%that I will be standing at the next G/E for U.K.I.P. I am at this time in talks with them but will know on Thursday day night after a meeting I have to go to which is not in Dover but if that goes O.K. then I will be standing for them in Dover next MaY.
Barry this your blog but I think you might wish to say something on that. I have been told that inland in the U.K, that U.K.I.P. have been taking seats off the reds and blues in some local By-Election for the councils, so I think it will be a good fight next year and i hope a fair one,with it all bing about the partys and what they can or can not do, and no hiting at the candidates past . Last time round as you know I was in it on my own with no back up of a party it was fair and all the meetings we went to when it was our turn to get up and talk it was done very well with out any unfair play.
And I think the blues in Dover will not make it mate. - some very interesting news there victor, throws the whole dover constituency into the melting pot.
the blues will be most distressed. - vic
You know my view, and with or without UKIP you are unlikely to have any impact as a UKIP candidate.
What may happen is you could take votes away from Reds/blues enough to scupper other parties being elected, but is that the best reason to stand?
It Is all about democracy and your right to stand, but i'm not hearing a heavy swell of people wanting to change to UKIP or more so yourself, and whilst you don't want your past results raised, it is a fact that it is something you have struggled with losing so many local elections even one where you lived.
So I do wonder why you feel people will suddenly all change there minds and vote for you?
They are even more likely to vote for one of the 3 main parties.
- In this Constituency the fight will be Lab/Con, the LibDems will be squeezed while any others will gain mainly protest votes, and they will mainly be Labour protestors. There is enough evidence now for us to see thatbthe tactical voting will work in favour of The Conservatives.
I suspect, Vic, as a UKIP candidate you may get enough protest votes just to save the deposit but even thet is touch and go. Any votes other than Lab/Con will not determine the outcome. - Good morning each and Barry,
Protest votes?
Much of what you talk of Barry is how bad the Reds are doing. What is this other than seeking people to vote for the Blues in 'protest' at the Reds?
What about the people?
Should the turn out be much higher than last time all calculations as who shall gain the seat will be thrown out.
It is high time that all the votes were counting for something. We all could do with less talk of "resounding victory", with but 17% of the vote, as in Glasgow.
If it is to be a fair fight surely all candidates should be trying to get all the constituencies voters out?
Dover, being at the sharp end of things to do with our being part of Europe, is the perfect place for UKIP to try out it's platform in the race for seats in Parliament.
From Matcham to Catch-em to Thrash-em?
I see the headlines even now Vic.
- UKIP have tried before, Oudeis.
There is an old truism, Governments lose elections, Oppositions dont win them....
People are fed up to the hind teeth with this Government and want rid of them. The obvious and only vote to do that is Conservative, what the Tories need to do is to turn a negative vote into a more positive one in order to get as big a working majority as they can.
The polling lead has been standing steady at 14% for two months now from more than one polling company (remarkably consistent, almost unprecedented). Cameron must get the share of the vote though up from 40% to 42% or more to ensure a solid majority. - barry/keith
the evidence clearly shows that the UKIP do affect the outcome of many elections.
to underestimate them is folly, especially the blues.
remember this is a marginal. - But they cannot win, only have a marginal impact on the fringes, as do LibDems/Greens and other independents. The battle is a Lab/Con one in Dover, everyone knows this. A vote for them will only let in Lab or Con... the likleyhood is that tactical voting, abstentions and proteest votes this time will work out in favour of the Conservatives.
- Barry,
You are entirely correct in what you say, but only in as far as the disgust in the current lot does not mean a disgust with both Red and Blue, if not with the whole of the Commons.
We all know that you (Blue) rely just as heavily as do the Reds on people swallowing the notion, once again that the only choice for Government is one or the other of you bedfellows.
I do not consider myself as any sort of pioneer, people all around the country are sick to death of this lack of choice at the ballot. You Blues have your drum, the Reds have theirs. The public, however may this time forego the 'war-dance' of this old-style politics and may prefer to dance to a tune all of their own.
How would Dave etc. deal with a hung parliament where the Reds are their closest ally? - i do not think that you are as confident as you are making out barry.
the ukip will take votes from the blues.
that is what they always do, they have strong appeal to blue voters who feel let down by the blues over europe.
to tell them that the party is eurosceptic will mean nothing to them, it is just a word.
they want action are not seeing any. - I have just been reading in the old papers of the last G/Election hear in Dover.
As you all know I have been down this road before.
It said in one local that Vic MATCHAM will not get in but at last nights meeting he was the best talker of the night .Also after the Election one paper had in it Vic Matcham did not do well and only got 695 votes but they were votes for him and not a party.
This time round yes Barry I am in a party but I still will be saying what I think is right and i hope that is the same way as the public will see it to, I will not be saying what the party has told me to say.
Last time Barry I will say this that I did do alot of foot work and in the steets I was being told that they were fed up with both of the main partys,this time we know now that is still the same even more so,but I do think that I took seats off the blues more then I did red,OK you might say but it was only 695votes anyway.Barry this time round it will be alot more I am real looking forward to going head to head with both of the main partys.I have alot more time on my hands this time +the backing and some funding from a very good party. - Barry,
I may steer Sir David Attenborough your way. You are so fixed in your ways. The whole matter is close to that of the Galapagos Islands. The Blue tortoise on one island the Red tortoise on another. If only you were turtles you could move on.
You do a very good job, Barry, of keeping the Blue end up, but the people are on the move. Those who care about polls do not exist in the numbers that could bring a clear win for the Blues or the Reds. Nor are people who may care about polls content with taking the figures at face value, not this time.
"Strength of character".
Which one is that? Punch or Judy?
Then there is Swaffham. - really barry, what have i told you about reading the guardian.?
say three hail marys and flagellate yourself with copies of the express and mail.
you will feel better for it.
- Thanks for the advice howard......
- Good afternoon each and Barry.
"I pray that the blessing of Almighty God may rest upon your counsels."
So Barry are you to struggle against crown and heaven?
Not for Gordon, Dave or Elizabeth II any mention of what the people may think of it all. Just where is Democracy to begin?
The prime directive, we are told is for continual growth. Boom, boom as that fox used to put it.
As you point out there was nothing in the speech so there is little can be said. All that is left now is for the Blues to roll out that EII impersonator to expound their own 'aspirations'. I may then have to find the Pearly Queen to make mention of what the people would prefer to see result from the next election.
All in all a non-event. - i did not expect a postive report on this one, but have to admit that the last 2 bullet pointed comments are correct.
- Howard. Are you then suggesting in respect of the first bullet point that a Government needs to legislate specifically to manage its budget?
Callaghan did not need to legislate back in 1977 when the IMF told him to make cuts, he just did it and, in fact, made real cuts to budgets, something Mrs T did not actually do in her time, despite the myths. - barry
all that stuff goes right over my head, i have to admit.
i hear all the catchphrases such as "quantative easing", sounds to me like a dose of syrup of figs is needed.
i never saw the queens speech, i understand that it was very good and promised that elderly people would be able to stay in their own homes when care was needed.
that did impress me, so much so, that i have started unpacking my cases. - No chance of it being enacted in this Parliament or the next, Howard - it would be far too costly. This was annoucned only to try to wrongfoot the Conservatives and to trump the Conservative proposal from the Conference.
It is a cruel deceit just for a political purpose. - Further to the post below.
A PH100 survey of political insiders gives that bill ony a 26% chance of passing into law.
Only one bill is expected by a majorty to get passed, thats a child poverty bill.
Here is where you can find the survey.
://page.politicshome.com/uk/the_queen%E2%80%99s_speech_which_bills_are_most_likely_to_be_passed%3F.html
you need to copy and paste it, URLs not allowed, put http in front - just looking at that shot of her majesty again.
has she nodded off?
no criticism meant, i think i would do the same if i had to read out a politicians statement. - I have my meeting tomorrow night I will let you know after if I am standing for U.K.I.P. next year or not.I have been told it does look that way but we wait and see.
- I thought it was all done and dusted Vic re UKIP. You seemed to indicate earlier that it was definitiely happening. I think thats the impression members got, but as we see now it all depends on tonights meeting. There may be several candidates wanting the nomination.
- Good morning each and Barry,
[Vic did say 80% certain-good luck Vic]
The Queen asleep? I did wonder whether she would spend the rest of the day with a neck brace. That must be the heaviest crown in her wardrobe. Poor thing.
This 'care' proposal was eye-wash through and through. "Those in most need..." Who is to say what that is? Just plain drivel.
And still no "Clear blue water." Between the two main Partys. A little ray of sunshine as to a hung Parliament, clearly Red and Blue have a pact to keep oneanother's crimes to themselves. Hence the expenses proposals are left as a political football.
One big con-trick after another.
The people have far more of a choice than this double-team. City and United without the entertainment. - The is an ocean of clear blue water, Oudeis, make no mistake....
- I am told all it is to cross the T and dot the I,but you are right untill tonight and I am told then I am standing you could be right but I am told that will not happen.
- Barry,
Whatever divide there may be between the Blue and the Red is bridged comprehensively by a mutual regard that sets them all apart from the electorate. The partys are like dogs fighting over a bone. This has gone on so long than none of them knows quite why they do it. Except...
They each wish to say, "It is my ball, we shall play by my rules."
There is no place for we--the--people, but once every five years. - Oudeis you are so very right,it is down to the public that is why all must turn out,I must say in the past it is the reds that turn out better then the blues,but I hope you will see good points in me when I get going,which will be soon,after tonight I have one more meeting to go to just to let the members meet up with me and we will take it from there,but you do very good posts even if you do not vote for me,Barry I hope to meet up with you soon and maybe I can win you over to.
I am a very good talker. - Vic - I may agree with you and UKIP on the EU and I may also agree with a lot of UKIP policies as they are very much coming from the viewpoint of the traditional Conservative right, where I stand.
BUT - you will never get me to vote other than for the Conservatives because I am not interested in a side show. The name of the game is power and Government and we must rid ourselves of this useless Labour administration.
Politics is about compromise, to govern you must have a broad church that can attract votes accross the spectrum. I am happy and willing to compromise while influencing policy to the right as far as I can. In that way I can have a much greater say in the direction this country goes in than exclusing myself from the mainstream. You just have to accept that you dont get your own way all the time. The great British compromise.
UKIP will never govern because they appeal to a narrow streak of opinion, they can only damage the anti-Labour vote. Better if UKIP members joined the ranks of the Conservative Party to add weight to those of us on the right and help push the policy of the next Conservative Government towards a more rigerous anti-EU stand. - barry
ukip will continue to prosper, i cannot see the benefits of them defecting to the blues.
of course they are a single issue party, but that single issue matters rather a lot to some people previously conservative voters.
for example, a couple of weeks ago in huntingdon, a council seat was up for grabs.
the blues issued an election address in polish to appeal to that large section of the population.
nett result blues vote down by 19% ukip up by 14% even the reds and libdems gained slightly. - that is the second time you have made me laugh recently barry.
is this the new you, or have you been purchasing smoking requisites from someone that does not keep books or pay vat? - Just to let you know it is a yes I will now be standing for U.K.I.P. next May
- Barry, if I may...
Well done Vic, but I wouldn't pin your hopes on having until May to wait. - Barry I think the Conservatives would want an election sooner but only perhaps for the simple reason that the polls are beginning to turn. Not a huge turn yet but the gap between the parties has narrowed with Labour showing some regurgitated life. One minute they are dead and buried, yet the next minute we see a revival...of sorts.
So if the polls are moving in their direction then rushing towards an election would be poor tactics. It shows how fickle it all is, as we said on the recent poll thread in main forum. Brown gets a good couple of PR weeks and a serious boost is recorded.
Because the general public perceive little differences between the parties, despite politicos telling us otherwise, the PR aspect plays a bigger role in the outcome. A couple of good weeks on TV and who knows what might happen. - No PaulB. the Polls have been remarkably stable at around a 13-14% gap for a long time now with odd exceptions in both directions, higher and lower.
There has been one poll this weekend showing a mere 6% gap but analysis by Prof Anthony King has demonstrated that this is an 'outer' with a much higher sampling of 2005 Labour voters than is normal, so the weighting they applied had a disproportionate effect. This kind of this does sometimes happen.
The truth is that as the QS showed this Government is going no-where and is not even starting to address the severe problems we have. They are governing for themselves and not the country. - Good morning each and Barry,
Dean Swift had it right all those years ago with his tale of constant struggle between those who opened their boiled eggs from the small end and those who preferred the big end.
It is good of you Barry to state clearly that the Tories are dead set that cuts are the only way. Yet a time of bridge building is not the time for elections. There is only one poll that matters and we now are never far away from it, but no words of hope yet.
Where now are the cries of Labour stealing Tory policies that have marked politics over the last five years? The plain truth is that both Blue and Red were in Parliament throughout our economic decline, but neither accepts responsibility for any of the 'wrong' policies thrashed out between them. All too busy counting their own blessings.
The one ray of light in the past week is Dave's mention of "emergency budget". This leaves any and all manifesto promises as aspirational as the Queen's speech.
All that the Red and the Blue have for slogans is...
"Vote for me, I'm not him." - Conservative and Labour do not thrash out policies between them Oudeis. You ignore the very different drivers that inform the policies of each Party. Just look at the types of people that tend to dominate: Labour, social workers, teachers and even still some Trade Unionists. Conservatives, business people and military people dominate. Each group with very different outlooks and attitudes and while objectives may often be the same the way of achieving them are very different.
Yes, Labour have often stolen Conservative clothing, they did so in the early 90's and again in recent years. That though is not out of any belief in the policies but is only for electoral need. When they try to emulate the policies into action (sometimes they do that, but more often not, they just talk a good game) they implement watered down versions or screw them up simply because they dont really understand what it is about. - Further to the Mori poll that provided the informaton on which PaulB based his comment on, more evidence has come to light that places this poll in a very different perspective.
The fieldwork for the poll was taken at the same time as 3 others which gave the Tories a 13% and two 14% leads round about the 13th November. It needs to be judged alongside the other three polls.
The Guardian withheld the results for a week to highlight Mori's findings to create the greatest impact. Media manipulation in the hope of selling newpapers and creating the wrong, Labour boosting, impression.
It can therefore be classed a a rogue right now without further evidence. - the mori poll showed 15% voting for "other".
this i find very interesting, what is the spread of the "other" vote?
a vote of that size can seriously affect a constituency result.
i haven't noticed the size of the "other" vote in the polls that barry refers to. - The MORI methodology has that as another impact Howard. That particular poll is now so discredited that it is not worth any kind of discussion.
I am sure though that DC will be grateful for it. We must not allow people to think we will just romp home, thats no way to get the anti-government vote out to the polling booth. - Barry,
Could you really be reaching out for 'protest' votes?
But, what is this. A new poster.
This tells me I have nothing in common with any popular culture. The message ends rather strangely though.
DEADWOOD Conservatives.
Don't Gordion and Alistair look young and so, so vital?
- Oudeis, I dont care where votes come from to be frank. The priority is to get that deadwood out of no10 and no11 before they do too much more damage.
Personally I think they look a right pair of pansies in the poster.... - hardly politically correct barry!!
more importantly, the polls you speak of, what is the normal count for "other"?
this could be very important next spring. - You know me and politically correct, the less the better..... or rather the least pc the better.....
You should look at sites like politicalbetting.com or UK Polling Report where they do a lot of polling analysis, Howard. You will find it explained there. It is interesting to see polls taken apart and have what is 'under the bonnet' explained by experts. They are on links from politicshomes.com whenever a poll appears, that is a great website for keeping up with events generally. - Good evening each and Barry,
Yea! Flaming unions, I ask you where is their industry now? Who do these unions think they are? The Tories did not get rid of manufacturing just so the home-helps and bottle washers could form themselves unions to keep this sordid sort of thing up!, Who do they represent now eh!; dole scroungers? With their health and safety and 'new-parent' holidays.
Far better to get the funds through lobbyists. We may never know where this money comes from, but that is the Conservative way. The banks and big business too know where their brioche is buttered.
Whereas the Independents would rather envolve the community in getting their message across. No better recommendation than word of mouth. Who asked them? - Thats the problem here barryw
those 55% of donors to tory party will seriously influence tory policies and maybe not what the people want, but more what the donors want
so a real backward step - Have said all along that labours revival will start an the more DC opens his gob, or other tories come out of the woodwork to be the REAL face of the tories then labours revival will improve and improve.
All along I expected labour to get a thrashing, but now i can see the tide changing and like hestletine can see labour winning by a few or a hung parlianment. so GB will go when country and he is ready
and wont play politics - Good morning each and Barry.
Could there ever be enough trees to turn to paper for these competing wish lists?
While it is delightful to see two people enjoy themselves on the sea-saw. You both, Barry & Keith, must realise that everybody else is playing their own game out in the Party-free meadow. Paying little heed to the squeaking and screaching of your fulcrum. Come play, do. In the real world where all know they have heard all this guff before.
Are the Reds assured of blanket funding from the Unions? I think not. - Barry,
All praise for this positive input.
I live in a labour council area. They seem to have done away with separate bins and now all metals and all colours of glass go in the one bin. Paper is separate for the time being.
This idea of 'yours', though, still requires 'snooping', which is a shame. I am not taken by the insulation innovation though. Far too wooly as to costs.
What I do wish to see is the reversing of the present domestic energy pricing policy. At present cost goes down with increased use, this should change so that the amount of energy we all need to get by should be at the lowest rate. Anybody who cannot deliver that is not fit to govern, in my view. No snooping envolved either. - Interesting point on energy costs Oudeis. I am not sure what you would describe as 'what we all need to get by on'. That is a movable feast, the elderly would need more than those people who go out to work all day. Try defining it for families of different sizes too. Not so simple as you think perhaps....what about those of us who live in listed properties who have other limitations/problems with egergy efficiency as well. Too many variables.
- this insulation idea seems a bit half baked, i cannot see many firms taking the risk.
they do all the work up front, then wait for a few years to start recouping.
they would need to see the householders bills going back a then, keep checking the new ones.
then the arguments would start about whether windows had been left open, whether the householder had altered the thermostat on the heating, many more things like that. - Howard - this scheme has been canvassed among firms and it is a potential goer.... The long term profits are potentially huge.
- Good morning each and Barry,
Not so Barry.
At present this calculation is there and glaring.
Energy costs get lower as the usage goes up. What thinking is envolved in making energy costs go UP with usage?
We are charged a high rate to boil a kettle but a lower rate to floodlight our acres, to maintain the home warm enough to prance about naked throughout the year. The point at which one begins to pay less per unit could still be the point where one begins to pay more.
Perhaps this whole thing is too easy? - Yes I think the population at large will welcome new faces. I looked in at Prime Ministers Questions the other day and you still see the same old scandal ridden gobs cluttering up your peripherel vision...like Alan Duncan and so on. So the more of these types we can lose the better in my view. So after the next election, and a hung parliament is being talked about more and more, we should see many more faces who might just have an eye on doing the job and not an eye on lining the pockets with rubber bath plug receipts and super dodgy second home claims.
Never has the reputation of MP's been so low, this is a great pity for our democracy, which we often hold up as a flagship ideal to the rest of the world. However in time it will recover....but its like trying to turn one of those supertankers around...its all done very slowly. But better slower than not at all. - Good morning each and Barry.
I make it that (as in 2005), there are five 'shoo-ins', three with a bit of a fight with the LDs and five where the sitting majority is less than half the number of non-voters.
Not time yet to give up the day job for a few of these. We both know, Barry that your definition of 'real world' and mine are not so similar.
I was a little surprised too that I had never heard of many of those who are to stand down. If the five above do make it, would we notice?
I hear that another of your PPCs is set to begin to pay tax here. If only the titled money men would do the same. Have the LDs hit the right note now with mansions over two million set to feel the pinch? - PaulB,
There is no hope of recovery for our Democracy while all that is proposed is the changing of the officers. Swapping Ahab for Bligh; Marie Celeste for the Titanic.
Come to think of it. Puting the Tories in charge is more like giving the helm to the passengers.
It's about time the crew had a voice in Parliament. Less talk of Port and Starboard and more 'full steam ahead'. - PaulB - Dont bet any money on a hung Parliament. The polling evidence demonstrates significantly higher swings in the key marginals where the election will be won or lost.
The uniform swing model is a poor predictor. - still the same clique of professional types for the most part.
looking at the backgrounds there, i reckon that 3 at most have worked somewhere under pressure of the sack if target figures are not met.
most of our working population are under that pressure whether they work in an office, factory, shop etc.
there is no-one there that they can identify with. - They are high quality and successful people, Howard, exactly the kind of people we need to run the country. People who have been successful in different ways, business, law, the forces, medicine, banking and so on. We need high calibre people like that.
- Quite right Barry, the leader of Hammersmith and Fuham Coucil summed it up beautifully. At a recent meeting he said some of them could'nt organise a 'p..s up in a brewery'. Whoops sorry he was talking about the shadow cabinet.
- barry
you are missing the point i am trying to make.
have they pulled themselves up to the top or had an easy start?
i looked at the profile of the first 3 listed, for some reason, where they came from, educational background was non existent.
funny i thought!!
then i went on to the fourth one, comprehensive school, then went on to oxford and harvard, exactly what the blues would like to promote.
we are not that gullible, the two top people are both eton and oxford, how can they represent the rest of us? - Alan, he was making was a badly made comparison with US politics and its one that simply does not work. Suggesting that American Presidents will all have run something, unlike most British politicians, such as a US State or a large business. Obama himself was a mere Senator and a professional politician so this geezer made a right idiot of himself.
Similarily what he said about the shadow cabinet also does not bear close inspection. After all DC himself has been running the Conservative party for several years bring it to the verge of power, some would say that he has been very successful in that!
Howard - I do get your point and it is one I totally disagree with. The people highlighted have had successful careers outside politics and have run businesses/departments/ military units and so on. These are exactly the kind of people we need to run the country, not pleb ex shopfloor workers who would not know the PSBR from their elbow.
Me, howard, I left school at 15, educated in the University of Life. Why you have this snobbish inferiority complex towards people who went to Eton (if indeed they did) is a mystery to me. Me, I am truly egalitarian and consdier them to be my equals and just as good as me.... - mrs thatcher would have hauled you over the coals barry, she was a grocers daughter that promoted a meritocracy.
you have got it wrong over my "snobbish inferiority complex".
i have read through all of the candidates profiles now and the blues have omitted to mention the background of all but the one that went to a comprehensive school.
why is that?
they all have been given safe seats to carry on the old school system. - And these candidates are in the position they are in because of merit. Where they went to school is utterly irrelivant they are all successful people in their own right, three doctors, three business people, two ex-armed forces, three who have had careers in the law, a banker, the other led a think tank. The latter perhaps could be regarded as a non-job but she is very highly regarded in her field.
Why is it that so many from the left hate people who have a different background to them? No howard, I dont have it wrong at all, this obsession about someone's background is sad and a reflection on them. - I think what Howard is driving at there is the closeted very comfortable fast track life that exists for old Etonians.
There was a programme very recently on C4 called...When Boris met Dave and it showed the kind of life these guys have..already while at school they are already scheduled into the higher echelons of Politics and of course of only one party. Its a very comfortable path of good times, considerable wealth, no real job interviews ever but a preplanned old boy network route which is 'de rigeur'.
As Ive said myself in the past they have experienced nothing of life in the real world, of life in the housing estates of Rochdale, Blackburn or anywhere south of that.
This is not a left wing chip on shoulder, i think its just stating a broad obvious situation quite clearly. Sure, while in power they can accomodate thoughts of Rochdale but its very much from afar in social and physical terms. - ‘Out of touch’ ehhh…… well let’s read a bit more about some of these.
Fiona Bruce:
"…. the head of a community law firm in Warrington and a national winner of Small Business Bureau's businesswoman of the year award "Women into Business" for the founding and successful development of a business. ………… has helped establish a primary school in Tanzania and still oversees a free legal advice clinic "The Drop In", Latchford which has opened weekly for the past 18 years. In 2009 she was co-founder of an innovative, comprehensive advice centre at "The Foundry Shop", Widnes, offering free legal advice and support on key issues of debt, drug abuse, teenage pregnancy, family and relationships."
Dr. Daniel Poulter:
“….Led a scheme with local businesses providing work for 10 unemployed people under the age of 25. Facilitated funding for local charities to help residents affected by the recession. Established 3 new Resident Associations in Redhill in 2009. As Executive Member for Economic & Social Regeneration and Transport: Reigate & Banstead Council (2007-09). Won a £5.8 million Government regeneration grant and delivering a new Bus Station in Redhill, a new express bus service for East Surrey and major A23 road improvements.
Dominic Raab:
“Born and raised in Bucks, Dominic went to Dr Challoners Grammar School in Amersham. He studied law at Oxford and for a Masters at Cambridge, winning the Clive Parry Prize for International Law. Outside the lecture halls, Dominic captained the university karate team and boxed……..started his career as an international lawyer at Linklaters, a law firm in the City, working on project finance, international litigation and competition law. He also spent time on secondments at Liberty (the human rights NGO) and in Brussels advising on EU and WTO law.
Claire Perry:
…was educated at Nailsea comprehensive school and went on to read Geography at Oxford, before taking an MBA at Harvard. Before working for George Osborne, she worked at Credit Suisse First Boston, McKinsey and Bank of America.
Steve Baker:
“…… in the Royal Air Force as an engineer officer working with Tornado, Jaguar and the Adour aero engine. This took me all over the world, leading teams of up to 110 people, from Alaska to Hong Kong and Arctic Norway to Egypt and Oman. …… Working in partnership with Toby Baxendale, Dr Tim Evans and Dr Anthony Evans, I have established The Cobden Centre, an educational charity for social progress through honest money, free trade and peace. I have been instrumental in assembling a team of academics, entrepreneurs, banking practitioners and aspiring parliamentarians capable of formulating, advocating and delivering the banking reforms we need…..An Associate Consultant to The Centre for Social Justice, …….. working in Wycombe Winter Night Shelter during Winter 08/09, and previously in an Oxford day centre……Married to Beth, a senior officer in the Royal Air Force medical branch. ….. supported Beth through service in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere. …..was born to working class parents in Cornwall, where I attended a great comprehensive school and a state sixth form college..
I should think Paul and Howard that you feel a bit silly now. That is just the few from the top of the list and I am sure if I were to do just a little digging into the others we would find a range of skills and experience that would be invaluable in Parliament. I am also sure that your now obviously silly claim of Eton attendance will be further destroyed....
Two of those went to Comprehensives (not one), one a Grammar, I did not bother to look into the education background of the others... it simply has no relevance. - Good morning each and Barry.
With all these with so much undoubted prowess fighting safe-ish seats. I can hardly wait to hear of the saintliness and magic powers of the other 630 odd Tory PPCs. Unless thirteen is the likely number of Tory MPs after the next election.
Oh, and there may be other stalwart fellows standing for other partys and none. Some of these will have the distinct advantage of not being associated with either Blue or Red. Finally, do we not suffer even now from there being more expertise in 'man-management' than leadership by example in the House of Commons?
P.S. Shall we be hearing of the risk-takers, those running in marginals and the safe seats of the other Partys? In Dover/Thanet etc.? - PaulB - further to my previous post I did a bit of Googling.
Under MacMillan in the 50's around 80 Tory MPs went to Eton, about 20% of the total.
The best estimate I have found is that the number of Old Etonians, including DC, on the Tory benches is likely to rise from 15 to 18, thats under 6 per cent of the 300 or so Tory MPs likely to be elected.
Incidentally: according to Iain Dale, 15.75 per cent of daily and Sunday newspaper political editors are Old Etonians.
Can we now finally move on from this absurdity of who went where to school. - I went to Astor and it is a good school to.
- As did I Vic.....
- Good morning each and Barry.
What joy it is to be in the EU.
With New Labour's continued lack of will to regulate the City and their desire to look like leaders and statesmen in giving power over to the EU; the job is to be done for them. I read today that...
In a speech in the south of France, Mr Sarkozy said the appointment of Michel Barnier was a victory for European economic modelling.
"Mr Barnier's role as Europe’s new internal markets commissioner gives him power over financial regulatory reform, with France seen as favouring a tough stance on issues like bonuses and curbs on hedge funds."
What shall the new government have to work at? Our new Government may carry on as normal and continue to treat the public as the enemy; should the choice be only between Blue and Red. It will take a conserted effort from the public to broaden the scope of representation within Parliament.in order that there be enough for them to do. Such issues as Electoral Reform, fixed-term Parliaments, a written constitution and much else to broaden the options at election time.
Whatever has been given over to the EU there is still much to do on the Democratic front within our own borders. We the people should begin this process at the next election by voting other than for the big three and voting to send a local voice to Parliament. Politics is simply too important to be left in the hands of the few. The few selected and promoted like any other 'brand'. Let it be; People before Party.every time. - Good morning Barry,
So. Somebody puts a hole in the dam, comes back later to crow that the rate of leakage has increased and blames everybody else for that increase? Too, too clever.
To Corby, what a wonderful place to begin. This should be a constant news story closer to the election with the Tories about %3 behind Labour in 2005. It would take the memory of an Elephant to recall which bit of prosperity to assign to theTories though with Labour at the helm for the last twelve years. The then Blue candidate was a man perhaps ahead of his time with his; "Independent voice" approach. I wonder what story the next candidate will tell?
Yes. Let us keep our eyes on Corby between issues closer to the SE coast. - Oudeis.I think you right about having a "Indepentent"voice approach.As you know I will be standing in Dover for U.K.I.P. and at a big meeting Saturday I told Lord Pearson and Mr NIGEL fARAGE THAT WE MUST GET OUT TO THE PUBLIC that U.K.I.P. is not all about the E,U, but the party has a U,K. policy aswell, and I am hoping that will come out over the next few weeks,and Barry you should not at this being a walkover for the Blues at Dover,there is still a lot to play for and all partys need to work hard,and also the voters need to turn out this time round and vote like they have never voted before, the U.K. must get it right this time,and it is all down to the Gen/public.
- Anyone who saw Panorama last night will have seen two things about current politics.
One was how hard it is to get rid of politicians who refuse to go...the programme featured the awful Hazel Blears last night in unsavoury mode. Somehow she has managed to get her local body to back her again in the next election. She came across as extremely shifty as she stubbornly refused to have anything to do with the Panorama team. I once thought she was pretty good, on top of things, good PR performer, but then came the horrible expense revelations and then the even more horrible and totally unforgiveable 'rocking the boat' badge. She weilded this badge at a time when her party needed her most. Unforgiveable treason.
The second thing about current politics made me think of Oudeis. It was the sheer abysmal state of the independents that were standing at elections, particularly at the recent Glasgow By-Election. They are a joke..a vote for these 'people' people is just wasted completely. No hopers with no idea, no team around them and no chance of ever doing any good even if by some miracle they got to Westminster. - Paul I can not agree on that one sorry.
- the indies did indeed look a shambles in that edition of panorama.
there are probably many that are serious contenders, such as that journalist chap with the white suits.
the programme proved nothing in my eyes, just confirmed the shiftiness of ms blears and the fact that we have eccentrics that appear at election time. - That looks like an upsidedown hockey stick graph.
- Ah now BarryW...you know those pictures were taken long after Alastair Darling had sat down. There was a full house for the pre Budget speech itself. Those pix are a fair while after the event and the only ones in near full attendance in the shots above are the LibDems, as its their Vince Cable speaking.
- PaulB - look at the bottom photo - the empty benches behind Darling while he was speaking.
The point is that his own backbenchers did not hang around to support him when the tough questions started. As soon as their minimal duty of being there for the statement was over they scarpered.... - the bit i have read suggests that it was all very much a damp squib.
no sane government would bring out major cuts so close to an election, i think that our honourable members thought it would be more useful to go christmas shopping.
clearly the blues would like an election sooner rather than later, march would be preferable, better chance of a large majority.
march is a non starter, the reds traditionally benefit from a large turnout, the weather is likelier to be better in may.
the polls have steadied, labour slightly improving, they will see this as a trend. - Like I say forget the polls, I will explain why in my next blog howard. Written ready for once the PBR has been up a few days.
Do not under estimate the potential for March. this PBR will prove to be a disaster for Labour and the budget will have a lot more bad news, likewise there is a strong chance that the economy will moving into a dip in Q1 something Brown wont want announced just before polling... - The sheer political cynisism and sleight of hand contained in the budget detail is now starting to emerge.
The Government is says its protecting NHS spending, but there will be a real cut in NHS spending. It will take a £446 million cost from the increased in employers' National Insurance.
Then there is a 1.5% rise in some benefits before the election - these same benefits are then cut the following year. - confused me there barry, how will trhe increase in employers N.I contributions cut nhs spending?
on your second point, i have seen no report of benefit cuts for the following year, are you saying that georgie osborne has already prepared his spending plan? - Its in the detail of the PBR howard. If the NI increase is not funded by extra cash, which it is not, then it needs to come out of the NHS budget, a cut.
Likewise the benefit increase is clawed back after the potential election date and was identified by the Institute of Fiscal Studies from the small print. - Love the picture of Brown. Is this an attempt for David Cameron to resurrect his ludicrous "hug a hoody" statement. Perhaps Cameron might even give him a little peck on the cheek, now that would excite the electorate.
- are you saying that it is good for the blues to have much more money to spend in order to gain power barry?
- merely stating a fact of life Howard.
Financial resources are of major importance to political Parties. Labour have lost their big donors and are falling back on the Unions. They have managed their own finances nearly as badly as they have manged the country's and as a result they are nearly bankrupt. It happens when a Party gets onto a losing streak, it happened to us pre-1997 but to a lesser extent than to Labour. - Good morning each and Barry.
While I have found myself too busy lately to see much of the political coverage. We all know that it is not so much what you hear or what you know of the political scene, but only that which you can make sound positive that counts, is that not too true Barry?
Money.
Let us all savour that word...Money. Yum-yum.
Truely, it is not so much the love of money that motivates most people, but what having it allows one to do. "Money talks, but I am speachless." As my mother used to say.
The Blues have money, the Blues have a lead in the polls. These things are not unconnected, but how to keep the money coming in without the poll lead causing complacency. Yes indeed it is tough at the top.
Tough it may be, but while the 'battle' is portayed as one between the Reds and the Blues, matters could not be simpler.
Soon the battle shall be clearly seen as one between the Politicians and the people and then all bets will be off.
I have read here much derisive comments about the Independent in the recent Glasgow by-election. However, there it was mostly the people that did not do so well. Come the general election things could be very different indeed.
Once the fact that the ruinous condition of the country is seen to favour a politician and never the people folk may conclude that it is yet plain that politicians are only in it for themselves, with no regard as to what happens to the people.
- i think you are seeing something very diffreent to the rest of us barry.
to me, it is just a couple of desperate politicians playing soldiers for a vote catching photo call, whilst being protected by almost inpenetrable security.
no doubt the service personnel were clutching their sides with laughter watching the sad affair unfold. - Brown looks scared stiff, just look at how he is holding himself and his facial expressions. He is a fish out of water.
- that smacks of desperation barry, reminds me of an episode of "dads army" where captain mainwaring had a drawing of a german soldier on the wall, and was explaining about the "eyes being too close together" "weak chin" etc etc.
to everyone else they both look like children dressed up. - Lets not get to taken in with what we are looking at.The Blues leader has not been in the army and did not stay over night there like Mr Brown did.
And also do not get taken in with the lines under the story.We all know the blues were just there looking but can not do anything,it is all down to the PM,So I think we should not say anymore about the above,Barry again you have just lost more votes for them so thank you it will be a help to me. - What you see here are two men of completely different backgrounds. Gordon Brown, clearly a man who wears braces as well as a belt, has come equipped for no-nonsense action, ready to fly those new helicopters singlehandedly, his sole ambition is to strafe the Taliban before they scurry into their mountain bunkers and as an aside, to capture Bin Laden on the way home, and all before lunchtime too!
David Cameron on the other hand is clearly a chap who has asked his PR girl before going outside to meet the mighty media
"I say Penelope...do I look good in this!!?"
"Ever so good David...perhaps a little more Brylcreem though!"
"Hmmm Okay...(pauses for Brylcreem)
...........but can you have me back in Claridges before lunchtime!" - Very funny PaulB but you cant help but see the sheer terror in the face and body language of Brown. He is a fish out of water. It is funny looking at Brown, he just cant get anything right. We know he is at heart a pacifist who has no interest in the Armed Forces and is merely forced to show an interest because of his present position.
Brown is a great gift to the comedians in so many ways...
'I saved the world'
'an end to boom and bust' then the biggest ever bust
'0% growth'
To mention just a few things off the top of my head.
Now this picture - he just cant do anything right. I find him funny and am very embarrassed to have him as the PM. This, of course, is on top of his other basic and more substanial and important shortcomings in how he performs the PM role. I suppose it provides a bit of fun and light relief. - Paul Well said.Barry that is not the face of a man with sheer terror on his face but the face of a man that will not gave in .I am not a red but even i can see this man has done the best he can do he has not had a good time in office but stayed with it .i also see you did not say any thing about Mr Brown staying over night there when your great leader hoped on a plane and got out.
- You are very keen to be supportive of the worse PM and Chancellor in the history of the UK there Vic. When I last heard your (ex) leader, Farage, speak he seemed rather more of my view on the matter.
He may well have done his best but his best is simply not good enough to run a whelk stall let alone a country. - barry
when you started this political blog, everyone thought it would be about the issues of the day.
this particular one hardly encourages debate, we are not far away from an election. 3 months by your calculations, how about raising the profile of the blues and trying to put across why we should all sprint down to the polling stations trying to be the first to vote for them? - When you read some of the tosh Barry puts on here at times its little wonder that people are fed up with politics.
The blog has been reasonably interesting so far but this particular item beggars belief.
Come on Barry tell us all what actually the Conservative policies are where are they going to impose their cuts and why doesn't Cameron hold a referendum should he get into power? there is nothing from preventing him from doing so. - There you are Barry you have just cost the blues more votes again thank you,it is nice to have you working longside me going the way you are i will have nowork todo next time round it is all geting done for me.
- Good morning each and Barry.
No sign of ravine or mountain in either picture. Both could be shots of them walking down any high street in the near future. Again they could both have used a studio back-drop and saved us all some hard cash.
An overnight stay pales in comparison to a cup of tea on the front line which itself is something that 18 year olds do day in day out.
For the lack of an Afghan the photo-shoot was lost, for the want of a photo shoot the election is lost, for the want of any policy for the future hope is lost. Again; management rather than leadership. I do hope the ballot papers and the votes of these soldiers are to be counted along with the rest of us. Let us see just how much Xmas these particular turkeys will be voting for. - Chill out people, politics is winding down for Christmas and serious politics will resume in the New Year with what might be the longest general election campaign ever.
In the meantime no harm in a little fun at the expense of our hapless PM, it is the new national blood sport after all.
You never know, in the season of goodwill I might even find something good to say about him, dont know what but you never know... - Barry sounds like you are geting worred about it all you know that old saying"If you do not like the heat do not stand next to the fire."
- And lets forget the image thing, where cameron pretended to cycle to and from work and as soon as cameras out of sight he got into a car typical
- this is a problem for boy dave, he tries to come across as one of the chaps, doesn't work though.
i think that the public like him but he is considered to be just a puppet of the extreme right.
they want control once the nice bloke gets their party elected. - Define extreme right howard. Left and right are relative terms in politics. I count myself as being very much on the right, pro-hanging of murderers, pro far more serious sentencing for criminals, in favour of more defence spending, pro-Grammar schools, pro-streaming in schools, in favour of sound money policies and of free enterprise, anti-EU. I think most of that, alien to most Labour supporters, is pretty much mainstream. DC is not as right wing as me, I wish he was, but to suggest he is a puppet of the extreme right is simply fantasy.
- howard
your right(or left lol)
Yep DC is there until the right of the party regains control which they are slowly doing.
BarrY for the record im also for
1; better and more defense spending
2; Stronger sentences for guilty criminals
3; and sorting out the manic social security(one you didnt mention)
- Good morning each and Barry.
So much for the health service, education and 'social' security. Why bother with the hard choices when you can look hard to the rest of the world because, no matter how ones own people are suffering, we MUST retain our right to spread that suffering around.
The "Bottom Billion" I think 'we' are called. We the gunless. Is it any wonder that there is poverty in the world except for the gunsmith and his ilk.
Is there not also a big (secret) spend with Export Guarantees? You got to keep the despot satisfied?
Is this the Blues' idea of change? By out-killing the Reds?
Vote Blues, get bombs. Vote Tory, keep terror in the minds of the dusky-skinned.
The BNP voter in Dover shall be spoiled for choice. So much for Dave 'W' Cameron? - Keith - so what about the Labour Party and how that is now captured by the Left. Brown has turned away from the middle ground towards class warfare and an attack on asperation... We see the facts of that, it was in the PBR and in Brown's speeches and at PMQs.
Unlike your fantasy about the Conservatives.... - Tom - so you are an old fashioned disarmer and would leave us unable to deal with threats to our security.... I see....
- Barry-If the answer is 'kill' one must be asking the wrong question.
Surely, now and then this is true?
It is handy how a lack of education and gainfull employment feeds into the need for cannon-fodder. We should, in this the twenty first century, have better things to do. Childishness hangs around in we men; let us throw a party rather than a hissy-fit. Let us jaw-jaw rather than war-war. If the only voices heard are of the same opinion, being human would mean less than it should. - Tom
Do you mean a question like, what should be done with Adolph Hitler, or Pol Pot or Joe Stalin? The right answer would be kill, and to the right question....
The same exactly can be said today of the leaders of Al Qaida.... - Barryw
nice to see you didnt comment on my post, only decided to attack me and gordon b.
Gordon brown has stood up to D Cameron your correct and why not, but moving away from middle England and towards the left you are sadly mistaken(if only he would !!)
barryw you should be more worried that your friends are going to make your party unelectable by moving to far to the right which you know the public won't go with.
As much as DC tries to pretend they not out there, you and many others in your party make it clear the real intention is for the party to move to the right big time
frightening,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - Good morning each and Barry.
Barry-One question was; What to do about Sadaam?
The answer was to kill one million and one people. [not over yet]
We keep on trying to re-string one of our Pinocchios after another.
Keith-Rather the bully you know ? It was a supposed Labour government that waged aggressive war against a people that had no intention of harming us. If the leader of the Blues was Genghis Khan he would have a hard time to out-bully the Reds.
What both the Reds and the Blues lack is true Leadership. I would go as far as to say that any Political Party grants leadership to a good party manager and not inspired or inspiring individuals.
It is a lamentable lack of imagination from either party that shall seal their fate. Any fool can kill. - a "strong pacifist element" in the labour party barry?
not many would agree, they have managed to get us involved in more wars than the blues could manage.
on the subject of defence spending, i fully expect cuts from an incoming right wing government.
i would agree that money could be spent more wisely, the cost of trident is massive and could be spent on more effective "on the ground" equipment that is useful in the field of conflict.
it appears that we will be in afghanistan for the duration, no doubt before we finish there, we will be sending troops to join in a war somewhere elese. - Good morning each and Barry.
Defence chatter at conference, Barry? I fancy the degree of talk on this or that at conference is directly proportionate to sponsorship.
So, to be a member of the TA is a good thing politically. Is this not then making a virtue of necessity?
- Howard - it is a simply fact that there is a strong pacifist wing in the Labour Party, CND membership is and was a big thing for the left of Labour. Blair was once a CND member, until he grew up and realised the electoral and strategic truth.
This is the main reason Blair had to lie about Iraq, he was worried about getting his own Party to suppoprt him and could only undermine his pacifists by lies and exaggeration.
Tom - again you do not appreciate how important the issue of Defence is to the Tories emotionally and well as in a practical way. Cynisism is all well and good but you can take it too far. - barry
you are talking about the past here, what people done in their youth is irrelevant to later views.
you dislike references to thatcher's effects on society due to the time that has passed. - I am referring to current as well as past attitudes Howard. Policies can change but the core value drivers of a Party do not change. There remains a strong pacifist disarmament wing in the Labour Party.
- BAZ;
CND as howard says was very big within the labour party in the past, so much so it actually had control of the party, but in those days so did the active militant party.
It took a long time but times have moved on as have the majority of the CND/Militant members.
The other side of this is that labour was never electable under a CND banner something iv said for years and years.
The CND belief is a good one but in a real world things don't happen that way, so until we reach that day(dont think we ever will)we need to protet ourselves, that said should any country set off the nuclear stuff wont be many survivors anyway.
Also worrying how many countries have stuff ready to fire this way
- Good morning each and Barry.
Ho, ho, ho how come, as the overture to the longest election campaign all talk is of matters Foot; CND and unelectability etc.
Have the Blues got the blues?
Could I cheer you all up with talk of a 'representative' government? Rather than join you all in fond memories of past attempts at doing the right thing and failing. Time and tide wait for no man and all arguements of yesteryear will avail you nought this time around.
The Reds, the Blues and the Biege have failed us, we the people. Thinking of or talking as if we could all return to the days of former glories is futile. Why don't you all just sit this one out?
The past is another country and the future another again. Why the talk of the done and dusted? We are where we are, thanks to this hankering for the past. What the people need and what the people shall get at the next election is Democracy with a capital D. No more of these cosy fire-side reminiscences, but suited and booted for the tasks that lie ahead. The spanners and the hammers of yesterday avail us not at all with the re-tuning that must be done to the fundamentals of this so-called democracy. Never again shall the will of the people be discerned from the self-satisfaction of the political classes. The first decade of the new millennium is the last chance saloon for the old, cosy, all chums together, we know best, patronising (fraudulent) honourable members.
All hail the new 'representative' Parliament. All hail the voice of the people in Westminster. The next election shall show-up your Nukes as the squibs they are when compared to the will of the people in action.
Vote! Vote without a thought for the past and those that have brought us to this sorry pass.
...so shall begin the longest suicide note for the Red and the Blue. - Good morning each and Barry.
Turnout?
I expect this to be in the high nineties. I will be content with anything over eighty percent, but I want it higher.
While those of the political villiage and those 'fey-wives' from the outlying farmsteads of political comment are having so much fun we--the--people shall be watching.
I do not think, Barry, that your boast of financial superiority will sit well with the common hoard.
I do wonder if you may be spoiled for choice with the plethora of 'policies' that will be at hand. Do choose carefully.
- Good morning each and Barry.
A little behind the times this Simon Heffer.
He too, in today's Telegraph, wonders at the wisdom of the Blues taking so much money from so few to fund the election.
He says that Ashcroft (third world shyster) has much control over candidates in marginal seats. "He who pays..."
Who, too, might this David Cross be?
Why not save yourself Barry?
Join with your community and be the Local Independent Candidate for the next election. The Blues are so yesterday, the Reds so, so the day before that.
Be the future Barry. Your community needs you. - The future, Tom is Conservative.....
Lord Ashcroft is a nice bloke, I met him when I was Constituency Chairman and can assure you that any suggestion of him exerting any kind of excessive influence over candidates in marginal seats is pure bunkum. There is a large number of major donors, not a 'few' and all donations are declared under the rules.
You and Simon Heffer make strange bedfellows, Heffer is and unrepentant old fasjioned right winger, like me, except he has left common sense behind and is non-compromising.... - barry
will lord ashcroft state whether he pays taxes in this country.
he continully evades.
the question, i meant of course. - On a different note entirely, that new watersports centre is destined, like a heavy drinker, to age well before its time. Looking closely at the detail of its construction I note that the metal louvre feature near ground level is loose and in a short time will be pulled off by bored locals with nothing better to do. It appears that they are in some way dependent on some sort of clipon arrangement rather than a more permanent and stronger type of fixing. The woodwork feature will fade due to ultra violet light from the sun and in time shrink and look pretty hideous. Don't even mention the faux medieval castle stonework. It appears that this building was designed by committee and shows three different ages of design and altogether does not sit very well in my opinion.
- Alf - this is the political blog, your post which is on an interesting and relevant topic would be most welcome in the 'Open Letters' section.
Howard..
Lord Ashcroft is not guilty of tax evasion, that is illegal and it has not been suggested that he has done anything illegal. He does minimise his tax using the methods available to all in his position and allowed by the Labour Government that has been in office for nearly 13 years. Yours is not a relevant comment really. His donations to the Conservatives has been within the rules laid down by the Labour Government.
I note today that Labour's war chest has been topped up by two £1million donations from individuals.
Remember that it has been the Conservatives who suggested that donations should be limited by law to £50,000 and Labour who prevented that limit. - barry
you avoided. or should i say evaded, the point i was making.
does his lordship pay taxes in this country? - How would I know, Howard, I am not party to his tax return.... All I know is that he makes his contributions legally.
- Barry
on donations you have this incorrect
the tories have opposed at every opportunity disclosing who finances the tory party.
labour has been far more open.
whenever GB attempted to get even more open ness DC opposed it - No Keith you are totally wrong.
It was in March 2006 that David Cameron announced that the Conservative Party would seek to introduce a legal £50,000 cap on donations to political parties by individuals, trade unions, corporations and institutions.
The Hayden report followed in March 2007 saying the same thing which was accepted by Cameron.
This was rejected by Brown because Trade Unions were rightly included in the list of donors to be limited. - baz
happy to be corrected but iv seen many a programme where it has clearly shown DC leading the conservatives AGAINST open disclosure when GB proposed it.
It doesn't realy matter who did it first, this is about should donations be open or not to political parties
I say yes
- You are clearly a bit confused Keith, GB has been very slow over these matters as in most things.
- Good morning each and Barry.
If it is to be, "a very interesting few months", I shall have to up my game.
For, certainly, this old-hat bickering between the Blue and the Red will require other input to engage with the populace.
Dear floating Voter,
All you need to know about just how we are where we are is here. Yah-Boo politics.
If we Britons are to enjoy true Democracy we must admit to ourselves that there IS an other way to do Politics.
First; proclaim your absolute intent to vote at the next election, but say little of how.
Second; Turn your gaze and your ears away from the usual suspects. Nothing new there.
Please be aware. There is no superior choice of candidate available to the big political partys that does not exist for any of us. Those who are elected to the Commons shall be but men and women just like you.
The popular vote can never yield a wrong result. IF, you have been disappointed in the past the fault lies with the present system.
I know that I can make Britain a better place and a truer Democracy, for I have the vote and intend to use it. I cannot do this alone. We certainly CAN do this together.
The Vote IS the only tool in the box.
IF you think that the power in a Democracy resides with the electorate...Prove it! - Hi
with regard to GB I'v listened to it and certainly when put across to DC he certainly opposed it, so no confusion there. - Good morning each and Barry.
You are off to a fine start Barry. What with (again) setting up your own Aunt Sallys and knocking them down again.
The Blues record on the economy in recent times? That's right; zero.
I caught a bit of the opening slaver and as soon as I read the whole thing I shall be back.
BTW.
Could you, Barry, adopt the habit of 'repeating' your Blog Title on the first line? It was a little off-puting to read; "have been fired..." at the start, it gave me quite a turn. - ...well I have read it...
From the bottom up, which is my way.
"We are all in this together."
Ah, the old Committment/envolvement angle.
The difference between the two is plain to see when viewed as the Full English Breakfdast, where the Hen is envolved but the Pig is committed. Who shall vote Blue? Chickens or Pigs?
"(the problems) demand real change and that can't come soon enough."
Real change will come [if I get my way] AT the next election. I do hope that is soon enough for Dave. All too soon I suspect.
"leadership that is modern, strong, decisive, united."
A list without end. Rather akin to the letters children write to Santa. Plus the 'boast' that the Blues gave Blair the support he required to fiddle with Education and plump for the renewal of Trident. (and you say, Barry that the Blue and the Red are not the same thing?)
"redistribute power to the man-in-the-street..."
This too I can bring about AT the next election, without Red & Blue.
"will enter a new era of transparency"
This IS a pledge to continue to cover-up the 'crimes' of the recent past. No more than that.
"We will use the state to rebuild society."
Here is yet another assertion of power at the top, shaking it's fist at the rest of us.
"NHS bricks and mortar."
Absolute rot! The PFI's of the Reds have put money into the hands of the backers of both Red and Blue. The ONLY way to bring the bricks etc into public ownership would be to PAY AGAIN for the liability of this aging stock. Wow! Big deal.
"Enterprise Economy".
His 'new' idea is to subject the word "new" to a search through the Thesaurus.
"This is no time for more of the same."
I could not agree more. Yet electing Blue IS no different from re-electing Red!
The introduction needs no blow by blow rebuttal as it is nought but guff.
"Old style politics, bla-bla-bla. Undermining professionals in public service, bla-bla-bla. Weak PM, bla-bla-bla. Dividing the country instead of uniting it, bla-bla-bla.
It all kicks off with:-
"Responsibility and Aspiration."
He (Dave) and the Blues certainly ARE partly Responsible for the sorry state of politics and the economy and have earned BIG from it.
Aspiration? Let us face it people. He needs US way more than WE need him. - i thought that GB sounded quite prime ministerial in his interview.
will be interesting to see today the blues reply to the reds accusation about a 34 billion quid shortfall in their spending plans. - Howard - I myself at a glance noticed on £4.8bn error when I read it. It is a 148 page document and Cameron himself said in his press launch that he spotted £11bn in errors in 11 seconds....
I do not doubt that there will be more shortcomings identified on close examination.
Besides - what a joke it is for Darling to claim this when he and his leader are making more and more spending pledges without the means to pay for them. The press were not impressed. - Well both sides are arguing the toss about economics and of course Joe Public cant quite know who is right. Darling says the Tories cant afford the Spend they are planning, the Tories say otherwise, but for the moment the general public are somewhat confused as to who to believe.
In the meantime...wait for this one...the Conservatives will be quaking in their boots...Harriet Harman has been announced as the "Face" of Labour in the General Election. Research shows voters are jaded by the Gordon and Alastair duo but somehow warm to both Harriet and Peter Mandelson. Particularly Harriet.
Women voters will like Harriet of course. She already champions womens causes so is likely to go down well in middle England. The Tories dont quite have anyone to counteract her particular appeal with women, hence their concern.
Although it is sometimes hard to beleive but Mandelson is liked, he is a battler and gives the political commentators a serious run for their money on TV. The public like a battler. He never loses stride. He is of course as ever the overall stratagist for Labour.
Although BarryW often dismisses the notion that it could be a hung parliament, you may have noticed in the media a greater emphasis is being placed on Nick Clegg's role and the question is being asked...could he actually be the KingMaker? - PaulB - the point is that Labour are fabricating Tory spending pledges and a fully detailed rebuttal has been made. There is therefore no question about any promises about anything unaffordable.
Labour, by contrast, keep making more and more spending pledges ignoring the dire public finances and the measures needed to deal with the defecit. That is why Darling did not go down well with the press yesterday.
I must say I am very pleased that Harman is to front the Labour campaign and I really hope that Mandelson is seen a lot over the next few months to the election. The so called women's causes she champions are those of the narrow obsessions of feminists and that does not go down well in 'middle England' at all..... - harriet harman is a vote loser for the reds in my opinion.
completely out of touch with the public that put her there.
with mandelson, people do not like him or trust him, but he is good at putting a case across and making it sound plausible.
will be interesting to see who the blues put out against lord mandelson, it has to be someone expendable. - A much more intersting bit of news has arisen since my last post.
Mandelson may well be involved in a plot against Brown.
Evening Standard today....
"A senior minister is said to be close to quitting in a move to destabilise Mr Brown.....
There is speculation among MPs that a big beast such as Chancellor Alistair Darling, Lord Mandelson or Justice Secretary Jack Straw might be willing to tell Mr Brown to go ......."
Paul Waugh and Channel 4's Gary Gibbon have more on the story. - i bet you are worried barry!!
remember when the public were so anti blue because of mrs t?
you knifed her, put in that nice mr major, the public were so relieved to see the back of her they voted the blues in the next time from a very opinion poll position.
i don't see this happening though, i cannot think of a candidate for the job. - What they did to Mrs T was wrong, Howard. Unlike Brown, she was a success in the job and an election winner whatever the immediate polling said. Besides, I would have preferred to lose the 1992 General Election, with her in charge, than win it under Major. It would have been better for the Conservative Party and better for the country, we would never had ended up with 13 years of this present disasterous Government if that happened. We would only have had 4/5 years in opposition and it would have revitalised the Party.
- Good morning each and Barry,
"Bring back Mrs. T."
Could this be the battle-cry? [the poor old thing is not doing as well as Ernest Saunders though]
Barry, you do a wonderful job of Deviling for something up-beat to say about Dave and his posse. That, at this early stage, we find you down the bookies is, I hope, indicative of the fact that your only way is up.
On this other matter...
I read he has tried this sort of thing before; he found no support in, and more than a little hostility from, his fellow Muslims.
He (and others) are entitled to protest and that he chooses the same stage as the authorities is hardly surprising.
I am left wondering why he gets all the coverage at this time.
P.S.
The earnings of the common soldier would stack-up just as badly compared to many others who do work of lesser 'merit'. - I am not a betting man, Tom...
- Good morning each and Barry.
With regard to the SnowPlot. I have pasted below a letter from yesterday's Guardian. [I hope this is OK as no link to it would be allowed]
I did wonder if the subject of this letter and the SnowPlot were related.
Assuming Gordon Brown is still prime minister immediately after the election (Labour and the Tories want the same thing: Nick Clegg, 4 January), there's nothing to stop him continuing to govern as a minority government, as long as he has the acquiescence of the smaller parties to avoid defeat on a vote of confidence. But if Brown were to resign in that situation, perhaps as a condition of Lib Dem support for Labour, his successor would not automatically be appointed prime minister. It would be up to the Queen to decide whom to invite to form a new government, and if the Tories were the biggest single party she would almost certainly feel obliged to invite Cameron to try to form a government.
Similarly, if a new Cameron government failed to gain enough support from the smaller parties to enable him to pass his major legislation (especially his budget), he would have to resign. He might well ask the Queen to dissolve parliament and call another election, but the Queen would not be compelled to accept that advice if she thought a stable government could be formed by someone else. She would be perfectly entitled to invite (say) Ed Miliband to try to form a government, perhaps with the support of the Lib Dems, Greens, SNP etc.
Thus if Labour is to have any chance of continuing in office after an election resulting in a hung parliament, relying on smaller parties' informal ad hoc acquiescence, Gordon Brown would need to resign before the election, not after it: only before the election could he be sure that his successor as Labour leader would also be appointed prime minister. The moral is obvious: the sooner he goes, the better, despite his many great achievements both as chancellor and as prime minister.
Brian Barder
London - wasting your time tom.
barry would have seen it already, he is an avid guardian reader. - Dear Howard. It is the devoted following and those other interested of Barry's readers that need to be informed too. Mine is a public service. :)
Of further interest to those wishing to improve our Democracy is the cosultation web site of the Independent Standards Authority.
"mpexpensesconsultation" Being the thing to search for. - I dont belive for a minute that Mandelson was one of the plotters. Only a day or so ago it was announced he was to be the second 'face' of the election campaign behind womans favourite Harriet Harman..he would in fact ride shotgun, taking on the heavy campaign interviews and so on, so I think there is a more united front than we are led to believe.
It was a very unfortunate occurance, and the two ex-ministers involved should be publicly flogged (metaphorically), all their self absorbed idocy did was to make Labour look in disarray in front of the voter, albeit temporarily. This is a cardinal sin in marketing terms for the party.
It also has the effect of making these two former ministers suffer a dent in their reputations, a serious dent. That Patricia Hewitt is a foreigner anyway...wot can you expect from Foreigners !!lol (as a foreigner myself Im qualified to talk in those terms!) - Tom - that letter simply does not make any sense at all..
PaulB. The simple fact is that this Government is suffering from weak and divided leadership. As a party they are riven with factions, many of whom have already given up the ghost on winning the election. This is a Government in terminal decay and in such situations anything can happen. - Good morning each and Barry.
Dismiss in haste repent at leisure?
"anything can happen."
This IS what I have been saying all along. It is you, dear Barry that thinks only one thing can happen. The SnowPlot [Pearly-gate?] has done little to raise the chances of the Blues.
The fact is each such internecine hiccup damns politics and politicians of whichever hue.
Again it is ALL about them, not us, we--the--people. But, the truth will out, plainly the old way is history. For 'People-Power' the time is now.
As is often the case the Beatles spring to mind.
Help. "...my independence seems to vanish in the haze..."
I fancy that my Campaign song should be..."The Roses of Success" as this line typifies...
"From the ashes of disaster grow the roses of success!" - The comment I made earlier about marketing is all too true because a poll this morning now suggests more than 60% think Labour are disunited. So although those two idiots, Hewitt and the 'Wooden Plank', have had their coup blown out of the water, and regarded with contempt, they have done some damage on how the Party is perceived by the voter. Unforgiveable.
But a word here about Politicians generally. Has anyone seen this Northern Irish story about the Robinsons...First Minister Peter Robinson and his wife Iris. The reputation of Politicians sinks further into the mudddd yet again, particularly with Iris. She is 59 years old, has an affair with someone 19, and gives him government funding for his restaurant...well the nation over there is gobsmacked. These are the original tight assed Puritans these two. Moralisers...in N Ireland on the protestant side of Politics most leaders are Ministers of the Church and real finger waggers. Now, we are all human, but when you are a Moraliser and stand with God on your side as these guys believe, then they fall much much further and hit the ground where the rest of us are, with a loud loud thump! The Robinsons should resign. - PaulB,
I did see a vox-pop on the news. Many of the locals seemed certain that if the shoe was on the other foot this couple would be crying out for heads to roll.
If only there were a local 'Unionist' party spokesperson in the Dover area we could rely on for comment?
P.S.
I do hope that things are a bit more manageable snow-wise down at the coast. :) - Barryw
As you know iv never hidden the fact that I come more from the left of the party.
Thats not to say I agree with all lefty views.
On some issues as iv raised on here before im more right wing than some tories.
take the benefits issue;' no party wants to touch it, i firmly believe we have to sort it out, and have a radical reform, and look at how/why we pay out so much, and how we can get those that do get benefits to work for it
On the question of the labour party, it will always be here, and in the next hung parlianment GB will lead it, and people like mandleson will be happy to have positions in the govt.
THE labour party like the .
tories is still unsure of its directions
on the labour side leftys are around and will probably come into the fold, but the party will continue to be run by blairite type people and will take a long time if ever to move away from middle England
Labour learnt through blair that it cant win elections through ideals, and left type policies
Tories still have to work out a number of issues
1; what direction they are going, are they anti europe
2; will the 1922 committee get its way to get cameron out
3; how will they keep k clarke quiet
4; how will they cost things they have promised - Keith - every one of your questions are a Labour fantasy wish list and their dodgy dossier and do not relate to the real world.
It would be more relevant for you to suggest how Brown will pay for the ever increasing list of spending promises he makes, when we all know there will have to be huge public spending cuts, whoever wins the election. - Good morning each and Barry.
Too true keith. Just what is to be done with these scroungers? Damn bankers! Living high off the hog on public money and haven't done a lick to earn it...and what about the millions they have squirreled away, their rewards for failure after failure. Perhaps all bank accounts should be capped to get the cash flowing in the economy rather that sitting doing nothing, for the greater good, off-shore?
And again. What have 'ideals' to do with rooking the economy for all it's worth?
Will the peasants never learn? They should think themselves privillaged to have been gifted the opportunity, once every five years or so, to give their backing to their betters.
This alone is probably responsible for the decline in British Society over the years. No sense of 'place', of 'station' and of the natural order of things that has done so much to bring greatness to these shores. High time the hoi-poloi put-up or shut-up.
Heaven help the established order should the great unwashed ever learn to count. Ever discover that they (and they alone) have the votes to change Britain for good.
If only they knew that they have more options at election time than simply choosing between the Red banking lobby and the Blue banking lobby. Why, if 'we' are not careful the common-man and woman might end up in charge.
And we all know what that could mean; more Democracy, more envolvement in matters concerning them. For instance, Iceland! What is that all about? What makes them think that just because they shall have to pay for the errors and the greed of money-lovers, that they should have a say in how things are to be worked out?
The down-side of all this is plain to see. Democracy could catch on. Not as 'we' might prefer, by force, but by convincing arguement.
I may have said too much, feel free Barry, to delete this. After all there is such a thing as too much information. :) - Good afternoon each and Barry.
Heaven forfend that the Blues should be thought of as using any ploy to gain political advantage.
This IS where this whole 'two-party' struggle leaves the voting public with no choice whatsoever.
I hear tell that your Mr. Elphicke is the most decent of chaps. Sad then that a vote for him would mean victory for Dave and his posse.
This next election (which could be years away, there is NO law to say otherwise) is a struggle that the electorate should take full part in and win.
Vote Red?
Why? Have they done the right thing by Dover and our Nation? NO!
Vote Blue?
Why? When was the last time they did the right thing by Dover and it's people?
If all is hunky-dory in your world, then re-elect Red.
If all is not rosey, how will voting Blue help?
If all is not as you think it could be, what then?
As usual, don't vote and spend the next five years moaning. (again!)
OR vote for a local, Independent of Party. Vote for one of your own to take your voice into Parliament.
BUT all must (please) vote! - To put what you are saying diferently, Tom - Vote instead for a pig in a poke and end up with the same old Labour shower governing for another 4/5 years....
You may not like to admit it but the Conservatives have a very different programme/attitude to Government and as such is providing a real choice and real change. - spot on barry the blues have a very different programme planned from the reds.
on the day that gordon announced 200,000 free lap tops to poorer families with children to bring them up to speed, the blues leader cheerfully admitted that the surestart programme for poorer families will be knocked on the head.
bit of an own goal, i think. - Howard - Brown is up to his old tricks is he? making unfunded spending promises that are simply unaffordable. Then there was his promise of free home care for the elderly yesterday.
Who does that man think he is kidding? His Chancellor said only a couple of days ago that spending cuts are not negotiable.
This illustrates just how Labour is unfit for Government, leaving a vacuum of leadership with no sense of direction.
Brown will be promising free jam for everyone for breakfast next.
I did not hear about any cut-backs by DC on SureStart, I did hear what he said to Demos about a possible bigger role for SureStart Centres without making any spending commitments.
The own goal here was the Brown/Darling combination.
There will be massive cuts remember, whoever wins the election. These are unavoidable and are in fact happening now and we can see from our own Council. - Forgive me for being a bit off topic here again but I really have to do more about the Robinson situation in Northern Ireland. As I said on here a few days ago, these people were/are Moralisers on a grand scale, and anyone who saw the Panorama programme last night will have realised I was right in what I said a few days ago. Tuning in to Panorama you would have heard this woman's (Iris Robinson's) track record on all things sanctimonious and worse.
Panorama on BBC1 did a great programme on her and it was all too accurate. For example they played a radio interview in which she condemned the practice of homosexuality as an "abomination", she was asked repeatedly how she felt about it and she stuck to her guns re "abomination". She condemned it outright. This was not a politician making an accidental slip up. So she was and is a finger wagging Moralist belonging to a holier than thou Christian Church who have no toleration levels for others. This I'm sad to say is the kind of Political Group who led politics in N Ireland for so many years. It isnt too hard to ascertain how they would have felt about sharing power with Catholics.
So when the finger wagging church promoting Moralist falls, well they fall in a big way, and her sexual gratification with a 19 year old is staggering in Irish terms. Here we have a very young guy of 19, with no money, no business experience, no anything other than being her plaything, suddenly finding himself in a business turning over a quarter of a million pounds a year! - In short a 59 year old hypocrite. Apparently it was not only this 19 year old either......... I have to say she certainly looks 'fit' for a 59 year old!!! I will stop on that right there.
She was the very worse kind of politician and Northern Ireland will be well rid of her. - the public are not that really interested in the northern ireland assembly, the total population of the 6 counties is similar to the size of 2 london boroughs.
i cannot remember a decent politician coming from there since john hume.
the ones that get elected to the UK parliament never turn up but claim a great wage and expenses to supplement their income from stormont. - Howard - the Sein Fein members dont turn up and attend the UK Parliament but others do. As for decent NI politicians, what about Trimble, he is a goody...
- had to think for a moment about david trimble, forgot he was still there.
i have never seen him having appeal to the nationalists in any way, both sides come across as bald men fighting over a comb.
the majority of the united kingdom and republic of ireland are really not interested in the feudalism in ulster.
they have enough money pumped in for all past grievances to be forgotten.
i am not talking about people that were murdered in the troubles, but grievances that go back to some dutch bloke 4 or 5 hundred years ago. - He won the Nobel Peace Prize for his contribution to the peace settlement in N. Ireland.
- Good morning each and Barry.
I did wonder as a young man growing up through the sixties and seventies, whether it might not be a better idea that a Party held office for longer than five years (or often way less in those days) whether in the longer-term things would improve. More time for this one or that to complete it's work.
How wrong I was. First, Thatcher then New-Labour. It is now clear to me that Politics as had been and is done in the UK is entirely short-term. Neither Red nor Blue gives a fig for the future. A future that may be governed by the 'others'. All is short-term GAIN.
Barry I cannot argue with your final sentence [now there's an ominous phrase, but I digress]
Except that to be 'unpopular' one must first be the most popular. This is not something that the Reds or the Blues are entitled to.
Far better [surprise, surprise] for the next Parlament to be a hot-house of dispute, of arguement and counter-arguement, of consensus. It would be more acceptable to the populace that their hardship is more than matched by the tussles of their Parliament.
Brown is no leader, too true. Yet this adds nothing to the perception of Dave among the electorate.
Typically you, in common with your co-conspirators, view the election as a contest between those who can be seen to ignore the people most. No talk of people, but only of pain.
There is no getting away from the fact that we--the--people have heard all of this before.
The time for real change is now. We must alter the make-up of the Commons. Far fewer Partys and more Peoples.
If there is to be hardship in the near future that hardship must be in Parliament. The last thing we--the--people need is another cosy majority in the Commons from a minority of the electorate in the country.
The reds and the Blues are fairly matched, neither is trying to win over the people, neither is offering anything but pain. No vision, no long term, no hope.
Vote Independent, keep the power and shun those who crave power and offer nothing but more of the same! - Barry, your comments in the fiscal ineptitude of the present government ring true. Socialism usually works O.K. until it runs out of other peoples money.
What I really can not understand is why neither the party of the clunking fist nor that of the iCam are willing to treat the electorate like grown ups and admit just how bad things are and exactly how much suffering we are ALL in for, whichever party gets elected, to get our finances back on some even keel.
I suspect that one of the problems is that over 50% of the population are beholden to the state in either benefit hand-outs or salary (myself included) and is is not often that turkeys can be expected to vote for Christmas.
On the plus side, with 200,000 laptops being given to poorer families there should be some bargains to be had on EBay soon! - Good morning each and Barry.
Why cuts verses cuts? Which Party is set to startle the public with talk of wealth creation? Jobs? Increased and expanded Democracy? Improvements in the standing of Britain in the world?
Why no talk of my bonus? I must have failed somehow or other too. Surely that is worth something? Why is it that not all of those who benefit from 'Government' largesse get to keep the money for themselves?
I wonder, dear voter, if being down so long it might look like "Up to me?" - Tom, cuts in public spending are essential for wealth creation. Only the private sector creates wealth not the bloated ineffient State. We must switch the burden of the recession away from businnes and make the public sector take a share of the burden. The other issues wil be dealt with in due course but whether you like the direction is another matter.
- barry
do these wealth creditors include the banks that took their begging bowls to the bloated inefficient state? - So howard, your point is?
Are you disputing that the private sector is what will dig us out of the recession being that which generates wealth?
Or is it just a silly facetious point made for the sake of saying something? - Good morning each and Barry.
So...Millions to become unemployed. Mortgage, rent, council tax and subsistance (dole). All paid out, for what return? No income tax, no council tax, less purchasing and less hope for the future. This, you say Barry, is NOT pouring oil on the fires consuming our economy.
This business, that business whatever business all and each business ready to create wealth without the need for customers?
Perhaps we have heard this sort of thing before. The images of NSPCC advertisements spring to mind; "Little Tommy...years of abuse...no alternative but to return time after time to this same situation...on and on..."
Is the Blue line; "Better the abuser you know..."?
No, sorry Barry, this guff will not wash this time. These wealth creators, these live-wires of the business world will have to do the best they can without the share of the public bale-out that you assume is their due. - you know very well what i meant barry.
a lot of banks took away our wealth(taxpayers money) how is this creating wealth? - Good morning each and Barry,
Barry, I feel for you, having just read what the Reds have to say in Saturday's Guardian.
So much ink so little insight. Truely the Blues and the Reds deserve each other. It is just as well that the electorate have so much else to occupy them. It is best if we all leave the two of you in a corner to bawl at each other.
If there is to be truth we shall have to wait until after the election to hear any of it and even then it will take the election of something other than either of you two usual suspects before we can trust what we hear. - The simple fact is that businesses are overburdened by red tape and taxation. Only these businesses can create the wealth that will provide real jobs and economic growth. They must have this burden reduced and to do that we must cut public spending immediately. Then for the deficit.
Only businesses, real private businesses, can lead our way out of the mess. - Barry, steady as you go.
I cannot recall a time when 'red tape', 'over regulation' and (some forms of) 'taxation' were not the battle cries of the Blues at election time.
Are we to believe that we are in a position of unprecedented this or that and yet the answers to our woes are the same as for past times?
This is indeed the greatest drawback of the two-party state. Blues only deal with Reds and Reds only deal with Blues. Nowhere is the plight of the country and it's people addressed. The Reds and the Blues take to the field of battle each armed with their same old battle-axe, not even a grandfather's axe. [the head and handle of which is renewed over time]. We--the--people simply cannot leave the country and our futures in the hands of the same Parties that have brought us to this new low.
All the bright go-getters of the business world will have to lump it. Commeth the hour commeth the men and all that. - No, Tom, we have had a huge expansion of red tape and regulation over the last 13 years. The answer is to get rid of 90% of it. The answer for the future is to take Government in the opposite direction that it has traveled for certainly the last 13 years and arguably longer, smaller government. It is the Conservatives who are offering that.
- Good morning each and Barry.
It is high time that everyone envolved got more bold. The overall feeling is still one of being unsure that any of the candidates for the 'top-job' actually wants it.
Bercow, expenses, political reform (PR etc.etc.) the list goes on and on.
While the question of quite what to do with regard to the economy will remain up-in-the-air until the books are open to the eventual victor there is much else where comment on the future could and should be made. In the run-up to the election the Partys can be forgiven for seeing all as a struggle between; Blue, Red etc. The course of the next five years must be steered through the stormy waters of Democratic Reform too. The present system is simply not up to scratch and is wholly unfit for the twenty-first century.
What promise for the Political future of our Democracy does Dave promote?
But, first to last; more bold from all. - Tom - we can agree on the need for political reform though I suspect we would disagree over the solution.
One of the big issues is to restore trust in Government and institutions which have been severely undermined in part by crooked politicians and in part by Government inaction and action.
DC sees that and his Constitutional Task Group has reported. Which elements go into the manifesto will be announced soon.
What I want to see and expect to see are the following:
1/ expenses reform
2/ a mainly elected House of Lords
3/ a reduction in the number of MPs and a leveling of the numbers in each Constituency along with a rolling boundary review.
4/ an overall reform of the way the Government does business, more technology and openness, particularly on expenses.
5/ a massive reduction in quangoes and what is spent on them along with a reduction in what the Government actually does.
6/ English Votes for English laws - a rebalancing to eliminate the Scottish/Welsh bias as a result of devolution.
7/ a new financial settlement for Scotland and Wales with more revenue raising powers for the devolved governments. - Barry populist as ever.
Trust! And how to regain it.
A deal of humility from those who think themselves ordained to rule would go a long way. So, not so much of the 'mia-culpa'. There is much more to the wide-spread ocult fraud of the present tranche in Parliament than individual weakness. This institutionalised betrayal of the electorate includes the acceptance by political partys of the lamentable lack of public envolvement in all political matters, not least the low tunout at election time.
Soon power2010 will lay before the party leaders their list for political and constitutional reforms. [once the public consultation and public votes on priorities are complete, soon, but all can go and vote for their preferred options for some weeks yet]
There are many choices there for greater public and Parliamentary envolvement in the process of National Government.
Myself, I would plump for the initial speech of our next leader to include; The date of the next election and the promise that it will be held under a form of PR.
More of this between us in the coming weeks, no doubt. All the best. - BTW, Barry are you keeping February the 10th free? I read that Dave is to make a 'secret' speech to some Yank think tank. He is reported to have a Big Idea to roll out.
We, the mere electorate, will have to wait and see. - Not much of a secret if you know about it. Good to hear the steady roll-out of policies is continuing in a senseible phased manner.
- Tom, the speech is to TED (Technology,Education and Design) a non profit making think tank which I have been following for a number of years.
I suspect that many forumites will find a look at www.ted.com as fascinating as I have. There is literally something there for anyone interested in what's happening at the cutting edge of the three above and you can watch presentations from previous years on your computer.
I particularly recommend Hans Rosling with his use of Gapminder to show statistics.
TED gives out $100,000 prizes to people who come up with good ideas and one of this year's winners was Jamie Oliver. - pray tell what jamie done to earn a prize for coming out with a good idea bob?
did he recommend his hairdresser? - Howard, wait 'til Feb 10 and you will see what it's for.....
+ sign up for TED info? - The story, yesterday on the Guardian web-site mentions a rave like approach to arranging the whole thing. Invitees will learn shortly before the off just where and when the meeting will take place. The up-side is that each speaker gets no more than 18 minutes to speak.
- Good morning each and Barry.
Barry, you are Dave's man and no mistake.
While it is plainly true that as the whole region benefits from this dam the 'extraordinary' costs of maintenance should be bourne by the region as a whole. BUT
The big hitter of the day was the Cleggster.
Where was Dave, where are you on the question of the publically owned RBS subsidising job losses with our money? This is a far bigger leakage of much needed funds that could and should have gone to create jobs. Perhaps it is the fate of financial advisors to get sand in their ears when it comes to profit before public good.
A very telling point against both Blue and Red and a tremendous fillip for the Yellows.
[if you have read what I wrote only yesterday, you would be no more surprised than I at this last point] - Commercial matters of company takeovers are not something for politicians to get involved in. RBS would have made a commercial decision as all banks must. That is not to say I like the idea of Cadbury being owned by Kraft but it is a matter for the shareholders only.
- As a callow youth I was given my first chance at voting in a general election. Way back then I voted for [the pain, the pain] I voted for Ted Heath. I voted for him mainly because of his use of the phrase, "Who should govern, the elected Government or the miners?" [approx]
The question today is much the same.
"Who should govern, the elected Government or the bankers?"
This is why the next election is so important. Should the electorate shy away from puting Democracy before deference to money, or anything else for that matter, the die will be cast and Democracy the loser.
The time IS now for true Democracy to win through. The time is NOW for the electorate to think long and hard about the future. Men or mice? Doers or drones? Actors or audience? Liberty seekers or live-stock?
No more of this; Red legs good: Blue legs bad rubbish! - O.K. time to get the ball ROLLING.
This is fact Barry
(1)U,K,I,P. Scored 16.55%/2.4 million votes in june beating the Goverment.
(2)U.K.I.P. won in 9.council authorities-we can win in F.P.T,P. Plymouth, stoke-on-Trent,Noth Devon, Torbay,Torridge Newcastle-under-lyme.Dudley.Kingston-upon-hull and Hartlepools.
Local Election success for example have been in Ramsey, great Yarmouth, Ashfield,Newcastle -under-lyme, Billericay,lowestoft,Staffordshire moorlands,and an average 16%local goverment vote share.
mix of labour/Tory/Lib areas means U.K.I.P. can go on the offensive anywhere in the U.K.
Latest poll (Angus Reid)has U.K.I.P. on 6% and there is still along way to go yet.Barry - Vic - a genral election is a different ball game. look back at history, UKIP are going nowhere.
- barry
with all due respect, you would not reply to vics posts if you were not a little concerned.
a bit like "whistling in the dark".
i note that our own true blue roger has made comments about the fringe parties gaining ground because some voters feel that their voices are not heard.
i would go one step further and say that the major parties do not actually care or understand anymore.
the average backbench MP lives somewhere safe and secure, the front benchers no doubt are surrounded by security funded by the taxpayer.
i feel this discontent will surface on election day. - You could not be further from the truth howard in all respects. I at least am back by two things, polling evidence and historical precedence.
- Good morning each and Barry.
I see we are past the 'first-flush' of electioneering zeal and are back with the old favourite; hope tinged with despair.
We know that there is but one poll that matters and that this election could rank alongside the historic post-war shake-ups where the populace answers a question of their own devising.
The more answers out there the more choice for the voter the more choice for the voter hopefully the more voters will turnout to make that choice.
Vic/UKIP are there for all those Blues who have a different concept of "cast iron" from that of friend Dave and for those voters that are just plain Browned-off.
At this stage of the game I hope that each Retuning Officer has plans afoot to accommodate both the increase in turnout and the need to have the result ASAP.
- barry
if i am wrong in all respects then that would mean that the public are voting for people like the BNP and UKIP because of their intellectual superiority over the two main protaganists. - Hardly howard.
- Good morning each and Barry.
"the longer this election goes on the stronger the Conservatives will get."
So, as usual, the election is not about the people. Not for the Blues anyway. And neither for the Reds. With them too power is all.
But first. Power has to be gifted from we the holders, possessors and exercisers of power.
It is sad indeed that we are afforded but one opportunity to exercise our power only once every five years or so.
At this remove from the actual competition it is little wonder that the good people of Dover are pleasantly surprised to see anybody out and about canvassing. How encouraging for the other bit-players in this present pre-pre-election days, weeks and months to hear that the public are ready to listen.
How many of those with whom you spoke were the very people the Blues are so bent on throwing onto the scrap-heap of life? Do public-turkeys intend to vote for their own roasting?
Perhaps, understandably, those you chose to speak with are those set to benefit from the tax breaks which are the only policy the Blues have to promote as yet. Drip, drip, drip. As you say. - Barry,
Could it be that the Reds have next to nothing to say on any topic? For all they seem to produce is bluster and the odd reference back to previous utterances, which when looked at were nothing but bluster themselves.
This is a tactic employed of old by some pugelists to tire their opponent out.
So, what of the near future?
Shall there come the knock-out blow or shall we, the audience, turn away in disgust?
Is the future of Dover and the country as a whole to rely on the struggle between the Blue and the Purple to learn of our options? - Those figures above are disappointing from a Labour perspective. It appears to me that Gordon Brown has been performing much better in recent times. His performances at Prime Ministers Questions have certainly improved, although its a well known fact that how you perform in the House of Commons bears little relation to voting preferences, we all remember William Hague who was quite sparkling at PMQ but slumped with the public...so despite better more assured performances, the polls are still sickly for Labour.
At this stage its difficult to see how they can revive their position because despite Gordie improving, the polls still are not responding. A new Leader is out of the question as I dont believe there is someone there with enough clout and charisma to make a difference at this stage. The future might see young Milliband as a 'white hope' but does he have any charisma, is he televisual like Tony Blair? lets face it, Labour have only ever won in a generation with one man.. Tony Blair. Where is their next contender like that? - ...Barry, PaulB,
Who, I wonder, was taken aback recently when Andrew Marr put the 'medication' question to the PM? Gordon answered no then.
It is hard to believe that nonchalance and confidence can be come by so quickly and with seemingly little effort.
I will need to look at Gordon more closely from now on, and we have these TV-debates to look forward to..
- Good morning each and Barry.
I am listening to the Today programme on Radio4.
It seems that Dave and the Blues are turning back time in NI, dicing with death to scrape a few votes together, well maybe not so much votes at the election but to make their path a little more smooth if the Blues end up being in the position of a minority government.
How low can one go? - Actually Tom, it is Gordon Brown who is sinking low in this.
Brown is just trying to score party political points, stirring up trouble. This originates with a very shoddy piece of Guardian journalism and the BBC, as always, are keen to follow up on Labour spin. - Good morning each and Barry.
"...not a penny saved."
Come, come now. Many the penny has been saved. I cannot imagine that you, Barry, are anything less than competant at what you do.
What has brought us to this sorry pass is that few, if any, pennies were actually earned.
This man, Molloy is a self proclaimed bad guesser. He guessed wrong on Red and he again guesses wrong on Blue.
In common with many that vote Blue he, perhaps, has his eye on his personal 'fortune'? He looks for a Party that will help him keep his money after his death and desperately needs us all to help him stay in the circumstance to which he has become accustomed.
Funny, is it not. That those who have coined-it-in over the last thirteen years or so of Red incompetence need the Blue now to hang on to their all but ill-gotten gains.
"One turn-coat does not a trend portend."
We--the--people must grow up and set aside such childish things as Party Politics and reassert the most basic of Democratic principals.
"Government of the people, by the people, for the people." - Your extreme and over the top cynisism is not doing your case any justice Tom.
Some people do care for this country and even those whith who I disagree, red, blue, yellow or whatever usually have the right motives even though methods are often wrong.
The point he is making is quite simple.
During the years of growth Brown was deluded into thinking he had abolished boom and bust. That is just as idiotic as someone thinking they had abolished winter. To coninue that metaphor, Brown did not lay in supplies during the bountiful summer, because he thought he had abolished the winter, so the cupboard was bare when winter hit.
The seasons change and always will just as the economic cycle will continue to turn. You repay borrowing when the times are good and allow borrowing to rise when times are bad. We started this recession with an inbuilt structural deficit so we Brown has simply been adding debt upon debt and that cannot continue.
For those who dont know a structural deficit is a deficit that will be left at the end of the next growth cycle not repaid by economic growth during the pre-sceding boom years. To deal with that you have to either reduce spending or increase taxes. - A Good day to bury Bad News?
Having cycled home from a morning of Education,Education, Education to be faced with Bliar on most channels on the T.V. (a war which I happen to support) I find that every voting person in my house has had the latest iDave missive on the NHS.
Allegedly safe in their hands?
Meanwhile I note that the the government has released data on NHS waiting times:-
'The number of inpatients, for whom English commissioners are responsible, waiting over 13 weeks at the end of December 2009 was 57,600, an increase of 12,300 (27.3%) from November 2009, and a rise of 18,000 (45.3%) from December 2008.
The number of outpatients, for whom English commissioners are responsible, waiting over 8 weeks at the end of December 2009 was 74,100, an increase of 11,700 (18.8%) from November 2009, but a rise of 26,900 (57.0%) from December 2008.'
A good day to release data (i.e. a busy news day) or merely a coincidence?
Perhaps one of our Labour representatives or even Gwynfor might like to comment? - I noticed that Bob and was tempted to blog it. Fairly typical of them I must say.
- Good morning each and Barry.
Freedom verses Equality.
It certainly rings true that when, at election time, the Red and the Blue strive to be equally bad that the electorate is free to choose between them and that such freedom is meaningless.
What better way to establish that we are equal than by voting.
The better then; to establish that we are free by choosing to vote for other than the 'Tweedle-twins' of Red and Blue.
Free and equal we are to choose for our future from the candidates that see all as free AND equal and do not cater for the self interest of but few.
Should we stick by the old recipe we shall get the same old cake and the same old crumbs. - I always thought getting more people to university was good. Giving the poorer members of society a leg up cant be a bad thing, as seemingly all our worse ills come from those sections of society that have no hope through lack of education. The only career path for some is to become a gang member in many cases. As Tony Blair said all that time ago.."Education, Education, Education" and everyone cheered.
Now sadly as we struggle with finance it looks like the numbers at university will be cut back next year. ..depriving many of a worthwhile career. As a direct result the long term will show that the poor will get even poorer still and the gap between rich and poor will get wider still. University graduates make something like FOUR times more revenue in a lifetime, than those who dont attend university.. - PaulB - there are lies damned lies and statistics. Just because a previous generation of Uni grads earn 4 times non-uni grads does not mean that once you get 50% at uni the same will apply...
All you end up with are a bunch of individuals educated to a level above their ability plus a load of uni drop-outs with a huge debt hanging over them.
Even from the previous generation some of the biggest fools I have met had a uni education, while some of the cleverest and more successful left school at 15. - i have to agree with your assessment of certain graduates barry.
a degree does not automatically mean that people can tie their own shoelaces.
i see where paul is coming from, great for the successful university folk, not so good for society though.
at present we are importing plumbers, electricians and other tradesman from eastern europe.
should we have more practical training this would not be a necessity.
tradesmans jobs are not dead end either, much wealth can be gained from these and more chance of being ones own boss too. - Good morning each and Barry.
Well said Barry. I too am no great sports fan, I am no great fan of politicians either though.
When was the last time any politico said anything worth listening to? Politics, either through dumbing-down or via the preponderance of PPEs (from few universities) is less and less about the common-weal and more and more...on up to the absolute craving for power. This might have more to do with the number of elections won by the one or the other party.
This in turn hinges upon the diminution of the place of Parliament in the job of governance. Gordon (and TB before him) is certainly guilty of seeking good news above all else; nice and easy for the sound-bite age.
Presidential 'style' government, weak cabinet, much from the EU and the media's need for new faces has all led to this sorry condition. MPs have less and less to do. "...makes work for idle hands."?
Weakness gathers a crowd, the crowd quickly see themselves as powerful, potent and 'right'. No arguement can defeat them for no rational has got them to where they are.
All of which brings us back to 'personality'.
Nevertheless. This is a democracy, the entitlement to vote has (happily) moved on from property ownership and gender to universal sufferage. Well we sure do get the suffering. It IS the job of politics to bring the people along. At present, the low turnout aids and abets both the lack-lustre intake and gives us a government that assures itself that it got to power because such was destined to be and again worse, 22% of the vote and the new PM with a stonking majority, assumes the public are 100% behind his every whim.
While it is the responsibility of politicians to correct the slide in voting we all must do what we can. - Tut Tut. what a sexist photo. um excuse me im a female and would like to see a bit of hot male totty on here to please.
- Well Melissa, just recently I have had photos of Gordon Brown, David Cameron, Milton Friedman and David Blanchflower. is that not enough male totty for you? lol
- ...I neglected to mention my utter disdain for the last phrase you use Barry;
"we get the politicians that we deserve",
It sounds to me like just so much buck passing .
As nobody in the real world is forced into crime niether are the fraudsters in the current HoCs.
This is nonetheless another reason for each vote to be counted. - The HoC is a reflection of the country at large Tom. Some good, some bad, some mediocre and some excellent. Even if too many are misguided.
- Barry. Do you have a bucket? i said male totty not toy boys for the older generation. No offence guys :)
- Well said Barry!
Some very good and valid points, but I just wonder how many people will agree with you?
We live in a society where the latest score of your favorite team, who a player may or may not be sleeping with, how much they get paid or what name they give to their children is more important than who is proposing what in parliament, who we vote to become our representatives or where our tax pounds are spent!
Why? Is it not easier for those in power to keep that power by not educating the 'masses' (just vote 'red' or blue' being a fine example)
I think all forms of media should HAVE to give equal time to politics and matters of govenment.
Maybe if we had to listen to them for longer the politicians may realise they have to say something of relevance and value
- dj
i hope you are not suggesting that we should be forced to watch prime ministers question time or a commons debate.
politicians rarely say much of value nowadays because we live in a sound bite society. - Well said DJ. That is one way to get people out and about more and the power saved by switching off can only help.
We should begin at the bottom get all out and knocking on doors. Just to get them out and voting. - Howard, maybe if you\we were 'forced' to watch you may think twice before voting for these 'politicians' in the first place!
After all somebody voted for them as a local MP to start with!
I my point is get rid of the 'sound bite society', if people (the voters) had to listen to all the rubbish they spout, they (the voters) would soon be dragging these politicians out by the scruff of their metaphorical necks and throwing them out in the streets where they belong!!
Now lets see who is worthwhile stand up and ask to be elected to REPRESENT us, the masses, knowing their every word is being monitored.
Of course if you don't like living in a democratic country, where it is your DUTY to vote for, and monitor, your elected representative you could always go live in a dictatorship.
I believe you don't have to worry about listening to politicians in those countries as you do not have the responsibility of voting. - And I must say this page might be quite boring if not for the 'tasty brunette morsel'! Definitely a picture to brighten things up and help you to realise not all is bad :-)
- not sure what you are intimating DJ, i have always voted and probably always will.
we are fed information from our betters through the media, that is how we reach a decision at election time.
you refer to me going to live in a dictatorship, yet you refer to people being "forced" to watching our elected representatives. - 'betters' Howard?
Punters, do you mean?
How super one must feel once one dons the cape of Party.
Through the media? As, through the alimentary canal? Maybe, except that would infer that their stuff was wholesome to start with. - one must respect ones superiors tom.
hardly a day goes by without me tugging my forelock.
makes me a better person, i think. - Howard, are you saying you are 'superior' to me???
Do you know ANYONE who is 'superior to me??
I think not!
Then again I am not superior to anyone one else either. Equality dear chap!! Do you not believe in it??
And if I am to believe every study made on the subject 'tugging your forelock' to you perceived superiors DOES NOT make a better person, but exactly the opposite!!
To quote you "we are fed information from our betters(sic) through the media"
Yes we are fed what they wish us (the general public) to see, NOT the whole facts!!
Having been involved in a situation when a 'D notice' has been put on the press I can attest to the fact! - to be honest dj, i will brown nose as much as is necessary in order to curry favour with my betters.
i have signed photographs of mr brown, mr cameron, lord pearson, nick griffin and that bloke from the lib dems all taking pride of place on my mantelpiece. - "to be honest...i will brown nose as much as is necessary in order to curry favour with my betters"
Howard McSweeney
Now there's a quote I gotta use!! :-) - Hi all anyone any idea why no comments can be made on the open letters page
(Sorry to hijack your blog Barry) - technical problems "confused".
no idea yet when it will be back. - I think I must indulge in a further ramble on the N Ireland situation and I hope people will bear with me as it must be bewildering to many.
One very significant thing happened this week in N Ireland. I dont immediately refer to the new hard won power sharing agreement...good as it was, but what was more momentous for me was that First Minister Peter Robinson made a Joke..strewth!! he made a series of them!
Some of will know Im sure the rather grim stoney faced nature of politicians in N Ireland..they generally have all the attraction of a crustation on lumpy porridge..especially the dusty Unionists. However the mould was shattered this week. Robinson, in front of Sinn Fein, joked that if negotiation was an Olympic Sport they would win gold, and then they would negotiate over which national anthem to play and which flag to raise. This was extreme hilarity in Irish terms and I laughed out loud myself. But in a situation that was previously filled with hate, this new warmth could speak volumes for further coherence in N Ireland...so it really was momentous, even more so than the agreement itself.
The agreement has been reached though, very good, and on hand for the media photoshoot afterwards was Gordon Brown and his Irish equivalent. Gordon taking advantage of a successful outcome and of course enjoying his moment in front of the cameras.
Re BarryW's editorial above...Gordon suddenly being interested in Electoral Reform is because, and it has been said before, but Barry dismisses it, we appear to be heading towards a hung parliament, so wheeling and dealing will be the order of things. Striking a deal with the LibDems could result in a continuance of a Labour government.
The 'tasty morsels' above are...well, very tasty ! - Good morning each and Barry,
PaulB, tut-tut!
If I read you right, making a virtue of necessity is itself virtuous? No doubt, here and there, up and down the land such deals are in place. Deals, like the idea of AV itself, where political convenience takes pride of place over the will of the people.
Puting to one side, for three months or so, the desires of sitting MPs and PPCs alike and looking at just what the electorate CAN do AT the next election who knows which few of the Reds or the Blues will slip through to make it into the HoCs? A hung Parliament is a mere pipe-dream, that gallery of notables [not-ables?] that is the HoCs shall be awash with new portraits. For Gordon, Dave and their ilk the gibbet of public approbation awaits.
And.
Yes it is nice to see Pat & Mick getting in on the joke. - i was struck too with the geniality shown by our leaders from the six counties on the box yesterday.
over the years we have been lumbered with the po faced self important likes of paisley,adams,mcguiness,trimble etc.
it always struck me that they were much more interested in power than doing anything for the people there.
one can only hope that the chumminess continues. - Good evening Barry,
What with 'snap' election and 'hung' parliament the whole process is sounding similar to bringing poultry to table. Not that I, as a vegetarian, would know anything about all that.
Full marks for your optimism. Do we really need to rush into the election before all involved get a chance to set out their stalls? - Further to the blog above. Political Betting posted some detailed analysis into the lead cameron really needs to get an overall majority. This takes into account complex issues such as 'tactical unwind' and was worked out by someone called Andy Cooke.
A lead of only 5 points could result in a Tory majority!
Six points and there is a decent working majority.
The entire distortion currently in the system has accumulated due to factors that are now going into reverse. he calls it tactical unwind.
It’s a reflection of just how good Labour has been at maximising its vote where it’s needed. But then when it lets go, it’s a double or triple whammy back. Every advantage that’s been cited is one more factor that can unravel. Since 2001, when Labour held a landslide despite the swing against them, they’ve been fighting the electoral gravity – and doing so with significant success. - apologies for going off of the subject slightly barry, but i read the times today(posh barry had it ironed and delivered to me), they were of the opinion that the blues were getting a bit edgy after spending 400k last month on an advertising campaign with negative results in the polls.
an insider was quoted as saying that the impetus would change towards personal attacks on the PM.
when i got home, the first thing i read was just that. - The attack on Brown was trailed the day before to prime it, so there would have been no particular insight there.
This speech stepped up the tempo of the campaign to lead it into the February phase. It was a well crafted attack on Brown's leadership style and style of Government.
From what I have read DC is remaining quite unruffled, he has a plan of campaign and is sticking to it. There will always be the odd bit of flakiness from some people, often with their own agenda, particularly in the media. - I have looked more closely at the latest study of the impact of various poll leads.
The closest margin in polls over the last year has been 7% based on which the new data projects a 100% chance of a Conservative majority of between 30 and 50 seats.
The most recent Populus poll gives a margin of 10% which would give a majority of between 98 and 118 seats.
The level at which the conventional Uniform National Swing models show as the minimum for a Conservative majority of one, 11%, should produce a Conservative majority of 122 to 142 seats.
The most consistent poll over the last 5 months, AQngus reid, have been showing a 16% Conservative lead. that would produce a Conservative majority of between 196 and 214.
These assessments are based on Con/Lab marginals and produce a consistent LibDem number of seats of around 50. The tactical unwind could also hit these seats as well reducing their total in favour of the Conservatives pushing up the majorities further.
- In the absense of a letters page An open letter to all our potential parliamentary candidates and interested persons.
Privitatisation of our Port has emerged due to the question of borrowing for much needed expansion.
Up until a couple of years ago Dover Harbour Board could and did borrow what ever they needed.Then the Treasury declared that DHB borrowings would have to be aggregated into the National debt.DHB fought this as much as they could but eventually conceded last year.
Now DHB need funds to meet the demand of traffic growth but with the knowledge that which ever Party comes to power,there is no way that they would wish to see this increase on the Public Sector borrowings and indeed they would be rather keen to lay there hands on DHB`s capital value whether DHB were willing or not.It would appear DHB are jumping before they are pushed.
What solutions are there to enable expansion to happen and for Our Port to remain a Trust?
- Reg. I dont think personally that there is any advantage at all to the Port remaining a Trust.
- Did I not see Gordon Brown touring the site of a container complex soon to be built on the Essex side of the Thames Estuary?
The talk was of the "biggest in Europe etc' kind.
Does DHB see much expansion on the cards for trucks?
Is now the right time to sell-off our remaining silver? [if we are not already down to nothing but horse brasses?] - Good afternoon each and Barry,
Are we to prepare for the next recession now?
You speak like one who advises on matters fiscal. I am sure I am not alone in hoping that we could discuss matters Political without it stretching into bald Sales Pitches, but it is your blog and a man has to do what a man has to do, ladies too.
Barry, can you be seriously saying we should just get back to doing all that we used to do?
It is highly unlikely that the world can go on as usual. All talk of year-on-year-growth is yesterday's chatter. From here on in we cannot stumble along with either; boom, boom and more boom or plain boom & bust.
Any plan for the future must accommodate our ever declining energy supply. The first attempt at making our lack of energy and our supposed culpability in atmospheric pollution into a profitable market did nothing but line the pockets of organised criminals.
Small is beautiful, less is more.
P.S.
Are Kraft's PR company nosing around the harbour? - Tom - the economy always goes in cycles its a fact of life and yes, you should prepare for the next one when you come out of the present one. Brown should have done so by repaying debt in the upward phase of the economic cycle, he did not, he did the opposite and that means we were in a bad position at the beginning of this recession. We have a massive structural deficit, that is the deficit that will not be repaid by economic growth before the economy then retracts again in 7-10 years.
I remember in the 1970's there was a debate as to whether economic growth could be sustained, I believe someone gave a Dimblbey lecture on the subject at the time. Well we have had a lot of growth since then, thankfully, despite what luddites at the time were saying. The growth cycles are thankfully, as a rule longer than the contraction part of the cycle, hence that over the longer term we become better off. I cannot imagine that ending or we would be all much worse off and poorer.
I advise on personal finance as a fee based financial adviser but this blog is nothing to do with that. It does give me knowledge and training though that helps my understanding of the economy. (I was actually well read on economics anyway, long before I got into this profession). - i reckon 5 years and they will openly discuss it, heads are in the sand at present.
greece is trying to make an effort now to cut their deficit but all the public services went on strike today.
the government there will not make any cuts, they will be to frightened of public reaction.
tear gas was used on demonstrators today in athens. - Tom, nicely put. Glad to see someone else has read his Schumacher!
I suspect that both before the Agricultural Revolution and the Industrial Revolution most people would have looked upon the changes as a 'blip' and expected life to carry on much as before. Wrong. Wrong. Wrong.
Unfortunately we can no longer carry on consuming more than we produce, relying on borrowed money to keep us in the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed.
Empires have waxed and waned before. We are just going to have to get used to it.
- Good morning each and Barry,
Could it be that both the 'main' protagonists have shot their bolts? Is there nothing more to say, nothing more to be done to convince the great British populace of the merits of your cause?
In the mean-time I offer all my fellow electors another of my odes. This one was written with those stalwart voters in mind, the pensioners, enjoy, do.
Do not despair, those in their dotage
give your lamp, with vigour, frottage
awake your genius from within
all your tomorrows, today begin
with the voting pencil strike
your blow for who or what you like
should your choice be Red or Blue
this world, this time must then suit you
if this world works not your way
this election is yet your only say
please do consider option four
look down the list until your sure
to you from me, who too is grey
vote for the future. Come what may. - barry
two questions.
why have our representatives got a 2 week break, not for pancake day, i hope?
how does the greek situation enter the equation, we are not in the euro? - Don't know about why the break, Howard, but they have...
Greece could effect us in two ways that I can see:
1/A knock on effect, collateral damage if you will, should they default on debt. This could push up the risk premium the UK has to pay on its debt.
2/UK could be forced to help with a bail-out despite not being in the Euro. Brown was evasive on this point in an interview this week. - Good morning each and Barry.
You did once say, Barry, that you would take votes anyway you could. Little did we know then just how 'keen' some can be in this regard. Might there be a string quartet in the public gallery at the next PMQs?
Bathos, as such was called when it was Norman Wisdom doing it, so that may do for provenance. We Mr & Mrs. Grimsdales of Britain can see it for what it is. Pathetic.
It is, however a little unfair to drag Clegg into this for as you know full well he has shown signs recently of "growing a pair" and I cannot imagine Farage being anything but chipper.
I do wonder if we shall get a rendering of The Greatest Story Ever Told from these strolling players at the hustings.
On that one small point. Is there entertainment laid on at the count to keep spirits high all round? It is high time General Elections included some public 'pazzazz'. In the run-up to the result, that is. I would not wish a medley of dirges on my fellow electors. - Barry again we see the wrong side of you, Our son died at the age of 20years and I found him.even today years later when someone talks about him both my wife and me get very upset.The same could be said about Mr Brown,just to say he done it to get votes is very wrong and not right.Some of us do have feelings towards each other.
- I didn't watch it because I don't watch party election broadcasts, and that's exactly what it was. To use his family to get votes is appalling.
- Vic - you are totally missing the point. This is about the use of tears to gain sympathy for political ends, full stop.
He spent 3 hours rehearsing for that interview with Alistair Cambell and Piers Morgan, both good friends. To suggest that he did not do it for political purposes is naive in the extreme.
Besides - this was not having a go at Brown (if it was I would have focussed on his hypocracy due to what he said a few years ago) it is a dig at all politicians who go for sympathy for votes. - Sorry again but I do not agree with you,no one would use their own family in the way you are saying he did.
- He did though Vic. He was on TV last night doing exactly that!
- Again I would say that the question Marr posed to him was of great help to him from then on.
Q-Do you take medication?
A-No I do not.
I suspect that he does now take some form of mood-leveller.
With over one million dead in Iraq and counting, the economy and the lack of options so far in the Election it is a wonder that we do not all weep the whole day through.
Vic, every parent dreads knowing what you have come to know. Onward and upward, there is little else one can say. - sadly barry is dead right here(no pun intended).
the spin doctors in each party study the nation and their gradual lowering of taste.
ever since the death of princess diana, mawkishness has become de rigeur, every celebrity when caught with their trousers down or in possession of illegal substances knows that a few fake tears gets him or her off of the hook.
many of our politicians appear to have no scruples as evidenced by the expenses fiasco.
using trash television with fake tears helps get votes from people who normally do not vote at all. - ...second only to the Tories. Just to be fair.
It seems like only the other day higher unemployment was to be encouraged. Cuts across the board in Public Services can only mean just that.
These moments of clarity of which you speak, "... private sector and the way employees have been sensible in taking pay cuts or freezes and in some case gone to short time working to protect their jobs and employers. "
No mention of cuts in dividends, boardroom bonuses etc? Surely these well meaning employers efforts also merit a mention. - If profits are not there then there are no dividends Tom, that is the fact.
Also most people work in small businesses and have taken their pay freezes and pay cuts. These people get paid before the Directors can pay themselves anything at all. Often the owners of these businesses go months without any income. I know many examples of this.
As for the Conservatives, the Labour record on unemployment is far worse. You cannot claim that every period of Conservative Government ended up with more unemployment, it is not true in the same way that not every period of Conservative Government has eneded in financial crisis.
Even the unemployment increases over the 1979-1983 period were down to the preceding economic mis-management of Labour. As for now, yes cuts are needed and yes there will be more unemployment whoever wins the election but this is all down to the economic mess we are in now and the measures required to correct it. - To put he figures into perspective. These large figures look unrealistic and are hard to imagine without a context:
In January the extra borrowing (in a month when there is normally a surplus) £4.3billion was added to the UK debt.
Thats £4.3billion extra borrowing in one month alone....compared to:
in a full year we spend the following:
on the Environment (£2.6bn)
- Foreign affairs (£2bn)
- International development (£4.7bn)
- Culture Media and Sport (£1.6bn) - barry
60 economists yesterday backed the reds plans for a careful cut in spending over a long period.
only 30 economists back the blues plans. - I remember the 365 economists who wrote a letter to the Times back in 1982 complaining that Geoffrey Howe's budget would be a disaster. Economists just like David Blanchflower and the 60 this week, all Keynseyans......
They all had egg all over their faces howard. Howe's budget and the fiscal contraction was the catalyst for recovery and 8 years of growth and prosperity.
Am I concerned about the 60 economists Blanchflower dragged up to support Brown? Only 60, perhaps the other 305 have converted to monetarism or perhaps they dont want a re-run of 1982. No, not concerned at all, in fact my faith in human nature has been restored after the 20 economists last week who actually supported the Conservative policy.
Economists often are too much up their own backsides and forget common sense. Apply common sense to the economy and it says that you dont keep on pouring oil on the flames... Time to cut back on excessive public spending and get back to spending within our means.
- "Knocking copy" like these posters has to be used with care. You never know how many people you are going to alienate. The bottom one in particular is a gift to UKIP because the Tories have no policy to address the issue raised in the poster.
- These are all unofficial, done by bloggers and such like, Peter.
- Posters or no posters the Conservative campaign seems to be faltering somewhat. Even old warhouse Michael Heseltine says in the newspapers today "If I was a betting man I would bet on a hung parliament" I remember our Keef saying that a while back to much guffawing. Keef who has for the moment disappeared under a mountain of malfunctioning computers isnt here to rub his hands with glee at these words from Michael Heseltine.
Has the Conservative campaign peaked too soon. It looked good early on but now even today in an effort to re-kickstart the thing, they are now promising a return to Sid..you remember him?? the guy who bought shares in British Gas in the seventies, or was it the eighties.
Now Sid mark II may be on the cards with an offer of RBS shares being flagged up bigtime, again from the Conservatives, but is it just to boost their tired campaign? It did capture the publics imagination, this share buying thing first time round, but relevent to just a few share buying people i would have thought now, but is this a sign of desperation with regard to the faltering campaign? - PaulB - Heseltine has said that before and if you look at history and electoral arithmatic quite a few records will have to be set for Cameron to get an overall majority.
But there is plenty of evidence to say he will do it.
While Uniform National Swing says a lead of 11% is needed for Cameron to win outright, that never happens.
'Tactical unwind means that there is still a good chance of a Conservative majority at just a 5% lead. I did post about this previously, so any lead above 5% is a winning lead.
It is very helpful to Cameron to have this talk of a hung Parliament though. His biggest enemy is complacency about him winning.
The polls are generally keeping the Conservative vote in a tight band while votes shift daily between Lab/LobDems and Others varying the lead.
I certainly do not think the campaign has peaked yet, indeed it is a long way from getting into top gear, that wont happen until the election date is named. Far from faltering a lot of careful positioning has been going on. The share sale is not something just dreamed up but has been identified as a 'goer' for some time now. - Good evening each and Barry,
In the Red corner, all is beautiful...just as long as the economy continues it's upward progress by leaps and bounds.
In the Blue corner, events are puting the wind up Gordon which shall aid Dave with the wind down.
With all this wind it is little wonder that the 'sales' are here. I have forgotten how often one can buy what one already owns, but there is a lot of it about.
Las Malvinas, too are back in the news. Which manifesto is to have the best ideas for this little blot on the landscape, er, sea scape?
Perhaps to aid the unemployment figures one or other may consider forming a bucket-chain between the rig(s) and the exchequer? If reserves of oil and gas are discovered.
I favour more of a fifty-fifty split myself. - barry
the same gentleman, mr rawnsley also wrote some terrible things about the leader of the opposition .
helps sell his book i suppose. - It does howard. But the stories about the PM are receiving a lot of backing, even a charity that deals with workplace bullying has revealed it has received calls from staff at no10 over a few years....
What Rawnsley is saying about Brown looks pretty true....
- This is a very unfortunate development from a Labour point of view. After a very good PR week for Gordon Brown, where he showed his human side on programmes like the Piers Morgan interview..shedding tears over his lost child and clearly showing how much he loved his wife. This kind of heartbreak imaging, despite some scepticism shown by the commentators, goes down very well with the voter, particularly the woman voter. The result of these clever initiatives by the Labour gurus behind the scenes( Alastair Campbell leaps to mind) was that Gordon halved David Cameron's personal lead in the polls. In other words Labour were recently making considerable inroads.
The Tories were worried. They had disappeared off the frontpages completely. Piers and Gordon hogged the airwaves and the frontpages.
But..oh no what now...unravel time. These accusations of bullying, now backed up by a leading charity, could be catastrophic. All that ground previously made up will be lost unless they can prove these things untrue. Because the charity have involved themselves, this is not likely to go away as a story very soon. And as a result has almost certainly scuppered in PR terms the gains made last week. - the charity has made it quite clear that no accusation was levelled personally against the prime minister.
i would imagine that there would be a lot of temper and tantrums in such a high profile office. - That is not accurate, Howard. In one of the interviews the lady concerned said that there was at least one specific named allegation directed at Brown. She is limited to what she can say due to confidentiality
The point is that there is no real surprise here. A number of diverse sources have reported his temper, Nokia throwing, shouting at staff and so on. This started even when he was in no11. If there was just one isolated example then you could dismiss it but this all chimes true. - The comment referred to was to Sky News by the way...
- Howard - just been looking at the latest on this and what has struck me are all the denials from no10.
They keep denying things that were not revealed by Rawnsley, denied a physical assault, a official enquiry and so on... the spin operation is spinning like mad sending out red herrings to confuse things.
This is another indication of real substance. - "and Downing Street goes into full denial mode..."
Denial? They have not yet begun.
I cannot take in the enormity of the things being said about Tony Blair, a D Notice and the Dunblane school shooter, two household names (cabinet ministers) a Scottish Sheriff and a Downs syndrom girl from Aberdeen. What could connect these people? - There is an old adage that no political story should be believed until it has been confirmed by an official denial. 'No smoke without fire' also works in situations like this when smoke is pouring from every porthole of Brown's Titanic.
PG. - In my opinion the majority of traditional Conservative voters feel that their party have made a grave error in electing David Cameron as leader. I'm fast coming to the conclusion that (deep breath, buttocks clenched) labour may well be re-elected.
A confidential energy policy document unearthed recently by Channel 4 news highlights just one of the hairbrained schemes Mr. Cameron hopes will solve the oncoming energy crisis due to hit the UK over the next few years.
I despair really. With this as an example and his stance on Britains relation to Europe there really is no credible opposition to speak of and therefore no point in voting Tory if, like me, you consider yourself a traditional Conservative supporter.
All this pmqt piffle means nothing 'cept to those wonks and current affair junkies, such as myself, and is mere intellectual jousting before a captive audience.
Examine very, very carefully Tory policies during the run-up to polling day. It makes very bleak reading. - The fact is Phillip you are faced with a simple choice, a Conservative or a Labour Government.
A vote for anyone other than a Tory will help re-elect Brown.
I speak as a traditional right wing Tory myself who has no time for the green extremism and the man made global warming fantasy. I am also fiercely anti-EU and would love to see us out of that corrupt organisation.
Do not underestimate Cameron, he is a real social Conservative while Osborne is a fiscal Conservative, a good combination at the top. Yes we of the right have to compromise with those to the centre/left of the party as they have to compromise with us, that is how it has always been. This is essential to secure the broad based support that can win outright a General Election.
I am actually confident that overall we will see a Government far more to yours and my taste if Cameron gets elected. There will be some thing we wont like much, there always is, but overall it will be streets ahead of anything we have seen over the last 13 years (or even further, back to 1990 and the great betrayal).
By the way - look on ConHome at the profile of the Tory candidates expected to win if we form a Government. It will be the most Eurosceptic party and Government we have had since accession. Unlike Mrs T Cameron wont have a strong rump of eurofanatics to deal with. A renegotiation and change in our relationship with the EU is on the cards. - Wishful thinking I reckon Barry. You say that it's essential to secure the broad based support to win an election outright. I fundamentally disagree with this approach. Voters are crying out for something radically different to the percieved consensual politics which is where we stand now otherwise it's more of the same but with a different label. Where has centre ground politics got us? Absolutely in the mess we find ourselves in now.
We need strong and decisive leadership unafraid to go against percieved centre ground views, someone who is willing to stick their head above the parapet and announce exactly where they stand. What we have with Cameron is politics by focus group which is no different to the Blair project which got us into the mess we're in.
Nope, sorry I feel that angry with Camerons approach I'm half tempted to actually vote labour myself just to show the silly soandso.
You say that you are confident that overall we will see a government far more to yours and my taste - are you therefore saying that Cameron is telling us untruths regarding his policy agenda whereby once he is elected he will act completely differently?
Well if that really his approach he really can stick it.
UKIP here I come just to spite him and the likes of Yeo, Gummer and the rest of the useful fools. - Philip - look closely at what he is saying and you will see a social conservative to the core but with a few 'modern' attitude grafted on. Look too at Osborne and you will see a fiscal Conservative that you can support.
The fact is you have to get elected into Government and you cannot do that based on the core vote alone.
Purity is all very well if you dont actually expect to govern.
As for UKIP - well what a wasted vote that is. Poor old Vic, I wonder what party he will be in a month after the election? There's not many that he has not tried yet, Green maybe or perhaps the Socialist Workers? Who knows. - Socialist Worker - sounds like a bit of an oxymoron to me Barry!
- barry
you continually go on about the blues being euro sceptic.
what does that actually mean?
to my mind it is like saying that you do not like a criminal family living nearby but not doing anything about it.
i speak to many of your traditional voters, they say much the same as phil is saying.
the reds betrayed a lot of their core support in order to get elected, looks like the blues are going down the same road. - No Howard - The Conservatives will not roll over and accept anything the EU throws at them. Will not join the Euro, will change the law requiring any more loss of sovereignity to be subject to a referendum before implementation. Will re-negotiate our relationship with the EU and get back powers from them.
These are not mere election dressing, these are things the Conservatives believe in.
Personally I am part of the growing proportion of Tories who want to see out of that organisation all together. I am convinced that the increasingly amount of hostility towards the EU in the Party (and country) will see us get out. - Thank you Barry but I will still be with UKIP.I am the chairman,what I will be doing then is up to the voter. But UKIP in Dover and Deal, are now and then looking and geting ready for next years locals.UKIP is in Dover and Deal for the long term. Vic Matcham.
Chairman UKIP (Dover)
and (Deal) - Good morning each and Barry.
Vic, take heart. You may yet be too busy here in London after the election.
All polls concern themselves with betting on a race that is not being run this time around. One recent such from the Telecgraph is reported thus by Reuters...
"The survey of 1,533 people, carried out between February 19 and 22, gives the Labour party marginally more seats than the Conservatives, although no party would have an overall majority in the House of Commons, the lower chamber of parliament."
"The Lower Chamber",! I ask you do these people gain their knowledge of English idiom from the back of cereal packets?
Each loss of ground by the Reds and or the Blues is given to the other. In all probability this is just not so. It strikes me that more and more of the electorate are roundly sickened by this two-horse race scenario. In the abscence of a Reforming Independent UKIP has a real chance to pull off a win in Dover and elsewhere around the country.
It is a sad fact of party politics that Dave and his gang has had little to show for themselves these last few years other than as a foil for the failed policies of the Reds. Dave will have to get out from under the dead weight of Labour proposals and Lead. But, no. Without what the Reds have to say the Blues are mute.
The time has come to put these two partys out to pasture and leave Politics to the people, for the people, by the people. - You are whistling in the wind Tom.
The poll you refer to makes assumptions on the silly Uniform National Swing model that makes good headlines but is not realistic.
More intelligent models give the Conservatives the possibility of a majority with as low as a 4% lead.
A poll with a sample size of 5000 was done this week for politicshome designed to get a direct comparison between national figures and what is happening in the marginals. I posted elsewhere on this and it backs up to 4% lead hypothosis. - Mr Austin. Thank you for that, And yes we are doing well in Dover and Deal. and again thank you for your support.I have at this time two teams out one in each town,each voter in the Constituency will get a letter come leaflet by post soon,I will be out as soon as my leg lets me. And Barry it is along way to the winning post yet and over fences as well time will tell.
- a daily mail columnist today made the point that mr cameron has still not given a convincing reason/reasons to vote conservative.
another paper said that the blues had set up a special unit ready for a hung parliament.
i find that quite astonishing with the unpopularity of the government that the blues have still not made themselves stone bolt certainties. - I have been told today that UKIP could win up to about 6 seats in the south east ,well we wait and see,makes you think if that is true what ones will they be.
- Vic, if that happens, there'll be piggies flying over the White Cliffs of Dover, (just you wait & see!). Actually I think it's great that you are standing, you will split the Labour vote enough to give Charlie a shoo-in.
- Mr Garstin. Nice to hear from you I do not think we know each other,but as both of us have said "It is wait and see."I think we will see a high vote turnout this time about 80% there lots of the public out there that only vote now and again and this time they will be voting to kick out the two main partys.I will not go into why at this time, we can see that in the papers and the T,V, and by just looking all around us.As for the split vote "Yes" but from both partys not just the reds. Again nice to hear from you please stop me when you see me coming round with my team over the next few weeks.
- Good morning each and Barry.
There is little that lifts the mood more than the thought that UKIP shall split the Red vote. More "bats and belfry" than "blue birds"., as I see it. I intend no offence and thanks for tip PG.
I too am hopeful of a much increased turnout this time around and consider 80% to be a conservative estimate. Could it be that those dusting-off their voting habit do so to bolster the usual suspects? I think not.
As old habits are hard to shake the media continues to address the voters with points for and against this one and that of the big-three and in doing so preaches only to the choir. The congregation meanwhile looks to the 'new-age' of politics only one of which is UKIP.
Farage has done little to help Vic this past week, but he does seem to still speak for many the little-Englander.
The more Red sees Blue and Blue sees Red as the only other game in town the more the congregation shall stay away. - all the evidence shows that the UKIP take votes from traditional blue supporters, the reds will be much more concerned about the BNP standing.
- Listening to John Stafford on the Today programme earlier this morning it occured to me that David Cameron should heed the words he spoke during an interview. Strangely enough when interviewed by Nicky Campbell on Fivelive a little later his remarks met incredulity. Now why is that Methinks. BBC bias? Of course it is and this is possibly why David Cameron is afraid to appeal to his grassroots supporters because he doesn't want to be seen as the leader of the nasty party.
So you have to ask yourself who is really setting the agenda for the next election - the party itself or the metropolitan media. We wouldn't want to upset them would we? - You make a good point Philip. The media narrrative is important and to get elected politicians have to make compromises. It is true now and was true in Mrs T's time.
- Public spending has always been the target for cuts.
Nationally, Local Authorities are expecting 20,000 to 25,000 plus jobs to be lost.This is obviously going to effect Dover and East Kent.
To reduce the effect of this on Dover and East Kent and to benefit all our taxpayers is for our four District Councils to merge all services into a Unitary Council of East Kent.
The economies of scale will save millions and avoid cutting our services.
Dover District Council must now evaluate this option for the sake of our services and the Dover and East Kent taxpayers.
Question to the Leader of Dover District Council at full Council tomorrow - Good morning each and Barry.
"Policies are not paramount."
I will have to remember that the next time any enquire as to the 'policies' of sundry Independents shortly to arrive in the HoCs.
"Of more importance are the underlying values that inform those policies "
Too true and alas much of this still lives on in the memories of the electorate; Manufacturing swapped for marches, taxation to keep the poor in their place, Presidential dictat~ so beloved by the 'new' left. Not to mention the mountainous over-time for the forces of authority; the better to destroy communities up and down the land.
The most telling point though is, "the broken society", not for the Blues any ownership, not "our" broken society.
Leadership? Is this the ability to address the choir in strident terms?
Profit before People. What a shame this driving principal has taken such a knock before Dave could get his hands on the reins.
The Markets took on the attention span of the Goldfish for the selfish ends of only those involved at the top. At the top of Financial Institutions and the top of Politics; both Red and Blue. The populace then is told that they must pay (yet again). Meanwhile these same Markets in their drive for short term gain short-sell the Pound, inform the electorate; "Vote Blue, or else".
Is there nobody to put the country first?
Should Dave regain his seat at the next election he shall have an opportunity to display leadership, of the party at least. By helping to form a Government Of National Unity, whether he is to be in it or no. - ...the wheels seem to be coming of the Blue cart.
What with the overt support of both Sun & City I am reminded of another of Mrs.T's joys, Apartheid South Africa.
Now. What was the name of that terrorist? - Why has every Labour Government failed?
Because they ran out of other people's money. - Instead of attacking past Labour administrations the Tories would do well to give the electorate at least some idea of their vision for the Country. As I mentioned earlier they would do much to boost their position in the polls by renouncing their green policies. Every sensible person in the Country knows a scam when they see it and hate it as much as they hate, for example, the MPs' expenses scandal. They have to come clean on the green con. Without doing so they deserve to lose the election.
- I dont disagree Philip but to win Cameron must win votes from accross a broad spectrum and green votes will be important in that.
As far as polcies are concerned there have been a steady drip, drip of policies since January and that will continue. But he must also place the Labour record before the country too, lets face it, no-one wants 5 more years of Brown and that stark choice is an important one. I have here made a case against him using just a small amount of the available ammunition. - there is a danger of falling between two stools here.
any votes he gains ny being "green", may be heavily outweighed by core blue voters turning their back because of this very issue. - Good morning each and Barry,
Let's face it. Over the years electing Red was a relief from the Blue.
The Blue take care of themselves ONLY!
The Reds ,up until recently, took care of the rest.
A bit of the David Nixon, this Brown with; more red tape and less regulation, nice trick.
It is now time for a Government to be formed that shall take care of all. That is neither Red or Blue.
Bob, whose money is it?
It is not that money is spent, but that it has been squandered. The unearned philip to the fortunes of the medical profession was one such waste that springs to mind. Much more wonga for way less work. Was this money (millions) saved, invested or spent?
PFI, another neat trick to grant the financial wheeler-dealers a profit from work that up until then was not there to do.
The Blues rely on fewer of the landed classes and more on the middle-men. Exactly as the Red have done.
Both the usual suspects see making money out of money as the way to go, well, now it has gone.
Now is the time to reassert the superiority of Government over financial markets. We can no longer derive our nations worth from over dinner deals between the entirely self serving few.
Clause 4? Like nationalise the banks? Nationalise the debt? Privatise the profit?
If the present situation suits you
then you can vote for Red or Blue
sould you hanker for something more
show both the Blue and Red the door!
- To determine how the government has failed, it's all summed up in Dover: For a long time the British economy has been milking Dover, as a massive proportion of trade and commerce passes through our town and Port. Similarly other Kentish towns have been milked.
All the port revenues over the decades have been invested entirely in the Port, which for this reason is fully functional. Directly or indirectly a part went to the national Treasury, but not a penny was ever invested into Dover Town. Obviously, our two ports (Eastern and Western) should be administered by the local Councils (Town or District) by way of a local economic administration board, and not by any private owner.
The existing port-service revenues ought to be increased by way of a toll on all non charity goods vehicles (lets say 50 pounds), and also on cars (lets say five pounds) and buses.
This would bring Britain slightly in line with many European countries which charge motorway tolls and tolls for passing through mountain tunnels. Even then, to be in line with these European tolls, the figures I proposed for port-service tolls in British ports (adding to the already existing revenues, obviously) would actually have to be much higher (hundreds of pounds for each heavy goods vehicle). If you are not sure, just find out on internet how much motorway tolls are in Europe for lorries, and how much a ticket costs for a lorry to pass through an Alpine mountain tunnel!
The port revenues should be divided between Town, District and County Councils, and the national Treasury. Obviously, Kent does not need to buy Kentish ports, they belong to us already, and not to some private owner OR to the government co. LTD! and the revenues coming in would be constant, but not fast enough for the government to cover up some bankryuptcy and try to win the elections. So! They thought they would quickly sell us into slavery directly to a private owner, who would milk us over the years, in return for a one-time lump sum payment to the government, so that the government can eat our flesh!
Once they did this, they'd start selling all British ports into slavery to private owners in return for one time lump-sum payments!
We said NO! democratically, through freedom of expression and petitions, so they would have to smash democracy in order to sell British sovereignty into slavery to private owners.
Alexander, Dover. - Good morning each and Barry,
This bubble was pricked before the invasion of Iraq.
Our troops faced an 'enemy' equipped with and ready to use battfield chemical and biological weaponry, so went the rationale at the time. Yet our troops had NO defence against any of these threats.
We either sent our troops to certain death or the whole thing was a lie.
We now know which.
Beside this the odd chopper is neither here or there.
How could these circumstances have been improved? Oh yes!
"The man from Belize, he like to say 'yes'!" - Tom - you are totally wrong. The British Army have the best NBC equipment in the world (or had, not sure of the position now). They regularly trained in the Gulf getting into and out of their NBC suits.
That was a result of Cold War planning.
There is a thought that Gulf War syndrome was caused as a side effect from the drugs taken that were supposed to help protect the troops from chemical attack. - ...this is not quite as rosey.
From the Commons Defence Committee...
"The committee says there were "serious shortcomings" in the supply of nuclear, biological and chemical protection equipment.
Ideally, troops should have been given four protective suits each but instead had only one, although the Ministry of Defence judged that enough.
Combopens, used for inoculations in the event of a gas attack, were also so scarce they had to moved around in Iraq to keep up with troops' needs.
The MPs say: "Had the Iraqis used chemical weapons systematically, as employed in the Iran-Iraq war, the operational consequences would have been severe. "
Pardon me, do. If I do not share even this degree of optimism. - this is costing alot of money it should be droped the war is over and that is the end of it, all wars are bad but it happens.
- Elections are rarely won or lost on issues such as how well equiped our armed forces are. Unfortunately the Tories have elected a stupid Man as their leader which is exactly why the idea of a hung Parliament is increasingly becoming apparent. He has no redeeming features and no policies which might inspire voters to elect him. He is the elephant in the room and it's too late to change him. It's the best hope the Tories have and have to make the best of a bad job.
I would like a list of, say,three of his bold policy statements to inspire the Nation. Just three is all I'm asking. Anyone? - Philip;
Sadly the policy options available to both the Red and the Blue amount to nothing more than fiddling with the situation. They each have nothing more to offer than a fight-back to where we were before the bubble burst.
We are all in this together, we each have our part to play. We all must take care of those who took no care of all of us. We are set to live-out the Belize model should we vote for Red or Blue.
We in Britain have been living under the heel of some charming invader. The question at this election is whether we as a nation wish to volunteer for more of the same or strike out on our own to reclaim the promise of Democracy.
If the present suits not you
do not vote for Red or Blue - philip makes a very valid point about election issues.
there are many topics that get people hot under the collar but usually it is only the economy that makes people vote.
how much more tax will they pay will be the issue this time.
will it be direct from the wage packet or on things like vat.
no party has clarified that, all waiting for the others to put their foot in it. - Well, there you are Philip, I covered one topical policy matter here, one to warm the cockles of any traditional Tory.
Go to the unofficial 'grassroots' Conservative site, conservativehome.com and you will see a lot of discussion about policy and other matters, not all of it being slavish to the 'Party line'. An excellent site for anyone sympathetic to the Tory cause even if not sympathetic to the leadership.
You can also visit conservatives.com and see a full range of detailed policies covering every area.
I do think that you are underestimating DC and remember well what was being said about Mrs T before the '79 election that was not entirely dissimilar. - The educational/crime smokescreen Barry but where are theygoing to introduce cuts, what has been announced so far is barely the tip of the iceberg
They still remain unconvincing which is why their lead in the polls is narrowing. - Alan, it is impossible and unwise to be specific about where cuts will fall. Before they can look at that in detail they need to get their hand on the Treasury's computer model. Also they need to know what break terms and clauses have been put in place on various projects to see what it will cost to get out of them. We know, for instance, that the Government has about £11bn of contracts for various projects that have been earmarked by the Conservatives to abandon, such as the National NHS Database and ID Cards. Only when they can see the contract details will they know the numbers.
It is certainly known that the Government is trying to tie the Conservative hands on some pet projects with penal clauses.
On Education one thing that will not cost a great deal of money and wont be hampered is what the above blog is about, changes to the curriculum. - A further point -----
One minute people complain about no policy and too much nocking of the opposition....
Some policy is announced (or in this case blogged) and accusations come about some kind of smokescreen!
People are strange!! - Just found the following on the Spectator Blog that shows just one problem the Conservatives have when it comes to being specific about needed cuts:
""""""""""So, the government is tying the taxpayer to £11bn of new IT contracts before the election, making the Tories’ planned immediate IT cuts very expensive. Is this latest example of a scorched earth policy? ......... there’s the rub. Brown scorches the turf beneath his feet as he governs: he cannot stop spending money.
An £11bn bender is irresponsible in this climate, plus Labour has a baleful record on IT contracts. It has bungled a staggering £26bn on flawed IT systems, many of which were introduced without pilot schemes. ........ These latest programmes are for the most part extensions of the failed NHS and MoD super-computer systems; will they be any more effective than their predecessors?
But this episode speaks more of the government’s mindset. Whatever the question, Brown’s answer is to throw good money after bad. It is scarcely credible that he can reduce the deficit within four years."""""""""""""
Says a lot about the mess this country is in. - when is see the words "changes to the curriculum" my heart drops.
our children will be used as a political football again and the teachers will have to learn a lot more stuff before they can teach the new syllabus.
time maybe for politicians to leave it to the educationalists i think. - The Reds do have their favourites, Barry. All these IT overspends mention the same names, the same companies, over and over again. It strikes me that the pattern that emergies is one of 'money laundering'; either that or some homeopathic treatment, potion or lotion to ensure electoral victory by giving all those who fail another opportunity and hoping that the habit catches on.
Are Gove's ides at all cost saving? Has there been an outcry about curriculum inadequacies? Or are we back to wrapping ourselves, sorry, yourselves, in the flag?
We are all in for stern lessons if we were foolish enough to elect either Red or Blue, but are tales of wifely-beheadings, polygamy and incest etc. the way forward, or a mere sop to the fundamental voter?
"Science curriculum, my Lord? Would that be the 1948 or the 1988?
Gove is stuck in the past and lonely, to be joined soon enough by all that choose to walk, or look adoringly, backwards. - Howard - are you suggesting that we just carry on with the present inadequacies?
The problem is that the curriculum has indeed been too undermined by Labour's pc agenda.
The Gove agenda is simply to re-introduce the teaching of history to make it more interesting as a narrative and to fll the blanks currently left. There is in fact a great deal written about the need for that so yes there is a demand.
I and other employers also demand that education is changed to betterprepare children for the real world of work. That is the other thread of what he is proposing.
The status quo is simply not good enough. - barry
education is just a politicians plaything and propaganda tool.
why it cannot just be left to independent academics to set the agenda is beyond me.
gove is doing the blair trick of dragging in "personalities" to ignite public interest.
it really does not fool anybody. - Well let's face it over the years, decades in fact, there stood an education system which was not perfect by any means but essentially served a purpose to inform and educate a child so that they might leave equipped with the fundementals that life would demand of them to lead a happy and productive life after school. That would be in the workplace or in good company where they would be able to carry on learning and inspire those around them and their children. This learning consisted of the basic three R's as well as a potted history of the World (Ok mainly the empire but that accounted for a rather large chunk of red on the map) and other hints and wrinkles which would give them some sort of preparation for future life.
However along with other convenient proxies including essentially culture and the arts, education has proved to be a useful tool in which to stage political battles which might seem far removed from day to day run of the mill politics.
For example whereas phonics was the usual method of teaching children how to read and write that was considered non-u for reasons beyond this debate which is why other methods were chosen and failed miserably to educate the masses which is one of the reasons so many young people are unable to read and write properly. Of course it's convenient to pass the blame onto "dyslexia" but that's merely a crock in my opinion. Generally, as far as I'm aware it's the left who have tinkered with childrens' education to its' detriment but the Tories are no innocents where that is concerned but let's take Tony Crosland as an example of the evils of left wing education. I shant repeat the words but Wikipedia quotes him as saying words to the effect that He wanted to destroy every clucking grammar school in the UK before his time was up. Note that's every grammar school which gave a leg up to poorer children who through no fault of their own has talent to learn and contribute to the Nation in one way or another.
Now David Cameron also believes that grammar schools are an evil. So much so that he has announced recently that he will send his children to state school rather than a private school. He is on record as to his hatred of the grammar school system but to use his children as political pawns on this issue is, frankly, despicable.
I care not what Gove says on the subject. We all know where the Tories stand on education and it speaks basically of inverted class war.
Sorry Mr. Cameron but no dice on this issue. We know where you stand and you keep scratching your head as to why you aren't finding yourself being shoehorned into Downing Street?
No it's not as easy as that is it?
Oh and I won't labour the issue of your parties latest energy wheeze which is so far out that hippies find the subject even mildly amusing. - Philip you said: """Now David Cameron also believes that grammar schools are an evil. So much so that he has announced recently that he will send his children to state school rather than a private school. He is on record as to his hatred of the grammar school system but to use his children as political pawns on this issue is, frankly, despicable.""""
1/ You are mixing up State and Private education, using State schools is not anti-Grammar, far from it.
2/ He has not said that he hates Grammars at all or that they are evil. The Conservative party under Cameron will still support existing Grammars. The only change of policy (one I regret) is to drop the pledge to build a new Grammar in every town.
3/ I hardly think that his saying he will send his children to State schools instead of private is using his children as political pawns.
Education has been used by the Left who's grip on the educational establishment is long standing to warp values and socially engineer. The Conservatives should not just sit back and allow that to continue and need to get education back to common sense. I want more selection, more streaming and more good solid old fashioned style of teaching, much of which you will get with the reforms being proposed. Sadly all we wont be getting are more Grammars but hopefully that will change in a second term.
OK Conservatives could leave it alone but why should we leave alone a failing second rate system undermined by years of dumbing down?
- Hello Barry and all of you! I think we should start educating children at school - even if it were one hour a week - in the elementaries of farm, factory and other basic work, with a little practical education in merit, which would still leave ample time for all the other subjects. On leaving school, British children would stand a better chance of finding work instead of risking to be declassified as inexperienced incompetent (lazy) and "too expensive to teach" individuals on the grounds that experienced 30-40 year olds from eastern Europe work harder and better.
In a system like that, no inexperienced person could stand a chance, so we ought to be looking at education in Britain quite closely! Here's how we could go about it, just bear another phrase with me, then I'll give you peace:
Democracy would allow British citizens to discuss a local issue in their own town or district and publicly put forward proposals, and after the public had time to weigh up the pro and the contra and debate the issue, to vote and choose the proposal they prefer.
This kind of democracy could also be applied nationwide to national issues.
Also, the laws guaranteeing citizens’ rights and justice could never be taken away, these being beyond democracy.
- Good morning each and Barry.
Inded Alexander. The one thing we need and should get at this next election is Democracy. No longer shall we-the-people be nothing more than an afterthought, or completely ignored by those who think themselves ordained by some higher power to rule over us.
The power is ours to wield and wield it we should. By not voting for any of the big-three partys.
How can they, these self ordained rulers, inform the voters of their plans for the future when the evidence of their neglect lies all around?
Educational improvement?
I have one. Take a leaf out of the Jsuits' book and ensure that the first seven years of a child's life all opportunity is afforded them to develop and grow as decent human beings and not, as now, mere fodder for a job market the needs of which few if any can predict.
Alexander. The availability of cheap labour is nothing more than the age-old method of keeping costs down and profits up and the people in their place. After all it is not the employer who has to meet the needs of an under-employed work force.
In the near future we shall have to work fewer hours and increase employment, on the job training and experience fronts, for those ill served by schooling. We can no longer talk of eternal growth in productivity at the expense of our communities, as we can no longer talk of inexorable profits from nothing more than sitting tight on assets and letting the less well off supply money for nothing.
Speculative parasites and those, like our present politicians, who slavishly attend to them are to be consigned to the dust-bin of history.
At this election we each should put ourselves and our families futures ahead of any thought to keep the few in a manner to which they are accustomed. This, after all, is what has brought us to our present state. - I've been on the Conservativehome website before and it reads rather like Pravda than, say, the Telegraph. Very bland and spattered with essays from prospective candidates who much of the time manage to turn blandness into something of an olympic sport each trying to outdo the next in order to neuter real debate.
Take this recent offering.....
conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/conservative-environment-network/
Meaningless, nothingness, a void of empty rhetoric hiding their true deluded ideas. - Good afternoon Barry and all.
Well, giving a thought to democracy again, as Tom rightly points out, no party of those we are used to in Britain has anything new to offer, and that's why, if we had the democracy based on public debates, public and individual proposals, and votes on individual questions, locally and nationally, we people could be proposing and debating and voting on each important issue, and there could never again be a system where a few persons are making the decisions over us and leading us into humiliation and failure.
We would be democratically participating in the affairs of our own Country, and also, people could make decisions in their own community. To give an example: the government and DHB both stated in the Dover Express many weeks ago, that they WOULD listen to public opinion concerning the sale proposal. Since then, there were petitions against the sale, it became a known fact that our Community is strictly against the sale, even I humbly sent a representation to the Transport Department as indicated by the gov., with a copy for DHB, as probably many did. What happened?
Weeks later, Dover Express was reporting the comments of the government officials and of DHB, and saying what? Not one word concerning Dover's Community's opposition to the sale, not one word about whatever other proposal was made by way of representaion, but just rantling on that THEY WILL SELL THE PORT FUL STOP. That's why I'd like to ask you, Tom, and Philip, how can we introduce democratically a system which allows our Country's citizens to take part democratically in proposals and to vote on individual issues, localy and nationally? It's the safest way I know of to prevent dictatorship and tyrany striking us ever again.
I've got no intention of being declassified by DHB to charity receiver in Somerfield carpark, I hope DHB realize this, that this is not their private town and they ain't going to sell any part of it to any private owner. Still, Tom, please remember, at the General Election, vote who you wil, but if you don't vote, this government could actually get in again. I WILL vote, I won't say here for whom, but I'm going to do my part in cancelling this government out of existence! - ..Alexander,
May I suggest that there is much here on Barry's forum that is me saying and re-saying many of the things you hold dear. It may be a better use of your time to pop along to the power2010 site. There has been much written there by people across the country on all things from real-time political action from the electorate (much as you wish to see it) to a written constitution, fixed-term parliaments.
I favour the election of many, many non-party local Independents; not to merely listen to local people BUT to take the voice of local people to Parliament. I might, if called upon, even find a term for it....
"Representative Government". ?? - Mr Austin, I wish you was in Dover,I would be asking you to join my team,we are now out in the streets and the towns with our UKIP Election campaign and it will go on right up to the the last day before the polls open. Vic M
- interesting to see this discussion on education, a new poll has just come out that shows the electorate prefer the reds over the blues on this issue.
only by 2 per cent and it seems that about 25% are undecided.
to me that translates as politicians should keep their noses out of it. - I seem to be having some real problems editing the blog - it just does not look the same when loaded as when I type it out!!!!! Sorry about the crazy spacing - just cant find the answer to that.
- interesting stuff barry, however i was reading today in the "independent" that the money thrown at the key marginals has not been as successful as anticipated.
the blues had a stranglehold until very recently, now they all look up for grabs.
the irony, according to the article, was that money from lord ashtray funded the campaign, now his reputation was losing the very support that he had purchased. - Actually Howard Lord Ashcroft contributed just 11% of the marginal seat money and the |Independent looked very stupid only a week or so ago when its funding claims were blown out of the water.
I would not worry too much about the Indies interpretation, it makes a good story but there is another tale from the same material.
The latest marginal seat survey showed up 95 Tory gains from Labour needing just 22 other gains from Libdems etc for an overall majority. A survey also showed the latter was possible. this was when the margin in the polls was at it narrow point. That high tide for Labour is now past.
The swing in marginal seats is 2 to 3% bigger than overall, in other words we are winning where it counts, the 140 battlefield seats. - Hello Barry and all of you! Barry, if you win, could you let us know what will happen next? I just couldn't figure out what the Blues want to do if they got in. All I know is some nominal opposal to mass immigration, possibly a cut in the NHS, which I personally consider wrong, and no explanation if they would stop putting almost every job in Britain up to grabs in the whole e.u. in the name of equal opportunities to all.
Concerning the e.u., I assume the e.u. parliament is meant, I was wondering if the twelve stars will start falling off their heads soon.
Do you know, Barry, that the Twelve Stars don't really belong to them, but to a Lady in High? They've given themselves a sheen of almighty onnipotence. That's why they do everything undemocratically, because as gods almighty, they don't need to ask the people, do they!
Thanks Tom. I'm on the Daily Express Blog, lots of interesting comments there too from the people. - Alexander - you can see the policies on conservative.com.
The priority will be deficit reduction and there will be an emergency budget as soon as possible (within 50 days).
You are wrong about the NHS, that spending is ringfenced and protected. Personally I think the NHS needs cutting too so the burden of necessary cuts are spread more fairly.
There is an educational reform bill ready for the off and will be acted on almost immediately after the election.
There are proposals to reform the NHS too, much overdue.
yes, a clampdown on immigration.
Locally elected police chiefs to determine operation priorities.
A bill to ensure that any more treaties from the EU are subject to a referendum plus a renegotiation of our relationship with a return of powers.
A Defence review (much overdue)
The point about Conservatives is that we are not too impressed by spurious and often unnecessary equalities legislation and measures.
Overall a far more Eurosceptic approach.
Also there will be less of a top-down approach and more responsibility given to doctors/head teachers and so on.
A full manifesto will be published and I will have much more to say on my blog when it is.... - I'm afraid I have to return to the sorry subject of the Conservative policy on climate change. I'm not a single issue kind of guy but their pathetic obsession with the climate change religion will cost us all dear. Camerons' stance on this issue makes labours' and the liberals' look like they don't believe in Man-made global warming.
I can't believe that a supposed Tory free-marketeer and one who allegedly stands for closing the gap between the richest and the poorest in our society wants to develop ways of making the poorer and the rich richer via his feed in tariff proposals centred around micro generation of electricity. The man is a fool.
Essentially his policies will enrich those who can afford to install solar panels and useless mini windmills and other already dated technologies to generate power and make poorer many millions of others who can't afford to buy them. It's disgusting. The man is a menace and is stands as one of the leading reasons why many traditional tory voters will vote for, say, UKIP.
You know a couple of years ago when there was a local council election the front doorbell rang and I was very suprised to see a former tory front bencher canvassing for the local candidate. Amongst other items I raised was the tories attitude to climate change. This joker told me he didn't believe in the theory. I gave my vote to the local tory candidate.
I'm still kicking myself when I learned that like a good sheep, he had indeed voted yes to the climate change act.
What other hairbrained schemes does the boy David have up his sleeve?
Once bitten twice shy. Don't expect me to vote for these jokers. - Hope you vote UKIP then Philip,we are the under dogs,but after being out in the streets now for two days,I have had some very good feed backs from the public I hope that will carry on. Vic Matcham UKIP DOVER.
- barry
in your last post you mention a new education bill as priority in the event of a blue government.
you then go on to echo my view about head teachers having control of their schools.
to me this is a contradiction. - Howard - no contradiction, central to the Conservative reforms is to get more responsibility to heads, particularly over discipline. I have posted on this before, a lot of beaurocratic requirements and targets will be dropped. The education bills is prepared and ready to roll.
- Barry,Hot off the papers this morning,Telegraph.co.uk
This is why Mr Cameron wont last past the first challenge to his leadership.
So if he only has either a minority government or a small majority he will be booted out.
We need to be aware of it.He won,t last 18months.He is storing up enemies even inside his own parliamentary party. - Dont get too worked up over such stories Vic, they said the same kind of thing and worse over Mrs T.
- Good atfernoon to all!
Thanks Barry, you were illuminative concerning Tories programme, and sincere. About NHS, what I meant was, that I don't believe it should be tampered with unless they guarantee it won't be reduced in any way concerning the services offered. To simply take money away from it so as to cut public spending wouldn't be fare, as, though I am as fit as a fiddle today, many people are not, and I read some ugly articles about patients drinking water from plant pots in a British hospital, and being left unattended, owing to gov. imposed spending cuts.
Still, I would only vote for a party that promisses to get our Country immediately out of the e.u., without dealy.
Let me assure you Barry, if you will, that NO government in Britain could ever achieve anything worth mentioning unless we break first the e.u. chains of tyrany, that has transferred national legislation to a parlaiment of self-proclaimed untouchables and has been busily destroying national conscience, in Britain, and also elsewhere too! For the e.u. parliament, democracy and other views simply don't count! What they have done is totally against our Constitution, and completely undemocratic. I respect your views for Tories, but even they couldn't change anything at the end of the day unless we leave the e.u. immediately. You see, legislation and trade and commerce have been so much tampered with by direct decree of the e.u. parliament and their supporters in certain European governments (and Blair), that now, we import from Poland that which recently we still produced ourselves, just to give one example.
The e.u. tyrany wants to make it imposible for any country to leave the e.u., by puting trade and commerce upside down. This also affects climate. too, owing to the carbon tyre print. - Watching from the outside, Mr Osborne is not liked by the general public and I'm sure the Labour party will welcome the conservatives pushing him as the main man.
It was Mr Osborn's comments that pushed the conservatives down in the polls, maybe the conservatives should re consider the tactics. - On the contrary, it was George Osborne who's 2007 Conference speech was the main reason Brown bottled calling an election then.
Don't be too impressed by Labour spin, they hate Osborne because they fear his tactical skill. His role as campaign manager is exactly the right role he should play in the election. With Clarke taking a leading role in the economic debate Labour should be scared. - Barry one for you,Please tell me what you know about the reds Fabian Society,
- Vic - they are a left wing think tank affiliated to the Labour Party, quite an old one. Most Labour PMs and notables have been members of it.
I believe they are more evolutionary than revolutionary in their outlook. - Thank you for that but need to know lots more,I will look up on the webb. Look forward to seeing you soon.Vic M
- The idea of cutting public spending to reduce the public deficit, or debit, does not work out, if cutting jobs is meant by it. If 500.000 jobs in the civil service sector were axed, even calculating an average salary of 2000 pounds a month, it would mean spending 12 billion pounds less in one year. There is no way 12 billion pounds saved in one year through less public spending is going to substantially reduce the public debit, other than by six or seven percent!
Furthermore, it would mean reducing five hundred thousand people into unemployment. The Tory programme of reducing public spending doesn’t work out, if it meant axing jobs.
About a billion pounds would have to be taken off the 12 billion pounds to cover benefits for the 500.000 new unemployed, and many of these would go personally bankrupt with their families, with a spate of home-evictions, and obviously they’d buy less, further weakening the economy, which would also cause less tax coming in through less sales on the retail market. Also, a couple of billion pounds less would come in the Treasury due to less income-tax, as the 500.000 newly unemployed wouldn’t have an income. The public deficit would still remain almost as it is now!
The agenda doesn’t work out, it leads no-where!
If the Tories DON’T want to axe jobs, then how are they going to even scratch the surface of public deficit without a new concept to go by?
Only by axing the chains of the e.u. parliament can a British Government find an agenda to work upon, and this has nothing to do with reducing public spending in the home-economy sector, civil servants included.
A Government would have to introduce policies based on production, trade and commerce, getting back our factories which the e.u. monetary policies made close down and transfer to Eastern Europe and to Asia forcing us to import even our own clothes. A disgrace!
If the Tories do not realize this, they stand no chance of getting anywhere in a new Government, they’d fail within months!
It’s not the public spending on civil servants that’s too high, it’s the lack of income from home production and exports that cause the public deficit, because not enough money is coming in. And this IS caused by deliberate e.u. trade policies which were aimed at closing down whole sectors of British and Western European economy, and then actually flooding Britain and Western Europe with cheap, unwanted Eastern European labour on top of it all. A double plague!
If the Tories can’t grasp this, then they ought to wake up to reality. If they woke up, and announced they will get Britain out of the e.u. WITHOUT DELAY, they’d stand a very good chance of governing, probably in coalition with other non e.u. agenda parties.
The e.u. parliament has been steadily destroying freedom of legislation, democracy and economy, because the people running that parliament are FAILURES.
This valid advice to the Tory supporters doesn’t change the fact that I’ll still campaign for true democracy on single issues locally and nationally, and for local economic administration boards at District and County level.
- Could someone briefly explain the difference between UKIP and BNP? Which stand more chance of winning?
- in short both.
- Alexander BNP are an ignorant rascist group of extreme left wingers (erroniously described by some as right wing) who want widescale nationalisation.
UKIP are on the right, more akin to Tory traditionalists who want out of the EU, an aim I share.
Neither have a hope in hell of forming a Government and are just a side show, a dangerous one in the case of the BNP.
As for cuts to public spending there are a number of basic errors in your economics. Your suggestion of 500,000 redundancies and a very crude calculation of cost savings is a tiny part of the calculation. Salaries, pensions, heating and accomodation costs, pensions, computer systems, stationary.... the list goes on.
Cuts dont start and stop with redundancies though. What about simply reducing what we expect a Governemnt to actually do. What about getting Government out of our daily lives all together. what about finding cheaper ways to do things. Right now the Labour Government want to spend £11bn on massive computer systems alone. The Guardian revealed that 35% of all Government computer projects just dont work..... Huge waste there.
We could drop all together the ID Cards, the national NHS Database, The Personal Accounts and we the public would not notice and that lot would save over £30bn alone. There are more too like that.
first of all there simply has to be massive cuts simply because the Government spends too much and must act the way a sensible family does when it owes too much money.
The Government is an inefficient and top heavy organisation that is in desperate need of culling.
People currently working in the public sector can be freed up to work in the wealth creating private sector. Many of them are highly qualified and will easily find new jobs and others will start their own businesses
There will not be suddenly a mass of redundancies flooding the market it just dont happen this way. It will be over a period and many will be quickly absorbed back into the private sector. With the right policies the Government can shift a huge burden away from the private sector and encourage economic growth and this will produce the extra jobs.
Cuts must be made and the longer the Government delays doing so the deeper eventually they must be.
- alexander
in answer to your question about the BNP and UKIP.
neither have chance of winning, but both could affect the result.
UKIP traditionally eat into the blue vote and BNP into the red vote. - Howard. I must say we are doing well out in the streets,we have been stoped and told that they are going to vote UKIP this time round,I have only had one person who said"That is going in the bin and I will not read it,I said"Please just look at my photo first or cut it out."
- Good afternoon each and Barry.
Yes, indeed Barry. This election is more and more about anything other than the people, the electorate. As these Party Leaders cannot slap their manhood on the desk they do the next best thing, show off their 'tottie'.
Vital royster-doysterers all.
Alas, this guff about this one and that not forming the next Government, only spoiling it for those who may, is nothing more than the black-mail-lite approach of old. Why not simply trust that the public have ears to hear and eyes to see what is going on?
Why should the work of the commons be made easier while life for the rest of us is to be all the harder? Let us hope that we shall have a Parliament that closely reflects the will of the electorate and call upon all there to do their best for all.
[a small note of personal sadness. I shall not have Broadband again until the end of the month. My 'unsullied' ISP has lost the meaning of the 'P', Provider' and has stranded me in a limbo]
- Good afternoon Barry and company,
well, I dunno what to say about wives making appearances to collect votes for their consorts, unless they have some new agenda that might affect governing. But still, Barry, you simply ought to realize that the e.u. trade policies and monetary policy does not allow the producing sectors of industry and agriculture in Britain to recover, neither for the home market nor for export.
If the Tory party does not understabd that we must first leave the e.u. before ANY change for the better can be made, than that means they cannot get us out of bankruptcy.
As for you previous reply. if you advocate cutting needless expenses in the public sector, I agree with you, however, I still think that any e.u. agenda party will go the step further and start axing jobs among civil servants, and will not be able to do anything to redeem our battered production sector. Just to give an example, you didn't explain to me if the Tories would stop putting Britain's jobs up for grabs in the e.u. countries. I still can't understand how masses of Eastern Europeans can just march through and grab the jobs, other than the fact that they are experienced, and many young British people, and also in their fifties, are discriminated for being inexperienced. It's the other way round, it's not the Poles being discriminated by me, British people are being discriminated by them. We are being forced to sign on, and they march through and grab jobs. It must end, UKIP or BNP. I vote for survival in the name of common interest.
It's the British "lazy and inexperienced and too expensive to pay" people who are victims of e.u. psychopathic hatred. Citizens rights mean that Poles have a right to priority in Poland, this is Britain, and not Poland, and I'm voting for survival of our Country.
If you really believe that we should be freed from e.u. chains, I'd suggest you make this known to the Tory party, because otherwise they may not realize what their own supporters want.
But still, it's not that I despise the Tories, I don't, only, it's time they woke up and said NO! to the e.u.. Meaning, we get out of the e.u. full stop and straight away. Otherwise they won't achieve anything. - Dont I remember all Tories in general deriding the appearance of Mrs Brown at the Party Conference. And then going on to deride Gordon Brown for his soft toned interview with Piers Morgan. A general scoff was the order of the day....until...whoops a daisy... these milestone media moments had a real and positive effect on the opinion polls in Labours favour and now they're all doing it.
The Tory poll stagnated, the Labour poll moved forward, following these exposures. I could have told them that myself. This proved to me that the Tory machine was late on picking up on this aspect of media relations, while the Labour Party grasped it well, took the early initiative, and were entirely on the case.
I dont know Samantha Cameron or SamCam as she likes to be called, at all, so perhaps her new media exposure might work, but Mrs Brown is certainly an asset for Labour with an appeal for the woman voter.
There are great swathes of people out there in busy bee lives who dont follow politics, probably dont have the time, but pick up magazines, particularly womens magazines, with these stories in them, the sway in the polls comes from there. - How stupid can people be .You dont vote for the persons partner /wiife etc .Its the person who is standing for MP we should vote for .If that is the case that people can be so silly ,next time round l will have to find a good looking rugby player who can speak and pose on my behalf .
the country is going down hill fast - Sue Join up with me,and I will pose on your behalf.in my y fronts..
- PaulB - What was derided about the Brown interview was that it was heavily reheared, including the tears, with Brown's pal Piers Morgan.
The point is there are tears and then there are tears.... No-one doubts that the death of his child hurt Brown but to exploit that the way he did just before an election was wrong.
The other reason for deriding Brown is simple - he attacked DC for this in the most personal terms. 'My family are people' he said, well that did not last long. As soon as he is desperate for some political boost he conveniently forgets what he said before.
I devoted a blog to this matter.
Alexander. Any mainstream party that tried out an election platform such as you suggest has no hope of forming a Government. Winning an election is about obtaining a broad appeal and that means compromise. If a Partry did what you suggest then, rightly or wrongly, they would be painetd as extreme and the 'floating voter' would run a mile.
That does not mean that we will not exit the EU at some point but there will be a time to push the issue, now is not that time.
You are excessively pessimistic about the freedom of the UK Government to act by the way.
Incidentally you can thank Labour for the influx of Eastern Europeans, they had an opportunity to restrict access by their cheap labour as other EU countries did for a transitional period but they did not do so. - Only a fool would believe anything any of the politicians say especially on the run up to an election. One only has to remember the promises made by labour regarding the referendum and the subsequent court ruling to remember that fact.
Face it, they will say anything, anything if they think that they will gain an extra few votes by doing so.
The television debate will be nothing more than mere entertainment and enjoyed by wonks and those whose jobs depend on reporting the ins and outs of politics. It will represent nothing more than a televisual spectacular and will be hyped up by all participating television outlets with bongs and snazzy graphics and more bongs and even more bongs - and that's just the adverts telling us all to watch the " Claaasshhh of the Toooiiittans".
I shall make a point of not watching. Not because I'm not interested in current affairs but hate to see the political process lowered to what is in effect a glorified sofa punch up.
Wake me up when they ditch this stuff and talk like grown up and not groaning ups. - BAZ
If you watched Gordon Browns interview on Sunday he made it clear his children will NEVER be part of any photo shoot/campaign or whatever.
We are getting into a celibrity status type election, I don't like it, actually turns me off politics.
And im more interested in politics that most.
Havn't heard anyone say a good word about it as yet. - Well what's happening here Keef is the Americanisation of our political process. In the USA this kind of sentiment with wives kids and so on, has been done for years and to good efffect at the polls. Im not sure of the psychological ins and outs of this but the results from those pursuing this line are very good. The First Lady thing has been a huge factor in the USA for years. How she looks, how she is, can get you elected..or alternatively send you on a one way ticket to Palookaville.
Sue its not that people vote particularly for the wives, but its more that people align themselves with them and as a consequence vote for what they represent. They like how they do things how they come across. Wives it seems are fascinated by other wives..one need look no further than the Victoria Beckham situation..she is or was, until the arrival of Cheryl, on the front cover of every magazine all across the UK all the time. Why this should be gawd knows..but be it does.
Its a phenomenon that politicians have to use. - Philip. You can be too cynical you know. Yes I can understand that cynisism fully, we have had 13 years of a Government where spin and lies are at the centre of what defines them.
Just today we hear that in the year after dementia was identified as a priority by the Government spending on it halved. So, yes cynisism has a good basis when looking at the last 13 years even if we ignore the blatent and obvious lies being told by Gordon Brown.
You also get the Libdems as exemplified this week. They have always tried to be all things to all men, changing their message to fit whatever Constituency they fight. This week at their Conference Vince Cable spoke about the need for cuts and attacking the Government while the next day when it was time to have a go at the Tories he attacked them for saying we need more cuts!!
But, not all politicians are the same. Cameron and Osborne have been giving the difficult and uncomfortable messages. They have said public spending cuts are essential and a start must be made now. They have even made the first moves to saying where the axe will fall initially. Yes they have not yet given all the detail of cuts (or tax rises), they can't for some very good reasons, not yet anyway.
I will be blogging on the economy in detail over a series of three seperate blogs running up to the budget, examining the economic dilemma and political positioning in a simple a way as possible. In particular I want to look closel at the impact on ordinary people, you and me, rather than only the 'macro-economic' factors. - PAULB
Still don't mean I have to like it - Barryw
Good job we got them tories, the only party that do no wrong lol - So then Keith, you can't challenge what I actually say so you just make bland and and rather silly comments. Better to say something substantial, interesting and challenging I would suggest.
- Its because this country has followed Americia in every way ,Politics ,Fast Food ,slang lazy way of dressing that this country has gone down hill
There is nothing wrong in the old Great Britain tradition ,stiff upper lip ,dressing and speaking correctly .
I donot need anyone to speak on my behalf .Im more than capable of speaking in public
I never use my family or friends .. . - Sorry to delude you, Barry, but concerning axing of jobs among civil servants as the next ugly campaign of any of these main-stream parties, I am right in predicting it. Dover District Council is about to axe forty jobs within their own ranks in the next three years, owing to lack of budget. Let me assure you, I will not vote for any e.u. party! The e.u. parliament might as well call itself the politburo, everything Democracy and national dignity ever stood for they are destroying. It's tyrany, and I know how to detect tyranny when I see it!
- Hi Barry! It further occured to me that at the latest budget decision at DDC, the financial Councilor stated he is not at all happy with the miserable budget that has been accorded by gov. for the year 2010-11 (10 million pounds and a bit) to add to the six million coming in through council tax, and so, once again, as Tories seem to be pressing for a drastic spending cut, you are saying one thing, that less money must be spent, but the Council is saying another, that they need more money! Which they do.
I think it's humiliating that council workers will soon be signing on with us. I don't like seeing people humiliated in their own country.
Further more, you simply do not answer my question, which I've posed twice: will the Tories put an end to putting British jobs up for grabs in the e.u. countries? We have millions of our own unemployed people to think of, you know!
- Alexander. You are way off beam. I did answer the jobs thing regaing the Eastern Europeans and Labour's failure to prevent them coming here when they had a chance.
The law prevents us from stopping EU workers coming here as it also prevents other EU countries from stoping British workers from going there. Simple. Eventually I do not doubt that we will be out of the EU and will get more power over that but it will not happen yet awile (UKIP cant ever deliver either)
The fact is there must, must and will be cuts to public sector workers in Councils and central Government. It will happen because the public sector is bloated and expensive.
How on earth could you deal with the record high levels of borrowing and the structural deficit if you dont cut spending. Growth will not handle the structural deficit (it would not be structural if it would...)
You cant push up taxes higher because they are too high now and will further damage growth, business and competiveness.
Spending must be cut, there is not other option. The sooner the cuts start then the less will need to be cut overall. That will mean public sector jobs will be lost, that is inevitable.
The struggling private sector cannot carry on carrying the whole burden of the recession, it must be shared by the public sector.
Ultimately it is only the private sector that will generate the economic growth and wealth that will pull us out of recession, not the public sector as they only consume wealth. make the private sector burden lighter and they can operate and do their job, and that includes job generation in wealth creation. - Barryw
I think your debate would hlod more water if i was not seen that bankers earn over inflated wages, big bonus's, and many over paid directors/.chief executives in many industries.
If this side of things was sorted then consideration to hit the poor would hold water, until then your on a loser - You and your old Labour politics of envy Keith. That is all it is. Labour's comeuppance is coming fast....
You are just following the Government smokescreen of spin trying to obscure Browns incompetence in changing banking regulation, screwing up the inflation brief for the Bank of England and unaffordable borrowing and spending binge.
Labour as they always do have messed up the economy, the longest ever period of Labour Government = the biggest ever economic crash. - Barry again one for you,please can you tell me what income taxs the MPs pay on their wages,and do they also pay any taxs on the rest as well.Thank you so much if you can help in this matter.
- getting back to barry's comments about immigrant labour.
maybe he is forgetting that the blues as well as the reds and yellows condone importing foreign workers from agencies that pay eastern european wages to win contracts.
our own workforce does not even see an application form for certain jobs. - Vic -they pay the same 20%/40% rate as the rest of us. they dont, of course, pay tax on expenses again like the rest of us.
Howard, it has always been the case that some jobs depend on imported labour. The difference is the sheer scale that we have seen since Labour's open door immigration policy. - Thank you for that Barry.
- Barry! Personally I don't think any British party wants recession, all I know is that no British party can govern our Country unless we are independent from the Politburo in Brussels. I thought Democracy was one of our biggest assets, but the Commintern centralisation parliament abroad has set about demobilising productive economy, freedom of national legislation and democracy. Any e.u. agenda government would be a lame duck!
- barry,i hope that doller bill is not a hint of tory poilacy,if so i would refuse to accept it as leagle currency.
- A lovely morning to all!
Wondering if anyone in the Tory party believes the civil servants will vote for them in order to be axed out of work!
I wouldn't! - Good afternoon each and Barry,
The Economy, like any mountain shall be worked on as well as worked around. The most important aspect of life and the future is Democracy.
Who is in charge?
The markets or the Government!
Spending shall go on and shall grow. We cannot hope to come through this Market-led and Parliament-supported recession without due regard to how to set the trends for the future.
As the old saw has it, "I owe the bank £1,000; that is a problem for me. I owe the bank £1,000,000,...; that is a problem for the bank!"
Nobody should waste their vote in voting either Red or Blue for they are in the pockets of foreign interests.
We MUST bring about Democracy, we must each and all do this by puting the interests of the Red and Blue to one side and filling Parliament with individuals who shall heed the needs of their constituents above all else. In this way those who think it is they that are owed by us as a nation realise that it is we, the electorate, that have all the power. We cannot at this election donate our power to any who wish to to serve others before the nation. If faceless money-men wish to prosper it is in their own interest that we grow and that will take effort and resources from them as it will from each of us.
Trident is finished and with an overwhelming disregard shown by the electorate for the usual suspects so shall many of the other contracts where the common-weal shall over ride sticky get-out clauses.
Only by voting for the ususal suspects shall we be tied to these 'political-promises' where so much else that is promised ever fails to materialise.
A whole new Democracy means a whole new way forward. The markets ignore the people at their peril!
- Tom, nice to see you back! But how can we have democracy on local and national isues if there is no constitution to enable it? All we have now is the centralised Politburo e.u. parliament dictating charters and laws that no Democracy in Britain voted for, and diminishing national legislation in Parliament. How do people manage to propose democracy, other than by expressing their views through freedom of speech and waiting for other people to agree that we should have the citizens' right to take part in decisions. At some point, the proposal would have to be constitutionalised, in order to be put into practice.
- Unfortunately I am unable to post on the main forum as PaulB will not allow me a user ID, however, I would just like to say that the sooner the port can be taken out of Trust i.e. central Government control and be owned and run by people who care about it and have a vested interest (i.e. - 1. the people of Dover, 2. the port workers, 3. the port users (ferry companies, etc), 4. the Nord-Pas-de-Calais Chamber of Commerce, if necessary and 5. any 'Sid' who wants to invest......the better. And that would mean removing the port's long-standing immunity from planning laws - a disgraceful situation.
Trust port status has done nothing for Dover over the years. The status quo is not an option unless we want the town still to look like this in a hundred years' time.
PG. - Good afternoon each and Barry.
YouGov?
My, but we move in tight circles Barry. I hear that the head of YouGov and the head of mums-net share the same table at breakfast. A small world right enough.
Alexander; thank you. I am being helped through this broadband-hiatus by my fellow townsman Carnegie; I am in the Library.
Our pipes, Alexander, would need many the refill if we were to chew over all the 'but how's. More healthy to consider what should not be done so that these ideas of a fairer and more representative Government are not still-born.
Vote!
Vote, other than the big-three.
Vote for these ideas via any who espouse them.
Vote.....Eight weeks or so to go and one week is a long time in Politics?
Barry, you do a wonderful job with but the most worn-out tools.
- Hallo Barry and all.
Barry, I think that people are judging who they will vote for according to the programmes that parties offer and explain to the public, so opinion polls do not really determine peoples choice at the end of the day. To give you an example, after reading in one newspaper article that there is s deficit in Britain of over 150 billion pounds, can't remember the exact figure, another article states that there is another deficit of over 850 billion pounds in Britain. I think that a party wanting to axe jobs among civil servants to get the debits down would have to axe all the jobs, get Britain into the Stone Age with no services, and, you know what, they will probably realize that they forgot to calculate the costs of benefits they'd have to pay all these new unemployed, and further realize that they forgot to calculate that these people couldn't afford the shooping any more like they used to, and consequently buy a lot less, causing lower economic production and retail sale and lower income into the Treasury because of it. This in turn would lead to factories throwing out more workers because of the lower demand, and so on. A vicious circle.
You do a good job, Barry, but as I've already explained to you, the e.u. trade and monetary policies and work-migration policies from East to West make it impossible for Britain to recover lost industrial production. Like that, our Country cannot pull out of recession nor out of bankruptcy and debit. If you want some good advice, just choose Britain and don't compromise at all with the e.u., we've got enough problems of our own to sort out without them dictating policies, or us getting involved in their own bankruptcy! - BARRYW
Theres no envy from me of the OVERPAID people within the banks, and other industries that have cost me and all of you
millions if not billions of pounds.
I have no problem with a company or bank or whatever that is doing well earning a reasonable wage.
We are at a point now that directors are awarding themselves millions iun bonus's even when the company/bank they are in is losing money, or being badly managed.
We have councils across the country with top officers as iv posted being paid over £150,000
KCC has just appointed a new post at KCC wage is £192,000
cant be justified
At some point we must say enough is enough.
Its not envy
Its UNFAIR - i must agree with you there keith.
when i have been on a bonus, it has always been dependent on the overall result of the company.
local authorities should be setting an example in an era of austerity. - Well as far as my own personal polling survey suggests that the "Tories", for want of any alternative word, have lost the election by a long chalk with votes going to the non mainstream parties. Having seen their newly published "energy policy" the deserve to be consigned to the dustbin of political history or at least until they elect a proper Tory as leader.
They will lead us all down the road to ruin. They tell us that they are Eurosceptic but they are nothing of the sort. If anything it appears they are set to embrace all that goes with that institution to an even greater extent than the liberals. Hells belles! I could never imagine saying that but unfortunately it's true. Don't believe a word they say when they tell you their position on this issue.
- philip
the blues are fully paid up members of the euro scheme.
a few nods and winks about being sceptical have not fooled anyone.
you mention the lib dems, at least they are honest about the issue. - True, Philip, the Tories are e.u. sceptics only to hoodwink people into believing what they'd like to hear, but in reality, if the e.u. parliament cliche says, at daily hop-scotch: jump six steps! the Tories will jump six steps, any direction indicated, just as Labour does. If you vote one, you have voted the other.
All they have in mind now is to expel in mass hundreds of thousands of people from jobs, probably civil servants, to grab their wages and use them to pay benefits to assilo seekers.
Because the e.u. imposed the assylo seekers law on Britain and Western Europe. - Hello Barry, I was wondering if you could let me know the total figures on British public deficit and debit in its various manifestations, I think I lost count. Thanks.
- interesting that icm sets the standard.
they have just released a new poll, the blues down 3 points.
this would leave them with a 2 seat "win" over the reds, but miles short of a majority.
maybe DC was wise in setting up a unit to assess how to operate in the event of a hung parliament. - Howard - also YouGov recorded a 3% increased lead to 7%. Like I say the polls are strange at the moment.
Alexander:
The latest deficit figures are to be announced in the budget this week and I would expect it to be around £160bn.
The deficit is of course the amount by which the Government is spending in excess of its income.
In February alone the figure was a record £6bn compared to £2.5bn in February 2009 which was itself an appallingly high figure.
The overall level of debt depends on whether, as the Government would prefer, you exclude banking intervention, pension liabilities and PFI. The figure given by the ONS is £857.5bn or in other words 60.3% of GDP as of Feb 2010. That is an eye watering figure and was 50.5% of GDP in Feb 2009.
You are totally wrong about the Conservative attitude to the EU. The old pro-EU Heathite era politicians have mainly moved on with Ken Clarke being the only significant pro-EU Tory now.
There has never been so much real hostility to the EU in the Conservative Party reaching the highest levels. A Tory Government will of course have to work with the EU and cannot just have continual conflict with them, but that does not mean buckling under to all their demands and does not preclude the demands of our own to repatriate powers.
I remain convinced that we will be out of the EU and it will be the Conservatives who will get us out. It wont happen soon but it will happen.
- Barry you haven't talked about the Conservatives useless energy policy. Don't you too believe that it will ruin the country?
- By the way isn't it strange that some violent crimes and crimes that affect people on a regular basis and crimes that really affect people and crimes that can destroy ones' happiness and crimes that cost this country many billions of pounds have been relegated to the term "anti-social behaviour.
I remember when crimes were just that - crimes.
Now in the sanitised world view of Prosser et al they do not qualify for crimes. They change the name of the word crimes so that we might sleep a little safer in our beds.
And what is Camerons answer to all these crimes?
More bloody windfarms.
I despair. What a complete chump the man is. - Thanks Barry, in fact the figure 857,5 billion is that which I read in one of the news-articles I mentioned, but I found it hard to contemplate. Thanks for conferming it.
Yesterday I found in the Sunday Mirror this small article, which I thought of printing here, in adverted commers, meaning it's textual.
"Tories: We'd axe school rebuilding"
Plans to rebuild schools across the country face the axe under David Cameron's £4.5 billion move to slash education spending.
The drastic cost-cutting was revealed by his schools spokesman Nick Gibb who admitted any building plans that had not reached "financial close" by the election "won't be guaranteed" if the Conservatives win.
It means building projects in 58 different areas are now under threat. Schools Secretary Ed Balls said: 'A Tory axe now hangs over hundreds of new schools across the country. It's time for David Cameron to come clean to teachers, parents and young people and reveal which new schools would be cancelled if the Tories win." - Hello Philip. You're right about windfarms in as much as the standard model wind-turbine has long blades which are fragile, and with high winds must be turned off to prevent them breaking, where-as in many areas where these turbines are situated, the average wind is too low and too inconstant to supply any real value for money considering the costs (and ugly sight) of these enormous things. I believe there should be a different model wind-turbine, that takes high winds, and is placed in distant, very windy areas, uninhabited of-course, and which are not prone to breaking.
Something for research, only, the Tories want to axe education spending. And yet, research into wind turbines can even cost only tens of thousands of pounds, on riduced-scale models, it doesn't have to cost billions. So peoplel would still be able to decide if it is worthwhile passing from a prototype to proper production.
But it is a fact that present wind-turbines are almost useless for the reasons explained above. - Barry,What do you think of this one.Poll done today by Responci. 2010 UK Election,data,number of votes was 2650.
Who will you vote in the 2010 election.
Labour=19%
Conservative =31%
Liberal Democrats-4%
UK Independence =35%
Green =1%
Plaid Cymra=0%
others =9%
Well Barry looks like I am going back to work in May. - Vic, can you please confirm that, if it mirrors the nationwide tendancy, you certainly made my day. Please confirm it and tell me that it's true!
- Please!
- alexander
do not hold your breath, could be one of vic's wind ups.
i cannot trace this company anywhere. - Total nonsense Victor....
- Sorry Barry but it is true this is the webb.
www.respondi-panel.com/election.phplic.
So I am at this time packing my over night bag.
I said it before I do not lie.It is not a wind up I have downloaded it so if you can not fined it,I will get some one to put it on the blog. - Vic - this is not a scientific poll and has as much veracity as another so called poll that shows the BNP ahead on 43% that I saw the other day. As I said it is complete nonsense.
- you have to laugh though barry.
the internet(social networking) sites are full of geeks that have polls for everything.
they usually have the cheek to publish percentage results when just a dozen or so people have voted on an issue. - 2600 is not just a Dozen is it,anyway I have told you and we move on,Thank you for your post,s on it.
- Barryw
forgive me for taking over your blog for a few posts.
VIC
In the UNLIKELY event of your becoming MP for Dover and Deal
What are first 10 things you would do/change locally???? - Keith I have been around a very long time and you will have to do a lot better than that my old mate.
As you well know a MP can not change anything locally or other ways,but he can try but in the end it is down to council when it is locally,so change the wording to what ten things would I like to see or try to change and I will talk about them,but good try mate but it did not work. Thank you. Vic M - VIC
Whatever way you want to word it;
What `10 things would you want to see changed, or wot do youy think you could do for Dover/Deal? - That is better Keith it is geting late now and as you said we are on Barry blog and I have no wish to upset him so please put it on my UKIP page or we wait to get the OK from Barry himself and then it can go ahead.I know you are trying very hard for me to slip up because you are a red,if that is the case let me tell you it will not happen this time round. Thank you again on you posting.
- VIC
Not waiting for you to slip up
just interestying on your view point.
no idea where the UKIP page is
- vic is right here.
this is barry's blog, usually reserved for barry to start an issue, then we all nit pick it. - Where are you intent on going overnight, Vic? Please don't leave us now, but keep up with the campaign. We don't have to agree on everything, but with e.u. agenda parties any hope is lost from the start! Don't be discouraged!
- Ukip page is under Ukip, Keith!
- Hello Barry. You're right about that trio and e.u. chipping in. They want to wait to the elections are over before imposing massive spending cuts, increasing taxes and axing hundreds of thousands of jobs. Anyone can see that!
- Alexander. Thank you so much for that, I am not going anywhere at this time,but might be going back to work in London in MAY
- i get the hint vic, working in london in may!!
i hope you find downing street to your liking. - Howard, I have worked in Downing steet before, but with overalls on.
Barry may I just add this so you and others can look at it to www.ukipsoutheastkent.co.uk you can see and read about me on that. Thank you so much. - Can someone please tell me what kind of warped world does David Cameron really inhabit? I've read some of his policies and they make no sense. I'm a traditional Conservative voter but really I think the man is fast losing the plot.
I despair. I really thought that we might see the last of this awful, useless labour administration but it appears that the boy wonder might actually pull of one of the weirdest political stories of the modern age - ie. He will miss an open goal.
If he does expect books by the hundred examining the events where future historians will attempt to explain what went wrong.
Perhaps Oxford will offer a degree course on "How Cameron lost the election 2010".
It's really quite depressing really. - Philip, at the General Election, vote for Britain, not for the e.u., but obvously, the choice is yours!
- Barry, these speeches about growth in 2014, they're humbug, they're the equivalent of saying people should vote for four more years of disaster and then things will get better.
The reality is, I think, Labour doesn't want to announce great spending cuts and job-axing until after the elections, leaving it to the Tories to promise all these things instead, so that people don't vote Tories. But my view is the same, unless the stolen sectors of industry that the e.u. masterminded off to Poland and Asia are re-established in Britain, for the home market and for export, we can forget any growth at all! - I had to laugh out very loud listening to St. Vincent of Cable proposing minimum pricing for alcohol on the radio earlier today. This much feted fool who actually believes that he will become chancellor in the event of a hung Parliament is so thick that he fails to realise that under EU law minimum pricing is illegal.
What a complete clot. Mind you Camerons lot seem to blissfully unaware of this fact as well.
Hey ho. Another day another goof. - Barry, have you ever thought what would happen if 90 percent of people who smoke and drink gave up smoking and drinking, and 90 percent of car-drivers decided to travel by bus and train? The whole economy of Britain, as well as those of Europe, the USA and of many more countries, would collapse in a day!
But soemhow, I think the e.u. parliament would still be proposing itself as almighty. If they were almighty, why don't they say: deficit go!, and deficit will go! But I worked out that if we say at the coming General Election: e.u. go!, then they must go and be gone! - Barry! new news!
The e.u. leaders are planning to take over complete control of all economies of countries subject to e.u. (27). Apparently to bail out Greece. - Correction. They plan to hand over complete control to a Belgian bloke in Brussels.
- What's happened? people going silent lately!
- Alexander - then it would be one more step to getting us out, but I think you will find that this is more about the Eurozone countries. David Cameron as PM will need to stand up against such encroachments on the UK and I am sure he will.
- Alexander.we are not silent,but this is Barrys blog so as I am UKIP it would not be fair if I keep posting on it.why do you not came a member of the Dover Forum and then you can not only see all the post,s but say what you think about them and I have one on it for UKIP.Thank you.
- looks like the opinion polls are being to settle.
in tomorrows papers, the news of the world gives the blues a 7% lead in an icm poll, an increase of 1% on last week.
the times has the blues 5% up(2% down on last week) in a yougov poll.
the baby boost for DC seems to have the same effect as on TB in years past, always makes the politiciam seem human for a few minutes.
i saw an interesting interview with the top honcho of a company called "comres", i think blue barry mentioned them some time back.
he has his ear close to the ground and was of the opinion that the red party activists saw the possibility of victory, whilst the red mp's have given up the ghost. - Iam just looking at Dover and it is still all to play for,I think the Blues at this time are behind with reds and UKIP neck to neck.Over to you Barry ,your Candidate is not going down well with the voters of Dover,I do not know about Deal.
Going around this week they are saying
(Who is he where does he come from)?
And I must say he is also not a good talker when in the Public eye,I am looking forward to all the public meetings this time round.But after all said and done he is a nice person but I would not vote for him. - vic
i think you will find that chas has cemented his position more in deal and the rural areas of the constituency over a long period.
i do not know his qualities as a public speaker but gwyn is not renowned for that skill, but has won 3 elections in a row. - Vic,
Do you live on another planet not just across the road from me.
Howard is correct Charlie is well known in the rurals and Deal.
Today I went to Canterbury on the 89 bus .It goes via Whitfield,Eythorne ,Elvington ,Nonnington,Snowdown ,and Aylesham .
I cannot see UKIP going down in some of those areas .
Charlie goes down very well on the door step .
Do you think people in Nonnington know who you are ?
Charlie goes to lots of events around the district .We Conservative Councillors make sure that he is seen .
A lot of Conservatives out and about River today . - SUE
Thankfully I'm out of all that, there were some funny moments though which i'm sure canvassers from all parties could speak about.
But at times in years gone by iv been canvassing and chatted to other party canversers, including Barryw and many other Tories, but also more recently, VIC, S Dimmock()remember him?) C P;recious, plus many more
Im going to leave names out but let me tell you of a couple of stories to show how outdated some people can be
NUMBER ONE
Many years ago going to St Martins polling station for my usual stint of taking numbers, my relief arrived, no matter who the other parties telling persons are I speak to them.
I'm quite a chatty chappy, and introduced the other parties to my relief, he took me to one side and said
"i don't want nowt to do with them, they destroy my life all year round why would i want to talk to them"
He then moved his chair far away from them
I understand where he's coming from, but being civil costs nothing.
NUMBER TWO
I was chatting with paulw and the labour group meeting was about to begin, I went in to the group meeting about 5 mins late, one member said, "you know why hes late don't yoy? hes been talking to that paul watkins"
I had to ask the person if she was aware of Mr Watkins and did he have a desease that i could catch that i didnt know about?
I made it clear I will talk to anyone from any political or non political background
Stupid person - Sue, We will get there,I have not seen the blues but we will meet up when it counts at the meetings.
- Im not a lover of these election meetings .Get the usual troublemakers .usually the candidate with the loudest voice appears to win the day .
Its the gentle ,hard work over the years that pays off
If a meeting is held in Mill Hill or Aylesham Gwyn will be the flavour ,if Alkham or River Charlie will be the one Capel strong Tory .
See my thread on the members page .
Carry on with Labour and work and effort will be taxed to the hilt .
- Well Sue if hard work wins the Election you should be standing for the blues and I will be the next MP for Dover And Deal.
- it's not just about hard work vic, achievement is much more important.
- Howard I did say IF .
- SUE
As you continue to slag off the labour party it's wrong for me to sit back.
IN the interest of fairness should the tories win an outright majority(very unlikely) then public spending will be slashed in the first months.
So or those calls for all those services called for on here, dont vote tory, threy have made it clear there first move is to SLASH public spending.
So the scandal on MP's expenses not high on there agenda
ability to control the banks behaviour and cut the millions being paid to directors chief execs who are making big losses in private banks/industries not on the tory top list.
so lets no get thinking everything in the garden will be rosey under an un likely tory govt, if the consedrvatives do achieve govt, its the likes of you and me that will be the losers. - Who ever gets in Keith there will still be hard times ahead .Its the way the present government have handled the economy that has put us so much into debt .
They did not save for a rainy day .This country if it continues as it has done over the past few years will see us in debt for years to come ... - The problem seems to be that the tories do not have a clear vision of where to take the Country 'cept for building more windmills and making us an economic basket case. Camerons wifes' Father is set to make alot of money from windfarms along with other toffs in the tory high command so let's not kid ourselves they are the party of lining their own pockets.
Labour have managed to ruin every single aspect of life in the Country but haven't finished there, passing an anti-slavery bill to boot. I mean it's beyond a joke.
As for the liberals well a wasted vote if ever there was one.
Tories - the nasty party, labour - the inept party and the liberals- the pointless party. - that awful poster and the doubtless others that follow could well backfire on the blues.
demonising the opposing party did not work last time, i would have thought that lessons would have been learned.
apparently not. - Dont attack the opposition just talk about your own policies
Good to see you Howard I nearly knocked you flat .I can be very formidable . - We all like to dismiss negative campaigning but it does work and part of an oppositions job is to point out and communicate the failings of the Government as well as have and present their own policies.
Look at it this way, an opposition's policies are (or should) designed to deal with the needs of the day and the policies of the current Government frame and inform that debate, providing context.
A simple illustration is on economic policy. How on earth can an opposition's economic policy be communicated without relating it to the situation we currently have? The level of National Debt, how we got to this position and the deficit, that is increasing that debt day in and day out, are central to any policy to address the problem. - barry
i should have added "personalising", as if gordon brown was running a government alone.
sadly i think the reds will use similar tactics by showing up david cameron as lord snooty.
bit of an insult to the electorate. - Howard, again you have to face the fact that to an unprecedented degree Brown is personally responsible as he was Chancellor when the economic damage was done and as PM has excerted a high degree of influence over Darling's Treasury.
In addition it is well known that again, as Chancellor he was the 'road block to reform' in respect of other isssues. So again he has a high degree of responsibility elsewhere as well.
The difference between a personalised campaign featuring Brown is a massive contrast between one from Labour attacking Cameron for what? being born to a wealthy family and being sent by them to Eton. - barry
going to eton opens doors for the rest of the pupils life.
any old etonian would admit to that.
i do not blame them for using their network, much the same as the rest of us keeping contact with old cellmates.
sadly the intelligence of the public is being insulted, seems to happen every 4 or 5 years. - Personally I think our Country is still realing under the aftermaths of the Blair Quake, the worse nightmare that ever struck Britain in recorded history. I belive gov. is slowly waking up, and realising that the e.u. is destined to be gone from our shores sooner or later.
- I agree with you Alexander - one day the EU will be no-more than a nightmare. Our eventual exit is inevitable.
- interesting take on the debate, didn't watch it myself, so will assume that barry is giving an unbiased account.
looking at the description of vince cable reminds me of what paulb said on another thread today.
everything nowadays is geared to marketing and presentation, cable is media friendly, darling and osbourne are not.
the blues cannot complain about it, because they use cameron as a soundbite whizzkid with the potential to be a photogenic and saleable commodity. - Like me you mean Howard .Good at sound bites and photogenic .
- very true susan, central office will promote you as a blonde bombshell for the upcoming election.
no mention will be made of your 6 mile walks each morning to collect stagnant water to drag back barefoot to pour on your out of date corn flakes.
if only the likes of mr smooth cameron had the advantages of your upbringing. - Many a true word spoken in jest Howard .When I was Seven my family moved to a house with no running water .We had to walk a quarter of a mile for two buckets of water each day .I think I was ten when a tap was provided cold water only .
Mum never wasted any water The washing up water was used to wash the floors .A small bowl to wash your necessaries each day and a bath once a week a tin one ,I think on those days the water from a water butt was used .
I joke not .We did not have electricity oil lamps and candles .
Times were hard but we managed .Mother worked in the fields and did cleaning .At eleven I helped my Dad on his milkround .
Im no toff .
Welfare state or not it did me no harm and I appreciate what I have now.More than can be said for the generations born after the war No not the Boer war Sid - In the end there is no point whatsoever voting. There is no discernable difference between any of the three mainstream parties. I suggest a long walk followed by a hearty meal and then a good drink among friends. Any time left should be spent watching the television until the usual results round up in the late evening where you can sit down and laugh and laugh at those stupid enough to have bothered to vote and believe they have actually made a difference.
- People like you make me sick .Long before your time people fought to get the vote .Some of us have worked hard to make a difference
It would be so easy to sit back and let the world go by .
Some of us aspire to make a difference .If thats your only comment then go and watch the TV and let us who truly care get on with the job
Its because of people like you that we are in this situation today .
Im glad you have money for a hearty meal and a drink . - Sue,I am in full agreement with you on this one ,in some parts of the world as we know they die just trying to get to vote.
Philip.You are way out of order with your post. If you do not vote you have no right to say how or who runs the U.K.It is you who is the stupid one. - strong views on this one.
philip, there are about 20 or 30 parties standing, not sure how many in our constituency yet.
there must be one that holds the majority of your views?
your vote may make no difference but it shows that you have an opinion on something. - "your vote may make no difference but it shows that you have an opinion on something".
........Precisely.
There will not be 20 or 30 parties standing locally there will be the usual suspects and frankly they are not worth anything.
I'm expected to turn up and vote for these clowns?
Ok let's see the options shall we?
Conservatives - highjacked by environmentalists. No clear and sensible policies anymore.
Labour - need I say more?
Liberals - the pointless party.
Greens - swivelly eyes looneys intent on bringing us back to the dark ages.
UKIP - single issue dipping their toes into wider policy issues recently.
And that's it folks. Remember voting is not sacrosant. During the great war nobody was fighting to protect the vote as is the usual nonsense touted by voting zealots but were fighting to repell invaders. If I refuse to vote that is my right. These people are not Gods you know but merely mortal. They do a job and end up doing it very badly. If you don't believe me look back over the past 13 years to see where we are now as a country. - Perhaps you need to do some broader reading Phil. You seem to be obsessed with Cameron's support for 'green' issues, but there is a lot more going on than that. As a climate change sceptic myself I am not convinced by that part of the programme, but at least it is balanced by some common sense in supporting nuclear energy, something the nuttier green extremists detest.
- Yes Barry I am slightly obsessed with Camerons support for green issues this is I'm even more obsessed with the fact that you, me and everybody will be paying thousands of pounds more for our energy in the not to distant future. Tax cuts? Pah! Trifling stuff compared to the mess Cameron will lead this country to.
I am obsessed with the fact that a supposedly intelligent leader and his front bench have been brainwashed by tree huggers.
Much like if the Tory party had been infiltrated by communists wouldn't you feel slighly peeved? Be honest.
Camerons' policies will cost this country dear and hit the poorest hardest and not a whimper from the backbenchers unless they have been whipped into silence rather like the way Major discouraged talk of immigration just before he lost to Blair.
Nope I have many different opinions of a broad spectrum of Tory policies it just so happens that this is the issue which will lead this country to economic ruin.
While the rest of the developing world is doing just that - developing - this bloke wants us all to wear sandals, hold hands and gaze wistfully at spinning eyesores (if it happens to be windy).
I could talk about other policies but they pale into insignificance when compared to this madness. The sooner this bloke is removed the better and we might get ourselves a proper leader.
That way I will go back to my old ways and actually vote for them again which I hasten to add I have done at every election since I was old enough to do so. - interesting to hear that david camerons' policies will hit the poorest.
when i speak to lifelong blue supporters they moan that the middle classes will be hit hardest.
our candidate has said that the less well off should be the first to be helped when they form a government.
incidentally philip, who would your choice be for leader? - Philip, how and the extent of the implementation of any such policies will determine the economic impact. It need not be the problem that you envisage and there may be some economic gains to be made from the new technollogy. You are far too pessimistic, I say this as an avowed sceptic.
- Hello all! Barry, reading your theme, it occured to me, in regards to public (State) spending, and spending cuts, that no-one ever seems to mention how much Britain spends each year to finance alien economies in eastern Europe. I read on the Daily Express Blog, of which I am a member and read many comments, that it's tens of billions of pounds a year more than Britain gets back from e.u. spending! Isn't this the e.u. green-hair women in Brussels enslaving British people and making us work for lazy unemployed Poles in Poland?
- It must end!
- i agree 100% with issue raised by barry here.
paperwork and forms are a national obsession, doing a good job is not enough.
risk assessments are another complete waste of time, surely everyone looks around themselves and decides what is dangerous using common sense.
the health and safety executive have built themselves an empire.
let's face it, you can go into anyones home or office and see a drawer sticking out a bit or an electrical cable that you could trip over.
surely as adults we try to avoid them. - HOWARD
Just a small point on your health and safety bits,
Whilst I would agree we all have a duty of care under the health and safety at work act 1974 section 2.2 lol
or in the home
but sadly a number of building sites you pass every day will work unsafely, so whilst a duty of responsiblity is there, it does need the reminder, also risk assessments can be overdone, but many people have been able to point out the unsafe working practices through a risk assessment so they can also be a good thing.
- quite right keith, i forgot for a moment about the building sites.
sadly things have not improved that much, about a month ago i walked past the new development being completed in the folkestone road.
not a hard hat or boot in sight, baseball caps and trainers were being worn by the 4 workers that i saw. - without trying to get to deep into this, Im aware a long time ago inb heavy winds a man at Dover western docks was sent up on to the roof in heavy winds, those of you that remember the western docks rail station, will recall there were poor safety nets in the roof.
Instead of standing up to the manager, the person went up onto the roof, he fell through the roof onto a concrete platform, the nets he fell thru bounced off them.
He now in a wheelchair
although the man through the union got him an adapted house and £100,000 compensation.
that doesnt get him out of the wheelchair but at least makes his life more comfatable.
This shows the need for trade unions but more that managers wil put employees in positions of danger, thus your post on building sites.
In todays climate companies and employees will cut corners, not realising at the time the problems they can get into.
Only by seeing these things for ones self do you realise the importance of health and safety, and employers.eployees not being put at risk - i see that the yougov poll tomorrow shows a 10 point blue lead.
barry will be wetting himself over that. - The tide has turned, exactly what I said months ago. Labour had its high water mark a week ago. What did I say about their best time being 25th March for an election. All downhill now for Labour.
- I promise won't gloat when the hung parlianm,ent happens
most likely outcome
ask hestletine - Barry In Dover anything can and will happen just wait and see on the night,and we will be there to see it.
- looking at the hague piece, nothing very radical there, in fact the bit about the european prosecutor i rather like.
it is high time that offenders were stopped avoiding justice by moving around europe.
new action against QMV??
what action would that be?
nothing new about the euro. - I must admit I've always had a soft spot for Mandelson. I think it's called a swamp.
- i have never had much time for the chap, but i have to admit that seeing him back on the frontline again, he comes across as a political heavyweight.
his statements are clear and authoratitive and is clearly streets ahead of the other reds in comunication skills. - He is also sleezy and deceitful, one of the very worse and thats saying something.
- I must agree Howard. Unfortunately He's on the wrong side. He is indeed extremely skillful in his profession. Although he isn't well liked in terms of his public image there is nobody to touch him in terms of his political agility and ability to perform behind and in front of camera.
- barry
i bet you wish he was on your side!!!
sleazy and deceitful??
i would imagine he would like that compliment. - see that the iCM poll in the grauniad tomorrow shows the reds only 4 points behind the blues.
may well be a rogue one, but i suspect that things will start to be volatile over the next 4 and a half weeks.
issues will come to the fore, should be fun. - Mind you it has to be said that when you see how labour have destoyed the education system in the UK Mandelson isn't so clever after all. Who, in their right mind would stand up and defend their tinkerings putting children in charge of education policy? No, thinking about it, I would put Mandelson down as a political pygmy.
- 12.07. Brown @ St Pancras catching HST heading to the South East. Dover?
Must rush home and lock up family silver just in case. - Hmmm. 14.30 Looks like Brown's first stop on the trail is Rochester (well known for its Dickens Festival).
Now what was it Micawber said?
'Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen six, result happiness. Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery. The blossom is blighted, the leaf is withered, the god of day goes down upon the dreary scene, and, in short, you are for ever floored. As I am! ' - Good afternoon Barry and evryone!
In fact, Barry, the recession has not ended, and even if what officially is called above zero growth were reached, it has nothing to do with recession ending. With the enormous deficit for the current budget, and the overall debits, and the dismal economic situation so many British people are in, recession doesn't end by simply stating that economic output is above zero.
I fully agree that the Tories' electoral campaign is more liable to be grasped by experts rather than most people, who probably find it hard to descern what it would bring about to Britain's benefit.
- I am included to agree with you Alexander. The economy remains truly in the mire but figures show we are 'technically' out of recession though the Q1 figures may not be so rosy and whatever Q1 figures look like a second dip recession is very likely indeed. The economy is in a no-win situation in the short-term, with the debt and deficit levels, boosted to try to buy a temporary win and claim we are out of it. There remains difficult times ahead and the longer it is left before the Government faces up to the consequences of irresponsible borrowing the worse the long term impact.
- I promise on May 7th on here not to gloat when as i predicted some 9 months ago a hung parlianment,
2 polls showing labour on way back
one giving tories just a 4% lead
another just 2% lead
all to play for, and I hope tories use OSBORNE more and more
he's the one that will lose the tories the small chance of winning
I hope they push him more and more to the front line - Keith - you are out of date with your polls. There have been a lot of them very regularly and the YouGov 2% you quoted is now at 10% to match most other of the latest pollsters. The 4% was an 'outer' when compared to 5 other that appeared others the weekend.
George Osborne certainly put Darling in his place over the death tax in the debate. Your lot are on the wrong track targetting GO but then that is being done out of fear. - i often wonder how polling companies make their money.
fair enough at the moment they will be run off of their feet with tv companies and newspapers demanding their services.
when their are council elections and euro elections they are busy, but to a lesser degree.
what do they do the rest of the time to keep their staff employed? - Howard - they work in marketing for commercial concerns. They use elections to demonstrate their abilities and accuracy (so they hope). There is not much money in elections for them apparently but it provides them with great advertising.
YouGov - most accurate with London mayor
ICM - most accurate with 2005 election
Both won a lot of kudos with those results and a lot of business. - thanks for info barry.
incidentally, icm most accurate with the 2005 election!! - indeed they were
- Dear Barry,
Are you seriously suggesting that a man who once belonged to the Bullington club,renowned for its upper class claptrap and G and T's
all of a sudden develops a passion for caring for those less wealthy than him and his friends, A man who cycles (alledgedly) from his home ) to his throne in westminster all of a sudden has a passionate desire to help the homeless, the unemployed, the school leavers who start out on there working lives with no hope of a job.
I do not know what age you are Barry but let me remind you I remember a certain Mrs Thatcher and her speech of "Harmony" on the steps of Downing Street and it is not to difficult to make comparisons with the utterances coming forth from the mouth of David Cameron and his motley crew of ex bankers. I believe at the last count his side kick George Osbourne was worth a cool £4.000.000 goodness knows what he is worth now after all this banking shenanigans., lets face it you cant afford to take a holiday on a russian billionaires yacht unless you can afford there prices for a round of drinks, something I most definately cant afford and something I am even less likely to afford if Cameron and his crew get in. - Let us at least on this blog keep the discussion above the level of ignorant biggoted class war drivel such as Jimmy Long has come up with.
- barry i cant see jimmy longs post being biggoted,by your responce you are not only biggoted but blinckerd as well.plase get out in the real world and look at what is really happining.
- I agree with Barry .If this election is going to be a class war staged by biggots then heaven help us .
What is wrong with people going to a Public School.I have mixed with people from all kinds of backgrounds .What a good education does it gives a person that edge to take on responsibility and manage .well.
- A polynomial trendline is a curved line that is used when data fluctuates. It is useful, for example, for analyzing gains and losses over a large data set. The order of the polynomial can be determined by the number of fluctuations in the data or by how many bends (hills and valleys) appear in the curve. An Order 2 polynomial trendline generally has only one hill or valley. Order 3 generally has one or two hills or valleys. Order 4 generally has up to three.
I trust that clarifies the position. - Most enlightening Marek!
- shall we offer a prize for the first correct spelling of bigot?
- Perhaps we could add also a prize for the best use of punctuation and capital letters, Howard!!
Some people take a bit more trouble than others to spell and punctuate properly but typos and mistakes can still happen to all of us. - Barry! I received a pamphlet from the Conservative Party today on the street. I agree with all that Charlie has written, only, there are two national topics that I find are missing: the topic concerning the e.u. being expelled from Britain (I mean as a system, nought to do with xenophobia) and an end to mass immigration. As I know from the Daily Express Blog, many people in Britain are in favour of the e.u. offices abroad leaving our midst and minding their own business, and many people in Britain are in favour of ending mass immigration. I think that the Conservatives still have some time to become more apparent to these two topics, befor the Elections, as they are both popular themes!
I agree with you, there's no place for class warfare here in the Elections.
- no offence meant barry, just that is very rare for 3 people in a row to spell the same word wrong.
- Understood Howard....
Alexander - I take your point and I am sure that both the issues of immigration and the EU will arise during the campaign. Leaflets are less effective if you tackle too many issues at once in a scattergin effect, fit too much in and people are less likely to read them. - Oh well another reason not to vote for any of the three largest parties come this election. The digital economy bill.
Oh these fools, these utter fools.
Vote UKIP this election. I shall be doing so for the first time ever. As I have said before I really wanted to vote Tory but to do so would be giving approval to the Blairist tendency in the Convervative party led by Cameron and his goons. - ..........mind you good on the libs for trying to block key aspects of the bill. I never thought I'd ever say that about them.
- bit of an improvement now philip, just over a week ago you were saying that people were stupid to vote.
have you seen the light on the road to damascus? - Less of a road to Damascus moment, Howard, more road to Rio. This would have been the first time for me not to have voted but old habits die hard and self examination reveals that after all I'm just as stupid as everyone else who turns up to scrawl their cross next to one of the names listed.
- barry
i was waiting for that character assassination of nick clegg, he has started the yellow campaign so well making the big two look very out of touch.
we shall have to wait and see how he goes from here.
philip
i have never failed to vote either, and do not know who i will vote for this time.
the main thing is that we do sign our name on the ballot slip for someone, whether a party or individual.
only then do we have the right to moan about the government.
blue barry here has torn his own hair out strand by strand since 1997 in frustration. - Howard - not character assassination, a clearly defined explanation of how Clegg failed the test. You cannot deny the substance of what was in my posting, its what happened.
- Philip
Rio was flooded yesterday...not a good sign!!!The road to Damascus looks pretty good in comparison. - Marek I was refering to those hilarious Bing Crosby and Bob Hope road movies. Point well made though considering that climate change was supposed to leave Brazil dry for the next few centuries. Something lost on those who voted for the climate change act. The fools.
- Barry,Both Pauls girls on G.M.TV. this morning ,and they said as first time voters they can not make up their minds which way to vote,I have helped them my saying"Vote for UKIP is avote for the UK.
- Barry! That was an eccelent piece of work you did there on your posting about immigration and vacant work going almost entirely to the immigrants! If the Tories get this one as an important part of their policy during the coming month, and also credibly mean that they will change the situation radically, they have a good chance of being part of a new government, even within a coalition, such as with the UKIP.
In fact, it's really unfair that young British people leaving school, who CAN ONLY be without work experience, and people, say in their fifties, who are not as young as they once were, are disgarded in favour of experienced 25-45 year old Poles and co. It's really against the whole comstitution of human society.
It's not fair. Citizens should have the right in their own Country to receive training to start work and special attention when beginning to work, because obviously they are not experienced when they start. I thinl that Poles barging in, because they KNOW we are consigned to signing on, should be marched back out again, via Eastern Docks, back to Poland, to the garden of Poland, to dig their own (very fertile) garden and work in their own factories, including those factories which they ransacked from our shores! - Civilian national service. It just gets worse. Of course We won't hear any more about that one and Mr. Caine can go back to his pile having done his five minutes. So far so bland. Nothing of any real substance with politicians on all three (mainstream) sides giving no real commitments, no yes or no answers to straight questions and photo opportunities that appear to be taken straight from Brasseye.
I still don't know where the Tory party stand and what they stand for. They have no clear vision thing and that's quite important I'm told. I've had more fun watching the kettle boil dry.
This is supposed to be one of the most important elections for many years but it just seems to be a repeat of the last one.
I spoke to one poor young man canvassing on my doorstep the other day, poor fellow. He seemed crestfallen when I explained that the Tories were a lost cause. Still these are hard knocks times and the sooner people recognise that the better I suppose.
Judas Priest this will turn out to be the longest four weeks I've ever encountered and not in a good way.
Oh crumbs hang on the greenies haven't announced their manifesto yet. It's going to make it seem like a year now. - Philip.How right you are all both sides are doing in fighting with each other and none of us have seen a full manifesto yet ,but UKIP lead the way in this, we have a very full manifesto called Empowring the people on the cover "Straight talking."
It is in print or you can down load it on the UKIP Webb site,I have also done some of it on my page in the members on this forum,under UKIP it is not just about the EU but a very full manifesto on the UK.
On a letter in my door today we have Mr Elphicke of the Conservatives saying why you should vote for the blues and part of that letter goes on about Dovers MP and his expenses, and how honest he would be if he gets in,Well he must not read the papers because the blues MPs were as bad if not more over the expenses. It is so easy to say I am honest siting on a fence. I am The UKIP Candidate for Dover and Deal and was hoping like last time a fair fight leading up to the Election I fine the reds are doing this, but the blues are not that will cost them more votes in the end.
" - Vic by quoting from a Conservative leaflet and not believing that Charlie will be honest in his expenses you are also playing the fighting game .
You are costantly coming on the forum with your comments .Neither Gwyn or Charlie are using the forum .
They prefer to get out amongst the people .
I have not seen a Tory leaflet which has false information .I never deliver leaflets if the facts are untrue .
I think PW told you thats politics get used to it . - Sue read my post again you have not got it right Thank You.
- not such good news for the blues tonight.
an ICM poll in the "news of the world" tomorrow shows that the swing in the labour marginals is not enough at present for the blues to form a majority.
another poll out tomorrow(yougov) shows the blues up one the reds up 3 and the yellows taking a hit.
all to play for, things are very volatile at present.
for example, i thought the yellows had a big day today, they hit a chord with the public, while the blues marriage tax plans did not look convincing.
all very quiet on the red front. - I wish Philip (below) was a friend of mine. It would be lovely to spend some time exploring his planet.
- Peter, unfortunately you might find the weather rather cold on my planet. Speak to the mods and apply for a visa like everybody else. We can't be seen to show favouratism you know especially during an election year.
- barry
that bit about only police and emergency workers entering your home without permission is how it is now.
everybody else has to be let in by the householder.
also
the cancer thing, the blues will not commit to a time scale or purchasing up to date drugs.
the reds are right on this one. - barry
that bit about only police and emergency workers entering your home without permission is how it is now.
everybody else has to be let in by the householder.
also
the cancer thing, the blues will not commit to a time scale or purchasing up to date drugs.
the reds are right on this one. - Sorry Howard a bailiff can enter your home providing he has a warrant. He is empowered to enter should he find an open door or window and does not require the householders permission.
- Not so Howard - NICE has disallowed drugs that will help prolong someone's life who is suffering from cancer. the Conservative will allow these drugs.
Also I suggest that you find out the facts about who can now enter your home without a warrant. This policy has come about because of Labour's new regulations and laws that extend the rights for people to do this. What we have now is fast approaching the sort of powers an authoritarian state has. - got me on that one alan, i had forgotten about the open window bit.
barry
tell me about the new laws, i have not heard of them. - Yes please elaborate Barry as I too would like to know of these new laws. I thought the 1994 Act gave most of the sweeping powers that are in practise today but clearly you know of more. Now let me see who was in power in 1994.
- barry
i have to agree that i thought that legal aid was a recourse for the poorer members of our society.
sadly legal aid is a cash cow for the legal profession. - It is the duty of the Crown to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the defendants are guilty as charged. It would be a little unjust if a defendant had to pay to prove that he/she is innocent, it could cost them every penny they possess.
Should the MPs be found guilty I am sure the judge will make some order as to costs. Cameron is simply playing on emotion and virtually condemning these men before they have been tried by a jury. - But it wouldn't cost the defendants a penny if they were found to be innocent. Costs would have to be paid by the prosecution. I agree with Howard legal aid is supposed to be a recourse for the poorest members of society.
These jokers have loads of money stashed away and will continue to make money in the future by working as non executive directors on various companies who can use their "expertise" or should I say insider knowledge in order that those companies can gain some sort of advantage over their competitors.
Elliot Morely will be, I suspect, will be one of the first to be snapped up by some eco con-pany sorry company who stand to make many millions from his insider knowledge.
Just think the next time you see that windmill standing static on a hot summers day producing nothing but an eyesore it's people like him you can blame.
The strange thing is that it's an odd sight to see that there are still some folk willing to vote for more of the same by voting for the labour party. Could this be described as the Stockhausen syndrome writ large? Or is it just those who refuse to vote for anyone but labour because their Great great Grandfather did and to do so would mean death and pestilance for future generations of their family for to do so would be a sin? - Gordon Brown said himself that there were a "surprisingly high number" of laws allowing officials to enter homes in 2007. He promised a new "liberty test" deal with it and even asked Lord West to review the matter. Like so much this Government has done it was a sham review that has not reported 3 years later.
The matter was exposed in a report, the web address is here. You will have to copy and paste it with an extra w in front as this cannot take URLs. ww.bigbrotherwatch.org.uk/BargingIn.pdf
Read that, it is quite horrifying what can now be done. - Good afternoon each and Barry,
I shall skip "all everything" political for the moment, if I may.
Legal Aid,
It was reported on the London TV news last night that Southwark is the ONLY court where the new rules on aid-availability do not apply.
For myself, I would allow the claim of these defendents that they should be dealt with by Parliament.
The new Parliament, that is.
[I am glad to be back and hope all things are going swimmingly for all.--ISP probs :(] - I've been listening to the Conservative party manifesto on the radio. My God they deserve to lose.
- ...Pledge
No. 1
A promise of further future warfare between the people and their local council, with the blame for all failures to be borne by the 'voters'.
No. 2
Public sector co-ops??!
I thought mose servises had been out-soursed long ago. It seems that the habit of turkeys voting for Xmas must begin at the bottom. These workers will have to sack themselves to be able to afford the cost of those left in work. No?
No 3
More daily hoo-rays for house price inflation. Gordon's old trick.
No. 4
Jobs for the unemployed council worker?
No. 5
"misbehaving"
Has someone been naughty?
No. 6
"curb" As in..."No parking on the..."?
Where, oh where is the 'drive'?
This whole Election thing is getting more childish by the day. - Tom - you said 'This whole Election thing is getting more childish by the day." I agree so why not make an intelligent critique that can be discussed instead of such silly childish comments in that post.
At heart, judging from previous posts you have made, you are just an old fashioned Big State socialist though.
The big question though, given your clearly stated anti-politician stance, is why you make jibes at the Party who's manifesto is all about reducing the powers and influence of those very politicians that we all distrust to look after our affairs. - Hello Tom! You should try reading the Sunday Mail last edition, they'll tell you there what they think of politicians presently in Parliament, and not only in the Gov.
- Barry, Hello! Thanks for your reply on my post; obviously you have a general view on the whole financial aspect of our public spending, and I do agree with your version. But I really wanted to ask you, in all that what I wrote, don't you think there is something in it? I mean, if the trade deficit is constantly there and is rated in billions a month, don't you think this has, on the long term, a profoundly negative effect on the budget and the whole national economy, as money just keeps leaving and leaving our economy, and at some point there isn't enough there! And that this must account for a part of the national debit!
- Yes is the answer Alexander. But we have to remember that trade in tangables are one thing, but that is not all. Inward tourism is an export earner as is the financial sector. It is very worrying that Labour's regulatory errors could damage the reputation of The City and damage these massive overseas earners. British citizens going abroad to work to bring or send back money to the UK is another. I know someone who has just returned from the Middle East and who managed to earn a considerable amount to set himself up in life. These too are export earning for the UK economy.
it works both ways of course but these 'invisible earnings' are a substantial benefit to the UK and in the past have more than made up for a deficit in manufactured and other 'visible' income.
Sadly a number of the measure taken over the last 13 years has damaged both manufacturing and the invisible income. We have actually seen manufactiring decline over the last 13 years whereby it actually grew over the previous 18 years (something that surprises Conservative detrators, but was true). - Many thanks, Barry! Well I would ask another question, not that I want to put you with the back to the wall here, but because it's not personal, buty a widespread topic, what would you suggest concerning the many civil servants, and , to an extent, workers from private sectors too, who fear the axe striking if the Tories get in? Wouldn't my view be acceptable that, instead of axing jobs in these sectors, we re-introduced many small factories nationwide to manufacture cloth and clothes and cd players and computers and the like, and soap and that? I mean even Pears soap comes from India now, even though it boasts a 200 year tradition in Britain! Would this course be able to give work to at least several hundred thousand British citizens, and get some resources back in the Treasury, also considering the money that would be saved owing to less benefits being paid out as a consequence, as well as the added income-tax from these new jobs?
- Alexander - first of all cuts to public spending are unavoidable whoever is elected. There is a variance in the honesty level of the Parties, but the fact is that cuts will happen and they will be deeper than anyone is willing to admit. This is a direct result of having to service the massive levels of debt which would get a lot worse (cuts deeper) if the UK lost its AAA rating. Hence the need to start now.
Politicians and Governments need to stand aside from commercial decisions as invariably they get these things wrong. It is inapproriate to use taxpayers money to set up factories and businesses as you suggest. Besides, the money is not there. Such decision are for investors and businesses, if there is a gap in the market then they will spot it.
The best approach with what little money might be available is to make it easier for businesses to invest and expand. Some such policies need not cost anything, you just have to free them from red tape, there is a mass of that these days. Improve and simplify planning process being just one example. One good idea from the Conservatives is to exempt the first 10 employees taken on by a new business from NI. It costs little and would help take people off the dole. This makes business payroll easier and saves the business money that could go into expansion and product development, taking more people off the dole, maybe many former public employees.
- I would like to thank the Dover Chamber of Commerce today for turning out and talking to Lord Pearson
- Who was there from the Chamber, Vic as a matter of interest?
- Barry you are chairman and do not know who it was,well I can say this now, you did meet up with my press officer in Deal and he was at that time telling the press that the Dover Chamber was going to meet up with lord Pearson, and you then told him with the press there, the Chamber of Commerce will not meet Lord Pearson! I rest my case, but they both talked to LordPearson And myself and yes they put their points over very well to him and myself and please thank them for coming when you find out who they were..
- Errrr Vic I have no idea what you are talking about. Chamber Board members may well have been there in a personal capacity, as is their right, not an official capacity. There is no reason for me to know anything about who they coose to meet, anymore than they should know who I am meeting!
I have never met your press officer to the best of my knowledge. I did have a phone call from someone from UKIP. But I am not aware that this was anything to do with the Chamber. I explained my Party allegance and suggested he should vote Conservative to elect a Eurosceptic instead of supporting a no-hope campaign.
To pass on your thanks I would need to know who they were. - Just decided which way to vote. What a shame the Spectator will articulate things that the main parties seem to be unable to?
www.spectator.co.uk/politics/all/5896233/the-case-for-cameron.thtml - Thank you Bob for that web address. I too like The Spectator but had missed that article. It does indeed make a clear and very compelling case but, sadly, most poeple will not have the patience and interest to read and take in such a long and thought provoking article, however interesting.
This one sentence stood out for me: ""The worst mistake in politics — to judge a programme by its aims, not its outcomes — is hardwired into the Labour psyche. """
This does indeed say it all to me abour Labour. They may well often have laudable aims but they simply expect to be judged by those alone and not the outcomes. Its the outcomes that are most important and is where their failures lay. I do not doubt, for instance, that every Labour Government hates unemplyment and are determined to fight and reduce it, yet despite that well intentioned aim every single period of Labour Government has ended in more unemployment than when it started. Aims good, outcome dreadful.... - Barry I think you need to see a Dr with lose of memory but I like you so I hope you get over it soon.
- Plus!
Only last month, Mr Brown was boasting about the 2.5 million new jobs ‘created’ since Labour took office. ‘Imported’ would have been a better word. Unpublished official figures, obtained by The Spectator, show that 92 per cent of the new jobs since 1997 are accounted for by immigration. At no point under Labour have fewer than five million been on out-of-work benefits. This is a tragedy.
Tell a Labour activist that just under six million are today on out-of-work benefits or that immigrants make up 13 per cent of the national workforce, and you will be met with genuine disbelief. - My memory is perfectly good thank you Vic.
- Well after watching the big debate tonight I must say I think the winner was UKIP. This televisual extravaganza was primarily aimed not at the voter but to those who consider that democracy consists of grown men spouting soundbites and saying nothing of any substance. A poor performance by all three in my humble opinion.
Cleggy behaving like a pushy student debater not giving the full and hidden agenda behind his very odd policies.
Brown, gruff and relying on the fact that he is Prime minister and is an important person but lacking any charisma whatsoever.
Cameron failing to manage to come up with the goods on opening night following weeks of long dress rehersals.
No doubt those who do not follow current events will put Cleggy as winner but in a beauty contest it is always style that wins over substance. - I note with interest the CCTV camera (bottom left) watching the poster. Is this the ultimate in the Big Brother state or merely a landline to Labour Party H.Q. to find out what the b++++rds are up to next??
- Barry! Thanks for your post there. Now let me point out, I'm glad you read my posting on Council Economy Boards, as your reply makes understand, but if you look at it carefully, you'll find that at least half of what you just wrote is actually what I am suggesting! A Court of Economy, with constitutional prerogative, would prevent preceisely politiacians and govs. itnterfering unduelly in the established economic productive functions and messing things up, once a proper production system is established.
I think you should accept one of my maxims, that we don't need to agree on everything, but really, you could recognise that at least some points I make do make sense, it can't be all out of the blue! Also, what I meant with factories run by Council Boards, is not a communist taking over of the economy, but reintroduction of productive sectors, such as textiles, electronics and many simple products (take Pears soap as an example, such a disgrace: made in India!) as these have already been closed down and sent abroad, so, as the owners of these companies did this, it's only fair if Council Economy Boards opened new factories to get this production back, as the former owners of such production sites have already upped and gone to sit there in the Bahamas counting the money coming in from India and China (and Po...)
However, I did mention that small businesses should be protected, as these are essential in market economy, protected from going bust or being devoured by larger companies.
I think you could actually give me some points there, as it is not the total opposite of what you have been writing! I also have recognised that some Tory points can be interesting, even if I don't agree on everything. Otherwise, Barry, no Parliament could prosper, if different views of parties or or currents were not somehow taken into consideration and, when possible or feasible, combined. This is in fact the meaning of politics, to have a result that stems from "many views" which somehow find a final agreement! - Alexander - I am enjoying our discussion, its quite refreshing. What would very much disagree with is in any Government interference in the market or getting involved the way you suggest. Small/medium businesses should not be 'protected' but need to be free to fail or to prosper, because that is what the market is about. Mergers and aquisitions are also part of that rich pattern and it would be damaging to hinder that process. No doubt when I want to retire I will want to 'park' my clients somewhere and ensure that they keep on being looked after properly. We have a world economy and we must play fully in that, try to stop overseas companies taking over UK ones and you will stop innovation, increase company collapses and increase unemployment. Also that will then work against UK companies when they want to buy out overseas ones, yes that does happen, indeed in the 80's it was mostly that way around.
Leave businesses alone is the message, get off their backs and let them do their job of producing profits and tax revenues.
Protectionism has been tried before and it failed dismally in the 70's, a route to disaster. As for Councils running factories, what a disaster that would be, Councils cannot sell beer at a profit let alone run a factory. - Alright, Barry, I disagree, but that was part of the offer, we don't have to agree on everything! Still, many thanks!
- Seeing that the liberals seems to be doing well in the polls and might well win the poll with a majority of 596 what do they intend to do about the volcano which is causing so much disruption? Firstly I think they should rename it because it's a name which I for one am unable to pronounce. Something has to be done.
- Philip, in this case, let me assure you that not even 12 star halo bearers in Brussels can do anything about the vulcano, let alone the libs!
- With regards to the above " comment from the Independent " that
"the New Tories are so virulently Eurosceptic or Europhobic".
Well, I nearly fell off my chair laughing! Who writes this utter
drivel? The Conservatives are no more anti-EU than Labour or
the lib-dems, they just attempt to give that impression in order to
mop up a few votes and to pacify their true Eurosceptic members
of which there are quite a number.
I suppose this is the same Eurosceptic party that that didn`t dare
mention the EU once in the recent televised event. ( I wonder why?) The same party that won`t give us an "in or out" referendum and the same party that descibe one of their true eurosceptic MEP`s ( Dan Hannan ) as a "maverick" and "loose
canon"
If the Conservatives are anti -EU then my names Ken Clarke!
However, this is just the sort of rubbish that I would expect to read in the Independent so no surprises there then.
I can also state categorically that if you want ANY change in our
dealings with the EU then your ONLY option is to vote UKIP.
No matter what fancy Dave says, the EU will never be altered to
our benefit from within. Our only true option is to get out, it`s as
simple as that and like it or not, UKIP is the only party that will do it. - that is my favourite newspaper you are deriding john.
i don't remember reading that article, but i would wholeheartedly agree with you that the blues leading us out of the european monolith is about as likely as west ham winning the champions league. - Sorry about my crib over the "Independent" Howard. No offence meant! In fact, in fairness and having now read the article, that wasn`t too bad a report . ( I`ve seen worse! )
However, further to my previous comments re Dan Hannan, another Conservative Eurosceptic MEP is Roger Helmer and they`ve both fallen foul of Tory HQ in the past because of their outspoken and truthful comments on the EU and wind farms etc, ( ie., the Global Warming charade ) I just don`t understand why they don`t join UKIP as their opinions are virtually identical to that of my party.
I guess perhaps at the moment they don`t see it as a good career move?
Both of these guys must find themselves in a strange position, especially when their leader`s favourite call to his MPs` is " Don`t keep banging on about Europe "!
Oh well, perhaps after 6th May and UKIP finally have representation in Westminster perhaps some of Dave`s boys will have the courage to cross the floor and join us. ( or Vic! ) - thanks for that john, i was getting a bit concerned, the "indie" usually does it's homework before publishing anything.
the last line of your second paragraph is very accurate, it is mostly about "career moves" nowadays for the politicians.
not many with good old fashioned passion and belief in issues. - Well thank you all for your post,s today.
I was going to have a day off but I went out leafleting this morning,I went out at about 0730hrs so I could get into the flats around Dover and I must say from the back of London rd to the Gateway it was great to see how nice they are and alot of the flates had their own imput just outside the door and in the hall ways, and the floors are so clean you see your face in them well done to you all. - Howard - the Indie did do its homework. I have been telling you the same thing for a long time.
Some of you need to face the facts of life. UKIP will not make any breakthrough in this election and never will, for one simple reason; they do not have a broad enough spread of appeal. The UKIP policy positions are those that, superficially, would appeal to traditional right wing Tories like me. But there are not enough of us to get the support needed to win an election and most of us are not biting. Elections are won by Parties that manage to attract a broad swathe of support and that means compromises and not being single issue obsessives.
In Dover Vic, you will come fourth if you are lucky. The battle here is really between Conservative and Labour.
Howard - the Indie did do its homework. I have been telling you the same thing for a long time.
In the Conservative Party the Heathite pro-EU wing of ‘grandees’ like Heseltine and Howe are yesterday’s generation. Ken Clarke is their last remaining standard bearer and he has lost 4 leadership elections as a result of his views on the EU. In anything that Indie underplays just how unpopular the EU is in the Conservative Party.
It is time some of you caught up to today’s realities and stop living in the past, The Conservative Party has moved on.
If the right wing Eurosceptic vote is split enough to allow in a Labour/LibDem Government then there will be a price to pay. The stronger the LibDems are in that Government the more likely their demands will include membership of the Euro and the more locked in to the EU we will be.
Britain’s greater integration into the EU will be the price for voting UKIP.
- Well BARRY it looks like you are geting upset the way things are turning out in Dover and i am going to do alot better then you think,and i am still looking at the winning post with 3weeks to go.
- Vic - I understand that you need to keep your spirits up in the slog of an election but you will come, at best, fourth. That is certain.
- Good morning each and Barry.
Chins up all. The good people of East Kent can, I am sure, be relied upon to sort the wheat from the chaff, the Blue from the true, the Red from the herd etc.
What a jolly election this is.
So much talk of 'change' yet so much of the rhetoric stays the same. This makes the choosing easier for the electorate.
Vote Red or Blue and nothing will change. The mass of the public will suffer on and the blame, the responsibility and the onus will still be on us the people. The practiced politicos shall plunder on and blunder on. Shall serve first their pay-masters then one another and serve the rest of us right should we fall for these same old tricks as before.
Better to vote for the future of ones community and let Parliament content itself with the hand we the people Deal it. We should not be voting to please any Party. - Barry, as you would no doubt expect, I disagree with your comments regarding that the "EU is unpopular in the Conservative Party" Whilst it is most certainly unpopular with a lot of its membership, I don`t see that reflected in any genuine way whatsoever from those in charge of that party and, let`s face it, they`ve had plenty of time and opportunity to express that position if they really were "Eurosceptic".
Yes, we`ve had the "soundbites" etc., from William Hague and what he`ll do for us in Europe if the Conservatives are elected. However, most of it doesn`t stand up to scrutiny. A good example of this is his promise that "Any future treaty which hands over further areas of power to the EU would be subject to a referendum" . Sounds good, but what he fails to mention of course is that now we`re signed up to the Lisbon Treaty it`s highly unlikely that there will be any further treaties as the Lisbon Treaty is self-amending. This, of course, is why the EU was so desperate to finalise the Lisbon Treaty so that they could virtually do whatever they wanted without needing the agreement of its members, and this, in itself, is a good example of how the EU operates. I could go on and on about Hague`s misconceptions and false promises but I must get the grass cut today!
With regards to your comments that UKIP are " single issue obsessives " that again is incorrect. However, I agree that we may be perceived to be a single issue party, but that is purely down to the media reporting us as such because we are, and have been for a long time, the only party that tells it as it is regarding the EU. If people cared to look we have a full and serious manifesto that, given the air time that the other parties get, would go down really well with the electorate.
Furthermore, if UKIP were a single issue party, (which we`re not!),
losing control of our own country to a bunch of unelected and unaccountable foreign bureaucrats seems like a pretty big issue to me! Or do you not consider our loss of control over Fishing, farming, Environment, Immigration, law and business regulation, employment, trade, postal services, waste disposal, energy, health & safety to name but a few to be particularly important?
As I`ve probably stated before somewhere, the EU will NEVER allow you to change it from within. Yes, they will appease some of the member states now and again by appearing to allow "concessions" but in reality these are not usually worth the paper that they`re written on and come at a price anyway.
When will the penny finally drop? The EU will give us NOTHING! Our only option has to be complete withdrawal from its clutches and the Conservative party have not given me the slightest indication that they would aim to do this, even in the long run.
David Cameron has only himself to blame if he fails to win with a majority. Don`t blame people that will vote UKIP. If, as you reckon, that "the Conservative party has moved on" then why doesn`t Dave come clean on our membership of the EU and actually say that he`ll take us out. If he had the guts to do that he`d already be home and dry in this election and most of our members would probably be out on the streets supporting Charlie.
Finally, as far as the EU is concerned, it really doesn`t matter who wins the election, as if we`re in it, we`re controlled by it and no amount of amendments from within will alter our situation whatsoever.
If Charlie fails to win the seat in Dover it won`t be UKIP`s fault, it`ll be down to the Conservative leadership. Simple as that! - Hi again Barry, just when you thought I`d gone away!
Another thought springs to mind regarding your new found supposed Anti-EU Conservative party. As you may be aware, only recently, UKIP decided to put country before Party and offered not to stand against any true eurosceptic Conservative candidate in order that we would not split the vote for the benefit of the Tories.
Although about half-a-dozen Tory candidates agreed and signed up to the "better off out campaign" and the UKIP guys stood down, this gesture was not appreciated at all by Dave. He actually warned his candidates not to partake of this genuine offer
which seems a bit strange for our new found Eurosceptic.
If Dave & Co., as you suggest, are now the new Anti-EU party of choice, do you not think that he would have welcomed this obvious chance to grasp this offer with both hands in order to secure the seats that he so desparately needs? - John, you sound very obsessed with the EU to me.
I maintain that you are totally out of touch with just how detested the EU is in the Conservative Party.
I note that you make no reply to what I have said over the dangers of a Lab/LibDem pact with greater integration and membership of the Euro being the price.
If you dont want to get rid of £Sterling and want a Government that will renegotiate our relationship with the EU then there is only one answer, vote Conservative. It may not be full withdrawal but half the cake is better than none and the alternative is simply horrifying. - Barry, yes, you`re quite correct I am obsessed with the EU.
The reason for this is that over the years I`ve witnessed and bothered to investigate and find out about the waste, fraud and corruption within the EU. which I don`t suppose many people have bothered to do.
I also know very well how the crooked system works and how difficult it is to alter it from within. Furthermore, I don`t like what I see, what it has done and is still doing to our country.
If, as you maintain, that "I`m totally out of touch with just how detested the EU is in the Conservative party" then why haven`t I seen any such evidence from Cameron & Co., to back this up?
Unless of course you mean their spin words, and that`s exactly what they are, of "We will bring powers back from Brussels". Very easy to say of course and if you want to believe it then that`s your prerogative. If we ever reclaim any so called "powers" they will only be ones that they`re happy to give us, probably at a cost somewhere else, and yet we`ll still be paying this political club £45m a day just to belong and told what to do.
If you are really worried about the Lib Dem/Lab. pact regarding further intergration ( although there`s not much further to go to be honest ) then surely you and your Tory mates should be shouting from the rooftops that you want Cameron to offer us an in or out referendum and the problem wouldn`t exist, would it!
You know and I know that if he did that he would be the next Prime Minister. But he won`t will he...........WHY?
You can`t have it both ways. If you expect UKIP voters to switch
allegencies then we have to a cast iron guarantee of a referendum
and not just cheap talk.
I`m sorry Barry, I can see exactly what you`re saying but I guess that we`ll never agree on this particular issue, especially as "renegotiate our relationship with the EU" sounds good but in practice won`t make much difference.
I note also, that you have not commented on several points that I raised previously. - john
i have read your posts with interest, i am assuming that you are an ex blue, still with them if it were not for the european experiment.
it would seem that your manifesto is much the same as a wish list that barry posted on here in the recent past.
clearly votes that you gain would be mostly disenchanted blues which could lead to the reds or yellows winning extra seats.
in fact non marginal seats at present could be made marginal by the ukip vote.
how would you feel if they failed to gain power after the election? - Hi Howard,
Yes, you`re right. I am an ex blue and that party left me, not the other way round! You`re also correct in your assumption that if the EU question didn`t exist then I`d be lining up with Barry.
To be honest, I think we`ll pick up votes from the Reds and the Blues. In exactly what proportion is difficult to say. Although I have met many disgruntled Labour supporters that can`t bring themselves to vote Tory, certainly won`t vote for Labour again and so will vote UKIP. So Barry`s perceived damage to the Cons. by UKIP, at the end of the day, may not be as bad as he fears.
However, If UKIP did in fact cause marginal seats to be lost by the Cons. ( if that`s what you`re actually saying ) then so be it. Don`t blame UKIP, blame the Tory leadership. They`ve known all along that the ball is in their court to give us something for our support and they haven`t done so. That`s their problem, not ours.
I will admit though, that most of our supporters would not want to see a lib-dem/Lab victory and for some that is a dilemma. Sometimes though, the people of this country get what they deserve and often things have to get even worse before they get better. But that`s a risk we have to take and if the Conservative members don`t like the outcome then they will at least know what to do the next time round!
l - I think that Tory party higher ups just don't get it. They do not realise how frustrated traditional Conservative voters feel about how the party leadership has highjacked their beloved party to the point that if it means that the libs or labour get back in then so be it. It's do or die!
Yes We are cutting off our collective noses to spite our collective faces but feeling is that strong.
Barry, whenever someone expresses a point of view (such as the eu or environmental policy for example) you infer that they are obsessed with these issues as if they matter not.
Well it's these two issues which highlight the madness that has befallen the opposition.
If they can get things wrong on these two issues then how can Conservative supporters trust them on other issues?
It's too late now for Cameron to change tack and I suspect labour will take this particular constituency notwithstanding how hated the labour party are.
They were warned a long time ago but these warnings fell on deaf ears.
They deserve all they get. - Conservative voters are simply not as stupid as you infer Philip.
- I witnessed a strange phenomenon yesterday. What was it ?? I hear you ask all agog... It was a smiling chuckling Gordon Browne on the Andrew Marr Show. Well I never! The questions were all the usual ones but Gordon was chuckling wholeheartedly while answering, almost as if someone had told him he had a 20 point lead in the polls.
However searching underneath the straightforward, its the stupendous rise of Nick Clegg that has him smiling. Gordon knows that Nick Clegg will scupper the Tory vote. The floating voters are moving Clegg's way and the Conservatives needed those floaters to make the impact, the inroads required. If the Conservatives cant capture the floaters they wont win, the floaters are all moving Cleggs way while Gordon Browne has stabilised. Worrying times for the Conservatives therefore. A huge rethink needed on their strategy.
The pressure was on David Cameron in the first televised debate, more on him than anyone else, as he is the one that needs to gain to win. So having failed in the first one, having been out dazzled by young Clegg, the pressure will now be enormous on him. Huge pressure like never before. Will his nerve hold. - Yes it will Paul .Some people work better under pressure
- Barry, you surprise me!
You gave me some lecture about free market and no protectionism. I tried to be decent, but I just found out that in my Council economy board thesis, I hadn't mentioned anything about Councillors producing and selling beer!
I had given specific reference to textile and electronics factories, (and to Pears soap). Now, Barry, I have just recovered from the weekend, gathered some Regiments together, and now how's about this: you say "down with protectionism" and that my thesis was all wrong because of this. Now Barry, do you know that our clothes come almost entirely from China, which is a communist country, where the State runs all the firms that sell to us using our British technology (as if we were third-world and they had invented it all)? That the Chinese State protects production and makes sure that everything that has to do with trade is based on communist and protectionist policy? - More coming soon, Barry!
- Also almost all our electronics are imported in the same way, even though they are British inventions. How did Communism manage to take over, Barry, and what has this protectionism of the Chinese Communist Party that exports to us all these products after getting the technology from us, got to do with the free market you've been trying to explain to me? Council economy boards were supposed to protect us from Communist domination, Barry, because evidently some party has been imposing a communist system over us in Britain. This communist labour party, for example!
- Barry, you can not even win on your own blog let alone a Gen Election.
- Barry! Furthermore, my Council economy board thesis was supposed to defend our Country from the e.u. commissars taking British and western European tax-paid money, calling it "e.u. money" and paying company owners and company boards to close their factories down and re-open them in eastern Europe, forcing us and the western Europeans to import the products that we used to produce, after the machinery which we invented and produced (production line) was sent over to the East! The owners of factories who have done this have cashed in the millions that the e.u. communist commissars took off the people, thrown the workers out, and re-opened in the East.
What has this to do with free market and free economy, Barry!
You should read some of Vic's postings, Vic is right when he notes that lorries come to Britain loaded, and often go back empty. I have also noted this, as I keep my eyes open too!
- Barry! The e.u. Politburo is a communist institution! It's based on protectionism of eastern European companies and forced trade, and forced redundancy in the West. Furthermore, PaulB said we can write on the Forum as much as we feel fit, and as there is a general election on, I'd invite you to re-read my posting on Council Economy Boards, and also Vic's postings, and the UKIP programme, which, although I am not in the UKIP nor have any agreement with this Party to work for them, is one of the only Parties that has the will and spirit to get our County out of the mess the Communists have got us into!
- Alexander -
China had to adopt capitalism in order to build its economy. Hong Kong remains a capitalist enclave, though ruled by Communist China. Then dont forget the special economic zones where free enterprise is allowed. These are not State owned businesses and are traded on the stock markets. I myself have an ISA fund in which 25% is invested in Chinese companies, many on the mainland and not Taiwan.
12 to 13 years ago I met a Chinese businessman from mainland China who ran a couple of factories there. He was a great admirer of Mrs T, much to the surprise of his British wife (an old fashioned extreme leftie!). Lui and I got on very well indeed much to his wife's disgust, he was disgusted himself that she would not vote Conservative!
Vic:
You express very funny ideas, do you understand the discussion that Alexander and I are having?
- I mean Country, although I wrote County. Even then, I am of Kent, of-course!
- Alex - you write as if I support the EU, I detest that organisation as much as anyone and want out of it as soon as possible. But I am not willing to do anything that may risk a Labour Government remaining in office, particularly aligned with the LibDem EU fanatics.
- Barry! try explaining all this to the millions of British people flung out of their jobs because of Communist preferentialism of factory owners who crossed over!
As for Vic, he does, only, he would write "laid redundant" where I write "flung out! - Barry, the fact that you do not support the e.u. doesn't mean that my Council Economy Board thesis was based on Councilors producing beer and selling it, which I didn't write!
Millions of British people have lost their work, and millions of young British people cannot get work, because of the communist e.u. commissars and their Politburo in Brusels who practise protectionism and forced trade, after pillaging our Economy AND making us pay for it. If you believe that the Tories should make a pact with the communist e.u. Politburo and keep silent about it, so that Labour does not get back in again, then know that people like Vic are nre not making such a pact, and therefore are by far preferable, being sincere, and clear. - Your extremism and language does you and the case you are making no credit Alexander. You are making yourself look as if you are on the looney fringe and perhaps should sit back and think about how you are coming accross.
- Barry, I already explained that Vic understands the topic very well, and expresses himself in one way, where-as I express very much the same, or at least agreeable views, in an extreme way. I know this, which is why I did not ask any party to enlist me, as I would be too extreme in my expression. I am aware of this, and still, I take great consideration in expressing my views in a fair way, and understandable way, without being offensive. It's only that the wording is sometimes undiplomatic, such as "throwing people out of their jobs" rather than "laying redundant".
Or "sitting there counting the money" rather than "receiving an e.u. sum to transfer a factory to eastern Europe"
Still, as long as I can prove that what I write is not humbug, I feel satisfied. - Barry you say "Conservative voters are simply not as stupid as you infer Philip." I think you're putting your head in the sand. The grass roots Tories really do feel very unhappy with the way the Conservative party have turned for the worse. When, unfortunately, labour still hold the balance of power post election night this is precisely the debate party leadership and those in CCHQ will be having and will result in an implosion within the party. Such is the problem with the party adopting labour-lite policies.
As I said earlier, they were warned.
Committed Tories (proper Tories in my mind) feel so strongly that they are prepared to commit themselves to, if necessary, losing the election even if it means labour manage to win. They are not stupid but merely true to their principles hence the disillusionment up and down the Country.
Who wants to elect a hybrid of liberal and labour ideas? Only a mug would be willing to sell themselves so cheaply.
- Philip. As a 'committed proper Tory' I meet other 'committed proper Tories' every day. I met a lot of them out campaigning for Charlie Elphicke on Saturday. Almost all, like me, of the traditionalist Tory wing and as a former Constituency Chairman, former DDC councillor (12 years) and activist for 36 years, I have a much greater knowledge and 'feel' for this than you can possibly have.
You represent a very tiny minority of bull headed individuals who are incapable of seeing the wood from the trees. You would have been among the dinosaurs in 1975 saying the Party would never win under a woman and even later in 1979 during the election, there were many saying exactly the same kind of things then as you are saying now. Things never change. - not under the conservatives barry,this country needs to be pushed forward not backwards.
- Good morning Barry! To come to a pleasent note after the uproar yesterday, I just read in a Liberal leaflet that they - the Liberal Party - consider that house prices in Britain are inflated. This is also what I wrote on my thread Council Economy Boards, so I'm not alone on this one, Barry! What is the Tory view on this subject?
- Alexander - indeed they are/were inflated as a result of the credit bubble caused by Gordon Brown. His changes to regulation combined with his flawed inflation brief to the BoE (ignoring credit conditions) are the cause.
There has been a house price correction and there are fears that this correction is not yet over with the possibility of a further 10-15% fall. I did blog on that months ago, back in January.
House prices are a matter for the markets to determine. - Barry! fears, you say! So you fear that the inflated house prices might go down! Barry, I hope they go down, by 15 percent and another few times 15 percent! They are far to inflated, based on speculation, and one reason why many people go personally bankrupt, and receive home-evictions!
Most people don't receive the salary a parliamentarian receives. - Really Alexander. All those people with high mortgages wont agree with you when they get into negative equity if they are not in it already. A 15% drop would be bad enough but what you are after would be an economic disaster that would affect many ordinary decent people.
- Barry! If a person owns a house, and doesn't have any mortgage on it or debit of any kind, and doesn't intend selling it, it shouldn't bother that person if the house is valued at 200.000 pounds or at five pence!
If a person had a house, and wanted to sell it to buy another elsewhere, and house prices all went down to about five pence a house, sure, the house-owner would get only 5 pence, but so too would the house he or she buys cost about the same figure.
So if houses went down in price by 50 percent, who sells one gets 50 percent less, but would also pay 50 percent less to buy another one elsewhere!
Sometimes you give apocaliptic accounts of economy Barry as to what would happen if...
But it isn't at all undescribable what I wrote, and makes sense.
Many people are evicted from their homes for not being able to pay the morotgage, Barry, and that is a fact! - The UK inflation rate rose sharply to 3.4% in March from 3% the month before, official figures have shown.
The rise in the Consumer Prices Index (CPI) inflation rate was greater than analysts had expected.
Retail Prices Index (RPI) inflation, which includes housing costs, also rose sharply to 4.4% in March from 3.7%.
The CPI inflation rate is the measure targeted by Bank of England interest-rate setters, while RPI is often used as a benchmark in wage negotiations.
Whoever gets in it looks like we could be in for a Summer of Discontent on the wage negotian front. - Alexander. What happens then when someone has a mortgage of £100,000 and the value of their home has fallen to £80,000?
Do you actually know how personal finance works? before you try to argue with me I am a professional fee based financial adviser with over 21 years experience. I have seen such situations in reallife.
You really should sit back and think things through. You keep coming up with half baked comments. There is a great deal more I could expand on with regard to the catastrophe of what a huge fall in house prices means to the economy. I wont bother because you are frankly entering the realms of silliness.
Bob thanks for that. - Apperntly can't use web addresses
www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7OGUAQSYQ4&feature=player_embedded
Notwithstanding.... - Good afternoon each and Barry.
Alexander,
Have you looked into Land Valuation Tax?
P.S.
Where is the work for the financial advisor if house prices can only go up?
As every punter in the betting shop knows...those who speculate to accumulate have no chance of profit UNLESS there are losers. - Thanks for the link Bob, love it.
As for Nadine Dorries, definately a 'bit of all right'......
I recognise a fair few other, Tatchel, Iain Dale, Anne Widdecombe, Lynn Featherstone, Nigel Farage Malcom Tucker, oops.... I mean Alistair Campbell.
Then there is Bucks Fizz themselves.... who else do people recognise? - + the excellent Paul Staines (aka Guido Fawkes) losing his skirt on the Embankment).
- barry
you are right the blues have clearly won the business approval this time, however you forgot to mention the letter to that socialist organ "the daily telegraph" signed by 50 leading economists that stated that the cuts by the blues would severely damage economic recovery.
on your comment about the yellows and reds being on the left, the yellows have produced a much more left wing manifesto since 1997, nothing new there.
i think that the public that study these things would see the blues and reds very similar, nicking policies off of each other at will, whilst the yellows are the radicals. - Howard - it is the LibDems and Labour who are bedfellows with the LDs more left wing than Labour. You need only to look at their policies to see that.
As for those economists, only 50, thats all they managed to get! What about the 360 Labour managed to get together in 1982 to savage Geoffrey Howe's budget which was one of retrenchment. These 360 all ended up with egg all over their faces when Howe's budget, critisised in the same way and Conservative plans are now and at a time of a recession, was the catalyst for 7 years of solid wealth creating growth. - Barry will you end this blog in just over two weeks time when the blues do not get in at Dover?
- Vic - never fear the blog and the Conservatives will continue and have an MP for Dover.
- Quite right Barry .Two more weeks to go yet and lots of work to be done .You often get a blip mid campaign .Vic you are not getting mixed messages .
- Sue all I see is the winning post.
- Well Vic you must be canvassing in another part of the Country .
Can you hand on heart say that you have knocked on all the houses in Dover and Deal and 50% are going to support you .Every road you need 50% and are you going to have tellers in every Polling station????
You will get votes but not enough to win old bean - Good morning each and Barry.
Vic, better 'old bean' than has-been?
What fun there is to be had in this single season when it is the politicians who taste fear and the people get a small taste of their worth as citizens and voters.
There is amusement too in the fightback to the good old days of a two party state. All that guff about progress relying on which is the best foot forward; right or left. When we all know that politics thrives somewhere between the two.
Alas with the absence of the open-letter page I am hearing little of Dover-doings and all matters 'Dunkerque II'. Along with the question of cafes and conveniences and their mutual causations. I trust you are, each and all, managing to shoulder this extra responsibility. I am sure it is so.
Volcano souvenir stalls?
Such could double-up as mementos of A Close Encounter of the Third Kind.
- Hello Barry! Sorry if I sound silly sometimes.
I was wondering what stagflation is, which you mentioned in your article. I know you are an expert economist Barry, which I do not dispute. However, to answer your question, if houses went down 20 percent, as in the example you posed for me to reply to, and someone had a mortgage of 100.000 pounds, the idea would be for the banks, by gov. order, to put down all mortgages by 20 percent! This seems quite clear, and has been part of my economic plans, even though I haven't expressed these publicly in writing in full detail. The banks would not go bankrupt by putting the mortgages down, and furthermore, the banks couldn't say no, as they have just been bailed out by the State (with the People's money, Barry!) only two years ago, after most of them WENT BANKRUPT!!!
The banks owe the People a very lot of money, Barry, for going bankrupt, as well as the money which the savers put in the banks to look after, but which the banks gambled and lost. Does that ring a few bells Barry? I am not quite as silly as some people wpould have me be! - ...Gordon wants the Lib-Dems to save him?
From what?
This sort of attitude is going to put the nails in the coffins of all three big-partys.
Nowhwere are the people spoken of other than to put the 'frighteners' on 'em. - Clegg, Tom, is Brown's best hope for remaining in power. Brown has given up any hope of an overall victory so he needs the Libdems who are natural historic allies. Every survey of LibDem opinion shows they prefer a coalition with Labour.
The Conservatives would be well advised to rule out any deal with the Libdems whatever the outcome. That said I suspect, despite the polls and excitable speculation, it will not be an issue in the end.
- So Barry! You detest the e.u. alien policy of Brussels, as you declare, but do not hesitate to promote a pact with the e.u. in order for Tories to get in power. You would not advise a coalition with the Liberal party, but suspect that in the end the Tories will not rule it out! All bartering, it seems, but what a mess our Country would remain in, and get further into, with so many different policies being presented, no matter how contradictory, in order to be in powwer!
- Allexander - promote a pact with the EU, me - where on earth did you get that from, utter nonsense.
- barry
i think that alexander is referring to your previous post, mentioning the possibility of a pact with the pro eu yellows. - ...If I may.
Fellows, Barry as usual speaks only in terms of a Blue majority. "All talk of inter-party dealing is so much guff", is what I suspect is behind all that Barry says.
P.S.
The Blues are in any case closer to the Reds than the Yellow. - Thanks Howard, but no! I was referring to Barry's repeated statements that he considers dispicable the e.u. system and that he believes Britain will be out of the e.u. before long, but that he further believes that it is not the time to call for a departure from the e.u. as this would take votes from the Tories and favour a Labour re-election!
- Latest news in Dover Express:
The Tories do not rule out Port sell off in Dover! - Nothing new there Alexander. What has been promised is a review of what is being proposed by Labour and the Board plus a public consultation, that's a lot more than Labour have promised.
- Ah well! I thought we had democratically said no, the vast majority of us Dovorians. Goes to show what Democracy means to the Tories then, doesn't it! I signed two different petitions, had a letter published on the Dover Mercury, got a reply from Mr' Elfiske supporting my view, got published on the Daily Express blog defending Dover, wrote a representation to the Secretary of State after the Cinque Ports advised me to and sent me the adress, and received a reply from London informing me that the representation will be passed on for consideration to the Secretary of State.... all this over the past months, and just to hear that, for the Tories, it's all humbug, and that they "will consult the public to see if "we wish to sell of"! So! All fell on deaf ears then. And that's Democracy, is it!
No thanks, Barry! Not for me! - So Labour didn't listen to you either Alexander... no surprise there. you have some very odd ideas about how these things should work.
- public consultation????
they are always good for a laugh.
people in power pretending to listen the people, never fails. - Howard you sound very cynical. Why bother voting at all?
- different issues philip.
not that i have made my mind up on who to vote for.
however attending presentations from the harbour board, the district council, the primary care trust and even the official people at the priory forum, it is enough to make me despair. - Does anyone really believe that the television debates contribute anything towards democracy? Do they merely serve as a convenient, fast food vehicle for those who do not follow politics and make their mind up come election day? Yeah patronising I know but after watching tonights debate and the one last week I learned nothing whatsoever about real policies.
Also is Clegg unhinged? He seems to suffer from the thousand yard stare especially when he talks about climate change. Very odd. - ...Debate?
The Lid-Dems have taken to the high profile side of life as a duck to water. The gaps between the three narrows by the day. Far closer now than when at Westminster, where they are kept more than a sword's lenght apart. If they each had a sword at these 'meetings' they could not be more keen to be scratching each other's back.
Where else could the call for aspiration be answered by so much exasperation? [isn't this language wonderful]
BTW
The safest/surest way to avoid a hung Parliament is to not vote Red or Blue.
(I can't help it. I just have to be helpful where I can.)
- Barry! Let's face it! Democratic referendums don't exist in our Country, nither for local nor for national issues. I've noticed though that the UKIP have the same view as I do, to introduce referendums on majour issues. So I will support them, for this and other issues!
Therefore, without the possibility for referendums on issues, the only way to express local democracy on local issues is by way of petition, writing to news-papers, on forums, and the like.
This we have done in Dover, Barry, and All the local members of ALL political parties in Dover ALL are against Port privatisation, as are the vast majority of Dover's people. Barry, these are not odd views. Also, gov. made the offer for representations to be made. I found out when the Cinque Ports registrar informed me and sent me the form. What is odd about all this, Barry, is not what I have been writing, but that you are unable to accept a democratic view of the majority, and keep harping on with your personal preferences. I, Barry, when I proposed port-tolls, and saw that I was widely contended, accepted the democratic decision, as Howard will also be able to confirm. No, Barry, your views are odd here, because for you, everything that has to do with Democracy (and I tried all these available roads) is odd! - I am local (a Party member) and enthusiastically in favour of Port privatisation Alexander, so you dont speak for me. My problem is only with the how and when and I have grave doubts about Labour's timing and method.
This is an important decision and not one to be made as a result scare stories and the emotions being stirred up against it, and in this I target Charlie as much as Prosser.
This is also not a decision to be made by any kind of referendum either. Like most decisions in a representative democracy it must be made by those elected on a rational basis. Public consultation, yes and the representatives must listen and take note, but at the end of the day they must decide.
I hear so much utter nonsense spoken about port privatisation around which common sense goes out of the window. - In fact Barry, I meant the candidates for Parliament, I realised the error!
- But Barry, that I will vote for Vic you no doubt know, don't you! I won't vote for the Toris! So wait and see if they get in at all, Barry!
- Alexander, let's face it the plural of referendum is referenda. + nither is spelt neither. Doh.
- Hi Mr. Pedant. Obviously I tipped a button too fast and didn't detect the error later when checking, but that happens to me quite often! As for referendum, I dispute that! May-be in Latin, but in honest English: naah!
- Barry! Vic just put a good point over! He notes that the Blues promise the public more say in matters if they get in, but do not recognise the right of referendums. So Barry, as you also state this, how on earth do you propose more public say in matters?
No, I've been noticing for some time that pre-election paint-overs flake awy before the gen. election, that's why we have a campaign, and I can see that Vic is winning it! - Alexander - referenda, yes that is correct, are in fact a commitment in the manifesto for any more power grabs by the EU. Constitutional matters like this are good for referenda.
Other ways power will dispersed include:
Right of recall of MPs provided you get signatures from 5% of the electorate
Locally elected police chiefs
Letting doctors determine clinical priorities and heads more control over their schools without Government targets.
The right for the local electorate to veto excessive increases in Council Tax via a local referendum aligned with an end to capping.
Thats just a few off the top of my head. There are many ways that the public can and will get more involved, not all of it has to be by referenda. It will certainly happen in many aspects of life should the Conservatives get elected.
But, at the end of the day, there are really difficult decisions that need to be made and responsible Government cannot be run like a beauty contest. Difficult unpopular decisionshave to be made by elected representatives. - The plural of tomato may well be tomatoes, and the plural of rotten tomato may well be rotten tomatoes, and before long Barry, this computer screen I am looking at will get a good many of those, if I don't turn it off and make myself a fantastic cup of coffe instead!
I am involved in writing some more pages in my book of Dover and Kent and England and Britain. Did some more research and will later be writing. - Barry,you are right when you say elected representatives, but that is the one thing they never do, once in they do what their party tell them to do not what the public have voted them in for,but they are there as the public elected representative, I have always said if and when I get in I will do just that,I will always come back and aske on any big issues "How would you like me to vote,this can be done, I would have a webb site set up and the public of the Constituency of Dover and DEAL could see how i am doing and also tell me how and what their feeling,s are on any issues,and yes I would take on what they are telling me over what my party is saying,after all they are the ones who voted me in,so they have the last say.
- Vic - you are actually demonstrating an unfitness to be an MP.
Even as a member of DDC I was often faced with having to make unpopular but informed decisions and to take the responsibility for and to answer for those decisions. A responsible elected representative has to be prepared to do that. The right thing to do is often what no-one will want you to do and the next parliament will have a lot of very tough and very unpopular things to do. It comes with the territory. - I do not agree with you Barry
- There you go again Barry your party saying "lets get more of the public working with us and you are saying no,you can not have it both ways, my way the public will be working with me.You are digging a hole again for yourself.
- barry
with all due respect you seem to be in the territory of "big government" here, something that you always blame the present regime for.
vic is saying that he will carry out promises that he makes to the electorate, surely that is what an elected representative is for.
tough decisions sometimes have to be made, but not on promises made.
- In an ideal world yes politicians would like to keep promises .The harsh reality is different .
DTIZ is a prime excample .
Money shortage off ,rules ,governance often stand in the way .Red tape ?/ - No Howard - the simple fact is that politicians will often need to make difficult and unpopular decisions and responsible politicians must be prepared to do so. You cannot be populist all the time and there is a clear difference between true 'localism' giving responibility to people and being populist.
You just cannot and indeed must not do what the most popular thing is all the time.
Any politician who is not preparded to be unpopular, take responsibility and justify his/her decisions is unfit for office. - Good morning each and Barry.
So...We're DOOMED!
The solution is plain. If we are to avoid what you say is the ultimate calamity-A hung Parliament...
The Conservative & Unionist Party must withdraw from the race.
There is nothing like a difficult decision first thing in the morning.
Think of the renewed respect in Dave and the Tories. Which other party has what it takes to save us all? - I take it to mean, Barry, that what you are writing is that the Tories intend to come to power and harshly punish the British People, inflicting ugly decisions that will make them very unpopular. But I saw this already, in fact you will remember no doubt my reference to the axing policies the Tories have in mind.
- Barry, you have your back to the wall now just like your party.But you are doing a good job in helping me thank you keep it up.
- Barry, you seem to be adverse to Democracy; my Dad served 22 years in Britannia's Army for Freedom, not for a George Orwell 1984 state! The e.u. communist system imposes protectionism and destroys free trade, by taking tens of billions of pounds a year from Western countries to pay factory owners to close down and send the machinery over to the East, and to finance these new factories in the East to flood our markets in the West at cheaper prices with that which we once produced, while our people sign on, or re-mortgage their paid-off house out lack of money, and then go bankrupt all the same!
How many home evictions, Barry? How many home evictions?!
Your preechings on free market are totally contradictory, Barry!
And what eastern Europe hasn't taken, has been handed over to the Chinese Communist Party to control, through protectionism and methods that have naught in common with free trade!
Tory, Labour and Liberal parties all stand for the communist destruction of our society, because when the Soviet Union came to an end and the Warsaw pact too, frustrated Baltic agents went over to Brussels to take over, and destroy the West!
- The fact is that you, Vic and Alexander, are being incredably naive in your understanding of Governance.
If you had experience at even a senior DDC level you would see that decisions have to be made on the basis of both limited and competing resources. You are often damned if you do, damned if you dont.
You cannot simply do what people want and, as I say, if you think you can then you demonstrate an unfitness to be an elected representative.
Governance is not about being nice and doing what you think you electorate want. Neither is it about asking them and deciding based on some kind of dubious survey.
It is also about leadership, telling people what must be done and taking the responsibility for necessary but important decisions. If you cant do that then you are wrong for any kind of elected role where there is real responsibility.
This is why we have a system of elected representatives to take both the decisions and to accept the responsibility for those decisions.
Little Parish and Town Councils, however worthy, do nopt proved theb testing ground for this Vic. - Sorry last sentence reads.
Little Parish and Town Councils, however worthy, do not provide the testing ground for this Vic. - Good morning each and Barry.
Elvis?
Where to begin?
Blue Moon? Party? Trying to get to you? A mess of blues? Blue Christmas? Suspicion?
I'm left, youre right, she'd gone? Devil in disguise? Viva Las Vegas? Jailhouse Rock? Rags to Riches?
And then there is we, the electorate;
Return to sender? Suspicious Minds? Youre time hasn't come yet baby? Rip it up? It's now or never? All shook up? One night/ I got stung? From a Jack to a King?
Are you lonesome tonight?
- It is quite extraordinary, despite the Conservatives working hard to convince us otherwise, but many people are thinking positively about the possibility of a hung parliament. Only a few minutes ago going down in the lift of my fairly well heeled seafront block, a group of well connected individuals spoke to me about the election and how they are looking forward to the possibility of a hung parliament. When ordinary people, who may have voted conservatively in the past, are seeing things this way then maybe there is a quiet revolution afoot.
What has brought about this massive change I dont know. A culmination of factors. people dont want any one party ruling the roost any more because they are sick of the tit for tat game, the expenses debacle, and maybe the all round sameness of them all. There are differences but not enough to cause more than the mildest headscratch. - i am getting the same feedback from people as paulb is.
in general they all are sick of the reds, they don't trust the blues and seem to like the idea of no one set of people running the show.
if that is what the people want and the vote confirms it, two parties that form a government will have to listen to each other and reach settlement on policies, rather than ride roughshod over
the electorate. - Barry, may-be we should consider that the Conservative party is not a new-comer to governing, and that people generally know or can easily find out how they governed in the past, and how their opposition has been in Parliament, and how they would govern in the future. What I am tryimg to point out, Barry, is that situations change, and the public debit reality today is not that of thirteen years ago. Also, many sectors of industry which existed 13 years ago, today are no longer there. Also, the mass-immigration policies and equal opportunities for all eastern Europeans to march to England and grab a job were not there 13 years ago.
I don't want to antagonise you, but are you sure that the Tories are experienced for the reality of today?
I am sure that UKIP is, becauser they are realistic, and in fact their economic plans coincide largely with what I personally have been figuring out and writing over the past six months in my Economy work at home. I have given great thought about Economy, Barry, and so too have the UKIP party, and I do believe you are out of touch with your rather antiquated opinions. Also, Democracy with votes on major local and national issues is a theme that will become more and more present in the public opinion, and will one day carry the day. - I think this episode from the Foreign Office as mentioned by BarryW above is rather awful in some ways, but not to be taken deadly seriously really. I think the Pope, or more importantly, the people around the Pope will see it as something done by a juvenile in a department. Foolish of course and clearly perpetrated by someone with too much time on their hands. Yes indeed the contents are crass as stated above but I feel sure there will be no lasting damage as the position has been made clear...ie..it was just a minor having a bad joke.
It may well be offensive though to some Catholics but I think most will see it for what it is..an unfortunate but slight episode. - Alexander - you do need to get a lot of your facts right. Take immigration for example, Eastern European countries joined the EU within the last 13 years and the Labour Government refused to adopt transitional limitations to Eastern European migration when they had a chance, other EU countries did so. You should also note that Labour changed the rules for non-EU immigration in 1997 and in that year there was a massive rise in that. It was not a problem during the Tory years.
- paul
an archbishop or bishop chap in the catholic church yesterday commented that catholics were getting used to being picked on.
what a get out, nobody has a problem with catholics in fact they are seen as victimes nowadays.
people do not like their leaders and the abuse and cover ups going on. - ...OK, I admit it. I have been looking round the site...
Did I hear Glenys say; all that Labour's done is delightful?
And that all the Tory plans are just frightful?
There they posed, grinning gay
(Gordon prefers it that way)
That the children are stuck with the bill
is purely coincidental? - Barry, I have received information that, after Greece, Portugal, Spain and Italy are going to declare bankruptcy. Germany is too crippled to help even Greece. Does that effect in any way a new gov. in Britain?
- Alexander, countries cannt technically go bankrupt as such. Yes their public finances can be under huge strain but a mix of factors can help alleviate the problem not available to us as individuals, but each has a consequences.
They can print money for instance but that is not 'free' and results in a debasing of the currency (inflation)
They can allow their currency to take some of the strain on the exchange markets, that though is not an option for Euro members, (hence the increased problems of the weaker Euro members mentioned)
They can increase taxes and in that way boost income. But that too has a downside, as if overdone, it can compound problems and result in an actual fall of revenue in the medium to long term.
They can and ultimately must cut public spending. The latter is the only real long term solution.
A bail-out by the IMF for instance, carries with it conditions as we found in 1976 when Callaghan went to the IMF. That was the only time in the 20th Century that public spending was actually cut.
If the IMF do bail out Greece and maybe some other countries (I suspect Greece will be the only one to get that bad), then the UK funds 15% of what the IMF lends. Currently that means the UK could be faced with an estimated £600m bail-out bill for Greece. That therefore does have consequences and creates some fiscal problems though on the scale of the total UK fiscal problem £600m is a drop in the water.
One quite possible scenario from the problems of these countries could be a collapse of the Euro. Initially this would have unfortunate knock on consequences, particularly for investors, but I suspect in the long term would not be such a problem and may wel strengthen some of these economies. It would damage our overseas markets in Europe, but I would expect that to be a short-term problem while markets/economies adjust.
- Worth pointing out, to put the potential £600m cost for our share of the IMF bailing out Greece.
We are spending £164bn a year more than we have as tax income.
In other words that £600m is what the UK spending more than it receives in just 1.3 days. - And to think I was lectured by somebody on this blog about the fact that I might not vote?
How about lecturing the candidates to tell the awful truth before We are required to vote?
It strikes Me that although they have some oddballs making up their membership (mind you don't they all especially the liberals) it is only UKIP who is prepared to face up to the inconvenient truth regarding our economy. We are expected to make up our minds on polling day based on a beauty pagent (x3) and lies and spin from the three major parties.
By the way isn't it strange - global warming was the most important issue facing Mankind even more dangerous than terrorism and yet what do We all hear from these clowns? - Broken society, national insurance contributions, nurses running the health service, changing the way We vote etc. etc. et bleeding cetera!
So it seems that climate change isn't an issue after all. HOORAY WE ARE SAVED. MARCH IN THE STREETS, BREAK OUT THE BAND. WE ARE SAFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - There are those who say that it all started going wrong for the Greeks when they overspent money the economy could ill afford on the 2004 Olympic Games.
Thank goodness we will not be doing the same.... - ...The Olympics, Bob?
Yes, yet another of NewLabour's Micawber mind-set.
"I have known him [Micawber] come home to supper with a flood of tears, and a declaration that nothing was now left but a jail; and go to bed making a calculation of the expense of putting bow-windows to the house, "in case anything turned up," which was his favorite expression. "
Sometimes nothing or too much turns up. That's life. - looking at the new tactics the blues are adopting of targeting previously safe labour seats, are they putting less effort into seats they hold?
they have to be very careful, nobody mentions the ukip now but they can seriously hurt the blue vote. - Barry, I got admonished by Sue Nicholas the other day and told to moderate my language! In other circumstances your expression up above could have been admonished! I personally keep strong language for the clowns in Brussels, extraterritorial, which keeps me on safe soil. Don't take this too serious, Barry! Only joking! But still, I think that caning children would be wrong, and as for smacking, I got smacked once with a size ten (childrens size) plimsol by the headmaster, but it really hurt him more, I could see the pain in his face as he reached for the plimsol in his office, and the smack came so light I had to hide the smile.
- Barry, thanks for your reply to yesterday, however, I do not agree that 600 million pounds is a drop in the water, as this money would be leaving the national economy if it went to Greece, and not spent within our economy. Now if you had read properly what I wrote in Council Economy Boards, a sum of money in the national economy is realy worth more than it seems, as "money goes round". But when it leaves the national economy, it doesn't go round any more in ours! So 600.million pounds over-spent in our own economy is one thing, as it still remains in the system and "goes round", but the same figure given to another economy without getting anything in return has a much more devastating effect, as it can't continue to circulate in our national economy. We can't afford it. Furthermore, Greece could never pay it back, because that country always is going bankrupt ever since they entered th e.u.!
- Alexander - the £600m is our share of the IMF bail-out and is tied up with agreements. Remember that the UK had to be bailed out by the IMF back in the late 80's and if we are not careful it could happen again.
- Then how much less sense does it make for us to dish out 600million pounds for Greece, Barry! Britain is bankrupt, with a national debit about twice the annual budget. this is not America!
If the Greeks chose the e.u., then the Greeks must also sort their own financial problem out. I would advise the Greeks to leave the e.u.. How can the e.u. be such a great system, if it's western members are all bankrupt, and some totally bankrupt.
barry, as an economist and Tory supporter, you should realise that if the Tories had opted to expel the e.u. system from our shores as an election promise, you could only be reeping harvest by writing this! labour could only lose. Both you and I could each make labour stand out like a party with senseless policies.
But your hands are somewhat tied, as you don't want to collide with the Conservative Party.
In fact, it makes sense to point out that if the e.u. states, including our Country, are so utterly bankrupt, then the e.u. system can not feasibly be an option for a future government! - Bigot. –noun
a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.
Looks like it's back to being a two horse race then. One down one to go it appears. - Let's hope we tell them one of the agreements to us lending them the £600 million is that they never bring up the subject of the Elgin Marbles again!
- Bob, we should give back the marbles, keep the 600milion!
We can make marbles of our own: Shire Soldier marbles and Sailors of the Trident Fleet marbles! - Good afternoon each and Barry.
Have any here heard the least apology from GB regarding what he DID say?
I have seen the news yet I have heard no such apology. - Barry, your thread on immigration and employment got 1354 views, two more than my thread Once, For Ever, which got 1352.
- Do calm down Alexander.
The £600bn is nothing whatever to do with the EU, it is from the IMF and that is our 15% share of what the IMF is providing.
I resent every penny given to Greece but we are tied in to the IMF arrangement and are obliged to up our share of the IMF bail-out. I pointed out that we have benefitted ourselves in the past from such a bail-out and I am sure the Americans and others who paid that resented it too. - There is one humungous elephant in the polling arena which no party is willing to talk about (amongst many others but such is the level of debate in the UK at the moment). That elephant is big, smelly and will lead to the permanent decline of what manufacturing capabilities still exist in our country. Neither of the three main parties are willing to face up to the fact that in the not too distant future companies home grown and those who invested from overseas will close down plants and factories because of the cost of energy.
This, alongside the massive deficit and other more important issues neglected by the ship of fools, will hit us all like a fast train to London. This is tragic really and will make the day that is fast approaching whereby our credit status is downgraded as a positively halcyon day. - tom
the prime minister referred to a woman he had earlier been speaking with as "a bigot", when he was in his car and assumed that he would not be heard. - For all of the worries about the Greek economy + others in the EuroZone I note that the pound is still falling against the Euro today.
- ...Howard.
He chose to seek to castigate one of his minions, he saught to blame this one and that. He said he was 'sorry IF'.
The shock for me was the bit of the encounter I saw on the Daily Politics show was entirely positive for him and New Labour YET he chose to insult the woman and represent their meeting as a disaster.
Moral cowardice!
That any of this was made public is not the point. - Barry your Blog has got like your leaders very very boring put some life into man.
- Vic you cannot put life in to a party that really does not have life in itself Its dreams of victory at the next election are slowly sinking, torpedoed by a man who was so sure that victory belonged to his party that he persisted in calling for televised debates.
The Tory campaign has floundered, failed to excite or inspire and has been a disaster.
Thank god that hopefully on the 6th May they will lose again. - Alan - I suspect you will be deeply disappointed in your expectation. Labour's campaign is collapsing, urged on by the gaffe today. The LibDems are pretty much flatlining but may now pick up a bit more from Labour. The Conservatives seem to have picked up since DC's superb performance in the past debate and may also gain a bit from the Brown gaffe.
Tomorrow will be DC's chance to deliver a knockout blow to Brown and Cleggy. - i seriously doubt that the gaffe today will affect the election result.
who was it said "a week is a long time in politics"?
he/she could have added " a day is a long time in an election campaign".
i must add that the yellows will be quite satisfied with "flatlining", maybe very happy with it.
i doubt that they ever really expected to be so involved at this stage. - who was it said "a week is a long time in politics"?
It was Harold Wilson. Enough said.
PG. - I think the look on the poor womans face when she was told by a reporter what Gordoom had said in the car said it all really. The look of disbelief and then total disappointment was tangible.
In the eyes of labour politicians she is worthless. A prole. Not worth listening to.
It's how labour politicians see us really. It makes you wonder how the liberals percieve the working classes. - Oh No! I've just read about Cams energy plans once elected to office. Lord We really are in trouble now. To summarise:
£6,400 to every household for energy saving measures, a green investment bank, reform the Climate Change Levy to provide a floor price for carbon and all the rest of the completely barmy ideas he managed to pick up over the past couple of years. All this within one month of taking office.
We are now well and truly............. - Then there is the commitment to nuclear power Philip. Also essential to meet our treaty bligations.
- Barry there is commitment to nuclear power but it's not as simple as that. There is an excellent piece in the Telegraph by Rowena Mason titled "Just don't mention the fuel poor" which gives an insight to the grave situation we all face. Google the title of this piece to read more.
I know I keep banging on about this issue but its significance outweighs most other issues surrounding this election.
- The attitude of Gordon Brown sums it up .I have been in politics for along time and I have seen and heard those kind of remarks many times .
Labour for the under dogs think on Im not going to name and shame but it does happen .
.
- Barry! You are not doing justice to economic strategy, when you harp on about 600 million pounds as being peanuts! As I have pointed out already, after Greece, it will be Portugal, Spain and Italy next on line. So will you be telling us all that, because the e.u. cannot bail out one of it's own members gone bankrupt, namely Greece, the IMF has to do it for them, with Britain contributing with 15 percent (600 millions), and that after this, because three more e.u. countries will be needing a bailing out and the e.u. cannot bail them out, again the IMF will have to intervene, and each time Britain must pay 15 percent: but for much larger bail-outs in the case od Spain and Italy, which have each much larger economies. So how many billions and billions do we hae to pay to all these bankrupt e.u. eonomies, Barry, in the end? When you make these deisions on the blog Barry, about 600.million pounds being peanuts, you are telling us all that we MUST NOT ovte for Tories, because it is clear that they will litterally throw our money out of the window at e.u. bankruptcy in western European countries! Are you actually serious, Barry?
- You are being rather too excitable Alexander. These countries are not bankrupt and we are a long way from meltdown.
What exactly are you really saying then?
That the UK should renege on our commitments to the IMF, pull up the drawbridge and let the devil take the hindmost?
We may be an island but we depend on stable overseas markets. We will not be immune if there were to be a meltdown and if the UK behaved that way such a meltdown would be more likley and, indeed, the UK debt crisis would actually get a lot worse.
You come up with a lot of highly excitable nonsense and if the UK Government behaved the way you seem to think it should the crisis would get a lot worse for the UK. - So, nonsense!
That's what you have to say to it all, then, nonsense! Now are that the sort of explanations the Tory party gives to the voters before the General Election, that any view that challenges them dragging us into total bankruptcy is nonsense!
If the e.u., whose paranoid leaders and artefacts in Brussels have been trying to pass off as "paradise on earth" is going into rapid total bankruptcy, one bankrupt e.u. state being turned down by Germany and the others, and then three more about to knock on Germany's door, and of-course bankrupt Germany can't bail out even Greece, let alone Porotugal, Spain and Italy, then the e.u. calls in the IMF, and consequently Britain, also bankrupt (as Barry has been explaining to us for months on this blog ie that we are bankrupt!) has to contribute 15 percent to the IMF!
But let's face the facts, to "bail out" does not mean that Greece's (and Sapin and Portugal and Italy's) debits will be paid off, but only a very small part of these debits, just enough for these countrie's insane e.u. governments to keep their nose above the water! In fact, Greece's debits are MUCH higher than 4,5 billion pounds, which is the figure that they are asking for (approximately), they are many times more than that. The "bailing out" which the Greek government wants is only to cover a small pat of the total debits sum, and so Greece's substantial debits would remain. The same would apply for the other three mentioned counries, whose combined debits go in the hundreds of billions of pounds.
So, Barry, if Greece got the bailing out of that peak of their total debit which they are looking for, the larger part of Greece's national debitswould still remain, and so, after six months, the Greek government would be back again asking the IMF to pay another 4,5 billion pounds. The other three countries would be doing the same. Each time coming back and asking for more! And more e.u. countries would join in! Barry, you don't explain these things to us, because your party never looks furthe than the day after tomorrow. They do not look and calculate ahead, and hence call my explanations "nonsense".
I hope people who read this Blog realise where the Tory party would lead us, they would be throwing every year billions out of the window to cover up every emergency bail-out each bankrupt e.u. state needs, on the grounds that the e.u. is bankrupt and cannot affort to cover it's own bankruptcy, hence Britain must do it...
Barry, this time, let me tell you, I will refrain from commenting on your Tory Election ampaign concerning ruining our Country completely, I believe the readers on this blog can see the light, it needs no further commenting... - Find out the meaning of bankruptsy Alexander, also I suggest that you do some research into international agreements and economics.
You are ranting away on something that is not party political, the IMF and the debt crisis affecting other countries. We, at least, are not in the Euro so our obligations will be limited to what we are required to contribute to any IMF solution.
You frankly do not know what you are talking about and are speaking from prejudice and not reason. - I would just like to say how sorry I am over two of my posting,s About Mr Elphicke they were both unkind and one was not true,it will not happen again. Thank you Vic MATCHAM,I was being told things and taken in by them,without finding out if they were right or not.
- Barry! I know full well what I am writing about. You are not telling us that the Tory party has no idea how economics function, if what you suggest is Tory policy! To get this straight: Greece has a total national debit much higher than the sum the Greek government is asking for, which is about 4,5 billion pounds, of which you say Britain MUST pay 600.millions.
Barry, that 4,5 billion pounds is just an emergency bail out so that Greece can pay the interests on the debits! After six months they would be back asking for another 4,5 billion pounds to pay the next interest on their state debits. The same would apply for any other bankrupt e.u. country: they would keep coming back and demanding more money to pay the interest on the debits.
You have not been mentioning this, and so, before the Tories get in and start taking our Country's money away and giving it in this fashion to every bankrupt e.u. state whose government comes round the corner, while merily and busily axing hundreds of thousands of British jobs in Britain in the name of penny pinching, right..., before they start tossing British women out on the street through job axing British women and their husbands into misery and carrying out the next spate of brutal house-evictions so as to run after these women in southern Europe who they evidently find more attractive and to whose bankrupt men they evidently want to sacrifice British women and their children, let's just put it this way: WE WON'T VOTE THE TORIES IN! - Alexander, you are talking about Britains international obligations, not Tory policy, please find out what the difference is, take a cold shower and a deep breathe.
- Barry.
I come across many people confused by what is afoot concerning the national debt problems of Greece etc.
I have taken bald advantage of our 'association' and copied your comment below on this subject.
I mean you no harm by this and your name remains above it.
I have prefaced it thus...
I have copied out the explanation below from a Tory I have had the privilege to cross swords with on matters Political since last September. He knows his stuff. Pity he is a Tory, [he will not thank me for that last bit].
Thank you. - No problems Tom.
- Barry! I am talking about the British People's money, and it is clear by your exposition of the facts that a Tory government would sacrifice Britain to an agreement that no law in Heaven says we are forced to stick to! Such agreement we cannot afford to have, and must be cancelled. Our Country is bankrupt and cannot afford to pay billions of pounds to bankrupt e.u. governments who chose the euro! They would never be able to pay it back, and furthermore, we cannot afford to lend it them even if they swore they would. But they couldn't ever pay it back!
The reason why the Greek government wants the loan in the first place is to pay the interest on existing debits they have which they could not and cannot pay back! Spain, Portugal and Italy are already in the queue for loans, they have already announced it! And, Barry, as you yourself have pointed out in a thread, the vast mojority of jobs given in Britain go to foreigners. Many British people sign on because of it! The Tory economy policies, Barry, are a total desaster! No better and no worse than Labour's, or Libdem's, for that matter!
British women are generally already hard-pressed, having to contribute with paying the rent or the mortgage, as a man alone cannot afford this even at an average salary. Why should British women have to work themselves barren for Mediterranean women sitting there all day with their feet up, and have to pay their husbands' debits? Barry, the Tories are no better than Labour or Libdem, if what you are sayung is their policy of intent. - City bankers who are always giving (lending) the saved money of working British people to women all round the world, while merrily tossing bankrupt British families out of their grossly over-valued homes through home-eviction (houses in Britain being valued at trebble their proper value), and who are themselves merrily bailed out with the People's money when they send the British banks into bankruptcy, and still cash in massive salaries and enormous super-bonuses, and yet...still merrily home-evict bankrupt British families...and STILL want to give our Country's money to these women all round the world, have gone too far, Barry!
- Do come back to reality Alexander. As time goes on you are seeming ever more extreme, odd and uninformed. We have had some good exchanges in the past so this is a pity.
- Will keep up!
- Barry, what is odd in that what I posted here this morning? Did or did not the majority of banks go bankrupt two years ago?
Do or do not tens of thousands of British families get home-evicted from their first (and only) home every year for going bankrupt?
Do or not city managers, who caused the bankruptcy of the banks AND effect the home-evictions on bankrupt British families, still sit there cashing in large slaries and super-bonuses, even though they had sent the banks bankrupt? Why were they not evicted from their office when they sent the banks into bankruptcy?
Are houses in Britain yes or no overpriced by three times?
Just tell me what is not correct in what I am writing here! - Good morning each and Barry.
I have been taken-in by the statement.."We are all in this together" adopted by Dave to be his own. Also I have come to the conclusion that (a long while since) the people shall bear the brunt of the proposals from each of the contenders to 'fix' the mess that was brought about by the greed and the incompetance of those self-same contenders.
BUT.
I feel that the people should get something for their trouble and none of the contenders have much to say on that front.
I have proposed that on day one of any new Government/Parliament the house of lords should be abolished at a stroke!
This would go some way to repay we poor souls that are set to suffer to keep Dave and the rest in the manner to which they have become accustomed and ensure that Democratic reform is given the prominance it truley deserves.
Barry & the Blues.
What is in it for me?
N.B.
This does not preclude the Red and the Yellow from answering and coming clean.
Am I to be 'a good little boy' and be ever so greatfull for what the politicoes propose? - Hello Tom, I remember bringing the subject of democracy up with you some months ago, and I think we are both asking the same question: how to have a law that allows the public vote for local and national issues of importance? In this case, I would say: vote UKIP, it is part of their agenda!
- Good morning (nearly) each and Barry.
Alexander, your vote is your affair. I rejoyce that you are using it.
Hecklers, Not a good word can be said about the Reds and hecklers.
I am still a little troubled with the Marr medication question. I think (it is but my own opinion) Gordon is medicated. Added to this is the terrible habit the Reds have of making a virtue out of necessity and so... Brown is now to be pittied because he is no orator. It is either that he has nothing to say or he is too 'chilled-out'.
Dave too has saved the worst till last. He is not one jot better that all that have gone before him. He too has his little list and the weak and vulnerable are to be his initial target. Once (even out of his own mouth) we were all in this together, no more. He is now back where the Blues are happiest, dividing in hopes of conquering. If the Blues get a working majority in the commons what is Greece today will be Britain tomorrow. - They werent really heavies throwing the guy out as said above, they were just other supporters of the Labour Party. The guy above with the rosette doesnt look remotely like a heavy, and when I saw the TV coverage, there werent any heavies, one of those throwing him out was a woman.
But then the heckling business has changed. They are all rent-a-heckler nowadays because the idiotic channels like Sky News give them way too much coverage. They could be just idiotic cranks in real daily life and everyone gets way too excited with them ...which will only encourage every piece of flotsam and jetsom to fess up at every rally now in the hope he can sell his/her story to the newspapers. £80,000 went to 'the bigot' for a non story...so open the floodgates sesame! - ...PaulB
This may be simply your NewLabour credentials showing, but.
Please do not seek to blame Mrs.GM.
She certainly was not the story, but as your esteemed leader did not have the moral courage to 'fess-up' to his crass behavior the non-story runs and runs.
I do not know quite what I would do if I was laid hands upon by heavies of others in the situation alluded to above, but there would be trouble. With a capital T. - tom
rabble rousers add nothing to a debate.
people go along to listen to the speakers, not to a loudmouthed, attention seeking yob. - Howard, we can agree on that. But, who is to say?
One man's rabble-rouser is another man's seeker for truth.
Perhaps fewer reporters and more residents. Less Bull fewer cowed? Perhaps these days there is too much managed message and too little mess. So much is laid out as the finished article with no room for discussion. Why bother with voters? - What shoud happen at public meetings then people should be free to make their opinion known, there is no need to heckle a speaker if everyone is given a fair chance to air their own view. Hecklers cause problems because they do not agreewith someone/something and don't want people to hear that view being discussed. I'm all for public engagement in public events, and that all get a chance to have their say - but that also meansthat he speaker has theirs without being interrupted. WOuld you be happy if you were not allowed to express your view
- It has to be said that all the electioneering in the world will not help solve the crisis that is set to befall us all over the next few years. Earlier I referred to the energy crisis which is looming and will hit us like an express train. Of course then there is the state of the economy which again I spoke of but seemed to be largely ignored by other posters. For those (like me) who like to read an easy guide to what is happening I suggest reading the April 8th essay on the Taxpayersalliance webpage.
It's not easy reading (meaning it will make you swallow hard) but is worth a read in order to put into perspective what is and is not being discussed in the hustings. It's no wonder that bloke was ejected from the labour party groupthink meeting. They really can't handle the truth.
In that regard he cannot possibly be considered to be described as a rabble rouser or a loud mouth attention seeking yob.
The truth can hurt people, it can really hurt. - heckling is simply anti social, nothing to do with truth.
the post from stephen said it all, serious questions are welcomed.
some of the stuff i have seen on the campaign trail reminds me of the people that go to football matches simply to shout abuse at the dug out of the opposing team. - So what you are saying Howard is that you would prefer to listen to the vacuuous ramblings of politicians who lie and spin but do so oh so politely rather than someone who is prepared to stand up and demand the truth? I know who I would rather listen to. Of course not all hecklers are those who do attempt to expose the other side but what what used to be considered a noble tradition is now seen as something out of the ordinary - such is the emasculation of the political process.
Years ago "What about the workers" was seen as the stock reply of the proleteriat but that would now result in an arrest probably under the prevention of terrorism act.
It appears that the patronising attitude from the political classes and those with money still seem all pervading. I was under the impression that the sixties, punk and modern media put paid to all that.
It seems that some people are happy to suck up to those "better than themselves" - what some here do not allow for are the different types of heckling. Some is just thuggish and disruptive, one incidence of this was back in 1983 when a crowd of extreme left militant tendancy were at the back of Dover Town Hall screaming and shouting just trying to stop the Conservative meeting. The Chairman, Ruth Purnell, called on the audience to stand up, turn around and look at the extremist mob. She then said simply that they were an example of what we were fighting. It was a classic, the disruption was put to good use shaming those doing it.
Other heckling is more subtle Ray Norley as explained in the blog and by the asking of difficult questions or interuptions designed not to stop free speech but to disrupt the flow of the speaker.
It was all part of the rich pattern of elections.
I will post todays blog a bit late today....sorry - Those were the days Barry .
- i doubt that the reds never thought it possible to get a clear majority.
they have been working towards a coalition with the yellows despite what they say in public. - This is all awful! Are these people really trying to govern our Country? As far as I am concerned, and here my opinion differs to that of many, Parliament is the governing house, and not just the government. All those members of the three parties sitting in Parliament are responsible for the outcome, as none of them ever presented in the last fiteen years any policy that differs to that of the government.
In Parliament, the vote allows the members to vote democratically, and does not oblige the members to vote according to what their party-leader prescribes. I reckon there was a total lack of good ideas to vote on over the past many years, and the three mainstream parties hardly differ at all in their policies and proposals! - An interesting development which should put the cats amongst the pigeons. In order to speed the lisbon treaty through various aspects of the treaty were rushed and badly drafted. So there will have to be another vote in order to ratify said treaty. It would now be very interesting to see where all three parties stand in terms of giving us the chance to voice our opinion on the matter via a referendum.
- Thanks for that heads-up Philip. I have just checked and it does seem to be true - ab anazing opportunity for Cameron, a real bit of luck.
Conservativehome's reaction here but you might have to cut and paste the web address.
www.conservativehome.blogs.com/centreright/2010/05/a-gamechanger-for-cameron.html - Having dug around a bit sadly it seems that this may not be what its cracked up to be, Philip. You know the EU as well as I do, the last thing the EU will want is to risk their agenda being derailed by a small matter of democracy. I suspect the EU will try to find a way to fiddle this without having to hold an intergovernmental conference seeing that to a large extent it is very much a technical matter.
However, it is a ray of hope and I would hope and expect that DC will announce his support for a referendum if this conference is to be held and indeed to push for one. It is certainly in the Conservative Manifesto to bring in a law to compel such a referendum and it would be fully consistent to do so. - Barry, do you mean a referendum for Britain to leave the e.u. or just a refrendum to say yes or no to the sick Lisbon treaty?
- The only way to save the UK, is by voting UKIP on Thursday so please get out there and vote show the other partys that it is the public that count and have the last say.Thank You.
- Alexander - on the Lisbon Treaty - that is what is being discussed here and a new intergovernmental conference that could spark it.
- no need for a referendum,its allready been signed by the labour goverment,along with the other 26 goverments.
- Brian - the point is the Treaty may need to be re-ratified because with typical incompetence the EU has messed up.
Re-ratification means we can have the referendum that was promised.
Fingers crossed that this story is accurate and an intergovernmental conference is needed. - barry,as i said the goverment allways breaks its promise of a referemdum.so why keep belting on about it,because it will never happen.if it does i will eat one of sues hats.
- Don't judge the Conservatives by Labour and LibDem standards Brian.
- It's also a principle of our parliamentary democracy that no government may bind its successors. That would include international agreements. The fact that Brown has ratified the treaty is therefore irrelevant, as a later government would be free to abrogate it.
- I am not sure that is correct as ar as international treaties are concerned Peter. If that was so it would be a recipe for chaos.
- As far as EU goes, the best policy would be to have a full debate and explanation of the pros and cons of being in the EU, where it is going and the final destination along with the potential effects of limited entry as per Tories or witrhdrawl as per UKIP. Then, when all the facts have been clearly given and all parties and participants have been able to clearly state their views and ideas, there should be referendum as to UK role in EU, one that would be binding for all sides.
- Peter Garstin, Stephen! Well done! This corresponds to Democracy!
- Vic, you are convinced in the Cause, I sincerely wish you the best results! One day Democracy, such as the UKIP envisage it, which I also dearly believe in, must come around! We must keep up talking and writing about it, because this is how many good ideas and reforms in the past have come about, by people talking about an essential reform that needs to be introduced, so that more people can caress the idea and make themselves a view, and join in asking for the reform. In this case, it is Democracy! As well as national Sovereignty, which has been signed off.
On the Daily Express blog I came across interesting comments about Mrs. Windsor having signed away British Soivereignty through the Lisbon treaty! I didn't join in that particular debate, however the subject has been brought up on a national blog!
- Good afternoon each and Barry.
With these words I bid you all farewell, until after the election. You have been an inspiration to me and I have enjoyed your 'company' immensely over the past months.
Happy voting all.
The Floater Comes To Ground.
I care more than I matter
for me, this is my shame
over all the fluff and chatter
it's "party before people" that I blame
The system works against me
I see red and am oh so blue
the unfairness will not beat me
I know what I must do
I care more than I matter
yet now I have to choose
I do not choose to flatter
for then Democracy shall lose
These are my final words...
I matter-my shame. Chatter-I blame. Me-so blue. Me-must do. I matter-choose. To flatter-Democracyshall lose. - i was going along with the post on full debate on the eu by stephen until the last bit.
the referendum would only be on our role in the eu, not about the possibility of withdrawal. - barry,as i said no party keeps its promises.
- A vote for UKIP today will be a vote to keep the UK.Withdrawal from the European Union can benefit the UK right across the spectrum, from immigration to crime,Tax jobs and the economy. So for the last time of asking please VOTE UKIP TODAY. Thank you.
- Sorry should have been clearer - by Uk role I included the idea of withdrawl as a potential outcome. Sorry for the lack of clarity in my post
- Dreadful photo! Looks like he's being chased by a zombie!
- It does look like it has been photoshopped!
- that picture with the bloke up against david cameron looks decidedly unsavoury.
- that picture with the bloke up against david cameron looks decidedly unsavoury.
- “The test for a referendum on a new treaty is whether it hands over an area of power from Britain to the EU. Adjusting the number of MEPs clearly wouldn’t, so no referendum would be required on this point.”...........according to a Conservative party spokesperson apparently.
I don't know who this person is and a google search doesn't help so it's impossible at the moment to see whether or not this really can be attributed to anyone in the party. If, however, this is the case then it highlights yet again the Tory party stance on issues such as this. It's the principle of keeping a promise and not the promise itself.
Also if that statement is true it's hard to justify. The tidying up exercise involves the appoointment of an extra 18 MEPs and presumably this has the potential to have a large effect on decisions made in Brussels.
It's going to be a very painful few years for the Tories where the EU is concerned - I think we should realise that there is no desire on the part of the e.u. agenda parties to allow a democratic vote for us to be rid of the e.u. system, they have already decided to knuckle our Nation down, and the results we all know! Only Democracy can rid the e.u. commissioners from our midst. The best thing is to keep insisting for Democracy in the proper sense of the word. With referendums and votes, on local and national isues.
However, concerning e.u., our Sovereignty has already been signed away! That's why we need to win it back, and we have the democratic right to do so! And freedom of speech.
Vic, whatever the outcome - I've voted - do not give up the cause!
To give up is to surrender and accept defeat! - Well done Barry. A knighthood must surely be in the post.
Well played Barry.
Commiserations to my fellow non-believers. - Barry, well done! If Labour and Libdem do not get in, then hopefully we can discuss your ideas you mentioned about leaving the e.u. As you stated you are for this move, I hope you and many who think likewise in the Tory sphere will ask for this move to come soon! I hope mass immigration to Britain comes to an end too, and that a recent proposal of mine on the front page that British Columbia be taken into consideration as an immigration state be considered. Our Garden of England in Fair Kent cannot possibly be a mass immigration area! It's our Garden!
- In the end the big winners in this election are the public where they finally realised that voting liberal meant voting hippy. A great day in that respect. I only hope that David Cameron takes this on board in respect to some of his other rather way-out policies which hopefully will quietly be consigned to tomorrows recycled paper heap.
I'm hoping for a speedy election in the next few weeks now the Country can see where labour and liberals really stand and vote for a strong and decisive Tory Government. The sooner this is done the better and all the time wasted doing deals with other parties can only make matters worse. The markets can only wait for so long until they turn their backs and consider the UK as a basketcase. - philip,totaly disagree with your post.the best way forward is to vote for what you call the hippy party with labour and conservative partys being relgated to minoraty partys.
- Philip - the markets could go into meltdown next week if some sort of arrangement is not made that places Cameron in no 10. There is not long to do it. We are weeks away from a potential credit rating downgrade and all the damaging effects that will have.
Tough action is what is needed and this political stalemate is not going to provide it.
We will get another election soon, I am sure, but not for several months and in the meantime the markets must be settled. - Barry I agree with your point and I think I pretty much said so in my last post. I spat out my cornflakes this morning after listening to Ban Bradshaw on the radio earlier this morning. According to him the public really voted for a coalition of the labour and liberals (er, the progessives) putting the Tories into second place and therefore the losers.
Disgusting and an affront to true democracy. He is implying that We now have now adopted proportional representation without a vote, without a referendum and without the consent of the electorate.
I've never trusted these two socialist outfits before and now any doubts as to that belief has been well and truly confirmed.
In the meantime Rome burns while the fools fiddle. - Hallo Barry! Hope you got back some sleep! Barry, what would happen if the Footse and whatever other markets are attached to modern day speculation melted down, as you suggested, would millions of immigrants start marching off back to Eastern Docks? I hope they do, I might turn out to wave them good-bye!
- what ever barry.
- Barry, I'll tell you what happens next, just found it out! The so-called 600 million pound contribution Britain was supposed to make to an IMF loan to Greece as you suggested has now become a 9,5 to 13 billion pound contribution which Britain MUST pay to Greece as a loan (probably never to be seen again) as the fool Darling has just signed this obligation, on the grounds that Britain cannot veto it because it is tied up for ever and all eternity in the Lisbon Treaty, which Mrs. Windsor also signed, by the way!
So, that's what a new Tory government would inherit from Labour!
I don't suppose Darling and Mrs. Windsor will contribute from their incomes though, oh no, they are always exempt. I think I read on the Daily Express Blogg, if I remember rightly, that all MP's are entitled to a golden handshake nowadays, so Darling will probably be quitting Parliament a very rich man, when he has finished with us.
Nice day today, isn't it, Barry! - Alexander - you are mixing up the IMF deal and the EU deal.
Britain would only be liable for this dosh if Greece were to default and that is by no means certain.
I am not defending it, merely pointing out the facts.
A lame duck Chancellor with a weak bargaining position. Not good for the country emphasising why this hung parliament is a bad thing. - It seems that the liberals are willing to put their own parochial obsessions in first place ahead of the greater good of the Country. What a despicable rabble they are.
- the way i see it as the blues are doing exactly the same thing.
they knew that proportional representation was essential to getting a coalition, yet they continued to negotiate.
inevitably the yellows have now started talks with the reds.
- Barry, I am not mixing up the two, or actually three loans that wer thrashed out. For the record, the first loan is an e.u. loan of 190 billion pounds, of which Britain MUST contribute 9.5 to 13 billion pounds. The second is a loan of over 500 billion pounds, the third reaches 900 billion pounds. I reckon that the third loan includes the other two. This loan is for eurozone countries only, should they need it. That the Greek government will certainly help itself to a large portion of loan number one is a forgone conclusion!
The second and third loan figures have something to do with a contribution of the IMF, the first loan is totally e.u. (not only eurozone). Barry, I did NOT mix this up!
I listen in to BBC and read papers, you know! - did anyone else see the altercation between adam boulton and alistair campbell.
totally embarrassing, campbell in particular looked like the playground bully, boulton was not that much better, but you could see he had totally lost it. - Howard, I think Barry is not very talkative as the Tories seem to have a serious problem winning over the Libdems, who Barry only ten days ago called "yellow idiots"! Still, I thought it was funny, and wonder what he'll call them now if Labour gets back in again! (Or stays in).
- Alexander - I do have to work sometimes!
Yes - I have not changed my mind about the Libdems and would prefer not to have to deal with them. However after the farce of the last few days there is no chance of PR being adopted or people voting for the yellow peril in such numbers for a lot of years...
Alexander - I have tried various version of phrasing a reply to you but cannot get it past the idiotic spam message filter! - now now barry stop swearing in english try saying it in french.
- Alright Barry, if that's it, then I'll let you get on with it. I suppose now that the Tories have become government, you have no need for a different opinion! Not even to outline the horrors carried out during the past thirteen years in terms of legislation and governing! Well, good luck then!
- Good morning each and Barry.
Foes Progress Towards Partnership?
I am happy to clear up this apparent Anglo-centric Blue domination. I gather these are the figures...
England aggregate votes as below:
Conservative ... 9.9 million.
Lab + Lib ... 13.1 million.
Here and there as I go about the comments I see are on the whole optimistic for our future under this yellow-Blue government.
Politics 'may' not be the same again, as you almost state. More; The end of the beginning rather than the beginning of the end.
I wish them well.
My hearty congratulations too to The Hon Mr. C Elphick MP. I have heard that he is a decent chap and I hope this popularly held opinion lasts throughout this Parliament. - Good morning each and Barry.
As the old joke has it: "Tea break is over, now back on your heads."
It would have been tedious, no doubt, but more true to have appended 'Con' to many of the names above.
You, Barry and the ultra-right pundits you quote have stated clearly what being a Tory is all about:Self!
Not for you, Democracy. Not reflecting the public will, but shenanegans from day one. Just one Con after another.
Speaking of; "the scandal of welfare dependence". What of the Quangos, the army of advisors: Public subsidy for Railways, unchecked public support for Bankers?
Surely each & ALL those who rely upon public munifecence are dependent on 'welfare'?
P.S.
Of those you mention above which is tasked to promote Manufacturing? Wealth Creation? Community cohesion?
On that last point. Are we truely in a Pickle? - Centre right, Tom - not 'ultra-right'. You are certainly not representing what was said accurately. For instance the welcome for Michael Gove and the pursuit of his 'free schools' policy. That will be of greatest benefit to those children in failing sink schools, 'self' - no.
OK so you want rid of Quangoes, good because as things develop I am certain you will have a lot to be pleased about there. Public subsidy for railways, well I personally think that we need railways and dont object to some subsidy being built into the system provided there is competitive tendering a best value is being obtained. Bankers? you need to lok at what is actually happeneing there as I really dont think you have grasped the facts.
Manufacturing businesses will do best if they get less Government red tape and lower, simpler taxes, as will all businesses. Wealth creation the same, governments do not do any of that, the private sector does. As for 'Community Cohesion' Baroness Warsi is the expert there and it crosses a range of departments and responsibilities but IDS will have a big role in that. - Yarn! What! I've just voted, Barry!
- fixed term parliament starting with this one barry?
not very likely that the two parties will last that long, i would estimate 2 years maximum.
incidentally, how do you think vince cable will do as secretary of state for business? - I think Cable is a weak link in the Government but we shall see.
I suspect that you are wrong there Howard. Yes none of us really know and when the tough decisions are made LibDems make take fright, but I do think that there is just a chance that it will last. The fixed term was agreed to provide added stability to the coalition. - the only weak person i can see in the cabinit is george osbourne,vince cable should have been chanseler.
- Well let's hope we have a reasonably longish recession to last for the next, say, ten years or more. At least by shrinking the economy the lights might stay on at least. If there is a push to expand the consequences would be enormous. With Cleggeron in chief Huhne at the helm of the ministry of no energy here today fella and climate change is not made worse by the Icelandic volcano cos it's not Man-made, We are in deep, deep, deep, deep trouble.
Then you add the nations favourite Cleggeron Saint Vincent of all that is cuddly and nicey picey about politicians things start to look really grim.
At least Iain Duncan Smith is in cabinet. Much respect to that Man. - Barry, just taking a peep round the corner, not interfering with gov. here, but your audience doesn't seem very impressesd!
- What audience - I really dont know what you are going on about Alexander.
- You describe the 55% proposed requirement as hot air. You also suggest that some labour politicians feel strongly against the proposal giving the impression that there are no Tories who feel that this is rather like enforcing the enabling act during Hitlers rise to power during the 1930's. None other than David Davies, Charles Walker to name but a few do indeed feel extremely angry. In my opinion the dynamic duo hope that the imposition of such a move will cement their tenure for the longest period possible under existing Parliamentary rules - lucky for us periods of office runs no further than five years.
Rather like two jolly chums who haven't seen eachother since school and meet up after years of tedium and going nowhere fast the two of them meet up and in a state of euphoria invent plans for the future and come up with ever increasing dreams cemented by pacts which the day after resemble something from the night before that should really be forgotten. We've all been there only We don't run the Country.
Riding roughshod over hundreds of years of Parliamentary democracy all for the sake of political expediency is something We should all be very alarmed by. A labour party, a labour party (thanks Neil) set up the Scottish assembly as a fixed term parliament - well what do you know? That says it all and let's face it, it hasn't really been tested. There has been no real crisis up there since it was formed. Some might say that they all know which side their bread is buttered and wouldn't want to kill the golden goose but that's another story.
In the end I think this Clegg/Cameron lovein is doomed to crash and burn not because it involves the Conservatives getting into bed with the liberals but because the Conservatives have got into bed with the liberals.
Witness the scandal of the liberals hatred of all things nuclear but will stand down when it comes to put forward measures to urgently build nuclear power stations. Their grass root supporters although naive and stupid will never forgive them for that one. Expect major fall outs and eventual divorce sooner than is expected. - Philip
You are so correct, and public spending cuts and when they should happen is nother the Lib Dem's under Clegg, are complete opposites to cameron.
So it's going to all end in tears, thus cameron's move to try to keep hold of it (fixed term)
you can see the cracks nationally appearing already, this will harm tories/lib dems at a future general election
interesting times ahead - Philip - re-read what I said carefully you have either mis-represented me or misinterpreted. I explained the facts and corrected what some have claimed this proposal to be, I did not suggest only Labour were objecting and did not even suggest I was supportive.
Keith in the real world massive cuts would happen whoever won and DC have placed a LibDem in the position of Chief Secretary to the Treasury in charge is cuts....A fixed term parliament was something all three Parties supported in the election. - BAZ
You are correct, but lib dems/tories are poles apart on when this should happen(timing)
So whilst old NICK is enjoying this honeymoo period, the knives are out by his very own supporters, which he has to continue to sell. I'm not sure once the big cuts start that NICK can hold his party together.
There of course there are the respected tories who are to say the least upset that DC went in with the lib dems.
All REAL WORLD baz - Keith - the big difference is that the true scale of the economic problem is starting to be revealed. Labour kept it hidden, not revealing the level of pension liabilities and PFI debt but that is being unearthed by the Office of Fiscal Responsibility and the previous estimate of £1.4trillion is now over £2trillion.
The Conservatives will be proven right and the Libdems facd with that are not silly enough to dissent from the action needed. - Well thats a very interesting picture above there in the editorial. Not something we would ever have expected to see...all along the spouting was for a Lib Lab Pact as per previously, but no not a bit of it these days. Truly fascinating times. Its all gone politically a bit flat now that the election is over...but cheer up there may be another one just around the corner! as how will the guys in the pic above hold it all together?
However that said..when Nick and Dave gave that press conference in the grounds of Downing Street they certainly had terrific chemistry going with each other...so who knows what they might achieve, although if you listen to grass root Libdems they are not happy.
Yes our finances are in a mess but brought about mostly by the horrific banking crises which was a global phenomenon as is clear. We dont need to keep fighting the election as its already been won now. Any government of any hue would have reeled under that financial crises. - PaulB - you still make light of Brown's responsibility for what has happened to the UK finances. Brown claimed he had banned boom and bust and ran the finances accordingly.
He, through changing banking regulation, was to a large extent responsible for the banking crisis too.
He kept borrowing and spending when he should have repaid debt during the long growth cycle.
He got the inflation brief wrong for the Bank of England encourage the housing and debt bubble and discouraged saving and investing.
This is not fighting the election these are economic facts the result of which massive public spending cuts need to be made.
Interestingly the latest estimate is that public spending will have to be cut by 20%. Back over a year ago when the media were talking about 10% cuts I forecast 20% on this forum.... - Barry, hold on! If the Treasury had paid masses more money back to the banks say ten or five or three years ago, the city bankers would have lost that too, buying up packets of fifth-hand mortgages from agencies in the USA, or investing it in the Abu Dabhi or whatever it's called group, and anywhere in the world other than in Britain. That too would have been all leant away in crank projects by crank city bankers! All they did was to invest Britain's saved money all over the world and lose it all!
- BAZ(MATE)
The election is over, and come 18 months the honeymoon period for Nick and Dave will be to.
Once the public spending cuts begin watch the lib dems come out of there closets, already they are speaking out.
There still is the debate that the private sector should also share some of the brunt of any cuts, dont forget it was was BANKS when privately owned gor us in a lot of mess and most walked away scot free.
Also the top earners giving themselves over inflated rises even if making losses has to bear some blame.
So roll on the next 18 months - Let us not forget they just give them self a pay cut of 5% but it was only afew weeks ago they had a £20 per week pay rise so they have had no pay cut at all.
- well spotted victor, more points to you.
good to expose duplicity. - I've only one thing to say in regards to this coalition.
Chris Huhne.
I'll say it again.
Chris Huhne.
Chris.
Huhne.
Remember that name when the lights go out.
Chris
Huhne.
Chris. Huhne. - Good morning each and Barry.
The election IS over...
The Reds got hammered!
The Blues did not catch the public imagination.
We are where we are and it is a better place than if the Reds had still been involved.
Yes I did see the letter from a local (Dover) Lib-Dem worker in the Torygraph (Stein?), but where he gets his disappointment I know not. What has been put together is the very best of a bad job and those now in power deserve their chance at governing.
No job for the local boy?
On the pay cut.
They were on about £64K and the cabinet are now on about £127K. That is the sort of pay cut we could each do with. - Hello Tom, in fact, those now in power, as you write, do have their chance at governing, and people are wondering how they will govern. Also, no-one is stopping them from governing.
I peprsonally am also trying to figure out what they are up to, and am not inclined to give the coalition more than a few months.
I believe we should eturn to the Kentish hundreds economy, when people spoke English and planted orchards, gardens and had work-shops up and running. And ships carried goods to and fro' to Europe. I'm thinking of finding a new address, where the people are and speak English. I have the impression of living in an eastern European colony where I am. - That Liam Byrne note to Mr Laws was a very light joke indeed... and just that, a joke. Made much of in todays Conservative backed newspapers, who like to invent a story out of nothing, not that I would ever do such a thing! I met Liam Byrne briefly when he came here on a flying visit and he seems a pleasant individual so I can understand the nature of his joke. In a way I think David Laws did too, the way he was referring to it yesterday was without malice. However much has been made of it since but its just a deflection. The newspapers need to adjust, the election is over, they got the result they wanted.
- BAZ
It was as you knowa light hearted joke, like many outgoing tories administration persons have also done, but been taken as just that, light hearted.
Lets now get on with sorting country out
ta - Whats that Keith - your admitting that your lot left the finances in a mess....
It is not funny for one of the guilty men to make such a 'joke'. - i see in the daily mail that the big hit with the tax rises will be on their readership, middle england is due for a right bashing and they are not happy about it.
how will the prime minister and chancellor explain this away to their supporters after the emergency budget?
UK inflation in April 3.7% by the official CPI measure - well above the target of 2%.
The RPI rate (commonly used for pay negotiations) 5.3%.
Plus Sterling has devalued by 5% against the dollar since the election.
This is going to be a long hard bumpy ride........- Type in google videos "meltup". It's an interesting watch and, as they say, Where the US leads we follow. The pundits who feature are respected (though contrarian) economists. Peter schiff, for example, was laughed at by most of the mainstream talking heads on the financial channels when he foresaw the oncoming crash a couple of years ago.
It's not one of those conspiracy virals that have been produced over the past couple of years but an intelligent look at where we are and why we are here. - This is awful! I too read in the papers today that a note was left saying that there's no money in the Treasury!
But actually there are enormous State-debits too, however this wasn't written in the note! Is Mr. Osborne aware of these debits?
About 850 billion pounds, I think. I saw the figures on Barry's blog some weeks ago.
Barry, could Labour ever get back in again, after leaving that note in the Treasury, I mean that debit note for 850 billion pounds?
Any British family leaving debits like that would be home-evicted on the spot! - It gets worse than that Alexander. The Government is spending £167bn more than it receives as income this year. Under the over optimistic figures from the last Government that was set to halve by 2014 when the UK debt was expected to be £1.4trillion.
The picture for the total debt is actually worse than expected prior to the election, we should find out how much worse within a few weeks.
In addition the last Government's dreadful figures look set to be far too optimistic. Estimates are the the debt will not be £1.4trillion but more like between £2trillion and £3trillion. Again we should find out more by the time of the budget.
Imagine - more is being spent on interest alone, now - than is spent on Education. That puts it into perspective. Imagine how much that interest bill will be by 2014 if the deficit and debt level is not cut, even if the UK credit rating is not downvalued resulting in higher interest rates....
The picture is truly appalling.... - This is incredible! Holy Spitfires! 2-3 trillion pounds! How on Earth could Britain get into such debt? Somehow, I think it is technically impossible for so much debt, because the same money would have to be lent out time and again many times over, and I am not sure if people have that much money to keep buying gov. bonds anyway. May-be you could one day explain, albeit briefly, Barry, who actually are the creditors of all this money, and would be creditors if more debts are made. It simply goes beyond my comprehension!
- Alexander - the people who buy the government bonds are investors looking for a safe place to park cash. This is the problem, if the borrower looks less safe then investors will be less willing to buy and a higher interest rate premium is required to attract them. Already the UK is paying at rates, as a AAA rated country, higher than AA rated countries. A formal downgrading of the UK to AA will push up rates further.
On the positive side and what makes the UK a better proposition than Greece is that there are longer redemption dates on most of this UK debt. This will not save us for long though if the markets dont see an acceptable plan to reduce the deficit soon. - Thanks, Barry! Well, I can't see how it's possible to reduce deficit, debits and co. when the prospects are that these will only increase!
It doesn't fit in. I still keep to my view that we are better off going back to the olde Kentish Hundreds economy, where the only markets are the fruit and vegetable markets, and manufacts too (made in Britain whenever possible).
May-be we should distribute all Britains state debits among all British citizens, equally, and, one accord, come to the local Comon Green, solemnly deposit all these paper debits with hedge-funds and what not all on a heap, and watch and testify as a match is extracted from a box of silvesters, struck, a d is added, and a bond-fire is started. the debits go up in smoke, and each community sits round the fire on their village green and roasts sausages, while a common drum of tea is brewing over the fire! - seems that our barry was not exaggerating about the "scorched earth " policy of the reds in the last days of power.
the independent today reports that permanent secretaries all over whitehall were against the procurement of things, and contracts signed that were over the top spending wise. - And they also signed that 9.5 - 13 billion pound loan to bankrupt (western) e.u. states!
- Barry, have you read the Financial Times today? It seems that anything could happen if bankruptcy scorges Britain more than it already has done! I think that last loan to Greece and Spain and Poortugal was the final step. Because how the British are supposed to bail out Britain and Greece, Spain and Portugal, and still continue sending packs of money free to eastern e.u. states (war reparations or something) and continue giving every possible job to eastern Europeans in Britain after closing down whole sectors of British industry and transfering it to eastern Europe, goes beyond anyone's comprehension, and not just mine!
- headline for the picture above.
goverment minister areasted for not wearing a burka.lol. - Barry, I heard on BBC world news today that the e.u leaders are planning a new campaign to impose 'one political will' over all e.u. states. This seems to herald the abolishing of all parties except one in each e.u. state.
The chanceler of the Exchecker Osborne has already had skirmishes with the e.u. about it, apparently they want Britain's money, and to abolish national legislation on finances! - Max, more likely for not having green hair, or for not wearing a 12 star halo!
- Yes Alexander, pity the Conservative Eurosceptic have been weakened in the face of this threat by the LibDems having so much say. if UKIP had not lost us 10 seats we would be in as stringer position to take a tough line on the EU.
- barry
is this the same ukip that you dismissed as an irrelevance on this forum prior to voting day?
seems like the chickens have come home to roost. - Yes Howard, an irrelivance by way of any prospect of getting MPs but, as I said, helping the pro-EU parties in the election by splitting the Eurosceptic Conservative vote...
A pathetic vote share but enough to cost the Conservatives 10 or more seats and to strengthen the Eurofanatical Libdems in the coalition.
A vote for UKIP can therefore be interpreted as a vote to be soft on the EU.... - nice twist on things barry.
the blues are about as euro sceptic as my cat, a lot of talk but no sign of action.
don't forget the the party that you have courted and formed a government with has been taking votes off of the red for many years now.
that will not happen the next time round as you know deep down. - Actually Howard - I think you are wrong. I suspect that they could well take votes of Labour at the next election.
Memories are long and at the next election they wont have to be that long to remember the sheer scale of a financial mess Labour created. No-one buys the rubbish that it was all only down to mad bankers and a world recesion, that rubbish does not wash at all. What happened was on Labour's watch and they enabled the bankers to do what they did and they spent 10 years madly spending and borrowing in a way that was unsustainable.
We will be in a different ball game next time and the LDs could take over as the main opposition to the Conservatives. There are precedents, Baldwin (Tory) helped Labour supplant the Liberals in a situation not entirely dissimilar to what we now have. - Barry, something puzzles me about your opinion that the Conservatives are " Eurosceptic ". I find this quite amusing, as surely the first thing that anybody would want as a true "Eurosceptic" would be a full and fair democratic Referendum on whether or not we should pull out of the EU.
I think what you`re really saying, in so many words, is that the Blues are "part-time" eurosceptics.
Furthermore, prior to the election, if Cameron, the eurosceptic, had given UKIP the promise of an "in or out" referendum at some stage during his term of office, then NO UKIP candidates would have stood at the General Election and he would have been home and dry as a Prime Minister with a decent majority.
As I`ve said before, don`t blame UKIP for the mess you find yourself in, blame the Tory leadership.
- John - I personally want completely out as do a significiant proportion of the Party. The majority though want a middle way, a tougher, no-nonsense approach, no Euro, no more transfer of powers and to get back a lot of the powers that have been already ceded to the EU.
It is not just a matter of out or in.
I also do not think that public opinion is yet ready to vote to get us out. A failed vote to remove us from the EU would weaken the case to get out all together for decades to come, possibly forever. A referendum must be at the right time when public opinion is ready.
UKIP are counter productive on the EU. They weaken the Eurosceptic case in parliament by watering down the anti vote letting in more LD and Lab members, they also weaken those of us in the Party by not being inside the Party and working with us to that end. - The UKIP are up 50 percent, Barry, on the last Elections, and are therefore an ascendent party! Bound to get better and more influential as time goes by! A winning party!
- Thanks for the reply Barry and I can see where you`re coming from, although as you would expect I don`t fully agree with you!
Firstly, you say that the majority of the party want a "middle- way" . ie., get "tougher" with the EU but stay in it. Could I ask you, therefore, how you come to that conclusion? Have, for example, either your party members or your MP`s actually been asked or balloted on this issue? Just a thought.
Secondly, you consider that public opinion is not yet ready to vote for an "out" of the EU and a referendum must be done at the right time. Well, my response to that is quite simply that if it is not the right time now to hold a referendum then quite frankly it never will. How much worse do you actually think that the EU has to get before the British public would vote "no" to staying in.
Finally, your comments regarding UKIP being counter productive on the EU is somewhat unfair. Without wishing to go over old ground again your Party would not have been weakened by UKIP had you offered us a referendum. Not a lot to ask for something that would have virtually guaranteed power to the Conservatives.
After all, you`ve had to conceed more to the Lib-Dems than you would have to UKIP so what was the problem?
Let`s face it, if it wasn`t for UKIP most of the population wouldn`t be aware of how bad the EU really is, I don`t recall in the past too many Conservative MP`s complaining about about the EU, apart from a few that were told to shut up! - barry
trying to retrieve powers from the superstate is out of the question.
the choices are stark, concede our eventual sovereignty to the bureaucrats , bit by bit or withdraw.
the eu is in a dodgy position at the moment with angela merkel questioning its very future and also the future of the currency.
there will never be a better chance to ask the country whether they wish to remain in or leave. - BARRYW
Sadly once again you have got it wrong!!!!!
Although I probably would have done things diffrently, the rebel 4 (ncludes the town mayor) did not have the support of the offiial labour group on the town council.
I think the 4 should consider whether they wish to be LABOUR town cllrs or indies.
You can't have it both ways
If they went indy at least it would be known where they wer coming from, rather than doing things in secret - The e.u 'government' actually is not even the e.u. parliament in Brussels, but a secluded gang of state leaders. namely: of Germany and France, possibly with a few characters from some other western countries, a Belgiun bloke, a Portughese bloke and one or two others, and a slightly larger group of still others, I would say about twentu in all. It's a Stalinistic type regime, where even the e.u. parliament with its thousands of seats is in reality only a farse, with no real power. I think that Angela Ferkel and a French man and a Belgian are actually the people who decide everything that concerns e.u. policy over 27 countries!
It's the greatest farse that ever hit Democracy, making the Breshnjev era of the USSR seem like a true democratic era!
- Barry, concerning your head theme, don't you think that what I wrote in my post Council Economy Boards a few months ago was heralding the idea of more decision-making going to local Councils? In fact, if councillors in their limited area can see how many local people are unemployed, they can also determine how many jobs are needed, and what factories are needed, and which training needs to be given, and then organise all this!
But any idea to get back lost sectors of British economy such as the textile and electronics industries and all those sectors of heavy industry which since 2003 were transfered in block to Poland, seem to be a no-go area for the Tories.
I see only one party that wants to get back the lost sectors of productive economy, and that's the UKIP.
The world banking system which British banks are involved in is as much a Labour as a Tory policy, it went bankrupt two years ago, and has nothing to do with proper productive economy!
In fact, it is an official statement of the BBC and even the German government!!! that SPECULATION triggered off the final spark in the Greek crisis, because people wityh lots of money (or lots of other peoples money) and with nothing better to do, speculated on bonds, hedgefunds, and shares and whatever all that paper rubish is with seals and figures stamped on it.
Don't you think it's time the Tories woke up and became more mature?
- John - there is plenty of evidence of the Euro-sceptisism of the Conservatives if you care to actually look.
Ken Clarke lost 3 leadership bids because he is too pro-EU. Conservative candidates and MPs have been surveyed on their views and have come down heavily Eurosceptic. The betrayal of Mrs T did the first major damage to the EU-fanatics in the Party and that is what led John Major to have so much trouble, the proEU tail wagging the Eursceptic dog over Maastrict. Having been to many Conservative conferences I can state categorically you will not find many people who are happy with the EU status quo.
I have said it before - UKIP are a doing more to advance the cause of the European Union than anyone outside the Libdems and Labour.
Alexander.
I suspect that you do not know a thing about hedge funds, bonds and shares. You need to find out a bit about them and how economies work, then you might be able to have a mature conversation about these subjects. I can recommend some reading for you....
By the way, I sincerely hope that you have some shares, bonds and, maybe even some hedge funds, within your pension or will have some serious problems one day. - according to most of the press this morning, the only frontline service that will not be hit is the police.
- Define 'frontline service' Howard. Departments can be hit without affecting what I would call frontline services.
- Barry, if two years ago the money of the British People hadn't been pumped into the banks gone bankrupt because of their bonds, shares, hedgefunds and Uncle Tom Cobly and all, and if in many other countries the governments hadn't dobe likewise, the banks, which went massively bankrupt, would have had us sitting around in caves, as they had just sent the whole financial system bankrupt! Your reply avoids what I pointed out, that according to the BBC and the German government, just to name two sources, (but many analysts probably stated the same) the Greek Tragedy of bankruptcy was triggered off by a spate of speculation with speculators buying and selling....whatever, perpers, shares, I don't know what! And I believe the vast majotrity of people don't know what these things are called that city bankers and other agents buy and sell while gesticulating furiously on phones in Wall Street waving their arms and hands about and making signs.
The last name I heard on BBC was 'naked bonds', or something, and that the German government suspended the trading of these 'naked' whatever paper issues, to prevent the Greek Tragedy spreading to Spain.
- Barry, concerning your dispute with Howard here, I believe I can define for you what Howard means: that 300 000 public sector jobs will be axed, and adding to this, no more young people will be recruited into these public sectors. Only the Police Force will be excempt from sackings!
- barry
just a few for instances, workers in the mod that procure equipment for our armed forces, teaching assistants that give teachers more time to to their job correctly, pcsos etc etc.
- Actually Alexander, once the big cuts get announced I would expect well over 700,000 public sector jobs to go, they are simply not affordable. We have far too many people doing far too little in the public sector, I do not include valuable doctors, nurses, police, teachers etc in that. We need to divert resources to the private sector to create wealth instead of consuming it.
Howard - I think you have been reading up the wrong sources. There will no doubt be such jobs going as many schools face falling rolls (resulting in teacher losses too I expect), not because of coalition cuts. Yes correct about the backroom bods at the MoD, we know how shambolic procurement there has been for many, many years and that will have to change.
Alexander. Please, please find out more about what you are writing about and then perhaps we can have an intelligent discussion about it. I simply do not have the time (or charitable inclination) to conduct an education excercise on investment, for free, on this forum of the type that clients pay me to do for them.
Find out too the real reason why Greece has its present problems. I really dont have the time to give you chapter and verse.
You dont understand the markets and the City sadly, or indeed international finance and economics, while trying to pronounce on it. - We would not need to have any cuts if we get out of the E.U. now the saving would be about 50million per day,for each day of the year.
- Nor true Vic - you need to re-examine your figures. The EU, appalling as it is, does not soak up as much as the deficit.
- Barry
How patronising
you wont get debate with posts like that - Whats quite clear is that nobody will be pulling out of the EU anytime soon. All the main parties have no intention of leaving the EU. David Cameron while in France recently said he "could not foresee joining the euro in this parliament " And although he was talking about the euro there, it clearly shows a long term committment to the European Union itself. He went on to say that the UK needs to see a strong Euro, a healthy Euro, as most of our trading is done there.
UKIP had their chance in this last election and we were all interested to see how they would do across the country. Dear old Lord Pearson rattled on about these figures as mentioned by Vic there, but the public did not embrace the notion of pulling out at all, as probably too many of their jobs depend on it. - As I just said we did stop the blues geting 20more seats,Ukip is still a young party and we will get better and better just wait and see.
- Hmmn. I'm not particularly impressed by the size of these cuts. £6.2 Billion to be saved compared to £6.4 Billion We will pay out to the EU every year. Our share into the pot has increased by 60% this year. Not so big a saving after all.
Also by getting rid of the wasteful and totally pointless department of energy and climate change, gravity, asteroids, rude people and let's hold hands and wish for world peace, further billions would be saved in an instant.
One other great saving would be to repeal the rather unsuccessful climate change act( no don't laugh it really is called that ) We could be saving £18 billion per year. I won't hold my breath on that one however, if you catch my drift. The incredibly naive Cameron and Clegg double act really do believe that they can change the weather.
Bunch of losers. - paul
you may be right about the parties here, but may be forgetting that the germans have expressed grave doubts about the future of the eu and the currency.
they are the masters now!!
the trading thing is a red herring, we are a net importer from the union. - Your comments about EU trade are quite correct Howard.
This is one of many EU "myths" that are fed to us in order that we feel insecure about daring to quit this institution that swallows up vast amounts of our money.
There are roughly about 3 million UK jobs that involve some "trade" with the EU but these jobs would be conserved by a free trade agreement. However, the benefit to us would be that outside of the EU we would also be free to slash red tape and develop new trade with the Commonwealth and the emerging markets. Overall, jobs would be gained, not lost.
The Taxpayers` Alliance independantly estimates that the real net cost of EU membership costs us £2,000 per year for every man, woman and child resident in the UK.
If the ConDem Alliance is really serious about making savings then take us out of the EU NOW!! - Good to see those Barry, thanks.
Some of them may not be saving a lot, but they seem to show the spirit of a new way of thinking which must be good.
Walking to meetings instead of going by ministerial cars for one and I was pleased to see the child trust funds go - talk about looking after people from the cradle to the grave.
People must learn that they have to take responsibility for their earning power, not rely so heavily on the state to meet all their costs.
People who really need help, it should be there - as a safety net, but we've said many times, that the lazy and workshy should realise that the end of their lazy days are close.
Roger - John Buckley and Howard are quite right, the trade/jobs argument is spurious. We would trade just as well with the EU as a member of EFTA and we are a net importer of good from the EU. Our so called 'European partner' would not want to place their exportrs at risk through tarrif barriers.
- I love the one..."ministers are expected to walk between meetings!"...thats nothing more than PR to grab the attention of the national news organisations as it will save next to nothing in the overall scheme of things. But its a headline grabber...I'll give it that.
But just to nip back to the European Union for a moment. I dunno Howard..the Germans wouldnt be pouring a vast fortune into something they saw as a dead duck already. The opposite is the case surely. In the press conference that Sarkozy and Cameron gave a few days ago which was very pro Europe...Sarkozy said that the Euro was already "the second strongest currency on the planet" and nobody disagreed. The Dollar being top.
John I think the UKIP argument about withdrawal is probably basically an emotional one. it strikes at the chord of independence with limited immigration, and so on so forth. Thats fair enough but would that suffice in the harder world of real jobs and real economics. Developing trade with a sometimes unstable Commonwealth is not the answer in the modern age. India yes, a growing economic power..outside the Commonwealth there's China.. a large potential market, but at this time, just heard this on the radio yesterday, we do a tiny amount of our trade there, not enough to sustain the pub cat never mind massed jobs.
So there is a huge mountain to climb in developing trade elsewhere. I personally would like to see the EU as strong as possible because if that falters hugely, then we will all be hit very badly here in the UK whether we are in or out. But as I said..I dont think 'out' is a goer. - PaulB - remember that wise old saying about looking after the pennies....
In the situation we find ourselves the more small savings like this that can be found the better, they will all add up.
- Roger! I am not too sure if lazy and workshy are the right terms to use for young British people who have no experience in a factory or on a farm, as millions of others are employed in Britain to do all this, and when one goes back, another comes in and takes their place, so how can these young British people without working experience ever get a real chance in their own Country to find a job? My idea is, national work service. Army trucks come, the unemployed British run and jump on the back, are driven singing: Rule Britannia! to the farms and factories, serge and corporal send all the others out, all who are imported labour, and teach our own people to work, without any bullying or shouting, mind, and teach our own people to receive a salary, count the money, smile, and say: Rule Britannia!
Roger, I have no compassiom for the idea of employing millions of 'busy eastern Europeans' in our factories and on our farms and then calling the unemployed British people lazy!
- i thought the scrapping of some ministerial cars sent out the right message.
the money saved is minimal but shows the new goverment setting the right example.
great cartoon in the times today, shows the her majesty and the duke of edinburgh walking up the steps of a tube station opposite westminster
the bubble coming out of prince philip said "bloody osborne". - There were some rather stupid policies in the Queens speech wouldn't you all agree?
- roger
If only i could believe your posting
I know you have strong views on benefits
but as iv said on many posts
NO GOVT no eveen this cobbled together one will go the full distance, once the outcry starts. they will back off.
that i'm certain of
or they will propose stuff far short of what is required - Alexander,That was avery good post,we are already seeing the true face of the blues and they are talking the same as they did 40years ago,
- My goodness me there's a whole heap of rubbish policies listed above. Who wrote them the local branch of the hold hands and make world peace hippie party?
For starters more of those stupid academy schools. Rubbish state education by another name for failing schools but that's an obvious one, an easy target.
Then of course the, erm, don't laugh, the ha ha ha energy bill. No don't titter.
Oh oh I nearly forgot a border police force? So is that the police becoming immigration officers or visa versa?
Clueless, populist list. Awful. - There is certainly a lot of stuff there on the new governments plate, so fair do's so far...they have got right into it straight away.
One problem that worries me still and Ive said so before is this new private schools idea. You know the one where those nice middle class West London type parents can set up a new private school if they are unhappy with their local schools. The real problem for me here is how will it be paid for??
Lets take any given area. Suppose there are 10 schools in the given area. Fulham couple start new school idea with local Fulham similar set types. I used to know these Fulham/Chelsea types up close . Horrified by state schools, they now set up privately owned school for little johnny to attend. The government will pay...after all it was a Conservative flagship policy in the manifesto.
But where does the money come from. It comes from the budget of the other 10 schools mentioned, thereby rendering all those kids worse off. Common logic there on the funding, as all know there is no money in the kitty...so isnt this a recipe for chaos? The other schools will suffer while perhaps a small minority might win. - PaulB - this is based on a system in Sweden that has transformed education there for the better. It will not just be parents that set up new schools, charities, teachers etc will also do so and many may well be in existing school buildings.
More smaller schools are likely to emerge from the Swedish model. It has been costed with the koney following the children. - cant see it working properly here though,if one folds the kids would suffer.
- They are flagging up a parent school group in Wandsworth at the moment. On R4 this morning the chap leading this group say they have found a building in Wandsworth that will fit the bill for one of these new parent power schools. It is a very large derelict building but could accommodate up to 900 kids as I understand it.
However the building itself and its grounds being in London, is/are very expensive, in the tens of millions...£10,000,000 to buy the lot and a further £20million to refurbish. The chap doing the talking was a property surveyor...interesting the people I knew in Fulham/West London as referred to earlier were surveyors/ property developers so I can visualise the type with a wry smile.
Now where on earth would this money come from. Fantastic level of cash involved here in this Wandsworth move. Will the new government live to regret this parent power notion? - Vic, I thought I'd let you know that, if you go on to the Daily Express Blog, and read the comments there, the pubblic participating in the Blog are practically ALL against the e.u., and for Britain being freed from the e.u. I also write on this Blog, and what I write is in no way more severe than what most others write on it about the e.u.!
There is NO pubblic lobby for e.u. membership, and people are becoming more and more aware of the madness the e.u. represents. Just keep up, Vic! The UKIP is representing Britain in the best way, and the more you bring the point over, the more people will join in with their own views and ask for us to rid the e.u. from our Shores! On the Daily Express Blog, we give each other courage, and that's how it builds up! Democratic opposition to the imposed e.u. system! - Roger, I notice that you bring a topic up, but then don't carry on, and shy off instead. In the past I have already asked you what you mean about lazy people, if you are referring to many unemployed British people siting in job-centres while others march in and do the work! But you always seem to back off!
Unexperienced British people who have never had a chance to start working will always remain unexperienced as long as a government abandons them and does the private interests of tens of millions of experenienced Poles! For which reason they were never elected, per Constitution!
In a system where gov. does the private interests of tens of millions of Poles and other eastern Europeans, young and elder British people will increasingly stand no chance of ever working! - this new idea about the schools only came to the fore halfway through the election campaign, i wonder how much thought has gone into it?
in my experience new governments like to tinker with the education system, each time it seems to mean more work for the teaching staff and never really helps the children. - I have just written something about eu funding (no, not to Britain), it's on the front page in reply to Barry's comment to me, and hopefully Barry might explain if these e.u. funds for 2010 to just ONE country (Poland) is 'recycled money'. Please, any participant on this Blog may go and research how much money will be raked out on eu funds to each individual eastern eu country! Add to this the bankruptcy of Greece, Spain Portugal and possibly Italy, and Britain's own bankruptcy, and make your conclusions if the UKIP is out of date with reality!
Yes, Britain and the north western eu countries must pay all these many billions of pounds and euros to eastern Europe, and these are NOT loans, but 'receivers keepers givers weepers (idiots)' funds! - Howard - I highlighted this policy on the forum after the Education Policy Review was published a couple of years ago.
It was carefully investigated with the review team making trips to Sweden to see it in operation.
It is not some mid-election cobbled together policy. Even the legislation was prepared and ready to go before the election, again I said this as well.
It is a radical policy that will change the whole shape of the education system for the better. Pity to see a stick in the mud attitude from many.
- not so much stick in the mud, more to do with politicos meddling with our childrens future.
- Actually Howard, this is more about less political intervention in future and releasing schools fropm excessive political control. Freedom to open new schools, froeedom from local authorities and more freedom for heads to run their own schools.
When you have an overcentralised system like ours it takes, initially central intervention to correct it. - wont that cost more money,i thought we was cutting on spending.
- Not necessarily as you can start from the better distribution of the existing budget with the money following the child, same principal as now in fact but with added freedom. Extra money will be involved with the child premium though (LibDem idea, but supported by Conservatives). There could be some capial spending implicatuon but private sector funding could be involved gthere. Capital receipts may also be obtained from redundant schools property to offset capital costs. The Academies also introduce private money into education (Archers Court being an existing example) so despite tight budgets the overall amount spent on educating children could increase.
- barry
private section funding in schools??
i hope not, i seem to remember that nice mr blair introducing the private finance initiative.
that will take generations to pay back. - Howard, there are several forms that this funding might take, the PFI is not the only way. Sponsorship deals can and do work. An open mind is needed here, lets not be dogmatic at a time when public spending is under pressure.
- barry
if i can intrude and raise an issue on your blog, i have listened to mr ids on his welfare reforms.
the previous government had already implemented the ones he mentioned.
1) get people off of incapacity!!
this has been in action for over 18 months, every time a claimant goes for a medical nowadays they fail the test and are put onto another benefit that is less lucrative and and means that they have to attend endless interviews at "nojobcentre plus" an go on to training courses.
2) make work more remunarative than benefits!!
the tax credit system does exactly that, for the first time in my memory an unskilled worker with a family to support can leave the house each morning knowing that they will end up a lot better off by doing so.
i hope that the blue/yellow people do not dismantle this as it will only hurt hard working vulnerable people. - I have to take issue with you there Howard and I do not agree about the effect of tax credits. IDS is developing some very worthwhile ideas that will clamp down on the benefit culture and will force the issue more.
I do not accept that high benefits will help people back into work and that the tax credit system is doing that, in fact there is evidence to the contrary.
Labour lost the plot when they asked Frank Field to think the unthinkable and then sacked him for doing exactly that, blocked by Brown's Treasury. - Barryw
interesting post, this article always got bottled at last minute by ALL PARTIES.
Yep your right about F Fields, to right wing for me in his general thoughts, but on this issue he started to head in the correct direction and yep T BLAIR SAID TO F Field, no chance brother lol.
This was the one time i felt sorry for f field who had put a lot of effort into this project asked for in the first place by t blair.
suppose thats politics. - Keith, Frank Field too right wing. You realise he is supporting John McDonnell in the leadership contest!
- Good morning each and Barry.
So Barry this 'Tax-Credit' subsidy to the worst of employers is still not good enough for you?
Far better, perhaps, to pay people $1 a day so they can compete with the third world and watch the rise in the Cardboard-futures market?
While the Reds might have been happy to reward rogue employers, landlords and low cost supermarket chains to help fix their own figures is it the intention of the Blueys now to fix their figures by encouraging workers to sleep beneath a new breed of satanic-looms?
Is the labourer no longer worthy of his hire?
Better the Green proposal to 'pay' each of us enough to live on and let the self promoting entrepreneurs with the expert help of financial whizz-kids to see people as an asset?
What can the minimum wage, by itself, buy? And could it ever be profitable to make and sell whatever that purchasing power can afford?
Money, in or out of the economy, must go round to make the world go round. When will those who gained/fiddled while Rome burned accept that what goes up must come down?...on them too.
A fine state of affairs when a raspberry cannot fit into a crippled economy other than as ballast. - Barry, I came to Dover as a lad from the Shires!
- Lord Prescott. Lol.
- now lord paisley, can it get worse?
- probably howard,the eton boys might get a peerage.
- Bob(Deal) whoever you are
Yep, look at F Fields politics very right wing
who he supports up to him, prob knows he aint going to win and being a rebel.
- On the pace there BarryW with that editorial above. Sadly although David Laws is a likeable guy and as much as I hate to say it.. he must surely go, we cannot condone people doing dodgy stuff no matter how talented they are. This guy is the Chief Sec to the Treasury, a position that must be free of all blemishes on character.
There was a Libdem guy on Radio4 this morning uttering such stupidities in defence of this, that I almost threw my poor moth eaten radio out the window, He was saying in effect that Laws had minimum expense claims and although £40,000 was claimed it could have been much more. Like this was some kind of defense!! That is no excuse in law. Its akin to asking the judge in a trial for a bankrobber.."well judge - he only took £40,000 but he could have taken a £100,000, therefore he should be let off".
...there is also a thread running on this topic in the Members Club Forum called "Theyre at it again!" - couldn't agree more, he should do the decent thing and offer his resignation.
the new politics on offer states clearly that any "fiddling" is tabboo.
why he tried to keep his sexuality secret is beyond me. the press always find out these things.
we are now in the 21st century, does he not realise that people don't worry about such things now. - He needs more than a mere slap on the wrist. He has no choice but to resign however good He is at his job. When the eventual strikes and demonstrations come about following stringent measures to deal with the deficit He is going to look very foolish on the one hand telling people that they have to swallow the bitter pill and on the other what He did was justified. Even if it's a mere matter of public perception his presence will merely serve to deepen resentment towards politicians.
As a nation it is vital that any cuts must go ahead in order to save the economy and the public must trust those who wield the axe that at least what they do is in the public good.
Another reason is that Cameron promised us a transparent and sleeze free Government. He can't make exeptions however convenient it might be. There's plenty of time for him to rejoin the cabinet after some time in the wildnerness when time will serve to dim the collective memory. - Well He's resigned then. He's done the decent thing and I commend him for that. Now if only someone could persuade the energy and climate change (no don't laugh there really is that department) secretary to give up they would be doing us all a favour.
We're on the verge of a serious energy crunch in this country but for laughs some clot has put Chris Huhne in charge of the ministry of the most stupidiest hoax since Piltdown man - truly a minister without a portfolio. I wish he was a minister without a job.
Just saying that's all. - Surely replacing a Cambridge man with an Oxford man will upset the delicate balance of the coalition?
- it could be worse,it could be an old etonion.
- There is a story now coming out about the new man Mr Danny Alexander, where and when is all this going to end? are they all crooks? just in it to see how much they can take for themselfs.
- Interesting one there BarryW, and yes I remember back when both Mary Whitehouse was generally reviled, and when Joan Bakewell was referred to as the "thinking mans crumpet". Dear ol Joan presented a lot of the arts features on TV, was attractive, and it seems quite a girl behind the scenes...not that any one of us knew it at the time..
Mary Whitehouse may have had some points to her squeeky clean campaigns but none of us were interested. We were all happily going to 1970's hell in a handcart. However her campaigns were fierce and they did make ground...but to my mind she did not have the presentation or image skills to get her message over to the public, but she did indeed put the fear of God in TV executives and Government officials and the like, which did prove fruitful from her point of view.
But interesting to see that now Joan Bakewell sees some merit in real restraint in public broadcasting. I do now myself. The other week for example there was a revolting Luther crime programme on BBC1 of all places. It showed the revolting degradation of a kidnapped woman...it was a blueprint for mass weirdism in my view and I cant see the merit of showing stuff like this. It would have significance only for people who want to carry out such crimes by showing them how to do it. - Well done, Barry! I fully agree with you here!
- Well at it again.
The New "Axeman"Danny Alexander has charged taxpayers more than £13000 for his wife to make 62 journeys beween London and Scotland.Why must we pay for that. ? - vic,as this poo is getting boring,who cares anyway.
- Because, Vic, the law includes this sort of payment as being part of privileges to people governing. I know it doesn't make sense, but they hand our money out to all and sundry in the world whenever it pleases them, bilions, and billions, and billions of pounds every year, to cover war damages one would assume; they probably reckon we lost a war, and have to pay for it.
That's how the Second World War started, because after the First World War, Germany was made to pay so much money and all the time, until the German economy just collapsed within a few years. First they took all the gold reserves, and all the Germans could do was to print paper money until it became worthless.
Somebody must have decreed that Britain and the West of Europe lost the Third World War, and decided to make us pay for it.
The ministers involved in expense scandals probably reckon that, with all the tens of billions of pounds taken from our tax-paid money and handed over, and with all the tens, nay hundreds, of billions of pounds of lost trade income caused through so many of our factories being closed down and the machinery packed off to the East, that a few thousand pounds more for private expenses won't make the difference!
Sadly, this is the reality, and no Democracy in our Country is stopping it! - Barry W
If you think back to 1997 Blair answered questions at the new extended PMQ's without a single sheet of notes.I think you wil find that as this coalition govt progresses and becomes more entangled in domestic changes and worsening foreign affairs that Camerons bundle will increase with the heavy burden and responsibilty of running the country and maintaining the coalition. - marek,are you saying that the condems are being condemed to the dustbin allready.
- Brian
It's difficult enough running the country and maintaining unity in your own party but Cameron also has to try and placate the Lib/Dems at the expense of some of his parties pledges.I just think he is that good a juggler and therefore I foresee troubles ahead. - That other Question Time was on TV last night and an oddball affair it was somehow. We had Diane Abbott, that carbuncle on Labour's behind, rabbiting on oddly on behalf of the party. She has this bizarre penchant for forever looking at the ceiling..a malaise she is endeavouring to correct. But there was a minor Tory furore at Labour's Alastair Campbell representing Labour last week, but honestly, for Labour supporters it was massively better than last nights dreary representative. I guess Labour's main players are still off licking their wounds. Diane is still touting her bid for Labour leadership...but its not going to happen, even if the guys opposing her all "look the same".
It was a fairly dull panel otherwise...Mathew Parrish wasnt too bad...apart from of course Kelvin MacKenzie former Sun editor and now rabid right wing looney..wind him up and let him loose for full on verbal diarrhoea. Example: he fully endorses everything Israel does including shooting the 9 people onboard a ship in open water on the high seas. Hmmmm... - Marek - the big difference though to both Blair and Brown is that Cameron really is answering the questions!
- Barry, in fact Blair was Britain's worst nightmare ever to come true, may it never happen again! I read in the papers that Blair is offering his services as mercenary to various governments and banking groups, and cashes in many millions of pounds for it. I hope he doesn't land with a mercenary army somewhere in Britain and try to take over!
Shire Soldiers be Vigilant! - In that list you missed out draconian drink/drive limits to be lowered. Although the Tories say they are in Europe but will not be ruled by Europe it seems that it is inevitable that Cam will follow blindly and do what his masters in Europe tell him to do. Ha ha ha. It's beyond a joke really. Add to that other extremely strange laws which will be enacted over the next few years (coalition willing) which start up in Europlanet his "strong position" will be shown to be a mere sham.
- BAZ
Will comment on a few of your postings as to many to go through them all;
1;Natinal security council, good idea but hope it doesnt become
talking shop
2; Still not sure on way schiools should go, and if they do go route
Baz suggests what happens to the other schools?
3; Quangoes far to many and loads created by previous
tory govt mustn't forget that, doing away with the ones
that don't work fantastic Idea.
4; ID Cards, I do understand some peoples concerns over ID
cards, my concern now is that we allow terrorists to run free
I'm a great believer if you have nowt to hide I.D. cards
are not a problem, but the over intrusion on what info goes
on an ID should be re visited but looks lke this one gone for
now. - barry
do you think that making a party political point about the tragedy of last wednesday is responsible?
sometimes human issues are much more important than point scoring. - No Howard, not at all. I was making a clear point about how this Government differs from the previous one. I noticed over the weekend similar comments have been made in the mainstream media, the Sunday Times for instance.
- Yes I agree education will be changed for a more "British centred" history education. In the future children will learn that a British Prime minister was "suprised" by the size of the deficit and made a series of doom-laden speeches telling us how life in this country will be the poorer for decades to come. They will learn how a crucial part of transport infrastructure was cancelled (the third runway) in order to "save the planet" but would lose the country billions in revenue lost to other European hubs. They will learn how a Conservative party managed to carry on spending billions every year in order to "save the planet" via the climate change act which they collectively signed up to like mad automatons and yet leave hard working people the poorer after the emergency budget.
They will learn how more academies would be set up in order to cover up the disgrace of failing schools in the country. They will learn lots of things about the folly of politicians. Bless 'em.
- Barry, your posting is top class. Great that you make a distinction between Europe as a continent with many countries and e.u. as a sick system! And, of-course, Britain as Britain!
- Barry, I hope that this multi-culti business of importing settlers to our densely populated Country comes to an end for ever more!
My view is that enforced settlements in our Country stem from cynical new-labour contemp towards the British People.
We need to promote programmes to train young British people and encourage these to enter employment, I would say in military fashion, with training and discipline at the baracks and plenty of moral support, and then to the factories and the farms! People without work-experience don't stand a chance when masses of experienced workers from wherever march in and grab the jobs, and then the benefits after one year of employment! We have been betrayed by Blair and his new-labour policies! May they never come back to haunt us, but be gone forever! - here barry whats wrong with kilometers,every thing else is in metric,from petrol you put in your car to the water you drink,evan the dosh in your pocket.i would presume that mr cameron and his cronies would want to turn the clock back to how it was.in my view that would be a jurrasic event,and we all know what happend to the poor old dinosaurs dont we.
- Are you suggesting that we British arfe dinosaurs, Brian, sixty million of them?!
- in a word yes.
- alexander
i can remember when enoch powell as health minister was active in encouraging immigration from west africa.
tony blair can not take the blame for it. - i rember enoch,loved his rivers of blood speach.allmost good as one of churchills during ww2.
- The dinosaurs became extinct in the cretaceous not the Jurassic.
- exactly colin,they died because the couldnt adapt.
- Howard, Blair takes the responsibility for what Blair did!
- Barry, again, to the point! (althopugh I would say that city-bankers did over-invest Britain's saved money here and there in the world and sent the banking-system bankrupt). However, bankers in other countries did and achieved the same in that very period, so this equals out the shame and somehow annuls it, does it not! Besides, Barry, let's not argue over this now, but just add one more fact to your brave and wise points above: New labour also tried to solve Britain's unemployment problems by flinging mass-immigration at Britain, and when it didn't work, by flinging more mass immigration...and just kept on importing 'em!
At the same time, New Labour kept flinging Britain's factories to Eastern Europe and beyond, and as this didn't solve the unemployment problem either, they just kept flinging more factories to the East - or rather, the machinary inside the factories, leaving these latter empty!
And new Labour kept flinging billions and billions of pounds to Eastern Europe, not loans, gifts, of tax-payers money!
Hopefully New labour will never return to haunt us! The nightmare they left behind is so terrible, that we couldn't afford them to come back! - I have it on good authority that Brown was last seen selling the Big Issue with his back to one giant wind turbine in the far North Reaches of Scotland. Is this what He meant by turning round the economy by investing in green technology?
- BAZ;
Because you keep mentioning the Labour leadership shows you are interested/concerned.
To me once the Lib Dems o along with the Public spending cuts the tories want to introduce, they won't be forgiven.
As for Labour like other govts of all colours before it, had been there 3 long terms, and people wanted a change.
Labour now has to re group and i'm sure they will,
I didn't totally agree with T Blair but he reformed the labour party to be electable, wasn;'t all to my liking, but change the party he did.
Things have changed in a big way in the past you could roughly say who may win council seats and where, but a lot of that changed slowly and for many differing reasons.
ie; people brought there council houses and then thought they were suddenly part of a conservative party? weird but true.
People started to see that MP's were overpaid, and not only thsat many alspo greedy, and some not in the real world, even argueing when they got caught with fingers in the till.
To the avarage person they could see no diffrence between the parties(although there are many)
In local councils im mentioned briefly on other posts elsewhere how restricted cllrs can become, but also how often do you see ALL your local cllrs? or do they only come round election time?
Do the local councils realy have that much power to change much?
Reg Hansell is campaigning for a unitary councvil, not convinced about decision making, but never the less dont think any one can disagree at the hugh cost of 3 councils - Keep mentioning the Labour leadership, no Keith - this is the first time I have mentioned the leadership election.
You are very typical Labour - denying what is obvious to everyone else, that public spending cuts are essential and inescapable. Yet you still talk as if its an option. - I don't think anyone would argue that cuts are necessary the only question is " how deep should the cuts be and from where and over what period of time should they be implemented?"
- Some very basic facts Marek - there is a structural deficit that must be dealt with combined with a start on repaying the national debt in time for the next slowdown/recession. In fact we need to have a large part of that debt repaid in that time as well.
These come every 8/9 years or so, so there is your timeframe.
We must make sure that spending can increase during that next recession without stacking up problems on problems and debt opon debt, deficit upon deficit.
How much needs to be cut depend upon forecasts for growth and these are now being handled by the Office of Budget Responsibility so cannot be fiddled the way it was before.
I expect the figure needs to be around £75bn rather than the £60bn that many say.
The real debate to be had is what to cut. Even that has some restrictions. - On the top heading on Gordon Brown
I wish him well for the future, Im sure he wants a quiet life now
Good luck for the future Gordon - Hiding away is not good for his constituents who I am sure have their problems. The last thing they need is an absent MP.
- May-be Gordon Brown could find work in eastern Europe in a factory! ha ha ha!
- alex,can i polightly suggest you get a job in a eastern european meat factory.i hear poland and latvia are nice this time of year.ha ha ha
- Not hiding away (gordon brown) from constituents i mean away from national media.
I suspect hes out there now supporting his constituents - barry
i think there is a bit of distortion in your appraisal.
bp have caused an environmental disaster and seem not to be too bothered.
there are elections coming up and mr obama is conscious of the effects of hurricane katrina on the last incumbent of the oval office. - Barry
Cameron is already being critised by even his own party for not contacting Obama and telling him that his doing more harm than good. Camerons silence is playing right into the American press' hands.BTW the White House have not issued any official statements. We shall see what happens later today when Cameron gets back from Afghanistan.There is still some mileage in this story yet!! - Keith - he has not been seen in the Commons at all since the election.
Howard/Marek - I read that the concerns have been raised through 'back channels'. DC apparently is trying not to pour fuel onto the fire by speaking up publically and critisising Obama.
I disagree that BP are not bothered, they have been trying to stem the problem and have vowed to clear up the mess. As for who caused it - as is pointed out in the blog it was an American owned Korean built rig - BP have accepted full responsibility.
Yes there is an election coming up and Obama is in trouble - thats my point. It does not excuse his anti-British rhetoric. - Brian, can I politely suggest that you get a job in Poland or the Baltic republics, as you are the one who keeps harping on about e.u. union and British people becoming extinct.
Thanks, and send us a post-card when they laugh at you and ask you if you are gone bonkers, as I doubt you speak a word of Polish or Baltic, nor that you would actually intend going there, so don't tell me where to go and what to do, this is not 1984! - I appreciate your view here, Barry, and don't want to divert from the point you are bringing over, however I am in favour of an immediate withdrawal of British soldiers from Afghanistan! Our soldiers do not deserbe the hell they were sent to in a tribal conflict in another country.
- alex its a 1984 polish balti.anyway you are the one thats moaning about the eastern europeans taking your jobs,i was sugesting you take one of theres.
- Alright, Brian, we'll leave it at that, and keep on good terms!
- come on chaps, none of this is relevant to the blog.
- howard,just making a point.job done.
- Oh. My. God. I've just read that Chris Huhne is still in office. You know David Camerons' judgement must now come into question. It's gone too far. I was under the impression that his team were well geared up to sort out the deficit and get the country out of the hole it's in but alas No.
This is very worrying now. I thought that Cameron would only play with the big boys toys until some proper politician came along to take over but Huhne is still in office. How can this be so?
To think that I voted Conservative to stop Labour from getting back into office and I feel as if I have been betrayed.
Meet the new boss, same as the old boss only much, much worse.
Add that to the fact that his royal weirdness Nicholas of Cleggyworlds' wife is working for a firm who makes millions out of windmills.
You could not make this stuff up. It's scandalous isn't it?
Hallo? Can anyone else here see what is happening?
We have been invaded by zombies and lizards and nobody but me can see it.
Aaaaarrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11 - Philip -really....
Alexander, this morning in Pencester the USO turned up 3 hours late due to weather and mechanical problems. Some bloke saw us arrive, came straight accross without being asked and started helping with the heavy lifting. He was there all day helping out and thanks to him the job got done, he is coming back tomorrow and Sunday, a great bloke. If he did not come and help out we would have had a lot of problems due to being so late.
What is this to do with you? - he is Polish and speaks very little English. A real grafter and decent chap, like most of the Polish are. - Erm, Yes really Barry. I suggest you read Andrew Gilligans piece in todays Sunday Telegraph explaining the con that is the alternative energy industry. An interesting piece. I don't expect Cammy to agree. Why would he now that he has invested so much into the dream of the (hold on while I suppress a small snigger) Green economy.
I used to think that being Prime Minister or any higher up in Government was difficult and required nerves of steel, intellect and a certain wit not found in the general population.
How wrong I was. All you need to do is to read the back of a prog rock album for your vision, listen to some oaf at a climate change demo and sign the check for the grey suits who stand to make many, many millions out of your, erm, grand vision.
I'm running as candidate in five years time all I need is some policies. Now where exactly did I leave that Yes album, it was somewhere around here last week. - Philip, With all due respect to Gilligan (a historian) in the Telegraph (the home of the often barking Christoper Brooker), I prefer to listen to the experts such as Martin Rees (mathematician, cosmologist and astronomer) whose recent Reith Lecture pointed out (amongst other things) that the clean energy challenge deserves a priority and commitment akin to the Manhattan Project or the Apollo moon landing.
It's still available on the I-Player or as a transcript should you seek enlightenment rather than ill-informed polemic!
- Bob, oh Bob. The facts are staring you in the face and yet you still deny. No matter who wrote the article the truth is the truth nes't pas? After all most of the clowns who predict the end of the world are not expert in the field of climate science and therefore have no right to do pontificate I fully agree with your point. Chris Huhne, Cameron, Prescott for Gods sake, even Prescott with his two jags and multiple chins and saggy eyes knows nothing about the weather let alone what will happen in a hundred years time. God that man is ugly but that's an aside.
As for what you describe as a "barking" Christopher Booker (and not Brooker as you called him) this man has more intellect than most of us on this forum put together. Martin Rees is a mathematician and cosmologist and astronomer yes I agree - so what exactly does he know about the climate? Erm, let's be kind. Absolutely nothing cept what his friends in related sciences tell him which is all hokum but they know which side their bread is buttered so they foretell the end of the world and the proles just lap it up because they know no better.
Martin Rees shouldn't be allowed near a telescope let alone a BBC microphone. The man is an intelligent fool but he earns a good living doing just that and good luck to him I say.
As for the clean energy challenge deserving a priority akin to the Manhatten project ( which managed to kill hundreds of thousands of people) and the Apollo moon landing ( another pointless exercise in how to throw money down the drain) I can see no earthly reason to give this challenge the priority you deem it to deserve.
Case dismissed. Next. - Apologies for not updating the blog for a few days - I have been somewhat busy in Pencester Gardens since 7am Friday!
Back to normal service tonight. I just need to get my mind around matters other than the Hellfire Corner Weekend..... - I have to say that David Cameron is a consumate performer at PMQs. He actually makes me laugh which is a bonus. He is able to bat of hostile questions with great ease unlike the previous PM.
- interesting picture barry, more political photos like that would encourage more of us to get involved in current affairs.
incidentally, you comment on councils being forced into weekly bin collections, where will the money come from with the forthcoming cuts?
councils are already cash strapped.
- The difference is that councils will be allowed to make their own decisions on these things, localism....
As for Carla, you make a good point - any excuse and I will comply....(now, there are certain new Tory lady MPs....... watch this space....) - Yes indeed Carla is a very welcome visitor. She looks as if she was born into the political scene too as she seems to look very comfortable in the higher echelons of political society and indeed in Royal society. She is a considerable asset for Msr Sarkozy particularly on his overseas trips. As we see nowadays wives play a big role. There are some very splendid pictures of her on this visit on the frontpage of bbc.co.uk....ermm wearing a bit more clothes than shown above it must be said.
- she was famous before she met the president, cannot remember what it was for though.
keep up the new improved standard of the blog barry, might even join the blues. - Only too pleased to oblige Howard....
- must be a new tactic,skinpy dressed bints on page 3.i bet she was blue after the picture shoot.lol.
- Presumably the top photograph is how she looks from Sarkozy's eye level??
- Nice one Bob....
- ........No not all Governments are the same but in the case of this particular one it has to be said in this case they are.
A minister of state having to admit to an affair, the same minister making the most monstrous decision not to grant a loan to a company which might help us join the race to develop a nuclear industry but agree to waste millions on the development of milk floats made by Nissan.
No nothing changes really they really are the same. - Arrrggghhh! I've just watched Tim Yeo on Newsnight. Completely ruined my evening. One of the most non-Tory Tories there is and yet he holds such sway presumably due to his age making him an, cough cough, an elder statesman, a grandee. What a joke.
Someone tell him to consider joining Caroline Lucas and the pointless party. Let's hope the new intake of more right wing MPs will push to get this poor excuse for a politician moved on.
A waste of good oxygen. - ......ok a little over the top in my last post but if, as We are led to believe that We are all in this together according to George Osbourne, then cuts will have to be made to all aspects of spending. The amount of money that is being spent currently fashionable unproved scientific theories is really quite scandalous. Forget climate change which in years to come will be shown to be one of the Worlds most infamous scams but matters of public health including banning smoking, diet and alcohol. Very Pavlovian in their presentation and who can argue with those policies except those who refuse to question the recieved wisdom.
- Philip, "and the Apollo moon landing ( another pointless exercise in how to throw money down the drain)"
Just to let you know, technology developed for the Apollo programme and adapted for medical us is now keeping me, and thousands of others in the UK, alive. May I respectfully suggest you get your facts straight before sounding off next time? - and non stick saucepans too sid.
barry
with all due respect you blog would be much more readable without constant references to the last regime.
the election is over, we all want to know what future holds. - Hmmmn, Howard I wasn't aware Man was undertaking plans to fly to the moon in 1938 which is when non stick pan technology was first developed. It also has to be said that countless inventions have been developed over the past one hundred years without the development of space technology so my facts are still straight. No doubt the developments you refer to would still have been invented with or without NASA.
- I think where they Con/Dems missed out is they could have scrapped 'child benefit' for couples earning over £40k and likewise scrapped winter fuel allowance for pensioners on an income of £40k and scrapped the payments completely for OAP's resident overseas.
Obviously a blanket tax increase on VAT catches everyone in it's net..the problem being that the rich will hardly notice the rise but the less well off will suffer. - Hooward - we are where we are simply because of the last regime and measures are needed to correct their incompetence. After all the last regime were blaming Mrs T 20 years after she left office, the last regime are only 7 weeks out of office....
I realise that some may not want to be reminded of what they may have voted for in 1997/2001 and 2005.... - The last regime! That's funny!
- Marek, that would be discrimination! A couple earning 41.000 pounds a year could be looking after seven children, would it be fair to scrap their child-benefit income?
- Nonstick saucepans! Howard, the one I got lost it's non-stick layer after a short while and became rusty, I can't use it any more, I don't want to get an infection. It cost one pond seventy in the poundshop! So may-be the Apollo moon landings were all trash after all! I just need to look at my non-stick saucepan!
- i would look again at the trades description act alexander.
when i was at school a pound was not one pound seventy.
going decimal may be the reason. - Alex D
Good point. I should have stipulated that the benefit would not be paid for the first two children.After that it would be means tested.
For example the PM recieves child benefit although being a millionaire as does Brown.Surely thats not why and for whom the benefit was originally introduced? - That's not fair Marek. The Prime minister has a huge plasma screen television which was pictured in the press when he moved into number ten. How is he expected to pay his leccy bill as I believe these things are monsters when it comes to using up energy. Everyone uses child benefit to buy televisions. You only have to see that whenever they interview some "deprived" people in their front rooms. In the background inevitably there is a large rectangular box tuned to Jeremy Kyle with the sound turned down. They make our offering in the market square look rather small in comparison.
Oh nearly forgot - today is low carbon day so get out there and put a single sock in the tumble drier to show your, er, support. - just to put your mind at rest philip the thanet wind farm has sorted out the operational problem and will be up and running shortly.
- Brilliant news Howard. By sorting out the operational problems does that mean they've finally bit the bullet and decided to take them down? Oh joy!
No, joking aside Howard, it pains me that it's costing us all extra millions in our energy bills in order to line the pockets of cynical and exploitative multi-nationals. It is rare for wind turbines to ever reach their full potential. Even when they don't turn the owners and investors still rake in the wunga regardless. Ask yourself why these things would not be built if it were not for subsidies paid out by you and me. Without those you wouldn't see these cunning ripoff merchants for dust.
Poor old David Cameron eh? Still the deluded fool on this issue. - philip
this is the age where politicians of all hues play the environmental card, irrespective of whether it is effective or not.
we all know that a lot of the stuff that well meaning people put out for recycling ends up in warehouses full to the brim, and is fairly unusable.
usually costs us a lot of money in the long run too. - Agreed Howard. Point well made.
- Well done, Barry! Seems that you picked up on threads of mine from months ago!
- Personally I wouldn't be so optimistic. We are going through yet another long wave cycle albeit fifteen years late in coming. Remember the suckers rally following the Wall st. crash? It took 25 years for stocks to recover to the value they were before the crash.
If the euro does go tips up then we are all up the creek. This would hurt us particularly hard and the US wouldn't be immune either. - Dont be so pessimistic Philip, we are indeed well into a 'long wave cycle' it started with the dom com crash in 2000.......
The markets and economy is very different to the post Wall Street Crash period.
There is a lot of scope for optimism and the break-up of the Euro after initial shocks will help power the European economy to growth. - That's the thing with the (Kondratiev) long wave cycle. It occurs every sixty or so years and has done for centuries. Its very nature, the highs and lows spanning so many years, each generation experiencing this wave are not old enough to remember the mistakes made previously. No doubt politicians and economists will be saying that this is the end of the downturn forever and forever more life will be different, a new order in the economic model. That's the point - it's not a matter of being either pessimistic or optimistic it's just the way it is and always will be.
No matter what is done to confront the problems We face it is written that things will repeat themselves endlessly till kingdom come.
There really is no difference to the way markets and economies are conducted now compared to the way things were done after the wall street crash - no difference whatsoever 'cept various nuances including regulatory bodies, trading rules etc. etc.
In the end it is all to do with people. Profit, greed, political interference, economic models but in the end it's people and as far as I'm aware people haven't changed their nature over the past couple of thousand years now matter how modern and sophisticated we think we are - think Afghanistan, Iraq for example.
Still it's an interesting subject and as they say get three economists to talk about it and your'll end up with four differing opinions.
Hey, great weather today. I'll be watching the England game in the square today. Come and say Hi if you feel like it. I'll be the one wearing a red cross on my face. - Barry, the G20 have finally crashed down on banks! They mustn't throw out cash left right and centre until it is all gone to then wait for the State to bail them out! Does this mean that the city-bankers will have to stop investing Britain's saved money in every project around the world other than in Britain?
It's about time they got told what to do with other people's money, and in particular, what not to do with it (flinging it around the world while we sit here and go silently more and more bankrupt)! - Indeed a few million squids loaned to Sheffield forgemasters might have helped provide the technology to make the UK a major player in the field of nuclear technology. However that and the fact that the Government has stated that there will be no new nuclear power stations built before at least 2017 diminishes the boy David somewhat.
So he bigs himself up on the World stage and will look very foolish in years to come when, like Gordon Brown before him, will claim to have helped solve the World economic mess but unfortunately has to close down Great Britain plc because Great Britain plc has run out of electricity.
What a complete buffoon - and to think I voted for him. - a few small points here.
1) returned powers from eu? did he not say before that there would be no new powers from the eu?.
2) immigration socially essential? ask the people who live here.
great for businesses wanting cheap labour, disaster for local people who find that public services get no extra funding to cope with the influx.
3) localism is just an empty cliche, taking money away from councils and giving them extra responsibilities that they cannot possibly carry out.
4) better transport infrastructure? i thought all new capital spends on these things were cancelled.
5) nuclear power? see philip below. - howard,you forgot apathy a very inpotant ingredeant.
- Oh by the way, to an earlier topic on this blog the question was asked "Where's Gordon?".
Rumour has it that he can be found in a darkened room rocking back and forth, his teeth clenched around a knurled forefinger whilst watch tonights Panorama over and over and over again.
Of course it's only a rumour. - Howard - you clearly have a short memory and did not read what I said properly.
The policy to limit on immigration is socially essential - I am no advocate of immigration as you well know.
The EU - one strand of Conservative EU policy has been a repatriation of powers for years now. That was part of a twin strand along with a referendum lock on any new transfer of powers.
There is nothing empty or cliched about localism - it is central to policy and already a lot of action is being taken to remove government and leave decisions to individuals and local communities - it pervades across all policy areas.
It is certainly not true all capital spending in transport infrastructure is stopped, Osborne said so in his policy speech. they are examining projects for value for money and several have been confirmed.
You will be seeing more nuclear power stations built, the last government delayed and procrastinated bringing about the threat of power cuts in a few years time. The coalition is split on this, true, with the LDs against, resulting in one of the commissions but common sense will win out and quite soon too. Note the above is a Conservative wish list, not an LD one or even a coalition one. - barry
i believe that you have not read what i said.
dave and william only mentioned no new powers over us from brussels, very different to your blog.
the limit on immigration is laughable, does not affect the bulk that come from the european union.
local decisions? all very well if they have money to implement them. - And it has to be said that this policy will deprive us of expertise from non eu countries which have served us very well over decades. It smacks of Pavlovian politics to me. Financial, technological, scientific pointy heads will head in another direction if deprived of an opportunity here. Let's face it, it's not as if our education system is geared up to produce the next generation of winners in the world which we need so desperately. How many top employers bemoan the standard of candidate applying for jobs in their respective companies.
Howard is correct, I'm afraid, when he points out that we are powerless to have any control whatsoever of the flow of eu nationals. Although the idea might be a fantastic one in nirvanaland it has only managed to compound higher unemployment here.
Of course employers say that it's impossible to find local labour but that has more to do with the benefit trap than anything else. That and the gangmaster industry makes it even less attractive to work, for example, in the agricultural industry. Although there's more to it than that including CAP - another eu hairbrained scheme which benefits those who find ways to use the system to their own advantage. - Love the photo of Angela trying to get rid of the two Mormon missionaries!
- Howard - You are completely wrong over the EU. There is a clear manifesto commitment to restoreing powers to the UK from Brussels and this was debated and discussed in the election.
Here is the manifesto wording:
""""A Conservative Government will address the worst of these problems by negotiating for three specific guarantees over powers that we believe should reside with Britain, not the EU:
We want to restore national control over those parts of social and employment legislation which have proved most damaging to our businesses and public services. For instance the application of the Working Time Directive on the NHS;
Labour claimed to have obtained an opt-out from the Charter of Fundamental Rights, but were forced to admit it was just a ‘clarification’. We want to upgrade this to a full opt-out so that it cannot be used by EU judges to re-interpret EU law affecting the UK; and
We want broader protection against EU judges extending their control over Britain’s criminal justice system and we want to ensure that only British authorities can initiate criminal investigations in Britain.""""
Point proven.
The immigration limit has never been claimed to be for the EU. Under Labour immigration from non-EU countries increased immediately they got to power to average around 200,000 a year where previous it was averaging less than 50,000. There will be a cap on this to bring it down close to the pre-Labour figure and interim measures were announced only yesterday with the cap applying from next year. There have had to be interim measures to enable businesses to plan.
As for localism:
The Free schools plan was in the Queens Speech
as were locally elected police chiefs
centrally set school and health targets are being done away with
planning changes are being brought in to give more power to local communities
There are just a few measures off the top of my head - as I said localism and the devolvement of power is central to government thinking. Not only that but it is a tool to help reduce spending by enabling swathes of beaurocracy and red tape to be got rid of.
- so the conservatives are promoting a disfunctinol soicaty,who arnt willing to cooperate on cross border issues like imagration etc.the way things are going we will have a double dir reccion worse than the 30s crash.
- oh really Brian....sometimes.....
- Philip, unemployment among local people cannot be summed up in a few words as you attempted here. Until seven months ago I had never signed on in my life, and work I always found whenever I wanted it. When I first went to sign on, I was ashamed, really ashamed, but now I couldn't give a hoot to whom I say or write it! But when I notice people giving out easy comments to liquidate the existance of local unemployed people, I must put a word in! Everything else regarding this topic that I wanted to write, has been written by me on this forum, in no uncertain terms. I would strongly advise that people who are still sure of themselves give thought to the idea that may-be the pension funds will run out one day, once New Labour's employment policies see billions of pounds leaving Britain and going to pay eastern European pensions.
As for employers 'of course' saying that it's impossible to find local labour: humbug! Take a trip to the job-centre mate! - alex,dont you mean the local joke center.
- All this talk heralding new Conservative policies amount to nothing. Nothing whatsoever I'm afraid. You can employ political consultants, use focus groups, hold high level consultation meetings with grandees, try some blue sky thinking do anything at all to give hope to the people you lead but , unfortunately, this will account for absolutely nothing if the remote Scottish isle of Eigg acts as a pointer to where this country will stand in not too many years from now.
Chris Huhne. The man is still in office. How can this be so? Is it that he knows where all the skeletons are kept? What strange, mystical power does this shamen hold over the Tories that they deem him suitable to hold down an office of state?
People like him, it seems to me, are bent on the destruction of our economy. Why?
Why?
Why? - Brian, I mean the local job-centre! Start calling situations by their real name, Brian, and may-be other people can understand what the situation is really about! There is no joke to unemployment!
New Labour made a massive joke about employment, unemployment and our economy in general, and our Country, and we are paying dearly for it! - barry
much as i agree with employers having to pay for private health insuranced for their imported staff that still leaves all their dependants using the health service. - Howard- most of these low wage immigrants tend to be young and without family.
That said this is not in itself a solution of course, it does nothing about housing problems for instance. But it is an improvement and is right to do.
The permanent cap on non-EU immigrants will help a lot reducing the number from around 200,000 to nearer 50,000 a year. That is when the permanent capping system gets introduced next year of course with the actual level to be announced and reviewed annually. - not true in the folkestone road area barry, most czech and slovak incomers have a lot of children plus parents with them.
unless the employers contribute towards the health and education costs services will be severely overstretched. - It still helps Howard.
Besides it may be that the families can be included, it depends on what the new legislation says. This can be accomodated in Group PME schemes now and I have no doubt this can be the case on a compulsory level. - Did Madame Trussaud do a wax sculpture of Blair, and if so, was he grinning? If I could approach that wax sculpture, and buy it for a hapeny (it surely can't be worth more), I would drag it to the beach on a sunny day!
- Alex - the only PM not to have had a wax model in MT was Brown.
- the parents are encouraging their children to beak the law by cycling on pavements.
- That is not the issue actually Howard - no-one has complained about that.
- But is it not dangerous for children to cycle on pavements? They could collide with a pram or any other person!
- surely no responsible parent would let a 5 year old loose under the control of an 8 year old on a main road?
- They are not on a main road Howard- they cross one under the control of a lollipop lady, thats all.
The point is this must be a matter of parental responsibility and is not any business of the authorities.
In the press today I see they are getting a lot of support, including from Boris. - But at the end of the day, Barry, it is still against the law to cycle on pavements!
- Quite outrageous really! The authorities are causing these poor children to commit crimes against the climate by stopping them using their bicycles. They expect them to use cars which pollute our precious planet and kill polar bears and cause sea levels to rise ten feet in one year and an increase in kidney stones and malaria in East Grinstead putting them in an impossible position. The guilt these poor creatures must feel. They will probably need therapy or something to relive them of this terrible, terrible and intermidable paradox. After all the time spent learning about global warming in primary schools up and down the land and then it's come to this. The shame, oh the shame!
The poor, wee souls. - the way is see it boris johnson wrote a letter to the telegraph in order to get cheap publicity.
it has not featured in any news bulletin that i know of.
barry
i might be better to raise this on the members page as it is non poltical, many members will have an opinion but will not look at anything on a political blog. - There is another nanny state thread there Howard - I had actually written this before that thread, apart from a minor change to the first sentence when I posted it.
It is political - something the present government is looking to deal with. - I note that among those supporting this couple are:
Royal Society for the Prevention of Accidents and the Prime Minister.
I also note that you are wrong Alexander, it is acceptable for children under the age of 10 to cycle on pavements.
Howard - I got and posted this before most of the news media, there has been a lot about this in the papers. - I see that nuconliblab are going ahead with the digital switchover and forcing millions like us (great film that) to dump our FM and AM radios in favour of the inferior DAB sets. What is wrong with Cammy? I thought he set himself up as an alternative to labour but he insists on continuing with this daft policy. Has the man lost his bottle or is he merely just a poodle to the digital radio lobby ie. the BBC?
Anyone with any ability to hear can distinguish between the poor quality offered by DAB compared to FM although the propaganda put out over many years by the BBC has actually made folk believe that the reverse is true. What a complete waste of money, good equipment and a slap in the face to all those forced into buying new radios in these times of austerity.
Ha. Vote Dave get Gordon. - It is a very sensible policy, turning off the out-dated tv and radio technology and to free up bandwith for which better use can be made.
The switchover is already completed in Whitehaven and other parts of the country. I think we are in 2012, without looking it up.
Superior picture quality, superior sound, more channels through your aerial - more crap broadcasted.... I suppose its not all positive. But a good move anyway. - have to disagree barry, philip makes a valid point about dab radio i have what is known crudely as a "wogbox" that gives better reception than the new improved ones.
my telly plays up much more than it did before digital became the buzzword.
you of all people would know that conservative means we do not change for change sake. - Indeed Howard. Your,er, blaster radio gives far superior sound quality on FM than DAB can possibly hope to achieve. Only those with a build up of wax are unable to distinguish between the crystal clear reception of frequency modulation and the sibilant tones provided by digital audio which is a minnonmer if ever there was one. Not only that the BBC have in their infinite wisdom decided to lower the bitrate in order to save bandwidth and therefore money (though it won't lower your licence tax) making DAB sound as if you are wearing a box on your head. I agree that in terms of television this is a good idea but for radio it is recognised by everyone in the know that DAB is very, very old and inferior digital technology. Other countries are investing in DAB+ and other superior technologies whereas, as usual, We're left with the rubbish alternative. Medium wave is good as well and is good for poor locations and driving where generally the signal is reasonably reliable and the reception most acceptable. But as I suggested earlier numerous adverts telling people that DAB is of superior quality proves the power of propaganda and just how silly most people are.
- After DSO they will have the bandwidth to improve quality and I believe that will be the case for tv.
Howard - there is no comparison - digital tv is far, far superior. You should perhaps get a new better 'box' if you have reception problems. I have had varying quality from different boxes over the years. My present Humax PVR is first class, the best picture (and recordings) yet... The LG tv digital reception is not far behind but I dont tend to watch through the in-built tuner. - bought a new television recently with freeview built in barry.
brilliant picture and sound quality except for four channels where the pictures are wobbly.
the radio stations are with with low quality sound too. - Might be the TV howard. My PVR provides excellent picture and sound on all channels. True some are better than others, a lot of the 'minor' digi channels do broadcast at a lower quality and, of course, a lot of the source material that is repeated on these channels is poor as well. I am recording Poirot off ITV3 currently and these older programmes from late 80's early 90's are a lower quality source.
One thing that does annoy me though is that my PVR and TV combination cannot automatically correct picture ratios so I have to keep manually altering them for older 'square' shaped material, then back again. Poirot is not exactly thin in the first place but being stretched to fill the screen makes it unwatchable. I keep playing with different combinations of settings but just cant find one that works properly. My previous PVR switched the screen shape perfectly every time - but ws not as good in other respects. - David Cameron will choose any policy which a: he thinks he will get away with with the least flak and b: find himself deluded into believing by the last person he spoke to which happens to be a very small coterie of the very rich and famous.
I mean, if a wind turbine salesman can convince him to install a propellor onto the side of his house what hope is there for the man?
As for the big issue I always refuse to buy one of the magazines as I'm very suspicious that the money earned doesn't indeed end up being spent on fairtrade organic produce and books on improving ones lot. - philip
i never but the big issue because the seller locally has spent time inside for flogging class a drugs.
it rather miffed me that a gypsy chap from eastern europe took over his spot and became a cult figure then was ousted when colin was released. - Anyway back to the politics. It seems that the front bench is increasingly being seen as the Keystone cops of British politics. First Huhne, then Greg Barker, today Gove, a little while ago Grayling and perhaps the worst of all (barring Huhne and Barker) is Kenneth let them all out Clarke.
It's all rather embarrassing really - all this in such a short space of time since the election. Gaffe after gaffe after gaffe.
I think every Parliamentary session should start with that funny Benny Hill music to lighten the proccedings. It might serve to take our minds off of what is turning out to be the most inept Government since the last one. - DAB very flaky in Deal. Only works on third floor of house and susceptible to atmospheric conditions. Not impressed so far!
- Post DSO a boost to the signal will help that Bob.
Personally, if I want radio I access it via Freeview on the tv or through the pc. - Barry that's the point - radio via freeview, the tv or through the pc is not DAB. It's a different format and is indeed excellent. What is the problem is that DAB (digital audio broadcasting) is well known by those without a build up of wax in their ear canal to be an inferior way of broadcasting. Ed Vaizey was on the airwaves today and made various assertions about DAB which would make Alistair Campbell seem like Mother Teresa. Either he has been very badly briefed or has his portfolio dumped on him and is trying to sell the damned thing the best way he can ie. talk complete cobblers. Another failed front bencher. Doh!
- with you there philip, i got conned into buying one of the dab radios.
never mind the country on the whole is not buying enough of them for the authorities to cut off the am and fm frequencies 2015 as planned. - An interesting post there, Barry. It brings back to my memory the idea of local Council economy boards that would see the local councils re-introducing lost factory that New Labour closed down and sent abroad, with training programmes for young local people to learn basic factory work and trades. At the end of the day, Barry, you will be fully agreeing with what I wrote then, as there is no alternative! What you are desiring, is practically what I was writing too, that local authority should have more authority locally, with much less State-centralisation.
It would also mean that a local Council would have to dedicate its efforts to its local community, and not to the economic problems of 90 percent of Europe!
- The ban on eu bashing prevents me from going furhter.
- Alexander I do not think there is a ban on Eu membership so you can carry on,unless the boss has told you not to.
- ermmmm no..there is no ban on EU bashing...just some restraint was requested from you Alexander on repetitive ethnic bashing. There were complaints....
- There seems to be something wrong with the posting apparatus today, as I can't get a post through on the Blog.
- You just did Alexander!!
I have found a problem sometimes with the anti-spam settings not letting me post certain things. The prblem has always been the settings. - Yeah, yeah a list of policy objectives that nobody could argue with. However the fly in the ointment is that Chris seven houses Huhne has still managed to hold onto his job (a misnomer shurely?) in the ministry of not much energy and bedwetting.
That's the strange thing about the list of ideas above - nothing, nothing at all about climate change. Now how can this be so? Is it that they no longer believe in the scam and have conveniently left out all reference to rising polar bears and kidney stones or is it that they intend to introduce even more slealth taxes and increases in our energy bills in the hope that we fools might not notice them what with so many problems that affect life in this country?
Well, I for one favour the latter. Cameroon is still wedded to the madcap green utopia that some clown managed to turn his simple mind towards probably during a late one listening to Snow patrol or Radiohead but like the middle aged man who harks back to his adolescence in order that he feels that there is a cause to fight, something to believe in he finds himself in the same old enescapable loop of bizarre and warped beliefs.
Someone tell him the world has moved on and we face a crisis not seen for many a year. Dave old son do the decent thing like most other men of your age nowadays and get yerself a tattoo. "I was wrong to believe Al gore" on the forehead for starters and then work down to give yourself added credibility with say, "What was I thinking when I gave Chris Huhne one of the most important jobs in Government?"
Anyhow, as I said earlier, unfortunately Chris Huhne is still in office.
Not a good week. - ..........Oh and I should add that I have just watched an episode of Torchy the battery boy on youtube. It was horrible, horrible I tell you - Torchy the battery boy has a lamp fixed to his forehead and do you know what? It's a climate guzzling, carbon making, polar bear rising, Mount Killimanjaro ice depleting incandescent bulb in the holder.
It's awful, truly awful.
Just as our precious children have been (thankfully) shielded from the perils of forth hand smoke in advertisments and references to nicotine in films and television programmes I think we should make a stand here and now and ban this most evil of childrens programmes from youtube.
I shall be putting my grave concerns in writing now to our beloved lack of electricity and rising sea ice minister Mr. Chris Huhne after completing this appeal to you all.
Goodnight.
God save us all. - Philip, you need to put your obsessions away and look to the broader picture.
The list above is by no means controversial. There are many who actually believe that high spending, centrally controlling government is actualy good. Hard to believe but a fact, Batty Hatty and her mates for example. - Sorry, mean't uncontroversial, not controversial in the second sentence below.....
- So you are suggesting that most of the new intake of Tory backbenchers are obsessives Barry? Do you consider the thought of higher taxes, higher energy bills, increased costs on British industry giving India and China an unfair competitive advantage, ugly and useless windfarms spoiling the countryside, billions being pumped into ridiculous green initiatives and therefore wasted as merely an obsession?
Hmmmn I thought that it was every good Tories duty to expose waste and try to do something about it but then again I could be wrong.
My "obsession" is nothing of the sort. I could choose other issues to highlight the fact that the Tories have lost their way under David Cameron but climate change is a more than suitable vehicle to undertake this task.
So I could point out Camerons obsession with academies and his hatred of grammar schools. I could also his bonkers plan to let GPs run the health service and I could point out the scandal that is suggesting the public get involved in scrapping laws introduced under labour which is merely a case of lies and spin as they have no intention of letting the public have their say in that regard.
So while the word controversial rolls off the tongue as easily as the phrase We must save the planet meanwhile Rome burns as Cameron learns to play the fiddle. - What immediately devalues your post Philip, is your comment that Cameron 'hates grammars' that is not true and has no basis of fact.
as for the rest, yes it is obsessive, completely obsessive. - "inverse class warriors".
"delusional"
"splashing around in the shallow end of the educational debate"
" an electoral albatross"
"clinging on to outdated mantras that bear no relation to the reality of life"
"Selective education was "unpopular with parents. They don't want children divided into successes and failures at 11"
" there would be "no return" to the 11-plus exam or more new grammars"
And then this.......
. ‘I will accept that I got it wrong in the row on grammar schools. They are excellent schools, all 164 of them, and under the Conservative Party they will prosper and flourish".
Yes you have a point indeed Mr. Cameron does indeed like grammar schools but the question has to asked - for how long exactly? - the issue of gps taking more control of things is a controversial one.
i go for the idea of more hospital type services available at the local surgery, but doubt that many doctors will go for the administration side of things.
i think a trial run by willing gp's is the answer. - What is interesting is that significant elements of this reform were proposed early in the life of the last government (1998 I believe) but were torpedoed by Brown.
- What do readers think of the odds of the smoking ban being repealed? Nicky Clegg says that he wants to repeal laws which, according to his criteria
a: erode civil liberties
b: regulations that stifle the way charities and businesses work
c: laws that are not required and which are likely to see law-abiding citizens criminalised.
Well it seems to this fella that the smoking ban fits all three of the above criteria and is due for repeal.
What are the chances eh?
Hmmn. Not much I reckon - fascists (health fascists) tend to find weasel ways of explaining away their ulterior motives in respect to where they really stand in terms of ones freedom.
The word hypocricy and dullard come to mind when dealing with the famed tea boy Clegg in this matter but hey that might sound obsessive to some. - Totalkly wrong Philip
a: Those of us who do not smoke would have our civil liberties damaged as we would not be able to enjoy a pint in a public house of our choice without being assaulted by the waste products of inconsiderate smokers.
b: No, it may mean that smokers cannot inflict pain andpollution on others but this is not stifling to businesses.
c: This is required smokers generally are selfish and inconsiderate to non-smokers they have shown this by their past actions and their continued aggitation to inflict their habit on us who do not indulge.
Smokers are free to smoke as long as they keep their smoke to themselves. I have no problems with people killing themselves when in sound mind.
Incidentally, I am not a health fascist, far from it, smoking is simply a nasty and unpleasant habit that, in my case, makes my eyes sting and my clothes stink disgustingly. Thats enough for me regardless of the health inmplications. - barry i am a smoker and dont consider myself selfish,inconsiderate.but i do find having to go outside for a smoke anti social at the best of times just to keep the minoraty happy.the bill should i repeat should be repealed as soon as possable.if you dont like people smoking dont go near them,oh and by the way have i ever smoked while i have spoken to you in the street.
- Barry, inadvertantly you prove my point. If many, many people voted on the issue for the anti-smoking law to be repealed and in fact turned out to be among the most popular voted to disappear from the statute books Clegg would still refuse to do so making a mockery of his wish to let the public have a say on which laws they would like to see repealed. The only law him and his cronies would like to see repealed are not the ones drawn from the proleteriat but from a list already compiled at liblabcon HQ.
His prejudice towards smokers is somewhat out of kilter with his views on the legalisation of drugs.
I must admit I would like to see tofu eating banned but that's another story.
Such are the pitfalls of falling into bed with these types. - Smoking is a disgusting anti-social habit that its addicts would be better off indulging in private and away from public gaze, a bit like some of the weirder sexual practises some adopt.
- i wonder what weird sexual practices the average smoker gets up to.
maybe we should start a thread on the subject? - No Howard the two don't go together. You're supposed to enjoy a cigarette after sex or at least that's what used to happen in the films or at least films up until a few years ago until they started raising the certificate if the film contained scenes of smoking.
I tried combining the two once and ended up with a very nasty burn on ........well let's just say it bloomin hurt. - i am still bemused, one sees people smoking in the street, i have yet to see anyone with their trousers around their ankles being given a pasting by miss whiplash outside marks and spencers.
- No you have to hang around those poundshops for that sort of thing Howard.
Actually I was amazed earlier during Pmqs when some Mp or another asked Mr. Cameron to take down the Facebook tribute page to Raoul Moat. His response was to promise to talk Mark Zuckerberg and ask him to remove it. Anyone who knows anything must realise that there is no way on this Earth that Zuckerberg would dream of doing anything like that unless the page contravened local (national ) laws. His answer showed his ignorance of such things as well as making him appear a little stupid when put straight on the issue.
As an aside, Harriet Harman has a cheek hasn't she accusing David of not answering her health questions. Pot Kettle black?
- I have said this many times,I do not smoke but think it is unfair to make the public that do smoke stand outside,in the old days they had smoking rooms in bars etc so lets go back to that,+I do not like to walk pass pubs with my wife when lots are standing outside and have to hear all the bad words coming out.
- Not necessarily smokers Howard, LOL
Vic - but they dont have to stand outside, they could just not smoke. Their choice. - barry,how about non smokers standing outside,they could smoke and stand inside.
vic,you are right there.the worst place is a certain pub near the market square its enough to put the most hardend person of walking past let alone tourists. - Thank you Brian,Again the working mans night out is a pint, a go at darts or pool and a smoke,and I can not fine nothing wrong in that at all.we in the UK have been doing it for 100years .and now we find most pubs closing down or have to stay open 24/7 to try and make a living,and lot of this can be put down to (1) stores,and fuel outlets selling beer at less than a pub can, and this law on non-smoking.As I said before I do not drink anymore and have not smoked for well over 45years,but I loved going into a pub after work talking to my mates and playing darts or pool, in most case,s now you do not see it and we are no better off for that.I think we should go back to what it was 20years ago and a bar and a room put in for the non-smoker.And no smoking where there is food being served.
- You go to a pub to buy a drink Brian, not to smoke. The fact that some drug addicts have to light a cigarette every 5 minutes is a very sad state of affairs.
Vic - How would you like it if at the next Forum do I threw my beer over you and others around me? That is exactly what cigarette addicts have been doing to people for many years with their smoke, it is an exact parallell. Neither action is socially acceptable. - BARRY,I said that there should be a non-smokers bar,Why can not landlords put up a sigh saying smokers only ,we put up the non-smoking sighs all over the place,and it is a fact that alot of non-smokers not not use the pubs anyway,Drinking is a drug anyway Barry you only have to look around the town to see that with all the drinking in the streets ETC,it is not always about smoking.
- Vic - drink does not affect other people in the way a single cigarette can discomfort others around. Non-smoking areas never did work very well so better just not to have smoking.
There are no virtues to tobacco, nothing at all is good about it.
Smoking is anti-social and should no longer be regarded as acceptable public behavior. That way, lowering the profile and overall exposure of smoking, fewer and fewer will take up the habit.
I would also ban cigarettes from public display in shops plus a total ban on them being dispensed from machines. - barry,i like to have the choice to smoke or not when i have a drink and being dictated to by nanny non smokers and goverment.as for smoking being anti soical i dont think so its the people who dont that are.for example when working at tilmanstone salads a few years ago they built a new factory near eythorne,in there wisdom they built a large non somking room and put in a small smoking room,and guess wot the smoking room was packed standing room only while the non smoking room was empty.not sure about now but thats how it was then.
- Brian - you exhibit exactly the kind of attitude that demonstrates why the smoking ban must stay. The arrogance of many smokers to think they should have the right to indulge their habit to the discomfort of others is simply appalling.
By all means indulge but not to the discomfort and threat to the health of others. - Smoking is a wonderful thing. I say that not to be provocative but it has a long history dating back thousands of years. The harm smoking does is a result of people smoking too much. Moderation in everything being the watchword.
Alcohol is another wonderful drug which millions of people enjoy every single minute of the day all over the world. However it is not true to suggest that alcohol has no deleterious affect on other people - far from it. It is the cause not only of extremely serious health disorders but results in cases of violence both low level and extreme.
The power of propaganda is such that smoking is now deemed to be an evil and something that the devil incarnate would choose as a pastime. One of the biggest lies put forward by the health fascists is that of second hand smoke (Oh no what about that bloke on record breakers???) and the other is the myth of setting a healthy alcohol limit as prescribed by the government which is a figure litterally plucked from thin air.
I think people should just relax and let others enjoy things like smoking which do no real harm in moderation. After all one wouldn't think of banning something like burger bars, kebab shops and sweet shops which according to the "experts" damage peoples health? Oh hang on some politicians actually do. - Philip - if I were to be sat next to you and you had just one cigarette I would suffer. It would be deply unpleasant getting your smoke in my eyes and making my clothes stink.
I, on the other hand, might drink one pint in front of you and you would not be affected at all.
A lot of drink is a problem, indeed, but responsible drinkers harm no-one and can enjoy a positive side of alcohol. The only way a responsible smoker can be considerate towards others is not to smoke in their company and there is no positive side, even moderate smoker damages his/her health.
On the latter point many annuity companies actually put their money on it by providing enhanced rates to smokers as impared lives... even low level smokers get better annuity rates because their life expectancy is shortened.... - smokers pay more tax than non smokers,so the smoking ban should go so that people can get on with there life without to much disruption.i allways find non smokers arrogant and rude.
- Whats tax got to do with it?
Brian - you are demonstrating once again why smokers cannot be trusted to do the right thing. This attitude that you have a right to breathe smoke into other people's lungs is exactly why legistlation is essential.
You really dont realise how revolting your habit is to others, or simply dont care. - Hang on there Brian, I am on your side and a non-smoker and you are now telling me I am arrogant and rude,sorry I can not agree with you on that,your wording is not that good.
- tax has everything to do with it,if you got your own way and everybody stopped smoking there would be a large hole in the goverments earnings which would mean the goverment would have to find other ways of clawing back lost revenue.
- Brian - I really dont care if people smoke as long as they do it away from other people who do not want to indulge. I am quite happy for mugs to keep paying the extra taxes that also curtail their lives so less State Pensions are paid out. I and many others do not want to be forced to indulge in such a filthy activity by way of exposure in pubs and restaurants.
- The thing is that pubs in this country have provided an excellent place to enjoy a drink, good company and a whole host of other things. From day one when the first ale house or drinking den first opened centuries ago you can bet your last pound that some of the customers enjoyed a good puff on a pipe. Everyone did it (well not really but you see what I mean) and this turned into a grand tradition that is the English pub.
Then over the past couple of years the authoritains, the veritable puritans from a bygone age decided that they would protect the peasants by banning them from smoking tobacco. Ironically these latter day zealots spent very little time in public houses 'cept when their parents sent them off to university and let little Tristram and Tamara experience the world. When they eventually reached their ambition in either politics or in some field where they would hold some sway over other peoples lives they refused to venture into their local pub and drank gallons of their favoured wine in the safety of their sitting room with friends who share the same type of Christian name and congratulated eachother for having saved mankind from itself.
Well excuse me We were there well before you turned up and were quite happy in our ignorance!
They didn't even give Landloads the opportunity to reserve a seperate bar away from the "mine's a half of bitter please bar steward" merchants who may use the pub on a regular basis once a year from those who really know how to enjoy a good pint.
If they really felt that strongly about these things surely they would start by banning travel by public transport buses which spew out the worst of all particulates equivalent to a good pack of 400 weights. - barry
myself and many others have put forward the simple idea that pubs can choose to be smoking or non smoking, potential staff and customers can then make a choice which type of pub they can enter.
vic
brian was not having a pop at you, i think he meant to say anti smokers rather than non smokers. - Thats Ok Howard it was just a joke.
- howard,you may be right there.people like barry is anti smoking,anti eu and the list gos on.need i say anymore.
- You lot simply miss the point. Stuff the history of smoking. This is simply about what a horrible and disgusting habit it is.
Why the hell should I, or anyone be expected to put up with breathing other people's filthy smoke in a pub.
Get over it people. Maybe I will give Brian and one or two others the same treatment they like to dish out to others, throw a pint of beer over them (dont worry, I will make sure its only lager or chemical beer.....not proper stuff)
But still, I should be grateful, the more this argument has gone on the more the need for the law to intervene is proven. - Barry,sorry mate but you sound like a old 78"record.both my mum and dad died because of smoking my dad was only 51years old, I hate smoking and the smell of it so I stay away from smokers or aske them to put it out,if not I walk away from it. When I was a med/ ibin the Army I had to help out in cuting open a man of a history of smoking and inside all his pipes etc were full up and that was cause by smoking,but I still think if they still wish to kill themselfs smoking it is ok with me.
- Then you should know better Vic. I would like to see you ask a bunch of smokers in a pub not to smoke because you are a non-smoker....
- 'I am quite happy for mugs to keep paying the extra taxes that also curtail their lives so less State Pensions are paid out.'
May-be also runnung up and down paying a mortgage three times the house's real value! - I am not happy about these things, Barry, not at all!
- barry
the answer is painfully simple.
do not enter a smoking pub. - I agree with what you say about the Facebook question Barry. I do think that when questioned at question time he should have merely stated how stupid the support site for Moat was and left it at that. By going any further makes him appear ignorant of the basic fundamentals of the internet which include free speech however distastless unless it breaks the law in the country where the original content originated. Big subject but essentially a balanced summation by you.
- Howard, so the smokers who spout on about freedom then, see freedom as a one-way street? Either put up with our smoke or stay away.... Wgat kind of freedom is that?
You are free to smoke as long as you do so where it does not affect anyone else.
So we are a bit more civilised now Howard than a few years ago, its those with the filthy habit who are expected to abstain from their addiction in places where it can adversely affect others.
- barry, that would be a waste of good beer whatever kind you care to chuck,pour or whatever.why cant you acept that wheather you somke or not its a part of everyday life.so try and grow up and live with the fact that there will be smokers where ever you go.
- Barry why should I not aske them?I have do it before and they said sorry and put them out,If they had not done that,by the way it was at a meeting before the ban,I would have just got up and walked out .
- Brian - perhaps you are the one who should grow up. This is about whether smokers should indulge their craving in pubs and restaurants. The answer is no.
Vic - so you have wandered around a whole pub asking smokers to put their cigarettes out....!!! - Barry I did not say that,read it again mate and do try and get it right this time.
- barry,i am grown up enough to make my mind up wheather i want to smoke or not.as for pubs i would like to see it allowed again,as for restaurants i couldnt care less wheather i can or not.
- hardly a political blog now, more like a slanging match over something totally unrelated to politics.
- howard,its a debate on the smoking laws,slanging matchs i will leave to the polictcos.
- I think everyone is missing the point here. The smoking ban highlights the folly of the governments plan to ask the people (we, the proles) which laws they would like to see repealed. They even spent money on a website in order to encourage us to put forward our ideas. But in reality this is a faux consultation. They have no intention of really letting us loose on any parliamentary activity 'cept to encourage us to vote them in every five years.
Unbanning smoking in pubs is one of the most popular measures listed on the website. Regardless of your views on the supposed health issues surrounding second hand smoke (no danger as it happens) it highlights my point. They have no intention of any repealling of this act and they have said so. This makes a mockery of the whole exercise. Ironically banning smoking in pubs has actually encouraged smoking amongst the young as they see those partaking in this activity outside pubs as something "grown-up" and dangerously edgy. Whereas before smoking was undertaken behind closed doors now the only place one sees this evil act is outside pubs and in high streets up and down the country.
Let's leave smoking aside and consider other laws which many would like to see repealed or changed or reintroduced.
Capital punishment, which I personally find abhorrent, is a popular measure which many would like to see reintroduced. The likelyhood of this happening? Absolutely zero.
Millions would like to see the end of the CCTV culture where we are watched hundreds of times per day to no effect but lead to a further erosion of our privacy. Will they turn that ship around? No way Pedro.
So in the end this discussion isn't really about smoking but the ludicrous spin Prime Minister Clegg has tried to dupe us into, namely pretending to hand power back to the people.
Here's another I read on their website calling for the repeal of the extradition treaty with the United States. Erm, nope, don't think so computer says no.
It just ain't gonna happen. - i always assumed that the public consultation was just a p.r exercise designed to let us believe that our views are being listened to.
populist measures like that are rarely genuine. - quite possably howard,they ask we tell then they say up yours and get on to do what they like.so much for people power.
- I`m a non smoker, and I`m not an anti smoker. Our house has been a non smoking residence for the 24 years we`ve been here. I had two precious girls. Any workmen etc have always been allowed to smoke in the garden. I smoked up until the early 80s, because my freinds smoked. Not more than 2 or 3 a day though, unless I was out, and never indoors. I never took it down, so I never got addicted to it. I visited pubs etc, with no second thoughts, but when I started on the railway 22 years ago, I found that almost everyone smoked, and after a short while of being inside lobby`s and locomotive cabs while I was learning the job, I found that cigarette smoke was increasingly irritating my eyes and making them water, and my throat became sore. No mistake here it was the smoke. After a matter of a few months, once I was out working on my own, I just became completely anti smoking, not for banning it, but only regarding my personal experiences. These days, I would go into a pub if there was smoking, but if the air was thick with it, I`d come out again for the reason`s above. I would not though, want to sit down to eat food and someone start smoking next to me. Nothing to do with anti smoking, I just wouldn`t want the smoke with the food. Plain and simple to me. Maybe I can use this page to thank either British Railways, or the National Union of Railwaymen, of whom my father was a member, (British Railways owned the ferries then), or whoever gave seamen the right to buy 100s of cigarette`s at crew price. My dad was practically a chain smoker, and I was at his bedside when he was writhing in agony, and died in my arms at home from lung cancer 35 years ago. He looked like an inmate from Belsen. A sight never to be forgotten. Sorry dad, I can`t turn back the clock and talk you out of them.
- Colin
Very Moving..I really can't add anything to that other than unlike todays generation that have been warned about the health risks your loving Dad knew no better...smoking was supposed to calm one's nerves and was issued freely to squaddies during both wars. - surely dormant bank accounts belong to someone, how can this money be taken away?
- In theory Howard. There is a lot of money in accounts for which banks cannot trace legal ownership. In many cases it amounts to a few pence or pounds and has fallen through the system and been forgotton by someone.
In the unlikely event a legal owner comes forward then they might still claim the cash, bearing in mind that more accounts will have become 'dormant' to fill any gap. I am not sure what the exact criteria will define a dormant account but such a clear criteria needs to be agreed.
Insurance companies have the same problem with policyholder cash and two insurance companies have looked at reallocation of this money, with one going ahead with proposals. - i see what you are saying there barry.
i know for a fact that i have a small amount(approx £100) in a building society account, i moved house never notified the building society as i had not used the account for a long time.
i cannot even remember which one it was, i'm sure it got taken over by another one anyway.
the account would have not been actioned for about 15 years now.
i suppose there must be many others. - I believe that 15 years with no contact is the actual criteria. You would never be blocked from getting this money, with interest, by these proposals should you be able to prove legal ownership. Email me the name of the original BS and I will see if I can find out the present holder for you Howard.
This is based on a law established by the last government by the way. - I thought Barry the first company to be privatised under the Thatcher government was Amersham International a very succesful company whose shares were sold way below what their market value was actually worth.
- The first major one was the NFC Alan. I dont recall the exact timing of Amersham but in size it certainly was not one of the bigger privatisations and quite a modest affair. I believe that business went to Kodac, now I think GE Health and followed a very different model to later privatisations without a staff buy-out or public share offer.
As for the value of shares, that is always a dificult one to judge. The value is what the market is willing to pay. Invariably when a company is floated (not speaking of privatisation here) despite the best judgement of the company advisers, provided it is a well run company, there is a surge in the price when it initially hits the market and in retrospect you can always claim they were under-valued.
In floating (or privatisation) of a company it is better to be under than over priced provided the seller is happy with the price which is based on professional advice.
The whole point of privatisations was to free the businesses to commercial forces. There is always a risk premium for the buyer in this. These were often loss making subsidised concerns so a risk premium was quite in order.
Losses ended and tax being paid instead, from a successful floatation, made a real bargain for the taxpayer. - Barry you are not geting alot of support with your own blog,time to come over to the UKIP one and make room for someone to try a new angle for the blues,they need it.
- 26550 hits in 10 months Vic, not bad at all.....
As for UKIP, a sideshow. - Thats did not come from your blog mate,it came because the reds let the UK down and the voters are giving you lot a try again,and time will tell if they done right or not.I was talking to Dovers MP only last week,and to me he did not seem that happy at Westminster,I think reading beween the lines he might just pack it all in and go back to what he was doing in the city, I could be wrong but wait and see.
- I think your imagination is running wild there Vic...
- I do not think so Barry but as I said wait and see time will tell. As I said many times before I think outside the box.
- i find it difficult to believe that charlie would do a runner after such a short time.
most certainly he would have found that a lot of his early efforts were nullified by the circus that is westminister, much as many others before him would have done.
however, having fought elections before, he will be determined to leave his mark. - dose westminster have to be a two ring circus.
- VIC
That's an interesting post, all that hard work to become an MP only to cut and run.
He could probably earn more in London, so wouldn't surprize me to see him go.
COR another bye election - Really Keith - you and your wishful thinking, dream on
- Frankly I wouldn't blame the poor fellow for leaving. Let's face it with odd fellows such as Chris Huhne placed in such a high position what hope is there for anyone with real integrity which I'm sure charlie certainly possesses. Yeah, yeah, yeah I know what's coming: "Your an obsessive" but having read tonight that there will be no prospect of any nuclear builds in the foreseable future it leads me to the inescapable conclusion that we are well and truly screwed as a nation. No electricity except for a few windmills and the odd solar panel I spotted on my way to Dymchurch. But hey this is David Cameron showing the world, leading the way, shaming the Chinese, demonstrating his dream for a bright, green future. What a fool. And Barry calls me an obsessive! Ha!
So no more blogs Barry or at least intermittent at best I'm afraid. No more industry. Blackouts, brownouts, homework by candlelight but hey the Planet needs saving right?
Personally I look forward very much to the next general election when We can vote Labour back in. OK they messed up big time and I mean big time but this bunch of clowns who reckon they represent Conservatism in this country deserve nothing more than kicking out.
I mean what sort of toady grovels to Obamy and tells the world that during world war 2 we were the junior partner? I mean come on. That is just too embarrasing for words.
Goodbye Dave, goodbye Chris, goodbye the useless Gove, goodbye the useless Spelman, goodbye an ineffectual list of cabinet minister amateurs. - give them time philip, you are probably right about some of the ministers we have seen in action.
no doubt there will be changes in personnel as time moves along, the important thing is that we get stability for a decent period. - Philip - During the election campaign I blogged every day and have now gone back to my normal schedule of about 3 times a week.
Yes, Philip you certainly seem obsessed with Chris Huhne. Not my kettle of fish but sadly we do have a coalition and not a Conservative government.
The 'un-conservative' measures that get announced do annoy me and I do sometimes feel that too many concessions are being granted but at least this government is a darned sight better than what we had before. - Modern military strategy has to be based on reality. Many countries are allies, therefore strategy should be centred on favouring good mutual understanding with these allies, who include Russia. The construction of very expensive war ships and war-planes in large numbers is outdated. China too is an ally, it's enough to consider the commerce between China and the west.
Who on Earth all these hundreds od warships and thousands of warplanes produced in Britain, Russia, the Usa and Western Europe and China - all alies - should protect the world against, baffles me! And what the Conservative party wants to do with yet another modern nuclear missile fllet of submarines goes far beyond my comprehension.
The idea of wiping out cities or villages with nuclear missiles should be combated, and I strongly dissaprove of the nuclear misile strategy. There are too many nuclear missiles in the world, we certainly don't need more of them, and the best Warships of all times are Britannia's Sailing Ships with the Trident on the Sail: they will win any War! We can only have allies with such a Fleet!
- Look back 28 years and you can see the foolishness of your thinking on defence Alexander.
- Barry! I am looking ahead, not living in a dream-world of Cold War which is long over! I think you still believe that the Cold War is on! get a grip, man! people of today want to see and hear speaches about international Church Alliances and cultural manifestations between different ethnic groups, international friendship, collaboration, and not be harangued with plans to build more and more nuclear missiles for tens of billions of pounds and warships and warplanes by their hundreds for further tens of millions of pounds, and these expenses multiplied by each state that builds them! People were of the opinion that the Cold war ended and that China too is an ally, so what ARE you actually trying to propagate, Barry?
Can I spell out for you that I don't want any wars!!! - War! What is it you're good for? Absolutely, erm everything. Let's face it war does have its uses. In fact it turns out it is a very useful thing indeed. It certainly helps to boost a flagging economy in terms of providing a stimulus to a nations industry and research and development. Witness the American economy during world war 2 and ours leading up to that conflict. Longer term, however, it can cause an economy problems due to the fact that much of the money used to oil the wheels is borrowed. Our country makes a sizable amount in the development of weapons sold worldwide - hey someone's gotta do it otherwise someone else will regardless of the moral questions so we may as well profit from it.
War, or at least the implied threat of danger from outside is also useful for Governments as a tool to control the population. There are too many examples of this to list here but aspects of the war on terrorism still have far reaching effects here in Britain as well as other places all over the world. I'm not for a moment suggesting that war is a good thing but like death and taxes it's rather inevitable no matter how much we would like to wish it away.
Regarding our own nuclear capability I think that for the foreseeable future we have no choice but to provide some semblance of nuclear strikeback ability. There are still states out there in the wild who could pose a threat to the, forgive me erm, free world so let's be on the safe side eh?
Better brokeback Britain than broken Britain I say. - philip
have you considered applying for membership, you can then post on any subject. - What I thought was, Philip, that with so many allies in the world, in Europe, in Aisa, it doesn't make sense for each alied country (for example Britain, France, USA, Russia, China, Germany, Italy, Spain) to have each an enormous arsenal of hundreds or even thousands of modern warplanes. As for nuclear missles, I thought there were enough of them to blow up the world twenty three thousand ninehunded ans six times over and again. You lost me there!
- Thanks for the invitation Howard I might well do that. As for all the countries holding huge piles of armaments Alexander, it does make sense really. After all it's the foremost duty of any Government to defend the people they represent - the foremost duty. Therefore it would be folly to outsource your defence capabilities to another nation although some states do. I mean would you feel any safer trusting your countries defences to, say, the European union where any impending threat had to be fought on the realiance on the gravy train clowns in Brussels? The league of nations was a failure and so to the united nations in terms of war and other, er, non-war related items such as the (obsessive moment coming) the world weather heh heh.
It's all to do with making friends with the big boys and forming alliances with those who you consider will help you out when things get tough. It's not perfect but so far it's kept this country safe. When the liberals tell you that there is no need for nukes avert your gaze and supress a snigger. These clowns know very little about real politik having lived the luxury of a generation of peace in their country. Strangely they have a prejudice for nuclear energy, a policy dating back to when scares were rife surrounding such issues.
Hey ho it's a complicated world but that's what makes it so much fun nes pas? - Oh
My
God
I nearly had a Huhne moment but I shall desist. You can read it in tomorrows Telegraph.
Phew, that was close. So very, very close - Well as Barry has his blog currently running on arms and strategy policy, I feel free to continue the discusiion. No, Philip, I do not agree! The UKIP are not for the e.u., which you evidently are also not for, however, the western Europeam defence forces and our own defence forces are allied, as are our peoples in general, so it's not a question of e.u. here, but of being among allies who most certainly would not go to war with each other, and which include Russia, the USA and China and many more countries. I mean allies in the practical sense of taking for granted that the mentioned countries would not provoke each other. So why does each one need such an enormous arsenal and always more and more sophisticated nuclear missile systems? Far better if we - the allies - agree to stop selling ams or armament technology to other countries, and reduce our own armaments. Who on Earth wants a war with us anyway? No country wants to invade Britain, and if we can get our soldiers out of that butchery war in Afghanistan, where they are being heniously sacrificed in the name of bombing democacy to power, then we could have more time and energy to sort our own economic problems out.
If it is for a future of nuclear missile building, then there are already a few parties in Britain who do that and stand for that, but the UKIP does not preach nuclear missile strategy, and so I would advise you, Phiilp, to consider what it would mean to fire off a nuclear missile and destroy the lives of millions of people in one fail swoop! If you think I am right, then consider supporting the UKIP.
We have problems on our mind, we want to resolve them, and not create new problems by spnding hundreds of billions on more missiles and never-ending war-planes. Furthermore, our Country is bankrupt, and yet New Labour and Tories have ben making military spending projectsas as if we were still in the seventies with heaps of money to throw about. Since then, Philip, the Cold War has ended, and it's about time that Blair, who loved continuing with new nuclear missile projects and sending in waves of planes to bombard, and that what he left behind, was swept out of our system, namely his love of building more nuclear missiles and bombarding people. We want a new era, with prosperity, not to slump down into the old war-monguering days! Think it over! - And, Barry, a Sailing Ship of Britannia's Fleet, built of Wealden timber and bearing the Trident on the Sail. Note the Red Saint George Cross flying proudly at the Mast!
With such Ships we will win any War, and many will cheer us on! - Barry, if you recognise that the antiquated strategies of New Lbour, which the Tories and Libs have decided to continue upon, wll only cost our Country massive expenses and further debts, and that our Port of Dover belongs not to private owners and should not go to any either, then consider coming over to the UKIP. We could meet at the White Horse over a cider!
- not wishing to be picky alexander but the flag of st george could not be flown over a fleet representing great britain.
- Off topic I know but something has been troubling me lately. Why on earth should I give my hard earned pay on some bloke to cycle around in a circle in order to get to the finishing point faster than everybody else? Come to think of it why should I, we all pay, for someone to run 100 metres in a race lasting ten seconds (ten seconds!!!!!! I mean blimey it takes me longer to sneeze) just because they are British?
I don't mind people taking part in sports and all that but to get me and everyone else to subsidise their hobby is simply wrong isn't it?
Just saying that's all. - i have no idea what you are talking about philip, please explain.
- Sorry Howard just ignore. I was bringing up how the taxpayer is supposed to subsidise team GB for what is basically a set of games which is supposed to unite nations and encourage couch potatoes to take up exercise. It's a waste. A waste of money, a waste of good airtime on the telly and all round a pointless exercise, the olympics that is but I may as well bang my head against a brick wall. Oh hang on that's got possibilities as an elite sport come 2012.
Sorry it was a slightly pointless post. It's been a long day. - I agree with you Philip.
- Lol. I'm not sure what you agree with Barry my main point or when I said that my last was a slightly pointless post. However, I agree entirely with you in terms of the lib dem ministers. I suspect that a head of steam is building up from the backwoods men and women from the Tory traditionalists (some describe them as Tory right wingers) and at some point the fuse will blow and the bubble burst. Hey isn't mixing metaphors great fun. The longer this goes on the nastier it will get. Witness, as an example, Ken Clarkes pronouncements on prison and sentencing reform which are completely at odds with most sensible peoples thinking and will only make the public feel less safe. You'rve highlighted more above quite correctly only I think you were too kind to the minister who will serve only to increase our energy bills into the many thousands and lead to the downfall of industry in Britain. As for Featherlite, well what can one say?
- mcvey for me,and thats a cleavage to die for.lol.
- We can agree about that Brian....
She is just as good in real life, maybe better..... - Dear Howard, the Red Saint George Cross is part of the Union Jack, though!
- Good afternoon each and Barry.
This coalition government must be a tremendous boon to you Barry. Giving you plenty of scope to continue your valuable critique of all things Politic.
Even so you still find time and space to chide the poor voter for not being four-square behind you and your dire predictions pre-election, but at least we are now (well) rid of Gordon.
The Lib-Dems can only be seen as an asset to the Blues, but I think I understand your reluctance to admit this fact. The next election cannot be all that far away?
I can hardly wait for the Conference season to begin. It all is bound to resemble an Eric & Ernie Christmas Special, with the Reds playing the Andre Previn role.
P.S.
I have missed you all badly and hope that the transition period has not spoiled things too badly for East Kent. See you again soon. - lookersl;
Its wrong to go on here talking about women in that way.
IT'S About what they both do as MP's that matter.
on the Lib dem fiasco, barryw your right on them all, thats why i said in other postings 18 months.
the cracks are showing, and each day it -gets worse,
The clock is ticking,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - Hello Tom, nice to see you again posting!
- with you now philip.
i think the olympics will be a great opportunity to sell united kingdom plc.
from about two weeks before the start of the recent football world cup every news bulletin showed different aspects of life in south africa, this went on all the way through the tournament.
the same will happen with the olympics, it is up to our business leaders to take advantage of us being on the world stage. - HOWARD;
Hope olympics does do the job, cos if it don't its a costly exercise to get wrong. - Keith - correct its what they do that counts but there is no harm in a bit of eye candy as well is there?
- Rethinking my earlier post in response to your assertion LibDem, asset or liability?.... you do have to consider who actually chose those most honorable members (no I'm joking). The problem lies not with those who Cameron has decided fit to run the various ministries but with the head honcho himself, namely David Cameron.
His problem in a nutshell is that he is uber politically correct to run the Conservative party let alone the Country. I do worry about his policies and the effect they will have on this country over the next few decades and therefore much longer than that. Take for example his appeal to the rest of the EU to let turkey join the club. How does this square with his policies on immigration? If he expects to limit immigration to Britain their inclusion would surely undermine that. Surely the two policies are diametrically opposed but perhaps I'm missing something. Then of course there is the question of Daves stand on the EU and his chest beating pronouncements on refusing to yield any more power to the EU. This is nothing more than cheap posturing and I'm afraid he lacks the real backbone to stand up to the other collegues - none whatsoever. Wait and see news reports on yet more powers and laws affecting us decided in Brussels and Dave will use weasel words to extricate himself from the slings and arrows he so richly deserves.
Sorry but We need another election and the sooner the better. I despise labour but in retrospect it appears that they are more Tory than the administration we are left with at this present time. - i am getting rather confused messages too.
so far this week we have had david cameron in the states talking about the special relationship then visiting turkey and urging that they be admitted to the european union post haste, thus impressing mr obama.
then william hague has been sucking up to the european union and hinting at further integration.
the problem is the two most important powers france and germany have adamantly opposed turkey being admitted.
more importantly two very nice photos of ms mcvey there. - Philip - there is enough Conservative meat in the programme, just.
The LDs are having too great an influence over the EU policy and I am not surprised at that.
At the end of the day DC had little room to manouevre in his selection of ministers. He had to award the LDs a certain proportion of jobs and they clearly have a rather thin talent pool. Indeed 'talent' is too grand a word for them....
The big and most important job here is the economy and it is that which wins and loses elections. Here the coalition is sound.
Putting that right may well secure a Conservative majority and then we should expect to see a more forthright approach more to my (and I suspect your) liking. - I dont know whether Im annoyed more with the Libdems or myself . I foolheartedly believed in Nick Clegg when he promised us a new kind of politics. Okay he was a good salesman, as many believed his message...remember the opinion polls for example. However following their about face on almost every issue in their manifesto, I am now completely against them and figure they have betrayed their voters. Clegg has led them into potential obscurity. So much for that 'new kind of politics'
I dont beleive though BarryW that they are having that great a sway over David Cameron and his EU policy. Cameron has surprised a few of us this week with his embracings of the various european initiatives. I doubt his responses in Turkey and so on could really have been brought about by an enslavement to the Libdems. But I welcome his position, he is encouraging a stronger europe, we saw William Hague do much the same thing. This is the reality of government, as opposed to the all too familiar sabre rattlings of opposition.
That Ms McVey has a lot going for her and no mistake. She is clearly up front about her attributes and her assets are manifold...she could run her eye over my portfolio any day! - BARRYW/PAULB
I don't agree with thre way women spoken about
it's about abilty to me.
Fot me the lib dems will hold to 3rd party)(just) but will bre destroyed at the gen election in 18 months
just hope there collapsed vote doesnt let tories in by default - Yes indeed you are quite right there Keef re women, but and however if you look at Ms McVey's pose you can see she is getting the response she wanted I would guess...clearly titillating and provocative, but of course in the nicest possible way.
I have to be careful I dont offend absolutely half the nation here....lol!
I think we are in agreement about the Libdems. - I think that we,as a nation, were looking ,in hope, for a change and maybe just maybe thought that the coalition could offer that sort of change. As a left winger I am open to change and improvement. I agree with Keef I doubt that the coalition will last.Cable has opened up wounds on immigration whilst Cameron was on an important tour of India...not good by anyones standards of fair play.(even BarryW).
The problem is that Labour are leaderless and therefore not providing a proper opposition and should there be a General Election the Tories would be voted in ,the Lib/Dems totally destroyed and Labour losing yet more seats.
As for Camerons Cuties I have never asked a lady what her political leanings were before trying to woo her with northern charm and plenty of champers!! - Hmmn, another thought occurred to me regarding Daves insistance that Turkey should be allowed to join the European union. If they were given the chance to join would the good folk of Britain have the chance to voice their opinion on the issue by allowing a referendum on whether Turkey should join or not? After all this would have a dramatic effect on the whole dynamic and body politic of the club and therefore, as Dave has promised us in the past, any substantial change would have to have the say-so of us all. There are some countries in the club who have promised a referendum if Turkey indeed seems poised to join.
Perhaps knowing this Dave is merely posturing and is staking his claim on the world stage in order to get himself noticed as a leader. Either way, whatever the reason for his grandstanding I suspect this story is already dead in the water and already being folded into tomorrows chip paper.
- barry
the website told of the innocent afghan civilians that were murdered, stuff denied to us by the nato thought control people.
the information was old, it did not threaten any ongoing battles. - Howard - there is information that betrays the identity of informers - he admits it in the interview and has a lot more material that he intends to leak.
- Good morning each and Barry.
This is a cheap shot, Barry.
The logic that because we cannot bring back the dead we should carry on regardless is insane. The terrible things that happen, for one reason or another, in wartime are always known to some. Are they to hold this knowledge alone?
Perhaps if we had not learned of the death and the circumstances of the death of Ian Tomlinson we would all be happier for that. If we could claim not to have known about the Death Camps in Nazi-Germany, the vast loss of life on the Somme, these wars too could have carried on regardless. Oh, wait a mo. Carry on regardless is just what they did do.
Knowledge is power. It is we who create the life that is to be wasted on the battlefield, it is we who must pay for wars, it is we who must deal with the aftermath of each such conflict. Are we to remain ignorant of what is being done in our name?
If only Wikileaks had a buxsom spokesperson we need not have heard much of the work they do?
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? - Well this is a very interesting one indeed re Wikileaks. Clearly this organisation is set up to offer an alternative view to the one that permeates from Washington, and clearly it has caused quite a universal disturbance this week. At first Washington dismissed it all, brushed it off, but then in the past day or so they got measurably darker with assorted threats and so on....and now there is talk of Taliban reprisals to informants , there wasnt earlier in the week.
Whether this is the Washington spin machine working overtime or not I dont know, but obviously if anyone of western disposition was put at risk then thats very bad.
As a website owner, but of course not on quite the grand scale, I would not have leaked those documents as I believe the establishment status quo should be maintained( i didnt always fee like that!) for many reasons not least the safety of our personnel.
Mr Assange clearly feels very secure in his convictions. Obviously a committed man and obviously committed to leaks. Its not something I would be comfortable living with...just in case it did spill blood. Websites have considerable power these days. - Wikileaks serve an important function in my opinion in attempting to expose certain secrets those with power, influence and too much money for their own good would rather the rest of us proles remained ignorant of. I wouldn't neccessarily agree with the premise that they represent an organisation set up to offer an alternative view, rather an organisation who tries to expose the truth to some extent and hypocricies committed by firms, religious cults and other such things.
In the case of the thousands of leaked data surrounding the war in Afghanistan, as I read the situation, they gave the documents to three respected news outlets as Wikileaks were unable to cope with the huge amount of data within. As you can imagine it would take weeks and an army of journalists to sift through the documents. It seems that much of the blame for any threat to, for example, informers in that region came as a result of those news outlets not redacting the names of those may well have helped the allied forces. Had this been done then there would have been little to complain about really. After all isn't it right that mistakes and unreported deaths of, say, innocent civilians and other aspects of the campaign embarrassing to those in charge be exposed? Surely it's wrong to be complicit in this by keeping our heads down and hoping the "experts" and "those who know better" carry on regardless.
It's a complicated issue and raises questions that are fundamental to what it means to live in an era where news information and news management is rightly under fire.
- Years ago you would have been shot just talking that way.
- thankfully mussolini and hitler are long gone, we live in an era of openness, to a limited extent of course.
- Talking what way Vic?
- Ironically I read tonight the case of an army sniper who, with his family, has been forced to leave the country, install panic alarms at his new house and found his life disrupted after the MOD decided it was a good idea to publish his name and what a jolly good shot he was with his rifle. It appears that he fears for his life from Al Queda.
Strangely enough when I first read about his prowess I did think that naming him might be a mistake. - Oh how I hate having my name listed in the replies one after the other after the other but as I hinted in an earlier post about Big Daves posturing over ceding no more to Europe I draw your attention to the issue of the European Investigation Order.
I'll leave you all to investigate further - Philip you're doing great there. I know Howard mentioned it to you earlier but if you would like to join up as a member let me know. You are doing some interesting posts over here on Barry's Blog and Im sure you would have interesting stuff to add to the other debates on the wider site.
Let me know if you want to by email.... but anyway no probs either way. - You`ve made a very good point there Philip.
In order to give forumites a bit more info` on this matter, I set out below UKIP`s stance on the issue:-
Continental police handover 'a disgrace'
Tuesday, 27th July 2010
UKIP have blasted the Government over its handover of power to Continental police.
"It now appears that Continental police forces really do have the ways to make us talk," said Lord Pearson, the UKIP leader today.
"The fact that Teresa May, the Home Secretary is trying to suggest that defending ancient British liberties as being soft on crime is a disgrace.
"What is also disgraceful is that she has committed Britain to join the European Investigation Order without debate. This is a basic threat to our civil liberties. It allows foreign police forces to demand action from British police forces.
"It will grant foreign police the right to carry out the ‘real time’ interception of communications, monitor a person’s bank account, and demand DNA or fingerprints from a person in Britain.
"What is more as this is a draft agreement; we will not see the final thing, and due to the Lisbon Treaty, when the final version comes out it will be voted on under Qualified Majority Voting at the European Council and thus Britain will not be able to block it if it becomes even worse," said Lord Pearson
So there you have it. No doubt we will be told by Dave that this move strengthens our security so no need to object to it, Blah, Blah, Blah! - i had never of this "european investigation order" before it was mentioned here.
that in itself is worrying.
consecutive governments seem determined to hand over more power each year to the brussels bureaucracy. - interesting stuff there barry, not comment on attlee but interesting to see maggie and tony together at second and third.
both very similar, walk through elections with good sound bites.
remember seeing douglas-hume/home on the box as a kid, just seemed an upperclass chinless wonder out of his depth.
macmillan was responsible for the suez crisis, whatever that was. - Eden was Suez, Howard.
- sorry barry, well spotted.
- PaulB and all I thank you for the invite but I'll decline joining only because I'm a very disorganised person and I feel better sniping from the sidelines rather than becoming a member where there would always be the nagging idea that I would have to behave myself. Silly I know but I feel more comfortable there. I shall post comments to Barrys excellent blog as often as I feel I have something worthwhile to say.
Anyway, to business.
Rather like a false question this is a false poll. Pointless in the extreme. I mean what exactly can the reader of such a thing learn from this list of best to worst? Absolutely nothing. It's nothing more than dinner party chat writ large. "Ah ha ha darling Gordon Brown? Really? Ooooh no. Surely you mean John Major ah ha ha ha ha. More wine Tristram?"
See what I mean? It's a waste of bandwidth or worse, a waste of precious rainforest printing this guff. Academics eh?
Now if I mixed in those circles and had the clout to persuade 106 academics to rate their top ten I think I'd go for something more up to the minute and relevant to issues affecting us today, like........
Rate from 1 to 10 the worst acts of Parliament brought in by the last labour administration which has managed to totally screw up life in this country in it's ability to compete with the rest of the world.
I know which one I'd choose but the list is long and I'm not sure that we should confine ourselves to a mere ten. - come on philip take us to task.
you go off the deep end but keep it clean, join the club!!
passion is good together with respecting other peoples passion.
anyway back to that windfarm. - Im not sure myself as hadent heard of the COI but I would imagine this department is getting out general information, rather than just spinning the government line. Just trying to think of one off the top...yes they probably do something like the Think Bike campaign and stuff like that.
But yes it looks like we could do with cuts there as they are not exactly a frontline service. What alarms me though is the talk of cuts to the Police and vital services like that, which we keep hearing about everyday.
Are all these cuts really needed. The economy is picking up like nobody's business , its rampant. Great profits at the Banks today, making a stack of profit for us (the people) on the Labour Governments bail-out shareholding investment, heavens even ITV is raking it in again on advertising. We had as a nation a stunningly successful 2nd economic quarter, so those Labour guys who have just left office werent all bad. They had the right ingredients in place for economic recovery. - PaulB the cuts are needed, the deficit will not be resolved unless there are cuts. The level of deficit is way above what growth will cure before the next downturn which happens every 7-9 years.
The size of the State is economically unsupportable. - barry
you mention in your last line that cuts will help save important services.
theresa may is stopping a scheme due to start in the autumn that was aimed at protecting vulnerable people from their violent partner.
that seems very front line to me. - Howard - re-read it. What I am saying is that the more that can be cut from things like the COI the less need be cut from the important services.
- I must admit I've never heard of this thing till now. I expect that's the case with most people. Thinking about it I agree the cuts are barely scratching the surface. Disband the whole thing! They should have called it The Central office for scaring the public sh witless. Having spent all of fifteen minutes finding out exactly what they have done over the years has convinced me that in general this little outfit was designed more to do with finger wagging and scaring the horses than anything really grown up. Some of their campaigns were so patronising it beggars belief. The COI took over from the Ministry of information. Now that's something I would like to see come back. It's alot cheaper, their information films being shot in black and white and the recieved pronounciation might educate the public how to talk correctly.
Reading an op ed by Hamish Pringle, director general of the IPA's defence of this outfit in the online edition of Campaign the in-house magazine for media types only strengthens the case against it. Here's some of what he had to say:
"This book is the distillation of the learning from 39 COI IPA Effectiveness Awards cases and puts forward tangible evidence proving public sector advertising has been a truly efficient form of investment. It has initiated positive behaviour change, saved thousands of lives, improved the health of the nation and, as a result, made substantial savings to the public purse."
and Sir Gus O'Donnell opined thus,
" "Understanding and acting on the so-called ‘wicked issues’, such as obesity and climate change, will demand a much stronger capability to achieve behaviour change at scale. And prevention will almost certainly be cheaper than a cure.
"Of course, our desire to achieve behaviour change is nothing new. Policies and campaigns aimed at immunisation, seat belts and smoking date back years.
"But today’s issues demand individual behaviour change on a scale that we haven’t attempted in the past. And on issues like climate change we need individuals to change for the benefit of future generations."
Well, draw your own conclusions but I for one recognise this bollo as nothing more than those with some semblance of power dishing out their own twisted agenda to the proletariat in ways that when I was growing up was considered elitist, top down and downright condescending. - barry
the point i was making was that cuts to essential services are already being made.
philip
i just cannot keep up up with you sometimes, though i do understand the point you are making about our betters deciding how they would like to make us behave. - I think you`ve got it in one again Philip, they`re a complete and utter waste of time.
- Sorry Howard the keyboard finger engaged itself well before the brain. I should make myself a little clearer. In essence, in the grand scheme of things the COI represents itself as a figurehead to alot of what is wrong in our country.
Years ago it was a standing joke that elderly ladies would remark that they wouldn't dream of buying a particular brand of washing powder unless it was advertised on the television. This was the age of technology where everything was possible bizzare though it sounds. Viewers were wowed with game shows, reports from far flung regions, detective heroes solved crimes in sixty minutes or less depending on ad breaks - television became the drug of choice for all from the very young to the very old who at the time were mainlining this stuff in care homes up and down the country.
The power this box with the ubiquitous glass front gave to the bloodstream in those addicted was noted and seized upon by those who could only dream of such things when they wanted to sell soap, fresh white sliced bread (I use that term loosely) and more importantly a message, namely a political message.
We all know this but it does us all good to recognise this fact as the masters of the tube are so expert in their various fields that even we who consider that are more selective and discerning in our watching still rely on the main channels for a view of the world.
I lost my thread damnit News 24 is playing in the background.
Oh yes.
My point is that when you consider how many hundreds of millions have been spent on "educating the public" about the effects of smoking, not wearing a seat belt, swimming in quarries, crossing the road with a stranger dressed in a rather loose fitting super hero suit, the dangers of rising sea levels because you left the standby switch on you cur off to bed with you then you might end up thinking that really that money could have actually put towards something more useful.
In some way these campaigns are rather like the welfare state. They act as proxy parents, surrogates for the population rather than enabling them with the good sense to make mistakes and take responsibility for their own lives.
Instead of encouraging free will and an attitude of, for example, parents to teach right from wrong, good from bad and inherent dangers encountered in day to day life the state takes over as nanny and what she says goes.
This also applies to campaigns aimed as adults.
Pointless!
Incidentally expect major ructions between the Government and the libs surrounding the issue of council house reform. Just thought I'd mention that one. - Social housing is the subject for the next blog Philip.
- with you now philip, take your point about the propsed council house reform, though i understand it to be not much more than the prime minister thinking out loud.
the smaller party in the coalition is already split in two with nick and his cabinet chums in one corner and simon hughes and the rest of the party in the other.
the latter was very quick to make a stand on the issue.
seems to me that he senses a leadership struggle would gain him the top job. - The COI had one useful purpose in publicising UK industry and expertise abroad. When I was working at the Univ of Kent they would regularly come along to take photos and details about our research and facilities for press releases that were put in their database and distributed through all our embassies - a colleague was amazed to see a picture of himself on a poster when he was on holiday in Thailand.
The system worked, we had several successful contacts over the years so hopefully that side of their activities will continue. - arry
david is just continuing an old policy from the last government.
nothing new there, just a soundbite.
john goodwin approached me in the town centre some time back and spoke about a case he was working on.
a mum and dad had died just leaving a middle aged son who had turned the place into something special.
he had no security of tenure. - I dont think that is right Howard. You need only to look at the hysterical reaction from Hughes, the BBC and the Guadian reading classes to see that.
Their reaction against it shown that DC is definately on to something good. - I think this is interesting but nevertheless an old one...I think I remember many of us discussing this on the forum quite a fair time ago as it had cropped up previously. Various bodies/governments have looked at this fixed tenure thing, but its one with real potential for nightmare headlines of families being evicted, or worse case as BarryW describes above, those little old ladies currently occupying...what would be done with all those little old ladies occupying those properties?
So the problem is often looked at but then left to dangle. In theory and on paper it might look like the right thing to do as we always need social housing. However it disincentises, if there's such a word, a whole body of people from ever attempting to better themseleves, reason being is that they could lose their home if they do well.
I think Simon Hughes for good or ill is the spokesman for the real Libdems, I describe this in near IRA terms. There's the Real Libdems, the Continuity Libdems, and the Bewildered grassroot Libdems who dont know what the hell they stand for anymore. - It would be interesting to see real figures and stats for this issue. I don't know how big the problem really is and rather suspect that it might well merely act as a flag carrier representing a wider attack on the welfare system. If the problem represents a small percentage on council housing stock then indeed that would seem to be the case. We have to look closer behind the news management strategy and not take things on face value. There might well be a huge problem but until there is some real facts given behind the story, well I may well end up being proved right.
One thing is for sure is that if the proposed policies are undertaken expect either court cases to ensue or appeals to some European court. - Good morning each and Barry.
Social mobility has nothing to do with this. It is nothing but the wrapping on a very bitter pill. The notion of freeing-up under occupation, the better to house larger families from homes too small for them, is an old one and, yes, it is one way around the lack of affordable housing available.
Regulation of the private renting sector would help too and would go a long way in avoiding evictions following on from the capping of housing benefit.
This is a clear example of what has been lost from the politics of the last few years. That is. That again there is a Political Party that is content to accuse, convict and condemn that part of society that does not vote for them. If only there had been an Old Labour party in power recently that had tried this out. we would not be in our present sorry state.
As you admit Barry, there is little point in discussing the finer points or the actual effect of this policy. It has simply been drawn up the pole to see if it flies. Fly, it does not.
The silver lining is that it is this and things like this that shall open up the options for the electorate come the next election. Whoopee! - so get ready all you council house tennants, as expected not only is this cobbled together govt after your job/money
they now want your house to
you have been warned - I think its a good idea myself, after having many friends who are council tenants unable to be moved due to no larger homes being available i think its only fair to have some rotation.
- this thing about council housing is just another cock up from dave.
it is not policy never been discussed in cabinet, all it has done is scare elderly people into thinking that they could be thrown out of their homes.
after all the recent gaffes perhaps dave might try to put his brain in gear before making public utterances? - I'm convinced this issue is mere kite flying and will be forgotten by most in less than a week unless of course the State broadcaster deems it to easy a weapon to keep prising open the open sore that is the libdem coalition. Here's a thought. If we are so strapped for cash there are savings to be made by stopping tax payers money going to political organisations such as the RSPB.
It turns out that they recieve £11,778,000 from central government, £2,823,000 from the European Union and £6,884,000 from local councils.
Now I like watching Robins much like the next man but really this is ridiculous.
There are a whole host of other lobby, sorry, charity groups who take hundreds of millions of squid from innocent taxpayers every single year. Most of them hide behind the guise of a caring, sharing, protect the poor children/birds/animals/environment/poor and needy oh the list is long.
If I feel the need to put my hand in my pocket I make the decision not an official body without my say so, but it appears, that is what has been happening for many, many years.
In Camerons new Britain surely this one is so easily done and possibly the most popular measure that it can kick start where David wants to take the Country and his big society. - philip
ask anybody what the big society means and you will get a blank face. i doubt if david has much idea either.
he appears to believe that voluntary work will take over tasks previously done by the public sector.
the big problem is that voluntary work is carried out by mainly retired people, the retirement age is due to rise!!! - as i say watch out all you council tennants
- Big society? Schimg society! It means nothing. It's an advert. It's thousands of multi-coloured balls rolling magestically down a San Francisco hill with happy smiling people dancing with joy and hugging one another. It's a hairspray because you're worth it. It's a clean, green, happy clappy smiling new world where dumbing down and infantile slogans is the new intellectualism. It doesn't challenge because there is no challenge. Challenge is bad. Good news is the only news. Challenge means problems and there are no problems because in the big society there are no problems only windfarms and rolling hills and The One Show and Countryfile which only shows nice things. No mud. Everyone wakes at nine and magically the fields show this years successful harvest with grain in abundance and gentleman farmers exchanging jokes at the local inn.
So it is with Daves vision. Vacuous and steril and impotent. Nice. Pleasant. Free from crime. Spinsters riding bikes to church.
Stuck in the past. A vision of Britain played by the rules, rules now enacted by our European masters.
We are now living in one massive nursing home and the nurse in charge has kindly switched on the television to lull us into sonambulance because that is nice. Safe.
Thank you David. Night night George. Night night Mr. Hulne. Please take good care of us all. - The term 'Big Society' is no more vacuous than any other political shorthand.
The whole point is that government has got far too big and too many of us expect the State to do far too much.
It needs drastic trimming regardless of the deficit which is in itself caused by the overmightly state and excessive interference.
We must be expected to do more ourselves and take personal responsibility.
Churchill recognised the big state as a problem in a speech of his in 1949 so Cameron is on solid Conservative ground here. - Barry, although a great war leader Churchill was pretty hopeless as a politician. You seem to forget that he, against the advises of one John Maynard Keynes, joined the gold standard in the 20s. The result was the economy collapsed and the general strike was called. Troops were deployed on the streets for fear of civil war.
The Conservatives have a long history of creating civil unrest with some of their more radical policies and the boy Dave with his obvious lack of experience is going to be the daddy of them all. - I totally disagree with your analysis Alan. Churchill had a long and distinguished career in government. Yes, like all politicians, it is not unspotted - good and bad decisions were made but overall on the scales of achievement Churchill was one of the very greats if not the greatest politician in our history.
I also disagree with what you say about the Conservatives, you could not be more wrong.
Clearly in the 20th and now the 21st century it has fallen to the Conseratives, time after time, to clear up the financial mess created by Labour governments and those who depend on the state for handouts, often to support their self-indulgent lifestyles, react to it. - what is going on with the government barry?
they are looking as clueless as their predecessors if not worse.
yesterday the schools minister stated the milk would go, in the times david agrees, then his aides say that it will stay.
on the telly david willetts said it will definitely go, a few minutes later it is announced that it will stay.
does no-one talk to each other? - Following on from what I said before Alan and referring to your comment about Keynes.
He is regarded by the left as a great economist and they use him to excuse high and unsupportable levels of public spending.
Many of us on the right as a result tend to be critical of him and indeed he did over emphasise spending.
I personally, however, am not so critical though I prefer Hyek and Friedman and being far greater economists.
The reason I am less critical is because it is not his fault that Labour and the left take notice only of those aspects of his theories that support high spending. They ignore what he said about reducing deficits and repaying debt during periods of growth so can allow a deficit and debt levels to rise during the slowdown phase.
It is because of that, ignoring the need to repay debt during growth periods, that Labour screw up the economy time after time. - Far from it Howard. The process going on at the moment is to develop options for cuts. Options being the correct word, for consideration that is.
Unfortunately, as I referred to above, there is a question of the grip the Chief Secretary of the Treasury is exerting over the process.
Add to that some inevitable jockeying for position among Ministers plus the odd bit of kite flying - then add media exaggeration and stirring into the mix, it is no wonder we see situations such as we have.
The scale of what the government is doing is simply massive and highly complex so I am not surprised that there is a certain amount of apparent confusion at times. Oh, then, of course, we are in the middle of the silly season.... journalists trying to make stories out of nothing.... - Actually I must agree that bringing back Laws would be a good move. The collective memory is only slightly longer than a goldfish and it needs someone with the balls and intellect to stamp their mark and get the job done.
Also I agree that Churchill was a great politican. Of course he made many mistakes over a long career and I'd be suprised if he were not to have done so. As I see it he lost the post war election for many reasons but being a bad Prime Minister wasn't necessarily one of them. - barry
they should be collectively discussing options not all coming out with different things that contradict each other.
the public do not like that, they expect a united front. - Howard - I agree but this always happens with politicians fighting their corner and it is the job of the Chief Secretary to get a grip over Ministers. We have seen it all before in governments of all parties.
- barry
i know i am repeating myself here, but the bulk of the population including myself want to see the coalition survive and get down to work.
they must be seen to have a united front in public, whatever the differences are in private.
nonsense like the council housing thing, iran having nuclear weapons etc etc alienate the public who want to see actual steps taken to reshape the economy, rather than public showboating. - I dl not agree with that Barry I think most of the public want it to end and go back to the polls and vote again.
- Sorry I should have said Howard not Barry.
- do you really mean that vic??
i reckon that the general public are fed up with politics at the moment.
even if it was the martians in alliance with the bnp they would back it and hope that normality took over.
a steady hand on the tiller is the order of the day, dull if necessary.
sadly dave comes across as a personality that craves the limelight and will continue to grab headlines.
every time i see him taking the stage i think of tony blair. - Hmmn. I don't understand this. The Government are trying to create an export led recovery and say that they are in the business of helping companies be as competitive as they can but then merely continue with Labour policies with gay abandon. One of the first jobs they should have done the minute they gained power was to repeal some of the more ridiculous laws and levies that were enacted by the last administration. However it appears that they are quite happy to carry on regardless by making sure that the Carbon Reduction Commitment is carried out to the letter.
It goes without saying that this stupid commitment invented by what can only be described as a bunch of ignorant and totally perverse anal retentives will help kill off any recovery that Cammy and the gang hope for.
By the way what happened to that idea that Cleggeron numero uno came up with where he invited the electorate to put up ideas for which laws should be repealed?
Aaaahhh! Just as I foretold - consigned to the rubbish bin.
Well done Big Dave, well done.
What used to be self-described as the nasty party is now jockeying for position with the liberals as the pointless party. - Top post again Philip.
We all know, of course, that the only laws to be repealed, if any, will be those that they don`t mind altering. The whole charade was just an exercise to give the sheeple the impression that they could have some effective involvement. What an absolute joke!
Perhaps Barry would also like to comment on our 2nd August posts regarding the "European Investigation Order" ? - John - A Great repeal Bill was in the Queens Speech and will be brought forward.
As for this European Investigation order, I dont like it.
We have to remember that we do not have the Conservative government I wanted but a coalition with the EUfanatic LibDems. I suspect that this may have been a lesser evil win for the LDs in order to fight bigger more important issues that will arise, like the EU tax grab.
This is the price we are paying for those who voted UKIP. According to your lot you lost us 20 or so seats and denied the Conservatives a win.
I have said it before its UKIP who have the LDs such an influence in the government and watered down the Eursceptisism of the Conservatives.
People at least can now see the pro-EU price for indulging in a UKIP protest vote.l - Barry, a simple question. If the Conservatives are the new "eurosceptics" (as you`d have us believe ) why did Dave not offer UKIP anything prior to the election in order to take us out of the voting equation?
You know very well that he had just that opportunity but refused point blank. Was it just bad advice he was given or pure stupidity? - John - why on earth should he offer an bunch of no-hopers the credability of a deal? No way, I certainly would oppose any such thing.
There is nothing new about Conservative Eurosceptisism. Mrs T was undermined by Howe over it and since then the pro-EU Tories have been in retreat and became no more than a rump. Remember Ken Clarke lost 3 leadership bids by large margins because he was too pro-EU.
Being pro-EU is the kiss of death for someone seeking to be selected as a Tory candidate, it immediately alienates 67% plus of the selectorate in most constituencies.
I just hope there is not a resurgance in them due to going into the coalition. - the only deal being offered was that if dave held a referendum then ukip would not stand.
not really no-hopers if they caused a loss of 20 seats to the blues. - My sentiments exactly Howard!
You see what I really can`t get my head around Barry is the fact that you stress the point regarding the Blues and Dave`s eurosceptism, so you would think that to offer UKIP a referendum at some stage during his term as PM would really be no big deal for the party and yet it would also have ensured the capture of umpteen valuable seats. A no brainer I would have thought?
I do sense that you`ve not forgiven us for raining on your parade, so to speak, but do you not see that your boys somewhat shot themselves in the foot?
At least we gave you the option to nullify our threat. Not many opposition parties would have done that surely? - Dave's party lost many, many votes because he thought earlier on when the Tories were on their uppers it might be a splendid idea to capture the middle class environmental vote. It didn't stop there however. In the mad panic, which included the A-list candidate fiasco, he managed to take on more and more social liberal policies.
That is what he ended up with. Be careful what you wish for and all that. Those votes lost to UKIP did not represent a rabid, hang em and flog em tendency, rather the opposite I fancy.
So what are we left with? Neither fish nor fowl.
When more and more power is given away to Europe over the medium term exactly when will Dave decide enough is enough and hold some sort of referendum on any one a litany of these issues?
He can't! Under the Lisbon treaty which is self ammending such a thing is mere pie in the sky. It lets him talk tough though which is nice.
- Look people - DC is a lot brighter than UKIP tacticians.
He knows that a referendum at the wrong time will fail and the best chance we have of getting out of the EU will fail. He also knows that in time the EU will destroy itself, it is too incompetent and too hungry for the power they are so ill equipped to handle will lead to disaster.
The fact that voting for UKIP is a vote to get EU fanatics into government via coalition deals will become all the more apparent to the public. A disaster for the EU will equally be a disaster for UKIP.
Strange that UKIP can only really survive if the EU stumble on, being bad but just not quite bad enough..... - nice try barry but dave is coming across as just a soundbite.
ok he now wears a tie to look serious but the spin goes on.
after the iran nuclear weapon he has invented the new idea of bringing in "experian" to sniff out benefit fraud.
sadly for him everyone knows that the reds brought this in when they were in charge.
- Barry, thanks for the reply.
I have to say that you crack me up sometimes.
I know that you hold Dave in high esteem but I wasn`t aware that he`s the new Messiah! - John - he does not have to be THAT bright to be a lot brighter than UKIP tacticians.
- No Barry,..............just bright enough to lose twenty seats when it would have been easier to win them!
- John, we should rehearse to Barry a fact, that at the last EU elections, UKIP came second, passing in front of Labour. Many of the British electorate trust UKIP, tendency massively increasing, to get us out of such a mess, where-as the Conservative party did not get a mojority in the British Parliament, not having as much trust as they would like to have.
The outcome is, Barry's water-pistol is out of range, he can't really prove a point concerning UKIP, because his own Party has to share governmenty with the Liberals who Barry detests, and also remains in the e.u., which Barry detests.
A bit like an old lion without teeth!
Cheers Barry! or shall I say: cheese! - I know Barry will reply, I'm taking cover!
- Incoming.....
- Good afternoon each and Barry.
When O when are we to be shown the beautiful rainbow colours of the job creation graph?
Annotated to point-up the splendours of this Coalition Government's policies; school-leavers on their career path, the long-term unemployed slotted into a nascent burgeoning economy [manufacturing based?], these over-fifties rejoining their fellows on the now never ending, work-till-you-drop, road to fiscal stability for all.
Yes John, (hello John) Messianic, says it all about the politics of recent years.
With Dave and young Nick carrying on GB's work in making the sick and infirm whole again, filling the fishing nets [oops! I forgot, the EU put a stop to that :)] and in line with the photographs on this site's front page, all that "surf'n'turf" we can see where the loaves and fishes are to come from.
Good old Kent. - Watch out people. The next great depression is nearly here. I expected it to occur about ten years ago but the tech boom forstalled what should have occured but with the techboom hitting the buffers and nothing of any significance which might drive job creation and innovation (green is dead thank God and with the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX) fast down the pan it won't be long now for the whole house of cards to finally cave in) it is a case of holding onto your hats folks. The dollar is set to drop even more by the end of the year and who can tell when the suckers rally finally leaves those hopeful types holding nothing but worthless pieces of paper.
Ironically the Government is set to spend even more over the next couple of years, all borrowed and this is really worrying though inevitable in order to stave off revolution and anarchy.
What to do? Some say buy gold. Some say head for the hills and stock up on beans. Others suggest joining a religion which seems strangely logical if only to widen your circle of friends in order to offer mutual help. The important thing for the Government to do is to be realistic and realise how serious things are and set aside some of the more ridiculous hairbrained policies which will strangle whatever growth we have to offer and think like the Chinese or Indians or BRIC countries. By keeping the mindset others wish them to - ie. the status quo and heads in the sand - then we are well and truly f screwed. There is no point in hoping things might change by mere tweaking here and there it requires urgent and radical action and yesterday.
Outfits like BAA and others are stuck in the past and merely prove my point. Their mindset is stuck in the seventies and merely serve to help the sun sink even faster on any semblance of growth we may have had. - this is an early post by your standards philip.
just picking up on a few points you have raised, the union in the baa dispute and the management sound like, as you say, in the seventies.
i have listened to them today and they are clearly at war with each other and totally unaware of their customers, much the same as british airways and the union.
i listened to the bank of england chap yesterday and he seemed to be trying to say that we are heading towards a douple dip recession.
the dollar and euro will continue to drop making it much more diffficult for the life blood of our economy i.e. our exporters. - Ha ha yes you're right Howard and the beer hasn't kicked in yet!!!
Sometimes it takes time for my hackles to be raised before posting but the problems we all face require me to post earlier.
Seriously though if you've got a job then hold onto it no matter how painful. Be especially nice to the boss and make yourself indispensable and all the other stuff people say in these times. The centre of gravity has shifted permantly from the West to the East. North America, Europe and most of the old guard are going to find it increasing hard from now on. Besides a massive welfare problem we have to sort out to be very, very boring we must, MUST, repeal any climate rules, regulations and laws we have. Expectations that going green will save the economy are one big lie. They are the chains around the neck of industry and commerce and will cost each and every one of us everything. They represent a bloated and decadent western attitude. We have to face up to the realities of competition globally or die.
I'll give you one small example or two.
Which county will make billions from the manufacture of smart meters?
Which country will make billions from solar panels and wind turbines?
Answers on a postcard. - i have always been sceptical about the climate change issue.
i think that condensed heavy traffic does cause bad air quality, hence the rise in asthma in children.
the answer to this is quite simple in my view, if one can walk down the shop to buy a paper on a sunday morning then do so.
just simple things like that will do the trick, no point in asking people in a rural location to catch a bus to work when they run one an hour.
when all this environmental thing started, companies packaged things like washing powder etc in a green packet, whacked 10 pence on and everyone felt they were doing something for the environment.
clever marketing!!
i even remember general motors(vauxhall) flogging their cars with the advert "ant colour you like as long as it is green". - Why should we work till we drop ,when our own PMs only have to do 4years in Westminster to get a pension.They also keep on about cuting the wefare and hiting at the working class and keep on about the ones who are claiming when They should not that is fair,but let us not forget that they done it aswell and some still doing it,so they can start at geting their own house in order first.
- ...I did ask quite a while ago here; Just who do we owe this money to?
I did not get a satisfactory reply.
We would all be better off canceling the debt. It is the fact that we each fight amongst ourselves, as countries and individuals/classes etc. to be "not the first, second..." to go down into financial hell.
BUT
If all the economies (of the west?) of the world just started again, where is the problem?
We are warned against this by the very people who gain by our despair, the very people who brought us to this sorry pass and exist in an odd win-win world. Is this what our forebears and our children fought/fight wars for?
Easy there Philip, getting rid of environmental safeguards will not help we-the-people all it will do is bring in cheaper and cheaper imports of dirty coal, kill more and more people far away and more here at home.
And as the exports of others get cheaper for us so the market for our exports will die too.
I did read today, while we are here, that official figures show that billions is lost to us each year through tax evasion and avoidance. This again sees the same mob get richer while you and the rest of us get poorer and poorer.
But, then again, you did vote for a Party that would do things no differently than Dave and Nick, or for Dave or Nick, which is the same thing.
When you owe the bank thousands, you have a problem.
When you owe the bank billions, the bank has a problem.
Is that not so? - If we stop our payments to the E.U. and stop our funding for Scotland for just 1year that would be a saving of £200billion we would get rid of what we owe.if we done it for just two years we could build a Hos/with A/E for all the major towns in England and puting 1000s back in work.
- For some reason my posting keeps getting flagged as Spam No swear words or horrible comment .I donot understand this
- I have heard people go on about cancelling all debt. Tbis is done out of total economic ignorance of the consequences.
First of all that rewards irresponsibility.
Secondly and most importantly - this money is owed to pensioners and others who depend on it for income. Annuities, Corporate and Sovereign Bond funds are all used to underpin investments and as income vehicles. Without debt many, many people with be without income and pension funds would simply collapse. it would be a total disaster.
The simple, short and accurate answer to who the government owes money to is each and every one of us. - I am aware of this, Barry. it certainly is a problem. For example, BP includes in its finance policy pension funds, and BP is selling some assets in order to pay for the Golf of mexico damage.
I was concerned to read the other day in a paper that most British energy firms have been sold off in the past few years or are being sold off to over-seas companies. These are the big earners, and one can assume that their revenues will no longer be directed towards the British economy and will no longer be taxed in favour of the British treasury.
It is very disastrous in essence, and I wrote about it on the UKIP thread yesterday.
If our Country only has debits and debts, and the companies that earn money either up and go or sell themselves off, what will we have left to finance our Country, pensions, civil-servants' salaries, benefits and all! Nothing!
- Also, note yesterday's Daily Express front page: 77 percent of jobs since Tories got in power have gone to foreigners!
Number of British born workers down 15.000, number of foreign born workers in Britain up 140 something thousand. - A reason more to vote UKIP!
- UKIP cannot stop the world and get off. You get over excited Alexander - things are not as bad as you imagine.
- there was a report in yesterdays mail on the same theme that alexander mentions, the figures seem broadly similar.
gordon when in power stated "british jobs for british workers"!!
total farce, what are the chance of dave and nick doing something about the problem?
little or no chance i suspect. - Takes more than a few months to change things. See what happens over the next few years.
- We would be e few years wiser, a few years more sorry, a few million more immigrants living here, a few million less British people working (living), e few hunded billion pounds more national debit, possibly more immigrants walking our streets than British people. Unless UKIP manage to win the elections, then British families will be able to prosper!
- Good evening each and Barry.
Oooo! The selective quotes game, yummy.
"It is best to build your church from the donations of the rich and underpay the work force for the first shall know that their place in heaven is assured and the other shall live in hope, for there is nothing else for them to do.
If it were true that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the gates of heaven. Said rich man would best help you build your church and buy only thin camels.
The savior reportedly said also, "Give to Caesar what is Caesars ", but lo. What good did that ever do Caesar? lol
True, you cannot change our class system lest there be brotherhood of man. But, not to worry while we keep such learning from the underclasses. :)"
Quotes from any Established Church-man down the ages you care to mention.
"I'll let you be in your dream, sometime as long as you maintain me in mine now and ever after."
"There'll be pie in the sky when you die."
Any rich man down the ages, likewise.
"You see what you want to see." Especially when you keep your eyes closed. :)
The last one is from me.
- Good morning each and Barry.
On the second point, related as you say.
On the ongoing (too) high costs of various PFI contracts. It is now a must that these contracts be looked at again, with a view to cutting back on the spend. Even if pensions and much else may have been tied into to the profit forecasts.
It cannot be right, can it. To draw down monies as if earning/receipts were still on the up.
What if it was discovered that we fell short by a groat or two in the repaying of the Dane-Geld and that debt was to be calculated at todays levels plus compound interest? - the cliches at the top of the blog were used by anglican vicars during the 19th century to the downtrodden workers so that they would continue to tug the forelock and bend the knee to their betters.
the methodist church was formed by members of the congregation that were sickened by the utterances from the pulpit knowing that the landed gentry paid the wearer of the cloth. - So Howard - be specific, what do you disagree with?
Can you make people better off by encouraging them to be spendthrifts?
Would it help the less well off if the successful were punished or disincentivised.
Can you make people stronger and more independent by damaging the strength and independence of others?
How would it help employees of employers were made bankrupt?
How would the poor be helped if you just levelled everyone down to the lowest common denominator?
So you think you can prosper perhaps by spending more than you earn?
So stirring up hatred encourages fellow feeling?
You cannot further brotherhood of men by inciting class hatred.
Living on borrowed money is a good and sustainable idea is it?
So by destroying free will and the ability to stand on your own two feet you help build character and courage do you?
So if you, for instance, send ready meals to the starving in Africa you help them more than by sending seeds and tractors.
Think about it Howard, the problems we have today relate to not applying in real life the lessons in the quotes.
We need to encourage successul people and entrepeneurs
We need to discourage people from living above their means on borrowed money
We need to help people stand on their own two feet and not to be dependant upon the State.
etc. etc. etc....
These are age old truths that have been undermined to the detriment of all of us. - Good morning each and Barry.
How is it that those in banking and in businesses large and small that are at one time or another bailed out by the 'tax-payer' see that continuing with their bonus culture is the right way for them to go?
Is PAYE only for suckers?
How can it be right to dole billions out to the few and redefine disability for the many?
How is it for some that easy money incentivises them to seek more easy money and is therefor a good thing and depriving others of enough money to live on can offer the same incentive?
Why is it wrong for a Government to ensure that it gets all the tax it is owed and to close loopholes?
Is it not right for a Government to maximise it's income while reducing it's spend?
Why is attacking the poor the right thing and questioning the rich the wrong thing?
It is starkly plain that the less you pay a worker the more the employer can pay himself, but IS this the true mark of success?
How is it that the very people who demand huge incentives are the very people who brought us to this sorry pass? Why should we wish to rerun such folly?
Hatred of this or that has not harmed us, but the greed of the few has. It is not good enough for one man's greed to be accepted as the envy of others. It is his greed, plain and simple. - barry
the point i was trying to make was that they were just glib one liners that are designed to brook no argument.
from the left or liberal perspective they could come up with,
1)the labourer is worthy of his hire.
2) kindness to the less well off is a virtue.
3)be nice to dear old mum.
will stop there before i send myself to sleep.
moving on what do you think of people from the reds being invited to join the coalition?
on the theme of this, i argued the point on here of the best brains being pooled, although my thinking was more aimed at local government. dave has made a brave an excellent decision to face the wrath of the dyed in the wool blues and reds.
one proviso though is the job title for the latest import "social mobility tzar", that cracked me up, sounds like one of those sinecures they advertise in the "guardian".
wait till philip sees it and watch the sparks fly. - Social mobility Czar? Social mobility schmazar more like. Judas Priest I'm struggling to summon the energy to point out the folly of this latest post. Who and why is the target group for this most worthy of causes? The corner boy on his bike selling drugs to the locals in his area? Working class boys and girls who are/are not doing well in state education? The longer term unemployed? Is there an age aspect to all this meaning the middle aged might miss out which would be discriminatory? Male or female?
I can only assume that somebody in Tory headquarters or which ever bar this one was dreamed up in considers jobs that involve manual labour, for example, as not really becoming. They want to see everyone joining the legal profession, medicine, advanced aircraft design and perhaps thesping it up in Richard the third or Othello as something somehow, better than those boring little jobs.
Ironically one of the best tried and tested methods of social mobility ever in this country came about with the invention of grammar schools and a good standard of education at comprehensive schools in general if you failed your eleven plus.
Good education has always been the first ladder on the way to success regardless of ones background but Dave doesn't like grammar schools does he?
This smacks of tokenism and positive discrimination in favour of the preferred and percieved group as seen by the Government of the mobility czar himself.
An attack on the middle class? I think it probably is. Time to sharpen those elbows just in case the politicians make life more difficult for the children of the bourgeois who let's face it at least try to make a go of things in general. - didn't take you long philip!!
the middle class papers(mail and express) have been rattling on for the past 13 years of the targetting of the middle classes, now they can safely continue safe in the knowledge that dave and nick will provide them with ammuntion.
in the words of the great basil fawlty "still that's socialism". - Good morning each and Barry.
This may be that I am taking issue with your words and wording Barry rather than what you have quoted from IDS, but...
It seems to me more appropriate for you to put the entire phrase in quotes,
'the broken society'
Although, as you know I am of the opinion that until the phrase becomes,
"Our broken society"
Very little actual progress shall be made. - the country is faced with this massive deficit that dave and nick are supposdly committed to reducing as evidenced by the stringent cuts to schools and hospitals, yet 3 billion quid can be found to fund an unproven idea from ian duncan smith.
- Does anyone ever get the feeling that this situation has gone too far and it's too late to do anything to change it? I must confess that I do. Has it gone too far and is this situation too engrained to be able to really make a difference? It's deeply depressing and I sometimes think that any tinkering will, in the end, make no difference whatsoever. Anything that could have been done during the good years (when the global economy was strong at least the perception was) is virtually impossible now given the current situation. No money, no aspiration, no hope and no vision and that's just this country. Please tell me I'm wrong somebody.
- Whats that well know saying "When The cats away the -------will play and we will see that over the next two weeks with our D/PM
- Philip - you are wrong, Howard, so are you.
This £3bn will be a downpayment that will help save £billions. Our welfare system is crying out for reform. It discourages work, it is far too complex, it is expensive to administer - it simply has to change.
This is not mere tinkering Philip. It is widescale radical reform, the biggest reform since 1945.
IDS is an expert in this area. He has been working on this for about 7 years and knows the welfare system better than anyone.
The Labour government in 1997 knew this needed doing and Frank Field was given the job of 'thinking the unthinkable' - then he was sacked for thinking it, Brown acting as the roadblock to reform. brown then went on the add to the complex system making it worse than ever.
Frank Field is a part of IDS' team incidentally.
Untried Howard? - What we do know is that the present cobbled together system has failed. - barry
is this the right time to embark on an expensive trial?
besides there is no real likelihood of employment in the next few years for those on benefits.
many private sector jobs will be lost because they are dependent on public sector projects, add to that the new government's insistence on carrying on the policy of unrestrained immigration from the european union. - Not a trial Howard- a essential reform that will save money in the long term.
It also will take a few years before it gets up and running so they have to get on with it and not hang around. There are always excuses not to do what is necessary, we heard them all from the last government, good to see that this one is acting.
There is no government insistence on unrestrained immigration from the EU, treaties prevent us stopping it. The last government did have a chance to control Eastern European immigration but they did not take it up, that opportunity is now lost.
You are too pessimistic about jobs as well. Difficult it may be but it wont stay that way. - What an absolutely brilliant idea from the coalition. In order to pay for alternative energy solutions by building windfarms, recycled analogue radio burning power stations, slop bucket biomass burners and all manner of, erm interesting schemes to halt the rise in carbon dioxide, it has been announced that winter fuel payments will be cut back by raising the qualifying age from sixty to sixty-six.
Now that really is smart. More power to their elbow. - Good morning each and Barry.
There may nothing else for it but to cap pensions and claw back the gains made during the time of fantasy financial shenanigans of recent years.
These ongoing gains from fraudulent speculation cannot continue. I use the word 'fraudulent' because many wage and pension settlements were based on unsupported figures in company accounts the architects of which are only now beginning to be brought to book.
Lucky for us all we can now work on into our dotage. If only the self assured, self-defined wheeler-dealers and entrepreneurs could work their magic without the billions of tax-payers money they, at present, claim they need to motivate themselves.
Or. We could bring back slavery? - excellent blog barry, not your usual biased stuff.
yes churchill had all the human frailties, maybe that is why he is so revered.
i doubt whether his alcohol intake was quite as bad as some people assume, he would not have lived as long as he did.
i suspect the cigar and glass of brandy were mainly props.
same with fidel castro he hardly ever had a puff of his cigar for health reasons.
my favourite wartime quote from wsc was "the hun can only be at our throat or at your feet". - Here's a quote from the man himself...
A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Sir Winston Churchill
- Here's another quote from the great man himself. "Never trust an environmentalist".
One of his best I reckon. - Were there such people as 'environmentalists' in Churchill's time? I suspect not - easy to attribute quotes to Churchill that he never said.
- Nah, just joshing Barry. But it did strike me the other day when I read your latest post about Winston Churchill that today he would be considered to be a very unpopular PM by a large section of Britain. He was renowned for his tough no-nonsense approach to life and politics and would be considered too tough and too strident to be acceptable as a Conservative Prime minister in todays world. Can you imagine the outcry if any party leader was seen too consume "too much" alcohol or even smoke??? Not that I would condone such a thing but the idea of a home secretary taking up arms and assisting the police in an armed siege would certainly not go down too well in some quarters but Winny certainly did that when he was home secretary.
Some of his other ideas would not be considered to be on message and I suspect he would give environmentalists and others in non-jobs short shrift.
- Here's another quote.
"Never in the field of human economic history has so much been owed by so many to so few. However, once again, this was spoken by my good self to my good self. It made me laugh. - labor in australia made a mistake in getting ride of kevin rudd, most commentators believe that he would have led his party to victory.
tony abbott is popular because of his down to earth persona but there are doubts about his suitability for such a position.
the independents have the trump cards for the first time, normally mainstream politicians never visit rural australia at election time or any other time for that matter, all the votes are in the cities.
the money markets down under have taken all this in their stride even though it looks like it will be a couple of weeks for a new government to be formed. - Ironically some have heralded this particular election as the first "climate change " election in the world. Call me an obsessive but it's true. Rudd was ousted because he prevaricated on introducing emission targets and other useless measures to save the flippin planet (yeah right it really needs saving yer great galah) so the labor clan elected some Shelia to take his place mate.
Tony Abbott, a noted sceptic until quite recently in order not to appear like some crazed madman in the eyes of the teenage bedwetters and twenty-somethings whose poor minds have been so indocrinated they too believe in the warmist religion - schooling eh? what good does it really do?
Massive taxes promised to halt the rise of the gas which helps plants to grow would have helped to cripple the Australian economy so wiser heads fought against this although, sadly, as in the UK a hung Parliament was the outcome.
I foresee a great similarity with politics in this country and it goes like this.
That clown, the buffoon, the stupid mans intellectual Boris Johnson was famous for his wit and sarcasm and anti politically correct ramblings before he was elected Major of London. How he scoffed at the futility of measures to combat rising polar bears. However, as I predicted well before his win, he made the term volte- face look like very cross as a term used to describe Stalins opinion of his enemies. Suddenly the clown Boris saw the light and became just another useful idiot in his quest to green London and save the planet. Yes my friends when you see Boris on television stumbling and bumbling and quoting classic Greek you really are seeing a complete and utter twonk. Watch Tony Abbott change his views on climate change from "climate change is crap" to "something must be done.
That's politics folks! - you have started early tonight philip.
don't quite get the comparison with boris johnson, only tony would go to the beach wearing "budgie smugglers". - Cripes I called Boris Major of London. I do apologise. Budgie smugglers indeed! In my case hummingbird carriers which is why on the rare occasions when I do swim I go for the full Waikiki Bermudas if that's not a contradiction in terms. It probably is but sounds fun.
- Double dip is a virtual certainty methinks. In fact I'd wager that it might well be far worse than that for us and other countries including the United States. Perhaps in the future the idea of a double dip might seem like halcyon days compared to what is in store. The dollar/yen is the problem de jour and is merely a symptom of a much wider malaise. Stock up on those beans and candles. Businessinsider is always worth a read if you sift through what is mere speculation and which is real analysis. The market oracle has been required reading for me until lately as I noticed too many pundits pushing gold which hasn't moved for ages.
Various pundits have something interesting to say including Peter Schiff and the combative Hugh Hendry. Both have been proved right in their predictions over the past few years. Take some time to read what Gerald Celente has predicted and how right he has been over time.
I do worry that those in power have decided to keep the proles in the dark so as not to worry the natives and to keep confidence levels as high as they can but this can backfire when the s straw hits the fan and people realise they have been lied to.
Hold onto your hats, We live in interesting times - i find it interesting that the bastion of capitalism i.e. the united states are concerned that the current policies of our goverment will lead to double dip recession, this was said to dave on his recent trip.
we can only wait and see whether the policies of george bear fruit. - I suspect they think that they have more to lose Howard. I really don't know but I can only suspect that a massive austerity package in the States would end up as the final nail in the coffin as confidence would completely collapse and with the primaries due politics plays a larger part in this game than economics. I don't have a clue whether or not cuts over here will do the trick. Not to cut is not really an option and has to be endured. It's really quite frightening but we will have to deal with what will transpire in our own way. Whatever happens if the USA experiences a turn for the worse it's out of our hands and the ride will get faster and even more terrifying.
- Howard - most countries are having to cut simply because there is no other sensible choice. Too many countries failed to balance their budget in the growth cycle and are paying the price - few are as bad as the UK though.
Referring back to my last blog.
The Australians did not deficit spend, did not go into recession and do not face austerity measures as a result. Evene their Labor government had more sense than to follow the British Labour route.
So you see, it was not a global recession.... - BARYW
With regard to your comment on the benefits system as iv said many times before we are probably at one on many of the ideas you have.
The system that allows people to pick up
(not earn) large amounts from the social without having to put much back is wrong.
Yes f fields was given the job to look into this, and his didnt realy go far enough, but that said I don't think this cobbled together, collapsing govt will either.
I'm sure that everyone collecting from social would be able to put something back into society.
most could do voluntary work of some kind or another, this can vary according to the individual, it would give them more pride, ans i'm sure such a plan from people at the top could be worked on.
Up to now its a vote loser so no party will take it on.
Will be interesting to see how far this cobbled together, collapsing govt goes with it. - the institute of fiscal studies have stuck their oar in now claiming that the recent budget was hitting the poor most and was regressive rather than progressive.
george initially claimed the wealthiest would suffer the most. - The initial response of the Institute of Fiscal Studies to the George Osborne budget at the time, hinted at these findings, but now in a fuller report have confirmed it. The poor suffer most with Osborne's Budget..
But all through the election one David Cameron, new dad, comprehensively re-assured all of us that the lower echelons of society would be protected. So whats gone wrong with the planning?
Nick Clegg was adamant in his campaign that the poorer members of society would be protected at all cost, but now the Coalition are even looking at ways of weadling out of the winter fuel allowance. Clegg in particular has done considerable u-turning.
The government response this morning to the aforementioned Institute was to pooh pooh their findings, saying they failed to take into account growth. Not much growth though in a double dip recession, as BarryW suggests above is on its way. - PaulB - The IFS report interpretation is mischevious to say the least.
It takes into account only new measures introduced in the budget and did not allow for those measures from Labour's budget that are in the pipeline that Osborne chose not to cancel.
A true picture should look at this all in the round.
The 50% tax band for instance, is a measure that makes no fiscal or financial sense that was introduced by Labour that GO did not repeal. He kept it in purely for political reasons but must be allowed for in any budget analysis as this will be introduced in the same timescale as the rest of the budget. - Paulb
I think the problem lies with what happens to the rest of theLaib Dem vote.
Having already collapsed at the last general election, they will become very much a minority of minority parties athe soon to be called general election.
Rightly Barryw and his crew are rubbing there hands at the prospect, having used the lib dems to prop the unstable govt up.
But people are so fed up with politics in general that its still unclear if there would be an outright majority.
Mark c
You are incorrect that votes lost by the lib dem would go to the tories, many wil;l go to labour, just like the number of lib dems crossing the floor to labour membership.
So all to play for !!!!
keith - A liability indeed but I know that our Government will blindly put their hand in the public pocket and pay up with barely a whimper of complaint. It's not that they don't neccessarily want to but they have no alternative but to pay up. In my mind this construes more power being ceeded to Brussels and there should be a referendum on the matter. Some will argue that it's money and not power and refuse a poll but as they say, power is money - money is power.
- In time we will be out of this farce, make no mistake and it will be the Conservatives that eventually get us out.
- BAZ;
I don't share your faith in the conservatives!!!!!!!! - I think its a bit of an oul wives tale to suggest that we have acceeded power to Brussels. We are exactly the same here in the UK as we always were, the mother of all democracies, and still in charge of our own destiny.
We are simply members of a voluntary club..a club everyone wants to join by the looks of it. They are queing up. Our trade is easier, our comminications are easier, and our prosperity is back on track with our latest economic figures showing a real and further boost in the past day or so. No wonder no mainstream party in their right mind would consider opting out and rocking the economic boat. There is no appetite for it, not with the younger generations who see their furture enhanced by 'club' membership. - Paulb
I share your view in part, It does also have a problem in the way it operates.
The cost of MEP';s, the cost of runnng the show, the decisions made at times by some unelected bodies within it.
If It wants to be truely open/accountable and a world beater, and gain the support of even more countries then there are parts of its set up that need tweeking - Sorry Paul but we done just that all the power is now in Brussels ,just for one look at the fishing they tell us when to go to sea what to catch and how much .
- Good morning each and Barry.
With the USA and the growing wealth/power and markets of China & India many of the global wheeling-dealing done in the future where would the UK be without the EU?
I agree, the EU is a Cuckoo in the nest and less and less Democratic by the day, but this cannot change while Party Politics retains it's grip on the promotion of 'their' ideas without input from the electorate. Especially as Party membership is so low.
The reluctance of the right to get to grips with this democratic deficit is, in the main, down to their regret in becoming small fish in a big pond. It is not in the nature of British Party-Politics to have power reside anywhere but with them.
A deal more news on what the electorate are to get from this Coalition by way of consultation in and a part to play in decision-making would go a long way to softening the blows of GO's 'savage' cuts.
Lets get Democracy going in the UK and thereby show the way to the faceless what-nots of the EU. - i still believe that the currency will collapse, the german public are up in arms about what they see as their hard earned money going to profligate member states.
even angel merkel has expressed doubts about the future of the currency.
once the euro goes gradually the poltical union will disintegrate, i doubt if our country will instigate this. - Paul, I`m sure you`d be surprised if I failed to comment on your previous post!
I`m somewhat baffled though by your beliefs that we haven`t, in fact, acceeded power to Brussels and that we are still in charge of our own destiny.
Personally, I don`t think anything could be further from the truth.
European law has to override national law as clearly stated in the Lisbon Treaty.
The principle of European law overriding national law has actually been around since 1963, when it was decided that European law could not be applied in different ways in the Member States, without fundamentally undermining any chance of acheiving the Treaty objectives.
This principal has been accepted by the UK and has done so since 1972, when Parliament passed the European Communities Act. Since then, if there has been a conflict between national law and European law, the UK courts have to give priority to European law. We are therefore obliged to implement any laws agreed in Brussels and adhere to it`s instructions.
With this in mind, we do not have any option but to follow the Brussels directives with foreign bureaucrats pulling all the strings.
Unfortunately, I can not see this situation ending any time soon as there are too many vested interests from our own political elite to let this happen without a fight.
Finally, there`s not enough room on this page to list everything that our country has lost/given away to the EU! - Here's another reason to leave the EU. The 100 billion dollar a year (yes per year folks!!!) emission trading scheme. I can think of other reasons but this particular little scam makes a mockery of any cuts this present Conservative government hope to make. Oh hang on little david loves the scheme so there's not much hope of doing anything about it. Hey ho same ol', same ol'.
It's a weird feeling to see a socialist party pretending to be conservative in power but these are strange times, very strange times. - had this discussion with a former left councillor only yesterday.
we both agreed that there is little more than a cigarette paper between the big two parties.
i split my sides when i hear about the big society.
it seems to be based on volunteers taking the place of people losing their jobs.
everyone knows that it is retired people like me that do the volunteering, yet the retirement age will rise.
add to that people like me will not take on more so that a breadwinner will lose their job. - Yes Howard. Cameron should be honest with the country. He needs to tells everyone that we are all f in a hole and unless something dynamic is done we, as a nation will surely die. He needs to give up this obsession with academies and greenery and being naice to people. He needs to stand up and tell it how it is. An unreconstructed hippie/socialist/rock musician in his outlook and it will do us no good at all. People will respect harsh and cruel words if they are convinced that it will do them good. However, tinkering round the edges is all that can be expected. As you know I particularly detest his environmental views although they are, I suspect, not his views at all. If they really are then there really is no hope for us all. They seem to be borrowed from some rather persuasive clown he met at cocktails sometime a few years ago. If he continues to persist in his beliefs then just sit at the sidelines and watch the rest of his daft policies bring us nearer to economic collapse.
- baz
gwyn was a very good MP
respected by many.
whomeve was there last election would have been defeated.
take off your rose tinted glasses baz.
- Keith - I totally disagree with you about GP. He was a second rate MP and in that I am being generous.
He was too partisan, something that showed even in something as basic as the headed paper he used, styled in red and the Labour MP for Dover.
By contrast Charlie, Peter Rees and David Shaw always used generic HoC headed paper to emphasise their broader representative role that transends Party. Ennals before them may have done too, to be fair, but I have no personal experience of him as I was too young.
GP also simply did not have the experience or intelligence to do what Charlie has done and was generally a poor representative. - totally unfair barry, we do not know whether gwyn would have out his hand in his pocket for the scheme.
even if he had his wallet would have been a lot lighter than that of charlie.
as for intelligence we can make a judgement at the end of this parliament in 2010. - HOWARD'
I don't expect owt else from barryw
totally blinkered, rose tinted glasses.
The shock will come when my prediction comes true and the govt crumbles altogether - great picture of barry, oliver and fuhrer paul.
barry certainly looks the picture as the barman. - I heard someone say that your post correct HOWARD
lol
looks more like waiter lol
- Dont you like formal dinners then Keith?
I do, you can't beat a good black tie event with the ladies in their low cuts!!!! - Good morning each and Barry.
Pay no attention to your detractors Barry, you look splendid and by the looks of things you are a generous host. Plainly Mr. Letwin has a hard time saying no to you, but do please follow C E's lead and give the station back it's clock. - and nice Socialist RED curtains
lol - Every time I've looked at this picture the time still says a quarter past six. What's going on? Has your clock stopped Barry?
- I can only assume that Watty is wearing that shirt with tie combination to win some sort of bet. No wonder Letwin has closed his eyes and turned away!
Trinny and Susannah where are you when you are needed????? - paul is on a sponsored dazzle i believe, barry is looking smug after counting up his tips.
- Strewth I swear I just saw the minute hand move a little. Mind you how is it that it is showing a quarter past the hour and yet the hour hand is directly in line with the six rather than a few degrees past the hour line. This requires further investigation. I'll have my boffins at Cambridge university look into this one. Perhaps the CRU might have a computer model to see where the hour hand might fall at, say, a quarter past twelve.
I'll keep you posted. - lol Philip, very observant - That clock came with the house when we bought it and yes, at one point there was a fault with it regarding the hour hand. It is such a pain in the neck to change, unscrewing the wooden back plate....
- It goes to show, Barry, what high society is, and how little we people count, and Democracy, and public opinion! All decided over the table with a big laugh!
- sounds good to me, cannot beat an evening at posh barry's manorial home swapping anecdotes about the royals and making fun of the hoi polloi.
looks like blue barry has a similar arrangement at his place. - baz if i was you i would take the house bk then lol
bloody clock lol - Tony Blair and his new book. A self effacing, honest, seminal, insightful diary of a Man of destiny - a brave man whose honest and brave fight to make Britain the proud and successful nation it is today puts other politicians in the shade in terms of brilliance, determination and truth.
No I jest. More bul spin than you could shake a stick at but mugs worldwide will make it another bestseller. - PHILIP
Coming from the left of the party I was no great fan of Mr Blair, But that said, like maggie did blair made labour electable and got the middle England vote after a very unpopular outgoing conservative govt.
The danger of going such a route is by distancing yourself from the workforce within the party is election time.
Those from within middle England dont go out there muddying there hands at the coal face(as they say) lol
But it will sell the book, have little substance
- very selective of you barry, i read the stuff in the times today he was very even handed in his description of our gordon
most interesting was his comment that sacking the scottish chap would have opened up the party into divisions of right and left.
to me that says that tony thought more about the bigger picture than his own ego.
- ....or that Gordoom knew where all the bodies were buried and would have put paid to Bliars leadership.
This really is a sordid tale isn't it? It smacks more Jeremy Kyle than any lofty tome devoted to an educative look at a Prime ministers time in office. It drips with bile and loathing and is being slurped up in great gulps by supposed political commentators whilst they appear on our screens in their Sunday best. It's like the Westminister version of Big Brother and makes me feel rather queasy. One of the more interesting items Saint Tone talked about was that of how wrong he got it wrong on fox hunting. As Prince Philip might have said after the division bell on that dark day when they outlawed the sport "The man's a complete and utter pri menace".
The only funny thing of note was the back handed splat aimed squarely at that hypocrite extrordinaire Diane Abbott when he refered to her election hopes I heard on the wireless earlier today. Her words must have to some extent mirrored Prince Philips' I wrote above. And then listening to two jags and eight chins Johnny (that's Lord Prescott) did make me smile for all the wrong reasons.
Can't wait to see the reaction from the great bogie picker Brown when he brings his memoirs out sometime soon. - you can be so difficult at times philip, i thought tony came across as honest, detailing his liking for the falling down juice was a plus for me.
he has been careful not to get involved in the current leadership election unlike past leaders of all parties.
i cannot wait to pay out a small fortune to read the 700 pages.
i am even more keen on the memoirs of the foreign secretary, the rumours have resurfaced today. - I have recently discovered the biographical delights of Clerihews.
Gordon Brown
The layer of bricks who brought the whole house down
The one good thing of him you could say, if you dare
He was not, is not Tony Blair. - Howard you may well be right when you talk about the foreign secretary's memoirs. Funny but if you picture Charlie Hawtry with a baseball cap it may well make a suitable dust cover for any future publication he might care to write. Funny that because the sacking of Hagues, erm, advisor, is creating quite a stir in the blogosphere. Iain Dale is spitting feathers at Guido and it's all turning rather bitchy. I must say I did find Hagues speech earlier tonight rather strange. Had I been in his position I would have laughed the whole thing off however He for reasons best known to himself reacted rather differently.
Hmmmmn. - this all takes me back to the times of edward heath and certain suggestions made about him.
maybe william is like cliff richard, still waiting for the right girl to come along? - The trouble is that for the past few years there has been so much scandal in Westminister everyone and their dog is terrified of anything which might implicate them in some way for whatever reason. Not really healthy and does nothing for the image of Government nor does it help the democratic process or help to get things done such as getting our country out of the mess it finds itself in.
However if you are paid to change laws and have a profound effect on the lives of others then expect the slings and arrows and expect the book to be thrown in your direction when you mess up. - Glad peole are starting to ralise this govt is messing up
- Keith - this is about the last government. Blair and Brown...
- BAZ
Thought we had moved on from this, and were(like philip says)
talking about the cobbled together government?
Ia just replied further to philips comments - Yes Keith - he was referring to 'the past few years' - we have only had the present coalition for 4 months
- BAZ
As you will be aware
just as article on Willy and hisd room mate
The papers only sell by stories such as these.
Don't matter that people like yourself quote only part
yet miss the bits whrere he blair said he admired Gordon
Same as with WILLY
the room mate is- th big thing
now willy is having to un round saying his marriage is ok.
Sad effect papers can have - Nothing to do with the government then Keith - just to do with the personal life of a minister and some totally unfounded allegations of little or no relevance.
- YEP BAZ
And like todays newspapers sells papers
- the press are taking an unfair bashing on the hague issue.
rumours have abounded about him now for around 10 years, now the internet is full of other stuff on the subject, how can they just pretend that nothing is being said? - You can always find people on the internet to say and claim anything at all. George Bush really a monster from Alpha Centauri - someone on the internet will be saying it!!!
- but when its a tory
blmey them orrid media people
lol - Interesting to see Bliars turnaround on the subject on foxhunting which I alluded to in an earlier post is coupled with his banging his head against a brick wall for passing the FOI act which he now bitterly regrets. Following that listening tonight to David Blunkedit appearing on a radio 4 documentary about the highly imbalanced extradition treaty between the UK and the US he also regrets his part in the passing of the act.
These are three extremely important pieces of legislation which under the socialists were quite happily and unthinkingly speeded through Parliament whose quest to set a world record for passing laws has yet to be bettered. What a complete bunch of incompetent, imbecilic morons that took charge over the darkest days in this country for many years. How many other fu messups will other ex-ministers own up to?
What other laws will be exposed for what they are?
Hmmmn, the climate change act?
I'm not holding my breath but someone has to let Dave into a little secret and explain real science to him followed by a crash course in economics and global competitiveness before it's too late. - philip
all credit to anthony for saying that he thought he had made a wrong decision, thumbs up to blunkett too.
i have no problem with anyone admitting that they were wrong, you may find this hard to believe but even i have made a ricket at times.
the people i have a problem with are the ones that can never face up to being erroneous. - Blair also saying DC is right with his deficit reduction, suggesting that he agrees Brown's economic policy was a croc.
Blair also agrees with DC's plans to reform public services - somethin blocked by Chancellor Brown.
Brown also blocked Blair's attempts to reform welfare and forced the sacking of Field.
Did the 13 years of Labour get anything right must be the question to ask?
Look at the appalling HRA after all, another flagship piece of legislation.
Well, yes - they did do one thing right... no, correction two things....
Banned smoking in public places
Kept us out of the Euro
Wow, 13 years of Labour and that is what was positively achieved.... - Amidst all the furore over the Hague affair, the fact that Hague appointed Myers as his third special advisor (when two seems to be the norm) appears to have been overlooked.
I am also puzzled as to why the more rabid, right wing, reactionary sections of the tory press and blogs have turned on Hague. What has he done to upset them? Surely he cannot be too left wing for their tastes?
- PUZZLED
I'm unaware of any left wing tories
but that said mr Hague I do have time for
he's a good speaker
has a vast amount of knowledge
- i must admit i have always been a fan of mr hague, good brain but shafted because he lost an election that would have been lost by any blue candidate.
he always came across as someone that had not been given any decent back up. - HOWARD
Your correct, he was leader at the wrong time
but even with his latest scandal I think he will cum good
- maybe you could have phrased that better keith?
- HOWARD
It was a joke???
blimey mate lighten up - Andy Coulson. Dear oh, dear oh, dear.
- Hey, great news. I've just been on the ecotricity site and there is no reference whatsoever to Dover, or to be more exact, Langdon where they tried to install the eyesores a couple of years ago. Recently they said on their site that they might consider an appeal to the planning department but now, in an almost Orwellian move, there is no reference.
Oh rejoice.
Oh deep joy.
Ha ha eat my shorts ecoscamery. - barry
it seems clear to me that david miliband will be the next leader, the activists will have the final say.
the unions are threatening to reduce or stop funding if ed miliband is not elected, this is reason enough to get david elected.
the sooner donors lose control of the big two the better. - BAZ
You continue to say you are not interested in what goes in the camp that will replace this cobbled together govt, yet keep reporting on it!!!!!! fearing it I reckon.
I think the leadership election is sewn up, one of the milibands will win.
Diane Abbott would have been good, but sadly the party will go for the milibands,
Regarding Ed Balls he didnt do himself any justice in the latter years.
What L(some parts i didnt) but t blair led the party/country
and did not let go.
good as a leader, no my cupof tea
- I have paid very little notice indeed to the Labour leadership election farce and its insane electoral procedures. Labour will remain in the wilderness for years now. People will not vote to re-elect the Party that so badly screwed up for many years, hopefully never.
- i doubt you really believe all that barry, we have had all the yellow councillors switching sides around the country, now we have a blue deputy leader on a midlands council switching to the reds.
doesn't sound like a wilderness to me. - These things happen Howard all the time in all directions. It is inconcievable that people could be so stupid to vote Labour again for many years, if ever. The nutty left and class war warriors still will but they are a small minority.
- A PM called Ed Balls!
- BAZ
As i stated befoire it will be a co olition govt and i was right
As iv since stated this govt will crumble and be gone in 18 months
you heard it here first - I think your'll find that the rot set in much earlier than any socialist tinkerings over the past few years. Witness Antony Croslands meddlings which paved the way for the state of our education system. He was a Tory. No Government can get away from this one without blame including, especially including, this present administration.
- The left wing dominance of the educational establishment goes all the way back to the 60's and when Shirley Williams first started to undermine and then get rid of Grammars in the name of political ideology. I did say that failing to reverse this was a failure for Mrs T both as Education secretary under Heath and PM.
- philip
crosland was a red politician, although some of his party would go along with your statement that he was a blue. - BARRYW
I have many friends within the consevative party/supporters who are teachers, and your view below is a sad reflection.
wHlist everyone would agree on the need to review the education system, this Idea of REDS UNDER THE BED does not help matters.
Your party supporters whpo are teachers are not happy with your comments, nor do they support them - I too have friends who are teachers. Some have taken early retirement, some have opted to work in private schools. The reason? The state of education in this country. The targets, the lack of discipline, little parental input, money wasted building new schools when poor children in the developing nations walk miles to sit there keenly to be taught by a teacher with little more than a blackboard and chalk and yet the children love to be there. Academy schools which is nothing more than rebranding failing schools. There is more but too long a list to go into here.
- PHILIP
I understand part of your comments, but glad you see the bigger picture unlike our barryw who blames it all on lefty teachers.
The problem as you indicate is far far wider than a few lefty teachers - I did not say lefty teachers Keith - I referred to left wing educational establishment, a very different matter. If it was just some lefty teachers that would be a simpler problem to deal with.
The teaching establishment, advocating their pc teaching methods, their anti-competition ethos and the dumbing down of exams, opposition to selection and streaming - this is not just a matter of teachers.
- I should also add their opposition to discipline as well and the use of corporal punishment - it all copntributes to the mess.
- BAZ
Thanks for that, clarifies a little, many of the subjects within this I would agree on.
- barry
corporal punishment never worked, it was always the same names in the punishment book.
i doubt you would find many teachers willing to hit a child with a stick nowadays. - I think legislation needs to change in a number of areas
parents(some) gtaking responsibility for there childfen
teachers being able to reprimand pupils if need arises
I saw children battered by nuns so not so sure gving teachers powers to beat children is right way
needs to be another way - Well Howard - exactly what has happened to discipline in schools since the can was banned?
Improved has it? No, not at all, on the contrary.
Maybe the reduction in discipline is not all down to getting rid of the cane, but I remember one very respected headmaster who very sparingly, used the cane, mainly for bullies.
Then it was maybe then once in an average year. He told me that the ban would, in the mong term, be a disaster for school discipline.
He was convinced the availability of the cane and its very occasional use in respect of extreme bad behaviour was a big factor in keeping a lid on bad behaviour. He also thought excessive use, on the other hand, would be counter productive.
He was proven right. After the ban and his retirement shortly after matters steadily declined. - you are talking about a very different thing barry.
at my school throwing a paper aeroplane at a fellow pupil was considered a whacking offence.
what is wrong with detention or as parents today do withdrawing privileges? - Nothing Howard - but there is nothing wrong with the cane as well' for use where appropriate.
I suppose back in the times of good Queen Vicky the level of discipline you experienced was in place, but a balance was clearly reached for future generations. It certainly was not like you say in my day! That balance has swung too far the other way and a good whacking needs to be re-introduced for the worse examples. - Whilst hardly a 'lefty' teacher I am totally opposed to corporal punishment.
What we need to get away from is the perpetual worry about the little blighters 'self esteem' which precludes us from telling the useless that they are actually useless.
Let's have a return to wit and sarcasm. Hit them between the ears - that's where it really hurts! - We can agree to disagree over corporal punishment Bob but I am 100% with you over the nonsense of protecting the so called 'self-esteem' of little toe-rags.
- BARRYW
Your comments indicate all youth are a problem
when it is a tiny minority
It';s the bigger picture that needs looking at, not just education
if you want to change things - Weak argument, Keith, I have never suggested that the problem is anything but a minority. This minority have a wholly disproportionate impact on the life chances of the majority and should be dealt with harshly.
- bob
were you the bloke that featured in the pink floyd album "the wall"? - Barryw
Don't use weak arguments, and we probably as i'v said agree where the problem lies.
Once you get to realise the problem is bigger than just in schools the sooner we can move forward on this one - Now you are talking Keith.
Yes bring back the lash for young thugs, hanging for murderers and make jail a very nasty bread and water experience for the dross that get committed.
Yes it is wider than schools and yes tough action is needed but in this instance the discussion was about schools not the wider problem. - yep prison should be bread backed by the froggies and water passed by the germans.school kids who misbeave should be floged in public,ah the good old days.
- i am rather keen on french bread brian, though i share your distaste for the proposed liquid accompaniment.
- BAZ
As you will be aware the education system is only part of the problem, unless all the other things are also dealt with problem wont be solved.
I dont agree with way to deal with it either.
because of my experiences of brutality by teachers*(nuns)im afraid i need more convincing on bringing back cane
wont ever agree on bringing back hanging
agree fully on way jails should be
- having read comments by members that fell victim to brutality at the hands of "decent religious folk" , i can only conclude that corporal punishment does nothing but leave a chip on the shoulder or just a bad memory for the victims.
it is the last refuge for bad teachers. - howard
you are correct and until you can overcome that im not convinced its best way forward - Caning, hanging, flogging,beating! What a load of barbarians!
Though I must admit that when last at University, on Monday mornings, I regularly saw some students stoned. - BAZ
On your latest posting above
does that not remind of the present UK government
no mandate just the same
Tories not electing MP's to cobble together a govenment made up with lib dems, many with views far away from where the tories sit.
So please look closer to home
18 months is passing you by
and this govt!!! - seems to me that the independents did exactly what they were elected to do. austrailian dollars 10 bn is now going to areas ignored by the mainstream politicians.
it is a fact that campaigning is only done in cities and their suburbs.
looks to me that the indies have repaid their supporters unlike the yellows over here that decided to take cabinet seats, better salaries and ministerial cars for themselves and nothing for their voters. - Keith - totally different.
The Orange Book LibDems like Cleggy have more in common with the Tory left than Labour.
A broad brush amalgum between the policies of each party has been agreed.
It is an agreement between the Party that received most votes and most seats and the third Party.
That is totally different to Aussie where the Party that lost in seats and votes remain in government.
In Aussie the only thing making the government work is an agreement over finance and votes of confidence. The governing Party cannot therefore have any confidence of getting any of its policies through parliament. - Gosh is it really a whole year!!!
Congratulations BarryW on being one year old..you are doing a FAB job. A great variety of topics covered too. One year on and looking good. - BAZ
This UK COBBLED TOGETHER govt has no more right than any other to Govern.
And certainly DOES NOT have the mandate of the local people.
In fact the word on the ground is the Lib Dems are going to have a disaster in 18 months time.
This could be a disaster as it could mean your lot getrting overall control, the thought haunts me. - Happy Birthday Barry's Blog, You are doing a fine job with this one Barry, always very interesting to follow, keep up the good work xxxxxx
- No more right to govern than any other.
You really have to be kidding. Conservatives with the most votes and the most seats, supported by the LDs bringing up the combined vote to over 60% and a majority of seats. A programme for government based on negotiation, combining elements of both programmes.
This kind of thing is the way government is done in most countries all the time.
Blimey - if this coalition does not have a mandate to govern what would be the situation if Brown had succeeded with his alliance of losers.... you have a funny idea of a manadte or a right to govern.
- That last comment was to keith by the way.
Many thanks Collete, Paul, for the birthday wishes....
140 hits I noticed in the last 24 hours. - i must admit to being impressed, over 31,000 times viewed in a year.
barry always gets a reaction on here. - Howard. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Are we talking quantity or quantitity????
- BAZ
'The tories do not have a mandate
and the lib dems as i say will be hard hit in 18 months time.
With regard to Labour, best thing the lib dems ever did was to go in with the tories, both will be destroyed in 18 months - I see that brother Bob Crow aka Fred Kite (salary £105,679), in preparation for this weeks TUC conference, has already called for a campaign of "civil disobedience" in protest at spending cuts!
It's like deja vu all over again except this time I'm ahead of the curve already being on a three day week...... - mr crow always comes across as rather crass to me, when he speaks of action and civil disobedience he positively drools.
he will not be standing outside in the cold all day on a picket line worrying about whether his house is repossessed like his members. - It's the Scots I feel sorry for. This from todays Scotsman.
"SPENDING on schools, hospitals and other key services is set to be hit by the estimated £8 billion cost of Scotland's world-leading climate change laws, the government have admitted."
"In a paper obtained by Scotland on Sunday under Freedom of Information laws, officials declare that cuts to all other portfolios will "inevitably result" from the new climate change targets.
Officials have placed an £8bn price tag on achieving the target to reduce by 2020 emissions harmful to the environment by 42 per cent below 1990 levels. But the scheme comes as departmental budgets are set to be reduced by as much as 40 per cent between 2010 and 2014, putting unprecedented pressure on services."
For such a tiny country who would have thought lowering their emissions would lead to so much death? But it will happen. - didn't hitler do exactly that?
how can a government cut off their funds in a democracy? - Easy, Howard. the Union are subsidised by the taxpayer for one thing and all of those £millions should be taken away.
Secondly - if the Union put a foot wrong in obeying the rules governing strike action they should be taken to court and their assets seized. This has been done before and should be done again. - All we need to do is come out of the EU and there would then be more funding then we need to keep all happy.
- Now now boys and girls, lets put aside the general bob crow attack and look at the general T.U.C. movement.
They will debate this in full, and if you listen to the TUC general secretary the talk is quite different to that of Mr Crow.
But apart from that and I don't want to harp on about I told you so, but baz, and now the conservative party, have made it very very clear they despise the working class and trade union movement.
There is a real need, more so these days, for trade unions, with poor working conditions/pay/
list goes on.
lOOKS LIKE THIS DEBATE WILL GO ON AND ON,,,,,, - Keith - how typical of the left.
The working class and the Trade Unions are not one in the same. To despise the Trade Unions, as I do, does not also suggest despising the working class.
Indeed I consider the Unions to be the greatest enemy of working people (of whatever class you want to assign to them, something I do not do).
The Unions are out of date and a menace to ordinary people wanting to go about their lives.
The main 'achievement' of the Unions post-war has been the destruction of British industry. Now their only real stronghold is the public sector and as such are opposed to reform and common sense.
Vic - you really do not understand just how big the deficit is and the simple fact that even getting out of the EU will only scrape the surface. - Baz;
me old mucker, there is a real need in these dire times to have trade unions,
- there will always be a place for unions, any attempt to destroy them is an attack on peoples rights.
businesses have unions, the c.b.i. institute of directors and many others, only fair that workers have the right to join a trade union.
people like bob crow are not representative of the currant batch of leaders.
the likelihood of mass industrial action in the immediate future is unlikely.
45% of public sector workers are union members in the private sector the figure is 16%. - HOWARD
You mainly correct, and the TUC is a very responsible body,
But theres has to be a line to be able to object.
What's worrying now is Barryw's view and that of the conservative party, clearly on a war path with the trade unions.
Only the every day person will be the loser.,
- Keith - I express my view full stop, not the Conservative Party view.
I see no role for Trade Unions, they are an outdated class-war hangover that are a danger to their members and society as a whole.
I support free association and would not ban such dinosaurs, however undesirable they are, but they need to know their place within a framework of law that will punish them if they transgress into irresponsibility. - barryw,so you would rather have a trotter trading company/arther daly style workforce then.[wot a rip off].
- BARRYW
You have said it all.
It don't matter all those people getting more dosh than the prime mimister.
THE banks paying bonus's whether lost millions or not
utility companies paying bosses a fortune
the list goes on
It's not about any form of jrelousy
its about some kind of equal treatment - As it has been point out not only by myself there will be much unrest if the cuts go ahead,and this will end up going back to the voter soon.And we will see one party again in power, but which one?
- mY REAL FEAR is because CLEGG sold his soul, the lib dems will get even more hammered than they did at the last election, and the tories might get in by default.
I do hope this is not the case.
- But that might just be the case Keith and if that happens there will be no holding the blues back unless the public see what is going to happen if they do.
- VIC
I cant affiord the tories getting overall control
so i hope some of the smaller parties
or the lb dems vote holds up
or labour do well - If that the case just maybe I will stand again if it is soon.
- I don't think anybody can afford to see the tories get overall control but it is a fact that the rich will get richer and the poor poorer when their cuts start to bite.
As Vic quite rightly says it could all finish up with it rebounding on them with civil unrest.
Just remember the inner city riots when Thatcher was in power, the mass unemployment and the daddy of them all the poll tax riots.
- Alan - that mass unemployment was the fault of the 1970's Unions and their restrictive practises and strikes, which led to swathes of British industry becoming outdated and inefficient, being kept afloat only by massive public subsidy that was unaffordable and unsustainable. Mrs T takes the blame for administering the unavoidable cure that ultimately resulted is the UK becoming a far more prosperous country.
We see the same pattern again. Through 13 years of complete financial incompetence (and incontinence) Labour have destroyed the economy. It now falls to the Conservatives to put it right and then to take the blame for the medicine needed to cure Labours mess.
Remember even Darling admitted things were so bad a Labour government would have to make cuts 'as big as Mrs Thatcher'. - ALAN;
OF course your right, and sadly our barryw wont ever see the light but dont let that put you off.
VIC;
You are starting to look silly by making a major announcement on retiring and now deciding otherwise.
As i told you in town you have lovely wife, and should spend time together,
you dont have to stand to have an effect.
relax, spend time with the family
you know it make sense - Dear Barry W,
This is the first time I have ever read your blog, and have to say what a shock to realise that in this day and age any one belonging to the 21st century can have such Toll Puddle opinions.
It really is quite staggering how forceful you are in your hate for the unions. Has it never crossed your mind that the people in unions are the same as you, have the same aspirations and desires as you, and at the end of the day just want to survive as best they can without being labelled destroyers of society. You really ought to be ashamed of your self. - Jimmy - I lived through the 70's and experienced the destruction the Unions caused to this country - the madness of restrictive practices and pointless strikes, driving businesses into insovency. Compounded by weakneed government subsidising these businesses and building in inefficiencies making them uncompetitive producing goods no-one in their right minds would buy (Austin Allegro anyone!)
The Unions were a menace to the jobs of their members and to the economy.
They have no place in a modern economy and, thankfully these days they have little influence in the private sector.
Jimmy, those who should be ashamed of themselves are those who allowed themselves to be used as gunfodder blindly following fools like Scargill. - I am a life member of a union now after being a union member all my working life and not once coming out on strike, Barry again we see you looking at it all from oneside,the worker needs back up just like the employer has ,but that does not mean both can not work well with each other and there are good and bad on both sides.
- good post vic, i was a union member for one year over 40 years ago, never since, that does not mean that i am anti union.
didn't suit me, others were more comfortable with it and, as you say, have never come out on strike. - VIC;
I would love to say I never came out on strike
but it wouldn't be true lol
As Iv said there is a place for unions more so today, more so with this cobbled together governments anti trade union idea's.
I think I have posted before on the good work unions do even here in Dover and the legnths employers would go to avoid responsibility, and the union protected the member ansd good job the union was there - Dear \Barry W,
It may surprise you to know that there are many survivors of the seventies and eighties.
You obviously must be getting along in years as you have got to that stage in life where one is inclined to be selective in what you want to remember. P.S So am I
One can recall with clarity black friday. John Major getting his up to date briefings not from his party but the good old BBC.
Interest rates of 17% and one almighty panic in the city all down to good old steadfast tory policies. One has to give credit where credit is due. Norman Lamont did eventually concede the point that it had been one almighty balls up by the tory government,and boy were they glad to leave office. History has an uncanny nack of repeating itself only point to ponder is when will the present load of scoundrels realise that time is up. - Just for the record I have been on strike back in the sixties and to this day I have no regrets,why should I have??
- ok i wont say how many times i was on strike lol
- Not a political person, but I do remember back in the 70s of being sick to death of strikes all the time which were crippling British industries. Remember British Leyland was it, workers jamming car parts into the production line to f... things up. Every time you picked a paper up another million pounds being pumped into British Leyland. I always use to hear the word communist`s mentioned, and of course we do know now that it never worked. I`m talking here about my personal memories of it all, and not forming an opinion of what or who was right or wrong, as I`ve never made a study of it all.
- I done my first days work in Sep 1956 and was told to join the union not asked and I did and apart from the 6 years in the army i was in the union all the time and they did help me at times to.
- Jimmy - your memory is certainly selective and also wrong. Not sure what the events you mentioned about John Major's time have to do with the Union but never mind.
It was not a Friday, it was a Wednesday and might better be remembered as 'White Wednesday' (unless you are pro-EU that is). That was the day we crashed out of the European Currency Union and was the catalyst for our economic recovery from the 1990 recession.
The problems was caused largely by John Major, as Chancellor, finally forcing Margaret Thatcher to give in to his demands (and that of the pro-EEC Tories, Liberals, Labour, CBI and, yes, the Trade Unions) to join the ECU.
For a few years beforehand there was a massive fight to get Britain to join ECU, Mrs T opposed it and was backed by her adviser, Alan Waters and rebel anti EEC Tories (including me...). For some years Nigel Lawson in his time as Chancellor 'shadowed' the DMark in preparation for ECU membership despite Mrs T's outspoken opposition. During that period interest rates were set at a rate to achieve parity and the result was a deepening of the recession - despite which the calls to join ECU continued.
Even most of the so called Tory press were against her. I remember a Mail headline calling on her to 'back her brilliant chancellor' over the issue.
Membership of ECU was the established wisdom and those of us opposing it was regarded as almost crazed in our opposition.
I, working in Financial Services, on that White Wednesday, was glued to the radio. Norman Lamont, the Chancellor who inherited rather than caused the problem, was forced to defend the £ under the rules of ECU membership. At one point in a last ditched effort that day he actually increased interest rates to 30%, that did not fool anyone as it was obviously unsustainable so it failed. But Lamont did what the rules expected of him and he was able to restore sanity by leaving ECU and interest rates by the end of the day were below the level that they were before the day started. From then on he was able to set rates to the level our economy alone needed and they fell quite fast creating the conditions that pulled us out of recession.
Since then the Conservative attitudes towards ECU changed so that now we will never make the mistake of joining it successor, the Euro, which is a political and not economic project (as ECU was)
Sadly Labour and the LibDems still hold out in favour of joining the Euro some day. Fools. Conservatives will never do that, opposition to the Euro is now in our DNA.
There, a long history lesson for you - no selective facts, the real events that I followed closely, linked to my profession and not politics. - BarryW
As much as you may dislike the Unions I am afraid they have a say in todays society.Forget for a minute if you can the blue collar unionists and consider that Policemen Nurses Teachers and Firefighters are all considering taking strike action against the Coalition Govts Draconian cuts (their terminology not mine) and then ask yourself...Are they all wrong and incorrect in their opinionl of the current situation and BarryW is the only one who is in the right. Wasn't it not Jung who once said " Look at yourself first and maybe you are wrong and they are right" and not vice versa. - Marek - you talk about vested interests. It is not just me against them so that latter point is absurd. The public sector holds the last vestiges of Trade Union power. The simple fact is there must be cuts to deal with the deficit. Only in the la la fantasy land that these Unions and their sympathisers exist can a government keep on spending more than it has coming in.
The Unions are a divisive menace to society and always have been.
Thankfully they are now weak in the private sector and as a result common sense helped keep people in work who might otherwise have lost jobs. Employees in private firms have accepted pay freezes, even cuts and short time working to help save their jobs while, at the same time the public sector gravy train just kept rolling on. - Barryw
Lets ignore the millions of union members as highlighted in my post below oh but add that the new General and Head of the Armed Services has expressed concern at the early scrapping of the Harrier,Tornado and reduction in the Nimrods oh and the disbandment of a number of famous regiments and the almagmation of others in order to fund Trident...lets ignore all of these learned people and perhaps you could inform me as to the people other than the blinded Tory supporters that are backing these cuts?.
- Ahhh Marek - there is only one area of public spending that I would not cut at all, Defence.
There are three very good reasons for that:
1/ we are at war
2/ it is the only department of State not to have benefitted from Labour's largesse over the last 13 years and has been underfunded throughout.
3/ defence of the nation is the prime and most important job of any government.
Everything else has to up for cuts as far as I am concerned. There is no alternative. - Indeed it is often forgotten that the Unions represent and speak for ordinary people who are out there working hard trying to make a living. Marek and Jimmy highlight it well in their posts below..ie Nurses, Firemen, Policemen and so on....all Union members and all doing a good job, but who very often have to fight for a decent wage...through their Union.
Where Unions on the other hand fail is in those they select as their leaders. Take Bob Crowe for example. A barnstorming table thumping type who really belongs in an era prior to the TV age. His type of rapid fire rhetoric is of the dynosaurs. Its now all about persuasion and about persuasion in the televisual age. You have to take the nation with you in any dispute and the early Tony Blair television experience highlighted how it should be done...how to win friends and influence people is a must nowadays. - PAULB
In barryw's world there wouldn't be this, chat goin on it would just be, take it o leave it.
I know Bob Crow well and he was on the national board with me and all i can say is that he knew his stuff, he didnt buckle, and he put forward alternatives. At meetings he was polite but strong, A very good negotiator.
Paulb Im all for moving with the times and getting modern trade unions, but with this has to come a LEVEL PLAYING field.
let me give you an example;
Talking with managers about problems the industry was in the chief exec. suddenly said oh by the way don't believe what you read in todays financal times!!!! iv never read in my life!!
of course we had to ajourn and get hold of a paper.
What was in the paper?
whilst we were talking to them, they had sold the comany!!!!!
On anoher issue in a democratic strike with talks also ongoing the board had gone to court to try to get strike classed as illegal thankfully they lost, but thsats no even playing field.
What we need is employers.trade unions to be able to sit round a table to find solutions, in can be done, and iv been through it all, and A.C.A..S but at the moment it's not an even playing field trade unions rightly have to ballot etc
But when business loses millions do they have same thing no thy dont, they continue to lose millons of OUR money.
Many unions including the RMT modernised themselves and iv always said i will be involved in a dispute if a ballot takes place and majority in ballot go for it.
The old N.U.R., never used to ballot and thats how you got to the old 1970's probs.
Unions themselves recognised that and Ia was one of many that supported the need to ballot for action.
I could go on and on about hoe employers acted over the years but wont.
There needs to be room for employers/trade unions not to have trade unions will move us back to those dreary cloth cap days going to the gate begging for a job.
we don't want that.
- i only know bob crow from what i see on the television and am not impressed at all.
today, as paulb has said, is all about being televisual and coming across as agreeable to the public.
the head honcho at the t.u.c. mr barber comes across as pragmatic and as someone that will listen to all views before recommending anything to the members.
keith is right about the need for better communications between trade unions and employers, most other western countries seem to have fewer problems in this regard. - Bob Crow is all for the re-nationalisation of the railways, why? As far as I can see, it`d be solely that he`d have the power to bring the whole network to a standstill, rather than as at present, negotiating with a number of different private companies. Of course, the road loving majority of this country would love nothing better. Nationalisation done nothing for the railways since it`s inception in January 1948 as I`ve said on here before. Constant interference from politician`s with vested interest`s in various road building scheme`s, Marple`s and his chum Beeching are two excellent example`s.
- Keith - businesses that lose money do not lose 'our' money, only the money of their shareholders/owners (and bank's money).
of course if you were a sharholder in a money losing company you could and should make a fuss
You do get some very strange ideas Keith - I certainly have a lot of problems understanding much of what you are trying to say in that last post.
- Ah Harriet, Harriet. I remember her well. Glad you've managed to photo-shop out the tattoo on her right buttock......
- COLIN;
You are correct in the way you put it the BREAK UP of British Rail, but not all was bad in the nationalised days.
That said, there were a lot of faults, and there was a need for an alternative, but privatising it was the WRONG option.
I think COLIN you misunderstand or maybe not been over involved in trade unions of any kind?
One of the reasons for privatisation was to make it difficult to represent there members.
Those of you still in the public sector the tories are clear they are out to get you and silence you.
Wonder how the lib dems feel? - Barry W,
I really do not know why you have your own blog. You obviously do not have the desire to read any one else opinions far less to Analise what people are actually saying.
I am not going to go over the same old arguments, so in this case I think we should agree to disagree as you are far to blinkered to see the world as it is, but then if you think as a tory then you are at a disadvantage to start with. - jimmy
the whole point of the blog is that blue barry can expound his personal views.
i have to say that sometimes they are not objective as they could be.
nevertheless if someone else that has strong views on another subject and is willing to update it regularly then an e mail to paulb might be in order. - Jimmy - I read what you said and provided a factual response, correcting factual errors and explaining in some detail what happened. I was, incidentally, very critial there of a Conservative PM, John Major.
I note that you did not try to challenge the facts in my response, merely to denigrate me - the tactic applied by someone who lost an argument. - Howard - you are quite right of course. But objective, me?
When expounding my views how can I be objective - a contradiction in terms.
That of course does not mean that everything I say is 'Conservative approved' or even pro-coalition far from it - I am to the right of the Party and do not hide the fact. Everything I say here is me...
Maybe I upset some people, good - so it should. That goes along with strong opinions. If I set out to be bland and non-controvercial no-one would read it and the blog would be a waste of time!
The Daily Mail (and Sun, not my taste in reporting and writing style) upsets the left all the time and that is why they the biggest selling daily papers. - JIMMY;
I note your views. something I raised some time ago, but It will continue, thats our barryw. lol
Is it then useful as a blog??? I don't think so, but im always of the opinion of the right of people to post, even those to the right like our barryw lol - Yes its very useful as a blog as anyone else can always then express a counterpoint to the point of view shown. Its never been any secret that its a Conservative Blog in BarryW's own inimitable style.
Ive never had the opportunity to consider a Labour Blog as for me it was always a problem getting enough Labour guys to even post. - ideally gordon cowan would be the best in terms of balance.
may be too busy now he is leader, pity as he always comes across as interesting and knowledgeable. - It does look at this time if a GE is called within the next year I will be standing again if no one comes forward in the party (UKIP)
- I always find Barrys blog interesting if a tad offhand on occasions.
- MAREK
The blog itself is Ok as long as anyone looking in realises the blog is a right wing tory one.
Not everyone will know that when first looking it.
There is a lot of information poured out by our barryw
I reply when I can
VIC
You know my view
PAULB
You can see from comments in past few days, some don't want to hear an alternative view, and thats fine, but do we realy want the forum to be seen as tory mouthpiece.
- pm question time must have reached a new low if the subject of who gets what votes in a leadership election is brought up.
- I think that the issue of Harridan Hatemens stack of votes is well worth raising. Frankly it's scandalous but hey that's the labour party for you and nothing they do will ever suprise me again. The trouble is that the bunch of watermelons known as todays conservative party are no different in terms of their policies - if anything they resemble the socialists now more than they ever have.
Take a few of their policies. Europe. No change there really if anything the leadership is more europhile than even labour. Take the environment with a policy initiative set for this November - five houses Huhne proposing his green business agenda which would create thousands of expensive and useless jobs to save the planet and our economy.
Ring fencing the NHS - another sacred cow spared from cuts from any future labour manifesto.
Failing to ringfence defence spending leading to a lowering of our defences and damaging the existence of prestige companies such as BAE.
Etc.
Etc.
Etc. - Ah now this is a very interesting one re Vince Cable above, and something I had intended to try and get round to myself. The point overlooked though is that he is saying the very exact same thing as Conservative Mayor Boris Johnson in London. Business Leaders have been barracking Boris to put pressure on Downing St re the immigration cap. They feel any kind of cap in London is disastrous. How will they man the million businesess, the businesses that are the very engine of the UK ..that is their concern.
And...it is a genuine concern. Ive mentioned this in the past, you hardly come across a native worker in the London Hotels. I stay in London Hotels from time to time and every nationality is there. The English are thin on the ground, they dont want the jobs. long hours lowish pay!
So it is a real problem. Vince Cable is not alone in voicing the problem, bumbling bouncing Boris has done the same.
The immigration issue is often fraught with emotion but Cable and Johnson are supplying a reality check! - paul
the "lowish" pay is rock bottom pay, the minimum wage in the country of origin of the workers.
if businesses cannot operate without paying out a bowl of rice a day to their employees, then they should not be in business.
if the same businesses paid the legal minimum wage british people
would take up the positions. - Dear |Barry W,
You are certainly a hard man to please. Four months ago all you tories thought the sun shone out of the liberal arse, now here we are four months down the line and already you are hating your coalition partners.
I should imagine at the end of the parlimentary term there will be a mad dash for the best seats in the old bailey to watch the survivors of the coalition standing trial for murder.
I am truly grateful that this is not the 18/19 century as I have this horrible image of our Barry entering the work house with his bull whip behind his back,muttering to himself "If I cant hang the workers then I shall just have to console myself with stripping the flesh from there backs" - Good evening each and Barry.
How is the Dover garage sale doing?
What with the mess New Labour has left us in and the certain knowledge that the rich and only the rich know what is best for us all what else can be done than yield to their superior wisdom and flog off the remaining silver to johnnie foreigner?
But logically the wisdom of the mega-rich must be superior again, how fortunate we are to have them around.
You will have heard of Professor Greg Philo, Barry, I wonder if you have spread his recent news around your loyal readership?
To save you the time and the effort I shall assume that load for you. Why not Google his name and the words 'Deficit crisis' and all will be revealed.
This is so topical and pertinent to the local plight of the port and to the lives of each and every one of us.
Alas his main thrust is explained in an article in The Guardian. All I can ask you each to do is hold your breath. His idea, after all, would rescue the port and that must be worthwhile.
Happy reading all.
[I feel like the flying doctor, bringing solace and relief from out of the blue] - Very sad little post there Jimmy.
The coalition is a necessary evil and I have been consistent in my views of Cable.
The sooner we get a proper Tory government the better but for now what we have is better than the sheer incompetence and ignorance of Labour. - Barry what makes you think that the blues can get there on their own,it all points to the Reds geting back in again if we went to the polls now,and with more cuts for the working man coming soon you are on the way out mate.
- When you have Government ministers telling us that we should be building hospitals and fire stations on hills you realise that the Government we have elected are mad - zombies - crazy people. Lizards just like you read about on those conspiracy websites. Whatever other policies people get worked up about is meaningless. We are truly being ruled by aliens from the planet zoik.
I'm gonna build me a solar powered rocket if I can get the subsidies but there is red tape to sort out. Then I'm out of here. - out of interest philip, do you brew your own grog.
if so, it must be an excellent beverage. - Yes I do if only to avoid alcohol taxes being wasted on hairbrained schemes. Come on Howard keep up don't you read the news?
- heard another one today, nick and that scottish bloke with the glasses reckon they are going to stamp down on tax dodgers and close loopholes for the avoiders.
the present army of people cannot even keep onside with the p.a.y.e majority, with the ineveitable staff cuts the situation will get worse. - P.a.y.e.
Hmmn. That got me thinking. (For once I hear you cry).
Let's replace the paye scheme with one which is tailored to one's individual needs. The job one does, or not as the case maybe. One's place in the social rankings as epitomised by the table so commonly used by market researchers - A, ab, c1 etc. Whether one is in gainful employment or not. It could be perfect or not.
So, for example, one who finds themselves not working but who enjoys the fruitful delights of daytime television would find themselves on the payw scheme or pay as you watch scheme.
Those who work for a living on a regular basis would remain on the paye system but if so desired could opt for the payeamssirh scheme which stands for the pay as you earn although my social status is reasonably high scheme which might actually offset certain contributions due to various factors which might take some discussion to work out if indeed they might be offset or not as the case maybe.
Paydd or pay as you daydream might be controversial as certain sectors of those in the public sector are probably under this scheme already.
Pays or pay as you surf (the internet or indeed surf the waves at Torquay if you like or both with the advent of the iphone) might also come into force.
The possiblilites are endless hence it's probably time I went to bed as a hard days television viewing awaits me tomorrow. Jeremy Kyle, Bargain hunt, the weather (at least ten versions of that on news 24) and other such sundry delights need a watchful eye. As you've guessed by now I've opted for the Paywbfmoia or pay as you watch but find most of it awful scheme. - i suspect you may be right on this one barry, the impression i get from a lot of yellow activists is that politics is a hobby to them.
i saw nick give a very good speech this morning intimating that.
seemed to go down well with the audience, but i suspect they will then go to their fringe meetings and start a whispering campaign against hi. - I listened to speech at the sandal wearers conference and it struck me that virtually every single policy statement he made was diametrically opposed to any traditional Tory value up to the emergence of David Cameron as Tory leader. Says alot really.
- Philip - It is a coalition and not a Conservative government. It is that because of the electorate not Cameron. You can hardly expect Tory policies to be promoted/supported at a LibDem conference after all. You wont hear support for LD policies either at the Conservatives.
You will see reluctant ecceptance of reality and compromises and 'wins' for the LDs at the Conservatives though.
We do not have what we want but must make what we have work for the interests of the Country. - there will be no split in the coalition, today's poll in the top peoples paper showed that the vast majority of their support has now transferred to the reds.
i realise that there are more than 4 years to go but the fact remains they have lost all this support even before the cuts come into effect.
as a side issue, if that poll was translated into an election result it would leave a hung parliament but with the reds having 13 more seats than the blues. - HOWARD
Your post is very interesting and wouldnt that be good a 13 seat majority
then where would the lib dems go? - not a majority keith, however i feel 99% certain that they would do a deal with the reds.
i suppose we would then have our friend nick doing his statesman impression spouting "this coalition is the right one and in the national interest". - Why not let the Reds join the Coalition?that way we will see the main partys working for the UK and also stop the falling out.
- Vic - come off it.
The Reds ruined the econonomy of this country and cannot be trusted to run a whelk stall. It is entirely their fault we are in the scale of mess we have regardless of those they want to scapegoat.
Them in the coalition - madness, utterly daft and truly pointless. - i think vic was joking,if that happened the opposition would consist of ukip, scottish nationalists, plaid cushions and assorted ulster looneys.
- Thankfully HOWARD we have only another 18 months of this cobbled together govt.
HOWARD;
I don't think labour would do a deal with Lib Dems, but as you can see with power how it currupts minds and clear thinking.
The lib dems have not yey fully cottoned on to the next general electiion where they will lose most of there seats, and as barryw says the tories are just using them.
CLEGG said today hold your nerve, because he knows theres so much unrest in both the LIB DEM and TORY camps
and thats only with there own parties
thats without all the arguments between the two parties
thankfully as ii say we only have another 18 months - Let's hope it lasts much less than your predicted 18 monthis Keith. With five houses and lots of millionaire friends Huhne about to announce his latest wheeze by raising green taxes at the imbecile party's lovefest tomorrow expect sensible people to swear under their breath and pinch themselves hard that they truly are not experiencing a nightmare. Petrol prices up, air fares up and all for the usual reasons but with one other - to help the poor.
Please excuse my ignorance but am I missing something here? Raise transportation costs to help the poor?
I have been accused of being an obsessive on the subject but at least my so called obsession has cost nobody anything except time wasted reading my comments.
This useless coalition, on the other hand, will cost us all dear.
Still regards me as an obsessive? - I know Keiths predictions have a habit of being right but Im not sure Im going along with the 18 months one, not after seeing the Libdem conference yesterday. They are absolutely loving being in power, with Nick Clegg loving it more than the rest of the conference combined.
His confidence is soaring, his tv performances, and his stage performances are so good they are almost smug. His status is top drawer, Look at that walk to the conference yesterday before his big speech...cameras whirring all the way.
This guy isnt giving up anytime soon.
The only tiny fly in the ointment yesterday was that the libdems voted against Gove's free school idea...and who can blame them for that. Talk about dancing sideways! - PAULB;
You may be surprized to hear that Ihope this cobbled together Govt does go the full term.
This will enable Labour to get its leader in place, re group and be ready to take over from this shambles.
I do thank you on my predictions, and will watch with interest the cracks that are clearly evident, and slowly destroy this cobbled together govt.
So look out for May 2012
On the issue of CLEGG you forgot to mention the poll thsat showed Lib dem support dropping big time.
Also the poll that showed CLEGG the least trusted leader
And the poll showing CLEGG is trusted more by the tories than his own lib dem members/supporters.
Surely they can't all be wrong? - I can't see wanting to give up his slice of power so easily so as time progresses he will be forced ito more compromise in order to keep his hold on the Deputy Leadership.
There are a lot of variables but cracks have begun to appear which will only widen not heal with time.
My policy is to wait and see. - MAREK;
My view is that 18 months will see the end of this cobbled together govt - You will still be saying 18 months in 14 months Keith...
- NOPE BARRYW
MAY 2012 - To quote Quisling Huhne earlier today. "No more half measures going off at half cock".
Do you think there is some Freudian aspect to this part of his speech? Was he refering to himself or those who in the audience who make up the tofu munching rabble?
Still if you're going to wreck an economy there's no point in going about it using half measures I suppose. Him and Dave - what a combination eh? - To quote, "The news came as Mr Huhne said he would only give the green light to more nuclear power stations if Chancellor George Osborne agreed to taking millions of the lowest paid out of income tax. “A deal is a deal,” he said.
I say
What kind of twisted and distorted and corrupt kind of politics are we witnessing here?
- PHILIP
Now you can see why I sat just 18 more months of this cobbled together government - Philip - its the kind of distorted corrupt politics that is the norm in most European countries cursed with proportional representation and permanent coalitions.
Our first taste of a real coalition govenment may not be all-together palatable but it is what the electorate left us with and, bad as it may be, is far, far better than the disfunctional incompetent farce that Labour had.
In four to five years time we will get a chance for an overall Conservative government but in the meantime all that is important is to get a grip of the economy and that, at least, is well in hand. - Baz;
Don't know if you saw news today, to show how badly things are going and looking to the future.
People had there first chance to vote since this cobbled together govt came into being.
In exeter lots of Lib dems lost there seats to LABOUR some als defected to LABOUR
giving LABOUR overall control
not an area you would usually expect labour to do well. - Keith - long before the election George Osborne warned his children that he would soon become the most hated man in the UK.
This shows that the government is realistic about these things and unlike the Blair government is placing the country before popularity.
Longer term I am sure the benefits of what they are doing will bear fruit electorally, for the Conservatives.
Not sure about the LD's and dont really care about them myself. - BARRYW
It's yet to be seen how much damage this cobbled together govt will do.
And yes I agree everyone hates Mr Osbourne probably as you say even his own famly - Well, I like him and have to admire him for his determination to solve the economic problems Labour left him with.
- I hope with cable /hughes doing there bit to destroy the party
and IDS/Osbourne
I HOPE they can reach the 18 months - Keith forget anyone destroying the party. It's the country being destroyed you should be worrying about. The whole shower will bring the country to it's knees within your stated timeframe of 18 months.
The coalition are sending out signals that this country is not open for business what with the immigration quota policy, the stranglehold they will let the EU hold over the city of London, any green policy they put forward (the giant windfarm scam opened today by five houses Huhne earlier today), the fact that Tim Yeo is still in office, letting St. Cable open his big gob to tell the world that in his mind capitalism is a great evil, Cleggero jet setting it to the UN in order to waste more of OUR money on the supposed holy quest to rid the world of poverty whilst causing real poverty at home. Oh the list goes on and on.
- PHILIP;
I'v tried not to go overboard because I know barryw cries easy lol
I stick by my 18 months, it may well be the Lib Dems who tear it apart.
- going off at a tangent, the republic of ireland published figures today that showed they were going deeper into recession.
most unexpected and causing great chagrin in dublin.
the problem is that they have been taking the same measures planned by our government.
dave and george(maybe vince) will be studying that closely. - Big difference there Howard, it has to be said, is that they are fully signed up members to the USSR sorry the EU. Therefore they have little leeway in terms of their finances. We can only hope, therefore, that not adopting the euro will somehow help us out somehow. It's probably only a forlorn hope but a hope nevertheless.
In the comments posted up following a piece on this in the Telegraph someone very kindly summed it up as follows.
"Ireland received lots of EC funding
Ireland thought the EC was good.
Ireland got more money
Ireland was already more free market anyway (not due to EC)
Ireland thought the Euro was a good idea
Ireland could not control interest rates
Ireland gained from global boom (not because of EC)
Ireland had bumper tax revenues from insane property boom
Ireland went spending like no tomorrow
Ireland votes for Lisbon
Ireland goes downhill....... "
- philip
ireland signed up to the union when they were a struggling country.
great riches were poured into their coffers, we all have heard of the champagne breakfasts in o'connell street and the emergence of the celtic tiger.
inevitably they became one of the stronger economies, the subsidies disappeared and they were told to take in immigrants from all over the world.
suddenly the population that loved the european ideal turned nasty and voted against further integration.
naturally this was not accepted and they were told how to behave at the next referendum. - Indeed. Part of me, just a small part, thinks that they deserve all they get. Drunk on money and didn't have the balls to say no to the Lisbon treaty the second time around. They have nobody to blame but themselves. Having said that, we too in the UK also deserve all we get having voted (not me though squire) for labour three times in a row.
- barry
next to no cuts have actually been made, it is all talk at the moment.
the deficit is higher than it was in may, interest payments are growing by the month,deliberate leaks of cuts trying to soften the blow.
time to put us out our misery maybe?
the spending review is scheduled for november, probably another year before any savings are made, leaving the country even worse off. - Well to date even HRH the Queen has had to resort to pinching money from the poor in order to heat her pad at Buck. House. Where will it all end?
- maybe her majesty should heed the words of that "brutish gas" cove and put an extra cardigan on.
apparently the 15 million quid grant from the taxpayer is not enough to keep her palaces going.
needless to say i shall be passing the hat around the forum, i hope all members will find it in their hearts to give generously to save this elderly lady. - News just in, her errant son Charles has rigged up an exercise bike in the front room linked to a generator which is in turn linked to a one bar electric heater. Should do the old girl some good, what with obesity levels in the UK the highest in Europe and she'll be doing her bit to save what's left of the planet.
Good old Charlie, ever the inventive one if not somewhat deluded.
As far as ratings agencies go, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them. Wasn't it the big ratings agencies who were core to getting us all into this mess in the first place?
Their questionable practices turned a blind eye to the problems being stored up over years of mismanagment and dodgy practices by big institutions which in the end had to end in the inevitable crash. - Howard - £6bn is the current year cuts that are planned to have taken effect by the end of the current tax year, of course they have not bitten yet. This is what all the election row was about, Labour opposing any cuts this year.
True the deficit is higher, a few months is simply not enough time to make inroads into it. But because a start is being made now and not next year, with the plan to balance the budget within 5 years, the markets are responding well. Imagine how they would have collapsed if we still had Brown. Confidence is all important here.
- He was on the box today with a Labour MP I thought he struggled to answer many of the questions put to him.
The unknown labour MP came across far better
- barry
the reds are gone, no more excuses for blaming them.
this procrastination does not impress anyone, the team of auditors at the disposal of dave and george would have clarified a while back where immediate savings could be made. - HOWARD;
You are correct labour for the next 18 months will be re building
ready to take over - Howard - you clearly have no idea of the complexity of the task and the government is only 4 months in.
The ecomony is the way it is because of 13 years of Labour misrule, full stop.
In 4/5 years time you can blame or credit this government for what it achieved. - Today we will see anew leader of the reds,if the voters gets it wrong the reds will not get back in power for many ayear,because I am in a tradeunion I had my voting papers some weeks ago but which way did I vote?
- barry
facts are facts, so far it has been talk of cuts and savings.
i haven't seen any yet.
the goverment knew the state of the countries finances long before they got elected. - Howard - the timescale has been announced, at the time of the budget, the result of the review will soon be made known.
- Phew, that was close eh? The labour party have just elected Forest Gump as their glorious leader. Looks as though they'll be completely and utterly unelectable for the next two terms at least.
Not that there's that much difference between all three parties nowadays since they all try to cover the centre ground of politics except of course in their environmentalist policies which, let's face it, are extreme in the extreme. - a bit early for you philip, hope that an asbo has not kept you indoors.
more seriously i think that ed will be a challenge for our dave, policies are not that important anymore, all about charisma and being photogenic.
i know little about him but understand he comes across well to people and appears to be open, not forgetting the lady voters who would like to mother him.
should be great watching him take on the "brokeback coalition" in the very near future. - Here we go then ED, lets get at them
we only got 18 months - Early? Yes Howard I managed to finish work a little earlier than usual. A thougt occured to me on the way back home.
Bearing in mind the policies that the past labour administrations have brought in over the past few years and examining big Daves intentions I can see very, very little difference in their policy objectives really. Replace Dave with Ed and you get much the same.
So does Dave intend ridding us of the annoyance that is the PCSO? Nope.
Does he intend to make our streets safer? He says he does but in the end? Nope.
Will he continue to employ the likes of Chris Huhne? Yup.
Does he intend to clamp down on criminals and impose harder sentences in order to make us all safer? Nope.
Is his Government spending more and therefore borrowing more? Yup.
Does he intend to integrate the UK further and deeper into the EU? Yup.
Does he prevaricate on major issues such as Trident? Yup.
Again the list is long.
Vote Tory get labour. Don't be brainwashed into thinking anything different. - PHILIP;
The Tories and LABOUR are poles apart, and over the next 17 months that will be seen - Poles apart, on that you are right Keith.
What Philip does not understand is that we have a coalition and the LDs will need their wins which does not sit well with the likes of me but nevertheless the coalition is better than the Labour alternative and we must accept compromises.
Philip - I suggest that you wait a bit. You are completely off track on a lot of those matters and should see what is actually done. when they get a chance to do them, 4 months into the government is hardly enough time to deal with the deficit as one example.... The budget shows the way, eliminating the deficit in 5 years, something that is impossible to do instantly. - After the votes by the Reds the blues can now go back to the polls and have all the power on their own for the next ten years or more
- VIC;
I realise on the political front you have got things wrong, but on this one you realy are way off the mark.
Labour's on the way back, look at the bye election results
labour dfeated lib dems in Exeter now control council
labour largest party in norwich after bye elction
and labour got rid of BNP in Dagenham
on the way back matey
and this is just the start - It occurred to me that statistically labour will have to wait at least two or possibly three or four more terms before it has any hope of re-election. I would say that they will definitely find election success at some point over this period this is a given and factors in boredom, scandal, political and social upheaval among the reasons there is the cyclical swing from red to blue and back again.
However over this period the wait for nu-labour, ed-labour or whichever flavour labour is trendy at the time might be longer than even dyed in the wool labour supporters would hope for.
Looking back over decades at voting patterns what appears is generally one or two terms of Conservative Government followed by one socialist. As Margaret Thatcher once referred to the trouble with labour Governments is that they run out of other peoples money or words to that effect.
So, in general, the country seems to tick over quite well, taxes are lowered, business and entrepreneurhip is encouraged and rewarded, employment rates go up and in general people feel alot freer and go about their lives reasonably happily.
Then, come the inevitable swing backwards (pun intended) the voting public dare to place their cross in the wrong box for one, all or other of the above reasons I mentioned earlier. Combined with those who only vote because their great, great, great Grandfather voted labour then hey presto that's what we get. They enjoy the fruits of an economy doing non too badly and take the plunge. Hey what the hell why not eh? What could possibly go wrong?
However the big game changer now is that there is no money. It's gone. Oops. But, hey, Tony said, Gordon said that..........Oh crikey what a mug. I fell for it all. What to do now?
No money. No money for years and years. No job security, no nuffink!
This is the game changer then. People will feel less inclined to experiment with their lives again when they remember how they were well and truly conned by the socialists. Expect a massive swing to the right over the next few years.
However, the big game changer - PHILIP;
Of course I disagree with most of your posting.
If we look at past Govts on the blue side, we had mortgage rates sky high and through this I nearly lost my house,
we had the dreaded poll tax. where we all paid a lot more(we not all those on high incomes did ok)
3 million people chucked on the dole and encouraged by maggie at the time.
Just a few of the reasons why I want this lot out.
The Lib Dems would probably hold the tories to account a little, but as MAREK says theres so many cracks within the lib dem cam nationally and in govt it's just a matter of time
- The thing is that labour have elected an idiot to lead them. You only have to look at the department he led, why it was set up and the fact that he truly believed in what that department of Government stood for to see that. Truly a joyous day for any sensible right minded follower of current affairs. The longer he stays as leader the better for all I say.
- looking at the statistics above supplied by barry, i note that part members all have a vote.
how many members of the blue party have a say in who would lead them?
a round figure, i believe. - Howard - The Conservative Party has a one member one vote system.
Labour can have up to 5 votes per member....madness - BARRYW
An interesting view, not correct, 17 months time labour will be the Government.
And Its so pleasing the party is rallying behind the new leader
and on the way back - Hardly Keith - Batty Hatty had 4 votes and her hubby 3. depending on her membership of different organisations she could have added another vote....
Not my idea of democracy, but then the Labour Party is a very weird beast. - roll on 17 months time and we can get back into goverment and be rid of this lot who's ambition is to destroy us all
- Thats very silly Keith.
- Conference season here, the Lib Dem was fairly poor, conferences changed so much, all stage managed.
Today a few sparks ignited, Yvette Cooper MP gave a passionate speech, as has the Scottish labour party leader Iian Gray.
Its all looking good - Well it was something of an odd result, selecting young Ed over and above David, but here we are. I guess its what Labour people all round wanted. But one cant help but feel that its like giving the new apprentice the key to the executive washroom. He looks so green and more than a tad bewildered.
But on the up side, the people these new guys are replacing are now looking rather ancient. See how old and tired they look in marketing terms. Gordon Brown spoke the other day, but in the interim time where he had some months off, he seems to have added weight and aged considerably.
So a whole brace of new guys young and fresh could just work out as a bit of a coup for Labour, as Ed Miliband said, one person a minute has joined the Labour Party since he won, and in fact since last May, 35,000 new people have joined up with Labour ..figures from Ms Harman herself.
So Ed might just catch a rising tide of youth, a new wave, not to mention a flock of disgruntled and disillusioned Libdems on the rebound. - i can remember mrs thatcher gaining selection back in the seventies, the reds had a good laugh and harold wilson used to patronise her in the commons.
toughened her up and she went on to win an election or too.
interesting to see whether ed does the same for the reds. - Red Ed is a different kettle of fish, Howard - Mrs T did not have her words thrown back at her by the IMF a day after she was elected.
Red Ed's whole economic outlook has been trashed and either he does a U Turn or he will simply look a complete fool.
He does already but if he speaks out, apologises for Labour's screw-ups and accepts the need for cuts with dignity he can rescue someting. But I dont think he has it in him. - EDS the man, and as has been said many times the fight bk starts today, its going to be an interesting 17 months
- what i cannot understand is that with the left wing leanings of ed, not one tabloid has referred to him as ed militant yet, i must be missing something here.
- HOWARD;
Does ED strike you as a lefty
he don't me
thats probably why - He seems to lack a certain amount of, let's say, gravitas which is something that leaders need in order to get things done and gain the respect of others both nationally and internationally.
He reminds me of the head boy in my old school. - Once we get past his leaders speech, and David decides what he wants to do, and we get past the conference season we can then get back to business.
- As I said in an earlier posting Big Dave will show us all that in the end He is as red as any dyed in the wool socialist punch drunk on labour policies. He told us that there were lines drawn in the sand in terms of EU power and influence in the UK and any more seepage in that respect would trigger a referendum. Well upon reading the latest news from our glorious European partners they intend to open what the Mail has described as an "open door" to EU benefit tourists.
Using human rights legislation hundreds of thousands of EU citizens will have full access to benefits paid for by yours truly and my fellow countrymen and women.
Of course Duncan Smith has vowed to fight this on the beaches and in the courts but of course after all is said and done and the case finally ends up in Europe on home ground We will lose and they will win.
When the inevitable happens will Dave give us a say or wring his hands and tell us there is nothing we can do but we can fight to save the bendy banana?
I suspect copious amounts of hand lotion to be ordered to number 10. - PHILIP;
i THINK the Idea that our ED is a socialist in my lefty terms, maybe not so, Is he Labour, yes of course he is.
He has a touh job ahead, family wise, leader wise, getting ready to be prime minister in 17 months time wise.
So lets see - personally i am more interested whether he will be a good leader of the opposition, the labels of left, right, socialist etc are outdated.
i have seen many traditionally left statements issued by the government and the right wing stuff from the reds. - The 'Red Ed' tag is just the Conservative spin machine working over time, looking to scupper and derail his launch into bigtime politics. I remember the red guys in the sevenites and yes they were indeed red and nothing at all like Ed Miliband. I cant see this guy as the least bit "REd". Comfortably middle class and mainstream more like.
He made a good cosy speech today, acknowledging the successes of the past but also the failures. Highlighting the arrival of the new generation in politics. It wasnt a rip roaring barnstormer, how one longs for a speaker like Michael Foot at times like this, but nevertheless he said all the right engaging things and even mustered a few laughs.
Still too early to say how good he is going to be, but he is earnest and shows all the right social concerns on immigration and poverty and so on. And for Labour the only way is up from here. - Anyone who believes this bloke needs their heads testing. More lies and spin from a party desperate to get back into power. He talks about broken politics blah, blah, blah. Bleat, bleat, bleat because they lost the election. Ahh shame the poor dears.
Yes let them champion the dinner ladies of the world.
Dinner ladies of the world unite!
Dinner ladies united will never be defeated.
One two three four hear the dinner ladies roar.
This fella is a joke. - All rather sad that someone who pointed out that he was educated in Portakabins ( gets PPE Oxford Corpus) claims that lack of investment in new schools will affect the building industry.
Yes it will. But it is going to make bugger all effect on Education? - Bob
Portakabin!! Sheer luxury lad. I was educated by the Brothers of Satan in an 'ole in'th ground.We went to school in clogs which we had to burn to keep fire goin'.We were thrashed to within one inch of our lives and buggered senseless..did thee the world of good.We had dripping butties for lunch using salt we had to mine afore breakfast.
Portakabins they don't know their born kids these days. - We can all larf, but the clock ticks now for our ED to get his arse in gear.
It wasn't a bad speech, recognising the fauts, but wanting to move forward.
The passion's there, he now has 17 months to get ready,
Today was the first day on the way back to govt. - I suppose it helps for a belly dancer to have some assets in her locker, most notably a belly...yes I suppose a belly is good if one aspires to be a belly dancer. This asset is needed so that it can be shaken all over the customers mousakka during one of those long wild conference evenings when there's nothing much else to do, other than look at old speeches by Tony Blair in the solitude of your hotel room.
Yes the 'I love my brother' thing went on a bit too long but I hear David has already left the conference, and underneath is I guess a disappointed man. " I was planning a different kind of week" said he on TV the other day.
Its very hard to know about Ed...very hard to know if he is good or not. Some pundits were saying other notable leaders had poor first speeches but rallied up later, so it should be interesting to watch and see. - It appears that David is going to make an annmoucement today.
It does look likely that he is going to go, sad realy as he has a lot to offer.
But it's understandable he's just beedn through a leadership election which he lost, he now has to decide what to do next.
I hope DAVID stays in politics in some way, as he has a lot of talent. - The dancers featured above represent very well the spending review which will be revealed in a few weeks time.
The slimmer dancer or at least her belly might represent the effect of cuts to, say,defence spending which Liam Fox has complained about as reported today.
The more obese belly represents Mr. Camerons spending on what he considers is the most important threat to the world today namely climate change.
So one dancer is starved and looks like she is verging on the edge of an eating disorder whilst the other is bloated and in need of surgery and extended therapy to save her deluded mind.
- Well my last post went down like a lead balloon. Still who cares eh?
Whilst we're on the subject, loser, I mean loser in the last election and definitely not loser in any other terms Gywn Prosser was quoted on one of the Kent news websites as saying this.
“David is very academic, but Ed seems more human.”
Well, as they say, Stephen Fry is the stupid mans idea of an intellectual so the same seems to go for David Milliband.
An academic? Really? He's got to be having a laugh surely?
And human to describe Ed? What in Gee willikas does that mean?
I have a dog and it's an animal.
I have a tree in my back garden and it doesn't eat snails.
I'm fast re-examining my appraisal of G's loser status. - PHILIP;
iT iS WIthout doubt Ed's an the party job over next 17 months to convince people Labour is the alternative ready to Govern.
Something they said they will do, let's give ED that chance - You might have a point there Keith. After all when more people get to find out how Tim Yeo, who sits on the energy and climate change select committee and is in fact its chairman is actually, wait for it, opposing the building of a windfarm near his constituency.
What an absolute, bare faced hypocrite wouldn't you agree?
So you have this politician who has business interests in the climate change con and who sits on one of the most important government committees in the UK according to that fellow idiot William Hague who considers climate change to pose a bigger threat than international terrorism turning round and being the biggest nimby in the world of nimbyland.
And the worst of this is that David Cameron follows this religion with even more zeal than John Travolta and Scientology.
I've been accused of being obsessive on this subject but when it affects our pockets to the tune of thousands of pounds per year, business and economic interests which we all depend on and the UK's foreign and defence policy then you should all be very angry and not simply write me off as an obsessive.
Vote Tory and get Caroline Lucas.
What a wasted vote mine was at the last election and I shall never make the same on again. - PHILIP;
I think you will find many are thinking like you.
so much so labour membership up 35,000 since the general election - 35,000 eh? Are you counting those infamous postal votes from the Midlands? In which case judging by labour's record on these matters no doubt they will manage to increase their membership although a visit the houses that this supposed membership live in will probably find nobody at home.
Brilliant news that ed has been elected if the endorsements from the likes of kinnock and the unions is anything to go by. - I think that the offer of membership for £1 for those under 27 might have helped, hence all the the children sitting behind Edward when he made his speech.
- BOB;
hAD YOU BOTHERED TO listen to the conference(which you didnt) many of those behind the main platform, were lib dems cllrs and tory cllr who crosse the floor.
And lots of new members 1 a minute
that aint bad
and something to build on. - you mention the woolly headed sandal wearing brigade barry, i bet they do not have holes in their socks. far too easy for a political enemy to spot.
- Socks with their sandals, I see.......very sartorially elegant. No socks, then I bet they show black toenails uuuuughhh.
Better a small hole in your socks. Tell me Howard, do you throw yours away as soon as you spot the tiniest hole? - Howard has a little lady who darns his socks
- not true susan unfortunately.
barry, i am the complete opposite to you, i bin anything that shows signs of wear, if i get fed up with something it goes down the charity shop just so that it is not wasted.
- I have met men like you before Howard .I have often found myself binned
- i doubt there is a man alive that would dare do such a thing to you susan.
you make mrs thatcher look like a doormat. - Come on Barry. You know it, I know it, We all know it.
Lighter prison sentences.
More green taxes and eco red tape for business's.
The sandal wearing brigade will be appeased and will do very well out of the conference.
Pretend to do something radical in education policy.
Ken Clarke will remain in office.
Chris Huhne will remain in office.
Tim Yeo will remain in office.
Caroline Spelman will remain in office.
William Hague will remain in office.
All in all business as usual. Move on nothing to see here. - Incidentally, what provision will the Tories make for repealing the new equalities act or whatever nonsense name the labour mindless have called it?
I suspect that Dave will not only embrace the act but add to the list of victims - climate change campaigners,, fox hunting opponents and all manner of the weird and wonderful that make up the mix of this glorious country we live in.
This conference promises to be a damp squib and no mistake. - Philip - to govern there must be compromises and while I detest so much of what the LDs have done to water down Conservative policy, Human Rights, so called equality legislation, green issues etc - it is necessary until we get an overall Conservative majority. the economy must be put right, that is the priority.
William Hague incidentally is first class, so yes I would hope he does remain in office...and there is nothing by way or pretence in education. - BARRYW
I'm sure you mean all those tory people you feel are first class????
On willy hague, he is a good politician, knows his stuff, and put up for leader at the wrong time, when the tories were in turmoil.
I actually think he would make a good P.M.
Ken clarke is ok, and sticks to his guns, but not sure of hios survival chances in this govt
- The excellent Rory Stewart M.P. is the one to watch. (Remember where you read it first!)
- BOB
Just looked him up on his web page
is he the ONLY tory MP in scotland??? - Keith. Perhaps you should have used an atlas as well as a web page??? Penrith & Borders is in England!
- BOB DEAL
Just testing to see if any one reads the postings
of course I knew the MP represents a cumbria area - I've just seen the revamped (presumably for conference only) Tory party logo. Are they trying to be ironic or deliberately provocative?
- PHILIP
Short answer is yes - Keith it was I who was being ironic. You can't say yes to both possible answers.
My point was to highlight the fact that it is more important now than ever to remain vigilant of any plans for a further slide into all things European. I hope this is in the minds of those at the top although the lisbon treaty being self ammending would probably put paid to that. - valid point philip, not many know about the self amending treaty.
hague does though, not that he has any intention of doing anything about opting out of it. - Indeed Howard which is why, amongst other reasons why I'm disappointed that Hague is still holding office. Not only will he do absolutely nothing to halt the slide of our affairs being conducted and overridden by Brussels but this Man has been quoted saying this the other day when He attended a jolly across the pond to the council of foreign relations, whoever these clowns are.
"Climate change is perhaps the twenty-first century’s biggest foreign policy challenge along with such challenges as preventing the spread of nuclear weapons."
and, if you can keep a straight face,
"Ban Ki-moon is right to have made climate change his top priority. Two weeks ago I talked of Britain’s values in a networked world. I said then that a successful response to climate change must be a central objective of British foreign policy. I said this not only because I believe action against climate change is in line with a values-based foreign policy, but because it underpins our prosperity and security."
"The clock is ticking. The time to act is now."
It's a long speech but puts into perspective what kind of foreign secretary this bloke really is. He sounds more like John Prescott than any Conservative minister and don't expect him to fight our corner in negotiations that might arise in Europe. - Howard - if you think Hague can do anything about opting out of a fully ratified treaty Labour landed us with then you are living in a dream world.
- I go back to other postings do like Hague as a politician
- when i listen to our foriegn secretary i get the distinct impression that he is more and more being sucked into the european bureaucracy ideal, i am not alone in that view barry.
- IDS is on beeb2 at present...for all you Tory fans and groupies
- watched a few minutes of boris speaking, entertaining as always.
switched to the ryder cup,much more important. - IDS most impressive. Thank God that his intellect and common sense have been recognised and what a shame that Frank Field has not been given the same prominence with the Opposition.
- Good to see the liberal conference finally in full swing. Spelman, Letwin (or should that be leftwing I can't quite make my mind up) Boris Johnson making a complete buffoon of himself (no change there then I guess).
All in all a predictable day so far as these things go. No doubt the faithful will see this a grand success but such is the power of propaganda. - philip
you must admit that boris is an entertaining character may even make a good mayor of london if the team behind have the brains to match his gusto.
it is said that he has ambitions to reach the highest office in the land, should be fun watching him try. - PHLIP;
boris Is a character, not man y left these days,
He's amusing, whether anyone still takes him seriously is another matter - what i have never understood is why the blues gave boris the cast iron safe seat of henley vacated by mr heseltine.
usually our political masters fast track a potential cabinet member by giving them an easy winnable.
tony blair in sedgefield is a prime example. - Wow, you lot really do not see it do you. Boris is highly intelligent and clever, he pretends to be a buffoon so people underestimate him. I speak as probably the only one on this forum to have met him and to have spent some time alone talking to him with none of the buffoonery he chooses to display in public. What you are saying gives a small clue to how clever he is, fooled you all....
- nice try barry, he has been on the sort of television programmes that michael portillo and diane abbot have.
all true lightweights. - He's clever of course. As clever as anyone who has been through a decent schooling system but is not highly intelligent. He gives that impression of course but only in the same way as one might read him as some sort of Bertie Wooster character which is similar to the persona he has chosen to adopt. He's not what you would call an original thinker by any means and is able to rattle off classical Greek phrases like the rest of them similar to the likes of, say, Stephen Fry the stupid mans idea of an intellectual.
Johnson has changed his tune on so many issues purely that they might further his career it's just not true.
Amnesties for illegal immigrants? A complete and utter reversal of his views on the environment? The Boris bike scheme - do you really think he thought that one up himself?
- Having said all that he is a highly entertaining speaker and what he had to say about strikes and banking cuts to the heart of some of the important issues facing us all. The biggest danger that faces the coalition is that the opposition will choose all the easy targets to attack the Tories with (mainly cuts) and it is crucial that the Government rebuff this head on.
- Boris, is clever for that there is no doubt.
But for anyone who doesn't know him he wouldn't across that way. - Note what they say about people who play the piano 'badly' for entertainment - they have to be good pianists to do so. Same thing here.
Who was that comedian known for that? Ernie Wise or perhaps Eric Morecombe, I forget...
By the way Philip, if thinking and saying something daft means they are unintelligent where does that leave just about all members of the Labour Party - slobbering around in a loony bin unable to even feed themselves? - BARRYW
I think your last post Is a disgusting to ALL members/supporters of the Labour party, and I take the unusual step of askng Paulb/Howard to review it and consider if In the Interests of the forum t should remain? - oh I think its okay Keef. Just a bit of political shenanigans. Everyone knows the Labour guys have as many bright sparks as the Conservatives so BarryW's comment must be taken with a grain of sea salt. I say sea salt as its much more politically correct than ordinary salt, as ordinary salt can play havoc with yer innards. Must be politically correct these days!
It is true that people get offended by things, which I know only too well at this end, but hopefully thats just seen as a bit of shenanigans.
It was Les Dawson that played the piano off key. - Keith - read what I actually said. Once again English comprehension is at fault. The little word 'if' is an important one.
- Eric Morecombe played all the right notes but in the wrong places, a bit like David M's votes. As for politically correct salt, it has to be the low salt salt - better for your health as you can't get it out of the shaker.
A bit slow on this comment but I always enjoy Boris on Mayor's question time, you see then what a sharp mind he has. - I've just been reading Roger Helmer's blog and it's really rather depressing reading. Roger Helmer is a Conservative MEP and he talks about being whipped into voting for the new EU diplomatic service on what he describes as "on instructions from London". Apparently the Conservative manifesto expressly opposed this measure. He then talks about Teresa May's voluntary commitment to sign up to the EU investigation order. We've also agreed to sign up to control of the city financials to Brussels. He goes on to talk about the referendum lock which is non-existent.
Have a read and learn from someone who is actually in the thick of it, at the coalface so to speak and not clapping stupidly to the nonsense and hot air of conference.
Perhaps you will see why so many are disenchanted with the likes of Hague and Cameron and Yeo and Clarke and May and Spelman and Johnson and in fact virtually all of the front bench. - ITS YOUR FORUM PAULB
My only concern is to get more people contributng.
You should look at the times it happens
- C'mon Barry and Keef lighten up.Let's try and keep the insults to a trickle.Keef is always polite.As for 'labour supporters
"...if thinking and saying something daft means they are unintelligent where does that leave just about all members of the Labour Party - slobbering around in a loony bin unable to even feed themselves?..."
I think that's slightly unfair on the poor people whom my wifes team have to care for at the residential home that require 24 hourcare and assistance with feeding. Mind you the Tories will probably scrap all council care homes and carers in a bid to save yet more dish dosh.They want to scrap free bus passes and the winter fuel allowance by the end of their time in office. - nice family shot above.
the new top rate of benefit is just a fudge.
it is being set at £.26,000 this is the same as £.35,000 before tax, hardly going to encourage people to work.
£.15,000 is a bit nearer the mark, anything more than that is a kick in the teeth to our army of low paid workers. - MAREK;
At last, a voice of reason!!!!!!!!
I do have a laugh, I do give my point of view, and like yourself I disagree with barryw most of the time.
To me and most posters I speak to Its good to have debate, not just a one sided Daily Mail tory party forum.
I have always been very light hearted, and thats why at one point I put up two post's where barryw and I would agree(there are more)
Any way tommorow's another day
On the questiion above everyone agrees there is a need to reform
It's about fairness
and at the moment there are flaws in I.D.S.'s proposals. - I found it difficult to feel compassion for the woman and then I noticed that, looking at her youngest, she is now reduced to having sex with a 'ginger'. Poor woman......
- lucky woman getting 26k a year,two foreign holidays a yearlaptop and ps3s for the kids,bet she didnt pay for them out of benifits either.
going back a few years [at least 25] during my periods of unenployment i was lucky to see 4k a year [married 7 kids] and had to fight for every penny.
holidays where a night mare picnic on the beach or local park was all we could run to. - brian,
7 children indeed, i can confirm that you have now been shortlisted for the annual chris precious award, this year sponsored by the london rubber company. - You was not a single mum Brian - the girl was interviewed and she gave the details of her benefits. She said the 5th child brought in enough extra benefits for the boob job....
- Here is a thought. Paid for by the public purse means her boobs must be public property!!! Oh, of course they are, 4 dads for 5 kids.. Que up fellers
- Barry please could you use the 'spell check' on your P.C. as you have difficulty spelling some words correctly.
Nothing personal Barry i'm only joking, as you were with our Keith. - I was not joking - Alan. I do make the odd error, dont we all. the main probelm I have with Keith is not spelling or grammar but comprehension, whether its deliberate or whether he really does not understand.
- howard,thanks for the nomination,the wife says can she have the strwbarry chocolate flavor ones please.
- barry
ken clarke is a thinking man, instead of a knee jerk flog 'em mesage to placate the conference audience he has actually come out with what i have been advocating for years.
let prisoners earn their keep and any money left over to go to the victims of crime. - Howard,
Perhaps 85,495 prisoners (as of 1/10 and just more than 2,000 short of the usable operational capacity of 87,638) on treadmills could give the Thanet Wind Farm a bit of competition? - Well I watched the speech earlier ( I really must get a life) and what possessed me to do so is still a question I'm pondering - let's put it down to one of life's great questions and leave it at that.
Anyhow I think Bob from Deal is onto something here using treadmills for energy. What should have happened is that the conference should have been held in Thanet and all north facing windows opened whilst Dave made his big speech. The hot and fast moving air from his lips could have in some small way helped to power that big wind farm off the coast.
Still at least, as leader of the greenest government or so he told us when he was elected the phrase climate change wasn't mentioned once. Yes that's right folks it appears that him and five houses Huhne must have had a big punch up in the bar the night before.
The only downside to this was that we were all treated to the usual waffle and vacuousness that we've been used to hearing since he was elected leader of the Tories.
Shut your eyes and you could have imagined Tony Blair making the same speech.
Oh well back to dreaming of what could have been. The funny thing is that I remember being assured that things would change and sensible policies taking into account traditional Tory values would be presented. Perhaps I fell asleep halfway through and only caught the beginning and end of his musings. - biggest load of waffle ive ever heard,and thats not counting the lip servise.
if he is an angery man well wot i saw a chain saw is more angry,he came over like a piece of limp lettuse. - i thought it was a very impassioned speech much along the lines of tony blair at his peak as has been said here already.
saw the bit this evening where dave rattled on about the big society.
the faces in the audience said it all, he would have got a much better reaction if he had turned his back and broke wind very loudly into the microphone. - bit of a tv star now howard,hope you read the small print before you signed on the dotted line.lol
- rest assured brian, my 10 seconds of fame will not change me.
i promise to remain the same irritating toerag that i have always been. - Just wondering if anyone has been following the latest scandal surrounding the 10:10 campaign which David Cameron has signed up to along with the rest of his green cohorts in government. Type in 10:10 into your favourite search engine because the BBC news television channels have refused to cover this story and find out exactly where some of your hard earned tax pennies have been siphoned off to and the mindset of those who support this campaign.
A theory:
Perhaps this is why Mr. Cameron failed to mention climate change in his speech yesterday. - Bob: You said "Perhaps 85,495 prisoners (as of 1/10 and just more than 2,000 short of the usable operational capacity of 87,638) on treadmills could give the Thanet Wind Farm a bit of competition?"!"
Now that is good thinking.... Green environmentally friendly hard work that does create competitive problems. - i see that the young lady above has made front page of the current bun.gos on saying that the female scrouger [there words not mine]got a boob job for 4500k,good luck to her.
ps.just wondering how big the back hander she recieved for the story. - thought it was the daily star brian, either way she knows what she is doing.
in today's world a bit of fame overrides any embarrassment for some. - howard,you may be right,just glanced as i walked past.
- But Barry, how can a woman who has five children possibly go to work? To bring up five children is work in itself, you know!
It involves cleaning the house as well and cooking too, and washing all the clothes. Have some compassion man! - quite right alex, how she finds the time to watch reruns of the jeremy jyle show is beyond me.
the comments from blue barry are lacking in understanding of her plight. - I trust Howard and Alex your tongues were firmly in your cheeks.
- BAZ;
In those very early day's you would probably find It hard to find a good employer to the slaves, although as you say, there was a different climate then.
Moving forward In years, I loved the LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR programme, the white man calling the black man next door what would be described as racst today.
And the black man calling the white man a white honkey.
Is was all a laugh, and the black man and the white were interviewed some 20 years later about the programme, and neither said they were offended, and it was just comedy.
I had a black friend as a child but don't recall ever calling hm anything other than his correct name.
We don't want to offend people, so it is a thin dividing line - Love Thy Neighbour was a favourite of mine too - sad they wont repeat it!
As for employer's, well its all relative...or should be, thats the point. - BAZ;
Strange realy they interviewed both actors, although the black guy said it was comedy, he added he did see today how it could be seen as offensive.
Neither the white or black actor would do the series again given the chance.
I have to admit I watched every episode and loved it - They have all eight series of this on DVD (Amazon). Plus the movie...
Oddly the last 4 series and the movie are only £4.49 each while the first series is a whacking £27.28 and s2 and 3 around £12 each - odd pricing!!!! I dont think I will spend out that much for it.
Never realised there were so many series and a movie... - i remember when muhammad ali has his star in the ascendancy and in true american style they tried to enlist him as a holywood actor.
this appealed to his ego and all was going according to plan when he found out that the character he would be playing was called "sam". - Barry your first mistake was to listen to radio 4 in the first place. The first and last of liberal, left wing metropolitan media bias. You would be better off ditching the radio and taking in some of the more interesting American radio stations. At least you get a far more even balance.
Your'd be hard pushed to find any news programme, documentary, "comedy", an oxymoron made for that station, arts programme or weather forecast which isn't tainted by luvvies, lefties, ecoloons or has-beens making a comeback.
Among the elclectic mix of those who are much vaunted by the Islington set include,
John, I hate Tories, Humphreys,
Marcus, George Bush is a fascist, Brigstocke,
Jenni, what about the wimmin, Murray,
Stephen, Oh God there is no point to it all no point at all, Fry,
Francine, so where does the gulf oil spill mean Ukrainian arts are heading, Stock,
Jonathon, I am a friend of jug ears and he talks to plants and he will be King and I will lick his boots, Dimbleby,
Sandy, eeooeye tork loike a trooool and haaaiiitttee Jorggg Bush, Toksvig,
and not forgetting Mitchell, we are both useless but leftwing enough to keep hanging on to this little provincial radio station, and Webb.
There are more but you get my drift. - Actually something just occurred to me this second and I thought I would share the question with you all. We've all seen pictures of celebs and WAGs who have gone overboard with the fake tan or spent ten minutes too long on the sunbed. When the colour of their face is pointed out as being a distinct orange colour, usually with much hilarity, could this be described as being in any way colour prejudiced?
- the late great bernard manning once said "i remember des o'connor when he was white".
- thoroughly enjoyed your earlier rant philip, won't put me off of listening to the today programme on radio 4 though.
you cannot beat a winters morning sitting up in bed with a cup of tea listening to the articulate people chat away whilst the cat is freezing to death outside on the window sill, eyes pleading to be let in. - I do understand Howard but I guess childhood trauma of some description or another leaves me in the position where I feel forced to press the ubiquitous on button and yet again tune in to Hampstead's favourite mindfix. Perhaps self flaggellation or some other such affliction, who knows? I've applied to the local council to allow me a free recycle bin labelled "Radios" as my back garden is stacked two feet high with sets which I have thrown against the wall - very hard!
You and yours usually does the trick. Do you know 65% of the broken wireless sets in my house are damaged beyond economic repair due to that show alone? They should rename it something like "Climate change daily" or "Windfarm hour" due to it's constant coverage of this notable public health scare. If they're not covering that issue it'll be something like some poor berk who had to wait more than five minutes in the queue at the local Natwest. Oh the horror. "We tried to speak to a minister about this pressing matter and his department issued this statement "Tough bleedin ti....".
The remaining 35% consists of a mixture of programmes such as "Costing the Earth" (Costing my licence fee more like) and A history of the world in a thousand objects.
Costing the Earth is well past it's sell by date. "Tonight I speak to Professor emeritas Sir Ronald Upyerbum regarding the imminent demise of Tyrannosaurus Rex brought about by climate change. He's rather worried about it, followed by everyone's favourite econut MP who represents the Nationally Deluded Party who in her latest rant says that all sceptics should be forced to cut off one digit as part of the 10:10 campaign".
The thousand objects programme consists of pointless pieces of ancient household objects such as basic cooking vessels, pieces of wood to keep the boulder from moving and blocking the cave entrance and other such items thrown out by sensible cave dwellers who would be laughing their bo socks off if they found out that a series of radio shows would be aired and presented by some pompous fool against a backdrop of whale noises which passes as music on this channel. "This twig.......this unprepossessing artifact represents the whole history and story that is the great kingdom of Sudan".
Christ, The World tonight is just about to start. Must dash. - you're not bob frost posting under a pseudonym are you?
- Nope not Me Howard. Just an ordinary citizen doing his best to make spurious, ridiculous and inane comments about things of no particular significance. You might be pleased to know that this latest radio set is safe tonight although after checking the radio 4 schedule tonights installment of 100 objects is about a jade ring and the Chinese enlightenment or some such stuff. Make it interesting or the wireless gets it.
- The way you bantered with your friend sounds similar to the way my Asian housmate and I used to interact when I was at uni. Those days have not gone, Barry. Strange and ironic how people's caution surrounding race and pc seems to create tensions which do not really exist with race and pc.
Who or what are the PC brigade? Or the health and safety Nazis? You hear a report of one daft and wholly unnecessary decision and the stories are spun into a "why oh why" frenzy where allegedly sensible people get tricked into believing that these things are the norm and not the exception.
During the world cup I had my St George's flag flying in my classroom. The girls were under the impression that it was illegal or something, or that maybe the Iranian teacher with whom I shared the classroom would be offended. Of course it's not illegal, no one asked me to remove it (the Headteacher and deputies all knew I had it up) and Seyed was also supporting England in the world cup. Many people would have been over cautious with the flag - a decision they might have arrived at entirely by their own strange idea of pc, and NOT what pc actually is.
Churchill et al clearly were racists (and very sexist) simply by the definitions of the words. That is not to say that they deserve condemnation or judgement by modern standards because you are right - that was how it was at the time. However, you can't pretend that he wasn't racist. The definition of the word has not changed! - MATT;
Love it, yep you hit the nail on the head.
fantastic posting - many people like to be offended on someone else's behalf.
there was criticism of the wheelchair based character in "little britain", despite him being a cult hero to young disabled people.
a charity shop chain banned all signs of christmas in their shops one year for fear of offending muslims, no muslims had requested it and they felt that people would blame them for the ridiculous decision. - Well it's too late now for hand wringing now that the new equalities act has come into force with some of the greatest support from no other than David Cameron of the lib dems. Find out what the act entails and you will be hurling your computers against the wall, a la the wireless sets which lie dead in my back yard - a whole two feet deep!
By the way I did laugh at the postman being selected as shadow chancellor who openly admitted that he has no clue as to what the job entails. Mind you at least he's being more honest than most. Shame Cameron or Huhne don't do something like that and tell the world they haven't a clue about running a Government.
Still come next election Cameron might mature and cross the floor and join the Conservatives. - The thing that I have never got my head around is the call for some sort of reparation for the slave trade.
If I was of African extraction I would far rather that my great grandad had been taken abroad as a slave, giving me the opportunity to use the educational and medical benefits of the Caribbean or the USA, rather than being born in some Hell Hole in Africa. - don't know they are born.
reminds me of when black adder was planning to do a runner to the west indies and told baldrick that he would stand out there.
the servant enquired as to why, the reply came back that he would be the only white slave. - I will be a little later than normal updating with the next blog - very busy today, 5 meetings - will try to find 10 mins later though...
- It's a very divisive issue this one. The Tories have always (up until relatively recently that is) trumpeted policies which are aimed to shore up "the family" and rightfully so in my opinion.
Therefore by combining the two incomes it makes sense to treat them as one and not separately otherwise some might see it as another chink in the armour of family value policies. Why get married if there is no financial reason to do so some might ask.
The whole thing is a complete mess but my gut instinct has always led me to believe that universal benefits are wrong and are essentially a socialist construct.
This includes free bus passes. They should certainly be means tested alongside the winter fuel allowance and the BBC licence fee.
Just because these benefits exist does not make them right in the first place. The mindset of universal benefits has created a give me give me society in the way that the massive welfare state has led to high levels of unemployment in this country as well as a huge underclass.
But, of course, howwid ideas such as ditching these handouts are an affront to the North London media and political mafia so an uphill fight will ensue. - I should add that not to end universal benefits is like cutting the budget for spitfires in 1939.
- probably you most interesting blog yet barry, no political points here.
thrown a rather different light on things, pension contributions and moving out of a tax band make it very confusing.
i reckon you have given this more thought than the chancellor. - Personally, I think that at the end of the day, a lot comes down to whether the family is paying mortgage or other rates. Suppose the net income were 80.000 pounds a year, but the house is being paid off on mortgage? In Britain, houses are notoriously over-priced, I'd say by about 100-200%
- Alexander - houses are priced at whatever people are willing and able to pay. That is how the market works.
Right now prices are coming down due to a range of factors but they will not come down anywhere near as far as you suggest. - Two things really get my goat about this issue. The first is the fact that Tim Yeo is still in office and the second that Andrew Marr is still employed by the BBC.
Child benefit? In the end it's really a non-issue and is dwarfed by much bigger matters. I think you are right Barry when you call it a false one. - Barry, I believe the house price inflation has been caused not only by 'cheap money' but the gearing offered by banks/building societies. When I first got a mortgage it was based upon 3 times my salary + 1 times my partner's + I put in 20% of the house price from savings.
I was earning an 'average' salary at that time. Taking £25,000 to be an 'average' salary nowadays that would give me under £120,000 to play with which would buy me next to nothing. At the time it bought me a two bedroomed house with a garden in Outer London.
One also looks at 'savings,what savings' when many youngsters still have a student loan of £20,000+. - Bob - yes there was a large element to that. It was a response to the low interest rate environment and the silly feeling that it would never end. There was certainly some irresponsible borrowing and lending going on. There has been a big tightening of lending criteria and that is having some impact on bringing prices down added to concerns over employment.
There is a huge and increasing problem regarding the low level of savings. You have certainly hit a nail on the head there, a demographic time bomb that must be addressed. - Barry - Once upon a time there used to be a thing called 'displaced gratification' by psychologists which the 'middle classes' used to be good at.
Rather than seeking immediate 'gratification' we/they would invest in forgoing immediate pleasure in the expectation of reaping rewards later.
Wives did not go out to work whilst raising children, holidays were foregone as were new cars, investment in pensions was made.
Somewhere it all went wrong. I have always believed that capitalism was about efficiency of supply and demand. At some point it became about individual greed.
1 Timothy 6:10 sums it up. - Where it went wrong Bob is in respect of values.
Too many people these days have no values and no understanding of what is important in life. That provides them with a distorted agenda.
The sad thing is that for so many reality will bite when it is too late and they find that their lifestyle has left them with debt and little or no income in retirement. It is very self-defeating ultimately. - i read bob's post as referring to quality of life rather than simply standard of living.
- ........"Too many people these days have no values and no understanding of what is important in life. That provides them with a distorted agenda".
You have to look no further than the Conservatives, liberals and the labour party for proof of that Barry
- Howard - so did I, he also referred to pensions and saving. my answer was directly in that full context.
Philip - this was not a Party political point and it is not one. You cannot blame governments or political parties for everything, we as individuals have to take the blame (and credit where appropriate) for what we do. - That is a wise post, Barry! Well done!
- I don't know if anyone is aware of foreclosuregate across the pond but it's a big story. Lucky it couldn't possibly happen here.
- if 90% of blues are eurosceptic why did only 37 vote for the amendment, also why are the government lying down on this issue?
i would think that even the lesser force in the coalition would fight against paying this extra dosh. - As soon as I read the name of Zac Goldsmith somehow I knew it would lead to a mega fail.
- Howard - whipping and loyalty is the answer.
In the present circumstances the 37 voting for the amendment is a highly significant figure and it shows that the backbench vote cannot be taken for granted. This is a good thing as it provides a balance to the LDs. - Barry, if the e.u. go ahead and get that extra money off us, the whole spending-cuts scheme of Gov. will have been just to hand over the whole sum to the e.u.
Are people serious when they say we have to stay in the e.u.?
Well keep up the campaign anyway, this is one subject we both agree on, at least in gross terms. - I suppose the question should be
DID CHARLIE BOY REBEL? - i was about to ask that keith, also barry has not explained why the government is so keen to hand over this money to brussels.
alex has made a very good point, we're telling people that they will be losing their public sector jobs and that we cannot afford for the over 75's to have a free t.v. licence, but still have plenty of money to hand over to the bureaucrats. - It is worth making clear that this amendment was only one part of the war against this. The battle goes on and the government is far from unsympathetic.
Information from the Speccie Coffee House as follows:
A Treasury Minister, Justine Greening, said last night:
‘I will not hide from the House the Government's frustration that some of our partners - and those in EU institutions - do not seem to understand how bizarre it is, when national budgets are under such extraordinary pressure, that the EU should be immune from that.’
The EU Commission proposes a rise of 6 percent...... the EU parliament's budget committee called for a 2.9 percent increase....... the EU’s annual running costs, which have increased by 4.4 percent. .........surrendered budget rebate, the non-agricultural tranche of which is being backdated to 2004 this year. The taxpayer will incur an extra £2bn in consequence, taking our contribution to £9.5bn in 2011.
The following is interesting and I paste it here in full....
""""The Tory party and the coalition are united in trying to block that increase, favouring a cash-neutral budget for 2011. However, the Labour party’s position is more ambiguous. It is unclear how Labour MEPs will jump when this breaches their horizons.""""
So the big question is what on earth are Labour up to.... - barry
you know very well that the reds go along with whatever brussels decrees, the real question is why the blues are press ganging their m.p's into going along with it.
ms greening talks about government frustration as though they can do nothing about it.
i bet mr sarkozy will put up a better fight. - It may be a difference over tactics and method Howard. There is more than one way to skin a cat.... Not being on the inside I really do not know the answer.
- barryw,not inside what,the eu or the goverment.
- Unfortunately David Cameron and his cosy, tight knit group of friends have too much to lose to risk being seen to be sceptical about the EU. And before anyone talks about him bending over backwards to appease the liberals I have to say they are wrong - David Cameron is an arch Europhile pure and simple. He would be perfectly suited as the leader of the liberals.
I cannot think of many or any, in fact, policies which in general do not concur with those of the European dream.
Climate change and other religious beliefs for starters.
Some people think that he will roll over to any new laws from Brussels but why should he roll over when he positively rubs his hands with glee at the prospect. Teresa May has signed up to European investigation order so your'd better watch out as now any UK citizen can be extradited, no if's no but's to any peasant state in the EU to face any trumped up charge they care to throw at you.
We face massive hikes in the amount we will have to pay to the EU and still no debate merely the nod from the Tories.
New proposals to completely and radically transform Europes electricity transmission grid at a cost of 1 trillion euros (double that) in order to reach ludicrous green energy initiatives will again be met by our glorious leader putting his hand into our pockets and gleefully sending them our cash.
There's more but you'll see the results in years to come as crisis's such as the depression in our country will dominate the political agenda for the next few years.
Boiling frogs. - i am not of your political persuasion philip, much more of a middle of the road wishy washy type.
i have to say that your appraisal of the situation where we can afford to throw money away into an unaccountable bureacracy when we are denying our own citizens is spot on.
i remember dave saying "why do people keep banging on about europe.
says it all really. - Barryw so Charlie boy WAS one of the 37 rebels?????
- keith
rest assured charlie was not one of the rebels. - Howard, I'm a Tory.
- did you really have to say that philip, it was taken as read that you were an unreconstructed thatcherite.
personally my view is that all political views(extreme and moderate) should be aired here, makes for healthy debate. - Howard the only 'ite I am is one which I am called occasionally by my Missus when I use the last of the milk or turn the television channel over without her consent. Doesn't start with the letter T however, normally the letter preceeding that in the alphabet.
- Howard
Oh dear if thats correct hes no better than when barryw was critcal of the last MP - Our present MP is better in many, many ways Keith. For instance, he has shown greater initiative and intelligence in his approach to the Port matter and, what is more, he has put his own money where his mouth is.
Also, a simple matter, but one that is indicatiove of the attitude and approach to being a constituency MP is Charlie's use of the generic HoC headed paper. He is styled as 'Member of Parliament' for Dover. Prosser used headed notepaper in a horrible red and styled himself as 'Labour Member of Parliament for Dover' a small but significant indictation of their different attitudes to how they do their job. - Barry, following up on the most recent posts here, do you know that Charlie MP is a euro-scheptic? I read his views on the e.u. on his blog, which date back to when he was in opposition, befor May 2010. How come now he is not an e.u. scheptic anymore and did not vote against increased benefits from our Country to the e.u.?
Does that ring a bell somewhere? I mean, backtracking? - He is a Eurosceptic. Such credentials do not depend on voting on that amendment. Like I say there are many ways to skin a cat.
- words like eurosceptic are rather hollow when a chance to show one's colours comes along and people turn into lobby fodder.
37 is a sad number, i wonder what their constituents thought after listening to the anti e.u. rhetoric during the run up to the general election? - The anti-EU rhetoric sounds good on the hustings but it means little, it beats the old patriotic drum for a short while and gets the gullible down to the polling booth. But look what happened, as soon as David Cameron was in power, he was over at EU headquarters before the ink was dry on his premiership, making all the right pro-EU noises...having previously a day or two earlier sent William Hague to do the same.
On top of that of course and as we know, Mr Cameron formed a government with the LibDEms who are very very pro Europe and Mr C knows that well. Although...hold it a minute...perhaps we should scratch that, because none of us know what the Libdems stand for any more. They do more back flip somersaults than an acrobat in Billy Smarts circus.
The truth is though, and its been this way for years, the Tories are no more Euro Sceptic than the Labour Party, despite some sabre rattling on the topic, so for that I commend them. The EU is where we belong and all three parties see it that way. All three of them cant be wrong!! Can they?...no surely..
As for Charlie well I dont know...he is awful quiet lately. Where are you Charlie? - i would be interested to know what representations charlie made to try to save the border agency jobs.
i have tried asking him on his website, charlie is not very good at answering questions. - i would like to know which side of the fence charlie is actully on.
- a lot of people would like to know the answer to that one brian.
especially those that have their letters unanswered. - Well I am very well disposed towards Europe, but not towards the e.u.
Switzerland and Norway are not in the e.u., but they also rank high in my esteem. As for France, I advocate very special relations with that Country, and between Dover and Calais as towns.
- I find it interesting that you have absolutely no idea of the depth of genuine hatred towards the EU in the Conservative party.
- Indeed a whole 37 of them hold a genuine hatred towards the EU. That says it all really.
I think the problem lies in the leadership or rather lack of it on this an other issues. Of course from now on our hands are essentially tied by the act of treason committed by the last useless, lying, corrupt, inept, profligate with public funds, cheating, underhand, infantile, hypocritical, did I mention corrupt?, corrupt administration when they signed the lisbon treaty and denied the British public a vote on the matter. So I guess there's not much to be done except for someone with vision, with some balls to pass a law which would put paid to the treaty.
It's our country after all and even though peasant states from within the EU cheered on by the bigger boys, France and Germany etc. would find this an outrage it could indeed lead to a successful outcome. After all what could they do? Eh? In the long term the EU is knackered anyway and such a move could indeed do everyone a favour and hasten it's demise. Consider the idea as an appeals court or if you like a marriage where one party or the other wants out. There's no point in sticking together for the sake of the children - all that does is do tremendous damage to their future chances. Much the same can be said of agreement we signed or rather bottler brown signed on that fateful day. Like some dodgy double glazing salesman or loans consolidation representative we were pushed into signing this agreement. But there was no cooling off period, no ombudsman to take our case to it's causing us a great deal of pain now and will cause us much more in the future.
Just an idea but one worth kicking around for discussion. - The head of the family also signed the treaty!
- I have never been a great believer in privatised industries
hopefully charlie will get proposals through, but theres still unanswered questions on that.
Royal; mail should not go down the privatisation route
same for the ralway companies
- Keith! The railway companies are private. They took that route years ago. When did you last see a British Rail train?
If the Royal Mail becomes private, than it won't be royal anymore, and stamp-collections will change.. - philip,just a couple of wordsspring to mind,what utter clap trap you speak.
- No Brian, there is a lot of truth in what he says. Philip does not understand the reality of how the appalling EU must be dealt with in practise and it is that which leads to his unjustified critisisms of the Conservative leadership.
- Alexander,
having worked on them for 25 years I know fully that they are private, and losing a job also being made redundant believe me I know a lot.
Although I'm not a great believer in nationalised railways, im also against private railways.
we need to look at an in between these two - barryw,one word you have spelt wrongly in your post,its apealing not appalling.the eu that is.
- There are two 'p's in appealing Brian, and no its not, the right word for the EU is indeed appalling.
- come on barry you know its appealing but you are to frightend to addmit to it.
- There's private and not quite private with regard to our trains - East Coast Trains is a wholly owned subsidiary of Directly Operated Railways Ltd who are a wholly owned subsidiary of the Secretary of State for Transport. But they do provide a good and reliable service.
- "philip,just a couple of wordsspring to mind,what utter clap trap you speak".
Hmmn, you might well have a point there. A point well made. - Brian?
- alex???????????????????????
- Barry before you question Brian and his spelling, look at your own. The word is "criticism" and not the way you spelt it.
If you want people to read and comment on your blog then perhaps being a little less bloody rude might help. - i spotted that too alan, we all make grammatical and spelling errors.
we should concentrate on what the poster has to say rather than picking holes in the wording.
- Alan, perhaps you should read the context of what I was saying.
So they say a sense of humour is dead!! - I think Philip thinks what a number of other among us think, that if we make heads and tales of what you write about the Tory party and the e.u., Barry, you are telling us that the Tories hate the e.u., but don't want us to leave the e.u..
It's not a coherent policy! - Barry, I just read the above presentation, and wish to ask this question: If they privatise the royal mint, what will be on the head side of the coins? Would it be feasible that a different picture is minted, as the mint would be no longer royal?
- Guys, guys come on now. Relaxsh and shmoke de pipe of peache. It's great being in the EU. Just think guys you belonging to thish organisation will only cost you nearly £900 extra of your British pounds on meeting the beautiful EU targets to combat global warming/change/disruption/biodiversity etc.
No really guys it'sh true and it's pretty far out yah?
You guys have got to get your act together.
You need £40 billion in order to connect your windfarmshs to the national grid, £100 billion to build more beautiful windmillshs in the beautiful rising ocean around your island, £8 billion to pay for feed in tarrifs to those who can afford solar panels and you say you want to leave this far out block of really hip guys?
Why? What's the problem guys don't you like Europe or something? - Philip, I like Europe more than many might esteem possible for one who is decisively anti-e.u., as I am.
As for wind-farms, personally I also have plans to have some developed, and have been making studies in this direction. A new kind of wind-turbine, much smaller but more robust. We need them. Also electro buses in Dover. - Good morning Barry and all!
There's a question I thought of asking, realisticly trying to make heads and tales of future economic prospects. It occured to me that Croatia, Bosnia, Serbia, Macedonia, Kosovo and Albania are all in line to enter the e.u.
What is the Tory party's official stand on this? - now whos tacking the pish.not i said me.
- Does anyone have any idea if Conservative MEP's are being whipped to vote against the proposed changes to maternity leave and payments?
- yes philip,its done by a dominat matrix.
- according to tradition most of the blues would like it brian.
philip
you are mischief making, dave and william will ensure that the measure goes ahead, i started a thread on the members page a while back on the subject of how it would stop small businesses employing women of a certain age. - due to the defence cuts,paper ones.
- from what i understand the new carriers will have nothing to fly from them.
the contract entered into by the reds is such that cancelling it would cost too much.
cheaper to carry on with the building despite their not being enough money to buy the aircraft for them. - Howard - we shall see what actually comes out of the review on that.
With the Harrier fleet basically worn out by operations, in theory, there will be a gap of a couple years before the F35B is in service.
If, however, what some say is true, then much cheaper F/A18 SuperHornets will be bought instead of F35B's to operate from the carriers. These could be in service much sooner and, in fact Fleet Air Arm pilots are in the USA being trained on catapult assisted deck take offs and landings in F/A 18s right now.
It is also possible for the F35C version to be obained much sooner than the B version.
Both the F/A18 and the F35C would need cats and arrester wires fitted to the carriers. Even so, both these options would represent a big saving even allowing for the cats.
Not long to see exactly what will happen. - the navy is going to need a lots of kite kat to feed those cats.
- The EU is costing the UK 5 Million A day if we come out after 3 months we would be out of debt. why are you all for the EU we have Built most of France and Spain's Roads and yet they charge us silly money to travel on them. and yet we stand still in this Country but I see no one shouting about are Roads we just lie down and let them walk all over us.
- Alan - Our net EU contribution is going up to £9.5bn. The deficit is £156bn - £109bn of which c. £83bn has to be dealt with by cuts and c. £26bn by tax rises.
The UK debt (different to the deficit, which is simply the amount the government spends in excess of income) is £1trillion (a thousand billion).
So I am afraid that your suggestion we would be out of debt 3 months after leaving the EU simply does not stack up mathmatically. I say that with regret seeing as I would love to be able to use that as a line of attack on the Soviet Socialist European Union.... I does not work though.
- love the different perspectives of euro sceptics, blue barry and the right see it as a communist thing whilst those on the left see it as a capitalist conspiracy.
so much for tony and his third way. - It is very Stalinist in its structure, Howard. Centralised, controlling and interfering.
- a bit like the tory party at the moment.
- I guess the fact that these ships will have no new planes to fly on has several advantages one of which is that the crew will be able to listen to their portable music players without the awful whooshing noise associated with aircraft take offs and landings.
Having said that it would have been possible to buy at least a couple of jets if the collosal waste of money that is carbon capture and storage hadn't been promised to five houses huhne in this spending review round. Yes folks, green dave has promised £1 billion to the development of experiments to see if it's possible for this technology to work, which of course it won't.
That's one billion pounds people. Experts know this is a dead duck and will never, ever work but as a sop to the libs and the ecoloons green dave thinks it's money well spent in order to placate the other side of the coalition.
We have entered the world of the twilight zone politics. It makes third world politics seem positively sophisticated. - look on the bright side philip, without all those heavy planes on and no voyages to undertake, the carbon footprint(whatever that is) will be reduced.
looks to me like green dave and red george have unveiled a winner. - Very good Howard I'm sure they bore that in mind when making this decision. In fact Cameron's boss Danny Alexander and the deputy PM Chris Huhne's impact on the coalition is much, much deeper than anyone could possibly have imagined. Earlier today a paparazi managed to take a snap of Mr. Alexander in the back of his chauffeur driven elitecab which showed him with the csr documents on his lap. Whether this was by design or by accident We'll have to wait and read in Alexander's memoirs which no doubt will be called "How to be Prime Minister in five easy lessons".
There are some interesting snippets of what is to come and among them is Dave's (third in command) promise to "Push for a 30% emmissions target with the EU." Not only that the complete buffoon wants to, wait for it this is making my head spin a la Linda Blair in the Exorcist, "that the UK will contribute £2.9bn in international climate finance and sets out plans to focus on developing wind power to help reach environmental goals.
- nice bit of spin barry, how do you explain to the troops in the theatre of war that if they live through it they will be thrown onto the dole when they return home?
- With the priority being given to cyber security one wonders what HMG is proposing to replace Nimrod ELINT capability (RAF Waddington). The Sentinal R1 Astor is also planned to be withdrawn leaving just seven E-3D Sentrys. If the next load of skirmishes are to be fought in cyberspace it seems a bit daft to get rid of the capability of hoovering up the ether?
- far too simplistic of you bob.
- Howard - as I said it is not the front-line where the cuts will fall. Those cuts announced in troop numbers is such that over the 4 years natural wastage should deal with it.
Bob - you are right, ELINT capability is essential in the cyber war. I suspect though, given the changes to procurement, cheaper off-the-shelf options will be sought as platforms.
What has been so wrong in the past about our Defence spending is the way it has been used to sustain employment in northern factories and shipyards rather than purely for defence. That has led the MoD to develop capability and equipment spending 3 or 4 times what they might have spent for something just as good off the shelf. There are many examples, combat radios, rader systems, missile systems and even frigates and aircraft. - Baz
You give the impression you would be happy for the north
It has been the case even as far back as Maggie that conservatives are happy to throw people on the dole, then have the cheek to moan cos to many claiming dole.
The impression you gve is spend more on defense and let the north wither.
That would be a mistake in my view.
We have this age argument do we spend billions on defense or cut back?
In my early years in the Labour party CND were very active within the party, and I was in those days always opposing there view.
I do think now we have to review, and cant keep escalating into this arms race.
It will be interesting to see how all this developes - Keith - what I am saying is that defence spending must have one purpose only, securing the defence needs of the nation.
It should not be treated as a job creation scheme to fund overly expensive projects.
Labour have always seen defence as the latter and not the former - these are warped values that have, along with gross underfunding, left the MoD in a terrible mess. - BAZ;
I do understand, and believe me 25 years ago when CND were a big organsed outfit I was forever argueing with them.
They died down a lot now - the worst bit in my mind is the fact that troops serving in afghanistan know that some are for the chop when they return.
hardly a morale booster for them. - Howard - I did answer that. It is not front line troops being cut. you keep repeating the same thing.
- barry
the government admitted yesterday that some troops serving in afghanistan would be affected.
i saw it live on the bbc news 24. - From Jon Snow's blog on Channel4 - "I ran into a seasoned Defence Analyst last night. He told me two completely shocking things. Firstly that when it comes to military procurement, Israel spends £9 billion a year and administers its purchases with 400 people. Britain spends £10 billion annually on procurement and has a staff of 23,700 to do it." That's an area ready for cuts and efficiency savings.
- Actually Ray Liam Fox did answer that one in an interview over the weekend. This is not a like for like, all the 23,700 quoted are not involved in procurement.
That said there is no doubt that MoD procurement is a complete mess. This is in part of what I have referred to before, the use of the Defence budget to provide jobs in shipyards and factories rather to just look after our defense needs. This is what leads them to spend 3 or 4 times what they need to spend, often on second rate equipment.
Remember the Westland row years back involving Heseltine? That was over the purchase of expensive Westland helicopters or cheaper (and more effective) American ones. Heseltine wanted to protect the British helicopter industry and won, the taxpayer lost. - Howard- do not believe everything the BBC say.
I suspect what that may refer to is something about the way disabled servicemen are being kept on in 'back-office' jobs. Nominally on the payroll of their regiment but unable to be deployed with them.
However admirable it is to help these soldiers when the budget is stretched and numbers being cut you must make sure that who you have is capable of being deployed.
In that way, sadly, some Afghanistan vets will lose their jobs in these cuts.
Most though will be from natural wastage over several years rather than fit and able soldiers being made redundant. - Natural wastage in the forces Barry is those who have served their Country well, around the 20 to 22 year mark. That is experienced service personnel normally those with ranks around Sergeant, Staff Sergeant in the Army who are not likely to climb much higher but none the less with the military skills that will no longer be there to pass on to those coming in, but then will there be that many coming in.
Still these were the parties that run the last Government down for not doing enough for our Armed forces on the Front Line. No they may not be cutting front line troops but I am sure they will be cutting the morale of the troops on the front line and that cannot be counted in money.
Many will be thinking when I get home, I will be nothing more than a defence cut, thats because every soldier is soldier first no matter if he is a foot soldier, a cook or an engineer etc.
- No harry - there are many who choose not to serve the 20-22 years and they will be part of the 'natural wastage'.
I do not like the defence cuts and this is the one and only budget I would prefer to increase. I would cut any other department to spend more on defence.
Sadly the government went against the basic instincts of the grassroots Conservatives to do this - not doubt some sucking up to the LDs here. Apparently some LDs are spitting blood over the commitment to the forces for above inflation increases from 2015. - barry
what would you have said to the harrier jump jet pilot who accosted dave yesterday?
he had flown over 140 missions in afghanistan, i expected dave to respond with something like "we will retrain you" or "you will get a gold plated pension".
neither. - I don't know what was said to him.
As I say, defence is the only thing I would not cut simply because it is the most important function of government and was the only department to have been badly underfunded for the last 13 years. - Well all in all a good spending review. The olympics (pharmagames) remains largely unscathed 'cept for some £7 million plastic covering over one of the stadiums so pray for dry weather. Good to see a couple of billion being spent on glorious windfarms (my how I love to see those things spinning majestically o'er the hills and dales of Enland), another couple of bill. to a new bank called the climate change bank or something, more foreign aid to salve our collective colonial consciences, a plan to use French staff to man the borders in France and make thousands of immigration staff redundant according to The Independent, fewer prison places, the middle and working classes being hit hard, new ships with no planes to fly from and so on and so on and so on.
What's not to like in this spending review? - Some interesting figures just seen on Sky News. UK car, van and engine production were up by up to 35% in September the on same month last year. Let's hope that's a good sign for the rest of the economy then some of these cuts might not be needed and the deficit turned round sooner.
- Oh dear Baz, I dd think you would move away from your rose tnted glasses, but hey why should I expect that?
In the real world, Alan Johnston did a realy good response and many timres off script as the tories/lib dems continued the boring shouting across the chamber.
He countered all the comments made by mr osbourne, who looked very weak when off script.
So lets go through Item by item;
If the cobbled together govt achieves those savings, that's fantastic.
Each budget to be cut by a third, well time will tell if the forecast's made wll bring around recovery.
lots of public sector jobs to go, this will effect the economy
no spending,more on benefits, less jobs.
Royal budget cuts, no probs there
local govt fundings, cuts, still to see the probs that will cause
Social care; won't have much of a dent as to help
Aid budget should continue one of the few things cobbled together govt got right.
Big cuts in police budgets, sadly this wll mean cuts n front line services.
Illegal tax dodgers to be targetted, I agree but shouldnt stop there
penson age to rise, blimey, but have to live wth that, baz thought you were already close to retirement
public sector pensions still to see the effect that will have
Thats goning to push people back into work that are realy to ill to do so, and this not only bad for them but also those they come into contact with
]benefits for elderly to stay in the main good
don't know enough about equitable life
Adult apprentiships, hope it makes a difference
Science grants to stay, good
Energy cutbacks, smokre screen, not sure this enough spending
Defra cut backs, uncertain on that one
GooD news on museums
good news on license freeze 6 years al;ready to dear
transport projects
none in this area
train fares up, bad move
sad you take i dont care attitude barryw
more to follow got to go out
- thankfully i will be able to get my buss pass in the next 18 months,2,still be able to retire at 65 horray just about squeze in before 2020.so boy george has done me a favor.
- Keith - the balance of journalistic opinion is that George Osborne completely demolished Alan Johnson, wiped the floor with him.
I have found what GO said in response to Alan Johnson so you can see for yourself.....
"He’s a nice guy, but he’s in the wrong job. The truth is this: frankly, either member of the Balls family would have done a lot better than that, and they might even have asked me a question or two, but let me try to respond to what he said.
"The right hon. Gentleman keeps talking about a plan B, but he has not even got a plan A. There was a complete denial of the fact that this country has the largest budget deficit in the G20. He made no acknowledgement of the fact that the credit rating agencies were looking at this country when he was in the Cabinet and no acknowledgement of the fact that our market interest rates were the same as Spain rather than others. Frankly, he spent half his statement defending the economic policy of the last Labour Prime Minister — who perhaps could have turned up to hear it — but that is totally irrelevant to the questions put before the House today and the proposals that we have set out.
"The right hon. Gentleman kept saying, 'We want to reduce the deficit'. As far as I could tell, he did not agree with a single measure that I set out. He did not propose a single saving. He is a deficit denier, and the truth is this:
"We have been told for a whole year that we would get Labour’s deficit reduction plan. Before the election, let us remember, we were told in the debates, 'Don’t worry, it’ll come after the election.' During the leadership contest, we were told that it would come after the leadership contest. After the leadership contest, we were told that it would come before the spending review, and then this morning, a member of the shadow Cabinet said on the radio, 'We are not going to do an alternative to the spending review'.
"I then got this message in the Chamber that said that at eight minutes past 1 this afternoon, when the shadow Chancellor was actually in the Chamber, he sent an e-mail to members of the public saying 'I’m going to be honest with you, being in opposition... does mean we have to set out a clear alternative', and he then said, 'Please share your thoughts with us'.
"Labour Members were in government until six months ago. They sat round the Cabinet table as the deficit increased. Six months later, they have not put forward a single idea for reducing the budget deficit. It is absolutely pathetic."
Wham bang and Alan Johnson, a postman pretending to be the Shadow Chancellor, sunk without trace.... - had to laugh at a comment in the financial times today(not a journal to be rib tickling normally), a leading city trader described the cuts as "the most savage cuts since the shower scene in psycho".
- to continue on baz's posting at top of page
Business budget cut lets what that does
great to see spendng in schools
poorest children more dosh in schools, may help - further to the comment from keith, do we really need a business dept at all?
some of the things preserved by red george do seem aimed to help the less well off, i disagree with the institute of fiscal studies, many of the cuts has already been put in place by the last government.
the transfer of people from incapacity to signing on started 2 years ago.
surprised to see blue barry support free admission to museums and galleries, though he would see all that as a bit namby pamby. - Isn't the Tories plan which is that the private sector will pull us all out of this hole we're in more one of hope over expectation? Where, exactly, will this private sector growth come from? If the bankers are bashed, hedge funds and other related financials hammered where on Earth is this growth expected to emerge?
- i wonder about that myself philip, i suspect that george was crossing his fingers for luck when rattling off his plans.
let's hope he has got it right, and the doubters are wrong.
looking at this on a simple level i saw a short film on the communities that rely on public sector projects, devonport and rosyth stood out. both rely on the m.o.d. when the bases close all the local cafes, pubs, newsagents and the like close with them.
the only thing that awaits them is the dole queue meaning a loss in taxation to the treasury and a rise in benefit payments. - Only the private sector creates wealth - the public sector consumes it, very inefficiently too.
It is only the private sector that can get us out of this. The source of all our wealth is and has always been the private sector. - I understand that Barry but from where? I agree with what you say but at the moment it appears that every Man and his dog wants to kill the golden goose which is the City of London, tax them till they die and expect them to carry on regardless. All they will do is migrate to Asia and other places where we will never see their likes of again.
Alot of talk has been invested into transforming the green economy but we neither make this technology and rely on other countries for their manufacture and China for the rare earth metals which is required for almost all of this antiquated technology.
There is no way out in my opinion. North America is stuffed, Europe is stuffed and we are most certainly stuffed. And by passing laws which will restrict our carbon emmissions by 30% whatever manufacturing capabilities we still have will be doomed forever.
Do you ever get the feeling that the Tories chose the wrong leader? - barry and phillip
you both seem to see the private sector as just for the big people such as banks and the big energy combines, most of the private sector are small concerns totally rogered by public sector cuts.
sometimes it is better to think about the human cost rather than how big business will survive and prosper. - Howard the human cost will be even bigger if big business does not survive and prosper. It's all about unintended consequences. So, for example, while the bloated and out of touch representatives in the Houses of Parliament do stupid things like pass the climate change act or ban smoking in public places strange things happen.
By passing the climate change act they will cripple industry and turn away entrepeneurs to foreign climes because smart people recognise a dead duck when they see one.
The smoking ban? Well official Government figures show a 4% increase in cancer diagnosis in Men and 3.7% increase.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Take nobodys word for anything. See a photograph - examine it with a magnifying glass.
Hear a politician speak - replay what they say over and over and double check on, say, the internet to see what the other side of the argument is.
- On the contrary Howard - most of the private sector indeed are small concerns, like mine and like those of a lot of my clients. Small businesses are often the big businesses of tomorrow and, yes, big business to must also thrive.
It is essential for all businesses to get the deficit under control and eliminated as soon as possible. Failure to do that would drive up interest rates and choke off growth driving businesses of all sizes out of business.
I have never suggested that I see the private sector as just big business. In fact it is absurd that you suggest that. - all i see is profit before people syndrome here.
- Really Brian....
Well without profit you do not generate the jobs and salaries that lift people out of poverty and also generate the tax revenues needed to help those who genuinely, through no fault of their own, cannot work.
Profit has to come first for that reason.
Where Labour governments go wrong every time and end in a financial crisis that leaves more out of work and on benefits than when they started. - barryw
like magge and others in your party said
unemployment is a price worth paying - So where does that old saying come into this debate Keith?
The fact is that employment in both the private sector and the public sector depends unltimately upon the success of the private sector and the profits generated.
Lets even refine that down somewhat. Businesses that depend entirely or partly for their income on the public sector are, therefore, partly or fully a part of the public sector.
It is those profits generated by the private sector, outside the public sector, on which the whole public sector edifice rests. - barryw,apart from jag/landrover what other firms big or small are investing that sort of money.
- What sort of money Brian? - I have not mentioned any sort of money.
If you are talking about job creation around 370,000 new jobs in the private sector over the last 3 months - in businesses small and large. - Ha ha I did have a laugh at this little gem in the Grauniad.
"In January, the coalition will begin offering up to £5,000 towards the price of a series of newly launched electric cars, as part of a subsidy announced by the former Labour government"
And here's me thinking that money was tight.
Only a moron (including Jonathon Ross, Boris Johnson and Jade Jagger would put their hand in their pockets for one of these things and yet somehow the coalition seems to think that we are all morons by "giving" £5000 to any mug hell bent on buying one of these things.
Ironically only 55 of them were registered in 2009 - this is Dave's idea of pulling us out of a hole by investing in the green economy.
Aye there's nowt as queer as folk eh? - barry somtimesi despare with you.the money from profits of course what money do you think i was talking about.
- I despaire sometimes with your communication Brian. If people do not understand what you say then dont blame them.
All businesses reinvest a proportion of their income, I do with mine all the time. - Anges on the head of a pin. Overseas aid, climate change legislation and other such ridiculous objectives including our EU contribution. This is what the Cameron government deem it necessary to waste our money on. Bonkers!
- Oh and by the way, why is it that the coalition is deliberately targetting the poor in these budget cuts? It's not fair really is it? Don't they like them or something?
Answers on a postcard please if you can afford it. - No - Philip they are not.
On the EU see today's blog.
By the way the Conservatives are opposing the EU budget increase. As I said in a previous blog a previous Commons vote was all about tactics not whether to agree to it or not.
the Telegraph report that Cameron is fighting the increase. - Well let's look at some cold hard facts and figures. Due to this Governments obsession with all things green (greenest government ever, remember that?) it is the poor who will fare worse in Dave's bid to save the planet.
This year £6 billion will be added as a levy on energy prices to busness's and consumers.
In 2015 this figure will increase to £10 billion.
Fast forward to 2020 and we are talking about £16 billion.
This equates to 4 pence extra on top of the basic rate of income tax.
As it stands there are 4.6 millions people who are officially recognised as living in fuel poverty. By 2020 energy bills are projected to be 30 to 40% higher because of the green policies to save the planet.
And who pays for this nonsense? Who can least afford to fork out for these ridiculous schemes? Who will pay more for not only the energy they consume but pay more for essentials whose prices will increase in order to pay for these measures?
Wait for it.........
Yes that's right, the poor.
You also talk about the EU budget and how big Dave will stand up and defend our corner. So please explain exactly what happened when an attempt to force cuts in our contribution to the EU budget failed in the commons the other week?
It will be interesting to see where We stand on a referendum if German and French proposals to ammend the lisbon treaty comes before the EU parliament any time soon. Or will some excuse be found by the Tories to deny us the vote because it isn't deemed to be a substantial change. - as is see it the reds are pro european and would naturally go along with everything, at least they are being honest.
the blues make a pretence of being anti european union as evidence by the vote in parliament the other week.
most countries in the union cherry pick what rules and laws to abide by, why does not the coalition simply refuse to pay this extra? - Howard - there no pretence at all.
I told you it was a matter of tactics.
If the extra is forced through you cannot choose not to pay it. - Actually pretence is too short a word for it. David Cameron is well aware that he stands more chance of me investing in a solar panel then his ability to block the budget increase under article 314 of the lisbon treaty.
He chooses his words very carefully and tells people that he will "lead a rebellion" on the issue which is slightly, just slightly different to saying "No way Pedro".
They must think we were born yesterday.
They're right. - Dave doesn't care about the old and the sick. The poor can whistle. Europe? Lovely this time of year in the south. Yes let them just pass away with barely a murmer.
Good old Dave. The heir to Blair. - I suppose we'll see if the Government refuses to pay the extra money to the e.u. when the time comes.
- They cant refuse to pay it, Alexander, if the EU budget is passed by the Council of Ministers. This matter is not yet finalised and the fight against it continues.
- Well it seems we can wave good-bye to that money too, then!
- thats right alex,lets fly the white flag of surrender and give all our dosh.or not.
- yet another new name for you brian!!
- Well to be quite staraight forward, Maximus, I haven't really got much of it to give away! I think others do it on our behalf.
- howard,maximus is a good chap.
- That looks very good all round there BarryW and in accordance with the popular latest terminolgy looks 'progressive'. The state pension could do with a decent boost but one thing that worries me personally about your following terminolgy...and I quote
"The reports suggest that the present complex array of pensions will be done away with in favour of a simple flat pension based on citizenship and residency."
Im worried about the 'citizenship and residency' thing..wot with me being a lowly foreignor. This of course is purely a personal fear but all round it looks positive for pensioners generally and is bound to be popular. About time they did something popular...it makes a change. - i'm always one that likes all the details before saying something is a good thing.
- i think that clause is intended to stop people moving to the u.k. to grab the pension without making any contributions.
i think it is aimed at the east europeans mainly. - Have to say pensons in general has always been a mine field for me never realy understood them.
Do ask each year when I get my latest indcations from my pension people, very basic questions, so if i was 65(66 now!) what would i recieve
of course if the stat penson heads towards a flat rate maybe that wll be easier to understand.
Always found pensions difficult to understand - at least some good news,if it goes through.
- i like the idea in principle, the saving in admin costs would be considerable.
the difference at present of £.7.60 in favour of the pensioner is good, but will this be offset by losing the winter fuel allowance?
at present this is protected but by the recent spending review.
a year or two back dave stated the wish to raise the basic pension then dropping all the extras, i suspect this may be the case here. - Its a much bigger advantage than that Howard the way means testing is applied in 95% or more cases.
Not sure about the fuel, it would make sense to lump everything together though. - Totally agree with women who have been unable to work thru. either parental and caring responsibilities being given credits to receive full pension rights.
I campaigned for this in my 2001/2005 General Election manifesto. - nice try paul, you know full well that even if one of the ladies you speak of was entitled to a state pension of £.1 per year she would would still take home £.132. a week.
the reds put the guarantee in place for everyone over the age of 60 regardless of their history or circumstances. - No, Howard- it does not work that way.
The £132 is the minimum pension guarantee for a single person. If the woman is married, as most in this position would be, they would be judged by a couples minimum pension of £202 for them both. The new proposal would give them £280 pw between them, a big difference.
What is more important is that there would be no means testing with the new proposals so people would keep all their savings. The pensions credit and so called savings credit punish you if you save. - I'd be suprised if there is anyone in Britain who will be able to collect 25 pence if the Dave's vision for job creation is anything to go by. Windfarms and green initiatives are so last year. Nobody cares anymore. Subsidies for green scams are being cut back drastically all over the world. Spain has finally cottoned on to the green find the lady trick and China is only going green (or so it appears) because they manufacture these useless items for western consumption - and why wouldn't they? There's a sucker born every minute.
As I predicted this is as good as it gets from our Dave. I'm not blaming him (no I'm being ironic here) but the world has moved on. Nobody in their right mind, which is why the BBC still harp on about the subject, is terrified of rising polar bears but Dave insists that he has made a sharp and shrewd move by telling us that investing in dredging ports to enable turbine blades to be imported (remember that IMPORTED) costing us £60 million will provide jobs and buck international trends and we're all going to live in green utopia where happy smiling bin men, oh I'm sorry I mean recycling operatives, , say things like "hello Mrs. Jones good to see you've recycled your organic Oran utan soup container again, pip pip see you next week and next time try the enviro dolphin friendly tuna range".
It's all a little disconcerting really. - thanks for that clarification barry.
- philip
you may have noticed that the worlds largest wind turbine manufacturer laid off 3000 employees today due to lack of demand for their products.
a danish company rejoicing under the name of vestas.
dave will have to do some serious rethinking here. - I did read that Howard. They're not the only one. Skykon (should that be Skycon?) which recieved millions from the Scottish government recently looks like it's going to go bust it was announced today.
Unfortunately our government is hoping that this sort of nonsense is going to pull us out of the hole left by the socialists.
If I've told him once I've told him a million times, Dave don't go down the enviro route - it's a dead end.
He yawned and turned his back on me. - just caught up with that one philip, always good to hear that my least favourite politician(alec salmond) has egg on his smug face.
- Yes I agree Howard it couldn't happen to a nicer chap. Smug just about sums it up where he is concerned. Actually it nearly coincides with tomorrow celebrations that is climate fools day being held at the palace of Westminister. It's early days for the movement, such as it is, but it will be interesting to note the coverage from bed wetters such as the BBC and other left wing news outlets.
Among those attending include scientists, politicians from the blues and reds (one red) bloggers, commentators, members of the public who hate being lied to and their cash pilfered and others.
Expect the usual sneering coverage in order to try and discredit their cause but the lefty middle classes excel in that most inglorious tradition that is looking down their noses at those whom they consider as "not one of us".
Oh and if that wasn't enough light rain is forecast to fall on proceedings which some might say is proof of Man made climate change. - pity you are so politically biased philip, i am a left leaning working class chap, enjoy the dialogue though.
have suggested before that you become a full member, think about it. - Howard, I promise I'm not politically biased but I dislike the ever increasing way that the Tories are beholden to special interest groups such as greenpeace, world wildlife fund, oxfam, the EU, the rspb and countless fake charities which have sprung up over the years which serve as proxy quangoes and take our money to use for their own egregious ends.
- philip
to my mind the three main parties are all middle of the road, all play the green credentials to please the special interest groups.
just a few things that i believe prove my point.
firstly the spending cuts would have been the same if the reds had been re-elected, the only difference is that they would have been spread out more.
secondly the movement of people on sickness benefits to job seekers allowance started more than 2 years ago.
thirdly there are moves to force people to take up a pension with their employers(more red tape for small companies) this was proposed by the reds.
finally after all the furore over the rise in crime under gordon and tony, police numbers and prison places will be cut. - Howard - a few points on your last post:
1/ By taking longer over deficit reduction the eventual cuts would have to be deeper to accomodate the higher interest being paid on the much higher borrowing.
2/ Recovery would be delayed and slowed by higher interest rates paid by business and individuals and damage to economic confidence.
3/ We would be running a big risk that the deficit is not done away with before the next slowdown comes along with the risk that it would then turn into another recession. We would be back where we started.
4/ The sickness benefit issue has only been addressed half-heartedly and the Labour Party had no ideas or proposals to reform the in-built systematic problems of the whole welfare system. A combination of the IDS reforms and the new private sector involvement in getting people back to work offers a different way to approach the whole problem.
5/ The NEST (for auto-enrollment into pensions) scheme is being reviewed and adjusted and in fact there are some proposals coming forward today for this. The original scheme was ill-conceived and was needed only because of Labours appalling failure over private pensions. Something of which I have detailed professional knowledge. I could write reams and reams about this and will restist the temptation.
6/ You know me on crime, I am a hang 'em and flog 'em type and have no sympathy with wooly headed thinking over scumbag criminals from any government. - Hang on a minute. If the Tories were really serious about getting us out of the hole why did Caroline Spelman give away £100 million of our money? Just like that!
Wasted!
Squandered!
Stolen from us all!
Given to greedy people from the other side of the world!
The Tories are as inept, or more so, than labour ever were.
They steal from our poorest and waste if on, believe it or not, animals.
You couldn't make it up, could you. - Who are these 'greedy people' explain your rant Philip.
- barry
you have gone some way to proving my point, your first 5 comments related to doing much the same things as the last lot, the only difference being timing, adjustments etc.
another example is this localisation rubbish, john prescott wanted to bring in regional governments to devolve power, despite there being county, district and town councils. i heard dave today banging on about giving power to councils, yet he is cutting their budgets. - Well the greedy people consist of those shrewd enough to spot a killing when they see it. REDD+ which stands Reducing Emissions from Deforestation and Forest Degradation is a rather brilliant scheme devised to con the world and make a comparatively small amount of people very rich.
Oh it's got everything. Carbon credits, carbon derivatives and other scams disguised as a plan to save the planet. I kid you not.
Ask anyone "Do you want to save the planet, our rainforests and save endangered species?" and the obvious reply is "Why of course".
This is how big business gets away with it. To criticise it is to appear heartless and uncaring. However what is at stake is literally billions of dollars, pounds or whichever denomination you care to choose.
It's truly appalling. So perhaps my "rant" isn't so much so rather than a very cross comment on how we are being fleeced with the help of the government and big business.
To carp about tax increases and saving small amounts here there and everywhere in order to bring down the deficit is silly when compared to how much this and other environmental policies will not only make us poorer but destroy our economy.
- Philip - your anti-environment extremism is as mad and illogical as the pro-environment extremists themselves.
Howard - small differences? Come off it. Labour, the guilty party for creating the economic disaster have no credable plan at all and would go on the cause an even bigger mess. There is a world of difference.
They have also caused the pensions screw-up. As I say I could talk for ages about that but in dealing with the problem there are few choices and you have to build on and improve what is in place.
Prescotts regionalism was nothing of the kind. it was an attempt to neuter England through divide and rule. As you will see in area after policy area Conservative localism will transform this country for the better and will reduce the burden of that dead hand of government (and local government) - Erm, but is it really mad and illogical for you to expect people to pay more for their energy bills, food and other essentials as well as major cost items in order to benefit the environment?
Is it illogical to be concerned that extreme environmental policies brought in by the last government with the full consent of the then opposition will do lasting damage to our economy?
Isn't is madder still to harp on about trifling cutbacks of a million here and a million there whilst many billions more is being wasted through this governments pointless aims towards a trace gas?
Well that's fair enough if you really think that being concerned by such things is mad and illogical but in a recent survey of new Tory backbenchers who believed non of the rubbish coming from the leadership (an oxymoron if there ever was) on this subject then they too must be considered to be mad and illogical.
I know you tend to concern yourself with mainstream issues and that is fine but examine closely this subject. It's more expensive to the country than any single act of Parliament in the history of this country.
Blimey even Guido Fawkes thinks the government is mad on this subject. - barry
nice try but what philip says is what the blue voters are saying.
your daily mail will confirm this. - Barry, I read your very interesting coverage, and weighed all the elements up carefully, but all said and considered, it seems like a drop in the ocean when compared with 500.000 public-sector workers about to be laid off. Add to that the enormous spending cuts in the Councils nationwide, I think the man and woman in the street won't grasp the idea.
- Philip, I've invented a new-style wind-turbine, small and robust, but no-one wants to try it out!
- Alexander - better to have job losses in the wealth absorbing public sector instead of the wealth creating private sector.
Hammer the latter and you will be compounding a cycle of economic decline. You just cannot get away from that. This is why Labour, every time they get into office, create an economic crisis - they build the public sector to the cost of the wealth creators.
Howard - few people express the kind of anti-environmental extremism that Philip does. I fall between the two extremes in this, I am not a believer in made-made global warming and the doom mongering environmentalists (its a natural cycle), but I do believe we can exasperate it around the edges and it is right to alleviate this.
My answer would be nuclear power not wind farms. - I do hope the cobbled together govt don't share barryw view just to put public sector workers on the dole.
That in itself just creates some of the problems barryw moans about on another thread.
Maggie said she was happy to have the 3 million on the dole
I hope for everyone's sake we have moved on from that. - Face economic reality Keith. The public sector over the last 13 years was expanded beyond reason and sustainability.
We need a correction to this. Hopefully spread over 4 years the reduction can largely be done via natural wastage but if there needs to be redundancies then sadly that is what happens, thanks to 13 years of economic mismanagement. - Oh dear, it is correct
i'm sure the cobbled together government are more street wise - Some sections of the 'cobbled together government' as Keef calls it were distinctly uncomfortable at Prime Ministers Questions yesterday. I speak of course of the raging gap between some sections of the Libdems. Young Labour whippersnapper Ed Miliband scored some good hits. He highlighted how glum poor Simon Hughes was on housing benefit cuts and on job cuts, and yes indeed the camera swung round and showed a very glum Simon Hughes indeed. Hughes being Libdem MP for inner London Bermondsey. Anyone who knows Bermondsey will remember the poor state of housing there, and poor housing on a huge scale.
Young Miliband was in fine form...and said it was no wonder "Clegg was back on the Fags" to mighty uproar. The jibe went down well.
Clegg himself looked very stressed throughout and has shown levels of stress over the past few days..refusing bad humouredly to accept the notion for example of 'social cleansing' which was touted by Briant, Labour. But isnt that true...according to reports it is. The poor will be exiting central London as a consequence of the housing benefit caps.
This is all bad enough but when you remember the promises the Libdems made to us all during the election campaign you can see where Cleggs stress and discomfort is coming from. - Boy Miliband was weak, terribly weak in PMQs. Not a good performer at all.
His housing attack fell completely flat.
Cameron had a lot of fun at Boy's expense over the leaked Labour memo while the Boy Miliband looked sheepish. - Yes it is back to the polls next year And UKIP will be again onward and upward the EU is in a mess
- a lot depends on how well dave does at the summit.
if he comes back with his tail between his legs telling us that we shell out an extra 900 million smackers then ukip can expect a boost in their vote. - Just to go back to the discomfiture of the Libdems for a moment and even dare one say it..the discomfiture of the Coalition itself. Since I wrote that post just below this morning ( 9.55am) I have seen since on the lunchtime news Boris Johnson Mayor of London and arch Conservative from the inner club, publicly disagreeing with this housing cap situation. Thereby aligning himself with both Labour and rebellious sections of the Libdems.
Boris also used the term.."social cleansing"...the term that so upset Nick Clegg yesterday when used by Labour. Nick Clegg has been back on TV since yet again now, abhoring this language of "cleansing". Bearing some alignment as it does with "ethnic cleansing". So even though they, the Libdems and the Tories, are in Coalition, the splits and arguments are exploding all over the place. Clegg is furious with Johnson.
So what have we got here...?? What we have, and it is somewhat unusual this, are the three main parties outside of immediate government all agreeing that this capping policy is pretty abysmal. The word draconian has been used widely.
There is definitely real fragmentation. - all change now paul, boris has backtracked and now fully supports the benefit changes.
the funny thing is that he claims his comments were taken out of context, not sure about his thinking there, he went out live on radio with his comments. - Minor issues nothing of great import. No change will be made to the social housing cap and quite rightly so.
Boris has one eye on the mayoral elections,as he should and it does him no harm to get a label as a rebel.
There will be no election for 4 years and UKIP, Vic, will be sunk. - A word of warning - I may not be able to post my weekend blog and this may stay up rather longer than usual until Monday morning.
Apologies for this if its the case as it all depends on an internet connection over Friday and the weekend.... - Paulb
Was I not right then, cobbled together govt and at that time 18 months.
They can't keep papering over the cracks, as you say paul it's not just the Lib Dem membership upset with the leader
Its S Hughes wth the leadership and co-olition
and now Boris and David.
liam fox also not happy on defense, and we still to see the fall out of lib dems on that issue.
Then theres the new voting system which ever is chosen
lib dems support it and tories dead against it.
This is just a few of wounds opening up, which will get worse. - So let me get this straight. Dave's gone to the big pow wow having backtracked on his pledge to fight the budget increase (which I predicted a couple of days ago on this blog) once he realised there was sweet fanny adams he could do about it.
Now it transpires that he is backtracking on a referendum because he says that proposed changes to the lisbon treaty doesn't affect the sovereignty of the UK but those in the Euro area (which is a rather large untruth because it will affect us to a great extent).
Now he's telling us that he is in a position to demand a cut in the budget unless he agrees to these changes in the lisbon treaty so that presumably when he returns home as the conquering hero as the iron man he can tell us how he stood up to the council of ministers.
So the way I see it is that he is willing to sell his soul to the devil and agree to these important changes to the treaty for the sake of a few million quid.
Aye aye aye aye. Put the kettle on love it's gonna be a long night. - ones blowing lots of hot air,now dont go blowing a bloodvessel phillp.
- Don't worry brian one only blows a blood vessel when one leaves out apostrophe's or put them in the wrong place.
- philip
it appears that germany, france and dave are against the increases, the rest are for it.
most of the money going into the union is from the three against it.
i wonder why the new european members want so much more when most of their population have moved to western europe.
maybe we should be grateful at the 9% increase in our contribution, the entertainment budget is going up 85%.
- howard/philip,apart from the 3 howard mentions 8 others have joined,they are as follows.
holland,sweden,czech republic,austria,finland,slovania and estonia.
make it as you will,time will tell. - Had to laugh at question time tonight. The usual bunch of weirdos posing as representatives of democracy including notably Chris Bryant and the equally weird Simon Sharma. The programme featured the great Hugh Hendry which made watching the BBC worth watching which is a rare thing nowadays. Very thoughtful chap and it's a shame He can't hire himself out as a part time front bencher.
- As an aside, I've been accused of being mad and illogical. Yes I hold up my hands to that. I'm sorry I've gone on and on about the issue of climate change and how it will affect us all and lead to increased costs which will affect every single aspect of our lives. So I'll stop.
Right now.
No more from me about it.
I'll change the subject to something more mainstream.
Ok, what do people thnk of these new airport passenger duty taxes which will come into force?
Personally I'm not bothered but some might feel differently. - philip,logic becomes you.
- “Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit.”
Antoine de Saint-Exupery - totally disagree bob, coca cola is the main ruin of a good spirit.
- howard,it depends wot spirit you chuck init,init.
- Well Dave went to Europe, chuckle, and won a great, hee hee hee, victory. He stood up to them all, chortle, and showed everyone how he singled handed, waaaaahhh, sorted them all out. He told us before he left, ah aha ha haaa, how strong he was going to be and he, kik kik kik, proved how tough he was.
It's so important to have a strong leader who fights your corner nes pas? - showed himself up there, we all know when someone demands 6 % they are ready to negotiate down to 3%, governments do it all the time.
basically he has come back with egg on his face, the european union now know how pliable the united kingdom leadership is.
how will he now explain the housing benefit cuts after handing over 450 million quid to a bunch of bureaucrats? - Well I guess the airport passenger duties might help. Oh no hang on it'll make travellers think twice about coming here and using our airports so maybe not such a good idea after all. I thought the Tories were a party of low taxation.
- Barry, I read on the Financial Times headlines recently that there might be a trade war between America and China. Will this affect us?
I can remember rehearsing every day, reading from a note, my prase in the class performance in front of the whole school assembly: baked beans from America!
The other day I opened a can of baked beans, and the beans came out and landed over the wall.
The reason is because I was using a can-opener made in China, it didn't work propoerly! - I hope you did not put the beans in the bin Alex please tell me that you did eat them after geting them off the wall.
- No I didn't, Vic; but I did assume that the first hostilities had broken out in the trade-war between America and China!
- I wouldn't worry too much about a trade war. Mr. Cameron is doing his level best to destroy our economy. So far He's doing a great job at it and the way it's going it shouldn't be too long before China sets up here and offers to build a few football stadiums in return for whatever natural resources we have as they have done in Africa. It should improve our chances of holding the football world cup in whenever that is I can't be particularly ars bothered by the whole thing.
- alex,the beans are prodused in the uk,as for the tin opener was it a takeaway.
- It certainly ain't one of those traditional British can-openers made of Shefield steel that cost 2 quid and last for decades!
- alex,so last century shefild steal.where do you think they get there steel from.
- Yes, but the factories still remained in Shefield, even when the local iron-ore mines closed down.
Importing can-openers is like carrying coals to Newcastle.
Or carrying bramly apples to Kent! - or nuts to the asilum.
- the recent comments on this page have bordered on the surreal.
maybe i am living in a parallel universe? - probably howard probably.lol
- I did promise that I wouldn't go on about climate change ever again so I won't. However I didn't include in that promise what has now effectively replaced climate change namely something called biodiversity. I recently railed against Caroline Spelman doling out £100 million of your tax money to help the tree huggers over in far flung places most of us have never heard of. It's worse of course, much worse.
This from Defra's website:
"The funds will help developing countries achieve sustainable, low-carbon development and prepare for the effects of climate change. Last week, the UK government announced that it will provide international climate finance of £2.9bn from 2010/11 to 2014/2015 of which this £100m is a part."
Read that again folks - £2.9 billion.
£2.9 billion quids, spondoolaks, wunga notes it's mind blowing.
This in the name of biodiversity.
So everyone is getting their collective knickers in a twist about the amount of dosh given to the EU and think nothing of this obscene amount of money to save a few trees and bizarre species of nature nobody has heard of and care even less about - and why should they?
What next £100 billion to bring back the dinosaurs?
Un bel iev able.
- It's not a bad idea to invest in the prevention of climate change, Philip, as the sea-level is said to be rising, and this could cause loss of land, and it would be too expensive to build dykes everywhere, you know!
- alex
i think that philip is suggesting that climate change is not man made, a view shared by so many.
do we also want to build more dykes?
think of all those overalls and doc martens we would have to pay for to keep them going. - Howard, thanks for that you made me spit my can of guinness all over the screen and down my chin. Very funny. Expect a bill for the cleaning.
- Howard, and as for that young Dutch boy!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- Torture has to be carefully monitored.
im against it in general, but recognise the need to catch/deal with
terrorirsts
so in part in agree wth barryw - i am not sure how the head of m.i.6 kept a straight face when making that statement.
all intelligence agencies will use torture to get information, i feel that a lot of the statements given under duress are innaccurate as the person being "interviewed" would say what the interviewers want to hear. - Pipes and drums, Barry!
- nobody deserves to be subjected to cruelty of that kind alex.
woud be more humane to tear out their fingernails. - howard,water boarding is much better,at least he gets his washed,probably the fist time for years.
- sounds more civilised than alex's suggestion.
i could never face being subjected to the pipes and drums, probably accompanied by guards walking past in noisy hob nailed boots. - Iron shod!
- Of course the question now is who carries out the torture - the British or the French?
- Barry, I'm getting worried! Torture doesn't fit in my ideals, but rebuilding churches! I think the Police know how to go about their work, and don't need to use torture methods and don't want to.
- I dont think this is about the police at all Alexander.
- this is another thread that is getting surreal, how does rebuilding churches fit in with security services torturing?
- howard,apparently the pope and the archbishop of canters along with god have taken natinol security from mi5/mi6 and the goverment.
- Howard in answer to your question.
The fish. - thanks for that clarification philip, seems obvious now you say it.
- Think nothing of it my good man. Giving this blog a more international perspective may I wish the GOP all the best today and heartily recommend that the electorate give the democrats a damn good stuffing.
That way at least the next dustbin full of environmental legislation and other nonsense will, for a while at least, protect us from the righteous scumbag environloons. - Alright then, let's keep to the exact topic. So what is verbal abuse, shouting and sensory deprivation?
Is it legal, in Britain, and would it help in any interrogation? In particular sensory deprivation, how do I understand this? And does the picture up above correspond to anything being advocated here?#It seems quite distasteful to me, to be quite honest, and Howard, very surreal! Somewhat overwhelming if I may state so! And disturbing! - alex,your faverite church is up for sale,you know the one that burnt done near the town hall.you might get it at a bargain price and would be able to restore it back to its former glory.
- The church will defend itself, Brian! I think Howard would rather we brought this topic up on a thread than here. If you wish to, I'll join in!
- would be best alex, this blog is purely for resonses to what barry decrees on here.
- heard rumor that its going to be a new tory meating house.
- A slippery slope perhaps towards an EU military force perhaps? It's a boiling frog kinda thing.
- I support Gov's decision here.
- Our government - the daybreak of British politics.
- Philip, as Barry rightly points out in his presentation, we don't need all the originally planned warplanes, as we have allies, hence cost-saving here is good policy!
- Alexander - we do need the planes. We need to be able to carry out independent military action when needed and our own air cover is required for that. Allies are all very well provided their interests are in tune with ours and they have the political will. We cannot guarantee that will always be the case. The cross-decking is useful only as a stop-gap and as a means to keep skills alive while awaiting for the F35Cs.
- Yes indeed there has been a lot of alarmist tabloid stuff about this co-operation with France as BarryW mentions above, but sadly in much the same silly way as when we had talk of the imaginary straight banana as insisted on by a never neverland Brussels.
The world is changing rapidly. and here is the biggest irony of all...Communism is having the last laugh!! It now represents the most buoyant economy on the planet in the shape of China, what with America floundering, but it is still a hard to put a finger on what direction the Chinese nation will take. Very hard to say, but likewise in so many directions the world is moving into uncharted waters.
We therefore need our weaponry in place, but with both the UK and France making economic cuts like never before, and the cost of supertech weaponry spiralling through the roof like never before ( for example HMS Astute..you know, the one that ran aground, cost £1billion pounds)...some sort of agreement to cut costs, to share established resources, is needed.
- China is indeed booming but only because it turned its back on Communism. Yes, nominally it remains a Communist nation but that is in name only. The reason for its boom (from a low level and with that huge population) is based on the free economic zones originally set up around Hong Kong.
It is a 100% capitalist economic boom happening in China. Ironically it is certainly the case that in China it is the new capitalist system and the wealth it has created that has, for now, saved the Communist state from going the same way as other communist states.
Their creaking political system will be forced to catch up with the modern world and it is only time before it collapses. Eventually China will be forced into democracy. It is that transition which will be the biggest world danger. - on the plus side chinese people are reaching the position that they can afford to buy better things for themselves.
soon there will be a chance for us to sell them luxury goods.
it happened before with the pacific rim countries. - Howard,
'soon there will be a chance for us to sell them luxury goods.'
And which luxury goods are GB plc producing right now???? - It's worthy of comment, though, that recently the Army and Navy both stated that Gov. should drastically reduce spending on the RAF, which is what happened when the spending cuts were announced.
This means that the decision is a thought-out one on the Strategy table, hence the air-craft carrier with no planes. The idea to employ French planes within a military-cooperation alliance is a good idea. It could mean that France might build less air-craft carriers.
There are many countries with identicle interests to maintain world-peace, and which have enormous military power, so they would help each-other if a menace broke out, such as the Somali pirate scene. In fact they do, and any one warship in that area would help any vessel under threat of pirates, irrelevant of the nationality.
Gov. has proved worthy of straight-forward thinking here, on military strategy, and has chosen a good ally in France, with identicle interests for world stability. Which is what counts to prevent friction and risks of war, as many countries share the same principles and are prepared to participate in the name of one cause against any menace, such as piracy or smuggling of terror equipment. - Alexander - No you are misinterpreting what is happening regarding the carriers. You are also assuming that the French and british interests always are the same and that the French will always have the same political will as us. That is dangerous and that is why we will have aircraft for the carriers in 2020.
- Britain and France have had exactly the same international interests since the mid nineteenth century, Barry!
- Not at all Alexander:
1/ The French were not exactly fast in coming forward to help us over the Falklands in 1982.
2/ Where were they in the First Gulf War?
3/ I will not critisise them over the second Gulf War, they did not have to listen to Blair's lies.
4/ Where are they in Afghanistan? - safely away from where the toughest fighting is.
Go back further, the Mau Mau campaign in Kenya, the Malay Emergency, Northern Ireland, Belize, the Oman emergency. The French did not have common interest at all with us.
So no - our interests and those of France are not that closely aligned so we need to retain independent military capability.
The biggest reason of course, is political will..... You cannot accept that they will always be with us in that. - I agree with you on that Barry. One also have to take into account the possibilty of lightning strikes by the French which might disrupt any military operation. Actually lightning strikes might not be the best use of words in terms of this particular issue.
- the french fought along side the british on the somme,pashendale etcin world war one,they allso fought along side the british forces in ww2.
- i think the french sold exocet missiles to our argentinian rivals in the falklands conflict if i am not mistaken.
- Remember Brian - in WW1 and WW2 it was the French who were attacked so they had no option than to fight, at least until they had a chance to surrender (in WW2 anyway).
Yes, there is one post WW2 conflict in which we had common cause (and action) with the French - Suez, and we all know how that turned out!
Howard - Exocets, yes. They actually sold them before, not during, the conflict but they were reluctant to provide intelligence and codes that would help defend against them once the conflict started. - I did see on ebay recently a bargain. It was listed as a vintage WW2 French rifle, dropped only once.
- Dear Philip! Do you know that the German army surrounding Dunkurk was given orders not to advance on the British AND allied forces evacuating, which included thousands of French soldiers commanded by General De Gaul? May-be you have also heard of the debacle of Singapore. Tens of thousand of British soldiers and many allies, including Australians, obeyed the orders of the British high command to surrender, because the Japonese DID advance on Singapore.
Also in Greece many thousands of British, Australian and New Zealand soldiers surrendered after not being evacuated to Crete for lack of ships.
I guess that many French soldiers surrendered in 1940 for similar reasons, on orders from high!
War is not as straight forward as one might think, and I wouldn't suggest that the French think certain jokes funny, as the sudden down-turn in the military situation in 1940 must have come as a shock to many people! - No you're right Alexander. It's an old joke and as most people know not true at all. The French were let down by many things during WW2 amongst them very poor equipment (doh! those politicians again!). The fact that the massive line of hard defences, the Maginot line, extented to the Belgium/French border made invasion easy for the Germans.
Respect for all military forces who defended against the Nazis who fought bravely and gave their lives. That respect must continue to this present day and beyond. Warcraft is an inexact science and victories and defeats will abound in all conflicts.
It's like a big game of Risk really. World power politics is never static. Former enemies are now strong allies and visa versa which is why most people are suprised by the speed that the Cameron/Sarkozy pact was signed with virtually no wider discussion as far as I'm aware unless I missed something.
- I have just read that the by-election may be as early as December 2nd. That may rule out the open primary - it is just such a short time.
- barry
i don't think you have learned the lesson of why your party failed to win the last election, despite having nothing much to beat.
negative statements about the opposition, particularly on personality turn off the electorate, if you doubt me ask lord ashcroft. - just been announced that Phil woolas has been suspended by the labour party.
Labour distancing itself from mr woolas.
Mr Woolas says he will fight this 3 year ban.
I just hope that those on here(poltcal or not) who just want to make political gan out of this are consistent in future elections as iv hghlighted in posts elsewhere - Reading the above slogan for the General Election 2010, I was confused, as I thought Labour and LibDems are both in favour of immigration. I actually thought they are the same party in many aspects.
Although I didn't follow what was said on a personal level against a competing candidate.
But I am concerned at the wording on that slogan. To the best of my knowledge, the wording on the slogan depeicted on Phil's campaign sheet is totally illegal in Britain, hence my concern.
If I saw a slogan like that in Britain, calling for beople to be killed for not agreeing with Islam, I'd immediately inform the Police!
- think Mr woolas was sayng the lib dem candidate would not condemn some islamic fanatics view to kill him.
It appears the story to be untrue
But i look forward to scanning all the leaflets at the next election all will im sure be so pure not
- I would trust Phil Woolas much, much more than I would trust any of those who make up the front bench of this present administration.
What he did is normal in terms of hustings but a bigger crime is where the Tories and libs promise the Earth and then do a massive volte face on every issue. Now that's what I call disgraceful.
Add to that the fact that they are willing to give away billions of our money to a lost cause which anyone with a brain cell knows is money burned,well, I will never vote Conservative again until they elect themselves a proper leader with some bottle and some semblance on intelligence. - Sadly from a Labour perspective I dont think Woolas comes across as either likeable or trustworthy and now that the courts have ruled in this way over the election leaflet and his general campaign ... so be it...the party have been quick to respond. They didnt dither at all. Out he goes on his preverbial ass. As for appointing him to the shadow cabinet...much is being made of this but its irrelevant. Who can prejudge a trial and find the guy guilty in advance? No one. A non story this one.
The Election will have to be fought again but doesnt this conjure up a whole dogs dinner of ghastly possibilities. Both the Conservatives and the Libdems will field candidates. Watch the divisions develop there in no uncertain terms. The so far realitively harmonious Coalition will reel as they strike sparks off each other.
The guy that brought this case against Woolas was/is a Libdem...On paper he looks a racing certainty to win as he only lost by 103 votes first time, but that was before they the Libdems signed up with the Conservatives. My feeling is his vote will collapse, as a vote for a Libdem now is a vote for the Conservatives in the current regime, and everyone now sees that. However Labour have sullied their own reputation here and are also unlikely to win. Will the Conservatives benefit? - PaulB - Red Ed has failed a leadership test. His non-response speaks volumes.
Questions were asked regarding his judgement when he first appointed Woolas and that is now confirmed.
Do not underestimate the impact of the Woolas effect on the by-election either. - not as bad as david cameron and his spin doctor,things do look bad,cameron also failed when he enployed him knowingly.
- It wouldn't seem realistic that the two coalition parties have a big argument over one seat in Parliament, they'd more likely leave it to the local candidates, may-be advisinf that the Tory LibDem candidates keep on froendly terms.
- Dear "OH" dear the blues are not doing very well on the Doverforum of late,one could say"They are on the run" and from the other partys in Dover Like the one I lead UKIP,we have more to play with and are geting stonger by the hour,just like our very good football team who UIKP in Dover are backing by saying that the DDC should hand of the ground to the Club, because of all the good and happy faces we now see about the Town,The football club has done more good for the town then any party has done ,so come on DDC do your bit now HANDOVER the ground,and you never know IT might help you in the locals next year,but it was UIKP that said it first.
- Barryw
Mr Woolas has been suspended by the Labour party, almost immediatly after the judgement, clear leadership.
As I say my worry is the wider implications of this judgement - Far from immediate and where is the statement from Red Ed, who appointed Woolas a minister despite him being under a cloud. I have not seen one. Hardly leadership that.
As for the wider implications, I think they are quite positive. - Come on Barry what about my last post,and handing over the Football ground to the Club,Lets keep it local for now,and ground the blues need to make up.
- doubt if the council would do that vic, they collect rent from the whites.
with all the cutbacks due in the near future they would be hard put to justify that to the public. - I think you are wrong there Howard, I think the public would wecome it . Good news for the town at last.
- I know nothing about that Vic and take no interest in football.
- Vic you have no idea how to handle finances .There would be an uproar if DDC did as you suggest .Not everyone supports football .I for one would put more money into our musuem and tourismn .
You cannot got money out of a stone .Perhaps you woud prefer you bins emptied once a month or concessionary bus passes removed .Parks left over grown .Those are the difficult choices that have to be made.
Our Council tax starts at a very low base Revenue has to pay for revenue . - sue,you cant get blood out of a stone either,somehow the council can.
- Sue, I have actually written online articles based on visits to Dover Museum, and information obtained there.
- IPCC. Need I say more?
- Barryw
I will watch with interest future electon leaflets and see if your consistent, i suspect not, but wlll leave it at that
Vic
It's a wonderful Idea for the footy club to have ownership of the ground, but I have no idea what knd of contract they are signed up to, with present climate can DDC afford to give up this dosh?
And like Sue says everyone has pet projects.
And the end of the day the footy club is a business
costng over a million a year to keep afloat, but none the less its a business, and I think they can survive as they are.
Vic we shouldnt get carriedd away with this FA Cup win
taking your view we would sell off anythng that does well
yet you oppose this on the port?
cant wait for me burger and chips tho on 28 or 29 nov lol
- Keith - I am consistent.
We had, with Woolas, one of the most appalling examples ever, one that warranted a Court case.
Labour are particularly fond of lies, hate and distortion in their leaflets.
Conservatives will produce some hard-hitting stuff, certainly, but never as bad as your lot produce.
Libdems can be the worse of the lot when they want to be... - Barryw
I do hope you wll refrain from the term 'your lot'
as there are many good people within the labour party.
I do not accept your view that the tory leaflets are any better than labour or the LIb Dems, nor will i ever, but will remind you over time.
I wil agree the Lib Dem leaflets I see locally hardly ever have much truth in them
should have FICTION on top lol - the yellows are by far the worst in their leaflets, this goes back to the liberal party, i can remember them going around doors with a selection of leaflets. they would decide by the house what party the people were likely to support and then proffer a suitable tract to them.
funnily enough in the last election here their stuff was all above board, much more honest than the two big parties. - HOWARD;
You are partly correct, although i dont share they were more above board at last election
Just been annouced Mr Woolas lost his rightr to go to appeal - I don't know what the fuss is all about over this Woolas affair. After all they all lie in their manifesto and make big promises they know they will never keep. Which is worse Phil Woolas telling a few porkies about the opposition or our gullibility for believing the everlong tissue of lies they spin every election time.
Isn't it time we all grew up? This Woolas affair is faux indignation from the usual suspects and is only of interest to political wonks up and newspapers short of an eye catching headline.
Move on people nothing to see here. - The point is that Woolas exceeded the limits of decency and was an appalling case that stands on its own.
- And will be reminding you of your need to be consistant at future elections
- getting back to the thread/blog here, i still believe the u.n. has a role to play, barry is right about the nefarious states having the cheek to slag off other countries on human rights. however it is important not to isolate dictatorships.
did not our very own "winston" once say that jaw jaw was better than war war? - Sorry Howard but the un is still a bunch of self serving morons. They consign millions to death due to their inept and pathetic attempts at righting wrongs or creating a new world order as they would like to see it. As I mentioned earlier the ipcc which is a un body is causing millions to suffer as a result of their meddlings. The un also want to outlaw DDT which, as it stands at the moment, is one of the most effective way of reducing cases of malaria. But no they want the good natives in darkest Africa to be good boys and girls by providing them with nothing more than mosquito nets!
Well excuse me but what do they expect these poor people to do lie in bed all day and all night?
Then take the various cases of un peacekeeping forces turning a blind eye to atrocities and in many cases abusing children and performing other wicked acts.
Then take the un security council which is in effect an arm of whatever the United States tells it to do. Remember the armtwisting and lies that led up to the Gulf war?
Let's not forget the various un backed initiatives in Afghanistan costing hundreds of millions of dollars which went into the pockets of corrupt officials and did the country no good whatsoever.
Food for oil anyone?
There's much more to criticise. In some ways it's a mirror image of the European union which isn't a good thing is it?
Essentially one big self serving gravy train at our expense. - i cannot argue with what you say philip, but i still like the idea of a talking shop of nations.
once people are debating there is a chance of mutual understanding, alternatively it is better that people are inside p**sing out than outside p**sing in. - Howard the only people talking in the un are those who have a cushy little number who are merely the mouthpiece of those in a higher pay grade in their respective countries. Professional negotiators and all and sundry of paid hangers on. Jaw jaw is fine if what you talk about does not consist of complete rubbish. I'm suprised it lasted so long really being the idiot son of the league of nations.
I agree there should be some sort of international talking shop for important issues to try to be resolved but it seems to me that although there have been success's over the years there is a litany of very bad things the un have done and is doing right now.
I know you are probably bored to death of the subject but the ipcc which a body created by the un is both corrupt and is responsible for the death of many, many people worldwide. It is responsible for starvation and the crippling of real development in poorer states due to it's actions. It purports to be a body which has in its membership climate scientists but most are nothing of the sort. In reality they consist of advocates of green lobby groups, journalists, others with no speciality or a basic grounding in a very complicated science and more importantly others who act on behalf of multi-national corporations who are getting very, very rich by this scam.
It's a scandal but we have in this country, and others, no investigative journalists worth their salt who are willing to investigate this religion/cult.
And do you know which country is the worst in respect of pushing this voodoo snake oil science?
Great Britain.
Led by non other than the panic meister himself Mr. David Cameron the toady to all causes green.
I know this is heresy but this is the man who tells us he wants to cut, cut and cut again (although all he is doing is spending even more than labour ever did) and yet gives yours and mine money away to India, China and whichever country is willing to produce the wind turbines, solar panels and other useless pieces of junk in order that he can sit down at night and tell himself that he has made a difference. Like Gordon Brown laughably telling the commons how he saved the world, this man is a complete loser and will drag us all down with him. - I think Cuba might be happy if the USA and Cuba re-established trade relations.
- Perhaps there should be a standards board for student radicals so that they are discouraged from adopting the stereotypical behaviour associated with, well, students.
Of course it would mean setting up a new quango but let's put that small point to one side. Essentially this new body would encourage a different mindset - one which would be more positive in it's outlook and first on the agenda might be how students and their chosen methods of demonstatiing their various frustrations with all things studenty might be helped by adopting a radical change.
This would be a very welcome first step after all on Mr. Camerons visit to China he trumpeted the values of Western democracy and suggested that the Chinese adopted these and embraced a more open and transparent society and mode of Government.
But think of the wry, inscrutable smile which slowly grew over the faces of the top Chinese officials while the student riots were going on as they appeared on television.
"Yes Mr. Cameron...........We, erm, see you point." - Barryw
Heres a subject we can probably go some way to agreeing on.
The standards board as a body when formed was probably a good Idea and came on the back of so many scandals in councils and with MP's etc.
Sadly they went well over the top, and I have to admit I took little notice of the standards board or officers.
This often landed me in hot water, or dscussions that would see officers attempting to silence me, hidng behind the standards board as a way to do it.
I agree barryw that one of the best people to know what';s going on within the ward is the ward councillor.
The standards board tried to stop councillors that might influence other councillors in decision making which was not always helpful.
I recall attendng a number of licensing meetings on issues within priory/maxton/elms vale and being advised I couldn't speak, but I always talked them round, but a cllr willing just to be led by the officer would not probably challenge the officers.
Over the years I'v had many a battle with solictors at DDC none of my choosing.
The other problem that came about was cllr repoortng cllr, and political parties using it as a tool to discredit other cllrs, many guilty cllrs on this, most will probably deny it today, but they forget all the information of who the person making the claim was is also listed.
And it's clear together with this is declarations of interest another tool to silence the people who may have some knowledge on the subject.
I had to remind Mr Watkins from time to time It';s the councillor themselves that have to declare any interests its not for political leaders to say a cllr shouldn't speak on any issue.
It Is a good move by mr Pickles, but we still do need to make sure cllrs are accountable.
- i never realised that the standards board has such power, doubt they will be missed.
mr pickles wants to devolve powers down to local level, but is not providing any funding for it. our own council fuhrer described it as a "poison chalice", i tend to agree. - I was taken to the Standards Board two times when I was aTown Cllr,I would not back down and went to the Standards board Court,the case was heard over the phone then they came back and told me I was in order in what I had said,at that time it was all in the papers and I had some hate mail.
- i bet you did not recognise my hand writing vic.
- councillors have to publish their personal interests in a public register as it is now.
what people really want to know is how local councils will be able to take on the new responsibilities without the necessary funding. - Not being funny here but this is really of any real consequence. It's meaningless. It means nothing. Why am I not jumping up and down with joy over this move?
- Sorry that was very rude. I'll put the question another way. Who cares and what difference will it make to my life?
- if you care about local democracy and our councillors having the freedom to represent their areas then yes you should be pleased.
- barry,it depends on what standerds you adere to.
- Barryw ths time is correct, so many restrictons on councillors made it nearly impossible to act n the interests of other constituents they were elected to represent.
VIC;
Sadly I to was called to standards by a forumte who didnt have his facts right
and like you vic they threw the case out.
But as pointed out by barryw the costs involved n some of these cases, as well as political parties using the board in an attempt to damage some ones character. - Brian - I want the highest reasonable standard that does not prevent a councillor effectively representing those who elect him or her.
- barry,some stand acused of double standards,not saying that our councillers do.
- With reference to your above theme post, Barry, there is also the fact that self-employed people can find it hard to get enough work, and would do more work if only there was more going!
I often am in this situation. I find it down-grading, demoralising, and wish I could dig a graden every day five days a week, or paint a room or ten dors or a railing.
Somehow I get through, but I do think that our Society really wastes many people's will to work. Here in Dover most people have cemented their front garden, or tiled it, and I ask myself if they did it to annoy me! - Alexander - having been self-employed for over 21 years I have had my quiet and difficult points. Sort out your marketing, there are people/organisations that can help with that.
I do find many great tradesmen have difficulty when it comes to running a business and need help/support. Its there. - I was self-employed for 8years and again barry is right,in my case it was easy because i was well know in the trade, but most of my work as a welder was working for local companys but the work was 90% working away and even overseas,but it is not easy and then it is the Taxman and the book work that goes with it,what you must think about is that you pay no tax for I think itis about year or more but you will have to put that to oneside because later on they will aske for it back and it is a big must keep paying your stamp or later on it will hit you full in the face.always keep funds put by some each week,hard but you must do it,one day you might wish to give up working for yourself and that is the time the taxman will hit you if your bookwork is not up todate,my bill was £12000pounds,I must say i did get some of that back later,so please be very very carfull. Any money you spend out on tools etc keep records on every thing and every penny DATES eTC IT IS A MUST.
- BARRY might do your book work for you ,but there would be a cost to that,because it is his living,you can like I did in the end yourself,with no cost but it is not easy and takes up alot of time and still get it wrong.
- I've got a supply of gardening and painting tools, the will and effort are there! Through them I got my computer, and use it to wirte online. But to give an example, which is also somehow in reference to Barry's theme, there are many railings that belong to public authorities, including public railings, and many of these are really rusty, even breaking apart. They could be painted, the work is there, but pribably not the funding.
Gov. could find some work, even clearing the country-side from litter more often and paying out a few dracmas! - Vic - I dont do 'book work' but I could get the right investments for you.
- In that case Barry it is my family you should talk to ,not me I am the poor one.
- What's the latest news on the fake conservative Cameron? What's he up to lately? Any big plans, any more on the big society nonsense? Still in office?
- Well no Phillip i dont think we would be thinking of Cameron as a fake Conservative, he is very much the archtypical Conservative from a long line of moneyed Conservatives, who are all fast-tracked along the political route through their very good connections. So nothing new there.
This Big Society notion is a curse. Sure it will save government money but look at the cuts we will all have to endure. BarryW speaks about it above in his editorial, about the trillion pound government and expounds the need for small government to effectively save money. I personally prefer big government not big society.
Big Society means cuts. Just today Legal Aid has been cut to threadbare levels leaving the law to be a tool now only for the rich to use. Anyone with an income above £1000 per year will have to pay.This is a very low figure. How is someone in this income bracket to pay for very expensive Law....you know what they charge!! Its a very retro step, its back to the seventies. It will save the government £350,000,000 pounds but renders the wider society that bit less cohesive, as does every cut. - It has to be said that the £1000 represents any personal assets and not a wage of £1000. I understand what you mean when you refer to monied Tories fast tracked etc. There is nothing new there and it is the way those in other political parties climb up the greasy pole to power. Labour used to use and still do to some lesser extent use promising activists in the unions but there is a tendency lately to find their fodder from enviroloon activists, wonks and beeb proles who generally support labour - why do they call it Guardian television?
The libs tend to find their MPs from the winners of speed tofu eating championships and odd looking people in vegetarian restaurants.
The reason for calling Cameron fake is that he seems to hold some very odd ideas which conflict sharply with those of his backbenchers and in turn middle England Tory supporters. Sure he's doing the cuts thang but that's a no brainer in these troubled times. Only a fool like a labour MP would support further spending although Dave's cuts are not really cuts but a slower increase in the rate of public spending. Over the next few years we will be spending more HAC in order to service whatever it is that has to be serviced.
I agree with you entirely on the issue of legal aid. The amount saved is set to be a small sum in the grand scheme of things and yet ecodave is quite happy to be spending a minimum of £18 billion of our money on green causes ( and that's only one aspect of it - the rest is far higher than that) yet sees fit to let Let'emallout Clarke make drastic cuts in legal aid.
This is the politics of the sixth form. It's unrealistic and very, very naive and simple minded.
As for Dave's well being index or whatever the hell it is I just despair!
This is the politics of the back of a Pink Floyd album and is as far removed from people's lives as, well I dunno, Scientology I guess.
Even his backbenchers think the man is barking on this and other issues. - philip,never mind you will be able to vote for labour at the next genrael election.
- this legal aid issue is about not very much money in deficit cutting terms, seems more of a political thing.
i can see the good side with an end to our litigious culture and or fat cat legal people deprived of easy money. the asset limit of a grand is laughable.
on the bad side what this means is that justice is only available to the better off. - Brian I'd rather eat my own foot than ever vote labour. To be honest I must give it to those still MPs and those campaigning on their behalf their due in respect to the fact that they can still look people in the eye as if nothing untoward and extremely, extremely bad has been allowed to happen under their administration.
- What it does mean Howard is that cases brought in the civil courts will have a reduction in legal aid. This is to a large extent cosmetic as in the main most people have to contribute something toward civil proceedings with only the loser paying the whole of the costs. Legal aid has never been available for certain cases ie libel and slander, those have always been the preserve of the rich.
Legal aid will still be available as a right to the defendant in criminal charges, where the accused has insufficient of his own funds to cover the cost of his defence.
As regards "fat cat" lawyers there are in fact very few, for instance a high court judge, who has to have at least 15 years experience, probably earns less than a top cabinet minister and has to have infinitely more experience.
A judge administers justice and is a vital part of our society, unlike the "fat cat" bankers and their associates who might put a few quid in the national "coffers" but in the big picture contribute very little. - thanks for that alan.
it would be good that you clean your toenails prior to biting your foot off, hygiene is so important. - Alan - the banks and financial services contribute £billions in tax revenues, provide hundreds of thousands of jobs and is one of the most important overseas earners.
The 'fat cat' bankers and their associates perform a vital role. - PaulB - it is your love of big government and the national addiction to it that is the villain causing our relative economic decline.
If you want more prosperity and wealth as a nation we must shrink back the state dramatically, far, far more than the present government is doing.
If we can get the size of the state down to the level of Communist China then we will have made progress and may once again become an economic powerhouse that will see rising living standards for all of us. - ok barry you dislike big government, what are your views on the "big society"?
i have yet to meet someone that knows what it means. - Spot on Barry! Financials are now the only thing keeping this country afloat. Without these big companies in London earning us billions We are well and truly knackered. Over decades there has has been instilled into the mindset of many in our country a soft socialist mindset which is neither left nor particularly political but renders one ineffectual and unable to withstand the rigours of the real world. This is all well and good when times are good and the economy booming but when things get tough we leave ourselves open to the extremely fierce competition where we will be the only loser unable to compete because we have gazed our navel for so long to look outward is a terrifying thing.
Consider who else is in a position to help us earn our way out of trouble. Top end engineering companies, energy companies, including those evil oil conglomerates, defence manufacturing, financials, tourism are among those which we do excel at.
But consider what David Cameron sees as the alternative - his vision for a brave new unpolluted and caring sharing world.
Windfarms.
That's it. It's brilliant isn't it? No I'm wrong it's sheer brilliance!
Windfarms.
No bonus's for those who earn this country billions they are nasty, evil swine who should be culled. They deserve nothing more than a jolly sound thrashing and no mistake.
Windfarms.
Made in China, Germany and other far flung regions but installed here in Great Britain.
Oh! I nearly forgot.
Smart meters.
Great Scott another brilliant scheme to save the economy.
Smart meters made in China - millions of the bloody things.
I bow to the greater wisdom of the annointed one, the one whose name we can only whisper.
Smart meters.
Truly our economy is saved. People rise up and let Church bells peel for the chosen one has once again led us to the promised land.
Windfarms and smart meters.
Sing aloud and celebrate:
"Laus unus quisnam addo nos wealth.Praise exsisto unus quisnam addo nos windfarms quod smart meters
Laus unus quisnam addo nos wealth.Praise exsisto unus quisnam addo nos windfarms quod smart meters.
Laus unus quisnam addo nos wealth.Praise exsisto unus quisnam addo nos windfarms quod smart meters."
Amen.
- I have a theory.
Do you all remember Stevenson's novella the Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, where mild mannered Dr Jekyll would imbibe his potion and turn into the dangerous ranting Mr Hyde?
Is Philip, Dubris the evil alter-ego of Barry W?
Has anyone seen the pair of them in the same room? - Bob you have a vivid imagination but sadly no I have nothing to do with Barry. I am guilty of ranting now and again but such is the peril of reaching a certain age. Surely it's more important to respond to what is said and damn my argument, after all, that's what makes these things fun. Believe it or not I actually like to be proved wrong on any single issue - it's invigorating and keeps the mind active and is far cheaper than paying for one of those brain trainer things.
Sorry to disappoint but sadly I'm a mere keyboard warrior venting my spleen but isn't that what these things are for?
Well done for refering to Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde by the way. A great story and one which we are all prone to given the right, or wrong circumstances. - Howard - there is no single explanation for the meaning of the Big Society, it is many things.
At one level it is about taking responsibility for yourself, your family and neighbours and not thinking 'oh, the council/government should sort it'
At another level it is about community action and charity. The People's Port is one type of Big Society project, as are free schools.
There is little truly new, it is about more of what has been done in the past.
We should expect less from The State and do more ourselves.
What is new is an active State encouraging this, shrinking itself and dropping powers/roles. - barryw,whats the differance between the big society and the big con.
- In reality the big society rhetoric is merely preparing us for the inevitable cuts which will have a massive impact on services up and down the country. Some would say it's clever spinning so that when things do get tough big society in action might serve to enable folk to get out and do something. However, I cannot see this working. Society is fragmented, perhaps moreso than ever although I'm not an historian so there's no point in me trying to see back in time with rose tinted glasses.
So, for example, when the inevitable bailout comes to the "aid" of Ireland the EU will insist on even deeper cuts to public services and the pay of those who work for those services - that is if they still have a job. On a very, very local level (next door and next door to that) people will support eachother. Families will find themselves closer in order to give members support be it moral or financial. The middle classes will find it easier than most to form networks that would cater for mutual support within groups formed which serve their own special interests because they have been doing that very successfully for many years.
However bins will still need to be collected by public sector workers along with a whole host of other services which we rely on. There will be big cuts to those services up and down the spectrum but there will be a vacuum where those losses will never be made up. Who in their right mind is going to drive round and collect people's rubbish to take up the tip?
I don't think the idea is a con but nothing but political rhetoric. If anything it confuses people. They are left wondering what else, what initiative of any substance is there in order to pull us out from the wreckage the last labour government left - the mother of all car crashes!
For those who dislike suffering alone as well as those who enjoy half a glass of Schadenfreude now and again with their canapes they might well let a little wry smile appear to witness what is happening in the eurozone. The imminent demise of the euro, the great dream broken and red faces from those who campaigned for this country to join the euro.
Me? I'm off to the kitchen to place some olives on mini sausages with a sprinkle of parmesan and garnish of greek basil leaves. - The 'con' Brian is in Big Government and the idea the governments have the solution to all our problems. Government is usually the problem.
- interesting post philip, the aid to ireland could cost us 7 billion quid, what happens when greece want more because of their underestimation of their deficit?
today we find that portugal is in a similar state and will need bailing out.
i have said before on here that the idea of the voluntary sector filling the gap of central government in some areas is ill thought out. the vast majority of volunteers are retired people.
the retirement age is rising all the time and will continue to do so, where will the volunteers come from?
you are right that the middle classes will know what to do in the event of crises and will know how to present their case.
this will be proved with the "free schools" issue - Well again just come out of the EU would give us the funding we would need to save the UK
- To expand the theme above and to pull out some information from the programme that is truly staggering.
The total government debt, including PFI and Pension liabilities is £4.8trillion.
If every home (house and flat) in the UK were sold at todays values then you would still be £1trillion short of paying off that debt.
More in spent on welfare alone than is collected in income tax.
Even with george osborne's 'cuts' the government will be spending the same, perhaps more, in 5 years time than it is now.
The claim by Labour politicians that public spending stimulates growth is the biggest myth of the 20th century.
This claim was explained by illustrating a blood transfusion. The taking of blood from one arm, carrying it around to the other side while spilling some from the bowl and injecting it back in through the other arm.. The reason being that the government has no money of its own, it has only what it takes from us.
For decades we have been taught and inculcated with the daft idea of the Welfare State and that public spending is good and the solution to the problem.
The fact is public spending IS THE PROBLEM.
It would take great courage to change this but that is what must happen. A smaller state, with public spending cut by more than half to around 25% of GDP will be a start. Taxes cut as well, no-one paying tax on income of £12,000 pa and a single flat rate of tax of 20% (with no NI, just another tax) on all other income.
Part of this will be massive cuts in welfare spending, no-one who is capable of work should be claiming any benefits.
The NHS must also be privatised and we should shift to an insurance based system. Compulsory medical insurance for everyone based on Germany's system perhaps. The poor do get treated there, incidentally. - Good morning each and Barry.
Broadmoor Prison is chock-a-block with people who attend to the voices in their head. Who latch on to an idea and run with it and who are certain that their 'logic' leaves no loose ends.
Care must be taken.
There is, not unnaturally, another way to look at all this. Might I suggest that you each search out Greg Philo through Daily Finance dot co dot uk.
It is unfortunate that the drive towards smaller Government begins with smaller minds.
I shall poottle down the list of comments here to see how you are all doing. I trust life goes on. - Tom Greg Philo seems to have a fundamental problem with basic facts and figures. I saw his piece to camera recently where he described Britain having a national debt of £800 billion. Hmmmn fail!
He seems, very much like those who can't do but teach in our universities, to hold very unreconstructed socialist leanings. His one off taxing the rich to sort out the national debt is the sort of thing we used to hear about in the pubs spouted by bar room economists. I suspect there is a place available to him in Broadmoor unless he keeps these bizarre ramblings to himself and cosy inner circle up at the university of Glasgow.
I'm not sure what you mean when you talk about those who favour smaller government having smaller minds. I believe the reverse is true - big government, cradle to grave government is the thing that keeps the population and workers in control. You only have to look at China, parts of South America, far flung regions of the islamic world, blimey North Korea and Burma.
One has to be mad as a box of frogs to want bigger government.
Barry as for the myth that public spending stimulates growth being the biggest myth of the 20th century - not quite but a very close second to the really big myth of all time (excluding there is a God) and that is the myth of man-made climate change.
- Doh that should have read,
"big government, cradle to grave government is the thing that keeps the population and workers under control" and not "in control".
Like Greg Philo, a fundamental mistake. - Philip - I agree with you about mad-made climate change. This is more about scientists bidding for research cash than anything else. It is a good comparison but I still say the welfare state con is a bigger myth.
- people power,come the revelution.
- Harriet Harman's attack at PMQ the other day was on this topic of elected Police Commisioners/Executives or whatever theyre called. She reckoned young Cameron was spending £100,000,000 million of your money setting this system up. Seems like an awful lot of money, but when you get to that many zeros who can tell.
Harriet, the battling housewife, felt that this money should be spent on frontline policing...and who can argue with that?
After all, despite grumblings and denials to the contrary by HMG, we are seeing the number of frontline police officers cut bigtime, as has been reported in the news this week (Manchester). - PaulB - do not take too much notice of her costings.
This is not an additional layer, it is to replace a layer and generally should be cost neutral.
Batty Hatty was hopeless yesterday in PMQs.....
The specific cuts PaulB are down to the individual police authorities. Besides, even with fewer officers, provided you can get rid a lot of the absurd amount of paperwork you could still end up with more police out on the streets where they count. - barry
the government(like yourself) keep banging on about cutting paperwork for police, this would be an excellent move that would go down well with the public.
6 months later we still get the same hot air, acts of parliament are not required here, just the home secretary to send a round robin memo to the constabularies telling them to scrap certain forms.
what do we get instead?
another new idea that will take up time and money and will not make a scrap of difference in lowering the crime rate.
i can only think that it fits in with their plans to cut prison places. - horward,nice post.as a matter of fact a very nice post.
- So Philip-educate us-what is causing climate change?
- If you don't mind me saying Richard you ask the wrong question. Google is your friend if you're careful not to stumble upon the answer by reading propaganda put out by greenpeace, friends of the earth (or their bank account), the bbc, prince charles, mark lynas, the conservative party and all manner of special interest groups who have something to gain in this little scam.
Perhaps the question you should ask is why this country, which accounts for 2% of carbon emissions worldwide are intent on economic suicide by passing a law which would bring our emissions down by 80% of this figure by the year 2050.
That is the real question.
2%. That's a very small figure is it not? So while we commit hari kari the rest of the world keeps manufacturing the things we like consume and we can feel good by telling ourselves that we didn't make that stuff, those nasty carbon belching foreigners did it.
Meanwhile we become a banana republic whilst the rest of the world develops, gets rich and in general make humanity even better.
We become poorer and they become richer.
We wait for the wind in order to light our sitting rooms and they enjoy the deserved fruits of their labour.
As a nation we are the foolish ones wouldn't you say? We actually put a cross on the ballot paper and voted for these buffoons.
We deserve all we get. - i must admit that i am totally confused on the climate change issue.
there are so many scientists that just happen to have a book being published that issue sound bites that go over the head of plebs like me.
it all reminds me of that untalented bloke that wrote "the bible code". - That's the idea Howard, create a state of confusion. Blanket propaganda is the key. If you're a scientist or researcher in need of funds simply add climate change into your latest research paper and hey presto the money magically appears.
You're a biologist studying dung beatles? Tell 'em you are finding out how climate change affects the breeding habits of said bug and you can look forward to a tidy little sum.I had to laugh today reading a report today by some clown who goes by the name of Vladimir Petoukhov. He laughably reckons that global warming will lead to colder winters. John Cleese, Eric Idle eat your heart out.
Bonkers eh?
Did you know that every single environmental correspondent on the bbc is not in possession of a qualification related to climate science or anywhere near that. Caroline Lucas, leader of the bedwetters party, has an enlish lit degree which some might say gives an insight into what the weather will be doing in 100 years time.
None of the Tory front bench have any qualifications in these sciences either but have been persuaded by very dodgy people to believe - oh the tyranny of the experts eh?
An experiment:
Ask anyone, anyone of your friends or collegues who worry about global warming exactly how much carbon dioxide is in the atmosphere.
I guarantee you that they will not know. I promise you they will have no idea and will give you a figure of anywhere from five percent to twenty percent.
Then ask them how much as a percentage of this figure mankind is contributing.
They will have no clue I promise you.
Such is our ignorance.
Oh the tyranny of the experts. - Sorry Barry I've managed to hijack your blog. Apologies. I happen to agree with you on elected police commissioners although how much the public is really concerned with the issue is another matter. By the way, what on earth was Lord Young thinking? Talk about an Aunt Sally. Sheesh!
- philp,so you are saying bullcrap baffles brains then.
- Philip you mention Lord Young there...yes he made outrageous statements and Downing Street have been very quick to distance themselves from him and his statements. As a consequence he has humbly apologised for his 'insensivity'.
Lord Young, another wholly out of touch multi-millionaire and far too old, and a recent government appointee by Prime Minister Cameron, said that "most Britons never had it so good in this so called recession!"
and in essence added that "100,000 public sector job losses a year was a price worth paying".
An indication of someone wholly out of touch with the public mood...he should now be put out to grass on pastures new!
To be fair though to the Conservative high command, they have dropped this rambling rant like a hot brick calling it "offensive". - How touchy people are.
He was wrong to say what he did but you still have to laugh at the over-the-top reaction.
Lord Young was one of the most able Ministers under Mrs T. She used to say of him that when other Ministers brought her problems he brought solutions.
Yes he was wrong, people are worried about their jobs, people are concerned about what the future brings and things are going to get tougher before they get better.
But they will get better and, in a historical context, in a way he was right as well. For most people their worse fears will turn out to be groundless and while there may be a period of retrenchment they will emerge from it all the stronger. It was wrong of him, however, to say what he did at this time but it is also wrong to overreact. - barry
politicians have a sell by date, lord young may have been excellent in the 1980's, maybe he is still living in that era.
his comment resounded of mr heseltine saying that "unemployment was a price worth paying.
Lord Young Has Resigned.
Yes indeed both the guys are right there, he was an able and very well liked Minister in the Thatcher era. In fact I met him personally myself in my London days and a very pleasant guy he was.
But as we all know, age is a big player in life. It comes to us all, the grim reaper scythes his way through the corridors of power as much as he does everywhere else, and where as Lord Young hasnt as yet been scythed over by the grim reaper, old father time has certainly skittled him. He is just too old.
Mr Cameron was clearly spitting feathers on the lunchtime news and I suspect LY was given the push in actuality.- david seemed enraged, the resignation letter must have been the same one that cecil parkinson handed to margaret thatcher on "spitting image".
dear cecil, you're sacked. - shame he was the true face of the tories as barryw says.
would have been more helpful to other parties had he stayed - To give David Cameron his due he is very swift when dealing with potential hazards. He has made errors but when he's done so , he has corrected them very fast.
Look at the recent situation with the photographer for example. Now we all now he shouldnt have hired him on the public purse, but once DC spotted the mood on it, he dropped the idea and acknowledged the mistake.
Likewise what was he thinking when he appointed Lord Young, however once the mistake manifested itself he acted. Now you might wonder what his judgement is like in the first place but....thats another story. - yep hes a shrewd geezer
on this point anyway - paul b and keith
totally disgree with you over the photographer and film maker business.
the blue press were up in arms over this for weeks warning him that the story would not go away, finally a great day came around to bury bad news(the royal wedding notification) and he did it then to try and save face. - Bit of a toast dropper on the burningourmoney blog. The size of the national debt is even higher than was told on Martin Durkins programme the other night. Phew, a bit grim.
- Good to see Chris Huhne is getting to grips with our future lack of electricity by continuing to get his eco-knickers in a twist by still going on and on and on about his brave stance to not let a portrait of HRH in his grubby little eco-office. There's a big bust up between himself and another pointless minister Greg Barker over this issue.
Still, when in a few years time people die from the cold and the family will not be able to gather round to watch Strictly, at least we can console ourselves that such high principles are being fought over.
Truly inspiring I think. - what i find amujsing is vince cable on tv attempting to justify the lib dems sell out of the electorate.
all the pledges made prior to election and the promise on tution fees, has been thrown out the window by lib dems
he now says well yep we were voted in on that promise
but that dont matter
we now have a cobbnled together govt agreement so the promises meant nothing.
so in future when you vote lib dem just remember public appearances making promises to oppose things doesant mean anything at all if your with the lib dems.
the electorate wont be so forgiving of the lib dems at next general election. - typical polaticions,say one thing mean another.must think were pleabs or somthing.
- It would be far better for the Libdems to hold up their hands on this one, instead of the slippery semantics Vince Cable is coming out with. Denying that pledges have any value now...reason: because they didnt win the election outright. They were never going to!! Jeezez!!
I think it has gone way beyond that Brian. We are used to politicians being vague with their answers, maybe even vague with the truth, but the recent Libdems capitulation and complete reversal of all promises to the electorate has brought shame on them. There is no other word for it...shame. - paulb,true enough but as the picture above indicates this goverment might be going the same way,with out a referendum or ratifacation.
- Well thereyou have it,UKIP have been saying this woud happen for some years now,and it has,I rest our case.
- More an article of faith for UKIP Vic.
- not just ukip, been an article of faith with me since that night the bureaucrats were popping the champagne corks live on telly.
it came across to me as saying "we are the masters now". - The difference though Howard is that the whole reason for UKIPs existence is our membership of the EU.
Much as I hate and detest that organisation and would love to see it collapse and fall apart, there are other things I want as well.... - Just as well you didn't feature the white cliffs behind the sinking ship there Barry - you may well have mistakenly used stock pictures of the Seven sisters in Sussex rather than our own pillars of chalk. I know there are cuts but to be featured in todays Daily Mail DDC must be feeling rather ill.
In terms of the subject matter perhaps it's time to invest in some gold or silver. It's not looking good for Europe at the moment and this is why (if we are allowed by the EU) to look further Eastwards and to the BRIC states to develop our economy. - Take care over BRIC investment Philip - you should get advice first. I have a slice of BRIC myself but there are significant volatility risks. China could develop a bubble, there have been warnings about that, Brazil is a potential boom zone but it has some significant problems, India and Russia have their own problems.
A BRIC portfolio is good but it needs a good manager and should be part of a broader investment approach.
its what I do.... - Phillip, why DDC?
The matter you're relating to is Dover Town Council
Watty - Yes Paul I stand corrected it wasn't DDC but as you said Dover town council. We all make msikates I guess. Mind you not as big a mistake made by our present government's populist policy to bash the bankers. It seems that, as was warned by those in the know, hedge funds are taking their business overseas leaving London probably never to return.
Puts my little oversight into some perspective nes pas? - Well it's looking alot worse all round today. Bond yields have risen for those foolish to lend to certain European naions who have no hope of paying their debt. Some are saying that it's the end of the Euro as we know it leaving either a two tier euro or a euro which exists for the big players only while the ex-euro states reverting to their previous currency. What a godawful mess! To think all this trouble and possible collapse in the blink of an eye since this fiat of all fiat currencies was invented.
One thing that remains constant however is human nature. Greed and the unwillingness to listen to siren voices who foretold of such calamities were brushed aside by those who really, actually believed that they were the creators of the new order. They probably believed that they would never die either.
Still nice to know that history will continue to repeat itself again and again and again till our sun explodes and wipes us all out.
Local news - some six inches of global warming is set to land in the south east sometime over the weekend so take care out there but don't forget to turn down that thermostat by one degree in order to save the planet.
Ha.
Ha ha ha ha.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaa. - We were discussing bond yields at a conference yesterday (yes, indeed, what an exciting life I lead!!!)
If if consider Germany to be the strongest economy and rate them, say, zero - UK rates are 0.65 (1 or under is good), Portugal are 6 and Greece are 9. (The figures are for Greece and Portugal are to the nearest whole number and from memory.)
These are massive spreads within the Eurozone (which excludes the UK) and illustrates the madness of trying to cobble together such divergent economies into a single currency. - This from the head of the department of energy and gravity and cracks in the pavement can cause cancer and climate change Mr. Chris Huhne:
"Everyone believes their pet project will make an essential contribution to the recovery.
But in energy security and climate change, we have the numbers on our side.
The value of the global low-carbon goods and environmental services market is expected to reach £4 trillion by the end of this Parliament. It is growing at 4% per year, faster than world GDP.
Our share of that market is £112 billion. In the UK, nearly a million people will be employed in the low-carbon sector by the end of the decade."
Expect bond yields to increase to 40% by the end of this Parliament with this lunatic in post.
- Whether you subscribe or not to 'man made' global warming in one thing Phillip.
It is quite another that Huhne is talking about here.
Are you suggesting that the low-carbon goods/environmental services market will not reach £4trillion - if so what is your data and source?
Are you denying that it is growing 3% faster than world GDP - if so what is the alternative data and source?
Are you denying that our market share is worth £112 billion - if so what is your data and source?
Are you suggesting that this sector will not employ a million people by the end of the decadem - if so (well you know the rest)
Man made global warming may be a con, or not, but that con is feeding a whole industry and there is nothing wrong with the UK exploiting that for jobs and profit. - Calm down Barry, calm down.
Think about it for a second. It's merely another bubble waiting to burst - no different to the housing bubble in the states and Ireland for example. It's no different to the boom to bust we in the west are experiencing because we put so much trust in politicians and bankers and gave them free rein to make money until the entire Ponzi scheme collapsed leaving us where we are now.
I certainly do deny all that he is saying. The price of carbon traded on the carbon trading market (ridiculous I know but there it is) has floored. The Chigago carbon exchange has shut down it's carbon trading operation. This was set up by non other than people like Al Gore who made sure he trousered a few million before this happened.
How on this earth will one million people in this country find gainful employment in this sector? Changing light bulbs? Fitting loft insulation? Shoving leaflets through peoples letterboxes warning of rising polar bears?
China, Russia and India and other developing nation care not a tinkers cuss about carbon dioxide. If they did they would not be developing at breakneck speed and powering up their grid like there's no tomorrow. Sure they talk the talk when it suits them which is why it will be those nations producing and profiting from making the rubbish we will import in order to proclaim our greenery.
Copenhagen was a noted failure, Cancun is already seen in the same light. Activists and those who certainly do stand to make millions by fleecing us are doing their level best to talk up the market hence why huhne is spouting this rubbish second hand as if he's just left a conference of windfarm salesmen and is going to live the life of luxury on the huge pile he will make.
You do say some odd things Barry.
On the one hand you suggest that the whole thing might be a con but then you say we should profit from this con.
Is this a morally, ethically and economically cogent argument to take part in the scam? Hmmmn not the firmest foundations to set oneself in order to pull UK plc out of the economic mess it finds itself in.
If I tried to persuade you to set up a company who might profit from an event, say the poles reversing, wouldn't you think I was either slightly mad or a conman?
Times are desperate when we are reduced to trying to make money from something that you yourself suggest may be a con. God help us. - Oh I forgot to mention, those numbers. £4 trillion? Erm, he made them up.
Never trust a minister of state who has an Andy Warhol portrait of the Queen in his office rather than the tradional image. - Great news!! What powers are you giving me over discipline?
- more importanty who will buy mr gove a new wig in these cash strapped times.
- Gove has stated that those with third class degrees would be in effect excluded from teaching by way of denying them funding for teacher training and yet according to the directgov website as well as policy statements from Gove himself plans have been put in place to fast track those with "several years of professional experience in areas such as financial services or high tech industries." This would, according to reports include ex soldiers.
One can only assume that the subjects taught by these fast tracked teachers would be restricted to, say, creeping up on the enemy and making the best use of CDS's in todays rather shaky financial climate.
- I am sure that you have read the papers this morning Matt so I wont repeat that.
I will, however, in my next blog explain why I only gave Gove two and a half and what I think should be done.
- that chappie is a bit of a cad,he comes a cross a bit of a creep to me.
- Gove's latest idea to put candle making and knitting heavy cardigans on the curriculum to help combat future power outages over the next few years makes complete sense to me. It encourages an old fashioned make do and mend mindset which helped Britain so much during the dark days of World war 2.
- Watching Ken Clarke on Question time tonight I forsee the future - Ken Clarke will be elected leader of the Lib Dems. It should make for interesting politics in the future.
- Following on from Philips reference to BBC's Question Time...
Ken Clarke is one of the most enjoyable of politicians, he has lots of charisma, and his tone almost always resonates well with the public. He is now one of the old school and showed some solid harmony last night with another old stalwart of my formative years, Paddy Ashdown. The pair still supporting both Europe and the Euro...which was fascinating considering what we've been through recently.
Mr Farage was also on and I dont know, he seems to roll out the same words time after time, and was given short shrift by the dynamic but ageing duo of Clarke and Ashdown.
The Labour person on the panel was a new name and a new face to me, she was alas unmemorable save for the fact that she incessantly waved her hands about like a sailor signalling metaphore, or whatever its called. I wanted to throw my shoe at the screen and tell her ...for gawdsake calm down! But she shows potential. De Piero or something similar she was called.
But back to Mr Gove. I dont have faith in him and am concerned he will turn the education system into mush, he seems to be going for wild but unconvincing radicalisation, and as has been said before, he has that worrying wide-eyed look about him...like an innocent playing in a summer garden. He is beginning to come across as ever so slightly mad! - paulb,try semifore the art of flag speak.
- Ah thats the one Brian...I knew it was one of dem ...
jeez this Labour girl did one heck of a lot of hand gesturing and often with arms fully akimbo...I thought she was going to rap Farage in the gob at one point. Purely be accident of course! - PaulB - the education system is mush now, totally dumbed down and a shadow of what it should be.
Time perhaps for the State to hand over education entirely to the private sector.....
- i watched some of "question time" but it is still about low level points scoring and each panellist appealling to the part of the audience that supports them.
i still remember the one with the bloke from the b.n.p. being ignored by jack straw, totally cringeworthy. - Interesting stuff Barry. There's alot in what you say although it all sounds rather complicated. Perhaps one of the first actions any sensible government could do is ban faith schools. They seem extremely divisive to me and do nothing but create a sense of us and them and encourage segregation between different groups.
Among the most hated group of people in the states are the teaching unions. The power they hold and the damage they have done to the American education system is, according to some, partly to blame for the standards of education in the US which to a certain extent is a mirror image of ours in terms of failing standards.
Back to question time last night I think the only person who talk any sense at all was Nigel Farage. Ken Clarkes bluster and his overly rehearsed line that UKIP blame bad weather on the euro which he used twice in the same show exposed him as a cheap blatherer, a bar room politician.
Paddy ashtray reverted to type and now is reduced to phrasing his ideas in portentious and grave tones in order that it gives the impression that what he has to say is the truth and is of serious importance - basic media training and method acting and the audience fall for it every time.
No point in talking about the author or the labour mp, what they had to say on all the issues was irrelevant.
One thing that did concern me was that on the one hand all those who came down against the ideas expressed by Howard Flight found call me Dave's joke about dwarves hilarious. Had he made a similar joke where the punchline involved some racial element he would be hounded out of office quicker than you can hurl a dwarf in a dward throwing contest.
A certain amount of hypocrisy reared it's ugly head once again by those who are there to lead us. - a couple of things there philip, with you on faith schools.
they give the children the impression that they better or at least different to other children. the family can always send their children to sunday schools or the like if they wish.
disagree with you on the joke, mr bercow is not a dwarf, he is 5 ft 6 inches tall, below average yes but not suffering with a disorder.
mrs bercow even made a joke back, saying that she must be snow white. - The boss did you get my email,thank you. We have had a power cut in River.
- as i said mr gove's is a cad.
- You dont know him Brian - you are merely demonstrating prejudice.
- Hi Vic, yes indeed did get your emails, have been out all day but will take a look at them now and get back to you later. Many thanks.
- barry,i dont claim to know him,just judgeing him on his tv apearances as a cad.
- How shallow that is Brian.
- I think the term 'privatisation' is a bit emotive and off-beam, Barry. I think what you mean is mutualisation or communisation, which is what we are trying to achieve with the Port. Privatisation implies that schools would in future be run for profit and most people would not stand for that. Schools ought to be independent charitable trusts run only for the benefit of their 1. pupils and 2. Staff.
- Well put Peter, but I think Barry means 'privatisation'. The 'companies' bit makes that clear.
You know 'company' like those that look after the railways, the ones that we still subsidise although not through 'vouchers'. The companies that cut out smaller stations because they are not 'commercially viable'. The companies that set their own tariffs, increasing prices where more profit can be made but not necessarily improving standards. - Peter - I mean all of it.
Yes why not privatisation and why not make a profit, they will only do so if they deliver what is needed, a good education.
I am not advocating a one size fits all here.
There is room for all types, yes mutualisation, yes employee takeover whether for profit or not, yes to companies, yes to parent take-overs. I am really do not care as long as schools are taken away from the dead hand of the state.
And, yes DT1, companies, like the ones who produce the food that keeps you alive, the medicines that treat you and make the clothes you wear. - privatisation of education is frankly a non starter.
everyone rattles on about "mickey mouse" qualifications now, imagine the exam results if a firm got paid on a success rate?
we all know about the training companies that started riding the gravy train about 20 years ago, no-one ever finished a course without a qualification, even those who rarely turned up. - Indeed Howard, Mickey mouse qualifications and that produce the type that come out with reports about passive smoking half the planet. Why can't the people who carry out these rubbish surveys get a real job?
- Copy and paste the word killing between the word smoking and the word planet.
- quite right philip, unprovable "facts" keep many people in ungainful employment.
having said that i will have to check out whether my application to be "nonwhite, disabled, lesbian, bird watching, trainspotting equalities adviser" has proved succesful in getting me an interview.
frankly i doubt it, those people in kabul are not really into it. - Too true. If secondhand tobacco smoke was really responsible for so many deaths it would have been made a class A drug years ago but there is no evidence whatsoever to support the flimsy theory so things remain as they are, thank goodness although the health fascists via some european legislation will no doubt be banning smoking in one's own home if there are children present no doubt.
Michael Jackson once sang "I believe that children are our future" but the way we have treated the education of our children and use children as pawns in a proxy political class war is nothing short of scandalous.
Take the teaching of spelling. Here is a classic example of how one side has changed what worked really well for generations ie. phonics and was replaced by another method on purely political grounds.
The same can be said of the teaching of history, geography and to bring us up to date, science where every subject in that sphere is connected with environmentalism.
There's something very sinister about that don't you think? It brings to mind another mass brainwashing which led to world war 2.
It is the duty of the older generation to educate the next as best as possible and to date, over the past few decades, the older generation has failed the young. Top down control of teaching methods change with the latest educational fad it seems to me and this has done enormous damage. Why do so many leave school without the ability to read, write, spell and add up properly?
And now, with serious competition from all corners of the earth in terms of academic ability, we are letting these young adults down yet again by taking a knife to further education.
Years ago talk was that we would become a screwdriver economy. It seems to me that sooner than we think we will end up as a screwdriver maker economy if we're lucky. - But I don't subsidise those companies that I supposedly 'need' Barry. Unless of course you count the fact Phillip Green, the tax dodging, high street fashion millionaire, is on the government payroll.
Additionally the companies you list are concerned with commodities, very different from the shared rights set out by a civilised and progressive society. Unfortunately Capitalists don't seem to be able to differentiate, treating infrastructure, education, health and freedom as commodities. It is easy to plant potatoes and work out how much profit you can make, but to apply the same principles to education, freedom, heritage or health is absurd. The process has a cost but the product does not have a obvious quantifiable outcome. This is part of the reason the Conservatives introduced the National Curriculum and worthless league tables and why DC wants to 'measure' wellbeing, so that they can put a 'value' on these complex issues. This is why the constant response to these futile empirical acts is that 'you know the cost of everything yet the value of nothing', clearly exemplified by cutting funding to physical education.
I think we all agree that education should not be about turning every individual into an academic but I'm not sure Mr Gove's white paper addresses this fundamental goal. This is not just a failing of this government but that of the previous government and the government previous to that. I would like to see an approach set out by ideology rather than one set out by political point scoring. The only reason Mr Gove has raised the bar to 35% is because it denies the last government of showing improvement, albeit by their rather crude measures.
If you stand by the idea that these targets are valid descriptors of 'success' you must also deny the concept of Grammar school selection. You can't have both. - school should be free from the age of 5 untill they are 18 or 25 if going to uni.
- Oh My God!
Oh My God!
The buffoon has spoken. I know he's a crazy mixed up kid at heart but this is too far surely?
"Writing in the Observer on the eve of the Cancún climate talks, David Cameron says Britain is prepared to act unilaterally against climate change, "setting a shining example domestically for other countries to follow".
Truly we are all now screwed. - While we're on the subject of the tories destroying the economic base of the UK who said the following:
"All workplaces should offer places for mums to breastfeed or express milk if they need it".
So this joker wants Mothers to bring their new born babies into the workplace and expect the employer to provide a fridge exclusively for the use of the Mother to store her milk and no doubt this will include creche facilities, a nursemaid, social worker and other essential services.
This so called government should be lined up and their eyes taped open as in the film A clockwork orange and be forced to watch re-runs of black and white documentaries about Stalin over and over and over again.
Vote conservative and you vote in a bunch of complete clowns. - philip,whatever next.massuers for the workplace stresses.
- That wouldn't suprise me Brian. Far from giving power to the people it seems that this government, headed by fake Tory call me Dave, is intent on creating yet a bigger state. There really is no difference between labour and the conservatives - in fact I'd go as far to say that cameron is intent on making the state more powerful than it ever was in this country's history.
According to the leaked cables via Wikileaks even Saint Obama thought little of Cameron. Now that is saying something is it not?
David Cameron is dangerously deluded in many of his beliefs. He was elected leader by the sheeple in the tory ranks following one very clever speech.
He has surrounded his leadership with nothing more than a group of yes people. - Actually Brian one of my clients is a (legitimate!) masseusse who has for some years been contracted in to some businesses to provide stress relief, usually using indian head massage but also reflexology.
Philip - we do not have a Tory Government, it is a coalition. The State is nevertheless being rightly pruned back. maybe not enough for my taste but it is still a step in the right direction. - barry whatever next.
- barrw
you can spout your biased rubbish but in the real world whats happening is the labour party (just like cameron before them) are rebuilding the party.
the tories were unelectable for 13 years and labour unelectable for a number of years before that
without doubt all 3 main parties took a bashing at the last general election and the labour part rightly looking to re engage the public.
people are losing faith in cameron
the lib dems lost support some time ago
looking good
come on you reds lol - Brian - workplace stress is a serious problems for the efficient running of a business. It is a small cost to help battle that stress.
- Yes Keef is right, we can see the Labour Party are now in a period of rebuilding. Okay Cameron had a joke at the 'blank sheet of paper' idea as BarryW mentions above, and fair enough I guess. But the blank sheet of paper is needed. New Labour is over, it was great in its day and had an exceptional run winning Tony Blair and the Labour Party three elections on the trott. Something unheard of. But the idea got tired. Hence the need for something new...enter stage left Millibands blank sheet.
The only thing that worries me about Labour currently is how they are presenting themselves on televison. Their prime spokesperson in the past week has been Angela Eagle. Now clearly here we have someone with no charismatic appeal. Its very important to wheel out the telegenic if you want people to engage with your message. Dear ol Angela has all the tonal range of the talking clock. Sleep inducing. The message wont get out that way.
- Disagree with you there PaulB. The thing you should be worried about is not Angela Eagle but Ed Milliband.
The man is incapable of stringing two sentences together and talks in such a way that you are left feeling worried for the man's sanity. A dreamer! That wonky smile he has distracts from any gravitas of which he possess's absolutely zero.
I sometimes find it hard to understand the words he says let alone the crazy marxist ideas he spouts.
Anyhow, let's get this straight - He and his clan are conducting a deep policy review in order that they might, one day, get re-elected.
So they have no policies merely ideas but the important thing, the most important thing, is to win the next election?
Why not just start up a new political party and have done with it?
We could call it, erm, the We don't have a clue but elect us anyway party.
How about the We have a hound dog in our midst but go for it and abandon all hope party.
Strange but very funny days indeed. - Incidentally, to an extent, I go along with David Cameron's big society idea. It chimes well with his latest statements on how important it is to save the planet which is why I ask you all to go out and check on your older neighbours to see that they are ok in this cold spell. Don't forget to tell them to turn down their thermostats a couple of degrees. Not only is this saving them money but it will also help to heal the planet.
- not forgetting the smaller government philip, they are reaching the final stages of a plan to order shops to sell alcohol at a minimum price.
the last country that did this was the old soviet union. - Yes Howard and blank cigarette packets, no advertising of fags in shops, "reward points" for children who walk to school is just the start. First eco-fascism and now health fascism.
According to conservative tractor statistics smoking and drinking is killing half our population every six weeks or something like that - that's the thing with dodgy data you can manipulate it to suit any need required.
These people are not proper politicans. They are just bureaucrats like in the old Soviet days answerable to the central commitee at Tory HQ.
The thing is that really think that they are doing us all a favour by bringing these measures forward. Twenty or thirty years ago they would have been laughed out of their local party headquarters for holding such extreme views on health and how to deal with any health problems such as they are but we live in different times now perhaps more suited to a dark period between the two world wars. There's more of this stuff in store for us just wait and see. - philip,it seems to becoming a comminist state this country.
- Fear not Brian it takes a certain amount of brains in order to turn a society into a communist one.
So for example cutting the tax on weak alcholic drinks (2.8% or less) is expected to help cut consumption and therefore make us healthier. I think the last time I heard of a drink this low in alcohol was in Tom Brown's schooldays when the boys used to drink what was called small beer.
They also will raise tax on drinks with an alcohol content of 7.5% or over.
Words fail me but not quite but are unrepeatable on this forum.
One other thing that made me laugh today was the reported wikileak which showed that Gordon Brown pleaded with St. Obamy for the jail term given to Gary Mckinnon to be served in the UK which was rejected out of hand.
Duhhhhh! Who was it who signed the one sided extradition treaty?
Made me laugh but this little fact was missed (deliberately I suspect) by the BBC.
Oh my God one more thing. The Duke of York has gone up in my estimation from one of being a golf club swinging helicopter travelling freeloader at public expense to one of much respect. After all it's he and people like him who are doing their best to sell Britain abroard but again this little known fact has been deliberately ignored by the BBC, the Guardian and suprisingly by the Mail and other women's papers. - philip,just wondering how much they would get for selling the concervative party.
- You know it has occured to me that politicians rely too much on the "experts" or at least those experts who have the loudest voice or are first to lobby them first.
Take any issue. Nine times out of ten politicians get things wrong.
If I told Dave Cam that millions of pounds could be saved every year by clamping down on companies who tell householders that they have rising damp and insist that they undertake costly measures (normally drilling holes and injecting with silicon) which are absolutely useless I have no doubt that he would think me very odd and dismiss me out of hand.
However the case is that in 99% of cases of "rising damp" carrying out this treatment is totally useless but the recieved wisdom is that spending thousands of pounds doing this is necessary and the right thing to do.
So it is with other aspects of current Conservative thinking.
Anyone who thinks that Europe is draining the lifeblood of the UK is a swivelly eyed looney.
Anyone who doesn't believe in the climate change myth is deluded and in the pay of big oil.
Anyone who thinks that proposals to deal with the secondary inhalation myth is working for some big tobacco outfit.
Etc. etc.
You see where I'm coming from don't you?
It seems to me that there should indeed be a policy review, such as the labour party are undertaking so that the current recieved wisdom can be challenged and perhaps a different direction can be taken because as it stands this country seems to be going round and round in a big circle. - barryw,mervin king thinks the same way,recons osbourne/cameron are not experinced enough to run the country in genrael.acording to wikileacks document.
- Not quite Brian - no surprises here. I would expect that all Bank of England chairmen and senior Civil Servants would have exactly the same concerns pre-election for every potential government change.
This was about pre-election and not now as well. - what caught my eye this morning was the foreign secretary's reaction to the bluff and counter bluff 2 years ago between the reds and the blues on whether to call an election.
seems that if one had been called then we would still have gordon and alistair at the helm. - Nowadays there is very little to distinguish the FT with the Morning star or Socialist worker.
By the way if Big Dave was so worried about the state of the planet I have two questions for him:
1. Why is he not attending the Summit in Cancun?
2. Why did he fly to Zurich the other day in an attempt to increase the chances that GB might hold the world cup finals in 2018, then fly back for PMQ's and then speed off after PMQ's to fly back to Zurich? Is this not rank hypocrisy? Is this a case of our betters allowing themselves to fly and leave the proles to sit back and shiver? - Yes despite some adverse publicity in recent times with regard to dodgy scientific figures on global warming, which somehow shot the green fox to an extent, the issue still seems to be very much on the agenda and very high up the list of 'things to do' on both sides of the House.
Also both sides of the House are also keen on Mr Cameron to go and win this football world cup for us here in the UK. The nation will benefit as a whole from this and it would be a surly politico indeed who didnt support his efforts in Zurich...so for once we have an outbreak of relative political peace across all parties...for now, but whatever you do dont mention student fees. - just on the world cup bid i do hope that should england get the result the result they wanted, once the FIFA scandal is sorted
that england does benefit, as its costing a fortune to be the bid together, then theres cost of making it happen
k - I can think of nothing worse than Britain winning the bid. It is a complete waste of money and will, contrary to recieved wisdom, cost the country dear but such is the hype surrounding the football business (oh sorry I meant to say sport) the sheeple will dance for joy if indeed we have the dubious honour of hosting this event.
Fifa will do very well out of it of course. It will do nothing for souvenier makers over here (much the same as the pharmagames 2012) which will mostly be made overseas. Security costs will be massive and getting anywhere will be a month of frustration making this consequences of this current cold snap seem like a breeze.
But Cameron is willing to pi waste our money up the wall even though he promises to make drastic cutbacks. What a scallywag eh?
He's willing to destroy the educational and employment chances of a generation so that couch potatoes can watch England yet again embarrass themselves on the world stage.
Let's not forget, also, he is willing to completely and utterly destroy the manufacturing base as well as any other industry (besides green) we have in this country for God knows what reason 'cept his gullabilty.
Priceless. What a plonker. He makes John Prescott look intellectual.
Go Russia, go. - Philip - I hate the game and will not watch a moment of the boring football even if England get into the final, but you are wrong, wrong and wrong again on the football bid. And most else of the very extreme views you express - I though I was a cumudgeonly right wing sceptic but you take the biscuit.
See the thread in the Members Club. I wont repeat the arguments again. - I've just read this in today's Telegraph report about the football match between Birmingham and some other team whose name escapes me at this time.
"Hundreds of fans poured on to the pitch at St Andrew's following Birmingham's2-1 win over their fierce rivals, with flares being thrown into the away end and chairs apparently ripped up and thrown back towards the pitch."
Now I know football violence is back in vogue but it's really going too far that they have once again adopted the fashion of the seventies by choosing to wear bell bottomed trousers again.
Something must be done!
- philip,thats disgracefull where were the fashion police.
- that post from philip reminds me of the old joke going around when slade were planning a comeback tour.
they visit a shop that flogs 70's couture, noddy holder orders a pair of flares, a tank top, big collared shirt and a pair of stack heeled shoes.
think birmingham accent here.
noddy to assistant "what have i forgotten"?
the reply came back "kipper tie sir"?
great mate, milk and two sugars please. - very good howard.lol
- Blimey, you call me a right wing extremist.
- Some interesting stuff there BarryW. One time in my days as a joint employer in a small business, the cost of having staff over and above the wage was always something that concerned us. But we had the business for many years through governments of every hue, and the costs were still high...no matter what the political persuasion, costs remained high. Gosh Im going back, I even remember the YTS scheme which we utilised...anyone remember that?
But some good proposals there but of course only if they are workable and sustainable. I myself would not know if all this is do-able. But beware of any reference to a 'tiger economy'.. look what happened to the 'Celtic tiger' !!? - The so called 'Celtic Tiger' was built on the sand of EU subsidy and high government spending PaulB. The low Corporation tax rate did help bring employers and employment in as well but the benefits were offset by the other.
What I am suggesting is a very different model. Its the one that has worked for Hong Kong and Singapore among others....
These are not high spending, high taxing economies and even China spend a lower proportion of GDP than the UK as public spending.
- i have read through this a few times, trying to see the catch.
on the face of it seems a good idea, benefits both employer and employee and creates a certain amount of new jobs.
i agree that national insurance is now outdated and there should just be the one deduction, the n.i. contributions were never ring fenced anyway.
would be interesting to read an alternative view to the proposal. - The best thing about it Howard - if you follow throught he logic, is simplicity. Simple low taxes have less scope for being dodged and there is less incentive to do so.
- I've been thinking about your proposals and I can't think of any disadvantages. I suspect there is a good (well not good per se but one which is spun to seem reasonable) reason to not put this type of thing in place but remember who we are dealing with - government who tax the very air we breathe.
Sorry but I suspect this idea will be cast to the four winds however sensible it is. - I see Earache Pickles is bleating on again but this time not about his waistline but about how he would like to see planning regulations abolished in favour of localism, big society, power to the people blah blah blah zzzzzzzzzz has anyone ordered me pie yet from the canteen I'm 24 stone now do you know that did I tell you what prank I pulled on William Hague............
And this guy is a minister of state?
Earache Pickles the tories answer to John Prescott. - barry
you are deflecting attention away from the new government's inaction on the issue.
your figures show 183,000 non-eu migrants in 2009, what is the figure for eu migrants?
the government are cutting the numbers of the former but are doing nothing about the latter.
moving on one, at present companies are employing agencies from overseas to recruit staff at dirt cheap rates, thus the posts are not advertised to british workers.
are there plans to stop this abuse? - Howard
ww.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/miga1110.pdf - you will need to copy and paste the link and add an extra w at the front. This box wont let me post weblinks.
To quote ''About two-thirds (303,000) of these non-British immigrants were from non-EU countries, almost unchanged from levels seen in 2008.''
Another quote this time from migration watch: "The latest figures for net immigration (estimates for 2009) show 43,000 net migrants from the EU compared to 226,000 net non-British migrants – just under 20%."
There are different definitions between EU and EU Economic Area definitions that means direct comparison between different sets of figures is difficult. That said the information is consistent in showing non-EU immigration is far higher than from the EU.
Howard - you know well that nothing can be done about the smaller numbers of EU migrants. Labour had forgone an opportunity to restrict Eastern Europeans when they had a chance. - Plus the buggers are diseased?
ww.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5hYt8XUoc1KcdgpohFjUSpudjn4oQ?docId=N0015871291738260664A
Again. Add the w.
- Remember you are dealing with a government who supports the climate change act and the equalities bill. Nothing to see here, move on please.
- philip
rather ironically chris huhne is being flown back from a climate change conference thousands of miles away tomorrow so that he can vote with green dave in the commons, then flown back again afterwards.
i am not sure what a carbon footprint is but it must mean that dave and chris each have one similar to the yeti. - Indeed Howard though I've just read that his presence in Cancun is sooooo important to the world that following much begging from various carbon zombie pressure groups he will in fact remain at the summit. Bloody shame he can't stay there forever.
Make a note to read the latest report put out by our own climate change commitee. If anyone thought I was obsessed with the subject then they might be slightly more sympathetic to this ol' hobby horse.
In order words if what they recommend is carried through then it really is the end of whatever economy we have and your energy bills will skyrocket. - Not to labour the point but I suspect these demonstrations over student tuition fees might well not have taken place if the government had decided to not vote with labour and pass the climate change act.I don't have figures to hand to show how much it costs to subsidise students at this time but when you consider the act passed in 2008 will cost us all, at an absolute minimum, £20 billion per year for the next couple of decades something tells me that stupidity has won over intelligence on this matter.
- barry
traditional education, notably the three "r.s" was failing long before tony blair stuck his oar in.
about 20 years before in fact, the c.b.i. and others have been complaining for many years about graduates that could not put an application together to secure employment.
the problem has always been that politicians love to meddle with it instead of leaving it to head teachers, governors, teachers and others. - Howard - the point is that £billions have been spent. What has happened, it has produced no results, Labour have been pulling the wool over everyone's eyes by dumbing down exams to pretend there is progress.
It is clear that decline has accellerated under Labour in spite of the extra £billions spent, it is a disgrace. - so you say barry.
- It is fact Brian what has been spent and you have the OECD report to show that it has all been down the drain. So no, its not me saying.
If that is the strength of your argument - Labour, guilty as charged - Barry you are right. At the heart of this crisis are labour's previous political tinkerings with the future life chances of the young and to bring us up to date their cynical exploitation of events as they have been unfolding on our streets. It's no wonder they lost the last election, although that was for other reasons, but to sit there and whip their automaton members of parliament to oppose sensible measures knowing that heads would be smashed and buildings damaged is unforgivable.
- if you say so barry,of course it was labours fault acording to everythings labours fault evan when the torys cock it up.
- OH WELL brian suppose it is a tory blog
full of usual biased information
what can we expect - I think it is a lot of old phooey to say more and more people turn up for interviews not being able to read and write. I think its one of those urban myths. One guy said it on a programme somewhere sometime and everyone of a certain political persuasion has repeated it since.
...but wont be repeating it several years hence, because it wont suit.
There were a couple of education experts on R4 this morning about 10 mins to 8am...one a professor from Cambridge, some of you may have heard it..and the point was made that since Labour came to power the university net has reached into the lower social echelons. This never ever happened before, it was always the realm of the upper middle class to go to university, then the middle class. But since these more enlightened social Labour years everybody right down the social scale had a chance to attend proper realistic courses.
Can anyone say there is anything wrong with that? - yes
paulb
the tories will, they want to keep you in the dark - kieth,are we mushrooms then,kept in the dark and fed buuls**t.
- If you tune into the BBC, Brian, then you are perfectly correct. Others, however, like to learn about the world from other sources.
- thought of you earlier philip after seeing a report from the climate change conference.
they promised to save the rain forests, cut down on greenhouse gas emmissions and other worthy things like being nice to dolphins etc.
the only problem being that none of it is legally binding and no mention was made about where the money would come from and go to.
a figure of 60 billion used oncers was bandied about.
on the plus side the delegates all had great sun tans. - I feel qualified to offer an opinion on this as someone who taught university students for 35 years until recently - there is no doubt there has been a lowering of standards at A level, this not just a subjective assessment but borne out by the increasing number of students who we had to put through a remedial maths course and give tuition on how to write a legible answer in their first term.
And saying people from lower social echelons have only had a chance of a university education since Labour came to power is just plain wrong - that was what grammar schools did so well. Sorry to use that swear word in front of you socialists (where's the smileys when you need one!), I spent my school days in the north before returning to Dover, lived in a 2 up 2 down terrace with one sink, a coal fire and an outside toilet shared with the house next door but still went to grammar and did A levels though chose not to go to uni but many of my friends from a similar situation did.
The statistics show more people are getting a university education because Labour shifted the goalposts and classified many courses as degree courses that previously weren't and don't need to be. - had to scroll down to find what you were referring to ray, best to refer to who posted so that people viewing know what you are talking about.
notice that you are using the famous python sketch to illustrate your point. - brian
im afraid i can't answer for others - Ray, it's not only the socialists you would be offending by using the words grammar school. Although he has back peddled furiously once the backbenchers voiced their disapproval of his hatred for grammars, we all know he still harbours a grudge against them.
It's ridiculous really as I'm sure you know but defies logic. You are also correct when you talk about falling standards. A close family member used to be head of year up north and feels the same and I know many teachers who feel exactly the same.
Thrice right when you talk about what used to be considered to be vocational courses now converted to degree. Nursing springs to mind. I know many nurses (not in that way I hasten to add) and those of a certain age express their dismay at standards of nursing training.
Howard, I like the punchline about the delegate's tans. Made me laugh again. Good line.
Two things strike me about Chris huhne regarding his input. He made a pleading speech begging for something to be done and in doing so made a complete fool of himself in terms of scientific fact but talking to carbon zombies in this setting proves that you can convince them of anything.
Some joker played a prank on some of those attending by getting them to sign a petition to ban dihydrogen monoxide as it poses a serious risk to the health of humans and the planet. Of course they signed up without question and why shouldn't they after all they are not in possession of any power of reason and sum up the gullibilty of those who believe in man-made climate change. - I should mention the "he" I refer to in terms of grammar schools is David Cameron.
- Me again. Sorry to intrude but we are discussing education so I thought it prudent to point out that £2.9 billion will be saved in the cutting of tutition fees by the year 2014. By great coincidence the same government spending review has ringfenced £ 2.9 billion to aid third world countries fight dangerous and terrifying man-made climate change so that they might install windmills and solar panels and provide their leaders with brand new Mercedes and swimming pools and jacuzies and buy their wives and mistresses diamond rings.
So David Cameron puts paying for corruption on a vast, global scale before the needs of the next generation of our young?
I did alude to this earlier in a post but had no idea the skewed, idealogical madness extended to such an extent.
I'm changing my mind you know. I can quite understand why they young feel forced to demonstrate the way they do faced with such utter contempt by those who are supposed to have their best interests at heart. - Philip (I'm learning, Howard!), thanks for mentioning teachers, I know many are committed but frustrated at the way they have been hamstrung by regulations and targets for many years now - and I think it started as I was finishing school nearly 50 years ago so I'm not making a point about any party.
re global warming I won't say too much as I'm on pills for blood pressure - it has happened before, will happen again until global cooling takes back over, and will come back again etc etc until the sun expands and everything fries. It's not worth spending a penny on it. - ray
i bang on about education till everybody gets bored, it is a political football.
you just know that when a new goverment gets in they will undo the system, set new guidelines leaving the teaching profession with ever more changes, usually more paperwork, leaving less time for teaching.
the losers of course are the pupils. - I couldn't agree more with you Ray and you Howard. Regarding education you are right Howard the losers are the pupils and therefore us. It's very depressing really. I have no answer because politicians will continue to play politics with people's lives and not give a jot as to the consequences. We are the fools who vote for them which is why I have vowed never to vote for either of the three mainstream parties ever again. It's not that there is no difference between them but it seems that nowadays each party is run by students.
In terms of global warming Ray, believe me I do sympathise. I have managed to build a reputation on this forum which makes me appear somewhat odd to some. I care not. In my opinion most of what is discussed in the theatre of public discourse today accounts for nothing now that major environmental issues have taken the lead in the thinking of political thinking by all three parties. The implications for such muddled "thinking" is too horrible to imagine although most people remain oblivious to the impact it will have on their lives in terms of how much tax they pay, their jobs, the greater economic outlook for the UK, restrictions on the things they do day to day, their pension, their energy security, their energy bills, food bills, indirect taxation oh God the list is long.
Just a little earlier I read in today's Telegraph online this little piece which has managed to turn me to raid the drinks cupboard much earlier than I usually do.
Don't forget to add the w at the beginning of the link.
ww.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/energy/8197613/Coals-future-is-burning-hot-just-not-in-Britain.html
It's just a small example of the stupidity of the current administration and why they are not fit to run our country. - bali is a popular holiday spot for brits/ameicans plus other western countrys,thats what they done.
- barry
sweden are not neutral, they have 500 troops in afghanistan.
mr bin liner once said they sweden was safe from attack because they had no troops in an islamic country. doesn't seem to be up to date on some matters. maybe he gets bad reception in his cave. - Barryw
security of our country(and others)as you say is important and we do need to deal with extremist's. they are not the true voice of islam, and do the cause no justice at all.
The guy with the hook hand(sorry don't know his name) when he was found to be inciting violence should have been deported.
if the laws are not in place to do so, then lets make sure they are put in place.
no right minded person has any time for these extremists - kieth,i think you will find his name is,lookatmyhandsa.
- Howard.
Sweden has never been a member of NATO, never been associated with US or British policy on Gaza or Israel. They were not part of the Iraq invasion forces either.
In Afghanistan, they are not in the front line combat role but are there performing primarily 'hearts and minds' humanitarian activities, buildingH orphanages and such like away from combat areas in the North.
Mind you, for the Islamist extremists western people conducting humanitarian activities is enough excuse to murder them. They would prefer Afghanis/Pakistanis etc to die from starvation than to accept aid from the West.
The Islamists have killed more muslims than westerners in their terrorist acts. - watch out barry viking long boats have been spotted inthe channel,rumor has it they are stopping for provisions and financial advise.
- We were warned by those such as Melanie Phillips where she refered to Londonistan. As she writes in today's Mail at the time she was villified for her views at dinner parties up and down Islington high street.
As an aside, did you know that Roy Castle was a cigar smoker?
Not many people know that. - Had to laugh at the sight of Philip Hammond, transport secretary, who was intervied on Skynews behind the wheel of a eco-buggy known as the leaf (more like the cabbage in my mind) and when asked whether or not he would buy one or keep his carbon spewing diesel Jag refused to commit himself. Classic, rather like those who encourage impressionable young men to blow themselves and others up but do not possess the bottle to do it themselves.
I find it hard to separate the difference between the two actions except that obviously Hammond is no terrorist. However they both share the same "do as I say, not as I do" devil may care attitude. - there is no more embarrassing a sight than a politician going for a photo opportunity like the one you mention philip.
i can remember when the "metro" was launched at british leyland and the then transport minister extolling the virtues of this wonderful little car and how everyone should buy one.
he then drove off in an aston martin. - there is no more embarrassing a sight than a politician going for a photo opportunity like the one you mention philip.
i can remember when the "metro" was launched at british leyland and the then transport minister extolling the virtues of this wonderful little car and how everyone should buy one.
he then drove off in an aston martin. - just a quickie on the disasters of photo opportunities
david cameron on his push bike, loads photos as soon as press gone he got back in a car.
do they think we are all stupid - my all time favourite was mrs thatcher(despite advice not to do so) wanted to show how she was in tune with rural people by posing with a cow.
that spawned some caption competitions!! - hague with the baseball cap what a disaster
who advised him to do that?
i like mr hague a prime minister at the wrong time
- I did enjoy Kinnock falling over his own feet in the surf.
Brown's photo op with that lady 'oop north during the election was also a good one!!!
Miliband with that banana too....
It is a pity, I have to agree, that politicians feel they have to pose but it is fun when the posing results in accidents.... - to true barryw tis a shame
but thats politics i suppose
- Would love to see the expression on the face of any government minister when coming face to face with this little chart. It would be bound to become a youtube hit.
Don't forget the missing w
ww.glebedigital.co.uk/blog/?p=1008 - oh deer joy,compering ukips farages rant at the eu parliment and john cleases sketch from faulty towers dont mention the germans one.
- I don't think Farage can possibly be accused of ranting at the eu parliament. On the contrary all he did was to highlight some of the, erm, shortcomings of that sordid organisation. They don't like it up 'em you know.
- nigel farage can be a bit glib, but i must admit i always thoroughly enjoy watching him stitching up senior politicians.
such a pity that the snow and ice stopped him turning up here last week. - got some more of the turning up at the weekend,fingers crossed.
- philip
use your own words lol(don't like it up em) lol - philip,is that why the rest of the chamber where wetting them selfs with laughter.
- I am already working on a new timetable to get our leader down to Dover again, this time I am hoping we can fit in a public meeting. Thank you. I would just like to add all the best to all who are standing tomorrow,lets hope the weather is kind and we get a good turnout from the public.
- barryw
im with you on first person to get the chop but i think it will caMERon will sack clarke
don't think #any lib dem ministers will be sacked or resign.
the new rift between tories/lib dems is the different ways the leadership is dealing with the tutitin fees voting.
lib dems able t continue within the govt no matter how they voted
but cameron promised his tories no one will get the safer tory seats under the new boundary changes if they abstained/voted against govt - There are rumours of stirrings on the Tory backbenches. Two things are coming to light, being voiced currently by Nadine Dorries who you might remember once asked Joe Public for sympathy over the MPs expense furore. She somehow seems to have catapulted herself forward as backbench spokesperson...whether thats official or not who can tell.
The first one is concern that the Tory leadership is too soft on Europe, this as a result of their coalition with the Libdems who are or were always pro EU.
The second concern is the bad image Ken Clarke is giving to the long held Tory flagship policy of being the toughest party on crime. The dont like this softening on the backbenches. Not good for the image, not good for the promises they made to their voters back in their constituencies.
So Ken Clarke may be the first out the door. His recent very soft approach to crime, and knife crime in particular where promises were made and not kept, has not gone down well with either the Conservative voter or the general voter. However Ken Clarke is very popular with the aforementioned Joe Public...he is pleasant and liked on programmes like Question Time and if they sack him it could herald a return to the hard to shake image of them being the nasty party.
He always wears brown shoes to much tut tutting, and worse still has been seen (as pictured above) to have holes in his souls..ohhh very bad...but it endeared him to the man and woman in the street, who often have holes in their own souls! - The whole point is that Clarke is out of touch with both the Party and the gneral public on both the EU and crime.
It is the coalition that has watered down EU policy, DC and the bulk of the Party are Eurosceptic to the core. - david davies has made himself the self elected leader of the back benches, complaining that the blue m.p.s. are whipped into every vote while the yellows are cossetted.
sounds like he is just trying to settle old scores with dave. - DD has a point. DC must spend more time on Party management and needs to ensure the right balance is struck.
- oh deep joy,rumberlings on the back benches.so a couple of backbenchers are stiring the pot good for them,i like a bit of decent makes atractive viewing.
- Don't get too excited Brian.
- Quite early on i predicted this cobbled together outfit wont last,
first we see the lib dems in total melt down
then we see the tories not knowing whether to be truthful in wanting to lurch to the right
lately we see D Davies ready to settle old scores.
whether you like k clarke or not he comes across well to the public for the tories to sack him would for them be a disaster
what we are seeing, is, as i predicted the slow melt down of this govt. - You are getting excited too then Keith but it is to no avail.
Interesting how you spin things, been reading up on a lot of Labour websites then I see...
No melt down, tensions yes, these are inevitable but do not expect them to become a big problem for a few years yet.
Ken Clarke - somewhat less popular now among the public given his soft approach to crime. His sacking would be a good move, he is past his prime. - i think keith is right on this one, ken is the acceptable face of the blues to a lot of people.
dave comes across well with the public, david davis goes down well with the party faithful.
in the unlikely event of the latter overthrowing dave in an internal coup it would be a disaster for the blues. - They remarked on the BBC programme Politics Today at how depressed and ravaged looking Nick Clegg looked on PMQ. It seems he is suffering severe stress over the recent awful situation on tuition fees. Have to admit I myself felt badly cheated by him on behalf of the kids, and did as much kicking as everyone else.
His health appears to be giving out due to this stress. His about face situation on a range of heavy promises has taken its toll. He may not last. - Cheated PaulB - so you voted Libdem and not Labour then?
The policy is based on Labour's Browne Report.... so perhaps not, but on the other hand Labour, like the Conservatives, did not promise not to raise tuition fees. As least they have made the system a lot fairer than it was before under Labour. - watched a bit of pmq, didn't see the deputy prime minister.
saw the knock about routines from dave and ed, somehow i was expecting something more substantial.
when i want to be enetertained by a comedian i just watch my richard digance videos. - Ah now BarryW you jumped the gun there..if you look back I say I felt cheated "on behalf of the kids". Both being in University they voted for the promises made by Nick Clegg, as did many. Shame they had such an unholy introduction to politics and voting, both voting for the first time.
Needless to say the Libdems wont be getting their vote next time round. - Since when was PMQ's meant to be substantial Howard? Particularly endof term just before Christmas, even politicians are allowed to relax a bit.
PaulB - It would be unusual for students to keep voting LibDem after Uni anyway, reality and real life tends to push them towards making proper voting decisions rather than to take a cop-out. After all, a cop-out was all voting LD ever was and it is a bit of a shock to LD supporters to suddenly find their vote meant something and those they voted for are for the first time have the responsibility of making tough decisions.... - barryw
i dont read labour web sites, the views i produce are my own i dont need to re produce stuff frm biased view points such as the
torygraph, mail, tory central office.
as i said and others agree, ken clark is far more in line with peoples thinking, and to me if cameron sacks clark the party will lurch to the right and make itself un electable.
it will be a mistake.
- i would be amazed if anyone read a political party website, hardly likely to be illuminating.
the best thing is to read different newspapers each day to get a general view of the world, then use your gut instinct to work out who is right on each issue. - howard
yep, but barryw's postings and even at times reproduction of torygraph or tory central office, he thinks differently. - Actually Keith I do not read the 'Torygraph' as you erroniously call it and neither do I read party briefings.
I post my own views as I am capable of expressing an opinion in writing that is backed up with substantiation. - speaking of the Telegraph, today's front page headline makes for interesting reading. It reports that green measures will put £500 extra on top of the average energy bill. I think this is a good thing. I mean someone has to do something about the climate and being English and what with our trashing of the environment over the centuries, colonisation, slavery, downright and ruthless imperial arrogance, isn't it about time that we put our hands in our pockets and did something positive for once?
Good. I'm not stopping there you know, oh no sir.
I shall be instructing my bank to increase my direct debit to include an extra three hundred pounds a year so that I might help to cover those who might not be in a position to afford the extra payments. The elderly, the poor, the feckless, Tory MP's, rioting students annoyed at extra tuition fees, shivering asylum seekers, blind black lesbians who oppose fox hunting, vicars on a low wage, Tory MP's intern assistants, anarchists, distopians, Stalinists, neo-fascists whichever country they reside in, radio 4 comedians in need of a joke that actually makes people laugh, flamboyant newly employed socialist spin doctors the whole lot!
If you are included in this list please don't thank me. No, I'm a modest man and not one for grand gestures or congratulation.
By the way the met office is warning of a rather cold snap with climate change flakes settling all over the UK over the next few days.
Don't forget to check up on any elderly neighbours and make sure they turn down their thermostat by at least two degrees.
We all have to do something you know, however small.
I'm sure Ken Clarke would approve. - I forgot to include all those passive smokers who might be beneficiaries of my modest gesture in trying to alleviate the higher charges included in our energy bills in order to change the weather. It has to be said however I'm still not convinced that passive smoking is indeed a threat to health. After all whenever the subject is raised people inevitably talk about Roy Castle who worked in smokey jazz dives making music and generally having a good time. The thing is though is that as far as I am aware he did indeed smoke.
Hmmn, further research is required. Perhaps there is a link between his demise and global warming.
I'll keep you all posted. - But smoking is a very nasty unpleasant habit and there is nothing worse than breathing someone elses waste fumes regardless of any health issues. But then, of course, it is damaging to your health breathing in that poison whether it is your own or someone elses...
More climate change ranting there Philip! - as I say you are as bad as the extremists on the other side of that fence...
- works both ways barry,extremists on both sides of the fence.
- Not only is it a nasty habit it does damage your health,and put s the cost of running the NHs even higher then it need be,and it is not avery nice way to die.And if you had seen somone cut up who was a smoker all his life and see the inside of him, and I have seen some of that when in the army,I think you would stop the same day.It was not nice.
- That is what I said Brian.
- vic/barryw
there are a lot of responsible smokers who dont smoke around you.
vic sadly the govt gets so much dosh from smokers its unlikely to change.
i know people who were heavy smokers who lived to a ripe old age and rarely ill - barry,no you are starting another anti smoking thread,enough said.
- No Brian - Philip did.
- Yes it was me who introduced the smoking issue only to highlight the extreme buffoonery surrounding the governments energy policy. If only you people realised how much you are being fleeced you would realise how inept politicians will end up only finishing off whatever economy we have in this country. Barry you describe my postings as rantings but you would only say that because you are not in full possession of the facts surrounding this crucial issue. I suspect you glean whatever you do know, like most, by tuning into the BBC. They have an agenda which skews what they let the audience hear so whatever they say is always, always one sided on this issue.
Meanwhile as business costs go up and therefore those costs are reflected by how much we pay extra for everything, your energy bills will increase by a factor of hundreds of pounds every year (£500 at least and bear in mind we pay extra hundreds of pounds already in green subsidies etc. in our bills) millions, yes millions who are described as being fuel poor will have to pay this extra money.
It is quite disgraceful really.
But of course if you feel happy to pay hundreds and hundreds extra in order feel free but it would be interesting if you could justify these extra costs to all. I think it's only fair. - ear philip dont mention smoking in front of barry it only starts him off.
- philip
you do blue barry a disservice to suggest that he listens or watches anything on auntie.
conservative blogs and the daily hate is his opium.
myself i like the independent and enjoy listening to the beeb and sky for my information.
must go have to watch the"jeremy kyle show" that i taped earlier. - Well using Auntie as an example of biased reportage on the issue can equally be applied to most of the media outlets.
We are experiencing what will turn out to be one of the coldest winters for many decades. People will really suffer there is no doubt about it. Elderly people will die, plain and simple. In winter times cold is responsible for many premature deaths but this year will be much worse. There is barely a peep from the government in this respect and others including planning for major disruption of the road and rail network, fuel supplies, food and other commodities. It's as if the crew have left the bridge. All we get is half hour reports from jolly weathermen sucking in their breath and gleefully telling us to take care. It's quite appalling.
I have not seen one minister stand up and at least give some inking of any emergency plans or warnings to the public.
However what I do see is some eco-minister rejoice in the fact that we will be expected to fork out £200 billion in order to pay windfarms, solar panels and carbon capture coal fired power stations.
None of those three have anything whatsoever to do with creating energy supplies vital to keep the country going.
All they do is represent a mad, bizarre and totally distorted sense of reality which the small clique in Parliament and medialand as well as those who profit from it all and those who actually hold mad beliefs hold dear.
I still have not heard any reasonable argument put forward which justifies Chris Huhne's announcement today regarding this subject.
All I get is, well nothing really.
This policy document will be the final nail in the coffin for the nation.
In the meantime think about this. It's very cold now and very dark and the wind is blowing and then it stops. Would you trust a wind turbine and a solar panel to help you keep the lights on? - Actually Howard, my news sources are a lot wider than you suggest.
- barry
agreed that the money pumped in has not got commensurate results.
however the report fails to point out shorter waiting lists and survival rates.
it simply points out the ratio between extra staff against treatment of patients. - Baz
I don't think you will get much disagreement with a debate on the .N.H.S.but the starting point should not be to scrap it, but how to improve it. - There is other evidence not itemised in the report Howard.
Keith - the point is that reform is just playing around the edges and is not enough... It needs scrapping and starting again... - baz(mate)
we won't agree on the scrapping bit
nor will we agree on privatising it
so lets see if there are some items we can agree on to retain it - Blimey Barry and you accuse me of ranting.
- A rant?
Blimey Philip - you just posted something with no reference to climate change or Chris Huhne. - barry,it was there fault in the first place.
- Yes but I also posted a question earlier in order that you might justify the pretend tory party's energy policy. Nothing so far so it seems the game is to put forward some madcap idea as an issue and then see the sparks fly with no reasoned debate.
- philip,to answer your question because barry wont,they havent got one.a policy that is.
- Bang on Barry the only solution they have to this terrible weather is to announce the building of windfarms, solar panels and tidal energy. Nothing about what we are experiencing now. Complacent? No surely some mistake?
I did hear today on the radio they convened a cobra meeting and they have done all they can in terms of contingencies and emergency measures. Yes it shows doesn't it?
Fools all of them. Absolutely useless.
Ahhh but don't worry they have a plan. We pay an extra £500 a year minimum extra (double that) in order to combat that dangerous, that evil, that devil gas we know as carbon dioxide.
In the meantime planes are stuck on runways, elderly people die in their own homes because they cannot afford to heat their front rooms, grit runs out because this is an "unusual event", business's are going to the wall because of the disruption, gas-oil used by at least a million rural dwellers is unaffordable and likely to be rationed.
But don't worry, chin up bruv, Gor blimey wot 'appended to the blitz spirit eh chum?
Their plan for the worst winter we have experienced for over a century? Do you know what it is?
Cancun was a success!
That's it folks. That's all there is.
David Cameron the leader of the green party. Move over Caroline Lucas big Dave is in town. - Good evening each and Barry.
It is evident that 'our' new coalition government has driven some to drink early in the season.
What utter drivel you write above Barry. It is the repeated efforts of the usual suspects over the last twenty years or so to nibble away at the NHS in order to line the pockets of the hangers on, oops I mean the share holders. There would certainly be far fewer share holders behind every nurse if your mad-cap idea of health insurance took hold.
It sure is time to stop fiddling with governance in all quarters.
BTW.
How are the Conservative Election plans going? It is never too early to get organised.
I can see the posters ...
"After the billions poured into the NHS the time is now right/ripe for privatisation"
It could then be known as part of the 'Private Insurance Service Sector'.
Or is that taking the...? - Tom - you are in denial like so many, lulled into a sense of false and unjustified worship of a failing system.
None of our continental friends would swap their health systems for ours... - barry,for once i agree with you but dont lrt it go to your head.there operating costs are much lower than the nhs and private hospitals.ie one knee op private chauser hosrital £7000 belgium private hospial bruges £3000,these priceses can be checked out.
- Barry I think you are right. I think Philip Hammond should take charge of this issue and put into place changes which will totally radicalise the health system from top to bottom.
Oh hang on a minute, just hold that thought for a while. - philip,is he any relation to the hamster from top gear.
- Well at least it can be said that Mcclusky is consistent in his views unlike what is described as the "Tory high command" who came out in favour of the liberal candidate in the Oldham east by election which I thought went against party rules but what do I know?
Speaking of which I wonder if the Tories might reconsider their opposition to the third runway at Heathrow now that Gaia's dandruff has settled upon the ground forcing passengers to sleep in cold terminal buildings if they're lucky. When you consider that the opposition in France and Germany to name two might well end up as the premiere international hub of air transport and therefore leave us again in the cold (pun intended) it might be wise to mull the issue over with a little more concentrated thought amongst those in "Tory high command". - barry
when you resort to tabloid cliches from the seventies like dinosaurs and intellectual pygmies it begs the question "why are you so worried".
your party holds all the cards, there is no need for anxiety.
or do you know something the rest of us don't? - I have nothing but contempt and disgust for the Unions Howard, they have been a menace to their members and the country as a whole throughout their history. Nothing more than that.
Philip - you do enjoy spinning right into the land of fantasy. Its a strange place you come from. - barry,you have such low esteem view of people who dont think in the same light as you.try and join the real world if you can and embrase it with open arms.
- Brian - its nothing to do with people not thinking the same as me. Its about the fools running the Unions and the destruction they wreak against the economy and their own members.
- barry if the cap fits wear it.
- barryw
im afraid the anti trade union legislation has already gone to far and i would hope that sensible talking would helpthe matter.
confrontation from either side will not help.
Ed was right to distance himself fromthe comments the unite union leader made, but would be wrong tosupport tory anti trade union legislation - just like to add that i would like to see some trade union leaders posting on here at the forum.should make intresting reading.
- Would they know how to turn on a computer, let alone use the keyboard I wonder...
- barry,in answer to your question the answer is yes,and probably know how to fix it as well.
- sensible post keith, we all benefit from good labour relations.
aggression and name calling usually ends up with industrial action taking place, this hurts everybody.
any doubts ask the french. - The Union curse these days is mainly restricted to the public sector. Businesses are largely free of their malign influence. Better labour relations can be achieved by dumping the Unions all together.
More legislation is certainly needed Keith.
Howard - I tell it as it is. - I have been in a union all my life ,and now alife member,The worker needs a union for back up. The boss have one but they call it a federation meaning in the Oxford Dictionary"Band together in league for some common object,and that is the same as a union.Barry if you had spend the years on the shop floor like myself and have seen what goes on and how some workers are treated even today you might just have a different view of things.I know that you will not agree with this post but it is a true one.
- I come from a long line of miners, the last were in Kent. My father always taught me to debate an issue to really understand all the issues so that I could form a reasoned opinion. He also made sure I stayed on at school so that I didn't have to become a miner.
Vic is right Unions are a good thing, they provide workers with a security net, that they might not have, from unreasonable and unfair employers. Giving advice and support to those at risk of unfair management practises.
Unfortunately those are not the Unions we see in the press. They are the ones that want to go against a fairly elected government by whatever unfair and unreasonable means they can muster. These are the unions that couldn't bully the Labour party into adopting their warped and harmful policies that would eventually bankrupt this country.
Perhaps they should move into the modern world and realise they are not elected to government and communism is dead. - I stand by my original post, we realy dont want to go down the road of anti trade union bashing like maggie did.
it helped no one.
So the way forward is to talk to each other, not bring in legisation to try to silence one side - couldn't agree more keith, constructive dialogue is what oils the wheels of industry.
i suppose it is a peacetime equivalent of churchill's statement, "jaw jaw, not war war. - Maggie's so called 'trade union bashing' brough to an end the Unions reign of intimidation and militancy. It was very successful.
Trouble is the Unions seem to want to go back to those days and the public and union members need to be protected from that.
I am convinced that we would all be far better off now if the Unions were never formed to curse our industrial relations. I suspect we would still have many of the industries they destroyed, modern and competing in the world profitably. We would have a more vibrante and diverse economy from which we would all be better off. I do not buy into the idea that unions are the only way to protect the so called 'workers', after all there is no real demand at all for greater union involvement in the private sector, it really is mostly restricted to the public sector these days. - Barryw
I thought you said you got out a lot, fromyour postings it shows otherwise.
Maggie caused problems for families and the industries themselves.
Although no great fan of mr scargill he was condemned at the time for saying how many pits the tories were to close, in fact he was not only found right but the tories closed the industry.
on the issue of trade unions, they are also active in the private sector.
what we dont want to return to is the begging for a job days
and trade unions have done a lot to helping many working people to stopus going back to those days.
clearly from comments you make barry your not only unhappy with people getting the minimum wage but would be happy to have a free flow where like before the minimum wage people were being paid £2 an hour or less.
what we cant do is forget there are many issues of concern out there and everyone has a role to play, and the trade unions are elected to protect jobs and fight for better working conditions for its members. and much much more
you will find many responsible unions working with employers every day of the week.
The last thing we want is more anti trade union legisation to unsettle the country even more
- Keith - you are brushing over the very real damage done by the Unions.
The many strikes driving industries to their knees.
The restrictive practices and job protectionism that prevented industries from modernising and competing, leading eventually to their demise.
They were nothing but a menace and Scargill was a fool on a polictical mission.
All of us gained from their taming but it was nevretheless too late to save a lot of our industry. - get me right baz
i never agreed with the ford disputes over 3 minute extra tea breaks and strikes that resulted
but those days have long gone,
and whilst unite union or bob crow look back on those days
they have first to convince there own memberships and this is a lot harder these days, the days of everyone out brothers has rightly long gone.
This newly elected unite guy is trying to make his mark.
of course there has to be a middle ground when theres disagreement, this is often the stumbling block for employers/unions
to put in more anti trade union legislation will do little to help the situation and will only increase union membership - barry
you are talking about stuff that happened 30 years ago, times have changed as you point out when people criticise the thatcher years. - Howard - that was purely a response to Keith's posting, he raised the issue of Mrs T.
You cannot get away though from the fact that our economic position is to a large extent a result of the malign influence of the Trade Unions over many decades. They destroyed much of our industrial base.
they clearly remain a malign influence now. - i doubt they have much influence nowadays.
why is it wrong that workers can receive union representation whilst business have the c.b.i, institute of directors and chambers of commerce.
doctors. lawyers, dentists, police persons etc all have their own union. - Different roles totally Howard - their influence is restricted to the public sector and they have little to do with businesses now thankfully. I do incidentally include the police reps as a union.
Dont mix of professional bodies with Unions though - different beasts completely. Likewise IoD/Chambers and CBI.
In fact the lack of Unions in the private sector demonstrates how worthless they are.
It is only the unions who have a track record of economic destruction. - And what About the banks Barry ,they done a very good job of economic destruction.The unions played no part in that,
- won't repeat myself
if we truely want to move forward then its by talking
ther trade unions thankfully still do in some areas still have influence and so that shows how out of touch baz is.
and theres lots of unions doing great work
anyway iv said me bit - barry,the unions got this country moving foward maggie on the other hand took us back to victorian times with her anti this anti that holier than know attitude.
- Barry the unions are a spent force nowadays in terms of the damage they can do to the economy. The danger to the economic health of the UK comes nowadays from the EU, environmentalists and the tory party as it now stands with a liberal left bias which is going to be hard to unshackle until the inevitable dirty bust up which will happen once the new intake and wiser heads say enough is enough. It ain't gonna be pretty but once the dust has settled ordinary folk will once again feel their vote is worth something.
Grandstanding industrial action is a thing of the past as most trades union members realise which side their bread is buttered and know how unpopular and inconvenient strike action is with the public. Yes there will continue to be strikes and marches especially when any cuts kick in being carried out in the main by public sector workers but will have limited value.
You say it's a strange place I come from, well it's the place which is in a position to see what lies ahead rather than relying on spin trickled down from Conservativehome or (ex) Iain Dale and others on the soft right. - Vic - the (rather, some) banks did what Gordon Brown urged them to do and he also changed the regulatory system to enable them to take risks
Remember, not all banks did not need bailing out, HSBC and Barclays - Lloyds only needed a bail-out because they did what Brown wanted and took over HBOS.
This, again is nothing anyway compared to the disaster created by the unions over decades.
Brian - nothing to say about the strikes and restrictive practices used by the Unions then and the need to deal with them. - couldn't agree more with philip on that one.
any attempt to raise the spectre of the 1970's union leaders is laughable. - barry,it was a figment of you inmageination that these strikes happend,closed shop what closed shop.
- Brian, Dover: you were a miner you should know how they ruined this country and you all stood by and let them do it.
- alan,piffle the miners didnt ruin the country goverment of the time did.
- DOES BRIAN HAVE MAGIC POWERS?
In alan's last post he indicates brian could have stopped the miners dispute??(didnt know he was a miner, i did it for a year not a job for me being underground)
I will let the likes of garyc reply on the miners who was involved at the time before i comment - If only the coal mines were open today the UK would be alot better off for agood fuel then we are.
- vic,you better have a word with the person who SHUT the pits in the first place.
- It has to be said that Labour has a dark history of closing coal mines alongside the tories. Post world war 2 well over 100 mines were closed some under labour and some under tory administrations. Obviously the reasons for these closures are varied including the fact that some were deemed to be uneconomic to carry on. So it's a mistake to blame the tories for all closures over the years. It has to be said, however, that as we all know the turmoil of the government versus the miners in the eighties was more political than anything else which is a great shame. We have hundreds of years worth of coal energy lying forlornly underneath our feet which now we are unable to use due to the fools who run our government and their masters in the EU. Environmental legislation has put paid to any notion of a viable coal industry in the future which is quite obscene really but let's face it as a nation dark economic clouds are forming increasingly helped by the slow suicidal mentality of those who are there to lead.
It's not the unions who will reek damage to this country it's the clowns in charge who really do not have a clue. - philip(Dover) I share your last line viewpoint
- i agree with all that philip has said there.
i would add that the railways and the education system have also suffered under both regimes.
the far right will point the finger at the trade unions and try to portray them as bogey men, this will not wash with the general public(most of whom are not union members), people know that they have no real power anymore, just chest beating rethoric for media consumption. - howard
I'm disagree with your comments, as being a trade union activist is not about power, but is about how to get the best for your membeship, together with working with employers to do the best for the industry.
now what we can do is go down barryws road do away with unions and go back to victorian days where you turned up at the work gate begging to be taken on for the day a paid a pittance, with no conditions of service.
or you have the unions working with employers to get the best for everyone.
this is a far better way forward - you may have misread my post keith.
- your last 2 lines state unions no longer have power which is what i refer to
- barryw,is that the light of your life.
- Normal service eh? You mean Cameron doing his best to bankrupt the country and give away yet more power to his masters in Europe?
There can't be much more to say on the matter surely. - philip,agree with you about camaron,but not our euromasters.its the warmongering yanks you have to worry about,along with which conflict will they drag us into next.
- Barry, here's a suggestion. Why not write a piece on why you think the coalition's energy plan is either:
a. Doomed to complete and utter failure and will lead to the demise of the UK as a place to attract overseas investment.
b. A sensible idea which will lead the world through a combination of low carbon and renewables and earn the UK billions.
c. Not lead to blackouts and the early demise of those who cannot afford to heat their homes.
d. Keep us even more heavily dependent on foreign suppliers of energy. - I think 2011 will see the fall of the Government and back to the polls for all of us.
- vic
although i share your view yours is a view of personal ambition
to join any council at any cost.
- Hmmn, alot of words there Barry but all rather meaningless really. Have you been to a conservative powerpoint show to cheer up the troops?
Here's a political forecast. Cameron will continue to make the wrong moves both politically and economically throughout 2011 and leave UK plc in an even worse state than labour ever could which is saying something. - philip
i have been reading up on the economic policies of dave and george and a good summing up is that both of their careers hang in the balance here.
if they have got the cuts right and the recovery continues then the private sector will mop up most of the sacked public sector workers. if they have cut too much too soon the economy could stall meaning unemployment of 2.7 million by this time next year.
my guess is that the p.m. and chancellor are sitting with their fingers crossed this new years eve.
the recieved wisdom is that the v.a.t. rise and reduced spending power of consumers will hit the small retailers causing many to close but will have no effect on the giants. - Prime minister Clegg will sort it all out Howard, don't worry it'll all be alright in the end.
- oh deep joy.
- You see part of the secret of success to a healthy economy is an educated workforce, government policies which encourage business to develop and a sensible energy policy where you make sure the hippies are banned from any role in creating important decisions. This is why Germany is such a good place for business to thrive and why the UK is turning into a third world banana republic. So while some argue about how coal is evil and nasty and dirty over here others take a more pragmatic approach to the use of coal.
Again take the Germans.
"(Reuters) Germany and other coal-mining nations secured an extension of coal subsidies until 2018 after a months long battle with environmentalists.
The European Commission, the EU’s executive, had proposed in July that the coal mining industry should only get four more years of state aid before subsidies are phased out in 2014, the sixth such extension of state aid since 1965.
But with thousands of jobs on the line, Germany led other coal-mining countries such as Spain in pushing hard to extend subsidies to 2018, to fit around Berlin’s own national laws."
So while Dave and Nick and Chris and all the tory sheeple MP's get their collective knickers in a twist about climate change and coal and all that silly stuff We are paying the Germans and Spanish to power their economies with coal.
That's right We are paying for it.
People are really, really silly are they not?
Still, as I say, fear not PM Clegg will save the day, somehow.
- You know I was so wrong about this present administration. Andrew Lansley has announced £50 healthy eating food vouchers for all to encourage healthy eating. What a great idea.
I'm hoping, however, that he might find it to extend this scheme to enable smokers such as myself to if not give up then smoke a little healthier.
As it stands I smoke rollups which I enjoy very much especially after breakfast accompanied by a huge mug of tea and a ritual check on my emails and favourte websites. I also enjoy tobacco at the end of the day with a couple of glasses of wine or whichever alcohol is lying around the house where once again I can catch up with emails, favourite blogs, websites, news and all sorts of stuff you see on the internet.
Now that the new year is in and it's resolution time perhaps he would see it for me and others such as myself to smoke a little healthier.
So if his department could supply some vouchers so that I might be able to purchase healthier cigarettes that were lower in tar and other substances which would otherwise hasten my inevitable demise such as a big box of silk cut or other such healthy options that would be great.
Who do I talk to?
Is there an internet bloke I can write to?
Any advice would be much appreciatied. - Lol! very amusing Phillip. My old dad used to smoke Woodbines. He used to laughingly call them 'coffin nails'. Dont know if you remember them ..very strong and unfiltered, but they dun for him in the end alas!
So dear old Mr Lansley, who I always imagine to be in short schoolboy trousers underneath the line of the camera when he is being interviewed, is clearly determined to make life healthier for us all. As are all the politicos in power. With such large price rises on everything in the immediate pipeline most of us wont be able to afford to smoke, drink, or fornicate so we will all be that much healthier by default!
Interest stuff from BarryW above but on this very tough first day back with the costs of everything rising through the roof..we wont want it to get any tougher for the moment. - just some quick comments on some of he headings
everyone believes we should get tougher on criminals its what you do whenyou get tough
prisons over full
if the tories get rid of kenneth clark as barryw suggests the party will lurch to the right, cameron doesnt want that as it will put the tories back into being unelectable.
the tories wont ever get outright control at any future election
so dream on baz
the human rights act isn't all bad, and we should look closely at it before disbanding it as it has also helped a lot of people.
although i understand defense spending, we are in a climate where we could all be blown up anyway.
with the likes of iran, north korea it's looking grim
how many countries could they wipe out at the push of a button
that said we have a big debt and the cost of all these bigger and better defense is costing billions and probably never be used.
i hope thats the case.
i dread to think how many countries could blow us all tommorow as they are all aimed at us
then theres all the american stuff on our soils facing other countries.
where will it all end - i think you are right about ken clarke there keith.
whilst very few agree with his policy of letting criminals getting away with a stern ticking off, he is the acceptable face of the party to many. - yes howard he is, and thats all that cameron will care about, staying in number 10.
the issue is, will the ultra right wing of the tory party put up with cameron for much longer when they want the party firmly to the right.
rumblings already started - Nothing new there Keith - all politicians want to stay in power no matter what. Take Gordoom Brown. He really messed up as chancellor and then as prime minister and yet had to be dragged kicking and screaming from the doorpost of number 10 bogies and all.
There is no "ultra right wing" in the tory party. It's a figment of the left's imagination and is only found in 1970's thrillers with gentlemen in Whitehall plotting the downfall of the nation through military means.
There is, however, a disturbing lefty liberal tendency which is far more worrying. This manifests itself in the party's current agenda and essentially neuters any real and substantial measures needed to take this country forward. - philip
i have often agreed with your views
but don't agree that the right wing is not festering within the tory party. - Fair enough Keith and I guess whether one is left, right or sitting on the fence (or no offence as some wags might call them) is in the eye of the beholder. It would be interesting to name some of these right wingers. I can certainly list those who qualify for liberal lefty in the tory party but there is not enough space on the page ho ho.
- philip
there is certainly a mixed bag in the coalition and dave is seen to be pandering to the leftish blues and all the yellows by the traditional right.
green policies and the human rights act spring to mind.
i am not up to speed on the new intake of blues but blue barry informed us all that most were anti european and generally in tune with the party faithful who are more tradiitionally right wing.
we saw that at conference when dave spoke about the big society, which went down as well as calling last orders at a mosque.
david davies is the right wing rabble rouser at present and seems to be rallying the troops(the new intake will do as they are told) against what he referred to as "the brokeback coalition". - Well if there does indeed exist a tory right wing I've seen no evidence of it so far.
There are various ways to view this. On the one hand there is no "right wing" or whatever you choose to call the tory tradionalists. Personally I consider the term perjorative rather like waving the Union flag is a sign of racist nationalism as percieved by lazy left thinking.
On the other hand is one where the tradionalists are biding their time till the right moment to strike comes up. Well what are they waiting for the second coming? Cameron's announcement that the UK will join the Euro? The UK to open all borders and join the Schengen agreement?
There have been times when they could have made a stand and perhaps their chance will come on the upcoming eu bill which by all accounts is set to produce a backlash from tory backbenchers and the ever opportunistic labour party. It will be interesting to see how this crucial vote pans out.
If the bill passes then it will demolish the myth of a tory right waiting in the wings for the opportunity to assert itself. On the other hand the whips are unable to contain the crush to the no lobby then indeed it might inspire some hope in tory tradionalists.
As an aside, it has to be said that if the tories were serious about the deficit and our national debt and all that they could do better than increasing the rate of VAT and instead concentrated on scrapping the climate change act which at a conservative estimate costs us £18 billion every year as opposed to the £12 billion they hope to raise by raising the VAT rate to 20%.
But that is like hoping for Prince Charles to reject homeopathic medicine and pop a couple of aspirin after the post Buck house shindig - it ain't gonna happen. - philip
just the same as theres not enough space to name all the rightwers - Watching big dave on the rollup, sorry rolling state news channel earlier today. He's doing a dress down Friday on a Tuesday or someone forgot to turn on the aircon with his white shirt minus jacket doing a question and silly answers session with some of the workforce at some factory. I think they make diggers or some iron levithan type vehicle in this particular plant but what made me laugh out loud was when someone raised the issue of the price escalator on petrol. The only ammunition available in the box was erm yeah sorry about that but it's reeeeeeally, reeeealllly good because I want to stop us using petrol and create a gweeeen economy. So why exactly isn't he closing this plant down? Are they not committing ecohaust on the planet on a scale unimaginable?
At least I thought it was Cameron, perhaps it was leggy or hoon. One can never really tell nowadays, can one? - cannot agree totally barry, i always fall victim to the petite ladies with a big smile, looks like 2 or 3 in your last picture.
- barryw
i disagree with a lot of what you say
not that this matters
the last picture has a lot of good lookers
but at the end of the day its what they do in politics that matters not-the sexist women stuff
no wonder women dont get involved - Ann Widdecombe
- You should chill out Keith, relax and drop all that po-faced pc stuff.
I did mention her Philip.... Howard, its all a matter of taste, your seems to be a bit suspect, mind you a soft focus and distance may have helped that sorry little group..... - In my opinion all of those mp's who voted for the climate change act are thieves pure and simple. It's costing us all £18 billion a year. What this particular member of parliament pales into complete insignificance compared to the damage and cost of this bill.
All this little affair does is make the proles and media types feel that they can sleep better in their beds at night thinking that the world has been put to rights by the locking up of this man.
In the meantime the thief in the night picks their pockets whilst they sleep. - I cannot understand myself why a man selected and elected to represent his fellow citizens in the mother of all parliaments would want to steal from those very same citizens who elected him. It is a terrific honour to be elected lets be clear.
This case is an outrage. This man was previously a university lecturer, a man of education, and stoops low enough to steal in this way. This was no expenses accident or mismanagement but a calculated effort to steal. Im sorry to say it but he deserves his sentence. Well done to BarryW for highlighting it above in the editorial. - He was not the only MP to fiddle his expenses,many were guilty of similar wrong doings from all sides of the house.Although I have no sympathy for him and others he,at least, pleaded guilty to the charges where others have blantantly lied and denied any false claims.
- We should remember there was and still are MPs from all partys doing this and geting away with it,so why put the blame on the head of just one of them,and the amount £18000.is a lot less than some of the others lets now see them in the dock to,but that will not happen will it? there is still a very big cover up going on.
- i think that the above was hung out to dry as a sop to us.
the rest are still carrying on, another loophole has been found and used by some. - And Barry what would you do to all the blues that were doing it,KNOW WHAT I MEAN!
- Gosh isn't it wonderful. As I said earlier we can all sleep well in our beds now that another master criminal has been put away. Phew, all our troubles are over. Hurrah! Rejoice! Praise be the good Lord.
On the other hand we are still left with the ruins that he and the rest of his cohorts have given us - ie. extremely bad laws.
Such as,
the smoking ban.
Which ironically,
has led to a drastic change in the drinking habits of the British where consumption of alcohol has actually increased to dangerous levels.
With the closure of many of our pubs due directly and indirectly to the smoking ban the British are drinking more but drinking at home and far more cheaply and probably smoking just as much if not more.
So well done I say, lock them all up and dance and sing on the streets once more.
Hurrah! Hurrah! - Vic - you are the only person to introduce party politics on this subject and you should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself, this is nothing to do with party at all.
Likewise the the petty and irrelivant comments from others, this man was caught and found guilty in a court of law, the only one so far. Maybe others will and if so they would deserve all they get. - I am not ashamed at all because it is true,and it was yourself that started the post in the first place,and it was because he was a red that you done it,would you have done it if it had been a blue MP in is a big NO to that,as I said it was done by MPS out of all partys and again alot more then the £18000 he got done for,again just one big cover up,And I do not take one word of my posting back,if you do not like to be shot at then get out of the firing line..The public will tell us both, which one is right you or me.
- Vic - only YOU introduced party politics on this issue and that is a fact.
I may be a partisan Tory, but unlike you, I do know when party politics are not relevant. Get a grip. - Barry you are the one talking rubbish,I am not talking about party politics ,I am on about the conduct of our MPS again nothing to do with politics ,as I said if this had happen to a blue you would not have put this post in the first place.
- Vic, you have made the only mention of any political party in this. You then make assumptions as to what I would or would not say to justify your comment. Like I say, get a grip, comment on what is actualy said and dont make your own assumptions because you get them wrong, full stop.
- You are on the back foot over this Barry,so just give up on it.
- Mr.Chaytor was wrong.It was stealing from the public purse but many many more did the same thing and far worse than Mr Chaytor.They also should be in the Dock and take the consequences of their actions.We paid for our own duck house,paid for tennis court,pool repairs(don`t have a moat)MP`s should have done the same and not expect the public to pay for them.All MP`s who stole from the public purse should be prosecuted even those who paid back only when they were found to have had their hands in the till.
- There you have it Barry now what do you say.I was right in what I said about it.
- On the contrary Vic.
Reg - it depends, those who did commit criminal act should be prosecuted, no doubt. Those who were exploiting the rules as allowed for by the authorities cannot be prosecuted, while they were morally wrong they did not break the law. The rules of coutrse were wrong as well. We cannot change the law retrospectively. Chaytor is found to have broken the law going further than others and he is rightly facing the consequences. - What you are saying Barry is not right and you know it,,tHIS man even owned up to what he done ,and that is alot more then some of the other MPs who have got away with it. Out of all the MPs that were cooking the books how come there is only one that got put in the dock over it? As I said mate your best bet is to pull away from this one,because you can not win.
- he is only falling in line with jeff archer and john aitkin who where both tory and got done for fraud etc so nothing new there then.
- Everyone knows when they have cheated.Ask Phil Hughes.
- This one is just for you Barry.
TAXPAYERS ALLIANCE BULLETIN-7TH jANUARY 2011 MPs expenses
Today David Chaytor,who pleaded guilty to stealing just over £20.000 in fapenses claims,was sentenced to 18 months in jail.We have been campaigning for greater transparency over MPs expenses since the TPA was founded,and have been attacking fraudulent or excessive claims since the scandal first broke.
In response to todays announcement,TPA Director Matthew Sinclair said"While it has been a long time coming,it is good to see that at least one MP is finally facing justice for stealing taxpayers money. It was an outrage that they were able to rip off taxpayers on such a scale,and other MPs also need to be punished for what went on,but now thatthe public can see that politicians are not above the law we can start to move on from this crisis. We now need a completely transparent expenses system and proper controls to ensure that this kind of crime against the pupblic that MPs are supposed to serve never happens again.
Thank you for your support for our campaign on this issue. We aren
Well Barry set and match to me, you must be geting old mate time to give up your blog and hand over to a younger man. Just to add to the above the Dover and Deal Branch of UKIP do give our support to the Tapayers Alliance. - What on earth are you babbling on about Victor?
I am fully in support of what the Taxpayers Alliance have said, they are 100% right.
Unlike you they are not trying it on as a party political issue. - I wish to protest against inciting inhumane behaviour in prisons between inmates. It is illegal!
- Nor am I just like you a taxpayer and it was our cash that they took.
- Barry I completely agree with you on this subject regarding the banking sector which is why Cameron is totally wrong to demand that those in charge and those who earn the banks billions and therefore UK plc cut their bonuses.
In a stroke Cameron is in danger of causing the exodus of this vital sector to our economy and he must be persuaded to change his tune.
He also has to change his tune on the crucial vote tomorrow where clause 18 of the European union bill is being decided.
At stake is our long term ability, such as it is, to govern ourselves.
I know it's being spun that it's a good bill and will protect us from any more ceding power to the egregious powers from Brussels but the complete reversal is the case.
If the bill is passed intact as the government wants it will expose the conservative party as a paper tiger in terms of our relationship with Europe and show exactly how eurosceptic Cameron and Hague really are.
By the passing of the bill you may as well kiss the UK banking sector goodbye as we will lose what power we have left to enable us to make the most of the financial sector. - Aha!
- BAZ;
There is nowt pc about putting women down, but realise you still have to get into this real world, you probably never will.
nothing pc.
on the question of the MP i think vic was correct had this not been a labour MP it would never have reached the foum pages.
like others it was correct to find this person guilty, and even agree with barryw that others have no morals and have abused the system but been able to because the house has made it legal in the first place !!!!!!!
Some time ago when MP's got caught out i did say a lot would not get done in the courts because the house made it legal to rip us all off.
it's not even at times the MP 's fault it's the system.
so until the system is changed big time to stop these abuses
it will go on.
some will go to far and get caught, but the majority will stay within the rip off rules and legally rip us oiff.
- keith -
1/ You too are re-interpreting what I said into something you wish I said or think erroniously I would have or have not said.
2/ The previous blog was not specifically about women, though I chose only to put up pictures of ladies - much more decorative (well some were)!!!
3/ The expenses system has changed, though you suggest from your wording that it has not, though is due for more change (though perhaps they still have not got it quite right)
- barryw
yep there has been changes, very little to stop the present abuses,
and im sure any further reforms will be welcome.
politicians at every level need to re engage with the public as the public in general has lost faith in politics
this wont come easy for many, and watching things unfold i don't think much will change.
so turn outs will continue the downward trend.
public will continue to distrust politicians. - they allso have slective hearing and tunnel vision.
- Keith
Please expand
What 'present abuses' specifically? (as opposed to what was revealed under the old system pre-election)
Seeing that expenses are now being published on the web it would be easy for you to quantify that statement.
Brian -
statements such as you just made can be made anytime about anyone without necessarily any real justification. Try finding something more pertinent to say or expand and explain what you have said. - i think keith was referring to the latest loophole regarding claimimg rent.
i read about it a few weeks back but cannot remember the details of how it works.
will try to track it down. - ok barry here is inpertanat.they are blind deaf morons unfit for purpose.
- How inane and pathetic Brian. If you cant say anything intelligent on serious topics that add to the discussion then please say nothing.
- Oh I don't know I think Brian makes a point. I mean how else would you describe Oliver leftwings, sorry Letwin's latest crazy move to change the eating habits of the UK. It borders on the surreal. No, trash that, it borders on the fascistic. It's mad. Mad I tell you. Bonkers!
But there again nothing suprises me anymore where it concerns the half baked plans they have in store for us all. - If one makes a comparison between the 'holy bonuses' of the top bankers at a rate of millions of pounds a year each, and the miserable few thousands that an MP might claim in one year on extra expenses, I tend to wonder if the world for some is not upside down.
- barry,if you cant see my point then you are blind to the fact,if you dont want to listen then you are deaf to the fact.life gos on outside of politics.
- i don't doubt the statistics above. maybe we will all benefit on the medium term, but the fact remains that the general public are being told that "we are all in it together", whilst some banking coves are getting telephone number type salaries and bonuses.
a bad day for dave and nick after their calls for restraint on the payouts went unheeded. the blue press have made it clear that the coalition are left with egg on their face. - Dave tends to pick his battles and fight issues without engaging his brain. Tonight we will all see exactly how eurosceptic his really is with the forthcoming vote on the eu bill. I suspect he will get his way and once again we will be denied forever any say in all things european.
And who was it who said that Dave was to stand up for the UK against the euro mafia? - Barry, last year 3.5 billion pounds were gathered in through a special tax on bankers' bonuses. Labour want a repetition of this for the present year, by extending the special tax on such bonuses.
The high-earning bankers still remain multi millionaires, though, even with a special tax on their bonuses!
Not many people in Dover will support you on the issue of 'hands off the bankers' bonuses'! - If they want a successful banking sector and for the government to get back its bail-out cash they should support me.
Remember - as I pointed out, two of the big four did not need bailing out by the government and therefore the government should stay out of their remuneration decisions anyway. As for the other two, if you want monkeys to run them, punish the directors, overtax them, disincentivise them and let them go off to other banks where they will earn megga bucks.
For the two nationalised banks to succeed they need skilled management, you wont get that if you pay them less that the going rate.
remember - its a global economy and good talent has a price. - This bankers issue is a proxy class war and only breeds envy and does us all no good. The money connected with bonuses is, in the grand scheme of things, pitifully small.
Up to 10% of our national income is derived from the financial sector. Once one firm decides enough is enough then like a hole in the dyke others will follow until our reputation is shot. Mind you the governments handing control of our financial sector to Europe is doing more damage than stopping bankers bonuses ever could.
Long term the future of London as a world financial hub is knackered just as the future of London as an international air transport hub is also thanks to Cameron's refusal to support the third runway at Heathrow all for the sake of, erm, ha ha, chortle, erm, saving the planet.
Don't forget to keep an eye out for the vote on the eu bill to see where the conservatives really stand when it says it will stand up against any more power grabbed from Brussels. - barry
you have always attacked the reds for interference in businesses.
dave has done exactly that by trying to put pressure on banks and telling them what they should pay their staff. - That is what I am saying Howard- governments should keep their noses out of businesses.
- philip
the money may seem pitifully small to you, the rest of us see it as positively massive and beyond our wildest dreams.
maybe you have not looked at the wider picture? - Somehow Barry, I think that you have turned upside down a fact: that many banks in Britain, Europe, and also in the Far East of Asia, and possibly elsewhere to, in 2008 went bankrupt, and had to receive not one, but a spate of bail outs that amounted to hundreds of billions of pounds and euros and whatever currency.
Many hundreds of billions!
If the governments had kept out of the banks' business, the economy of many countries would have crashed, and there would have been hundreds of millions of people with no money!
How so many top bankers managed this, and ended up becoming holy saints or martyrs in your books, just goes beyond my comprehension! - Howard in the greater scheme of things it really is a small amount. I know how this issue winds people up but it's a nine day wonder at best. There are far more important issues which we all face.
The latest one is how the conservative party have taken the mantle of the pointless party from the liberals and really have shown themselves to be batting for the other side rather than the UK.
The amendment to the eu bill was defeated which will mean that at some time in the not too distant future whatever sovereignty we have will be lost forever.
There really will be not point whatsoever in voting in general elections. There will be nobody to vote for that can truly represent us.
From now on voting really is a mugs game, a pointless activity only useful for the walk you take to the nearest polling station.
Ha! So much for tory euroscepticism eh?
Banks? Tax? Jobs? It's all gonna be out of our hands soon. - Alexander - the banking problem it was not as widespread as you suggest.
The source of the bank problem was Clinton in the USA forcing banks to lend to people who previously could not borrow.
Encouraged by Brown in a Mansion House speech, who had also reduced the level of regulatory oversight on the UK banks they were free to cash in on that bonanza. this 'toxic debt' was packaged with other less toxic debt, in some cases fraudulantly (one high profile trial in the USA) and sold on.
The domestic UK situation was made worse because of Brown's inflation brief to the Bank of England ignored housing costs and levels of debt in the economy. As a result interest rates were kept too low for too long at a time when they should have been used to curb house cost rises and a massive debt bubble.
Taken together we had a deadly mix.
As soon as the economy started to slow down, as it always does on a regular cycle, it did not take long for this pack of card (of Fantasy Island as some journalists described it) to start to tumble.
This is a complex set of problems, difficult if not impossible to explain to people, therefore Brown was able to scapegoat, quite disgracefully, the banks. It suited other politicians to accept, at least in part, placing a higher degree of blame on the banks than is justified because it is simply too difficult to communicate the more complex truth.
Other problems also relate to the levels of government debt that many countries have, the UK being among the worse. Too many governments have been deficit spending so when the slowdown hit they are in trouble and that trouble is not ended. In the EU the Euro has compounded the problem because the weaker countries cannot allow their currency take some of the strain. The combination of problems that has been facing the world economy are massive and largely caused by irresponsible governments.
So yes, the banks are not entirely innocent, but the blame has been placed on them out of proportion to reality.
A lot of countries did not go into recession at all and the Far East has done very well indeed. You should just see how well Far East and Emerging Market investment funds have done. Note how HSBC, the biggest banking group in Asia, did not need any bail-out. - barryw,to clear up a point in your post below,who are you actuly blaming clinton or the euro/eu.
- Brian - I have said that there are a lot of factors in a complex and connected world.
You may like a simple scapegoat but life is not that simple. I did explain, try reading it carefully. - Barry, I don't disagree with all that you wrote about the banking situation, however, in 2008 many governments introduced a new and more effective control system in banks, after the banking crisis, in order to prevent the banks making any risky mistakes.
This means that your opinion that governments should keep out of businesses (with specific reference to the banks and their investment policies) is not viable and is probably not shared by any poilitical party, either in Briitain or in many other countries.
I do believe that the governments in the EU have made it hard for many businesses to function according to principles of fair trade and commerce, but the regulatory system on banking investments seems to be somemthing that most people welcome, because a few top bankers cannot be allowed to make almighty-like decisions over enormous amounts of savings without some-one higher up keeping an eye open, for precaution's sake!
After all, the money that the top bankers manage, is money that belongs to maney people and businesses! - Alexander. Working in Financial Services (not banks!) I am not against regulation as such but I am against the wrong regulation. My industry needs the right kind of regulation (without unnecessary interferance in business matters).
One problem is that Brown got regulation of the banks wrong and I am not totally convinced they have it right now. There is a careful balance to be struck to avoid over-regulation that will damage the industry and under regulation that will potentially damage the country.
You refer to 2008 but the jury remains out on that change. - barry,is it inpossable for you to answer a simple question with out being sarcastic.
- Then read the answer Brian which was in the post before you asked the question. I will answer sensible questions sensibly but daft ones will get the reply they deserve, if any.
- barry,there is no answer to the question asked in any of your re
sent posts. - Brian - open your eyes...
------------
brian, Dover:
barryw,to clear up a point in your post below,who are you actuly blaming clinton or the euro/eu.
12 January 2011 at 11:19 AM
-------
Barry Williams, Dover:
Alexander - the banking problem it was not as widespread as you suggest.
The source of the bank problem was Clinton in the USA forcing banks to lend to people who previously could not borrow.
Encouraged by Brown in a Mansion House speech, who had also reduced the level of regulatory oversight on the UK banks they were free to cash in on that bonanza. this 'toxic debt' was packaged with other less toxic debt, in some cases fraudulantly (one high profile trial in the USA) and sold on.
The domestic UK situation was made worse because of Brown's inflation brief to the Bank of England ignored housing costs and levels of debt in the economy. As a result interest rates were kept too low for too long at a time when they should have been used to curb house cost rises and a massive debt bubble.
Taken together we had a deadly mix.
As soon as the economy started to slow down, as it always does on a regular cycle, it did not take long for this pack of card (of Fantasy Island as some journalists described it) to start to tumble.
This is a complex set of problems, difficult if not impossible to explain to people, therefore Brown was able to scapegoat, quite disgracefully, the banks. It suited other politicians to accept, at least in part, placing a higher degree of blame on the banks than is justified because it is simply too difficult to communicate the more complex truth.
Other problems also relate to the levels of government debt that many countries have, the UK being among the worse. Too many governments have been deficit spending so when the slowdown hit they are in trouble and that trouble is not ended. In the EU the Euro has compounded the problem because the weaker countries cannot allow their currency take some of the strain. The combination of problems that has been facing the world economy are massive and largely caused by irresponsible governments.
So yes, the banks are not entirely innocent, but the blame has been placed on them out of proportion to reality.
A lot of countries did not go into recession at all and the Far East has done very well indeed. You should just see how well Far East and Emerging Market investment funds have done. Note how HSBC, the biggest banking group in Asia, did not need any bail-out.
------
The explanation is in that post. Try reading it and understanding it... I told you ""there are a lot of factors in a complex and connected world"" it is all there written down for you. - barry,you still havent cleared up clintons involvment in all this hoo haa.
- Communities reinvestment act.
- mmmmmm right whatever.when barry desides to reply.
- That's what Barry is refering to, the communities reinvestment act which was passed in order to allow poorer people to buy houses. The road to hell is paved with good intentions and this one backfired and some according to some. It was actually signed by the good ol' peanut farmer himself Jimmy Carter. Over the years it underwent changes and ammendments and it is said that it led up to the banking crisis a couple of years ago when it, along with other financial instruments of mass destruction and what is essentially criminal practices by major financial institutions where loans were sold and sold again did indeed lead up to the state we now find ourselves in. It has to be said that it is only one aspect of the current crisis but practices such as these dodgy dealings served as a catalyst to economic armageddon.
Add to that the enormous debt which major countries owe to the markets means that North America, the UK, much of Europe and other nations means that these people have bequethed a terrible legacy to our children and in turn their children.
- philip,thanks but i wish barry would make his point more clearer in future.
- It has to be said, however, that there is much more to this story than meets the eye. The conventional view is that the bankers and their ilk caused this problem and to a great extent their practices certainly did. But there is much more too this and it is only many years into the future that historians can look back and give a more rounded picture of what led up to this major disaster.
As it stands most commentators, politicians and the man in the street is fixated on "the evil bankers" instead of trying to delve deeper into the cause and effect of other factors which include politics and erm, politics.
So, for example, while everyone is transfixed on the flooding in Australia and feeling sympathy with those in power who tearfully stand behind lecturns and tell the world "We are Australians and We'll get back on our two feet before ya know it Bruce" the bigger story (for now at least) is not being addressed - namely could the flooding have been made worse by bad management of the Wivenhoe dam alongside the Australian government's insane environmental policies which caused so much suffering during the terrible bush fires they experienced recently where tree clearance was banned because the tree huggers forbade it.
Funny how two seemingly separate issues have the same common denominator. - Brian - Clinton's role has been explained before. Besides I did pre'ce the problem.
Essentially Philip correctly explained the situation but,I would say, the packaging and sale of debt is a reasonable and respectable practise provided it is done properly and the debt's true credit rating is known by the purchaser.
This is done all the time and the debt is traded by fund managers and used to benefit income seekers. It is also used to mitigate equity risk in portfolios. - interesting post, had to read the stuff from the chap with the unpronounceable job title a few times, his comments about a currency war struck a chord. i keep reading about how china will not dance to the tune of the united states.
the last bit about the unlikelihood of low inflation, growth and equity markets does not bode well.
not sure about alistair campbell being the anti christ though, he has enough problems being a burnley supporter.
i would have thought he would have been an inexpensive choice of after dinner speaker. - was funny when blair as pm
you would have thought a c ampbell was pm - Barry was that a typo when you quoted "10% chance of global inflation"? Surely that should read 100% chance. There is now way, other than a complete worldwide economic collapse that we face deflation. The cost of everything is up and will continue to go up. Commodities are set to increase with everything from food to metals to energy on the rise.
Unless something untoward occurs everything will increase in price - well not exactly everything, so house prices will collapse and other non essential items might find themselves left on the shelf but day to day living expenses will hit the roof. It's the way it's always been and will continue for life everlasting.
So when the latest line of politicians and those who have some sort of power over us tell us of a new world order or new progressive political landscape we can sit back and laugh at them because the self same people have been saying the same things for thousands of years. - Saw a little piece about a Maidstone farmer who has planning permission to build a solar array on his farmland recently. He raved about the feed in tarrif which will make him rich with no questioning from the interviewer (BBC I might add) about how a corrupt subsidies system invented by politicians would lead to increased fuel poverty to the very poorest but hey ho another day.
What made me chuckle was the quote he gave to the Daily mirror.
He said: “We have considered wind turbines and biomass boilers but solar power seems like the best option. There’ll still be enough room for my sheep”
When he talked about sheep who on earth do you think he was talking about? - "New fathers to get paid paternity leave increased from two weeks to TEN MONTHS under Coalition plans".
Or in other words another nail in the coffin of whatever makes this country money is driven firmly home. Oh hang on it's because of the coalition and David Cameron wouldn't dream of undertaking such stupid measures if it were not for teaming up with the liberals.
That excuse is looking increasingly overused lately.
- i hope the government negotiators are more restrained in their talks with the unions barry.
phrases like "dimwitted" and "twerps" are hardly likely to help any tense discussions. - I have total contempt for Trade Unions - they are an enemy to everyone who wants a more prosperous life.
They were guilty of so much destruction in the past and still have not grown up.
I express my own views Howard and what I said barely touches the disgust I have for them. - I think you are barking up the wrong tree on this one Barry. It's an old class war/labour versus Tory/Beatles or Rolling stones issue.
I think you should be more worried about the directorships and paid advisory roles undertaken by various Tory members of Parliament and House of Lords peers which have a far greater reach in terms of government policy.
- BarryW I think the opposite could be the case, in that instead of bankrupting the Unions, the Unions could themselves inturn bring about the current governments demise, if there was a period of extreme discontent, and there is already discontent amongst the populace at large.
But it must be remembered that the Unions are also the voice of a large moderate workforce and give Joe Soap some semblance of hope that he may be listened to in the great scheme of things.
Take today... FIVE or is it SIX trade unions in the NHS are seriously against this current 'modernisation' of same. I dont believe these are particularly radical unions but you can see Andrew Lansley is NOT taking people with him over these health reforms. Does any one of us know if Lansley actually knows what he's doing here.
The Unions do involve themselves in some very unpopular strikes in some cases, i say some cases...like bringing the tube trains out on the day of the Royal Wedding is not something to endear a particular union to the masses, but off the top of my head thats Mr Crowe isnt it, and Im afraid he is rather of the old school unionwise.
But overall I wouldnt expect union breaking to be on Cameron's list of priorities as Im sure he recognises they have some value. - two things paul has raised here.
a) i don't think that today's union leaders are held in thrall by their members as in the past, the workers will decide whether to take industrial action.
b)these health reforms seem to very vague, the only definite change i have read so far is that primary care trust money will go direct to g.p.'s - PaulB - You have explained exactly why the Unions are a menace and Cameron must be strong and set out to destroy them if they kick up a fuss.
The NHS offers an second rate service (despite many first rate staff) simply because there are many dinosaurs who kick up an hysterical fuss and try to prevent necessary reform.
Reform though is itself not enough, the NHS should be done away with and replaced by an insurance based scheme. Sadly the government will not go far enough on this and while the reforms should go some way to improve service, it will remain a fundamentally flawed way of delivering health. - THE number of patients waiting for cancer test results has more than doubled under the ConDems. Latest figures show 5,583 people were kept hanging on for more than six weeks before they are sent for a test requested by their GP - a 128 per cent rise on the 2,439 a year ago. The figures cover 15 diagnostic tests, including MRI and CT scans, for common cancers and heart disease. Waiting times have rocketed since Health Secretary Andrew Lansley scrapped a series of NHS targets in June. It is obvious they want to bring our NHS to its knees.
Cuts to Culture, Environment, Health, Regions, Transport, Education, Families, Pensions, Social Care, Welfare.
Swimming and even course’s like tai-chi, part of a disabled person’s recovery, are being withdrawn. They want our disabled to go back to work but are taking away their treatment support.
They want our un-employed to go back to work but are creating un-employment.
They think it’s ok to cut a soldier’s pension and ok for the MOD to get rid of him, after having his legs blown off, but it’s ok for MOD managers & clerical staff to get huge bonuses.
Shutting care homes and hospital wards but allowing huge bank bonuses.
Huge cuts in Children’s services whilst the rich and wealthy, now including footballers, use loopholes to avoid paying Tax.
And it goes on and on.
If you add up the amounts of savings from all these cuts, mainly from the poorest in our country, you will see that it far exceeds the amount they said they needed to make, when blaming Labour for them.
You only truly enjoy the good when you have lived the worst. The conservatives know there reign is going to be short, that is the true reason they are slamming this country with everything they can, to enjoy a few good years for themselves because they only care about themselves and sod everyone else. People will never forgive this Government.
- Baz
as usual your wide of the mark,. but firstly i need to correct a few issues raised.
the tube strike over the xmas period was nowt to do with bob crow
no E on the end of his name, athough i'm sure he woud ike the credit for the soidarity shown.
this action was called by the train drivers union ASLE&F non usualy a miitant union, normally backs out of strikes at last minute.
on this dispute of course Some RMT members woudnt cross picket lines in an act of soidarity.
just to explain the unions within the railways
there are 3 recognised trade unions
TRAIN DRIVERS ASLEF
OTHER GRADES R.MT OR T.S.S.A
The train drivers union usualy shouts a lot acts lefty but at the moment of crunch backs down not always iun the interests of its members
TSSA Is very nearly A non striking assoc although in days of losing members it has started to to look more radicaL
RMT Led by bob Crow an out and out lefty never hidden it pulled the RMT out of links with labour at first opportunity when taking over as leader.
no longer part of TUC
rather than dismante unions i coud list a large number of unions that are not left leaning, whom you dont hear much about, but go about there work every day quietly representing there membership.
the unions have a right to represent there members when all other options break down strike action may be the only option left.
today everything still is favouring employers rather than an even playing field.
as iv said before the govt should look more towards an even playing field, and how disputes can be resolved before strikes take place.
working together is the way forward
the only way forward,,,,,,,, - Keith - I did not mention the Christmas strikes. Re-read what I said.
Gary - the coalition has only been in power for 8 months, the so called cuts have no started to bite yet, so you have to look elsewhere to lay blame. The NHS has an appalling cancer survival record compated to other country's systems, perhaps the artificial targets that distort clinical priorities are party to blame. Do remember as well, like is not necessarily being compared to like and perhaps you should look at the agenda of those interpreting statistics.
You can witter on all you want about how terrible you think cuts are but, ultimately, they are only needing to be made because of the fiscal and budgetary incompetence and policies of the last government. There is no choice and, if anything, the 'cuts' are not nearly deep enough and only take us back to the spending levels of 2006 over 4 years. Hardly cuts, the government was overspending in 2006 to a criminal degree. - Is Cameron a flip-flopper? That is the question.
Cast you mind back to August of 2009 when Dan Hannan was quoted to say "We have a system where the most salient facts of it you get huge waiting lists, you have bad survival rates and you would much rather fall ill in the US."
Cameron, full of righteous indignation, goes on television to say that Hannan holds "some rather eccentric points of view".
I do wish he would make his mind up. I don't know what to think now. Mind you neither does he so we're not alone in this respect.
Where next eh?
Hopefully he'll see sense and leave the church of climate change and adopt some sensible energy policies which would include the sacking of Chris Huhne, Caroline Spelman, John Gummer, Zac Goldsmith, Tim Yeo etc. etc. etc. - whenever i hear the word "reform" to health or education from politicians i cringe.
yes there are areas where outside expertise is needed.
in particular buying of equipment, at present local trusts and even hospitals are buying stuff at ridiculously different prices.
in my view a branch of the n.h.s. should be set up and run by people that are experienced in the private sector of buying.
doctors should just say what they need and leave it to the commercial coves to deliver.
we all know the advantages of bulk buying. - sounds like we going back to pre bevan days of if you got dosh docter will see you but if you havent tough you get sick and die.
- BarryW. Let me inform you that you are very wrong. These cuts might not have affected you yet but they have affected many thousands of other people already, including me and my family.
Which rather makes my point, does it not?
You only believe your own statistics and no one else’s, so will never give a balanced view.
Do you agree with the MOD dishing out big bonus’s to management & clerical staff, while making pension cuts to injured soldiers?
- No gary, but it is a simple fact that the cuts have hardly begun to bite yet. It is a four year programme.
Cuts is a misnomer as well. Public spending is really only being reduced relative to inflation.
The sad fact is that the so called cuts are no-where deep enough. Much greater efforts are needed to slash public spending.
Do you realise that the last time there were real, proper spending cuts was in 1922, a previous Con-Lib coalition.... I thought before last Thursday it was Callaghan in the last 70's but I was wrong...found out this gem at my conference. - Barry.
No???????????????
That’s the depth of your answer to my question?
“Do you agree with the MOD dishing out big bonus’s to management & clerical staff, while making pension cuts to injured soldiers?
Could you perhaps put a bit more fat on your answer instead of your usual avoidance by wittering on with your usual diatribe?
Cuts are a misnomer eh. Wow, were all going to be ok then, thanks for that little gem.
- It's widely accepted that tax rises have nothing to do with cuts but are to fund a new backbone for David Cameron which he lacks when dealing with the EU.
Not many people know that. - Gary - I was quite clear in agreeing with you over the MoD and it needs no more than what I said, a no - a clean clear cut answer. If you dont like it then tough luck.
As for cuts the figures speak for themselves.
I can't comment on any impact on you as you have not explained the nature of that alleged impact. - gary
there are serious problems locally with the health service, most of this is due to an overspend by the hospitals.
they were generously looked after by the last government and seemed to get carried away thinking they would be bailed out.
having said that, health professionals are concerned about pressure being exerted on them to make savings.
good crack from philip there. - Thanks Howard. The thing is that I've just posted off five euros to David Cameron's office (it's the only currency he recognises) in order to help fund the appeal. His backbone is in a far worse state than doctors thought following a predicted defeat in the commons when they debate the rights of prisoners to vote in general elections. According to the Telegraph, David Cameron has said the prospect of prisoners voting leaves him “physically sick” whilst fully supporting legislation which would indeed give prisoners the right to vote.
Perhaps he was refering to his ailing backbone when he talked about feeling physically sick - who knows? Who cares what he says anyhow? Whatever he does say you cannot believe it anyhow given the flip-flops he's performed on virtually every single policy statement he's ever made. - Just seen some guy on the beginning of Newsnight talking about the possibilty that the United States might become a "global insignificance" with the growing of developing nations. I've read some depressing pieces about the long term American outlook but that is the most depressing so far.
Hyperbole?
Who can tell.
The US has a fantastic record of bouncing back. - barry
today's beer is a lot more potent than the stuff many of us were brought up on, if you drank 4 pints we were just running to the loo, certainly not getting drunk or noisy.
the new propsals are as close to doing nothing as they could get.
the problem booze is the extra strength cheap and nasty lager, this was treated much the same as all other drinks.
i liked that one about raising the price of a bottle of spirits to a tenner, would love it to be that "expensive. - Barry
Our neighbours the French educate their off springs to the pleasures of alcohol from a very early age. It has been medically proven that a glass of red helps the digestive process.
I'm for banning the sale of alcohol from supermarkets,corner shops and uncle toms cobbly and allowing only sales from an off sales dept from the local pub.This would in my opinion do 2 things 1) it would ensure that alcohol was not freely available to kids from the likes of corner shops that have sold booze indiscriminately to one and all to make a quick buck and 2) maintain the traditional local pub so important in maintaining our communities. Landlords would be far less willing to risk their livelihood selling booze to kids thus operating a firmer and hopefully tighter control.
Finally alcohol permitting ID cards could be issued to youngsters aged 18 and over by the local police station that have to be produced in order to enable teenagers to purchase alcohol .Any abuse,drunkeness etc could result in the withdrawal of the ID therefore making it difficult for them to buy booze in the future. - marek
im a for your idea - the law is currently good enough if applied correctly.
anyone that looks under the age of 25 years has to produce photo id before purchase.
this is then restricted to passport, photo driving licence or one other identity card that has official approval. - Well any law the government put in place whereby they insist on a minimum price for certain drinks will definitley contravene eu law, as it stands, but would undoubtedly be a boon for the ferry industry.
I must say I rather like the cafe culture encouraged by Tony Blair and it's wonderful to see young people enjoy the fine wine and conversation from early in the evening till the early hours.
I must say that there should be a programme on the television looking at sub-standard wine sold at the various cafes and bars in high streets up and down the country - whenever I see footage of young people partaking in these activities many of them seem to be suffering the end result of corked wine. It causes them to stagger and behave beligerantly and sometimes causes problems with the local police where they do things such as gesticulating behind an officer of the law's back.
Something must be done.
Apart from that I tend to agree with Barry's latest post on this subject. - fret not philip dave has whacked a minimum price of £.10.70 for a litre of vodka despite the present price being at least 50% more, these people are totally out of touch. he has given the supermarkets the green light to cut prices.
i can remember him mouthing off that he wanted to stop people getting 8 cans of stella for a fiver.
never occurred to him that stella was an up market beer, and that it was blue lager cans and white cider that was being the problem. - Ahh white cider. Oh how I remember those halcyon days, those long balmy evenings on the balcony in Tangiers talking with the Ambassadors wife till dawn before falling off into the open sewer below........
There seems to be a disconnect between politicians and experts and the wider public on this and other important matters.
The average man on the street knew the consequences of Blair's fiddling with the licencing laws and it's only lately the same politicians are wringing their hands telling us something must be done. Well it's a bit late now you chumps!
Funny how every initiative put forward to tackle this and every issue under the sun is to tax it more - Booze, petrol, the very air we breathe.
They never learn do they? - you seem to have left out the cointreau and the ferrero rocher philip?
i disagree with you about th licencing law, they were originally tested on our usual guinea pigs(the scots) and it was found that the late night rush for neck oil fuelled anti social behaviour.
when people found that they did not have to rush to get a pint they were more relaxed. - Stop selling beer at stores,open pubs at 1800hrs close at 2300hrs ,open dinner times 01100hrs close 1430hrs,no one under 18 to use them,will see the end of most of the anti-social behaviour.
- Go back to that dreadful licencing system we had 20 years ago then Vic. Crazy.
People simply wont put up with being told anymore that on a hot summer afternoon they cant buy a pint in a pub. Or, ineed on a winter afternoon either.
The answer is not to treat grown responsible adults like children punishing the majority for the idiocy of a few, mostly youngsters. - pubs are not the problem in the main, people get tanked up on cheap booze before they go to the pub.
i think that pubs should be allowed to open when they like, they know what their customers want. should there be a problem with neighbours, then the licensing authority can take action. - Just take a gentle stroll down the shopping precinct towards the fountain and see the effect of the change in licencing laws. Both young and old enjoying the distinct pleasures of jolly conversation and quaffing of fine wines at eleven in the morning. The children seem to enjoy themselves too, or at least they seem to sat there in their buggies taking in the sea air.
It's inspirational. - so true philip, i passed the very establishment at the time the bookies opposite were being turned over.
the alfresco ambience of the house of wetherspoon lent itself to enchantment as it's clientele sipped cointreau and picked at their tapas.
not all of them though, some were simply knocking back near to sell by date lager, puffing smoke into each others faces and using some very interesting language for the benefit of those perambulating by. - Instead of taxes and raising prices, why can't those who are binge drinking, be fined - heavily, for being drunk in a public place ?
A few (enforceable) fines of £80 or more, would soon cut it down and leave the prices for sensible drinkers alone.
Roger - roger
i dont share your view at all on fines.
i have been drunk in my time
as barryw and paulb have also admitted
so lets be careful where we are heading on this one - In the 1960s I was abinge drinker ,and I lost my house at the bay over it and in the end most of my family to, But I do not drink now as you know and have been off it for well over 30years,If I had carred on the way I was going I would not be here today. So if you drink alot stop it,the same could happen to you, and as you get older the harder it is to stop.
- baz;
rose tinted glasses comes to mind
nuff said - sounds like you are whistling in the dark barry, ed balls has a first class honours degree for philosophy, politics and economics.
george osborne has something similar in modern history.
ed is a rottweiller, george is certainy not.
i would expect some fireworks in the commons, george has had a free run so far. - Howard - forget the man's degrees, just look at his track record, it is that which tells us more about him, appalling, truly appalling.
- i agree osboure is appalling,but ed balls is a great chap.
- Whatever happens it looks like Have I got News for you has a missing words headline from today's report in the Mail.
'** ********* ** hand job to Balls' - Howard, both Balls (from private all-boys Nottingham High School, where he played the violin) & Gid's degrees are from Oxford.
Thank goodness that even in the so called 'Labour' Party the toffs have risen to the top? - well rim, both the milibands went to comprehensive schools and gained scholarships to oxford, whereupon they gained degrees.
no sign of patronage there, mrs thatcher would have hailed them as great achievers. - Barry, I can assure you that I won't be voting for Labour's economic policies, no matter who they put up.
Labour's economic credibility couldn't have gone lower than the deficit of the State Treasury, which is in an appalling minus! - alex,not as good as ukips then,torys aint much better along with the lib/dems.
- I will just add to this,at this very time we have both the main partys big money backers coming over to UKIP,indeed the blues backer is aready working in a post at UKIP headoffice.Last year he gave the blues £5 million but that will not happen again a very big+for UKIP.
- vic
who are the previous reds that are now backing your party? - BarryW.
Shameless!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Nothing about, the PM and Riven Vincent? Nothing about Lord Taylor of Warwick, fiddling his expences? Nothing about Andy Coulson alledged Hacking? Nothing about Stewart wheeler being UKIP treasurer (that’s a good one) and o yes no mention of Lord Strathclyde's affair with single mum? All good topics Barry.
- Barry I am telling you that Mr Wheeler is our treasurer,and I am also trying to get him to come to Dover before May.
- i am confused again vic, i don't think that barry mentioned mr wheeler anywhere.
are you willing to name the formerly red backers who have swithced their alleignce? - gary(deal)
don't forget this is barry'w unbiased blog lol
howard
you wil i suspect wait a long time for a reply from vic on backers - No I did read it wrong ,and not for the first time.Howard I will let you know when they are with UKIP, AT THIS TIME IT IS SAID THAT THEY COULD BE,NOT THAT THEY WILL.
- When all is said and done you guys will continue to vote for your respective favourite political parties so whatever you say on this and any other political issue is largely irrelevant. We will continue to decline as a nation and find ourselves relegated to banana republic status whilst the in-fighting still goes on.
The really big issues are being missed by all three policital parties, quite deliberately in my mind, for the truth is deemed to dangerous to confront. - Gary - I decide what I write about on my blog and 'do' 3 subjects a week.
Sometimes I will digress to having a bit of fun with a light topic or to 'pee off' the politically correct. When not doing that I prefer to pick a subject that is interesting to me, of political importance or of some substance.
None of what you mentioned are of any importance, substance or interest. But if that idiot Taylor gets found guilty it may feature, though I have already 'done to death' expenses when that first MP was found guilty.
As for Lord Strathclyde, jealous of him are you? She is certainly a tastly bint. A woman scorned may interest the media but there have just been too many of those type of stories to interest me now. Coulson has been discussed in the members formum incidentally.
As for the rest - you raise it in the forum if it is interesting to you. - not everyone would agree about that assessment of the coalition.
last week alan sugar(who knows a bit about business) likened the coalition to leyton orient playing in the champions league. - Alan Sugar should know better Howard. the man is a life long Labour supporter and was a member of Brown's government. He has rightly been sacked....
You can see for yourself the relative life experiences of each side. - I much prefer labours team who are more in touch with the electorate. My friend John Healey also went to Cambridge Univ and spent a number of years as a unpaid voluntary worker before entering politics..much to his fathers dismay who had to continue to support John.So please don't be so dismissive of their team..they will come back and bite you..
- barryw
again the rose tinted glasses
we won't ever agree
nor have you given this an unbisased look at the two
but hey, this is your unbiased political blog lol - Marek and Keith - just look at it, I say again it speaks for itself.
The Labour 'team' really have no experience of running businesses or running anything much, no experience of the armed forces, very, very important for government.
You can shake your heads and be in denial if you like but we have seen 13 years in which clearly the government's policies have gravitated towards the limited interests of the policymakers. Forgotten, neglected and disregarded have been key areas such as wealth creation, business profitability and defence, all where Labour has the least experience and areas of the greatest importance.
We are now paying the price - a wrecked economy and a Defence budget that did not meet the resources available. Sadly the latter still does not and much, much more needs spending on defence. - Yes indeed a list as long as your finger showing the various jobs the front bench have held over the years and yet none of them with the good sense to have a word in Dave's ear and tell him how wrong he is on fuel duty, climate change, Europe and caving into their demands, saving a pittance by cutting crucial spending and yet wasting more on others along with other daft government policies which do us all no good - not one of them.
What a motley crew some might say although I have to agree the opposition are just about collectively qualified to run a small social services office or student union agitprop meeting. - Barry.
You never disappoint with your replies.
I wasn’t having a bit of fun and of course it’s your blog, so you decide content.
I, of course, am entitled to comment.
I am not being pc about your topics, they are, in the majority, one sided. That’s my point.
My take on Politian’s are simple, if they are up to no good, it does not matter who they represent. They should all act responsibly, including morally.
As for your childish remark of being jealous of Lord Strathclyde, I find that quite funny.
Personally, I am big on family values, so would never stoop to their level.
Many MP’s, from all sides, have affairs, that’s their business, unless they preach, to us, that we should refrain, from such practices.
As for calling the other woman a “Tastly Bint” that’s just your contempt coming through again and not funny.
As for the rest- I, will choose where to raise my comments, or are you banning me from your blog?
- barry
if we are making comparisons about who is best on economics, perhaps we should make the following comparison.
alan sugar, left school at 15, flogged car aerials from a stall in walthamstow market then became a millionaire in no time, a multi millionaire in not much longer time.
dave and george went to eton then oxford and cambridge, neither have ever run a business.
i know who i would trust most over economic decisions. - i think its fair to say im not alone in seeing this is a totally biased posting from barryw
had she been more cross party there are a few tories that do a fair job
but i wil leave it to barryw to dream on - Gary - of course you found it funny, it was meant to be. As for calling her a 'bint' - well thats pretty much the midlest description I could think of to describe a woman who bonks another mans wife for 8 years!!!
Of course I am not banning you from commenting - I would jsut prefer the comments to relate to what the blog is about.
Howard - What has Sugar got to do with economics? He is just a businessman, yes a successful one in his own right but one who seems never to have grown up from the failed politics he was a fan of in his youth. He is no economist.
Keith - of course its biased its not meant to be anything else so drop that particular whinge. You have not addressed to diferences in life experience at all. - Keefy me oul china of course its biased..its supposed to be. This is a Conservative Blog and no bones about it. But the idea is that you can disagree with the content and kind of bounce things off BarryW.
- yes paulb/barryw the blog is biased
think you have both missed my point completly
its fine to continue to go down the biased blog
what might have been good was seeing baz's feelings on who might fit into a tory or labour govt
from other parties
as i say there are tories even that barryw mentions that are good politicians not my cup of tea but stil good
suppose im to honest - Keith - we can all put together our 'fantasy government' and maybe one day I will do just that but this blog today is about what we have, in reality not fantasy...
- barry
you talk of life experiences, mr sugar is the epitome of success.
you say that the reds were a disaster because they had no experience in running anything.
what have dave, george and nick ran as a business? - Look at the full team Howard, its the full team that I am focussing on, - dont pick on just two, and address the current cabinet and current shadow cabinet - far more relevance.
I could easily play that same game but that is not the point. - o.k. then barry, let's take a look at the comments of the outgoing head honcho of the c.b.i.
sir richard lambert opined "the coalition has failed in big picture terms to articulate their vision of how the british economy would benefit under their stewardship", he then went on to add that some politically motivated changes were damaging. - Howard, he also said this in his closing address:
""Some bold initiatives would be in order. For example, rebuilding large parts of the nation’s power generating industry will require more investment capital than the market left to itself is likely to supply. So I would favour the development of a green investment bank designed to channel long-term finance from the pensions institutions into energy infrastructure – not easy to do, but perfectly possible with a bit of imagination and courage.
"A focus on the development of human capital – the education, training and skills that a mature economy will need to succeed in a globalised world. Tax policies that will attract foreign capital, incentivise entrepreneurs and encourage long-term investment. The physical infrastructure – digital networks, roads, rail, air and sea ports – that’s required to support a modern economy. A diverse supply of low-carbon energy at competitive prices. A healthy banking sector, which business can rely on through thick and thin".
The man's an idiot.
- Oh and I should point out that whatever is discussed here or on every other forum up and down the country it will make little difference. When you consider what the BBC chose to lead on every single regional phone in, headline, comment piece, in depth discussion even on the world service, no less, then you know that we are all whistling in the wind.
Two blokes are heard making comments regarded as sexist by the great and the good so this is the topic de jour.
Utterly disgraceful, the media coverage that is, and gives us all an insight as to who exactly dictates the news agenda.
Isn't it about time the licence fee was scrapped? - Lambert is reportted to be after a top job now at the BBC so by coming out with anti-government and pro-environmental comments he is certainly lining himself up to fit in with the BBC ethos.
- Yes we witness the results of the governments obsession with everything green with todays announcement that the economy is contracting. It was ever so slightly toe curlingly cringemaking when the only excuse offered by George Osbourne earlier today was to blame the weather - again and again - and again. It's just as well it was an exceptionally cold winter otherwise no doubt he would be putting the blame on climate change.
High taxes and an overbearing fixation with making our economy green is undermining any competitive edge we may have as I have pointed out time after time but shouted down for being obsessed with the subject.
Well we now see the results.
You ain't seen nothing yet. We are going down the tubes fast. When the outgoing head of the CBI tells us that we should fast track our economy into a carbon free economy you know the game is over.
Petrol prices are set to rise helped by the hand of green taxes plus VAT in order to save the planet, gas and electric bills are also set to soar for the same pointless reason. This will hamstring our manufacturing base and make consumers poorer but no matter, this government is saving planet earth. - Philip - it was the OBR that said that the December weather was the cause being the coldest since 1910. Osborne merely quoted that. They said that the economy would, to quote Darling, have had 'zero percent growth' if there was a normal December.
This is no major surprise, I said earlier in January that we have a rocky year ahead, its bound to be, wrestling with such an appalling economic legacy. it is more important than ever for Osborne to stick to his guns over the deficit and accellerate government cuts and lift a heavy burden from business. - Getting back to the list above, I followed a web link to this quote from Bell Pottinger Public Affairs - "At the moment the Labour leader has two major problems to overcome. How he looks and what he says."
- That looks very similar to the hockey stick graph that David Cameron, Chris Huhne and many other eco freaks have pinned to their parlour wall. Turn it upside down and it will give you quite a good indication of people's opinions of politicians and "experts" over the past few years.
- Ed Balls always look like he has just caught his gooleys in the refrigerator door..its normal. But no matter what the official spin on these quarterly figures is..and shock horror BarryW is spinning above...the fact of the matter is this dip caught everyone by surprise, including Boy George who just clearly assumed the figures would rise and rise.
Fear has kicked in with the great masses..the fear of job losses, the fear of vat, the fear of rising fuel prices, the fear of public sector mergings, all this has forced the consumer to reconsider his spending, if indeed he has anything left to spend.
I saw that outdoor interview with George and he seemed to have a large smirk or tongue in cheek when he audaciously started blaming the snow. Is this the first case in history where a Chancellor of the Exchequer blamed snow for poor quarterly figures?
One green issue of sorts that concerns me though, one for Phillip, is the proposal to sell off acres of forest. That surely is very short term thinking, akin to Mrs Thatcher selling off the council house stock way back then. The housing stock lost was never replaced and we have had a national shortfall ever since.
But back to the trees. Yes once again it would probably save money in upkeep but you lose a national asset forever. The acreage will be bought by the likes of Donald Trump who can more or less do with the land and trees what he will afterwards. Its sacrilege.
I note that both Wales and Scotland have refused to have anything to do with this. Their forests will not be sold off. Lot of good things happening in Scotland lately, if only it was further south!
Life shouldnt always be just about money..I mean, the family needs its silver! - this forestry issue is very vague, we do not know what the results of selling them would be.
the government has to clarify the effects on us otherwise they will be getting a rough ride from the public.
most people enjoy forests and pursue interests such as rambling, bird watching, fishing in the ponds, kids love climbing trees.
you cannot put a cash value on such pleasures. - No PaulB -
1/ As I pointed out it was the OBR who said that the weather was a cause and GO repeated that.
2/ I am not spinning at all, merely pointing out the facts and historical precedent.
The spin, of course, is coming from the opposition who are trying hard to attack the government over this. Ironic as they are the reason we are in the mess we have anyway.
As for the forests - well it is quite touching this weird and overblown faith some people have in government ownership.
Some facts about this issue:
1/ Roughly 20% of Britains forests are in question here, thats all.
2/ It is merely a consultation paper.
3/ It is about community and charity ownership, not just commercial ownership.
4/ There are already a lot of commercially owned forests with which the public enjoy access.
5/ Where this scheme would involve commercial concerns they are talking of leasing only.
6/ Access by the public would be protected
- agreed it is only a consultation document.
however the national trust and other organisations are very wary that the privately owned forests could be used for logging or even parts to be developed for housing.
unless it is built in that the above cannot happen the government can expect a lot of opposition.
i don't see nick and chums going along with it, their party has many tree huggers. - I'm all in favour of retaining vital natural environments but a lot of the forests being considered are nothing more than commercial monoculture plantations and people are too quick to jump to emotional assumptions about them.
I'm reminded of the tv ad some years ago showing some 60s hippy tree huggers first taking their old VW camping in a forest and then taking their children (grandchildren?) back to see the same - except the trees had been cut down and regrown in between and used for newsprint etc.
Bedgbury is a prime example though I don't know if this is being considered for sale - the pinetum is lovely but the forest around it is just millions of pines (most not natural to this country) planted really close together so they grow upright and straight for timber production and blot out almost everything else. A good number of the forests that the Scots are so proud of are nothing but commercial plantations with foreign varities that grew too slowly for their intended use and were overtaken by modern materials then abandoned by their owners.
- People are getting their collective knickers in a twist about the selling off of the nations forests. It's a very middle class issue, in my mind, and is also a very immotive one. Let's face it most people make no use of forests whatsoever 'cept perhaps once every few years when they take the car for a long drive and find an allotted area in which to picnic making sure to leave their litter behind them before their long drive back home.
It's a non issue really. We are at the early consultation stage at the moment and there are enough loon wearing, tofu munchers in parliament to make sure the "Earth's lungs" keep breathing maaaaaaan.
After all remember the Tory party logo consists of a impressionistesque representation of a tree. Either that or a moss ridden window at the early stages of being scraped clean.
It highlights a perception of the way that the British people feel about private business (bad) and government ownership (very, very good). So any inkling of those evil, greedy capitalists getting hold of our dear brothers and sisters in nature, the trees, must be treated with great suspicion. I can hear them crying soulfully in the breeze, weeping for the damage to be caused at some time in the not too distant future by nature's number one enemy - Humans.
I can hear their call louder than I hear the forlorn wailings of the poor begotten sons of the blue whale to which I communicate with every evening.
Nah, I wouldn't worry about it after all if they didn't exist and the government were charged with creating forests can you imagine the appalling mess they would make of it? - As we keeep hearing and it was brought up also on Question Time the other night on BBC...the huge loss of jobs in the public sector are not, not, being replaced by the private sector. This idea that a resurgent growth in private sector jobs will take care of everything is a vague hope. This so called instant solution to the widespread cut in jobs is often touted by the coalition and it often appears to be the main Cameron/Clegg reassurance tagline...but what if it doesnt happen. There is no sign of it happening. It certainly wont happen in Dover when all the council employees are laid off..where will they get jobs!!?
The suggestions from BarryW above might be okay but it wont compensate for the climate of fear that seems to have overtaken business and the customers needed for those businesses. - PaulB - the simple fact is that the public sector offers no solution to the economic problems, on the contrary, it is a burder carried by business and in a brake on growth.
The only solution is with greater prosperity from more successful and profitable businesses. Everything needs to be done to boost business and make life easier for them to operate.
There is no sense of fear in business at all unless the 40 small business people I meet every Friday are unrepresentative.
So far the whole burden of the economic problems of this country have been thrust onto the private sector and it is right that this burden should be shifted to the public sector for the reasons I have mentioned.
Labour always get things around the wrong way, the tax and spend and then wonder why the money dries up and we are in trouble. If when in power they focussed on making things better and easier for business first and then spent only 'some of the proceeds of growth' there would be a more sustainable economy. They just never learn. - Barry.
Your words “The only solution is with greater prosperity from more successful and profitable businesses. Everything needs to be done to boost business and make life easier for them to operate”
That’s your solution to the way out of this mess.
I can actually agree with that.
The trouble with your philosophy behind it though, is greatly flawed.
Except for one man/woman business’s, it does not matter how good the business man/ woman is, he/she, cannot make it successful without a work force willing to make it a success.
You cannot treat people the way they are being treated now and sometime in the future expect them to be your plebes.
This Coalition is playing a very dangerous game and it will have dire consequences.
You will continue to blame the last government even when everyone knows full well, these cuts are well too excessive.
The list of hitting the poorest, oldest, youngest, even the un-born, disabled, is growing daily and your excuses are already falling on deaf ears.
- the simple answer is money,you need a job tot money,you need money to buy goods,a shop needs money to make aprofit so on and so forth.one visous circle.
- You seem to live in some kind of fantasy Gary. You need to find out what the real facts of life are and grow up out of a 70's them and us scenario.
- I would also add, Barry, that the sought-after increase in private-sector commerce cannot be achieved so easily in Britain and Europe owing to the severe austerity measures that have to be applied in each and every country that needs a bail out - or that has to avoid one!
There is too little money in the pockets of most people to afford investing in the economy as much as may-be the private sector would like.
But it is interesting that Vincent Cable expects the banks to lend a lot more money to people and businesses in Britain, where-as the banks refuse to do so! Doesn't that sound like a spanner in your plans of recovery?
I bet your point 6 on lower personal taxation and getting rid of the 50p rate refers to the banking scene and bonuses! - Alexander - point 6, no, not at all. A lot more than just bankers get caught by that rate but the big reason for getting rid of it is that it will not generate extra tax revenue and is a disincentive to risk takers.
The costs of government are a burden on business and it currently soaks up 53% of GDP. The cuts to government spending are essential to get us out of recession, indeed if anything the cuts are simply not deep enough.
Government spending is a hinderance to the private sector because it all has to be paid for out of taxation and is therefore a burden. Some of it, if spent wisely and efficiently can add to profitability, education and transport inrastructure for instance, so it is not all wasted. The problem is twofold, firstly it is not spent wisely or efficiently and is far too high.
Incidentally - its not just the 50p rate that needs dropping, the personal tax allowance needs to be restored in full to everyone earning over £100k as well. - Barry.
You have created a good life for you and your family, through hard work and perseverance and you have my respect for that. But before you pat yourself on the back and get your trumpet out again (must be worn out by now). You did not do it alone; many other people assisted you on your way to the top.
I am not jealous of you and I don’t admire you and I certainly would not like to be you.
As for me, the “them and us” scenario was started by Thatcher, calling me an “enemy within” when the only thing I was guilty of, was trying to keep my, profitable pit open.
You know what profitable means, don’t you Barry?
But back to your solution, giving businesses, banks etc, big cash boosts, incentives, to make them more profitable, will eventually mean, the economy will recover and the rest of us will be better off?
You’re the fantasist.
- If you think there is another way then you are the fantasist Gary.
Only the private sector can get us out of the mire. - The only fantasist is David Cameron and the rest of his cohorts. They have no clue, I'm afraid, about moving this country forward. Funny thing is that for all his green banks, green energy, green this, green that and the other he might as well be wearing a pair of loons and a big floppy hat - Hi ho silver lining and all that.
He is putting all his eggs into one basket and that is a very dangerous thing to do. Strangely enough by going green he is helping to pollute vasts tracts of China but out of sight out of mind eh? Not in my backyard darling.
As for the list above, there is not a snowballs chance of any of those items being turned into reality.
EU law will put paid to any significant changes to employment law, the 50% tax rate will stay and as for red tape, well isn't Mr. Cameron himself who has made red tape even longer with the passing of the equality act?
If the government carry on the course it is heading we are well and truly going to crash into that big concrete block at the end of the road. - The financial crisis is too big for any one country to resolve unilaterally.Obama is folowing Browns doctrine of 'spending' his way out of the crisis whilst the UK are cutting public spending too much and too quickly.Meanwhile we continue to import vast amounts from China on an underpriced Yuan and our exports drop as the pound gains on the dollar and euro.
I don't have the answers but nor does this govt,we cannot act alone but we need a common policy between the worlds big players - Marek - The British Government has to concern itself with the British economy and put that right. Obama is making some serious economic mistakes and the economy was always his weak point.
The simple arithmetical facts cannot be denied nor can simple financial common sense.
If you do not deal with the deficit quickly then the cuts later will need to be bigger still. The reason is simple, debt will just pile on debt, interest payments also pile up - the markets lose confidence and the cost of that borrowing increases still more.
The big problem is that Osborne, if anything, is not cutting enough. - Some thoughts on home ownership
1. There is a higher ratio of bedrooms to people in the UK since the Black Death.
2. There is a load of property inefficiently used. I myself have a five bed house with the children left home, my mother is wandering around on her own in a three bedroom home. We are both hanging on as the property represents mega assets which we hope to pass on to our children. One also has the fact that children think it some form of child abuse to be forced to share a bedroom with siblings (the first time I had a bedroom on my own was when I went to university) plus with the break up of marriages, not only does 'Dad' need a separate house but also a spare bedroom just in case the offspring visit.
3. If one looks at mortgages granted over the past few years very few are to first time buyers. Those that are first time buyers are to a large number 'helped' by their parents. This will get a lot worse as 'middle class' children end up with even larger student loans.
4. Many mortgages are 'buy to let' , and a large number of these by foreign nationals. (Three of my children rent in London privately and all of their landlords have, putting it bluntly, foreign sounding names).
I would suggest that we do not need any more building but rather more efficient use of present property.
1. Second home ownership should be heavily taxed.
2. As should buy to let.
There is only so much 'stuff' around in terms of housing. We need a system so more people might own it.
Were second home owners and buy to let to be nudged to reduce their portfolio they will seek other ways to invest their money. Putting it in to the Stock Exchange/ISAs or whatever would be a lot better for UK plc I would suggest? - Bob, some good information there but there are some problems with your proposals.
To start with not all those buying into the BtL market are foreign or people who were not born here. A lot of ethnically white British people have done this, often they are tradesmen and so on, by no means rich in any way.
First off regarding higher taxes on Buy to Let. A lot of people are using these in leu of pensions for their retirement. This is a questionable strategy and often ill conceived but it is a fact. To impose some kind of taxation surcharge on them would be morally wrong. OK, so it would justify the professional warnings I have been giving, plus justifying my recommendations for a more diversified portfolio of investments similar to what you suggest. But I know for a fact that if this happened a lot of very ordinary decent people who, however mistakenly, though they were doing the right thing, will be hit. To sell their portfolios would hit them with CGT and they would end up with a lower income as well. Not all of them would be right for equities and bonds. It would be completely wrong to somehow paint them as villains or anti-social in this.
You are right that great deal of the property bubble was contributed to by BtL. Overall though the problem was the economic policies of Brown and it arose because of the following:
...The discouragement of saving and investing with the reduction in the tax benefits of pensions and ISAs.
...The reduction in the levels of tax-free investment allowed when Brown abolished the old TESSA/PEP regime and replaced it with ISAs. Even now the level allowed for tax-free non-pension investment is lower than the old regime (comparision difficult but the calculation can be made over a 5 year period comparing todays ISA level with the TESSA/PEP level pre-1997).
... The Bank of England inflation brief that resulted in interest rates being held down lower than they should have for a lot longer. This devalued savings and made borrowing a lot more attractive, pushing up house prices.
Its a complex story but what should be done to correct it is:
...To encourage an economy based on savings and investment by increasing thresholds on non-pension saving.
...To restore a 20% tax credit on dividends paid by equities in both pensions and non-pension savings.
...To further liberalise the post-chrystalisation regime for pensions and enabling pensions to be intergenerational. In this way we start addressing the lack of pension provision that so blights many people 'from the top end' as well as the contribution side.
...To allow the housing free market to 'right itself' and to iron out some on the anomolies that have crept into this market over the last 13 years. Stamp duty rates being one. - Slap an extra tax on the buy to let market and guess who pays?
The tenant. - Up to a point you are correct Philip but it is a bit more complex than that and would depend on the nature of the tax (on capital or income) and the state of the housing rental market in the locality.
- on the subject of buy to let i doubt that additional taxation would be of help.
what is needed is some sort of legislation to ensure that dodgy tenants are not foisted on unsuspecting neighbours.
too many people with a spare few bob are quite happy to purchase properties, collect their rent from the tax payers and abdicate any responsibility from the misery their tenants inflict on people close by. - You speak as if bad landlords are the majority, Howard - that is not the case. Yes there are some that are bad but that is certainly not the majority.
- they are in a majority in my part of town barry, you cannot even find out who they are to complain to.
you only find out when a tenant absconds and they find the property wrecked.
i am fortunate that the people who let out the houses either side of me are very choosy who they have as tenants and keep in touch with me to find if there are any problems. - So - you know who all the landlords are all around you... You may never know anything at all about the good ones while the bad clearly get a 'profile'. I suspect Howard that your perception is not the full story. Bad tenants can adversely affect good landlords
- that is exactly my point barry, i and others do not know the landlords.
one house a year or so after being vacated, the landlord came to check the condition and found pipes and electrics damaged, plaster off of most of the walls, the downstairs ceiling had collapsed and countless other things vandalised.
cost him over 30 grand to put right, i have no sympathy. - It seems that sometimes howard you speak of landlords and other times tenants, its a bit confusing.
It may be that in your neck of the woods the majority of tenants are poor. This is because it is a low-rent area I suspect.
That is not the same as suggesting the majority of landlords are bad. - So you can say "the majority of tenants are poor"
but Howard cant say "the majority of landlords are bad"
No confusion there Barry - i have clearly said that the two landlords either side of me are excellent barry. accordingly their tenants are too.
nothing to do with the area being low rent.
there are good and bad tenants, good landlords attract the former, it is to their benefit at the end of the day.
as an example of a high rent area ask people who live in the taswell road area what they think of the big house in leyburne road converted in little boxes and rented out to assorted druggies and alkies. - Are you referring to the Homeless Hostel Howard .I do hope not some good work going on there under the remit of Porch Light .
- i cannot say susan, all i know is that residents have been up in arms about the behaviour of people in a house of multiple occupation.
hard to believe it is homeless people though, surely they would not want to end up on the streets again? - Gary - do put in the whole sentence in your quote..."""It may be that in your neck of the woods the majority of tenants are poor.""""
I was, of course, referring as well specifically to the points made by Howard and not making that point myself....
That is a very different in context and makes your point, well, pointless.
That said, I am even more confused by what Howard is trying to say now!!! Incidentally when I refer to 'low rent' - and I do have an idea of relative rentals in Dover, I am talking like for like and not comparing a terraced house with a bedsit conversion. - Incidentally the poor was not meant in a financial sense, but behaviourly.
- barry,they are one of the same.
- So Brian - that is what you believe then, that because someone has little money they behave badly. That is not necessarily the case as I find poor behaviour, like good behaviour, has notring to do with how much money someone has.
You owe a lot of people an apology. - barry for what.
- English comprehension is clearly not your strong then point Brian, re-read the last few exchanges between us slowly.
- barry,there is a quote going around at the moment,i think was started by mrs thatcher but dont qoute me on it,it go's somthing like this...and i qoute,an apolagy is a sign of weakness.... end of qoute.
- actually brian i heard that the other day, i think it related to that nice mr mubarak in egypt.
- is that so howard,must have lessons from our maggie then.lol.
- Barry I couldn't get exited about any green budget if it were behind me in a post office queue and jumped in ahead of me. To me it's all astrology anyhow. Most predictions sold to us by the experts, be they economic, financial, scientific, social, political have proved somewhat wide of the mark so I tend to take little notice of them and consign them as one to watch and tick them off as epicfail when, indeed, the inevitably do.
Take David Cameron as an example when he gave that speech recently talking up pharmas in the UK and specifically mentioning Pzifer as a shining example.
Hmmmn.
One would think that he would have some herbert with their ear to the ground advising him that plans were afoot to pull out but No they seemed singularly lacking in that respect - it had something of the Gordon Brown kiss of death about it where our ex-pm used to trot himself up and down the country shaking hands and proclaiming another British success ( usually with huge government grants) and then it transpired again and again that those companies went ti belly up.
It's bonkers really - a Tory government increasing taxes to 40% for thousands of workers, it just doesn't make sense to me.
If he is really serious about creating wealth and making this country an attractive place to encourage investors he would be better concentrating his fire on being a little more ruthless in this respect by, say, lowering the corporate tax rate, scrapping the 50% tax rate and undergoing a religious conversion, nay excorism, by excoriating all things green.
It's a tough world out there and India, China and other fast developing nations care not a tinkers cuss about such matters which is partly why they are racing ahead so fast with growth.
We are in danger of finding ourselves walking backwards towards the finishing line. - Philip - CT is being reduced, the 50p tax rate should be dropped, I have blogged about that before, it is purely political and will cost £5bn. I have also said that there must be massive cuts to enable us to compete bringing public spending down to under 30% of GDP (now 53%).
Public policy is government buy economic modelling and, yes, much of it is flawed and that is why it is constantly being reviewed and revised. But that does not stop it from being necessary.
As for Pfizer - why would they tell him? They made a commercial decision, a regretable one, but nevertheless it is a matter for them not governments.
The response to Pfizer is to reduce further such closures and to attact more inward investment by making this, once again, a business friendly environment. Again I have said what needs to be done, the direct opposite to the direction the last government travelled. - oooops by not 'buy economic modelling'...
- Question of the day.
Should we continue to hand out £1.5 Billion in subsidies to Prep Schools but cut subsidies to Rural Bus Services?
- It is up to the councils to determine their priorities as always. Education is important after all.
- Even more important question Gary - Should we still hand out £18 billion every year (official government figures) in order to meet the requirements of the climate change act or spend that on both schools and bus services?
Bear in mind that £18 billion is merely the tip of the iceberg after you take into account all the regulations that this sort of rubbish costs us all in terms of new building requirements as a very small example.
Add to that the scandal of subsidizing those wealthy enough to buy solar panels and wind turbines at the expense of those who cannot but still have to pay it makes a mockery of any percieved cuts this government wish to make.
Strange how this question remains unanswered every time I raise it here. - Ok Barry.
I could have picked on dozens of different cuts, Bus cuts, just happened to be the latest of a long list of cuts.
I will put it different then.
In today’s climate, considering all other cuts that have been made, why should we continue with handing out £1.5 Billion to privately owned prep schools?
- i am astonished that such a large amount went into private education from the taxpayer.
philip is spot on, while there is no proof that climate change is man made then no money should be thrown at it.
money spent on making the air cleaner and other environmental things i have no problem with. - Philip, I have to say I am not sure about why we have climate change and how or why serious problems are arising around the world. Ice caps are shrinking, weather is changing, foods, fuels and forests are disappearing, and they are facts.
I am however, all for wind turbines, I think they should go further and use tidal turbines instead of wind and they should incorporate desalination plants to them or alongside them, somehow, and I am for solar power, this natural power source must be better than Nuclear power and other’s.
- Source Gary?
Lets see more of the facts instead of jumping on what seems to be obvious but may not really be so. - Gary, a few facts. During the recent cold spell (global warming eh?) wind turbines did not spin. They tend not to during cold weather in the area in and surrounding our islands. In fact they could only produce less than 10% of their stated capacity but still they recieved massive subsidies from the government. Solar panels? - in the UK? something do do with the amount of sunshine here tells me they're not very efficient especially during night time hours. But again these recieve massive subsidies from the government.
Desalinisation plants require massive amounts of energy. Wind and solar when they do turn would require an area the size of Kent to run them.
FYI, the climate always changes without our help no matter what you see on Guardian tv, sorry the BBC.
Ice caps shrink and then they grow again and in fact are reaching their highs once again. Forests are disappearing but that's a completely different matter and does not affect the climate really. The UK used to be one big forest many centuries ago. Most forests are only a few thousand years old anyway.
The polar bear population has increased ten-fold over the past fifty years.
Nope these are the facts but we, the suckers who are told by our betters that it's all our fault are paying the price and the only ones getting rich are the money men and ironically big oil companies.
Nick Clegg's wife is doing pretty well out of it too as well as David Cameron's in-laws. John Gummer is doing extremely well out of it.
But this is the inconvenient truth that the coalition and the labour party as well as Caroline Green and others are doing their level best to keep from us.
Feel free to follow this religion but please don't ask me to pay for it. - Philip.
I did not mention global warming, I was careful to explain I do not know the cause of the anomalies, mainly to save you lambasting me but that did not work.
I also did not say turbines or solar panels were efficient, I said I preferred them to other fuels, my prerogative. I do believe that turbines and desalination plants will be powered by tides in the future, safer and cleaner than other fuels. I never read the Guardian, don’t watch much TV.
Tell the Eskimos the ice caps are not retreating, all sorts of mining are being carried out on newly exposed ground. More greedy prospectors who only care about money.
I am glad the polar bear numbers are increasing but it is a fact many other food species are disappearing fast.
Yes the rich are getting richer, I think we all need to take the blame for that.
We allow footballers to earn £300.000 a week and pay our nurses etc crap wages.
We have judges who tell paedophiles to buy their victim a cycle, to cheer them up.
We allowed a known terrorist into our country for a free operation, it goes on and on. This country has gone potty and we have allowed it to happen.
- Barry,
Same source as you but that’s the type of answer I have become to expect from you.
Are you saying that figure is wrong then? - Link please Gary...
Lets see it. - Gary, the icecaps are not melting. Check out the data.
Why would you prefer wind turbines or solar panels if you think that they were not efficent?
As for drilling in the Arctic what is wrong with greed? As the man said in the film "greed is good" and is the reason the human race has developed so dramatically for the good since we learned to walk. Without greed you get no vision, no growth and therefore no progress. People may not like it but it's the human condition and there's absolutely nothing we can do about it.
Socialism continues to try and always fails. - going off topic slightly, i was told that solar panels took about 25 years to pay for themelves.
i think they are for politicians that want to align themselves with fashionable green policies and people with money to burn.
i would be in favour of wind farms if the turbines were built in this country. - That's a good point Howard with the wind-farms, only, the present systems used are too fragile to operate in strong winds. I believe we need a new, more robust type of wind-turbine, that can run even in strong winds.
The rotating blades would have to be shorter and possibly built of a different material. The best place to put them would be adjacent to the coast, possibly on jetties running out to sea. - Every time you drive past a windmill (usually turning very slowly or not at all) or everytime you have guilt pangs just before retiring to bed so you find yourself switching off the standby buttton or everytime you congratulate yourself for turning on your new cfl lightbulb or even when you find yourself lugging a dripping black box across the carpet filled with empty cat food cans and spent tins of lager, consider this from July 2009.
"China's three biggest power firms produced more greenhouse gas emissions last year than the whole of Britain, according to a Greenpeace report published today".
And you still feel like you are making some sort of difference? - East Kent Future.
With the demise of Pfizer.Council services cuts,Job losses,Hugh impact Pending Deficit cuts,14,000 New Homes!!,Potential loss of economic benefit re.Dover Port etc.East Kent need to regroup.
It is indeed time to plan for this future.It is indeed time to make the enorous savings of merging the East Kent District Councils and that we plan for an East Kent Council.
- Barry.
I am the source, tell me if i am wrong or answer the question please.
Philip.
As I have said before I do not hold any thoughts of why these things are happening but denying they are happening is sheer folly. There are masses of proof on the internet. The only confusion is why it is occurring?
I told you why I would prefer turbines & solar panels. As for China, two wrongs don’t make a right and i am not surprised at your analogy of greed.
Alexander.
Is there a reason why turbines can’t be run by dropping the blades into the sea and be run by the tides? Obviously they would have to be able to run in two directions but surely the fact that tides run almost 22 hours a day would make them more efficient and more powerful, would it not?
- Gary - OK so yes you are wrong. You made it up then.
Can't direct me to an authorative source, so that is clearly the answer. - maybe try a face with a bit nip and tuck here and there,then and only then might pass as a attrative female.
- Barry,
You know full well the figures came from Kevin Maguire, Daily Mirror.
You will now disclaim his report as nonsense and avoid answering the question yet again, why do I bother?
- Garry, with the present technology at hand, tital energy is not practical, the infrastructure would cost too much, and the return in obtained electrical energy too little.
Wind-power to create electricity is the best solution, and to a lesser extent solar power. The latter requires a lot of expensive infrastructure, and would be more suitable in hot countries.
At the moment, wind-power is the best solutiuon as there would be an economic return for the invested expenses. Britain has plenty of wind, but there must be a change in the turbine system: at present the baldes are too long and fragile, and must be turned off in strong winds.
Robust blades, shorter in length and of a robust material (such as light metal) would obtain less electricity than the present versions with a low wind force, but being more economic to produce, the cost would level itself out by installing a higher number of them.
But more importantly, they would function in strong winds, and that would ultimately mean that they would produce more electricity. - Gary - well that says it all....
I did not know that and had assumed it was authorative.
Kevin Maguire/the Mirror.... - well I never. No wonder you were embarrassed to say.
Find out where he got that from (if anywhere), find out its context and lets see what the real facts are.
The Mirror, indeed. If thats where you get your news from then no wonder you come out with what you do. - disgusting lady, you are dead right barry.
incidentally do you have her contact details, for the cost of one port and lemon she sounds good value. - No, sorry Howard - I lost her number years ago.... anyway she will settle for a half pint, no need to splash out on a port and lemon....
- PS - what is Andrew Neill doing to her in that last photo?
Answers on a postcard..... - calls for a caption competition.
mrs bercow "i wasn't expecting anything like that from a small chap like you john" - As expected Barry, no answer, well swerved yet again, when will I learn.
I am not embarrassed.
Unfortunately neither are you, I know this is your blog with your choice of topics but you should have the decency to respond in a proper manner, otherwise what is the point of having your own blog?
Don’t bother answering that one, I’ve lost interest.
- Thanks for info, all makes sense, I’m sure things will progress in the future, I would certainly prefer to look at wind farms than nuclear power stations.
- thats for Alexander !!!!!!
- gary
barry has asked for the source of your figures on prep school funding, you have not done so only mentioning a tabloid journalist. - Very interesting blog there on Sally Bercow. Yes she is certainly the much talked about girl of the moment in political circles. The tabloids love her as she can guarantee a whiff of scandal every time she opens her gob. She is like our very own Berlesconi..or maybe perhaps not quite...but in similar territory if the stories be true. She was on televison here the other day waffling away in the background, I should have paid more attention to her.
While Bercow himself may not have the dignified presence of Speakers from the past ie Speaker Thomas he seems to be doing okay. But...the Tories have had it in for him from day one. I cant quite fathom out why. He came from their own ranks. The previous unfortunate in the post Michael Martin, he of the expenses scandal fame, was from the Labour background and I could understand Tory disgruntlement then.
But poor cow Bercow was hammered from the off. Why? - Bercow has never been popular among Conservatives, he is deeply distrusted.
Nominally he may have been a Conservative but only got the Speaker role through the support of Labour politicians who were playing a childish game. - "John, I'm sor....."
"Order!"
"But you must see....."
"Order, Order!"
"You're being perfectly beastly John and I........"
"Order! Order! Order!"
"Please just one last chan........"
"ORDER!!!!!!!!!!" - barry,toys,throwing,from prams spring to mind.
- Howard.
If that is your attempt at humor, you failed.
Barry.
I presume then that you are saying the figure of £1.5 Billion given to privately owned prep schools is incorrect, so could you give me the correct figure then, please?
- Gary - you have made a statement quoting a figure given by a third rate tabloid journalist and Labour devotee.
It is up to you to justify that figure ot withdraw it and admit that you have made an error.
Howard was merely pointing out the facts Gary. - Gary
Thought you might find the following info interesting..
Fee Or Free? Where cabinet ministers were educated
David Cameron, Eton, £30,000 a year boarding (private)
George Osborne, St Paul's boys school, £18,000 a year day (private)
Nick Clegg, Westminster, £20,300 a year (private)
Theresa May, St Juliana's Convent for Girls, Begbroke (mixed)
William Hague, Wath-upon-Dearne Comprehensive (state)
Michael Gove, Robert Gordon's College, £9,700 a year day (private)
Vince Cable, Nunthorpe Grammar (state)
Andrew Lansley, Brentwood District (direct grant)
Danny Alexander, Lochaber (state)
Liam Fox, St Bride's High (state)
Ken Clarke, Nottingham High (direct grant)
Chris Huhne, Westminster, £20,300 a year day (private)
Jeremy Hunt, Charterhouse £29,800 a year boarding (private)
Philip Hammond, Shenfield (state)
Eric Pickles, Greenhead Grammar (state)
Caroline Spelman, Herts and Essex High for Girls (state)
Iain Duncan Smith, Conway Naval School (state)
Oliver Letwin: Eton, £30,000 a year boarding (private)
Baroness Warsi, Birkdale High (state)
George Young: Eton, £30,000 a year boarding (private)
Francis Maude Abingdon, £13,800 a year day (direct grant)
Dominic Grieve, Westminster, £20,300 a year day (private)
- gary
i thought my statement was perfectly clear.
kindly explain where you see the humour? - Still no answer then, not suprised.
If my figure is wrong, why not give me true figure, thats what i have asked of you, its as simple as that, why no answer? - The forum is great, figures quoted without source and challenges made.
Expert advice on wind generators, interesting to see the writers qualifications in engineering and aerodynamics,
Keep up the entertainment chaps it's great reading, wish I woz as clever as you guys! - gary
i took the trouble of checking out the "daily mirror" website.
the claim about prep schools was a throwaway comment on a blog.
there was no indication where the figures came from.
this is common with many bloggers, the figures may well be true but there can be no credibility unless the source is identified. - So I can’t use tabloids, I have to be qualified in any subject I want to talk about and I can’t expect a sensible answer to genuine questions. Sarcasm from others is fine though, you win Barry, no more from me. Luckily, I do have some Tory mates, who will give me a straight answer.
- Jimmy S are you suggesting that everyone should somehow earn a qualification about whatever subject we care to discuss?
Hmmn, let's see presumably we are unqualified to vote in general and local elections unless we hold a degree in politics?
How about our opinion on last nights television? A masters degree in television criticism?
How about proping up the bar in the local and someone raises the subject of how the last government has left our children and grandchildren much the worse off by their inept economic policies (if you can realistically call them policies without laughing too much) should we all have gone to the London business school?
No of course not but that's exactly what those who preach to us in the media and by politicians fear the most - information.
So yes indeed I, for example, feel more qualified to speak on issues such as energy because I have found valuable information on the internet written by those who know a little more about these things than a mere bog standard government minister or Daily Mirror hack.
- Philip, I'm not suggesting people need a degree to comment, but it would be nice if they provided factual information when making very specific claims or statements.
I'm sure people who have studied for many years on specific technical subjects would find it offensive for others to make sweeping inaccurate statements about their field work. This is very objective subject matter.
Your point about commenting on the economic situation is true because people have direct experience of those sorts of things, so can comment about the imapct on themselves. This is a very subjective issue.
My comment was about the objective issues. - Gary - you don't have to be an expert but if using figures you need to use a source that is authorative, such as perhaps the ONS. A tabloid journalist is not such a source, certainly not such a low-brow tabloid editor such as you used. By all means quote a journalist if a matter of opinion, but fact and figures are another matter. Decent journalists, on their blogs, will provide a link to their sources that can be followed, if a link is not provided then you should treat the information as highly suspect.
You got yourself into trouble and was embarrassed to admit who the source was until pushed into it. So you know yourself how suspect that source is.
The truth is that I suspect he may be quoting the value that such schools get from their tax position as charities and knowing him it is likely to be highly exaggerated anyway. That is purely speculation, I do not know that it is tax relief, of course. If that then it is not the same as a subsidy and that charitable tax relief is very cost effective. Without it many parents with children at such schools might have to fall back onto State provision at much higher cost. Some such schools may also have to close with resulting loss of jobs. - I think private schools deserve more investment from the taxpayer.
- Hmm - Cogito ergo sum
- Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur
- It would have been impressive had you used the correct quote
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur" (Anything said in Latin, sounds profound)
Rather than the commercially used
"Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum sonatur" (Anything said in Latin, sounds lofty) - grammatically suspect
But then as you have said
" I, for example, feel more qualified to speak on issues (such as energy) because I have found valuable information on the internet."
My comment on experts rings true. - Barry,
Had I been embarrassed about the source, I would not have presented it. I wanted to know if you thought it was right to continue with cuts such as those, when cuts to just about everything else was being made.
You knew that and the actual figure was irrelevant or where it came from.
I have tried several ways, to get you to give an honest answer, none have worked, rendering your blog pointless to me, Don’t reply.
Philip.
I think Jimmy just called you a dictum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Gary - you made a fool of yourself quoting such a source and unable to substantiate it. No matter how you dress it up you gave a figure and was unable to justify, quantify or provide a reputable source for it. After some time you reluctantly admitted where you got it from. What is pointless is discuss this further with you. If you want some serious political discussion then you need to sharpen up and be more choosy what data etc you use. I am not going to just play your daft game on your terms.
- Jimmy, anyone can go on answers.co m, as I suspect you have in order to present a counter argument to the Latin quotation I used and yet you seem to decry the use of the internet in order to discover facts.
- Sorry don't assume every one does as you do.
I spoke to my neice who is studying Latin.
This is about knowing what supports a specific not simply skimming a subject and claiming a deep understanding of what is often a complicated technical subject.
As a point of clarity I did not decry the use of the internet. It is a wonderful tool used in the right hands. It also abounds with useful information. But, by the same token, it abounds with mis information. In order to use it wisely you have to have a base of knoweledge on a subject to start with.
I would be happy to debate more but it seems pointless.
If you want to chat about something subjective go ahead.
- barry
you mention that there would be no part for the unions to play in wage negotiations with the health and eduction services.
i read that the demise of national collective bargaining simply meant that each region would be autonomous and pay would be decided on comparative wage rates locally. - Howard - you have misinterpreted what I have said. Read again, I was agreeing with the IoD regarding the end to national bargaining.
That said I would like the Unions dumped out of the public sector, as they have been in most of the private sector, but that it a different argument and not part of the IoD suggestions on which this blog is about. - Well it's goodbye to any thought of the UK having it's own independent energy sector. Now that (eurosceptic) Dave has agreed to the European supergrid. Eurosceptic Dave, who has told us all that he will refuse to cede any more power to Europe without a referendum we all knew he was lying through his whitened teeth but we didn't for a moment think that he literally meant power ie. electricity.
But, of course, we are all getting used to this by now with Brown's refusal to give us a referendum on the Lisbon treaty and now Eurosceptic Dave doing exactly the same.
So whatever the institute of directors say it's all the same old same old.
Of course new regulations and laws will have to be introduced in order that each and every parish of the superstate will behave in a way that the regulators dictate. So planning laws, how much we are charged for energy, more climate myth regulations, cross-border regulations and other orders will be heading this way.
The system will rely heavily on wind power to expect thousands more bird choppers in a place near you and expect your wallet to weigh substantially less.
Very powerful people ain't they the environmental and energy lobbies?
So now you know how Eurosceptic Dave is going to pay for the big society which is another way of saying "Sack people and get the volunteer mugs in".
You couldn't make it up. - interesting post as always philip, must comment on the last bit about the big society.
when dave spoke at conference it went down like president mubarak doing a stand up routine in tahrir square.
he knows very well that with the lifting of the retirement age there will be even less volunteers than there are now. - Thanks for those kind words Howard. This is why I keep banging on about this issue. It encompasses everything - if you like all life is there because it (as an issue) highlights the human condition. Scares, panic, the end of the world as we know it, quackery, greed, big money, recieved wisdom replacing independent thought, politics in general, lies and more damn lies - it's all there in this one important issue.
We like to consider ourselves so modern, so sophisticated, so intelligent and yet we are no different than our forebears sitting round the fire with our heads filled with superstition and fear until Grooffe from the next cave down fills our heads with stories and tells us how his prayers will save us all if we give him half of our fatted calf.
Anyhow, this issue of climate change and the Tories mantra about the big society will in years to come be seen in the same way that multiculturalism as a policy has been so discredited by non other than Diesel Dave, sorry biofuel Dave.
This particular story has conveniently been passed over by most of the mainstream press which is a shame because the implications of the agreement will have enormous effects for everyone in the UK for many years to come. - barry
you must be the only person that believes that the yellows will ever take over from the reds.
even without taking into account their recent series of betrayals they are and always have been a party of protest. their core support actually prefer things to be like that. - Howard - that is why I am saying Clegg must get a grip. He would fail in his patriotic duty if he did not displace Labour as the main opposition party.
Even I accept that it would be wrong and, indeed bad, if the Conservatives were in power forever with no viable alternative government.
Labour simply cannot be trusted in power so an alternative is needed, so it falls on the third party to replace them.
I am not saying they will succeed and rather doubt they will have what it takes to do so but they should try.
To be frank, I would prefer UKIP to be the main opposition party and to see an overall shift to the right in attitudes and politics in this country.
Sadly that will not happen so it is Labour that must be replaced and the LDs are best placed to do that. - barry
the electorate is on the whole conservative with a small "c".
they like the idea of a blue or red government irrespective of their policies.
for instance in 1997 and since the yellows have delivered a radical manifesto more suited to traditional red voters. result they end up 3rd each time.
ukip will never be an alternative government it is not their aim.
not much of an alternative anyway, the only real difference to the blues is their euro scepticism. - Howard - that is the point I am making.
Things must change, Labour in every single term of office it has had has been a disaster, every time ending in economic failure, and that is only their most obvious failure.
Things have to change, they cannot be trusted ever to govern again and we need a different opposition party.
You have said exactly why Clegg must pull his finger out.
UKIP are an irrelivance - the Conservatives will eventually be the Party that will rid us of the EU as the only true Eurosceptic major Party. - disagree barry, if clegg tried to move his party forward the members would not allow it.
i watched ed b*lls earlier on the box, a real pitbull!! the yellows would never have a strong debater like that.
a lot of people would like to see the blues driven from the political scene, that will never happen either.
i think the balance is right with the reds and blues taking turns, with small victories every now and then from the fringe parties to keep the main parties in their place. - The difference is Howard - track records. Labour cannot possibly have a worse one.
Politics need a left and right, the current contender for the left is a utter failure in government and cannot be trusted.
We need a complete re-alignment of politics and Labour to be consigned to the dustbin of history as a failed experiment where they deserve to be. There was one a hundred years ago and it is time for another.
As for Ed Balls, balls by name and ball-up by nature. The man is an ignorant thug who cares nothing for the truth and understands nothing about the economy. He was the man behind Brown and the architect of economic collapse, even before he became an MP. - Barry is right on this matter. When really important issues, such as the future of our energy is discussed at high level you must expect the best, those whom have experience and are level-headed enough to steer the good ship United Kingdom to a safe destination.
Which is why, for example, when such weighty issues are being discussed the Tories choose the best such as those listed below.
This from the Houses of Parliament's own website where experts give their expertise over for analysis into the shale gas enquiry:
At 9.45 am
■Nigel Smith, Geologist, British Geological Survey, and
■Professor Richard Selley, Petroleum Geologist, Imperial College London
At 10.45 am
■Jenny Banks, Energy and Climate Change Policy Officer, WWF, and
■Professor Kevin Anderson, Tyndall Centre, University of Manchester.
And here where evidence is being heard regarding the electricity market:
Energy and Climate Change
10.00 am Room 19 (private) 10.15 am (public)
Subject: Electricity Market Reform.
Witnesses: Riverstone, Citigroup Global Markets, Virgin Green Fund, and Climate Change Capital; RSPB, Greenpeace, WWF, and Friends of the Earth (at 11.15 am).
So you see, groups such as the RSPB, that highly respected research group who can tell us all a thing or two about whether or not we should be going down the route of nuclear, coal, oil and gas or renewables is amongst other experts in the field such as greenpeace and the world wildlife fund, amongst others, are there fighting our corner so that the lights will remain on.
Good to know the coalition are privy to such emminent expertise don't you think?
Sleep well tonight and don't have nightmares.
What was that I read earlier about economic failure?
- barry,in your dreams,labour will be back in power soon to sort out the tory mess.
- You got that the wrong way around Brian.
It has always fallen on the Conservatives to sort out the mess left behind by Labour - that has happened after every single term of Labour office. - barry,tend to disagree labour gets it right.
- LOL - its the way you tell 'em Brian....
What do they get right exactly? - barry,scoff all you like and mark my words labour willbe back in power sooner than you think.
- Yes the AV system seems a recipe for welded together unholy coalition for evermore. The Liberals have been banging on ad nauseum about 'proportional representation' for years. As I understand it AV is nearly PR but not quite. gawd knows life's too short to care...but suffice to say that the current governments arranged marriage is not a happy one and any further prospect of coalitions of these types repeating themselves year after year is not a savoury prospect.
However the ugly genie is out of the bottle for the Libdems...never again, under an AV system anyway, will they be able to make outrageous promises and pledges that they never could or intend to keep. The electorate has finally twigged on that one.
Although at one time I did think a change would be useful in this modern age...I have now slumped back into a preference for the two party system..ie first past the post. - i am one that is in favour of the alternative voting system.
most of us vote for the party that we think will do the least damage. i would like the chance to vote for first and second.
the big two have had it too easy gaining power with less than 40% of the vote, they would have to work a lot harder to gain power.
on the subject of confusion it is not in the league of what is coming up in may. i will be asked to vote for 3 district councillors and 4 town equivalents. - Can you imagine voting for your preferred political party and finding more weirdos like Caroline Lucas being elected?
Nah, stick with things as they are, however imperfect. - philip,what ever way we end up voting you still get weirdos voted in.look at forrst chump and his pals fo instance.
- She is weird Philip! But is she really any weirder than our former PM, Gordon Brown?
I agree with your sentiments but lets not mix up AV with the even worse PR systems. PR is where you vote for a Party and end up with whatever MP the Party decides to put top of their list.
AV is not that, you will still have an individual to vote for but even so there can still be some idiotic anomalies. If the Raving Monster Loony gets eliminated first their voters will get a second say with their second preferences counted first - it seems to me like giving more power to those mentally less well equipped to use it sensibly. - Good morning each and Barry.
I have worked in the public sector and what is said there must then be in line with what is said elsewhere.
The public.
What are they for? Just what is the point of having them when all they do is interfere with a chaps day to day doings. And as for elections. It is just as well that more and more of 'them' get it and do not bother 'us' with such a thing as the voting habit.
Democracy and all this for-the-people-by-the-people guff : what has that ever done for 'us', or them come to that?
What we should press for, new-fangled idea or no, is an hereditary ruler, but who would vote for that?
This means WAR!
As it is the twenty-first century why not be civil about it?
I know...
Instead of employing armaments, lest somebody be hurt (that somebody could be you...or even me). Let us throw bits of paper at one another and have a simple mark of some sort upon each slip of paper, for identification purposes only, and count-up the score at the end of the battle to determine which camp is the Victor: that should do the trick.
Oops. I just spotted the flaw. This proposal, for the sake of personal safety, looks likely to involve the the p-public.
Back to the drawing board.
P.S.
Good piece by CE (and comments) in The Guardian today.
I have not as yet checked out the front page here to see how things are going locally though.
[did you spot the capital 'V'?] - barryw
it looks like this is another subject that we can agree on.
the present system although not perfect is fairer that the above system where you lose control of where your vote ends up.
of course this move is one by the lib dems in the hope of gaining more seats, even this probably won't save them from losing lots seats, and i hope cameron gives his party a free vote to allow this to be kicked into touch - looks like the establishment i.e. barry and keith do not like the thought of other parties having a say in things.
to me it is quite simple, if parties like the greens and ukip get 5% of the popular vote they should have 5% representation in the commons. - AV will not give you that Howard. In fact it will mean more dominance by the big three and will make it even harder for minorities to get a toehold, a good thing that and it might be an argument for AV, except it will mean less say by the electorate in what government they get and more coalitions producing government that satisfy nobody.
- Got to disagree with you Howard. If parties like the greens and ukip get 5% of the vote then they are obviously doing something wrong be it their policies (the greens), the gulf between what they say and what they actually do (definitely the greens) and the perception in peoples minds about the mindset of the party (in the greens case the fact that they are in they seem to be unbalanced).
Take a look at Ireland where the greens (yes them again) held the balance of power and were considered the kingmakers so both sides has to grovel in order to get their policies through.
- philip
surely it should be up to the two established parties to present a manifesto and show enough committment enabling one of them to get 51% of the vote? - Howard -more easily said than done. Dont you think that every party tries to do just that at every election....
Lets not be naive. - As I have said before UKIP is a new party and it all takes time to build up a party and we are doing very well and we do have some very good policys for the UK,and it is not all about geting out of the EU.
- after this evening's news that the blue peers reneged on a deal over the alternative voting system i doubt that the proposed bill of rights will see the light of day.
lord pantsdown was clearly incensed about the issue. - baz;
im getting a little concerned(or maybe my tablets are waring off lol)
but i agree with you - keith
of course you and barry agree on this subject, it means that each of your major parties have to convince less than 2 out of 5 of the electorate to gain power.
any change would mean that you would both have to work harder to get the necessary votes. - howard
it's not correct, when ii vote for say gwyn prosser thats where i want my vote to remain win or lose
little more to it - lots more keith, every vote should count for something.
it is totally unfair that a significant number of people vote and get no representation.
if it means a coalition so be it. - howard;
but i dont vote labour to allow the monster raving loony party a seat - strange comment keith, other people vote, their views are just as important as anyone elses.
- Keith - Reading what he is saying I really dont think that Howard has really grasped what AV is, the electoral effect and impact of the change.
Howard, you may support a PR system (I dont) but that is not what you get with AV and is not what you are suggesting it is in your comments. - well baz; ainnt it nice we can agree lol
- I'm halfway through Newsnight watching the AV special debate. I'm even more against this stupid idea than I ever was.
Never in a million years did I ever think that I would agree with John Prescott but there's a first for everything I suppose. - Oh my God. I must have a lie down. For a brief while I actually found myself caring about the voting system in this country. Something's wrong. Something is really wrong. Whatever the outcome We still face the prospect of a bunch of clowns in government.
- Yes Keith - it is, but I am sure we can find something to disagree on again soon......
- it seems that the av may come about,acording to sky news there will be a referendum on may 5th.not long to wait then to find out what the public realy thinks.
- There was a debate on Newsnight last night and if waffled along in a totally lukewarm manner. They devoted the whole of their programme to it but this is basically a referendum that nobody wants.
They explained how AV works which was useful...for those that remember, it was the way the labour party did their leadership contest. They keep shedding the lowest one from the bottom of the list, their votes getting dispersed amongst the other candidates, until they have the last man standing.
But the whole thing will be hard pressed to get much of a voting turnout on the day. One person asked how much all this was costing in a time of austerity but no politician was prepared to give a straight answer. Now there's a surprise!
This whole political episode is of Libdem doing. They insisted on it as part of their coalition partnership agreement thingy.
The only qualms I have about the first past the post system is in the safe seats situation, your vote is wasted if you vote for a non safe party/candidate. For example vote Labour in a Tory safe seat and your vote is lost. - baz;
im sure we will
the subject of hanging we wont ever agree on
but whilst we agreeing suppose nice change - If a British Bill of Rights is introduced, and counters the EU human rights law, then it would imply a clashing of institutions: those of Britain agaisnt those of the EU.
This would be an interesting precedent, and would no doubt be interpreted world-wide as a back-hander from Britain capable of knocking down quite a few of the EU stars!
Large crowds will gather to cheer us on! - Alexander - you have got it wrong. The European Convention of Human Rights and its Court are nothing to do with the EU.
Pity we cant taint the EU with the ECHR but it is a fact. - Cant seem to make the link in the blog work - you need to copy and paste it into the browser...
- So how can Brussels become the capital of Britain and Europe, if the Belgians haven't even got a government of their own?
- i thought that belgium was splitting into 3 anyway, should confuse the issue even more.
- Far be it from me to criticise Alexander's perception or Belgium but it does have a government (see wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgium/Government) and has had one since 1831. Shortly after becoming an independent state.
Perhaps Alexander was thinking of Normandy? - The issue of splitting seems to be a constant background in Belgium, and is mirrored in the political parties and their forming of a government.
There are three geographic entities in Belgium each with their own parliament: the Flemish, the Walloon and the much smaller German area.
But Brussels, traditionally in the Flemish area, has a large Walloon population in the city-centre with many Flemish suburbs, and seems to be the cause of stale-mate in the issue of administrative separation.
I recently read that the absence of a government in Belgium is preventing that country's financial situation from being addressed, and that this may be one of the causes for a possible Belgian bail-out.
However, as a bail-out cannot come about without a government agreeing to tough austerity measures and presenting a plan on how to manage the country's financial affairs in order to repay the borrowed money with interest, the whole question of Belgium's economy is in limbo.
It is irony that Brussels is the capital of the EU, and the situation is probably embarassing for the EU Parliament and Commission.
The Belgium situation seems to be further evidence that the days of centralised EU administration over many countries are coming to an end, as even a centralised State-system in one country cannot work properly.
- The abridged version of Alexanders post is that they do in fact have a government.
The alledged fact that it is indecisive and/or cannot reach agreement is the possible reason for some of it's problems. - But David Cameron is fully supportive of this legislation. In the same way that he is a committed europhile, although he says otherwise, he sees this act as something good and in fact will take the legislation further.
Look at his track record on other such socialist constructs such as environmental law which he intends to take to new heights.
I think you're whistling in the wind on this one and are out of step with tory high command. - Philip - you are totally wrong on both counts.
Leading a coalition means he has to defer on some issues to the coalition partners. On that basis he has to make the 'right noises' which, in respect of the Libdem side of the equasion, means making the wrong noises on policy. - will dave do anything about that ludicrous rule?
i doubt it, i cannot see cleggy or his chums agreeing with ms harperson.
bad behavious i bad behaviour, whoever it comes from.
i saw a form recently that asked for one's ethnic origin, one of the options was "irish traveller". - Howard - this particular issue is not some for which 'Dave' can do anything, likewise the LibDems.
For him and them, the question is the bigger picture - should we get rid of the foolish legislation and idiotic quango responsible for this 'guidance'?
My answer is yes, I suspect DC would go along with that but he has to take account of the LDs and they would not. This is a massive fault-line if the coalition but, it being a side issue, compared to the all important economic issue, is not something that will be allowed to create a problem.
The only way this legislation can be done away with is via an overall Conservative majority, hopefully with lots of 'traditional right' MPs, to bring it to a head. Which would almost certainly be the case if able to govern without the LDs. - Whenever I comment on this blog invariably I recieve the response "you are totally wrong".
Barry, I think you've worn out the idea that we have to keep the liberals happy for the sake of the coalition we're all gonna die if the coalition breaks up blah blah blah. It's a well worn out excuse and should be consigned to the recycle bin.
While the coalition carrys on happily passing this law and that regulation which creates a stranglehold on day to day life and competitive business practice you have to ask yourself to what end is this bringing us to?
It seems to me that it's the idea of power for the sake of it that both the liberals and the conservatives carry on doing what they do but blame the other side for not remaining true to their policies.
In the meantime really, really important things are happening which bypass the average person but have an immense impact on our future be it our relationship with Europe or the long term outlook for the UK amongst other issues.
As for the bigger picture, there is no bigger picture - it doesn't exist 'cept in the imagination of those who fall for the dubious charms of David Cameron and his newly chosen spin doctor.
We may as well wait for the second coming than for an overall conservative majority because the way things are going people will turn away from the tories in their droves if they find themselves voting conservative-lite which, in essence, is the same as voting for labour.
You only have to witness the utter fiasco surrounding the forest sell off issue to see the effect a few treehugging clowns and minor celebs can have on tory policy to see that they don't really cut it. Imagine how they will try to put forward more meaty measures if the threat from a few dozen twitterers and lefty bloggers threaten to make them swoon like a group of maiden aunts at the sight of a piano leg. - all a bit of a smokescreen to me, dave knows he needs to keep his back benchers onside, getting rid of this legislation would be one way to placate them.
what would the yellows do?
the likelihood is that they will sulk but go along with it, there is no way that they would want a general election now. - Philip - your problem is an unwillingness to understand the dynamics and politics of a coalition. That is why I sometimes tell you you are wrong.
You may be surprised at how much I actually agree with you - the difference is that I understand and appreciate the political realities and I am willing to compromise on some issues for the bigger picture.
Howard - you underestimate the self-dectructive tendancies on some LDs.... The whole thing is a balancing act. - with regard to the coolition, it is tearing itself apart.
There is no doubt any party would prefer outright control, but the tories aint popular enough to achieve it, and will run to the lib dems im sure again
im glad labour stood back.
without doubt theres infighting between tory and tory
lib dem and tory
and lib dem and lib dem
and cameron and cleggy are attempting to put sticky plaster over the major hole, and i will all end in disaster.
lets hope we dont have to suffer much more - I wouldn't say that I am unable to understand the dynamics of running a coalition, rather I would suggest that we both are unable to understand the dynamics of running a coalition, neither of us having any experience in these matters. But to suggest that in order to give the impression that we should stay out of such matters and leave it to those who know better is hardly an argument to undermine criticism of the antics these two boys get up to.
It's not as if they themselves have any experience either and I would put it to you that indeed they are making somewhat of a hash of the whole experiment. No I'll go a litte further than that and say they give good coalitions a bad name.
What, apart from street riots, cuts (sorry increased public spending), more punitive taxes, more U-turns than one sees at the traffic lights outside the leisure centre and broken promises has this particular administration given us?
- Good evening each and Barry.
Yes, let's hope that, "we don't have to suffer much more". It is the sole point of comfort at present that they suffer while we too suffer. Philip, you have it more or less correct. There is indeed no bigger picture. These right-wing tories will only have the slightest chance of an improved tory vote IF they engineer much private enterprise success. If there is not a great deal of improvement on show come the election (whenever that will be) the lamentable tory and liberal vote at that election will leave us all distraught with the thought of the return of the last bunch of wasters.
Oh, yes. It is we that suffer and shall suffer come what may. As things stand at any rate.
The time is ripe for Democracy in the UK. If the down-trodden of Lybia can demand it so too can we. - As long as the population don't demand another labour government Tom. Now that would be a disaster.
- philip,apart from the tory goverment would you like to take over from the torys.maybe a communist one or a dictatership evan.
- Yes I was wondering that Brian. Phillip doesnt like the Tories, he certainly doesnt like the Greens, not sure how he is about the Libdems but wont like their green policies, and now gadzooks doesnt like Labour either !!?
So come clean Phillip...what sort of government are you after? There is a chance Gaddafi could be free in the next few weeks!!lol
- Put simply I'm an old fashioned Conservative party voter.
- Better explained as a traditional Conservative, like me as a matter of fact....
- So, gentlemen. The tories are as good as it can possibly get? How smug is that? You have 'us' where you want us, in dire need....again!
Little wonder then that nothing seems to work out for the best whether it be Blue or Red. For what is of paramount importance is that the choice should only be between frying-pan and fire. - Ah...an old fashioned traditional Conservative Phillip. Yes I understand the notion of traditional conservative, but wonder whether and where they belong any more. Guys like Norman Tebbit and indeed our very own BarryW himself, seem to be homeless in the modern age, out on a limb, lost in the wilderness !
The new Conservatives are young boys like Boy Dave and Boy George and they seem to embrace all things modern such as the European Union, the inclusion of Turkey in same, and all sorts of stuff that makes the traditionalists flip over in their graves..the ones that are dead anyway.
Many of the traditionalists like Lord Pearson have sauntered gaily towards UKIP and embraced this modern encasement of the traditional ideal!
Are BarryW and Phillip closet UKIPs ! lol ??
- Hardly PaulB - I feel quite at home thank you. DC is no Europhile and is much closer to Norman Tebbit than you may think...
As for the EU being 'all things modern' no, that does not compute. The EU is an old fashioned top-down big government concept that should have been demolished along with the Berlin Wall and the old USSR.
Do not be fooled by the 'marraige of convenience'...........
As for closet UKIP - more like UKIP are 'closet Tories....' people who are unable to accept the political reality placing their rightful hatred of the EU before political common sense. - that bit at the top of the blog reminds me of listening to harold wilson uttering "13 years of tory misrule" every day on the t.v. and radio. drove me mad.
mind you he did get elected that year. - PaulB, nothing ages faster than modernism otherwise we men would still be sporting loons and flowery shirts.
Political modernism or what is laughably called "progressive politics" is an oxymoron, a complete and utter contradiction in terms.
It is nothing more than a vacuous advertising, middle management buzzword slogan for political naivetists (I think I just invented a new word) invented by those befreft of political ideas.
There is nothing new in politics - nothing.
As far as Norman Tebbit is concerned in my opinion he represents the true face of conservatism. A very brave and intelligent man by anyone's standard. Of course those whose political outlook is overly affected by Spitting image or the endless hoards of lefty political commedians and talking heads on the BBC (whooa another oxymoron, lefty commedians) who only have to shout "MARGARET THATCHER" to guarantee a laugh or two from the audience Norman Tebbit will remain merely a superficial representation of their shallow thoughts on the subject of politics in the UK today.
In order to demonstrate how progressive or modern politics is as fickle as one's taste in home decoration I give you non other than Tony Blair.
Once he was the Messiah, the annointed one who gave us cool Britainia and all that. He was the saviour, a man whose time had come. A man for all seasons. A man to lead us to a new age of enlightenment.
Now he's considered by most sensible people and those who fell for this line with hook and sinker as a complete and utter failure responsible for........well you know the rest.
Gentleman, I give you modern politics. Raise your glasses. - philip
i shudder to think what the "true face of conservatism" if lord tebbit represents it. only yesterday he visited merthyr tydfil, a town that is the epitome of rundown with very few people working.
he repeated his vacuous statement of about 30 years ago telling people they should up sticks and go and find a job. being the dinosaur that he is that he forgot that because of the massive shortage of social housing the old "council swap" hardly occurs anymore. should the victim be a property owner the chance of selling up is miniscule and even if they managed that the price would be so small as to be useless if they try to move to a thriving area.
it is a feature of the third world that people move from areas that are poor to the capital city and have to live in shanty towns. that is exactly what will happen if anyone takes the advice of the old duffer.
taking it a step further say there were many vacancies in an urban area, wage rates would come down once employers discovered that they could employ desperate people on the cheap, hence social disorder.
- paulb
I think your post hit the nail on the head.
The tory party is running out of time and had there little dream time, now the party is waiting to lurch to the right.
of course as you say paulb barry must feel homeless when his party moved so far away from the right just to get elected
and baz must be realy worried if cameron survives as the party will be in open warfare
the likes of tebbitt already speaking out, and wont help the tories
cracks are opening up
- You have a very wild imagination Keith, spurred by your hopes.
Howard - I was at the Conference when Norman Tebbit gave that speech and he referred to his father who, when he lost his job 'got on his bike and found work'. The left hate that because they would only urge such people to claim benefits and become parasites on the State rather than look after themselves and their families.
Fortunately, there are still plenty of people out there who have the pride and self-respect to do exactly the kind of thing Norman said and, in fact, I know two people who, since Christmas have done just that. A 68 year old made redundant as a chef who is now driving a taxi and a 21 year old who was laid off as a builder who has been able to keep himself working on a self-employed basis since.
They shame all the witless and lazy whom the left love to throw money at to maintain them in a worthless lifestyle. - barry
different issue altogether unless the two people you mention have left their home and moved away.
the builder will always find some sort of work, if he is good, word of mouth will keep him in work. if the chef had redundancy pay the obvious thing for him to do at that age would be to plough it into something like a cab. - Barry W,
Can we assume you advise your clients, how to avoid taxes, or rather how to dodge paying any tax at all?? And do you use the same criteria as Barclays bank which as we all know managed to pay less than one per cent tax on a trading account of over 11 billion pound profit?? very good example of governance of tax policy you would surely agree?? - you're right barry doesn't say much for george, gordon kept it at 40% while he was at the exchequer.
incidentally, your chart shows that the two main nationalities that flock here have the lowest top rate of tax. - baz;
as usual you look through rose tinted glasses. NO PARTY I REPEAT NO PARTY have taken on those people you refer to.
although i do question in thwe todays lack of jobs climate is it right for a 68 year old to taking the job that could have been -done by younger person.,
with regard to benefits in general barryw we are probably in agreement in some of your views.
No imagination baz you can see it every day
- Howard - the meaning was metophorical (spelling???) he could easily have just said get up off your er-um, posterior. So they did exactly what he said. They did not hang around some useless Jobcentre to get a job.
Secondly - get it right, the 50p rate and extra NI was determined by Labour in their budget as a political trap for the Conservatives. Also on your other point - it is not the top earners that 'flock here'.
Jimmy - I am not an accountant but I do make sure my clients do not pay more tax than they have to with properly structured investments and some tax planning. It is my duty of care to my clients however much or however little money they have. - Since when did people that weren't Traditionalists have to be Modernists?
- nice try barry
on point 1 are you saying that a tax rate brought in at a late stage by the last government cannot be overturned by the go ahead blues?
point 2 is quite laughable, the low rate of high point tax has not deterred people from coming here from their go ahead countries. - Howard - Nice try.... daft comment.
On the 50p rate, I have not said they cant stop it and have said they should reverse it, I also pointed out that the only reason for Labour to impose that was as a political trap and politics is the only reason for keeping it. Read what I said not what you think I said.
As for other matter - the tax rate was not at its present low point when the big influx happened and you also have to take into account the much lower wages there as well. There is more than just tax involved in that. - barry
the fact remains that the top rate of tax is 50% and there is no indication that george has any inclination to change that. - He wants to, but it is a political matter not a financial one. As I said I think he should drop it back to 40p personally and take the political flak.
- then why dosent he do it then,or is he to scared to do it.
- Brian - I have said why, it is purely a political judgement.
- and whats that got to do with it,just needs to get on with it.
- Taxes, schmackes, they make little difference when compared to the amount wasted on combatting big Dave's obsession with saving the planet.
You can bang on all you like about raising the tax rate by a penny or even more but any fool with an office calculator can work out that big dave's environmental policies are and will cost us much more than any percieved changes to the tax system.
It's a shame he didn't spend a little more time keeping an eye on events unfolding in the middle east so that he wouldn't have to face the embarrassment of having to apologise to the world for being such a chump where it concerned the lives of UK citizens abroard. No he's surrounded by liberal wets who are hell bent on saving the planet from flood, pestilance and locusts rather than looking after the people he was elected to represent.
A bunch of monkeys would have made a better fist of this situation.
Still, he's the expert after all. - .....Although I have to congratulate Mr. Cameron for sending in the special forces to sweep up many UK citizens from the region. Well done to those brave men.
- Good morning each and Barry.
Businesses rely on a workforce.
That workforce has to in good health, educated, housed, entertained and transported. Business needs said workforces' family and it's children similarly healthy, schooled, fed etc.
All of this is paid via taxation, but where is the thrust of businesses effort in this regard?
Should the prosecution of shop-lifters and bank robbers be done away with as shop keepers and banks are so loathe to pay their dues?
There are limits too when it comes to take, take, take. Perhaps not so much for Dave and Ozzy, but for the electorate their limit is fast being seen as exceeded, by a country mile.
- Tom, read what you said, you included 'entertainment' as being paid for from taxation. Come off it.
The point is that public spending in this country is way above what is sustainable. Other countries have a good transport infrastructure, health services, education etc and yet take up a much, much lower proportion of GDP.
Perhaps, as well, we should look at ways other than taxation to pay for a lot of this, such as health. Something I have blogged about previously. - How can the health provision of each and all be paid for other than by each and all without the so called 'post-code lottery' being further complicated by the whim of a bonus-fuelled bean counter?
"sustainable"?
Surely the real point is 'priority'?
The plain swapping of public inefficiency with corporate avarice cannot provide the same service for less cost. As with PFI deals much of the high costs are down to the Anglo-Saxon way of doing business so much deplored by these other countries of which you speak. To seek to emulate the efficiencies of others more must be done than look for 'suitable' statistics. Do these other countries strike infrastructure deals for one price only to pay and pay again a much inflated price, as is the norm here?
Entertainment/taxation.
Channel4 and the tax-deductibility of advertising in general etc. - Tom - you clearly did not read my blog when I said it was time to privatise the NHS. That means selling hospitals and health facilities to private health companies and charities and introducing an insurance based system such as they have in places like Germany.
If you seperate the funding of your health care from those responsible for delivering it you will get better outcomes.
Incidentally, in what I proposed, using the German system as a model, no-one would be left without treatment. - Good morning each and Barry.
"...as a result, he is in no place to attack the government."
Dear, dear, dear. So much is altered, but so little has changed.
As with bank bail-outs, QE and the (seemingly) eternal rise in house prices and the concomitant ease of credit to keep pace. Dave etc. too, at the time, were speechless.
If Ed Balls did this (and he did help) then so did Dave and Ozzy. They both: the blue and the red, were in this together. Parliament as a body were quite content, though some begrudgingly so, that everything in the garden was lovely. "Curses!" , intoned the blues under their breath.
"It should have been me." As the song has it.
All this while nigh-on each and every member in said Parliament was raking it in. Fingering their personal burgeoning coffers while GB(rown) declared yet higher house prices Wednesday upon Wednesday at PMQ's
As you say Barry, both the blue and the red would go forward with the same policies.
So, patently. This, so called, democracy is as good as it gets.(?)
I wonder? - It's Quantitative easing not quantitive.
As for recession, inflation and all the rest one has to ask oneself why is the government hell bent on building the high speed rail network (HS2) at enormous expense and for no tangible economic gain except where "experts" (ie. those who will profit from this white elephant) tell them there is much to be gained.
Why are the government hell bent on a programme of building 10,000 useless wind turbines at even more expense than HS2 and have the temerity to insist that those who can least afford to do so have to pay the cost of labour's bungling of the economy?
I'm sorry but this last blog posting doesn't wash Barry.
I didn't vote Conservative in order that we might be led by Caroline Lucas and her merry greenies but that's exactly the sort of government we now have. - Quantitative is of course the right spelling Phillip. It is not unusual for me to miss out the 'it' - a bit of a spelling blind spot for me...
As for the other, you are back on your hobby-horse again. Everything does not revolve around 'green' issues and DC is not as extreme on the matter as you love to suggest. - i think a lot of traditional blue supporters like philip have always had a distrust of dave and that has got worse since he gained power.
the complaints about him seem to revolve around him having a small group of allies around him and that the traditional power brokers have been sidelined, even ruth lea has left the party. - Yes but at least my hobby horse costs you nothing except the small amount of time you spend reading and responding to it. However the same cannot be said of the serious implications of my hobby horse where it affects our economy. This will, repeat will, cost us billions upon scarce billions in taxes, energy bills, red tape, business regulations and other wider felt costs. When you talk about the effect of equality legislation on business, that will pale into insignificance compared to environmental law and I am very suprised that you have not followed this particulare story Barry.
You are quite correct Howard Ruth Lea has indeed left the party. She is a noted level-headed type and in the past has always defended sound conservative policy.
The only hope on the horizon is the news from today's Bloomberg website which tells us that the solar gold rush might be over now that the government is considering cutting subsidy incentives for solar panel farms which, as any fool would have predicted, has led to foriegn firms homing in on places like Cornwall to build solar farms and reap millions in the subsidies payed out from OUR pockets via higher energy bills.
Chief amongst the critics are, of course, foriegn companies who make and install these hideous devices. We make no solar panels or wind turbines to speak of in Britain - so much for boosting our own beleagured economy eh? Not too sunny today is it by the way.
So as for my "hobby horse" I suggest you do some research and discover that the tory environment agenda will cost us dear and will without doubt lead to energy shortages, blackouts in the national grid and will cause our economy to nosedive. - Not wanting to labour the point but from the BBC today.......
"Government support for the renewable sector in Scotland is costing more jobs than it creates, a report has claimed.
A study by consultants Verso Economics found there was a negative impact from the policy to promote the industry.
It said 3.7 jobs were lost for every one created in the UK as a whole and that political leaders needed to engage in "honest debate" about the issue."
- i see that they are trying to destroy the landscape near sellinge in order to power up to 10000 homes.
the more i look at the environmental lobby i see people with "evangelical" fervour that hate anyone doubting them.
i am very keen on preserving our countryside and cannot reconcile that with the environmentalists in hampstead and islington who want to destroy it using green credentials. - Howard I couldn't have put it better if I tried. You hit the nail bang on the head.
I strongly suspect David Cameron was taken on board an alien spaceship and had his brain rewired at the same time that he was made party leader. The Zoikedons from the fifth sector in the constellation of Orion knew that he would be elected prime minister and did it in order that one day in the near future when they plan to take over planet Earth all humanoid lifeforms might be turned into the zombies the political elite want us all to be by way of stupifying their minds through propaganda such as climate change.
This might explain the phenonema where all adverts on the television consist of either cartoons or brightly coloured sequences featuring soothing female voices or silly man voices selling us everything from banking services to insurance to the food we buy in the supermarket. It's just the start you know.
- Good afternoon each and Barry.
Barry, you are right.
[I leave the above in a space by itself so that you can frame it.]
Law cannot make equal what nature makes peculiar not make general what is fundamentally particular.
But, a government that nobody voted for cannot conduct itself as if it has a popular mandate either. Why should we not sort out the stuff that is closer to home before we tackle things Europe?
[back to normal now] - bonkers you say barry,but not as bonckers the tory goverment thinking of sending much redused troops to libya.
- So what does that famous eurosceptic Mr. Cameron aim to do about this ruling besides wringing his hands?
- I will answer the sensible question from Philip and ignore the other...
Nothing he can do, it is a ruling by the European Court of Justice and because Labour signed us up to the Lisbon Treaty we are lumbered by it. - not a good answer barry, there are always of getting out of things.
what can the european court of justice do if we refuse to kow tow?
give us a heavy fine that we don't pay?
the truth is that countries around europe cherry pick rules laid down by the e.u. the court of human rights and the court of justice. - Ignore the law and treaties that we signed Howard?. Not a good precedent and a route to international anarchy...
You are confusing the myrad of EU Directives with Court decisions, different beasts.
This creates additional ill-feeling towards the EU and so it has its compensations.
As I have said before the EU will destroy itself with the UK leading the way out of it, but doing so legally. The time will come... - You may well be right concerning our ability to trounce any decisions made by the ECJ or whatever the appropriate accronym is - I lose track there are so many of these things.
However for anyone to describe David Cameron in terms of being a eurosceptic is deluding themselves. Hell will turn into a downhill ski slope before this current administration will even think of a referendum on anything let alone one on our membership of the EU. The tory high command consists of a cosy cabal of europhiles.
Not only that, let's remember when Mr. Cameron told us all that there would be no new powers taken from us and that he would stand in the way of any new powers from Brussels?
Hmmmmn so how how does he explain:
The european arrest warrant,
agreed to a european financial services regulator,
agreed changes to the lisbon treaty without a promised referendum,
goes along with each and every single loopyloo environmentalist directive and makes even more up,
thinks it's good to cut jobs and equipment from front line defences and join up with the French,
That is just a very short list but you can guarantee there are hundreds more that go unreported by a very lazy press core in the UK, small, seemingly inconsequential motions and regulations that affect everything we do in our day to day lives.
On the subject of this latest ruling part of me thinks that the ruling is a logical step towards equality looking at it from the perspective of a feminist. It has to be said that if there were no cost implications to the ruling there would not be the uproar and righteous indignation that has transpired. Most fair minded people, especially most women, would hold this up as a triumph....
But, and here's the money shot, it will cost women more to insure and My giddy aunt that's simply unfair. Hmmmmn. - philip,probably best read and weep,.
- Good morning each and Barry.
This blog was inspired by the tired, tried and failed tosh of the eighteenth and nineteenth century Tories that culminates with the notion of, "trickle-down", more like.
I am no Brownite, but the dire need for material refurbishment throughout the country after each and every Con term in government does, all by itself, provide ample prove that any inter-Con government spend goes up. Similarly, although more in evidence many moons ago, after the Con's have sucked the country dry with their fanatical devotion to profit for the few above all else, much indeed has to be redressed. Alas, in more recent times the two big partys have attired themselves in a similar fashion with the result that New-Labour walked the Tory walk and attempted to walk the Tory talk (with money that did not exist). Much to the chagrin of Dave and Ozzy.
Nobody minds that much Barry that you add your two-penny's worth to the party line, we all know you well enough to be concerned only if you wrote in some other vein.
You say.
"Britain cannot afford to have another Labour government ever again."
I say.
That very few, if any, of those alive today can remember the last time Britain had a Labour government worthy of the appellation. - the clue in the blog is the word "ended" being used, last time the blues were in power it was for 18 years.
a much better yardstick for them would be the average over 18 years, the same applies to the reds 13 years. - From Standpoint magazine.
"The Coalition's own Annual Energy Statement for 2010 concedes that by the year 2020, nearly one third of the average domestic electricity bill will consist of green energy charges imposed by law (£160 out of £512, or 31 per cent)."
"Business will be hit even harder, with environmental charges for the average medium-sized non-domestic user accounting for £404,000 out of £1.224 million, or 33 per cent".
Result? Bye bye inward investment into the UK.
Result? Hello to millions more falling into the bracket known as fuel poverty.
Result? More blackouts. Even the head of the national grid told us all the other day that we will have to change our behaviour to adapt to power outages.
Unfortunately the government has no plan, no long term vision to pull us out of this terrible economic mess left by labour save massive cuts in public spending. So bond holders can pat us on the head and say "there's a good chap oh I'd like to buy some more of the same please but I need a better rate of return old boy".
Apart from the big society, whatever that is, there seems to be no master plan, no big idea to get us to progress. If there is I have not heard of it so please post any details.
The irony in whatever dubious policies this government are selling us is that they are willing to throw money away to the wind (literally), serious money well into the billions, and yet has the cheek to tell us that they are intent on making cuts to the national debt.
They reallly should speak to some expert economists who know a lttle about how to run a country's economy before they waste any more of our hard earned cash. - those are shocking figures philip, i am hurting enough with fuel bills, one came through this week for nearly £.300.
it would make some small sense if some of the turbines and ancillary stuff were built here. - By coming out of the EU,the UK would make a saving of £64MILLION aday,if that amount you could say good -bye, to any cut backs .+it would save our own port from any sell off.
- We ain't coming out of the EU any time soon Vic. With Wales now what is effectively an independent province, or parish, it makes it increasingly difficult for little old GB to leave such was the gleeful hand rubbing from Brussels when the Welsh referendum gave a yes vote. We, increasingly have nothing to offer the world. Whatever we did have has systematically been destroyed or diluted by successive governments in order that the beautiful European utopia, Valhalla or heaven might eventually come to fruition.
What is ironic is that the party who comes off worse in terms of their contribution to our demise is the one which was percieved to be the one that would save us all, namely the conservative party.
I mean take my favourite hobby horse/obsession/issue call it what you will and see exactly where our current government is at and relate that to our standing in the world on other issues.
As it stands we face an energy crunch. It's a textbook case of energy crunches what with commodities increasing exponentially in price and the imminent closure of our power stations.
So what is the governments answer to this, this most serious issue we have had to face since the second world war?
Windfarms.
Yes that's it. Windfarms and thousands of them.
That's it! No plan B.
Windfarms.
Oh and insulation. You know that fibre glass wool that you roll out to warm the attic. Yes that's the one.
Oh I forgot, solar panels. You know the ones where you pay thousands of pounds to fit on your south facing roof and get back lots of loverly subsidies from those who are too poor to buy these things and can smugly tell your friends in the golf club you are saving the planet as well as your bank balance.
That's it!
Really folks that is it.
That it the governments master plan for us all when our power plants are shut down.(you know those ones that the EU forced us to close down or risk millions in fines if we didn't).
Looks like the rest of this century certainly isn't going to belong to us.
Sleep well. - Good afternoon each and Barry.
Is there not true solace in knowing that someone somewhere is enjoying life?
I am fairly sure that you, Barry, are that someone when it comes to penning your pieces here.
What frolicsome joy there is to be gleaned by you, enquiring how the figures that you choose to quote are arrived at. I must admit such jollity is catching. Ho-ho-ho.
Not for you and not for this so-caring of concerns (so caring that it uses the word up-front as it's business name) no, not for either of you the tawdry comparison of tax burden between rich and poor. Even though such comparison would surly show that the last government was as uncaring as the current coalition in this regard, well nearly so.
As they say...
"...And you'd fancy you're in Kent
Or at Epsom if you gaze into the mews
It's a wonder as the landlord
Doesn't want to raise the rent
Because we have such nobby distant views
Oh! it really is a wery pretty garden
And Chingford to the Eastward could be seen
Wiv a ladder and some glasses
You could see to 'Ackney Marshes
If it wasn't for the 'ouses in between..."
[Gus Elen - 1899]
- Well somebody has to pay off the national debt. It's no good ring fencing special interest groups whoever they are. We are all in this together. What might seem unfair to some is seen as fair to others.
So whilst proponents of deep cuts in, for example, in the public sector tell us it's in the national interest others might see things rather differently.
So the case for highlighting the differential between the various manifestions which make up family units ie. single earners with children versus married with children is invalid. I mean what about married couples with no children and two jobs versus single people with three children?
I think CARE are merely justifying their position and representing their own agenda in the way that most other lobby groups do. - That is certainly true Philip about Care but at least they are in-line with the Conservative policy and are pushing at an open door. The block being the LDs who, like others on the left, portray the ending of the couples penalty as penalising single mums!!! Daft thinking but not usual for the left.
So the survey from Care does back up Osborne's claim of the couples penalty and will be useful in the event he acts on the election pledge. - as usual.... not 'not' !!!! hopefully you realise what I meant....
- Uh Oh!
"Europe's climate chief has beaten off intense lobbying from businesses to secure a key victory in the battle over greenhouse gas targets.
Connie Hedegaard, the EU climate change commissioner, published on Tuesday afternoon her long-awaited report into how the EU can toughen its climate targets in a cost-effective manner, with a proposal that the EU could raise its current targets on emissions cuts from 20% emissions cuts to 25% cuts by 2020."
It's gonna get very messy from now on. Hold onto your hats. Oh and keep those cuts coming, every little helps.
- As a follow up on Mr. Cameron's big plan to make the UK rich and in the forefront of green technologies, big society, big dis, big dat, blah blah blah, hot off the press on the state broadcaster today and I quoteth though you're not going to beliefitheff:
"The government will help pay to train 1,000 apprentices to insulate homes as part of its "green deal" energy plan.
Announcing the move, Chris Huhne said a "big injection" of skills and cash was required if ambitious energy efficiency targets were to be realised".
Brilliant! Highly skilled jobs. Teaching the young and thrusting how to lay fibreglass. My God the mind boggles. They put James Watt and Brunell to shame.
There's more:
"Under the plan, the government will cover the cost of training 16- to 18-year-old apprentices and will share the cost for over 19-year-olds with businesses, which may include B&Q and British Gas".
Wow B&Q eh? You know that high tech company, the one where they do two for the price of one every now and then on the pot plants they forgot to water during the hot spell (global warming of course) and hurry to get rid off double quick?
What else do we glean from Pravda, sorry the BBC. Hmmmn let's open the big window shall we?
"It is envisaged that the apprentices will become experts in installing cavity and solid wall insulation in homes and more energy-efficient heating systems in business premises. Ministers want to accelerate the green deal programme - under which homeowners will get their properties insulated at no upfront cost and reimburse firms carrying out the work from the savings they make on their energy bills".
Experts in installing cavity and solid wall insulation.
Oh my Gaia. We can all become experts now. Take note of the last sentence......" reimburse firms carrying out the work".
Ah the green deal eh? China and India, Germany no less must be quaking in their boots. Look out boys the Brits are coming.
- your not convinced then phil lol
- So Philip - in short you are against the government supporting apprenticeships for teenagers and against helping people insulate their homes so they can save on energy costs.
mmmmmmm - sounds that way baz
- No, on the contrary, I'm in favour of skilling our young people. Repeat, skilling.
How long is the apprentiship course that these people will have to attend in order to learn to lay insulation in people's lofts - three years?
Or maybe they intend to make it an nvq course. Or a degree course although the payback of £9000 might seem a little excessive given the wages these youngsters are likely to earn in this "industry".
mmmmmmmmmm. - On the above i disagree with a few of the items which i list below;
EQUALITY ACT does have benefits and we should look at ways of
making it better
NATIONAL WAGE BARGAINING
This should be a company by company basis, but usually those
that wish to abolish wage bargaining are the same that support
big pay rises for managers/chief executives etc, whilst at the
same time telling everyone else to tighten there belts!!!
NAT INSURANCE
Where would the dosh come from instead?
EDUCATION REFORM
This i believe is being pushed by the lib dems but just as much the cobbled together govt.
Would always support the bonfire of quango's
Yep banks had it to good for to long, and only a real restructure will have an effect, but this is unlikey to happen
HUMAN RIGHTS ACT
There are parts of the hiuman rights act i don't support, but theres a lot that has been introduced that has benefited so many people, so let';s look at how we can improve the system rather than aboloish it - i would go with abolishing the equality act, it just means that people get invited to interviews for no other purpose than going through the motions.
we should have our own human rights act, not one imposed on us.
national pay bargaining must go, the cost of living in london is far higher than say the north east.
national insurance can be incorporated into the tax system, would mean less admin. - I agree with most of the above but if you're looking for any change on these points I suggest you don't put your faith in this present administration to tackle any of them. They will shout and scream and pretend they intend doing something about things but, alas, things will remain as they are.
Off topic, it was jolly fun to see Francis Maude get a though kick-in by non other than Caroline Flint. It was rather embarrassing really but nothing other than we have become accustomed to from the current front bench. - the high spot on today's pmq shindig was when dave openly admitted that he preferred to stay in the european union.
he will feel better for getting that out in the open. - howard
oh dear
now watch tebbitt and co go after mr cameron if he said that lol - he will have more than that to worry about keith, the back benchers will start a whispering campaign as is usual in these things.
his rejoinder today was that he wanted to change the e.u. from within, hardly likely to go down well with the other 20 odd nations who will see that as arrogance. - There is nothing new here. This is the standard Conservative position, for now.
It should be likened to when a Prime Minister (any of them, all Parties) expresses his full confidence in a beleauguered Minister.... - i looked on conservate home barry, the natives seem rather restless, some comments seemed to indicate that more members would move to vic's party.
you don't need me to tell you how important the issue is to the rank and file.
these are the people that pay their membership dues, deliver leaflets, stick stuff in envelopes at election time, man the polling stations and do fund raising activities.
no party can operate without them. - There are also a lot of trolls Howard. Care does need to be taken over the comments. Unlike similar sites from the left Conhome do not try through registration to restrict those who comment on threads, anyone can.
I have just had a look through and some familiar names crop up expressing views that are not a surprise to regular readers.
One of the great things about the Conservative Party is how laid back it is about such things. - Surely that's a tad unfair, describing those who hold views different to one's own as trolls? Descriptions like that are more suited to comment is free rants on the Guardian website where inevitably, in the comment section, anyone veering from the Leninist line is shouted down as a troll.
Howard's point made earlier about the referendum question is pertinent in this respect. Mr. Cameron has adopted the "laugh at the eurosceptic" position whenever the subject arises and come down extremely hard on those calling for a vote.
Around the time of the signing of the lisbon treaty his posturing was so camp and faux-eurosceptic on the issue but inevitably disguised his deep attachment to the euro project. It's a fact that if, at the time, he laid his cards on the table and told the truth, namely that he is in favour of a deeper integration into the project, David Davis would now be leader of the party.
Sadly they were hoodwinked and the worse of we are all now. - philip
you have sa fair point there - The expression trolls is not used at those with different opinions but to those who masquerade as one thing, stirring things up to create a particular impression.
Trolls are simply fraudulent posters.
You need to catch up on your internet jargon Keith and Philip.
I would be a troll if I went on LabourHome pretending to be a Labour supporter but intending to create an impresion of dissent among the Labour faithful. Some people fall for such tricks. - Not quite true Barry the word has different meanings according to one's perception and different situations but it's a small, perdantic point anyhow.
- Lets be specific then, I refer to the 'concern troll' see Wiki if you do not understand my meaning.
- I've just been listening to an Australian radio station broadcast with two fine hosts which makes radio Kent's morning output sound like listen with Mother (mind you that's not difficult) and it struck me how similar our present government is to the labor coalition in Australia.
Carbon taxes are big in Australia. Correction, the issue is huge. It's the biggest issue there is at the moment over there because of the threat to the economy through carbon taxes levied on Australian industry which we know will lead to a loss of jobs and contracts going overseas. The policies of the labor party are a mirror image of David Camerons.
During the ad break there was a short announcement from a representative of a group opposed to the installation of a law which would restrict cigarettes to be packaged in nothing other than plain white boxes.
It doesn't stop there as there are many similarities to the conservative party.
This speaks volumes when people point out that the grass roots of the tory party are extremely unhappy with the present leadership and the course it is taking. - "PRIME Minister David Cameron is urging for a buyer to rescue Coventry electric van maker Modec.
But he made no offer of government financial support or a bail-out, as he faced calls from a leading Coventry academic to do more to help the low carbon cars of the future."
Do I really need to comment on this article?
Ok I will.
LMAO.
- Good morning each and Barry.
So the Equalities Commission is gone.
We get...
A warehouse of office equipment and enough shredded paper to power a small town and last, but not least, we get a plush and expensive empty office building?
Dave can then hire a few more advisors to help in
"Creating a fairer Britain".
Without the interference of a body set up to do just that.
Mayhap an umbrella organisation,
'The Office of Suck-up and Sycophancy Pandering to Oil-rich Tyrants" (TOSS POTs)?
Will take over the lease? They will need non executive directors too. No hint of jobs for the boys there.
What is the name of that popular parlour game, the object of which is to remove constituent parts without the entire edifice collapsing?
"Tory Policy Time bomb"?
I am sure that a more catchy title has been found. - No Tom it has not gone, I am saying it should be done away with.
Governments should stop interfering in the manner we have got used to in the past and let us get on with our lives and with each other. - ...I know that it has not yet gone, but you wish it so Barry. I was speaking of that later sum, known as the after-math.
- SEEDA.
£200,000 for light display on the front of their headquarters.
Good ridance suckers.
Nuff said. - Lets have them up at Berlington house,that will show just the mess it is both day and night
- vic,the only mess i want to see around burlington house is a pile of rubble and a fence.
- what mystifies me is the disparity of the figures.
5 billion to 20 billion all of a sudden. - This comes from a detailed research into what is proposed.
The numbers will be dictated for instance by whether functions are dropped all together or just passed on the another authority. By dropping functions you have the greatest cost savings. I suspect that the original figures did not fully reflect all the dropped functions due to the need to consider them in detail, while the MPs did not allow for this at all in their report.
This is what smaller government means - more of it please.... - I note a report today indicated that even the £20bn estimate is too low and that it could be as high as £30bn.
They are scrapping not simply reassigning a lot more functions than expected. Great stuff. - i think the americans have been wise to take a backward step on this one.
the regimes they have been propping up in the arab world are crumbling in the face of popular uprisings.
the no fly zone is a loser, surface to air missiles would have to be destroyed, meaning that foriegners would be dropping bombs on arab soil.
this would just be seen as the west protecting their oil supplies. - I have to disagree Howard. Leadership can take many forms, staying quiet and wringing your hands is not one of them.
The no fly zone is now being actively pursued. Enforcing it without a British flat-top will be more difficult if the Americans do not join in though the French do have a flat-top to help, not a very effective one though. - i was listening to a former ambassador to the states this morning, he went along with my way of thinking only he used the term "islamist" where i used "arab.
the point he made was that america are already in iraq and afghanistan, any military involvement in libya would be seen as an attack on the islamic world. - I agree Barry. Obama could be considered to be the American version of Prof. Brian Cox. He looks lovingly at the camera and whispers sweet nothings and we learn absolutely nothing from what they have to say. It's politics for tellytubbies or in the case of Mr. Cox non-science for the masses.
- An excuse for doing nothing and allowing Gadaffi to stay in power murdering his own people Howard.
- best option is to do nothing barry, if we get involved with helping the rebels and they get the initiative they would cheerfully slaughter all of the people that support the government.
it is a tribal issue east libya against west libya. - Totally disagree Howard. Rebels want and need help, if we do not step in then you can be sure that Islamists will fill the vacuum in their own particular style and their poison will spread futher giving us an even bigger problem on our hands.
- barry
in your previous post you showed concern of libyans being murdered, you then go on to say about problems for the u.k. if islamists gain power.
that is how the west has thought for decades and now the chickens have come home to roost, the american administration understands this at last.
as an add on it is too late anyway to get involved militarily, if the u.n. give the go ahead tonight it would take at least another week to get everything sorted.
the planes are already bombing benghazi. - Barry! Some countries tried what you are suggesting now, several years back in Irak.
How many people have been killed since that war "finished"?
How many people have fled Irak since then?
Shall I tell you? Probably well over a million people (citizens of Irak) have fled Irak, and the deaths during and after the war...I don't know. Tens of thousands, who knows! And the wounded and crippled people, from bombs going off almost on a daily basis... who knows!
What are you actually trying to make us believe???
Do you think Preseident Obama is stupid or something?!
And that is not to mention Afghanustan! - It's all going to go horribly wrong.
- whats right with the yanks.
- Well the UN disagrees with you Howard and from the reports of rebels firing their guns in the air to welcome the UN resolution so do the anti-Gadaffi forces.
The real problem is the way Obama has dragged his heels, we should have got to this stage a week ago.
The situation in Libya is nothing like the situation in Iraq or Afghanistan. - we still do not know what sort of government the rebels would form if they gained power.
another thing is that the no fly zone would only stop gaddafis air force from bombing benghazi, there is no indication that the rebels could advance towards tripoli.
the way i see it is that this could end up with a nation split down the middle. - Yes they were very slow on this..one thinks also of the carnage in Bosnia for example where nobody did anything for too long, so lessons havent been learnt..the west seem to dither for far too long which can cause unnecessary loss of life.
But remember its not just a 'no fly zone' now...they now have carte blanche to take any necessary action that may be needed. France have said their jets will be in action within hours as reported on R4 this morning.
Will be interesting to see what happens now. jubilation has indeed broken out on the streets of Benghazi.
Dont know if anyone saw Kelvin MacKenzie on Question Time last night. He gave HMG a right oul bollicking for cutting back the military on one hand and declaring war on the other.
He said "Cameron has gone completely mad!" - there seems to be no end game here, gadaffi will not surrender and still has a lot of loyalty from his troops and civilian supporters.
the civil war could be interminable, besides once the west go in the bahraini people and others will demand that we go in to help them. saudi troops are currently opressing them.
after that the yemenis will expect the same, the list will just go on. - PaulB - they dont have 'carte blanche' but can take air to ground action or chore bombardment - boots on the ground are not authorised.
MacKenzie of course goes well over the top but his sentiments against Defence cuts are of course correct as I have said many times. - Shore bombardment not chore bombardment ----- I dont think throwing dirty pots and pans at Gadaffi will have quite as much effect as high explosives....
- Which rebels is Britain supposed to fight for now, Barry?
The rebels in Afghanistan or the rebels in Libya?
Sometimes you try to spin off that British soldiers must fight rebels in one country, and then it is that they have to fight for rebels in another country.
You make your rules up as you go along, and then try to spin them off to a public. - Alexander - do you make it up as you go along?
- When dead and injured British soldiers are flown home from Afghanistan, nothing is being made up.
I never participate in help the heroes campaigns, because it hurts me too much to know that by doing so, I would be indirectly consenting to our soldiers being sacrificed in a war against rebels, but a war that should not concern our Country.
And that I would be consenting to more British soldiers being killed or crippled in a war against rebels who I have never met, and who have never threatened either me or this Country.
Now, I am supposed to believe that we have to fight a war for rebels.
Whenever you try spinning off that our Country has to get involved in a foreign war, Barry, following some personal ideas of fighting other peoples' wars that have nothing to do with us, and of "national interests", I will most certainly confront you with why we should not do so! - Don't worry it's red nose day. Hopefully they'll shove a few bob in the direction of the MOD in order that they can raise some readies for a new plane or two.
I hope they've worked out how much their carbon offset is when all the dirty oil they use in order to police the no fly zone is up and running. After all wasn't it Cameron who told us all that climate change was the most dangerous peril facing mankind - more dangerous than terrorism?
Actually I've just realised it really is red nose day. I'm off to the pub- very fast. - Unfortunatly BAZ I think obama and others don't want another
IRAQ fiasco
so are careful in decisions they make - That is no excuse to absolve himself of any kind of leadership Keith. He could have led in any direction but instead was torn by indecision while people die.
As I said before Iraq cannot be compared to this. There is no suggestion that land forces be used or of any kind of invasion. - Just been annouced a fighter plane just been shot down, unsure by whom, or belonging to whom.
lots of bombs/gunfire now being heard
Im not defending obama baz - It is impossible to know whats happening here. Propoganda is the first option always and it goes into overdrive once military action is declared. Each side seeks to justify whatever is about to come next. The Gaddafi side insist they are keeping the ceasefire.
One remembers the story about the incubators in Kuwait. A simple story and it went like this..the Iraqis took all the incubators from Kuwait and left the babies in the hospitals there to die. You might remember that story. Some experts say this was the one story beyond all others that motivated public opinion into a frenzy...so from then on everyone in the western hemisphere was in favour of at least the initial attack.
Turned out later that the Iraqis hadnt touched a damn thing...but nobody really noticed then and the propoganda job was done. - paulb
you hit the nail on the head - that was rather nasty about the incubators, as said the propoganda machine goes into overdrive.
thinking back it was put about at one time that cruise missiles were so deadly accurate they could hit the intended target and leave no collateral damage. - I think you are right in terms of this particular issue and correct when you talk about Lucas and other notable bedwetters using it to flog more of their hippy dreams to gullable politicos.
Where I disagree is where you suggest that renewables should be part of the energy mix. There is no evidence, certainly in the UK, that good money should be put towards an entirely useless method of creating electricity. Wind and solar as well as tidal are complete non starters and in their lifetimes do more harm than good.
Carbon sequestration is a total crock as well. This technology is not only pointless, demands more energy and is impossible on a large scale, even if the carbon could be sequestrated it's pumped into a large hole in the ground or the bedrock under our feet. And all for what? Daft!
The best way to go is nuclear, coal and gas. Shale gas is increasingly seen as the future and there is an abundance under our feet and yet that creep Huhne won't even entertain the idea.
The fact is that there WILL be rationed energy in the not too distant future here in the UK but most people tend not to dwell on that and hope that "something will be done" by somebody when it starts happening.
Do not trust this present administration to prevent such things happening as they are incapable of rational thought where it comes to such matters. - Philip, please don't mention coal!
May is coming; if Vic gets swept to power, he might try his hand on opening a coal mine near Dover.
I could imagine anything happening from Shakespeare Cliff tumbling down into the sea, to a new Channel Tunnel popping up somewhere in Boulogne! - Coal is good. In fact coal is great. Without it or something that will really replace it (discount solar, wind, biomass, wave and other madcap ideas) we are sunk economically speaking.
- It will end up with more coal power Plants,and will be a big+ for all of us.
- Red nose day more like.
Budget for growth? £200 billion to decarbonise the UK over the next ten years. Compare that with estimates to rebuild following the damage in Japan which estimates range in the £180 billion. Yeah budget for growth.
50,000 new apprenticeships. 50,000? Out of how many NEET's? 8,000 highly skilled the other 42,000? Well that will be training for the young to insulate people's lofts then.
Increased duty on cigarettes? Expect more smuggling and conterfeit contraband then.
Lower fuel tax. What about the planet it's hurting. It's crying out for us all to use less petrol Dave told us that.
- BARRYW
The budget leaks happened way before Mr Brown, there are some things you could blame mr brown for, but being the FIRST to leak the budget is not one of them - I did not say that he was the first to leak a budget Keith, I said that before him such leaks was a resignation issue. That is perfectly factual and non-controvercial.
Also factual is the point I made that Brown was the first Chancellor not to enter what used to be called 'purdah' before a budget to avoid such leaks. The Blair/Brown governments always used to deliberately test out budget proposals, through leaks, ahead of a budget as a matter of course. I regret that it seems Osborne has chosen to follow the same path rather than revert to the old way of doing things.
All this is a matter of record Keith. - baz;
i don't fully agree with your view, but that's fine
yep osbourne taking the same route.
lets hope we have some cream in these very hard times - We also have a leak this morning suggesting that there will be a new tax on private jet travel...which seems quite fair. I still long for the old notion of a fairer distribution of wealth if possible. Give more tax breaks to the poor and more tax hikes to the rich and ignore the whimperings of bankers and the like that they might leave the country and take up residence elsewhere if taxed.
We have found have we not, that people who leave this country generally want to come back. They cant ignore for too long one of the worlds buoyant economies ( in good times)
The problem with Budgets though is that they almost always hammer the working man. Think classes for the moment. The working classes exist for their fags and beer, research shows it to be their only outlet in vast deprived areas up north and so on...and what generally goes up in the Budget? Yes thats it, fags and beer. - I totally disagree with your redistibutive philosophy PaulB.
Taxation should only be to raise what revenue is needed to fund essential services in the most efficient way.
Punishing the better off with high taxes is counter productive and reduces tax income to the Treasury. We have seen this time and time again.
I know many people who run their own small businesses and work their remuneration to keep just below the 40% threshold. There are a number of quite reasonable and legitimate ways to do that, including working less hard and not bothering to take on the risks of expending their business. Funnily enough not everyone is greedy enough to work all-hours to earn more money just for 41% or more to be paid to the taxman (41% = 40% tax plus 1% NI).
The 50% threshold will be another disincentive to earn more and many other people will limit their earning to that as well.
If we had a simple flat rate of tax they would benefit from additional risk taking, more jobs get created, they earn more income and more taxes get paid to the Treasury. - PAULB
Glad your still on board with the re distribute idea.
quite honestly as iv said we are out of control with reality at the moment,
obscene wages of bankers and many chief executives both in the private and public sectors.
footballers getting £200,000 a week
the list goes on and on
time for it all stop
if we believe in camerons local society, all pulling together.
- The old Labour envy seems to be coming through there. Some people earning a high income is not a reason to damage the amount of tax revenues being collected by penal taxation levels.
- seems to me more a case of george at no.11 going with the public mood, he is aiming his fire at tax avoidance loopholes and plans to collect an extra bilion quid each year from businesses and wealthy individuals.
no red involvement at all. - BARRYW
Unlike the lib dems my view has not changed, and more so in todays climate.
I'm not surprized at your support for the obscene amounts being paid, whilst the people at the bottom(if they have a job these days)get screwed.
it's about fairness
it's about thinking of others
its about not ripping the ars** out of things
its about a fsair society
the list goes on barryw - I dont think it is fair to pursue policies that result in the government getting less tax revenue and fewer jobs Keith.
- This budget will be the standard mixture of class envy measures to make the poor feel the Tories have their best interests at heart hence, as Howard has pointed out, tax avoidance loopholes, tax the rich blah blah blah.
Of course we can see through all this for what it really is.
Add to that catastrophic environmental taxes and a push for what is laughing called green policies which as I have told you all before will cost us whatever manufacturing capability we have it is what I call a kamikaze budget. More borrowing to boot as admitted by the government only the rate of borrowing will at some point in time slow down.
Taxing smokers and drinkers (demonising is more apt and it's reasonably lucrative) being another old and overused measure for when there really is no more money left in the tea caddy in the kitchen cupboard to pay the gasman.
It's a pound to a penny that any lowering in the tax rate on low alchohol beers will be set at beers with an alchohol level of less than 30% which as far as I'm aware is only available to those who drink cans of lemonade shandy sold in most good supermarkets.
Gah! Only those with too much time on their hands will bother to tune into this pointless exercise in pointlessness on Wednesday. - Just to ramble further about leftist leanings on the greater distribution of wealth...
Once upon a time there were workers, they had bosses, they expected the bosses to be paid more than them, as they were, and all was relatively hunky dory. Those days, the bosses salary was at least in sight of the workers salary. He got more for sure, but chances were he owned the establishment, put in long hours, and risked his own money. All was fine as long as the workers got a living wage within site of Mr Boss's wage.
Those kind of businesses are fewer now. All conglomerates now. And what has become of Mr Boss and his boardroom colleagues? Well its different now. He doesnt know the shopfloor, he doesnt know the workers, he pays himself much much more than ever before, and his performance isnt all that good either. His salary has lost sight of his workers meagre takings.
But how does he select his own wage? How does it get set at the level its at?
Easy...
I'm Mr Fred Smith owner of Fred Smith Holdings..Fred Smith Holdings was long ago floated on the stock exchange. I have a board of directors all on a fat salary like myself. My salary has long since left the meagre takings of the workers far behind. The gap has widened but I deserve it, after all Im Fred Smith of Fred Smith Holdings.
Who decided my salary level...?
Well I have 5 boardroom directors. On top of that I have 4 non-executive directors. The non-execs provide independance, well at least that's what we tell the public, but really I play golf at Sunningdale with Jack and Jim and they decide the salary level for next year and the year after. And every year I get an even heftier wedge than before, gapping myself even further from the lowly workers.
The shareholders are happy with this because they think Im paid what Im worth, well the non-execs told them so, and they know it was independantly assessed and awarded!
Life's good....
- PAULB;
Taking all that on board you tend to forget the other end of the scale, the woker themselves.
Having thought he/she had seen the back of the cloth cap begging for a job mentality, here we are back in the same climate.
the worker is given poor wages
poor workers conditions
corners are cut not to benefit the company but to line the pockets of the boss's even more.
health and safety often going out of the window.
undercutting other companies for contracts, then being unable to
forfill the financial side of the contract so cut back the workforce, conditions even more.
theres lot's more paulb
but theres a start - keith
i suspect that you have misread paulb's post. - howard
not at all i support and agree with paulb and his views on boss's and the worker just adding to it - MP's are on about £65k a year for a demanding role.Local councillors are on over £100k for cocking things up locally,big style.
Refuse collectors are on about £14K. Councillors go on strike no-one would notice.Dustmen go on strike and we all know about it.Who deserves the better salary? Those that make a positive contribution on the day to day running of the country or those that sit on their arses failing to get DTIZ developed,leaving the Crypt untouched for 30 years and running down services in order to maintain their fat cat wage packet,golden handshake and a pension that pays more than most people earn a year.
Funny old world.
- Marek - you will be hard pressed to find any councillors on £100k... Some senior council officers are but certainly not elected councillors.
Pay takes into account a number of factors that include the range of skills the job requires, experience, the market rate and the responsibilities required.
That said I do not disagree that many in the public sector are over-paid for what they do.
The private sector pay is a matter for the businesses only and not government. Yes there are many that I think are over-paid like a lot of pampered premier league footballers but I would not want to interfere with the right of their employers to set their pay or to interfere with the market. I certainly do not approve of penal taxation either due to the impact it has in reducing tax revenues and the supression of enterprise on which we depend for the creation of jobs. - MAREK
Good post
one day barryw will grasp what's being said
hope you are well marek - I do grasp what you have said and expressed why I disagree with it.
This is all about attitudes. Socialist envy against reality and the adverse impact of their ill-conceived political stance. - BARRYW
I have no envy for those that earn high wages, much the opposite in fact.
Your fantastic leader tell's us we are all in this together, but in reality that's not the case.
- Keith - that place you refer to being 'all in together' is the place that your Party dumped us into. The Labour policies of envy, class bigotry, high tax and high spend are not those that will get us out of it.
We need to encourage people to earn more, to invest, to take risks, and allow them to benefit from that. Only that way can we get out of this mire.
Whinging on complaining about some people earning a lot gets us no-where. - BARRYW
We have said before we will never agree, there are many things i disagree with and reason';s why i left the labour party, but i also have even more concerns over the direction of your party.
but there you have it - i have a feeling that we have gone over the issues in the last 6 posts, agreement wil never be reached.
- True
- not much discussion on the budget here, i just glanced at it, didn't see anything that contentious.
maybe ed b*lls will liven things up tomorrow? - An odd mixture of environmental taxes and environmental tax giveaways.
The most bizzare budget for many years.
- howard,do you mean ed balls.if so say so.
- A new blog will be uploaded within the next 24 hours in which I will be doing some bduget commentary. Sorry its a bit late but what with budget and the referendum I have not had time yet to apply myself to it...
- Good move by Osbourne taxing oil and gas producers in the region of £2 billion which should help out with paying our share of the £3 Billion it is likely to cost the UK to bailout Portugal.
Or perhaps I'm wrong. Maybe the £2 billion snatch is to help pay for the Green investment bank (something which none of the mainstream news outlets are willing to discuss), you know the "bank" set up in order to get the UK to push for growth and set the world standard in p***ing money up the wall, erm sorry, installing wind farms and insulating our collective lofts.
All very depressing and anyone thinking that this is a budget for growth is deluding themselves but no doubt it will be spun this way. - we will await the full rundown from barry, noticed that the fuel payments for us coffin dodgers is being cut.
so much for election promises. - In time, and it takes a few months for the realities of budget day speeches to sink in, we shall see the results of exactly what budget decisions really mean. The front pages of the tabloids and (supposedly) serious newspapers have been fixated by the price of fuel at the pumps. This is really childish. Really childish and it's the same scenario played out by the usual suspect every single year. It's like financial groundhog day. It's X factor reporting. Radio four as usual hosts a programme dealing with the usual pained questions from concerned middle England about what it means for their pension, their tax position and the rest of it.
Unanswered questions will gradual have to be addressed once the hype dies down as an empty feeling of helplessness begins to sink in.
Questions will be asked about the Green investment bank and what a complete waste of our money it is.
Questions will be asked about the extremely political move to introduce a windfall tax on energy diggers and the loss of thousands of jobs that entails not to mention the fact that any extra tax will have to be paid by us all and discourage further exploration in the north sea.
Bond markets will begin to question pledges to lower borrowing when everybody can plainly see increased levels of borrowing over the next few years and no real prospect of growth.
That's just for starters.
It's just as well the weather has been absolutely beautiful or I might really feel depressed.
- not that clever on cigarettes, encourages counterfeiting and smuggling and also going across to mainland europe and buying legally,
all means less money to the exchequer.
about time on strong beers, what level have they set the strength?
i thought he would have merged tax and n.i. and made things simpler.
not much excitement in the rest.
the journalist who covered it in the "independent" seemed to think that it was a bit of a gamble overall as everything depended on future growth. - A gamble! No a fact of life that is always with us.
Everything does depend on growth, what is more private sector growth, that is a fact, it has always been a fact, there is absolutely no surprise there at all.
The economy comes unstuck every time when you get a government that stifles private sector growth and entrepeurialism through excessive taxation, red tape, rules and regulation.
We all depend on the private sector ultimately, including everyone working in the public sector.
Higher tax revenues into the Exchequer should only arise from increased private sector growth and not higher taxes. A legal and constitutional requirement for that would be of massive benefit to the economy, provided we got those taxes down low enough first to provide a good starting point. Right now they are far too high. - Howard - I forgot to answer your question, it is on beer exceeding 7.5% abv. The effect is 25p on 500ml can of beer of 9% abv.
- Howard I post this with some trepidation. Make sure you're not standing near any sheer drops or pouring anything hot.
This little gem from the directgov website.
I did warn you of this a few posts ago but alas like most of the points I raise it was ignored.
Are you ready?
"Lower duty on low alcohol beers
A reduced rate of 50 per cent of general beer duty will be introduced for beers above 1.2 per cent abv up to 2.8 per cent abv in strength. This will reduce the price of a pint of beer at 2.8 per cent abv by 18 pence. These changes will come into effect from 1 October 2011."
There really are some strikingly brilliant minds out there running our economy.
- i will have to check the supermarket labels on beer tomorrow, i would have thought 1.8 abv would have much the same kick as a cup of tea.
sounds like when a reduced road tax was offered for smaller vehicles.
i think it was down to one fiat model and a robin reliant that fitted the criteria.
BUDGET LATEST
With the cuts about to bite we have been told ``We are all in this together``Everyone except the Government know it is only the general public who are in ``IT``
If growth of 3% is not acheived even more of us will be in ``IT``
With the Forcast for growth being downgraded to 1.7% it is beginning to look decidedly hairy.
- REG
Barryw will blame everyone else, it is as you say very grim
and going to get a lot worse
reg you didnt mention unitaries - Howard you are on a quest for the golden fleece ('scuse the pun, fleece - fleeced.) Supermarkets, none of them sell beer with an alcohol content of less that 3%.
Talking of percentages it appears that arctic sea ice has been increasing immensely over the past couple of years in fact there has been a net gain of over 2000 cubic kilometres since 2008. That's alot of ice and I think it would have been only fair for the Tories to have factored that into the budget where it involves carbon taxes rather similar to the fuel price escalator brought in by labour.
When sea ice increases we pay less carbon tax and when, inevitably, it melts we pay a little more. Alternatively when the ice grows, as it has been over the past few years, the new green investment bank gives away a fiver to each and every citizen as a thank you for doing their bit to save the planet. Seems sensible to me but I guess Caroline Lucas, leader of the Tories might find some reason for this to be a non-starter.
- It seems that the highly political move (versus sound economic reason) to create a windfall tax on North sea energy producers has totally backfired. This is really serious stuff. It cannot be merely brushed off as a blip which will have no real effect on UK plc.
This is really, really bad. - some common sence may prevail.
- nice try at smearing ed milliband there barry.
according to all reports he addressed a peaceful crowd of around 400,000.
the anarchists were elsewhere smashing the city up. - No smearing at all Howard and I did not suggest that the majority were rioting.
What I am doing is questioning Red Ed's judgement and his idiotic comparison in that daft speech of his.
I am far from the only one doing so. - Well the crowd were eminently respectable citizens of all kinds, and a vast crowd too. Middle England from the shires marched, rural ladies from English country life marched, nurses who are indeed trade unionists marched, allsorts of people from all walks of life marched.
Who are these people asks you?
Well, they are none other than David Cameron's Big Society on the move.
Yes indeed. These are the people of The Big Society, these are the people who must be listened to, the people who can shape the government's policy, strategy etc etc. These are the people who can open their own schools, choose the doctor they want, care for the elderly as volunteers while the paid sector gets ravaged.....and so on.
They shouldnt be easily dismissed as irrelevent.
- They are also people who clearly do not understand or refuse to understand the depth of the financial crisis caused by excessive government spending.
No matter how much you perosonally might want to spend your own money on this or that if you dont have the income to cover it you cannot spend it. If you did so you would soon be up to your kneck deep in the doo-doo.
Many, many families undertsand this and have had to cut beck on their own spending recently also may companies have done likewise. Most people understand that the government has to do the same and that is why such 'head in the sand' protesters not only will not but can not get their way. - Well I did tell you this would happen and more still to come yet,to many cuts at one time,
And there was no need for it,just come out of the EU. - I have said it before Vic - if there is an error it is on not cutting enough or quick enough not the other way around. An exit from the EU while an admirable aim and highly beneficial to the UK will also not solve the problem either.
Remember these so called cuts only bring public spending down to the level of 2007 and even that is over a period of 4 years.
The aim should be to get public sepnding down from the current 53% of GDP to under 30% of GDP. - Also Barry as I said by coming out of the EU would be a saving of £64 million a day,
- Vic - not enough to even pay the interest on the debt we have, only about two thirds of it. So it does not solve the problem.
Besides - I suspect that figure is well over the top if you are looking for a net saving it would be a lot less than that. - By repealing the climate change act of 2008 and scrapping Camerons lunatic obsession with green energy and non existant green jobs the debt would fall exponentially over the next few years. I won't hold my breath for that to happen.
Part of the reason we are borrowing so much is exactly that ie. the governments green policies.
It's staring us all in the face but nobody is willing to face up to the Prime minister and explain the facts to him.
No doubt most people on this forum suspect that this green agenda is costing us all a few million quid a year.
Have a guess everyone and post up what figure you estimate the figure to be. Prizes for the nearest. - barryw,i would say you where fighting a lost cause,people power will prevail.
- LOL Brian.
Are you suggesting that the protesters are representative? That certainly is not the case and from some estimates I have seen anyway the numbers were grossly over-estimated by the media. Blair and Mrs T faced much larger demos in their day. - philip
maybe that is why they are cutting winter fuel allowances, so that they can pay for dave's hairbrained energy schemes? - Ironic really a few thousand demonstrate against Gaddafis regime in Libya so we bomb the hell out of them....4 times that amount demonstrate against Camerons regime in London and we do nowt.
- Indeed Howard a small inconvenient truth only discovered (as is the way of these things) after a closer look the day after the budget day.
As it stands the size of the deficit is in the region of £178 billion. That's alot of wunga all things considered which is why the government is so committed (although it will increase this figure even more over the next few years quite substantially) to lower this figure. What to believe eh?
Anyhow in order to bring this figure down we all know that there is likely to be massive closures of public services and unemployment in the public sector will rise.
Now here's what I can't quite get my head around. The climate change act, passed in 2008, is fully supported by all three parties most notably by the conservatives. They have embraced the legislation to the point that they think that it's not radical enough. Basically the point of the law will make us the only, THE ONLY, country in the world to lower our carbon emmissions by 80% by the time I hit the age of ninety in the year 2050.
The governments own official figures estimate that the act will cost us £180 billion over the next ten years. Thirty times that till the year 2050. Remember this is a conservative estimate and we all know you can double or even triple that figure not forgetting the impact such a hairbrained scheme will have on every single aspect of life and business in the UK.
By scrapping the costliest piece of law ever passed in the history of our country we can pay off the deficit in a matter of ten years by doing nothing at all. In fact by steering the country away from tofu politics we can then divert resources and money away from this religion and start a new economic route and make the UK competitive once again. It's doable and the only thing standing in the way of making us great again are politicans who have no capablity to distinguish between science and propaganda.
- And while we're at it here's something for those who attended the demonstration on Saturday to ponder.
Northern rock are to shed 680 jobs in order that they make the sale of their bank more attractive to any prospective buyer. The question is whether or not it is better to fight for the jobs of those who stand to lose them and keep things the way they are with the government permanently running the bank or is it more preferable to let them go in order that the bank might be sold at a profit and therefore go back into the economy and therefore save or make new jobs?
David, as they say, it's over to you. - i suspect that dave will prevaricate and watch which way the wind turbines blow.
the latest u turn is over the education maintenance allowance.
let us not forget that his only job before he entered politics was in public relations. - Ha yes indeed Howard. Public relations a great grounding in the ins and out of running a country.
Strange that when all is said and done and all the supposed cuts have been made historians will write about this period in British politics as one where the most important issue facing the UK was a complete and utter dereliction of duty to meet the demands of the countries economic security by effectively committing economic suicide.
Climate change legislation is far, far more of a threat to our future than any deficit but the fools that run our country are far too stupid to even consider the possiblity.
Once people twig the riots on the streets of London witnessed on Saturday will pale into insignificance. People hate being lied to but that is exactly what is happening. - What U-turn Howard.
There has not been a u-turn on EMA at all. You simply could not be more wrong.
It was always intended for there to be a replacement that was more targetted than the old EMA and that is what has been done.
Originally £110m was allocated for it and an additional £70m has now been provided. This extra cash seems to be as a sop to the LDs. - One must ask oneself why they bothered messing about with the EMA at all in the first place. The thing was running well and lots of local kids benefitted from it here in Dover. They have saved hardly any money at all but succeeded in mere edge tinkering and upsetting everyone in the process.
The problem here lies with Gove. He started off with firebrand new broomism. Cutting back the school building programme, cutting school books, cutting sports activities, cutting out the EMA, introducing parents to the notion of running their own schools.
I mean none of that has worked. He has had to backtrack on almost everything he did... re-introducing partially what was there before.
The problem here was that David Cameron started out giving Ministers free reign. He didnt want to do a Tony Blair where everything was run from Downing St, but gave Ministers scope to go and get on with it. The problem is they cannot get on with it like that while still having a cohesive central plan.
Cameron has now changed his mind and gone more like Blair in that he has centralised everything...the hope is that he can limit the media damage done to his government by the likes of Caroline Spellman of fruitcake Forests Fame, and in fact by Gove himself, who looks increasing out to lunch in so many ways. - You could not be more wrong PaulB.
Cameron is far from 'centralising everything' for one thing. Localism and devolving responsibility is central to everything the government is doing.
You, like Howard, have clearly bought the Labour spin about EMA - £110m was set aside for its successor when he did away with it and all that has happened is that an extra £70m has been allocated to the scheme. Hardly backtracking or a u-turn.
EMA is one of the many Labour big mistakes, a costly bribe of dubious value that should have been scrapped all together.
It was LD pressure that kept about a third of the EMA spend in the budget for a successor scheme targetted only to families on income support. Now to keep the LDs happy and to give these twerps a win he has allocated another £70m so only about half that budget has been saved.
Gove's scheme is an example of more decentralisation, incidentally, as schools are being given a much larger say in who gets a large proportion of the money. Another example of how you are so very wide of the mark.
Labour dont like that of course, they want all the money to be distributed by central dictat. Centralisation is not just a Blair trait, central top-down control and command ha always been Labour's way right back to the ill-conceived implementation of the NHS and nationalisation in the 40's. - £2 billion on the green investment bank as announced in the budget speech.
£110 million for the EMA.
Give them the money. Ok so they spend it on playstation games and downloading mobile phone apps but at least their having fun whilst doing it. Far better that than wasting money on the GIB.
It's one big con and the only people who will profit from this bonkers bank for ecoloons are David Cameron's friends in the city who will fleece us all.
Give them the money. - barry
you may see the yellows as "twerps", without them your party would still be in opposition.
the more i read of the current arrangement dave and nick seem to be happy with things as they are and view this coalition being extended at the next election.
the backbenchers are in sulk mode but they know they are sidelined by the ruling clique. - The trouble being that there is very little to choose between all of them. They all represent roughly the same outlook and are very limited in what they can do to improve things being willfully hamstrung by Europe.
The worst of it is that the majority of people fall for the line that Cameron is eurosceptic. Of course intelligent people know the reverse is true but such is the way things are and why spin doctors and political advisors are so well regarded in the upper echelons of all the parties. I mean why else would Cameron employ Phillip Blond as his chief advisor if he were not some sort of crypto liberal?
It all makes sense in the end. - mr blond is a brilliant essayist and deep thinker.
just what we need to get the country out of a deep hole!! - Lol Howard it took a while to sink in but then I burst out laughing. I thought you were serious for one moment. Excellent!
On a more serious note I read today that a Norwegian oil company called Statiol is reconsidering it's position regarding a £3 billion development in the north sea following the windfall raid announced in the budget.
To quote one industry insider,
...." had more faith in the tax regimes of African governments than in the UK administration" as quoted in the Mail earler today.
All rather worrying really.
- The only thing that needs to be cut is the oxygen supply to the bunch of morons who work at Westminister.
We are doomed. They're like an unruly bunch of hyperactive sixth formers than real leaders and are leading this nation of ours down a road towards financial armageddon.
I hate to say this but bring back Labour. At least they had some sort of professionalism where it concerns financial matters or at least gave the appearance. - From today's Mail.
"Families could see energy bills soar by £434 a year as it emerged ministers underestimated the cost of rolling out a new smart meter system.
When the installation of the meters in every home and business was given the go-ahead in May 2009 the cost was put at £9billion.
But this week it was revealed that the cost of installing the devices in some 53millions homes between 2014 and 2019 will reach £11.3billion.
Now what were we talking about? Ah yes cuts and the deficit. Where to start eh? - governments are never any good at purchasing anything.
n.h.s. computer systems, i.d. cards spring immediately to mind, now this meter fiasco.
at the end of the day it is not their money that they are spending.
this post should please barry!! - Good points there Philip,also would they have cut back the army,Royal navy,and the RAF ,like the blues have done? it is a no to that,by now we would have new war ships and planes,and the Army numbers would not have got cut back and we are at war.I am lost for words, they must go A.S.P.
- Vic, warships, army, RAF? Are you mad? That's so last century. Today's war is the war on the climate. It's all around us. It's horrifying! Reds under the beds? Religious fundamentalism? Pah!
We face a terrifying scenario over the next couple of years a world too unimaginable to even contemplate.
Luckily Dave and Chris are on the case and will lead from the front only they, ahem, are using our money to do so.
So the next time you hear a tory talking about the debt and the massive deficit bear this in mind. For every cut in our services, schools, police force, hospitals everything think to yourself that it's all worth if because the money saved will help contribute to the cause.
When your energy bills go up, when you see windfarms springing up all around you, solar panels on the neighbours roofs, billions every year going to fight the good fight you can feel reassured with a nice warm glow inside that right is on your side.
One thing of note to mention about these meters Howard is that it is highly likely that these meters, alongside all of the wind turbines and solar panels we have will be manufactured abroard.
That gives you something to think about when the tories tell us all that the future lies in the green economy. - .......Yes indeed I can confirm that each and every of the 30 million smart meters will be manufactured in
China. - Firstly i don't think we should underestimate the power of public opinion, i understand barryw doesnt want t bring himself to say the London demonstration was a good turn out and well organised, because it was the TUC organised it.
he may live to regret that cos there were many followers of his own party on that march.
althiough i may have concerns over the peoples port, i never the less came on here supporting the turn out,
shame our baz couldnt have been man enough to do the same on the london demonstration.
With regard to the EMA this has helped many of our youngsters bridge that gap, and any moves to withdraw from it would cause severe hardship to many
just a few pointers as we go
- Keith - the demonstration was not representative of either public opinion or the reality of the financial situatioon facing the country.
It does represent the division in this country where we have a cosseted public sector that was protected from the impact of the recession under Labour with the whole burden falling on the private sector.
Now that burned is to be shared with the public sector and quite rightly so.
We will never return to a healthy and sustainable economy with a public sector amounting to 53% of GDP. It is a drag on business and growth - real growth where it is needed that is.
A demonstration of about 150,000 people (the most authoratrive figure rather than the inflated BBC numbers) will not and must not be listened to. They merely represent a vested interest. - barryw
sorry cant share your view on this one
your figures way out on attendance, the BBC has nowt to gain by inflatng figures it's a easy for them to say a poor turn out etc
and even if it were 150,000 which is was far than this
then voices should be listerned to, and you ignore all this and you are heading for even more troubles.
but i understand we won't ever agree on this subject - The BBC Keith has an inbuilt left wing bias that influences it to boost figures such as this and to play up these rather inadequate cuts to something more.
Plenty of BBC insiders are coming out to reinforce that.
Of course these 150,000 should NOT be listened to. they are blind to economic reality and the facts of life. You get nowhere if you do.
- On that subject.
Michael Buerk said yesterday:
"The BBC's staff are uniformly middle class well-educated, living in North London, or its Manchester equivilent...
The Guardian is their bible and political correctness their creed...
'''Autocues, 'elf 'n' safety', the Corporations pathological aversion to risk of any kind, its culture of conformity''
He spoke about an inbuilt institutional bias, contempt for business and the countryside, an uncritical love affair with environmentalism.... - BARRYW
Rather than try to reach any kind of agreement which clearly you never will
that said your wrong on the figures
and you ignore the millions protesting (the governments)
the bakllot box will punish your party - Good morning each and Barry.
What with the Blue drive to cull whole industries from areas of Britain, the Red push to get the jobless figures down any-which-way it is just as well that the public are all so ready and willing to take the blame.
"private insurance cover"
You may have friends in the insurance 'trade' Barry and perhaps would not countenance friendship with any but the severest disabled person, but really does it always have to be about you-you-you?
Would it not be more honest to guarantee a 'retainer-fee' to each of working age and then press ahead with seeking full employment?
Naturally, being a middle-man yourself the tendency has to be to point-up the short comings of all other forms of parasite and scrounger and bathe yourself and your ilk in a soft peachy light
"They also fight who stand and wait." Barry. - the blog refers to one claimant with a very mild condition, it does not refer to the many claimants with serious sometimes terminal conditions that taken off of incapacity benefit.
the claimant knows that if he/she does not turn up for the assessment the benefit is stopped, if they do turn up then they are told that they must be fit for work. - I am not a 'middle man' Tom, I am paid by my clients to advise them based on the level of service that they want. Mostly that advice in regarding investment.
An insurance based system would be better for the individual who is off-work ill as well as the taxpayer. As I have said the payment conditions for the right policies (own occupation) are better than for long-term incapacity (all work).
We are all paying far too much to have such overly generous state support. That means state spending is far too high and forms a millstone around the neck of business. If we want a more prosperous economy from which everyone can benefit then we need to reduce that 'deadweight' of the State to below 30% of GDP from 53%.
Keith: I disagree regarding the ballot box. Ultimately getting the economy back working will be rewarded in the ballot box.
What you are really doing is demonstrating the shortfalls of the system in which politicians see public spending as a way to gaining votes so that takes precedence over economic success, which is a much harder route to achieve public favour. Being hard though does not mean its wrong - on the contrary, it is the right priority for a sensible government.
Sadly the weaknesses in our political system means that the government is not cutting nearly enough and certainly will not get us below that key 30% figure. - baryw
as i said we will never agree and thats fine
only time will tell with regard to the ballot box - Barry, you are way out of tune: many employers recruit through work-agencies on the minimum wage bases, without any sickness benefits, holiday money or redundancy; and the workers can be laid off at a moment's notice. They can be told to come one day, and told not to come the day after, but to remain available should the employer need them.
They only get paid for each hour work accomplished.
This is why so many British people find it impossible to find work, because if they get laid off after a month, they have to sign on again, and claim housing benefit again, and usually it takes a month for all that to come through.
Migrants used to $25 a montjh are usually prepared to work for £5.93 an hour, without any holiday money, sickness benefit and work-guarantees in general, which is why so many of them find work here. - Alexander - I have had two sons who entered the workforce through such agencies and you are wrong:
They did get holiday pay
They did get more than the minimum, though not a lot more
They both ended up getting full time jobs as a result with the companies the agencies placed them with.
Having seen it up close its a good system.
That said - what on earth has it got to do with what I said above? - Barry this is a peripheral issue and I can't imagine it has much significance to our economy.
- Barry, if you reread what you wrote above, you'll see that my comment has a lot to do with what you wrote.
As for the plenty of jobs you mention, they are a lot if considered unto themselves as a number, but in comparison to the unemployed in Britain, they are not enough to give employment to even 5% of the 5 million on out-of-work benefits.
Add to this that the vacancies are open to hundreds of millions of people eligible to work in Britain, and at the end you will find that your well to do proposals are like chasing a tiger with a fly-swatt, or chasing a fly with a tank. - with regard to the question of whether prison works, there are two clear answers.
1) yes, because they cannot commit any more offences while they are banged up.
2) no, there is no evidence to show rehabilitation has taken place.
locking people up in a cell for 23 hours a day cn only breed resentment.
the prime minister appointed ken clarke for the very reason that he would cut costs by locking less offenders up. dave has the luxury of the minister of justice taking all the flak on his behalf.
absolutely no chance of a hardliner taking over the job. - HOWARD;
I have commented many times on this and it has fallen on deaf ears(poor old deaf ears lol)
prisons are full to bursting, so each govt has tried to find ways of not sending people to prison, and getting some of the more minor offences person's released.
of course that's ok but put yourself in a position of one of the victims and you might view things a little different.
let's look at some of released, although we could probably go patly along with minor offences.
the northern ireland peace process saw many IRA convicted criminals released in the name of the peace process, whilst it has
brought peace to northern ireland, and the recent incidentin n ireland and the sien fien politicians condeming the killing, it still sticks hard in my throat these same people years back were happy to bomb/kill other innocent people.
but i suppose how else would you get peace.?
anyway
what's your thoughts? - keith
to be honest i would not have banged up the expenses m.p.'s.
they were jailed purely as revenge, not to protect the public.
fraudsters should be given a desk a phone and a computer and told that when they have earned enough for a particuat good cause then their sentence is over.
take jeffrey archer, he could write one of his dire best sellers in about half an hour and it would sell by the millions, no point in jailing him at great cost. - TROUBLE there howard it gives then the impression its okay to brweak the law in certain aspects as you will/can get away with it
- Howard - Archer has written some very good books, First Among Equals is excellent.
Archer though should have been jailed because contempt of court and perjury are serious matters.
Likewise the expenses MPs - its quite right that someone in a position of trust who breaks the law should go to jail. I hope and expect more of them to go the same way.
That said there are some who go to jail who should not - I do agree.
Prisons are full but there is room for more if we drop all the 'human rights' balls and start packing the swine in as they used to do.
Sentences are too short and prison is simply not nasty and uncomfortable enough. Prison Officers and others are not even allowed to call the scumbags scum any more, they are 'clients' now - pathetic.
Make prison a lot tougher and nastier alongside longer sentences then it will work.
As for Ken Clarke - putting him there is a sop to the LibDems As for cutting costs - I am sure there are plenty of ways to do that alongside making prisons nastier places killing two birds with one stone. - Makes me laugh when reformers talk about not sending, for example, white collar criminals to prison. It's as though they see it as a victimless crime but try telling that to the many thousands who have been fleeced by these people.
Another thing that gets me is people's views on sentencing and the lengths of time served.
Most of those banged up would reoffend if the sentence they recieved consisted of one day inside, one month or ten years. For most career criminals it's doable regardless.
Like the education system the punishment system (and let's face it that is what it is supposed to be) has been tinkered with over the years by successive governments who tend to listen to the last expert giving advice and following orders accordingly.
Judging by the way things are going in terms of european laws and human rights legislation things can only get worse. - barry/philip
the public are affected by violent crime, robberies and general attacks on the person.
fraudsters do not keep us awake at night, they should have their skills put to use to recompense the victims and a lot more.
locking them up does not help the victim. - No - but it does punish them, but not enough, and its punishment that is inadequate in this country.
- surely the victims should take precedence?
we have this new thing where victims get to tell about the impact on their lives, not much comfort to them.
better to be compensated by the criminal. - I think you refer to victim panels which is really a sop, gesture politics really, whereby the victim or collective victims in the case of, say, a repeat burglar are heard. I've never been in the unfortunate position of having to use this court option but it strikes me as effective as a way for the victim of crime to tell the world the effect of the crime on their life. All well and good but it is not a substitute for tough sanctions on crimes in general. It shouldn't be a case of either/or.
I suspect that most of those convicted would just sit there laughing inside at the display of heartfelt emotion by those wronged and would nod their head and say the right things and give the impression of remorse. In most cases nothing is further from the minds of the criminal. The only remorse felt is that of being caught in the first place.
Catching the Criminal
The Victorian period saw great changes in how people were caught, arrested and charged to appear in court. The police force, as we know it today, did not exist until 1856. Before then, most places had only an unpaid parish constable to keep order. ...
Witnesses, Lawyers and Juries
A person on trial today will have been arrested and charged by the police. Then the public prosecution service will have decided to bring the case to court. The accused will have access to a defence lawyer and legal advice. Life was very different...
Gaols
During the 19th century, goals' buildings and daily life changed dramatically to reflect the beliefs of the time. Prison regimes came to be based on the concepts of separation, silence, hard labour and moral guidance. The Courts and Judiciary
In the early nineteenth century, court conditions and the treatment of both the victim and the accused was very different from today. Trials in court were often very quick. Prosecutors, judges and jurors had more power and choice than they do...
Sentences and Punishments
The Victorians were very worried about crime. Levels rose sharply towards the end of the 18th century and continued to rise through much of the 19th century. Offences went up from about 5,000 per year in 1800 to about 20,000 per year in 1840.
Transportation
Transportation was an alternative punishment to hanging. Convicted criminals were transported to the colonies to serve their prison sentences. It had the advantages of removing the criminal from society and being quite cheap - the state only had to...
Crime, Poverty and Reforms
At the end of the 18th century it was not just crime that was increasing but also poverty. The industrial revolution made many people rich but for many poor families (both in rural and urban areas) life was the worst it had been for a long time.
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- brian
i think we will live to rue the fact that you now know how to cut and paste. - Ah the old chestbut of prisons. Firstly we have the hang 'em and flog 'em brigade and secondly we have the do-gooders who don't live in the real world and think any form of incaceration is barbaric.
I like to think I am somewhere in between. It's worth noting that Ken Clarke last week announced the privatisation of 3 more prisons.As if this solves the problem.
In Holland ,for example, and for certain crimes they adopt weekend prisons. So for instance a man with a wife,family.job and house works normally Mon - Fri but has to report to the prison at weekend, This serves a few purposes firstly it reduces costs ,keeps the inmate in employment and maintains family life but it does deprive him of his leisure times at weekend. Results show less re-offending using this system. The stick is should they transgress they are transferred to a hardcore secure regime and have to serve the full sentence. More thoughts later... - howard,probably will rue the day.
- I'm not a hang 'em and flog 'em merchant but I do think if we are going to go down the road of seriously hard punishment we could always make an example of Chris Packham.
- Oh well another day, another disaster by Cameron and his master Clegg. Clegg being exposed as a hypocrite in terms of the help he received from his old man and Cameron going on bended knee to confess the crimes of his forefathers and the ills they gave the world.
These two clowns must own shares in Geest as every step the take makes them look more and more ridiculous as each day passes.
What is is with Cameron that he feels he needs to grovel to each and every single leader on the world stage prostrating himself in an act of self flagellation? It's all rather embarrassing really for an Englishman. - nick rather made a fool of himself yesterday with his diatribe about social mobility.
raising university fees was a sure fire way of ensuring that the children of the better off stay at the top.
as for the prime minister every day he reminds me more of tony blair. the latter apologised to the irish for the potato famine.
this grovelling does not mean that we get any more respect from other nations. - Not only that he is in need of a private history tutor. Next he'll be apologising for the UK's carbon emissions and the effect they have on the Asian climate.
- Good morning each and Barry.
Why not cut down on the public subsidy to business and have them carry their fair share of this burden?
Where is the business community? Where is the private sector?
I suspect they are the jangly encumbrances festooning the haversack. Making plenty of noise and ready for the least excuse for a bivouac, ready too to fall off when the going gets tough.
The rich are nothing but spongers who's vision for the future is to take us all back to feudalism.
- Tom - Businesses have been carrying the full burden of the recession with the public sector isolated from the problems until under a year ago.
Now the public sector must share that burden.
We all depend on the private sector to get us out of this mess and only profitable businesses will do it.
You really are talking out of the wrong orfice about the so called 'rich'. The 1% top earners pay 25% of the total income tax take. - Tom I am confused as to where I can find this public subsidy for my business. Before I sell a single meal, pint of beer or B&B room, I have to find enough to cover my mortgage (lots monthly) and business rates (£5000+ per year). Additionally every time I sell £1worth of goods the state gets 17p of it. I cannot dispose of business waste without paying for it and that costs about £2000 a year. Also I have to pay through the nose for professional services to ensure that my legal obligations are covered. Public liability and employee liability insurance, another £1000 a year. Licensing- Bliar promised that the new regime would cost us no more. Instead of £32 every 3 years, it now costs £180 per annum. And if I want to put on a live music event (previously free) it is £21 a go. Subsidies for business? Bah Humbug.
- Peter you are certainly at the rough end of things as small businesses tend to be.
There are shop-keepers and shop-keepers though.
Some wish to enjoy all the benefits of life in Britain, but are willing to spend big to limit what they pay into the fund and are content to hold the country to ransom. This while insisting on preferential treatment and to have ready access to the ear of Government. While big business pushes for lax employment law they give no thought to how much the costs might be for the education and health care their 'flexible' work force requires, not to mention the spending-money such a work force has to put across your bar.
The present proposals for health care reform, for instance are just another way of abstracting funds from the public purse to be deposited off-shore. As to where their surgeons, doctors and nurses are to come from...well that's somebody else's problem.
This sort of thing is anything but wealth creating. It's just rich men on/at the dole. - couldn't agree more about businesses pushing for lax employment laws tom.
the rest of us pay for the health, education etc for the cheap labour and their families. - The best way to cause more unemployment is to make sacking people more difficult.
- Well I must admit I didn't realise that Polly Toynbee had been sent down from her Oxford College for being academically inadequate. Who the hell interviewed her!
Says alot for the state we're in.(pardon the pun!) - barry,why not go the whole hog,banned for life and a 10 year streatch.
- this is not a well thought out idea, the present speed limit on motorways is 70 mph and could well be 80 mph.
i doubt that many motorists are pulled over for doing 80, if the official speed limit was 80 then many people would do 90.
more importantly the speed limit of 30 in built up areas would allow people to drive at 42 without incurring penalties under the new proposals.
that is a recipe for carnage. - Typical of an administration who don't know their backside from their elbow. So they think it's a good idea to raise the limit to breakneck speeds? How does this square with their desperate bid to, erm, save the planet? They really have lost the plot, not that they ever had a plot in the first place. Driving at this speed increased petrol consumption and therefore CO2 emissions and therefore creates a massive, a really massive rise in sea levels. Also this leads to millions of people dying of the climate. The climate is evil and it must be fought.
Joined up government? Joined up lunacy more like.
- Hmmmn. Just been reading about Earache Pickle's fantastic "new" idea to clampdown on the binstasi who check the recycling efforts of the people of the UK. You know the culprits, the peaked hatted jobsworths who inspect citizens bins to ensure the angle of the lid doesn't exceed 22.76 degrees and other such petty infringments.
Well I can only think that there must be a local election imminent in order that Earache spouts his usual Tory rubbish in order to win the sympathy of voters.
- rather fanciful barry, business rates are a cash cow for governments, i don't see them letting it go to local authorities.
- Howard - no they are not, this is certainly not fanciful at all. All the money collected does to go councils plus a lot more - the problem is that in some places, like Dover, we dont get back all the business rates paid here....
Not at all fanciful and if localism means anything they must make councils self reliant for finance. - I thought the Tory was a party of low taxes. When did all this happen? Oh, hang on, it's our old friend and his Mr. Phillip Blond the Tory red.
Oh well, another day, another policy closer to the Labour party. - Phillip. This is not about overall higher taxes but more about who sets those taxes and what the weighting of that tax should be between different businesses.
I have no doubt that these taxes would be lower in Conservative areas than Labour ones - we see this, as a rule, now. - Fair enough Barry but who would set the tax rate in the first place? I suspect that if left to local councils they would charge as much as they could screw out of the supermarkets and therefore the supermarkets would screw as much out of their customers to make up for these extra taxes. In the end it's the guy at the bottom who gets screwed again.
Nope this idea is a non starter. It's public or government bodies interfering in the free market and that's not a good thing. Not only that but where does all this stop? With the rise in internet retail shopping, which has also had a massive influence on high street shops and their decline and will increasingly, is the idea to tax the profits on internet retailers in order to help stave off the decline in high street or even supermarket sales?
Who would set the criteria as to who would deserve to pay less tax? Would a Tseoc or sanibsursy metro shop sited on the high street be considered as a straightforward high street retailer?
It's all too complicated and will inevitably lead to higher prices paid for by ours truly.
Googling Respublica I was drawn to this line in the description of the organisation.
"ResPublica has 7 advisory board members, 4 of whom are the MPs Greg Clark, Zac Goldsmith, John Hayes and Nick Hurd."
I think that says it all, don't you?
- Philip - Councils should set the rate and the policy. That is what local democracy is all about and be answerable for it to the electorate.
Its called democracy and accountability. - Local councils don't even have the power to determine how many times domestic waste is collected regardless of what Earache Pickles pontificates, that power totally in the hands of Brussels. There is little chance of Respublica's ideas reaching fruition.
- Barry, for Gov. to disobey the european Court of human rights could lead to the maximum penalty: expulsion from the EU!
- alex,in your dreams.
- The ECHR is not part of the EU Alexander. Thousands of ECHR findings have been ignored by governments in the past though not before by the UK government.
There is no mechanism for their findings to be enforced.
Compensation awards can also be ignored. - Haven't thought about this subject long and hard.Looked at the plus's and minus's I have reached the conclusion that's it's hardly worth getting one's knickers in a twist about. Give 'em the vote so as to save the taxpayer money in legal fee's and EU fines. The 90,000 votes they hold is unlikely to make any difference or swing the balance of which party gets into power.
And please don't give me the old claptrap of denying inmates of their rights...they already have lost their biggest right - the right of freedom. - Marek
1/ It is nothing to do with the EU, so no EU fines
2/ We can ignore the findings of the ECHR and any compensation along with it. As I said it is unenforcable and many countries have regularly ignored them.
3/ This is about more than the votes matter. It is about unelected and unaccountable foreign judges telling the British parliament what to do. - HELP;
I need the tablet bottle
i find myself agreeing with barryw lol
im afraid i would need much more convincing as to why someone who is in prison an convicted should have the right to a vote,
that should not happen until or unlessthey are back out of prison.
blimey
wheres those aspirins
lol - Barry
My mistake..I was reading your previous posting and typed in EU in error.The fines I am referring to are the compensation claims by inmates and the legal costs associated in fighting them. Already 2 prisoners have been awarded 5000 Euros which will run into millions in a flood of new human rights claims by inmates that are already lodged but stayed until the September deadline.
Finally principles are all very well but not one that this country can afford at the present time. - If you are going to ignore the ruling and the compensation awards then you dont have to fight them either. Indeed if you do ignore them I suspect there wont be any attempts to get compensation by prisoners in the first place. After all these ambulance chasing lawyers would not get paid when the judgements are just ignored....
- BARRYW
I don't the fact that the 2 parties should keep there identities sadly the lib dems didnt, but that said we now look to this latest immigration annoucement by DC And vince cables words, vince wasnt just saying he wasxnt in favour of this new policy, but also was very hard hitting - i don't see a problem with media reporting of splits in the coalition.
if it was one party in power they would highlight differences within the leading and opposition parties, that is their job. - Kenneth Clarke warns today that he will not be diverted from a huge shake-up of prisons and claims that the rate of jail sentencing is “financially unsustainable” and a waste of money. In a defiant interview with The Times, the Justice Secretary insists that he is not “soft on crime”. He agrees with those who believe that community punishments are too weak and says he will toughen them by making offenders do unpaid work for eight hours a day. “I want them to be more punitive, effective and organised. Unpaid work should require offenders to work at a proper pace in a disciplined manner rather than youths just hanging around doing odd bits tidying up derelict sites,” he says.
- I'm sure that if Mr Clarke had been burgled twice last year, as I was, he would have a very different view of realistic punishment for offenders.
Personally I would prefer to see chain gangs and floggings returning. 8 hours work a day is what most people do to keep themselves.
But hey I was only a victim. These poor criminals have been driven to it by unreasonable people like me expecting them to work for a living.
Rant over! - ken clarke is completely out of touch with people, we only have to take a look at the derisory sentences given to violent offenders each day in the papers to know that.
the judiciary are given guidelines on sentencing which are very narrow and fit in with the idea of having fewer prison spaces. - HOWARD
To try to give K Clark the benefit of the doubt, he is facing overloading prison's and has to make some drastic decisions.
there is also the question around is prison right for some people anyway?
is prison effecive.
k clarke is faced with the lock them up brigade, but in reality we dont have the prison spaces to lock them up in
theres also the question of how effective is locking up people
for some it's a must
but for others maybe alternatives could be found.
then of course thers the cost to you and me of locking people up
this debate will go on,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - i disagree keith, let the non dangerous offenders work for nothing in the community and bang up the dangerous ones.
mr clarke claims that a lot community service is very easy stuff, up to him to change it. - sadly that has been happening in pockets of east london for some time. i would think that many major towns and cities have differing degrees of the problem.
despite the ending of the multicultural society a blind eye is still turned to this sort of behaviour by the authorities. - Those pictures above are disturbing. This kind of thing should be stamped out and the people arrested for inciting hatred. Freedom of Speech can only go so far..when it gets offensive and dangerous it is another matter altogether. We are trying to promote harmony, our top priority should be to live in harmony and guys like these are clearly not helping.
And neither do people on the other side of the coin who burn the Koran either.
It was interesting though how France embraced the burkha banning law rather easily indeed. The authorities expected a few low key protests, and that was what they got, just low key protests from a handful and for an hour or two, and now its enshrined in law and all seems okay.
Perhaps if the state takes more of a no nonsense approach things are better. Who knows though what the best route is! - paul
the french decision is a fudge similar to the belgian one.
they fined two women on the first day then nothing since, the french police have said they have better ways of spending their time.
approx 2000 women wear the garment in france, most are indigenous french that married into the religion. - PaulB,
I have no problem with those idiots waving those banners around - it demonstrates what we are up against and shows them up for what they are. There are far more serious incitements to hatred and violence that must be dealt with. I am not sure that the beheading poster would count as that but would certainly do so if it was specificaly identifying victims, i.e. jews, christians, the neighborhood shop assistant who refuses to kow-tow to their demands and so on.
It is when that happens that they should feel the full weight of the law - when its really necessary.
Banning or restricting free speech is a serious and dangerous road to travel. Just where does it stop? Better to err on the side of free speech and let them express their views (drawing the line as I said earlier) rather then creating a situation so they can say they are victims by claiming to be persecuted for their beliefs.
Banning does not work except to help the extremist nutters.
What we need to be doing is taking heed of the menace and set about encouraging integration. Use free speech and freedom against them, but prosecute only those who intimidate and bully like a Islamist version of a protection racket.
It is a very fine line to draw. - HOWARD;
I'M not disagreeing with you, but first we do have a large number of what some would call more minor offences clogging up our jails.
trouble is if your a victim of even minor offences you expect justice, some feel they should be jailed.
we don't have the space to lock everyone up in reality so do need to look at alternatives.
I do also think someone convicted should know the law is against them and once found guilty shouldnt want to break the law again.
so i would go for far harder sentencing when found guilty, boot camps etc.
for many of our PC brigade they wouldn't like it, but we need to also deter people from wanting to go to prison, and view prison as the last place they want to be.
im sounding a bit like a tory lol
wheres me tablets lol - that is what i am saying keith!!
people who affect our lives by burglary, violene and the like should be ball and chained.
minor offenders have to work for us. - Agreed Barry. As some commentators suggest AV would lead to an increase in votes for extreme partys such as the Greens. That would be a disaster for us all.
- There is a newspaper report out today that predicts that the next series of Dr Who could be the last as the audience are left guessing at the cliff hanger finale
- marek,who is this years f1 chapion.lol.
- I was on a train to London about 10 years ago and Dr Who and his companion got on and sat in the seat opposite me in a carriage full of commuters - he explained he only travelled first class when someone else was paying, and the Tardis wasn't available at that time.
- Brian
Lewis Hamilton...lol - I am puting it back on.We need to fight to get our Toilets along the seafront back open,and I am going to keep posting on all sides till it happens.So Barry get on to your leaders in power and tell them to open them up again.
- vic,the answer is rorta loos doted along the sea front and up as far as hollis moters.
- bit of a contradiction there barry, you claim that the "yes to av" campaign is a left wing one, then you go on to say that the majority of red m.p.'s have signed up to to the "no" campaign.
- Good morning each and Barry.
You are entirely justified Howard in stating that twice. Poor Barry seems lost for words of any import.
That the/a backer of the 'Yes' campaign may/will make/earn money from a yes vote is not in the least the same as a Party donor so doing.
But;
Surely the real reason the 'Yes' side will not win is because that was the whole idea, from the get-go.
This whole thing is nothing but 'theatre for the masses', done on the cheap for we shall see nothing of cake, beer or skittles.
The saving grace of this whole sorry affair is that the electorate are not being taken-in by this cheap trick.
Where the facts?!!!
What are the criteria for accepting the 'result'?
What result is the 'result'?
All this Party and Politician posturing, what is it all for?
These money-grubbing, self aggrandising cheap-skates parading themselves, and introducing each other as 'Statesmen'.
Is there anything else going on? I do not think so. - Howard, Tom.
You will find that the term 'left' is not exclusive to Labour.
The only party united in favour of AV are the LibDems and they are certainly 'left' and the Yes campaign is driven by element from the left of centre.
Most specifially those MPs most vociferous in this Yes campaign and the ones attacking the No campaign are all from the left. Clegg, Hughes etc.
The No campaign is more more balanced between right and left. - i agree with barryw on this one(help wheres the pill bottle )lol lol
not so sure you could class lib dems as left any more
not sure what they stand for any more.
not sure why ed gone for AV
lets hope for an overwhelming no vote - quite an unholy allliance here, we have all of the blues most of the reds joining forces with the b.n.p.
does anyone know what u.k.i.p. views are, i checked their webiste and could not find any reference to it? - Left and right are relative Keith. As an old leftie some LDs may not seem very left to you but I can assure you they are not at all right in any sense ofn the word....
- they are trying hard barry, mr alexander will eventually join them and i suspect mr laws will to.
- They may do so Howard one day if they actually see the error of their ways. I remember the great Labour man who did that, Woodrow Wyatt and became a big conviction Thatcherite. It does happen when people mature!!!!
- that can be said baz of tories joining labour no different
happens all the time.
find it difficult to understand how anyone can go from labour to conservative, very very different viewpoints
at the locals, and the general election i face that very dilema
not happy with imposed candidates, but unable to support the only other party likely to win seats in ennough numbers(tories)P
beig damaged personally by the tories and seeing the damage they can do would stop me doing so
and of course having labour in my blood it's very very hard for me both on may 5th and the next general election.
I realise my actions could well have the opposite affect to what i want to see, but i see no other option at the moment - Ah but Keith - it is well known that as people get older they get more conservative both with a big and small C....
- seeing your reference to "big c's" barry it reminded me that lord mantelpiece has entered the fray.
this will make the last week or so very interesting, the prime minister is obviously concerned still about te outcome.
the ludicrous claim about the cost of counting machines smacks of desperation. - Howard -AV cannot avoid being more expensive to count whether that extra expense is counting machines or more counting time at 'double time'. You cannot avoid that. The only places where it will not cost more are those safe seats where the winner gets over 50% over the vote under the current system.
As for Mandelson, what a completely purile contribution he made. Thats is not exactly how anyone of any intelligence at all should decide how to vote on such an important constitutional change. - Barry writes ''...Thats (sic) is not exactly how anyone of any intelligence at all should decide how to vote on such an important constitutional change''.
I think I would even vote that my grandmothers egg custard was disgusting if I thought it would bring down this Tory Taliban govt. - That is a very small minded attitude Marek - I thought you were more intelligent than that.
- Thought I'd try and inject a 'slice' of humour to the thread Barry.
- Marek. I thought you would have learned. Humour leads to a ban on the forum!
- barryw
not correct, more senior (in age)have crossed the floor from tory to labour so that's not correct.
there is a strong no and yes team with very strange alliances in both camps, that said i think the no camp will win this one - Keith - I am not talking about MPs crossing the floor, there are some very specific career path dynamics that influence that.
It is common knowledge that people become more conservative (big and little c) as they get older. You only need look at the voting demographics for that. - Back to the referendum - I see the latest poll extends the No lead from 16% to 18%
- Barry. I note that you have not taken second preference votes into account?
- thought you would be busy canvassing or leafleting bob, only a week to go now.
- As you may have seen on the recent frontpage BarryW the Shadow Minister for Education Gordon Marsden visited Dover the other day. Labour take a different view
..the shadow minister said..
"The Conservative government is cutting too fast "
he said this before the figures were released and indicated that he thought growth would stagnate as a result...it looks like he was right. All commentators on all stations were disappointed that we are still so near recession with just 0.5% above flatlining. Even the 0.5% was considered an anomoly of sorts as it washed over somewhat from the previous quarters excessive snow falls, which inhibited people going about their business.
Mr Marden also said that cutting back so much on the public sector is hitting the private sector, particularly small businesses, many of whom relied on the large public sector for work, for contracts etc.
We are not seeing the fix to these problems yet...where are the private jobs to come from. Oil prices are high, food prices are high...nobody has any money to spend on cars, washing machines, TVs...dining out..etc - Taking advice on the economy from a Labour spokesman is like taking advice on human rights from Pol Pot, Adolf Hitler and Joe Stalin.
It is Labour's high spend, high tax, high borrowing, rules and regulation addiction that made the UK recession into the deepest and longest of any G20 nation and our worse for over 80 years.
We have to go through a pain barrier to break that addiction in order to move forward.
Their claims are just not born out by history or financial common sense. No-one would run their own finances they way Labour advocate running the country's. Their way is the economy of the madhouse. - lots of graphs, statistics and spreadsheets barry.
no mention of the human cost though. - The human cost is paid because of the previous governments mismanagment.
Even if you think their intentions may have been right the result of their incomptence and ill-begotten policies is misery for thousands.
Putting it right and getting the economy working is all about human benefit. Short term pain for long term benefit. - well said paulb
- barry,if labours advice is like what you said, we are going down fast with a karmakarzi pilot at the helm.
- thats good news then,we get our own flag and possably a few grants to help us get over it.might go and get the flag when they become available along with the eu flag as well.
when the flags are available one should be put up on the town hall mast along with one at the castle.
- i would imagine that the people of the "nord pas de calais" will be equally aghast at the attempt to take away their heritage.
i have to agree with barry, it is just another crude attempt by bureaucrats to take away peoples identities. - howrd,i think the oposit,lots of good stuff going on if you read throgh the link.it seems that most countys streaching from kent to cornwall have joined.
- Hmmmn is there an election imminent? It's not as if Earache Pickles knew nothing of these plans fifteen years ago as a Tory MP. In fact the plan was hatched during the Major Governments last days.
It's not a news story, in fact it's not even a new story. It's political showboating at it's finest.
It has had the desired effect with everybody frothing at the mouth and being duped into thinking how outrageous it all is.
Perhaps it's time to learn from this and remember three very important things.
1. Look behind every political story.
2. Never believe the conservatives.
3. Never believe what any political party tells you.
Oh and
4. The tories are as pro europe as the liberals and labour. - very true philip, the first thing that i spotted was the "interreg" thingy.
we had money from them about 8 or 9 years ago, nothing new there, folkestone used their dosh on new paving and street lighting in the old high street area.
i cannot remember what we spent ours on.
the region bit i can remember being threatened with at least 10 years ago. - There have been lots of Interreg projects locally, some of them worthwhile in what they were doing as well as promoting cross-border co-operation, others just doing the promotion.
I was involved in one looking at enhancing development of vegetation on Samphire Hoe with funds from Interreg II, completed in 2000, with a French equivalent group working on their landfill site.
(and having spent half an hour finding the final report and photographing the front cover I've realised as I logged on that there's no image upload here!)
SEEDA was the sneaky precursor to becoming an EU region, good thing it's gone. - if i'm correct prioy station,some of dover seafront to name but two,
- Everyone is missing the whole point of my post - the wasteful EU budget that needs cutting and not increasing. The above was just an example of their waste.
- Nothing new there Barry. Every man and his dog knows about the billions wasted. What makes this particular story interesting is that the Tories knew about it all along and was quite happy to go along with the idea but raise the issue just before an election - an issue which they have no intention or the wherewithall to do anything about.
It's just another case of political kite flying and is therefore meaningless.
Move on, nothing to see here. - Phillip - The Arc Manche was and is common knowledge as I said above. The planned spending in the latest budget and the flag plans are new.
- barryw,its you thats missing the point here i think.so wot if costs a little more but the benifits we get back out way that by shed loads.and dont forget that old saying you got to speculate to acumalate.
- Brian - Governments are having to make cuts, the UK government included and yet the EU keeps on increasing its spending, demanding more and wasting that money. They must be forced to make cuts too.
- barry,cuts are irealvent at the moment,when you get round to seeing how much we get back on these intereg things it out ways the the increase.
- The cuts are very relevent, we are net contributors Brian and the money would also be better spent by the UK not Brussels.
- barry you are missing my point,which is through intereg we are are getting more back than we are putting in.all so it is less of a burden to district and county as the money is provided by intereg to help with regeneration of town centers,for example dover prioy station.
- Brian - money cant be spent twice. We pay far more to the EU than we get back in whatever form we get it back and what they spend is rarely spent well.
- so you are saying that the work on prioy station was a waste of money,what would you spent that money on.and dont say sarnies for dc and his tory cronies.if you do slap your ankles and say 3 hail marys.
- More importantly it seems that Chris seven houses Huhne is set to leave his post as, erm, cough, energy and climate change and gravity and UFO's minister.
The only bad news is that David Laws is the best bet to replace her, sorry him which means that the position still exists which is a shame I think you'rd all agree. - Today it is reported that our chris huhm attacked david C on the AV leaflet requesting david c to distance himself from the no leaflet, but david c declined.
and lib dem leader(at the moment) n clegg, also attacking those in the no camp, oh dear the hatrmony has been destroyed its now open warfare.
lokking like the rift that has been simmering is getting bigger.
not long before it crumbles altogether - Getting excited eh Keith? Don't bother, The LDs might not be up to much but they wont be that stupid to commit political suicide.
- Brian - you do come up with such nonsense. Do read what you have been saying and my replies and think about it before digging yourself deeper and deeper into a hole.
- barry no comment,but will say if the blind man leads the deaf man,deep poo will ensure a nasty end.
- Good afternoon each and Barry,
As the referendum is the sole reason for we in London visiting the polling stations on Thursday and that what is on offer is worthless the only thing that is going to get me out and voting YES tomorrow is your glee Barry. - barryw;
I think your wrong, already lib dems are lining upto attack there leader, but also attack mr cameron.
this is not a healthy relationship, but one that has been simmering for sometime waiting to explode, and the fuse paper has now been lit and for some leading lib dems it will be all to much to then continue the faith.
i dont think it will be long before a leadership challenge is mounted in the lib dems, i think after getting badly battered at the local elections up and down the country lib dms will be calling for clegg to go.
you can hear the touch paper sizzling,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, - Brilliant news Keith! If what you say is true and there is to be a leadership bid within the limpdems that can only mean one thing and that is that your friend and his, none other than seven houses huhne will run. By jove that is excellent news.
If, indeed, he is elected leader that's even less votes for this party whilst he remains in charge being the useless politician that he is judged by most sensible people (though not the limpdems of course) to be.
We can only hope and pray.
And with the intellectually challenged one on the other side of the house in charge of labour things might go even better for the right next time the only fly in the ointment being the leader of the tories who one can imagine fitting very nicely as leader of any of the two other parties. - Incidentally I, too, shall be voting no tomorrow. If it ain't broke don't fix it I say.
- Barry, don't write off Brian's comments. His last post was worthy of Confucius. Or.....Eric Cantona.
- peter,thanks for the compliment.
- PHILIP(Dover) you obviously dont want to be identified, but clearly come from the right of the tory party, recognising that mr cameron wont be able to hold his right wingers together to uch given to lib dems.
mr cameron hoping for an outright victory, but even that is in doubt.
todays results will see as predicted lib dems lose 100's of council seats and lib dems turning on there leader
a lib dem leadership challenge
plus much more
this is just the start of the crumbling of the cobbled together govt(thankfully) - You and your fantasies Keith! They equal a nightmare for the country...
- barryw
I usually only tell you once, but you made your point lol
no fantasy, but lets watch it all develope
i wont gloat lol - barry,you didnt spesify wot day,you just added to the confusion by saying 4pm.
- Labour have fallen well short of expectation in Wales. They were expected to gain an overall majority but did not do so. Conservatives have gained two seats.
Their Scotland result is a unmitigated disaster for them.
English Councils, with half of seats reported they do not look like gaining anywhere near the 1,000 needed.
That plus his ill-judged support for Yes means a very bad day for MilliMinor and for Labour as a whole.
Incidentally - amazingly Conservatives still making net seat gains and council gains from such a high base, just staggering. Surely it just can't go on as well as this. - Blimey - From an existing peak about 50 net councillors gained for Conservatives - that is an unexpected pleasure, councils gained too.
I really did not expect that even in my wildest hopes.
Now the referendum - BBC predicting well over 70% No vote - again a much better result than I expected. Can we make it 75%? - well acutuly 68%no vote barry.please pay more attention,a 32%said yes to av.
- I was referring to a BBC prediction Brian - once again you did not read what I actually said.
- BARRYW
Be fair m old mucker i realise this is a tory blog but put some unbias stuff on it.'
we will both agree and as expected the lib dems are in meltdown
you are probably correct that clegg will want to hang on for as long as possible, the problem clegg has is lib dems up and down the country are up in arms over his poor leadership and sell out
even in his own lib dem cabinet friends turning on him
much as clegg im sure will try to hold it together i don't think the splits over A.V. with comments by cameron will help
and im sure will bring clegg down - The Scottish result is most interesting. SNP now have an overall majority in the Scottish parliament and have pledged a referendum on full independence during the next parliament. If that happens, and if Scotland does become independent, that will remove 55 reds and one blue from Westminster. Do your arithmetic !
- will not happen, voting for the snp and voting for independence are two very different things.
there are a lot of scots that get very patriotic on burns night, st andrews day and hogmanay, then pragmatism sets in.
they quite like the freebies that the english taxpayer provides. - the snp leader has stated on the early evening news a referendum will be held in 2 and a 1/2 years time.
- It seems that Cleggy is about to launch a new more assertive even aggressive Libdem Party from today. So sayeth the early reports on the radio this morning. Never before has a political party committed such wide scale hari-kari on itself, the self inflicted wounds are massive, so any rumblings of assertiveness is surely pointless. It is akin to an injured mouse lying prostrate on the floor and theatening the elephant towering above him.
"Just wait til I get up off the floor!" says the mouse...but the elephant looks into the mid-distance with indifferent eyebrows raised.
As Uncle Vince said yesterday.."the Conservatives are ruthless and tribal" but they are also clever in that they have pushed the Libdems in front of the roaring cannon of public anger.
The result in all this is that the Conservatives have come up smelling of roses, ermm no not red roses, but a blue tinged variety. They have done extremely well under the circumstances, surprising almost everybody. Labour have done well too but not well enough, so to some extent they are treading water at the moment, waiting for a substantial media breakthrough from Ed Miliband. He is doing better in the House of Commons but in general terms is not setting the media alight.He is struggling to become a household name. Perhaps a stint on Come Dancing would do the trick. - just purely on the SNP the dep leader of the SNP stated in her election speech that she recognised that people from all walks of life voted for the SNP across the countrypeak here.
she stated this included people who do not want independence for scotland so it would be unwise at this time to go down thsat route.
so are we seeing double speak here? - Good morning each and Barry.
Keith,
The issue of 'Independence' for the SNP is as much of a beating-stick as leaving Europe is for UKIP and as such commentators will always try for a quote.
Clearly the Lib-Dem and the Labour voters, if the came out to vote, had had enough for one reason or another plus the Labour campaign left much to be desired.
So, the leap in popularity for the incumbent party cannot be seen as a clear endorsement of their stance on the single issue of Independence. A fact readily accepted by the SNP.
The rational path to gauging the voters stance on Independence and one long accepted by the SNP is by a referendum on that single issue.
From this election it is clear that the voters of Scotland have confidence in the SNP. I do not keep such a close eye on the day to day machinations of the Parliament in Edinburgh, but having a smaller Labour presence there seems to suit the electorate.
Statesmanship? - tom,
I don't disagree with all your view, but rather than point out just some parties, the tory campaign in many areas had a lot missing as well.
All the parties need to step back and recognise the results, i think they are doing so by the interviews on the andrew marr show this morning.
N Clegg is in this for the long term, and im sure he believes that and if he's correct that lib dems across the country want things to stay as they are, with clegg as leader
in reality lib dems not happy with the AV VOTE and how g osbourne/d cameron campaigned.
this may or may not be correct but the membership may not allow him to stay
ed milliband also recognised the bad result in scotland which labour needs to re build on but that said labour voters up north that deserted labour have returned and labour can continue it's rebuilding programme.
taking nothing for granted think hes taking a sensible route
george osbourne of course was over the moon even though they are the major p;arty making these cuts the electorate turned only on the lib dems.
and the tories rightly should be ver pleased with the result
the only fly in the ointment is not being able to break throughup north or in scotland/wales - ...Keith,
If we must talk 'party' and attend to Barry's drivel, so be it.
The Conservatives:
They got their vote out and others did not. Overstating the expected losses and then claiming great things because the stated calculations were way wide of the mark is precisely the MO that has brought us to our current sorry pass.
It may work for getting bonuses, and has so worked to the country's detriment, but they have little to cheer about. Really.
The LibDems:
Their voters are far from pleased. Their result is no real surprise.
AV, This was a dumb idea from the get-go. The NO result is meaningless. Only now will any real conversation be had about voting/electoral reform. It is easy meat for commentators and they thrive upon such fare. This issue shall come back to haunt all the players in the game.
The Labour Party:
As with the seemingly inherent duplicity between the two 'main' partys all that I have said about the Tories can be said about New Labour.
All is inter-party sham-squabbling and is never meant to involve the electorate.
Their vote is the default in Wales and the north of England. There is nothing like the SNP anywhere other than Scotland.
So, what of the aftermath?
The coalition HAS suffered a major blow. The Libdem vote could easily bounce back if their involvement in the Government and their opportunities to get out are handled well. DC will have to be more that canny in his dealings with this seeming dead-dog.
As ever Barry is a simple soul and a true Cameronite. This incessant talk of, "dealing with the economic problems in particular" shall not help the re-election prospects of Dave, Nick or Ed.
More of the harm resultant from the cuts shall be felt now that these elections are over. This is the easy bit...
BUT
Where are the jobs?
To continue to talk of pleasing the money-markets at all costs will not deliver votes come the ever-imminent General Election.
Dave can cut, Dave can spend...we are yet to see the least sign that Dave can deliver. - interesting post tom, one glaring error though, barry is not a "cameronite", i think he sees him as a bit "wet" for not cutting jobs and services further.
in paragaph 4 you speak of the coalition, it will continue but without the grovelling complicity of nick clegg.
up to now he has just gone along with dave thinking that he was his "bestest friend", he knows differently now. nick will put the squeezes on dave over the n.h.s. to save face.
i predict dave backtracking again on the reforms. - Happy Europe day everybody.
- and a happy europe day to you philip.
as a thought should today be a bank holiday as well. - It's a Bank Holiday Monday over here Brian. Liberation Day.The islands occupation by the Germans ended 66 years ago today.
- i have never heard of europe day.
- mare,lucky you.just wish that the uk would get there act together and these bank holidays sorted.
for exanple st,georges day along with the other 3 saints,ve day,vj day etc. - Great idea Brian, the more "days" the better. For instance, like international talk like a pirate day perhaps the government could introduce a "Say silly things like Caroline Spelman does" day after todays outburst where she warned that wifi connections and railways could be destroyed through climate change.
Or perhaps a "blame somebody else like Chris Huhne does" day where anything that goes wrong is blamed on your nearest neighbour or minion if it goes wrong in the workplace.
I'm sure there's hundreds of these days that could be invented.
"Let's pretend to be a eurosceptic tory leader" day?
The world is our lobster. - philip,good idea why not through in philips a tory day as well.
- Nah sounds like a silly day really. I'm certainly no Tory. In fact I don't support any political party anymore. There really is nothing to choose between any of them. Any political party which is willing to forgo the nations continuous energy supply for the sake of a religion does not deserve the support of any citizen.
Any party which subverts money from the poor in order to put it directly in the pockets of the rich all for the sake of a religious belief do not deserve the support from any citizen.
Any party which has the tools to power a nations electricity and other energy supply with cheaper and abundant energy supplies and is willing to impoverish further those who are unable to afford to pay their energy bills all for the sake of a religious belief do not deserve the support of any citizen.
So no brian why should I be foolish enough to support any of these clowns? - philip
you are getting a tad obsessional lately, messrs huhne and spelman are merely peripheral figures.
the main game involves dave, george, nick and andrew.
i suspect that the latter will be sacrificed at the altar of u turns.
loved the lobster joke, arthur daley if i am not mistaken. - Scotland and England are two constituent countries, Barry, of Britain. The Scottish People and the English People are part of the British Nation.
Now Barry, the Scots had North Sea oil, and never begrudged all Britain an equal share in it, and they shared the North Sea gas with all constituent countries of Britain too.
The Scots, dear Barry, are great people, and do not owe England one penny. If it hadn't been for Scotland's oil and gas, Britain would have gone bankrupt in the late 70s, and had to ask the IMF for massive loans.
In fact, I can remember when the 1970s Labour government was organising an IMF loan for Britain, and that was just when Scotland's oil and gas fields were being set up to start production.
The revenues from Scotland's oil and gas paid off the IMF loan and many other expenses, and were the determining factor that later enabled Mrs. Thatcher, as prime minister, to renounce having to revert to further IMF loans.
And in the mid 70s, when Scotland's oil-fields were about to be exploited, the Scots had a vote on autonomy, and voted for the continuation of the Union as it had been until then.
The Scots did not abandon the rest of Britain, and certainly did not seek to break away from Britain, even though they could have become mightily rich if they had!
If they had, England, Wales and Northern Ireland would have become a Third World country dependent on IMF loans, which would have got higher all the time.
England wouldn't even have had an air-force any more, let alone a navy! Who do you think paid for everything, Barry?
The Scots!
Scotland is one of the few Countries worth living for and, if need be, dying for, as is England and other British countries. - Alex
Get a grip..one fundamental flaw in your argument . The oil found offshore of Scotland belongs to the UK not Scotland. Therefore whether or not the Scots vote for Independance matters not a jot to the declining UK oil revenue. - There are many flaws in Alexander's argument Marek. The simple fact remains that Scotland per capita soaks up more of UK Public spending than England and therefore constitutes a very large proportion of the deficit and therefore debt burden. One calculation I have seen shows Scotland's share of debt as 100% of its GDP...
Regardless, if the border between Scotland and England were to be drawn in the manner of the normal convention of establishing them by extension out to sea, then most of the oil would be on the English side.
By the way Alexander you are wrong on some simple facts to be pedantic.
Britain is England and Wales
Great Britain is England, Wales and Scotland
The United Kingdom is England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.
- Good morning each and Barry,
Dear Barry, you are fast becoming Dover's Bob Monkhouse. Your arguments, like his jokes, are "oldies but goodies".
Funny how the incessant follies of GB never quite hit the staunch opposition that dog Dave's wheezes. As I have remarked previously Dave and Georgie-boy were, while in opposition, beside themselves with envy with nothing more than the odd policy-tweak to offer.
Let us not forget the major political personality who told the nation that "debt is good", who equated down-payment with ownership, who encouraged council house sales, who made unemployment benefit taxable (so while increasing unemployment ensured zero tax rebate) and who began the fallacy of house prices ONLY going up; your old friend the Baroness.
IF ONLY it was emphasised from the get-go that a deposit does not buy a property BUT only begins 25 years or so of DEBT (the interest payments on which are but a mere plaything of the market)
BUT NO. What the country got was an officially sanctioned Pyramid Scheme with absolute oodles of 'fairness' as many council tenants were to be/feel enriched right off.
Barry, as your erstwhile co-professional ol' Bernie Madoff knew, as you know, as Dave & Georgie-boy, Tony, Gordon and Alistair knew. The thing with a pyramid scheme is to get in quick and get out quick. Otherwise you bet hope against hope...ever watchful for an "export led recovery" to start.
BUT as every horse racing punter can tell you; there is a great deal that can and does go wrong between being at the start and being in the race from the 'OFF'.
You do well Barry with your 'Play-Dough' politics. When we all know you'd far rather the old Thatcher-train set was back fixed and on the track, but life is cruel.
If only some of our ever-ready funny-money had been 'spent' in off-setting the fantasy house price inflation rather than going directly into bank bonuses. For, while there is negative-equity there is reliance on money that was never there.
Thatchers dream has come true..."Debt for debt's sake."
Implying, as you again do, that credit card consumerism was customer led and not as; successive governments, successive parliaments, sanctioned and promoted is typical old-style Tory. You never stray far Barry.
Blame the weak, blame the poor, figures tweak and slam the door.
So there we have it.
The self-promoting, self-aggrandising, self-deceit that took off in the eighties and brought us all to our present sorry-pass is still the ONLY string to the UK-parliamentary and UK political party bow.
P.S.
"export led recovery"
Is it the Fleet Air Arm or the RAF that is charged with delivery? - Tom,
What an interesting perspective on a near 30year old philosophy/policy or whatever label you wish to place on it.
I grew up as a huge fan of the Lady as the message I received from her was “Work hard and take personal responsibility for yourself. Don’t expect to be bailed out by the state.”
I did that, which included taking advantage of loans and purchasing my home.
The important part that most people forgot was to take personal responsibility and they took out debts that, without assessing any risks, they could not pay back.
Government philosophy/policy of “new” labour did not change much when they came in and they worked the same style agenda for a number years. Till they had to find something of their own. Blaming “Thatcherism” for all the woes of all those who wanted to live on debt with little thought of payback is not really legitimate.
The issue of sale of housing stock (along with privatisation) is also cross party so hanging that around Thatcherism is not really a robust part of any debate.
I’m sure others will have a different view.
Although a glance around Dover will show that my view was and is not shared by many. - GRAHAM M;
I'm sure those that watched closely our iron lady some woul have a very very diffrerent approach to the one you share.
The coal mining industry being one
unions another
the list is endless.
the issue of council house sales, is maggie was the one that started the ball rolling, with political viewpoints that people owning there homes would be more likely to vote for her.
but even without that, what has happened is once you sell off the cream you end up with the stuff you cant sell,
and thats where we are close to now.
then on the privitisation route, yes our iron lady loved privatising everything that moved, but with that came problems around private companies undercutting each other and a poor service given.
i could go on and on, as i have long memories of that woman who nearlly destroyed me
and i'm a worker, home owner, etc but she nearly got her claws in me.
so i hate the woman but there you go we all have a view - Keith,
As you say we all have a view. I come from a long line of coal miners, both Kent and Welsh, so I have an almost hands understanding of those points of view.
I also worked for BR at the time it was going thro' privatisation and in the railway subsequently. So I also have an understanding of what privatisation really means. So direct experience.
A more commercial view of council house sell offs was that the housing stock was in a poor condition and getting worse (increasing costs). The way to improve it, it was thought, was to let it's tenants own it and take responsibility for it.
In fact the approach failed, I believe, because of greed at all levels. Hanging the blame on Thatcher is just an excuse for others not taking responsibility for themselves.
As you put it she did get her claws into me and I took personal responsibility, worked hard, got no handouts and retired comfortable but definitely not rich.
There were other aspects of her approach i did not feel comfortable with so I could not be considered an acolyte. - graham;
i share some of your views
i also worked at tilmanstone
and on the railways for 25 years
as a matter of interest - Barry, the name for England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is: The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
The short names are: 1) the United Kingdom, 2) Britain.
Scotland is a part of Britain. Britain is a short name for Great Britain. - Here is an article title from the Telegrph:
"Scotland prefers to stay part of Britain, despite Alex Salmond's bluster"
The Telegraph is a reputable source, and not only gets the name BRITAIN right, but also excludes the idea that the Scots are seeking to separate from Britain.
- Graham,
"Don’t expect to be bailed out by the state.”
So who do you rely upon? Is the house you bought 'worth' more now than when you bought it?
Did you not then rely upon inflation rather than the state?
Would the first house someone bought be sold at a profit to help them buy a bigger, better house and so on...?
Where did this 'profit' come from?
Did this profit not come from those following along behind agreeing to pay more? Did the house prices not go up because there were more people agreeing to pay more? Were not these first-time buyers sold the virtue of house ownership by parliament, the banks, investment consultants and many others who were themselves earlier buyers-in to the scheme, who arranged things so as to be paid their cut up-front? Al of this to help keep the pot boiling?
You are entirely correct that the 'state', certainly under Thatcher, other Conservatives and their acolytes-New Labour, cannot be relied upon.
Not while this 'state' can extol the virtues of eternal house-price inflation, to the greater benefit of those that get in on the ground floor or are themselves involved in keeping the system going and who vote Tory/Tony.
The state too cannot be relied upon to order the financial sector when it's minions are an integral part of that sector and who's MP's are making money from this 'scheme' hand over fist and milking the expenses system for all and more than it is worth. Dig-it, "all and more".
So, Graham on who and/or what do you rely when you are not relying on the state?
Let's face it. It IS the state that has ensured that you profit while you sleep. You may not, even so, 'rely' upon house price inflation. You may spread the worry by taking advantage of the tax-breaks that the state sees are made available to you.
BUT
Naturally, whatever you may do. However you may get by. The help you get, while it may stem from state policy, is not to be seen as "relying on the state". Oh no. By that phrase you mean the mean, know what I mean?
"Doubles all round." As Private Eye puts it. - Tom,
Sorry you lost me.
Your previous post I thought I understood. This last one is just beyond me and makes me wonder if I really understood the first.
You seem, to me, to be confusing government with state and /or private sector and decisions with obligations and/or responsibilities.
But as I said you lost me. - With respect to both Alexander and Barry Williams can I suggest you read "The Isles - A History" by Norman Davies. I have dipped in and out of this wonderful book and am now starting from the beginning to get the whole story as it should be read.
This is a reputable source.
Unfortunately on a reputable source level the quote of a Telegraph journalist must rank at the same level as a Marvel Comic. - About time house prices fell. They've been artificially over-valued, and I guess many people haven't been able to keep up with the mortgage.
- Graham, I'll look into finding that book.
Meanwhile, you might like to read: The British Isles in the Neolithic Stone Age, you can google it.
It has been credited with many links, including The Independent, an Irish magazine. - Alexander, thank you for the title which I found fairly easily.
It was a little light for my tastes,
My preference for this type of reading is for the meatier content of the book I quoted, in modern books, or something like the Edward Anwyl's book "Celtic religion in Pre-Christian Times." (in older books)
Both books taking you on a detailed journey in a robust style.
Which more readily appeals to my analytical engineering trained mind. - Of-course books offer more detail, Graham, but an article can serve as an introduction to its readers and encourage them to read books on the topic.
The editing company who I write for publishes articles of 500-1000 words, but links inside the article can offer further information, such as the ones I included to Skara Brae in the Orkneys, Stone Henge, Ireland and Wales.
Yesterday I received 22 dollars from Canada on article revenue, as there are plenty of readers. - Alexander, as I said it's a matter of taste.
I prefer to go to the original source information and rarely read an article on a subject. In doing so I get the original authors interpretation of his research before I form my own opinion.
Only after I have source information do I feel comfortable to debate a point.
Third party interpretation of original work in articles is not really challenging. As you say it's merely a taster for the real thing. - Graham, authors of paper-print books face upfront expenses and usually don't get a financial return, I don't have this problem. The Company has one year digital rights over the articles, after which I can group them into e-books and offer them far and wide in many different ways, while the original articles will still remain online. It's an investment into the future with perpetual royalties all the way round.
Now back to Barry.
Barry, I think before long the Conservatives will be able to stand it alone after a general election, and they'll be no need for LibDem pro-EU tomfoolery, as the LibDems are unlikely to get into Parliament in the next legislation period.
The LibDems live in cloud cucu land.
I hope the Tories know what to do once the time comes round, and put an end to the EU here once and for all! - Well presumably if there were moves to finalise this latest wheeze then, as we were assured by David Cameron himself, the country would be given the opportunity to vote on the issue one way or another - a referendum in other words. After all it was Mr. Cameron who gave his cast iron guarantee that no more power would be handed over to Brussels without such a vote. I have to say that I don't hold out much hope for this to manifest itself judging by past experience when it comes to this latest administration and Europe.
I'm not the only one judging by John Redwood's thoughts on the subject.
The Irish are opposed as it fails to pass the subsidiarity test but will not doubt cave in now that they're in hoc and know which side their bread is buttered as well as their part in the Lisbon treaty fiasco.
Nopeo this is a done deal and the harder part is for David Cameron to try to persuade us that he tried his hardest but his hands are tied by previous legislation there's nothing he can do oh it's awful but we the conservatives will fight and win the next battle onwards christian soldiers green and pleasant land if only we could arrange another royal wedding to take people's minds away from this awfulness blah, blah, blah.
As for Zac Goldsmith and his brave early day motion over fish discards and the CFP he'd be better off having an altogether different type of early day motion for all the good it will do him. - I must admit Cameron has done well...you only have to look at the recent elections to realise the Tories have come through this very tough period smelling of roses. How did they do it? as its against the run of normal practice. They quite clearly are good at media spin as they have managed to convince joe public that the swingeing cuts are needed.
They have tactically hung the hapless Libdems out to dry ensuring that they get all the flak, but the Libdems dont appear to see it...apart from Uncle Vince Cable who said the Tories are "tribal and ruthless"...but he still likes working with them.
A great list of glowing comments there above from BarryW, but it must be pointed out that writers like Max Hastings and Peter Oborne come from the very right wing side of the political spectrum.
Ed Miliband has not set the public alight. Labour's results in the recent elections showed some increase but no real breakthrough. However it's early days for young Miliband and he seems to be gathering momentum. He is engaging in his own way, and is scoring some good points at Prime Ministers Questions in the House. So, better days ahead for Labour. - This is all well and good but tomorrow he will announce the launch of his "green deal" which will well and truly put paid to any long term recovery hopes for the UK save for those in the climate change industry who stand to profit very well from it.
From here on in it's all downhill. Sorry but that's the way it is.
Hold onto your hats for a bumpy ride and scream if you're not enjoying it.
I'd give him 1 out of 10 personally. - philip.should that read minus 1.
- Philip, oil is becoming more expensive, and probably will be running out one day. What then?
- Alexander to answer your question it depends who you listen to and who you believe. Looking back in history "experts" in the field have been predicting peak oil since the earliest days of oil exploration. Regardless of whether you believe that oil is fast running out I'm all for using this resource as best we can so research into making cars more efficient as possible is to be encouraged. Oil is relevant to transportation, the creation of plastics and it's use in fertiliser products amongst other uses and is not really part of the energy mix in terms of heat and power. There we have God given resources such as coal, nuclear, gas and the big game-changer which is shale.
What has complicated this question is the notion that We are changing the climate through our use of fossil fuels. Gullible politicians such as our own esteemed David Cameron and that car loving minister for gravity and 9/11 conspiracies Chris Huhne have sadly fallen into the trap of believing this most simplistic of notions.
As I pointed out earlier today the green deal was heralded in the commons which, in essence, leaves us in a position where we are committing collective economic suicide by way of reducing our carbon emissions. No other country in the world is willing to take such an extreme position on this issue as we are. Essentially it is a process of de-industrialisation never witnessed before in the history of Mankind. It reminds me of a cult similar to the Branch Davidians who swallowed, en masse, cyanide laced coolaid.
They believed the line that they must kill themselves as the world was closing in and in much the same way this is what we are witnessing today, a collective swallowing of the coolaid.
Your energy bills will increase by hundreds of pounds a year, the countryside will be despoiled by useless wind turbines, you will pay more for every single item you buy in the shops because of the impact these measures will surely bring. Millions of poor people without jobs or in jobs earning low pay will subsidise those who have enough cash to buy solar panels and earn hundreds and hundreds of pounds each year through the feed in tarrif scheme.
Frankly it's disgusting and I'm only suprised that political parties which include labour and the liberals are willing to impoverish the needy in our society for the sake of deeply flawed scientific theories.
But there you have it. Oil is expensive but not necessarily forever. The price goes up and the price goes down but by reading nothing but op-eds from the gloomsters and idiot politicians such as clegg, cameron and milliband in this world I'm not suprised that you have this worry close to heart.
Pour a drink and try not to worry about it. I don't. - PAULB'
I think your grasp on the political scene is spot on, the tories have one realy well to lay all the blame on there decisions onto the lib dems.
The lib dems selling there soul won't help them, any a few years in govt may well see the lib dems wiped out in many parts of the country.
a lot of local and national lib dems are now calling on clegg to distance himself from the tories of face meltown
which clegg has promised to do(see latest view on clegg to oppose the govt on NHS reform)
will need a lot more than that, i think they have already destroyed themselves, but's lets see if he can pull it round before the cobbled together govt crumbles.
Then of course we also have fiddler Laws telling lib dems to lay off the tories!Q!!!!!!!!!!(is he about to jump ship???)
On the labour side, yes they should have done a lot better in scotland and across the country, but they are rebuiling the party and mr milliband is slowly but surely making his mark - Philip, Gov. did well in not opening another nuclear power station in Kent, and is doing well in going for ecological energy.
The future of energy is in wind and water, in particular wind, and so we need turbine technology.
We can't go on polluting the air and destroying nature with fossile energy, it must be dealt with, severely, strictly, in uncompromising fashion!
I trust Gov. will see to this with the same severity they applied to dealing with warplane and warship trash.
There's nothing anyone can do to change it, the campaign must go on!
Kent Green Garden of England! - We need a new generation of nuclear power Alexander - without it the lights will go off. Renewables cannot fill the gap.
- Barry, the Japanese earthquake and tidal wave was a shocker that had people worried, and after that fright, attentions will be turned to ecological power, not renewed nuclear plants.
You can take this as international government policy world-wide. - Alexander that is a very short-sighted view.
For one thing the Japanese reactor was an old type far different from the passive cooling systems in modern designs. A modern reactor would not have had problems with the loss of power. The authorities will not be influenced by ill-informed scares. At least we must hope not or we will be in for regular power cuts.... - Nuclear is the only option that can meet our energy needs in the forseeable future, and is becoming much safer with each generation.
Wind turbines are generally working at only about 20% efficiency in lowland areas where energy demand is highest, they are better in highland regions but then need more power lines to transport the energy, a big issue in Wales at present. And this all means they can need more energy to make than they produce in their lifetime
Coal and oil are finite resources although with modern geological techniques and better utilisation technology they aren't the doom and gloom that the greenies would have us believe. Shale oils are a big untapped resource but are an environmental disaster in the way they have to be recovered, as in Alberta. And although only present in small amounts, all of these contain radioactive elements and over their lifetime fossil fuel power stations can put out more radiactivity than is present in a nuclear plant.
I'm with Richard Attenborough on this, the only way to meet our energy (and food and water) demands in future is worldwide population control, but that's not a popular policy for any individual, government or organisation to promote. - David Attenborough hasn't exactly set a good example in terms of lowering the world's population. He has two children. Smacks of hypocrisy to me on his behalf.
- Ray, it won't happen. Nuclear power plants are too expensive to build, and have a limited period of functioning, only a few decades.
Britain would need about 100-200 of them to be totally suplied with nuclear-produced electricity, a sheer impossibility. - Alexander - nobody has ever suggested using nuclear for all our electricity needs. Most experts quite rightly suggest a mix of different generating capacity that includes renewable and nuclear as well as gas, oil - whatever.
Nearer 10-20, not 100-200 would be sufficient for nuclear as part of the mix. - The Scottish Government, backed by the Scottish Parliament, has said that there will be no new nuclear power stations in Scotland.
The UK Government in 2010 decided to build up to 8 new nuclear power stations in other parts of Britain, as the present ones are due to close by 2016, unless their term is extended.
At present, one sixth of Britain's electricity comes from nuclear power stations. - The EU project of a great European state seems to be more unpopular by the day.
Greece has gone bankrupt for the second time in one year. At that rate, by 2025 they'd have gone bankrupt 15 times! - we will not know for many years if the education reforms are an improvement, my own opinion is that there will be an ever greater difference in quality between good and bad schools.
with health. lansley is being kept in the job as the leadership needs to have him to take the flak whilst the reforms are watered down to next to nothing.
the welfare reforms are not biting yet so we will have to wait and see, i suspect there will be more back tracking though. - The Health reforms were next to nothing anyway, Howard - it was just a continuation of the route Labour led us down to the logical conclusion.
As I have said before we need to be more radical on health than any politician would dare to be if we want better health care for all.
As for schools - yes there will be greater diversity but a result of more parental choice standards overall will be pushed up and bad schools will be allowed to fail and be closed. - Barry, up and till now you have robustly defended the coalition but it seems that you are changing your view and are in favour of a general election sooner than later, unless I'm missing something.
- You are indeed missing something Philip.
I may be supportive of the coalition but you should regard me as a 'critical friend'. I am not slavish to them and will critisise when I believe it is deserved and will do so from the right.
I do not want a general election sooner rather than later and believe that it is best for the country for the coalition to carry on until its full 5 year term is up. Then will be the time to get an overall Conservative majority with a mandate to deal with the other problems this country has that will not be addressed with the LibDems part of the government.
This country needs a stable government to deal with the appalling economic legacy and secure a recovery first and foremost. The economic situation is so bad that it will need the full term to get beyond stabilisation to a strong well entrenched recovery. Even if I believe Osborne is not cutting deep or fast enough he is at least going in the right direction. - Fair enough Barry but the government will still end up at the end of term borrowing more than has been borrowed up until now therefore adding to the UK debt mountain. All they are doing is slowing the rate at which they borrow. Add that to policies which do great damage to not only our reputation but business as well ( you know by now what I'm talking about, the green deal and it's enormous implications for our global competitiveness, 50p tax rate, subsidies to wind farms, energy policy or lack of it, inability to stand our ground in terms of issues regarding Europe etc. etc.) and I'm not so sure that whatever aims they hold will come anywhere close to where you want us all to be come the next election.
It's all rather worrying really considering that once Greece and others default (and sure enough it's only a matter of time) we will find ourselves extremely exposed and in a situation that is rather unimaginable.
Make the most of the good times while they last. - Phillip is right though in that he detects a new air of confidence within Conservative ranks. The Conservatives did not win the general election outright as we know but entered into an unholy alliance with the Libdems. I say unholy because as we can see, the Libdems do not appear to be up to the task of government, and much of their own Libdem frontbench is unravelling in unsavoury fashion before our very eyes. Not keeping promises was one thing but now their dodgy dealing quota has mushroomed out of proportion to their size.
In the recent local elections the oddest thing happened, an unpopular government in the middle of a drastic cuts program, actually gained credibility in that they suffered no heavy defeats either at the hands of Labour or the Libdems. Confidence has soared therefore. They now know that they could win a general election outright on their own right now should one be called.
The recent elections therefore were a great boost for Conservatism. Labour are treading water currently and in no position to win anything. Their old guard has gone and the new faces have not yet set the electorate alight. So little opposition is forthcoming that there was a feature on televison recently discussing the oddest scenario..ie that the Conservatives might have to be their own opposition at least in local southeast terms. A sad state of affairs. - BARRYW
I think to be fair the items you discuss are hardly conservative based items.
WELFARE REFORM;
Frank fields(labour)had even more radical ideas than ian d smith but were rejected, a great shame but even his didnt go far enough.
ian duncan smith has made a very very small inroad into the above, again not very radical, an been watered down, and continues to be watered down, everyone admits theres a problem but no one wants to get serious in dealing with it.
barryw you will find on many parts of welfare reform our views are much the same, although i feel they could have been a lot more radical.
there you go for starters - kieth,calm down dear its only welfare reform,nothing magor.
- Keith - no IDS has won full backing for his policies from the Treasury, these have not been watered down. Frank Field has spoken out in favour of the IDS plans.
You are right to highlight how Brown, from the Treasury blocked Field's attempt at reform. - i am a bit bemused by barry and his attitude towards the coalition at present.
it seems clear to most of us that if dave called an election now the blues would get a majority(not a big one) and could then stop all this kowtowing to the yellows.
all dave has to do is renege on a few deals and force nick to give up his title and ministerial car.
the reds have still not thought up any policies and their leader has not made his mark yet. - Firstly a deal was done and in my book if you do a deal you stick to it Howard. Secondly it is in the national interest above all else to get the economy sorted and a disruptive election would not help that - stability is essential. Thirdly there is never any certainty in elections particularly at a time such as this.
- I heard something on the radio this morning BarryW that the OECD, the highly respected economic organisation, have noted signs of stagnant non growth here in the UK and have now backtracked on their support for Osborne's savage cuts. They now believe that the cuts may be too severe and too fast and are resulting in a total slow-down, which is not what Cameron wants at all.
I havent seen a report on this as yet, but just caught the item on R4 in passing this morning. - PaulB - the whole point is that there are no so called 'savage cuts' any slowdown in the UK economy is nothing to do with cuts at all. The figures speak for themselves.
We need cuts to lift a massive burden off the private sector on who we depend on to get that growth. - seem as if a game of smoke and mirrors is being played here by all sides.
we have the government saying there are hardly any cuts, yet we see hospital wards closing with appointments and operations cancelled or delayed.
on the council front there are some local authorities cutting basic things and leaving the high salaried executices in place.
this morning we read that the parachute regiment chaps will lose their extra payment of £,180 a month and privates will get a 10% pay cut. just seems a game is being played out at the expense of the public. - Howard - the government is not saying there are no cuts, they actually say they are cutting.
The facts of public spending show they are not. It is all there to anyone who cares to look.
The confusion is from the following:
....A change in the priorities for resources mean the losers start sceaming while the winners stay quiet.
....The days where there are no controls over what is spent are gone so anyone who find they are under quite normal and reasonable spending scutiny does not like it and makes a fuss.
....There are reductions in planned increases (not cuts to spending)
The figures speak for themselves - spending has increased and it should be cut, April being a new record for the amount spent. OK - the amount being spent on interest is also increasing due to the deficit increasing the amount borrowed but that is part of the pattern that must change.
We need actual cuts and not just changed priorities or cuts to planned spending.
Howard you are spending too much time listening to those ravening hoards of vested interests who are fighting to make sure they keep their massive empires intact. The BBC have lost all perspective on this and are only too pleased to exaggerate cuts and to minimise the dangers of uncontrolled public spending and borrowing. - barry
firstly i do not consider the parachute regiment to be a "ravening horde of vested interests", they are being shafted, no other way of describing it.
i am sure you are right about the figures, the fact remains that what people see are threadbare vital services.
we cannot even afford plants in town for example.
county council are cutting rural bus routes and library services.
the list is endless. - And there are a lot more cuts needed. Get used to it Howard - the country cannot spend money it does not have any more than you can.
When times get hard you cut your cloth to fit it. - try telling that to the paras barry.
not long go we had that unedifying spectacle of dave in afghanistan doing his market trader routieg telling the troops how much extra money they would be getting. - Howard - I would like to see you trying to spend £5 for every £4 of income you had for a period of 10 plus years. What would you decide to cut from your spending?
Tough choices have to be made there is absolutely no getting away from it. There are always reasons to cut something else, sometime good, sometime completely fatious but cuts have to be made.
Once again we are paying the price for having had a Labour government. - barry,it's not the money it's the princaple of the thing.
- quite right brian, promises made to our serving troops that put their lives on the line should be honoured.
not the first time that media savvy politicians have reneged on a deal though. - The trouble with cuts is that people spontaneously think that these have to be made in public spending.
But, as has been mentioned recently on a couple of threads, the 1,000 richest characters in Britain have on average £400 million in PRIVATE assets and money.
That's where the Government should start cutting, by reaping in 99% of their private assets, and then moving on to the next 1,000 richest. - Alexander - I do not approve of theft. What you suggest is not only illegal it is economic suicide.
Howard & Brian, pontificating about principals is all very well but principals do not magically mend the economy. You can only spend what you have. - barry,if the goverment say they that they will look after the troops say with extra payments to eliviate hardship while fighting on the front life [its called endangering ones life] for queen and country,then find find out that its the compleat opisit and have money and other support cut from underneath.not very suppotive is it.
- barryw
im happy to disagree with any labour issue and on the earlier comment in relation to IDS and the frank field of his time.
it was tony blair who stoppe f field going any further with his proposals, certainly a mstake.
but that said from the position IDS starte from in his speeches when he first started, the present proposals are very much watered down, and wont solve the problems required - all very sad when a prime minister addresses his troops in the theatre of war, promising them extra money in front of the t.v. cameras then soon after ripping them off.
you are right barry principles are a thing of the past. - The troops did get extra money Howard and are better off now than they were even a year ago, including the paras.
By the way - I have said many times how I feel about cuts to the defence budget and how that should be the only part of public spending that should not be cut. - Barryw;
At least we can agree on part that national govts interfere to much, but i have to say the conservatives in the past(and prob in the future) hate local govt and do all they can to interfere with it.
barryw
please, centre right my big toe, who are you tryint to kid?
- Quite right Barry. The conservatives don't pass stupid laws like the labour party do they only pass intelligent laws such as a law which ring fences 0.7% of GDP to foreign aid.
This at a time when they recently announced a cut in winter fuel payments to the elderly.
Or as another for instance they only pass sensible environmental laws which lower the carbon dioxide emissions of industry in the UK while every other country in the world is doing the exact opposite.
Oh and I nearly forgot the tory euroscepticism knows no bounds with , sigh, an inevitable hand in pocket from the treasury to bail out the Greek economy.
Did someone mention the words centre right? - Keith - I used the expression centre-right to encompass all of us to the right of the political spectrum opposed to big government and to exclude the nasties of the BNP. It is absurd that the BNP are labelled by the Guardianistas and BBC as 'right wing' as their economic policies have more in common with the extreme left of Labour and a big government attitude - after all Hitler and Stalin were just different side of the same coin. Take the time to read up their manifesto on-line and you can see that.
Philip - you too are missing the point I am making. - philip;
i know you could add a lot more
- barry
you have unemployment figures covering when the reds enter and leave office, what would be more interesting is to see the average rate of unemployment during the terms of office of each party.
very different i think you will find. - Howard - employment is a lagging indicator the impact of Labour's incompetence continues well beyond the end of their term. After 13 years of their mismanagment and now having left government with it a lot higher and increasing level (compared to a lower and reducing figure in 1997) unemployment the efforts needed to mend the economy inevitably means Labour's unemployment legacy gets worse before it starts getting better. Remember Labour's longest ever period of government has ended in the biggest ever bust, that is no coincidence.
- barryw
a little bit of honesty here please.
maggie welcomed people going on the dole, to her the 3 million didnt matter.
a lost cause
even though many were on the dole because of her
so even stevens baz - Wow! Great entry in the Blog series above but.. controversial. I quote from BarryW's Blog above
" The simple truth is that Labour are only for the lazy, the workshy, the scroungers and the criminals. "
I dont know what to say to that one. I suppose Labour has its failings but the idea of socialism is that we spend more on services and the community in general and ideally have higher taxes to pay for it all. I dont mind the notion of higher taxes if we have enough policemen, enough nurses and doctors, limited waiting lists in hospital, care for the elderly up to an accceptable level, libraries open and functioning, soldiers not having their wages cut...and general stuff like that. I think we all prefer these benefits in a well balanced society. Labour try to hold on to them all but perhaps didnt charge enough in taxes during their long term in power. - not one of the best blogs, barry knows very well that the last regime introduced the minimum wage and tax credits that took many working people out of poverty.
note the term "working people", not workshy,idle, scroungers. - Howard - the minimum wage locks people into poverty as it creates in many industries a low wage norm. Tax credits likewise.
PaulB - I do not suggest that all public spending is bad, the problem is that too much of it is a disaster for the economy as is too much taxation. It is a balance and we need public spending down below 30% of GDP.
The simple thats socialists do not like to admit is the following.
Labour have a vested political interest in keeping people on low wages, in creating an underclass and keeping them dependant of grateful to the state. This is what they depend on for electoral support.
By contrast the vested political interest for the Conservatives is to encourage and generate more prosperity for everyone both by owning capital and income. The better off people are and the more self-reliant the more likely they are to support the Conservatives. - Keith - yes lets have honesty.... and not the silly mythology that Labour try to peddle and you just repeated about Mrs T.
- i fail to see your logic barry on the minimum wage and tax credits.
reputable companies in the low wage market welcomed the minimum wage as much as their staff did, it outed the cowboys.
neither of the above locked people into anything, companies raised pay levels to get or maintain quality staff.
i sens that you are losing the arguments when you resort to using words like "socialists", blair and company that brought in these incentives for hard working low paid people have never been accused of that. - Howard - The minimum wage alongside tax credits damps down wage competition helped by unskilled immigration.
- barry,it dose help to keep the econamy ticking over,it allso helps to keep unenployment at bay knowing that you or me wont get ripped of with below average wages.
- Howard - it does nothing for unemployment and means that people are locked into low pay so it helps no-one ultimately.
As for the economy, no - it does absolutely nothing at all. - obviouisly dint read my post baz
i don't peddle labour stuff
but what i dont have is rose tinted glasses.
you should try to come out in the real world one ay baz - Interesting news coming out concerning Greece. It seems the CIA are worried that measures to tackle the deep economic problems they face might lead to a military coup. Dark clouds are forming over that region and when, not if, the Greeks default on their debts this will inevitably lead to contagion and spread to Spain and Portugal and others too.
Mind you you would be forgiven for not being aware of this increasingly dire situation when most of the news, if you can call it that, concerns some failed singer called Cole and her dayjob.
Aahhh ignorance is indeed bliss. - interesting case greece, the socialist government want to implement an austerity package but the right wing opposition are blocking it.
greece knows it can never pay back the money.
you are right about portugal philip, spain is a different case. - Keith - wash your mouth out with soap.... there is no bigger peddler of Labour tosh than you....
- My second thread on joining Dover Forum was about local administration at County and District level having more to say and accomplish.
It's why I am interested in knowing more about the localism bill, and wondering when Gov. will start introducing it.
Is this what you refer to, Barry, when you mention small government? - No not at all Alexander it is a much bigger vision than that. Local decision making can be as much part of big government as anything else. Small government is literally about shrinking the size of the State (that includes local government).
It is about government (which includes local, national and the EU) doing a lot less, spending less, taxing less, interfering less. Its about fewer laws and regulations and leaving us free to live our own lives, standing more on our own two feet.
Thats not to say 'localism' is nothing to do with it because localism need not be only about local government, it can also be about making our own decisions as individuals without reference or regard to government local or otherwise.
Do not mix this up with anarchy, they want no government, small government is not that.
Small government still acknowedges the need for a framework of law, the nation state and the need for a certain level of government spending. It is not about total withdrawal from society either.
You will recall that I believe the best balance for the size of the state in economic terms is for its spending to be at or under 30% of GDP instead of the whopping 53% as it is now. - Barryw
I will pass on that soap to you, in your rose tinted glasses - I see, Barry. No, I certainly won't mix that up with anarchy. But in my vision, we would see the return of local tinkers, tailers, book-binders, cobblers, basket weavers, farmhands, albeit using modernised implements of production.
We'll have to see in which direction the wind blows, but I'm sticking to my vision. - The world has moved beyond your vision Alexander.
- But surely the government is in a position where they have no choice but to raise taxes. How are they to pay for the ringfencing of the foreign aid budget, the latest carbon reduction laws, the loss of thousands of jobs and disinvestment in the gas and oil sector following the windfall tax announced in the last budget?
How are they to pay for the extra millions set to find themselves on unemployment benefit following the government's disinvestment in the manufacturing sector?
Surely there is no choice in the matter and we will find ourselves taxed even more over the next few years?
There is no magic money fairy but, like Alex Salmond, David Cameron believes there to be some fantastical way to conjure cash from a few enlightened people who intend to set up private enterprise and tax them at 50% or more.
Cuckoo, cuckoo. - Philip - governments should never invest in business or manufacturing. Beaurocrats investing other people's money is a recipe for financial disaster. Examples of beaurocratic meddling include Concorde (a great project but a financial disaster) not to mention the £billions wasted in the 60's and 70's subsidising industries that should have been left to fight, adapt and survive or fail on their merits.
You are looking at this in too much of a black and white viewpoint while also exaggerating the problems (that do exist) and underestimating the economic positive side (that also do exist).
Yes there is an overemphasis on the man-made climate change rubbish but it is a global over-emphasis. That means we can take advantage of the situation leading the way in developing and manufacturing products to fulfill the fantasies of the environmental industry. If people want to be taken in by this rubbish the the UK should make a buck from them.... - Sometimes Philip, going with the flow is the easiest and most productive route while retaining some cynisism about the direction. I would have to agree with you if you were to say that government shows a little too little cynisism though!
- I thought we elected leaders who were somehow, in some small way, visionary or at least had some sort of vision for the country they were elected to lead. I don't vote nor will ever vote for a party who simply wants to "go with the flow". Therein lies a stagnating and uncivilized future.
Had Churchill simply decided to "go with the flow" I suspect life might be somewhat different today than what has actually transpired.
Going with the flow is not an option and to suggest that pandering to deluded souls all over the world is the way of madness. To take up your point on our exploitation of the fools who sign up to this climate madness it is us and not them who are spending billions fulfilling the fantasies of the enviromental industries.
It is indeed us who do not manufacture alternative energy technologies but us who buy them. It is not us who who stand to make a buck but other countries.
It is not us who has a conservative leader who should have crossed the floor years ago to join the liberals or greens but us.
We are well and truly on the road to financial ruin but can only find the time to discuss fifa corruption and other silly little media stories.
- Philip - MPs are concerned about re-election so it is not always feasable to go directly against the current public perception. The myth of man-made climate change has become a fact among many people in the media etc who shape opinion. Those of us who question it are regarded by some in the media almost like holcaust deniers... The simple fact is that these days the media are vital in the electoral process and they have an excessive influence on policy in this way.
Look at it in sailing terms, you cannot sail directly into the wind, you have to tack with the wind in order to move in the right direction. - Barry there is no time to take into account trifling considerations such as a perceived public perception. We are witnessing events which will have a severe impact on our prosperity and to wait while the public (whoever they are) to get onside is a dereliction of duty.
It's like going to the doctor with a serious illness but the doctor deciding not to tell the patient how serious it is until he can be won round.
So to prevaricate until the current public perception is changed is not only a waste of valuable time but by the time they are "won over" it is too late and stupid policies and laws are passed. By then the public perception will be one of "who the hell passed these stupid laws and why weren't we told how stupid those laws were?"
As it stands tory backbenchers are keeping their upper lips stiff and wringing their hands behind their backs in the hope that they, one day, will be given their chance to put forward real conservative policies.
Sorry guys, you're deluding yourself. It ain't gonna happen and in fact there is likely to be a cull of anything that smacks of the "nasty" element in the higher echelons of the party.
Go home to your constituencies and prepare for years of opposition. - You have identified a weakness in the democratic system there Philip. To expect politicians not to allow for the need to be elected or re-elected is unrealistic.
It is the same perverse impulse that has led us to the sorry state of debt we are in now. Politicians wanting to be seen as 'nice' posing as great benefactors with other people's money with no regard to the economic impact.
It is a flawed system but neverthess it is the best we have and have to work within it and make allowances. - I see we have a blue Lord now going to jail,what do you have to say about that BARRY.?
- any more going down would mean black rod having to bang on the doors of the scrubs at the next opening of parliament vic.
speaking of lords they are fighting off moves to have elected peers.
this is despite all the main parties having this in their election manfesto. - Vic - exactly the same as I have said for all the others, this is not news any more.
As for elected Peers I see room for a mix. I do not see a wholly elected House as being a step forward though. The standard of debate in the Upper House tends to be superior and they have greater independence - this will be lost the more elected Peers we have.
As long as the Upper House remains no more than a debating and reviewing Chamber there is no harm and a great deal of benefit to having a significant number of appointed Peers, many of them being experts in their respective fields and not beholden to a Party line. - VIC;
Soz mate, doubt baz will reply to your post.
Didn't hear about the Tory going to jail, tell me more - I did respond Keith - try reading. This is not new and he just, rightly, joins the other parliamentary crooks, most of them Labour, behind bars. Not really a party political issue at all.
- baz
nice try you didnt realy answer
all parties scandal
was the point vic was making
including your beloved tories - From todays Financial times, "The UK economy is set to experience the slowest pick-up in consumer spending of any post-recession period since 1830, according to a Financial Times analysis of official forecasts."
This is getting really serious now. We are in a big, big hole and there ain't nobody out there with the skills to get us out of it.
However, there is one chink of light at the end of the tunnel, the government are going to completely decarbonise the UK in order to save the planet.
So the UK is responsible for 2% of global carbon dioxide emissions. Remember that natural carbon dioxide emissions account for 97% of all carbon dioxide. So we emit 2% of a figure of 3% of man-made emissions.
Does anyone realise how tiny that figure is?
And yet here we are faced with the biggest economic catastrophe facing our nation for decades and the best the government can come up with is some hippy utopia.
Business's are already uping sticks and leaving the UK because of the governments green taxes. Gas production around our shores is being cancelled because of Osbourne's £2 billion windfall tax. It goes on and on.
And all people are worried about are a few corrupt MP's and Lords who fiddle their expenses.
What is going on? - The recovery from the longest and deepest recession and the longest period of Labour mismanagment in our history was always going to be a long and rocky affair.
This is why I has said that the government should bite the bullet and make deeper and quicker cuts to spending combined with a massive cut in red tape for business and tax cuts.
If the BBC/Guardian/Opposition and Union luddites are going to scream like fisherwives over the effect of so called 'savage cuts' when there have not yet been any, when spending is still higher in real terms, then you might as well do it properly and give them something to scream about. At least after the initial hit after going 'cold turkey' you will then get the economy moving again more quickly. - Tax cuts! tobacco goes up all the time, Barry.
I wish they would reign those taxes in a little, it's mind-boggling what they charge! - Osborne the tory trust fund millionaire is keeping his head down as the economy slides into decline has anyone else noted how quiet he has become and seems to have fallen into a coalition version of the 'Bermuda triangle'.
The Chamber of Commerce, an independant body, estimates the economy will expand by a miserable 1.3% this year.As I have said before that’s lower than France, Germany and the US.
Even debt ridden Greece is currently growing faster than Britain and they have debts equivalent to 150% of their GDP according to this mornings BBC news. Inflation’s high and out of control and it's pretty likely that the Bank of England will raise interest rates making it more expensive to borrow and putting up the cost of mortgages.
Although he continually claims he inherited it from Labour (when the economy was growing) he’s borrowing far more than he expected. All this on top of broken promises and attacks on hardworking families.
Osborne slapped a record £12billion on VAT which he’d denied he was going to do before the election.
National Insurance has gone up,Child benefit’s frozen for three years, nurses, teachers, home helps, squaddies and coppers are also suffering a pay freeze.
Osborne, along with Lansley, Clarke, Fox and Hague and as of today the immigration minister Green (plus Huhne and Cable on the Lib Dem side) are coming under tremendous pressure as not being fit for purpose.
And BarryW is asking for yet more cuts! Give me a break. - Marek - try reading the blog and you can see our problem the sheer weight of the overblown public sector.
Of course we need more cuits - you cannot soend more than you have coming in or there is a massive price to pay.
Growth predictions for the global economy have been downgraded so it is not just the UK. Any recovery is not going to be smooth and for Britain coming out of the longest deepest recession in 80 years is going to be even harder.
How on eart are businesses going to be able to grow well when burdened with high taxes and massive amounts of red tape imposed by Labour? 47% of our economy is struggling carrying the 53% that is the public sector.
If you do not understand this and think it OK to carry on deficit spending why dont you try spending 3% for every £4 you have in income for an extended period of 10 years or more and see what happens then. - woops, rather a lot of typos in that last one. hurrying too much, sorry...
- Barry, it is impossible for Britain to ever get out of the national debt, or for our Country to ever pay back the individual/private debt, in conventional ways.
Only a debt-remission for State and private people alike will solve the issue.
Please not, I have no private financial debts, and never have had any, and so am not speaking out of personal opportunity here. - Debt is a fact of life that will not go away and I am not suggesting no-one or indeed the government should not borrow. The problem we have is the sheer level of debt and how vulnerable people are to interest rate increases that must happen soon.
There is nothing wrong with debt provided it is the 'right debt' and is servicable. The 'right debt' is that obtained for a capital purchase repayable in full within the useful life of that property.
It is also good to borrow to invest in a business venture, again it has to be done with eyes wide and on the basis of a good business plan. Most businesses start that way - including mine.
Short term cash flow issues can also be resolved by borrowing (credit cards - not those vultures advertising short term loans at 3000% APR) but in this case at very modest levels and ideally in such cases it would be preferable to have an 'emergency fund' of savings available instead. - a couple of points here barry, we in the u.k. purchase our own homes a lot more than people in the other g8 countries, therefore a mortgage would be included as debt while rent would not be.
in your last post you mention "serviceable" debt, there is no such thing. jobs can be lost at any time as can self employed people lose business and/or have customers default on them.
other than a house or new car purchase i think that any other borrowing is just an additional worry. - Howard - yes of course we have greater home ownership and that would account for the overall higher level of debt we have. That has been true for many decades and is a totally irrelivant point in the context of the blog. You need to consider the trend of debt and the impact of Brown's policies.
Do you deny any of the facts that I mentioned...
The way Brown discouraged savings
The way he left debt our of the equasion for interest rates for the BoE
The above are matters of public record.
So you can see the effects...
The resultant massive fall in the savings ratio
The housing boom and bubble that need otherwise need not have happened
The massive increase in credit card debt
Being someone who has advised people of financial matters for 22 years, including borrowing, I can state categorically that your comments about there being no such thing as serviceable debt is the biggest load of 'low swinging round things' I have ever heard. - barry
you can be offensive as you like but all debt is a risk and certainly not serviceable if circumstances change.
i have seen it in the past with the "yuppies" having to pawn their porsche 911's when the easy money stopped and we will see it resurface again in the next couple of years when people who planned on their income increasing find that they have pay cuts if not losing their jobs altogether. - Don't worry the coalition will sort it all out. They have a plan - a big plan. Fear not, the state will save us all. After all they have hatched an ingenious plan to subvert 0.7% of gdp to foreign aid to help leaders of "poor" countries build up fleets of limo's, sorry aid the starving. Some cynically see this as the poor of our country giving money to the rich of others but these little fools fail to see the bigger picture. I'll fill you in on the bigger picture at some other time when someone is able to tell me.
Also they will alleviate our national debt by a fantastic scheme called the green investment bank which is, erm, truly fantastic. No really it's green and it invests and it sounds really good because it's green right? Green is good isn't it? Experts tell us so.
And add to that the government's pronouncements that it is going to get tough on europe. Yes! Tough! They really mean it this time. They told us so. I believe them don't you?
And the government's energy policies - really, really mind blowing. Take David Cameron's Father in law. He stands to make millions by the erection of six wind turbines in his back garden. It's really brilliant. I'm gonna get some of those too and I suggest any right thinking citizen does the same as soon as possible. It's good for the country, good for the planet and good for one's pocket. A win win all round don't you agree?
Now don't go round fretting that the government is set to help bail out Greece, Portugal and all those silly countries who spent too much. This is the government's piece de resistance as they have, erm, no intention of spending anymore of our hard earned cash on Johnny Foreigner Oh no sir. No way Pedro.
Chin up it's not as bad as it seems, the government has told us so. - Howard - the word is serviceable. You cannot give an example of fools borrowing to excess to claim the there is no such thing as 'servicable debt'. There are many, many more people who borrow responsibly and repay those borrowing regardless of any changes to their circumstances. You just have to deal with them.
By all means feel offended, I prefer straight talking truth to pandering to such a daft statement as you made. - see what i mean barry, twice you have resorting to insults to put up an argument.
"daft" and " low swinging round ones" are not good debating points. - Hardly a debating point, Howard. I will treat serious debating points seriously - you are capable of better than what you came up with in this case. Perhaps it just reflects a desperation in you to justify the unjustifiable Labour policies over 13 years on debt and saving.
- Barry you continuously crow like some old cock about the Labour Party and how their economic policies always end in disaster.
Could you please read your Conservative history, let me guide you a little, the 1926 general strike, The Suez Crisis, The balance of payments deficit under Macmillan, the 3 day week under Heath, Thatcher and civil unrest as a result of her policies and finally Major, truly a major disaster. If you need reminding of all these events Ishall be only too pleased to help you. - Alan - you cannot possible make the same claim about the Conservatives economic policy as is quite demonstrable for Labour. The historical facts bear this out. I am also on record as saying on my blog that the Conservatives are not perfect and if you are a regular reader you will see that I have often been critical of them too.
There is certainly no denying the 1926 General Strike and the Great Depression a few years later. Sadly we did not learn the lessons of the General strike and that laid the groundwork for later industrial woes.
It is such a pity that Labour who claim to love Keynes (who developed his theories as a result of the Great Depression), only ever implement those Keyseyan theories that suite their them and forget the bits, for instance, about repaying debt during a growth phase of the economy. Perhaps Labour would not have left such an appalling legacy last year if they had applied their favourite economist's theories in full.
Remember Alan the very first Labour admistration collapsed itself in economic woes pre-war.
On the economic front Major, for all his faults, left a very healthy economic legacy behind when he left office in 1997, something admitted by Blair.
Every single Conservative government has come to power needing to make very tough decisions to put right Labour's mistakes.
Labour got into serious economic trouble with Atlee at the helm leading to 13 years of Conservative power. Heath had to contend with the aftermath of the revaluation crisis and the failure of Labour to proceed with 'In Place of Strife'. Sadly Heath did his famous U-turn leaving office with the Unions in a more powerful position than ever. Most Conservatives have never forgiven him for that.
As for Mrs T - she inherited a terrible legacy in which the Unions were so powerful many thought they could bring her down at a whim. A lot of people as a result expected her to U turn as a result but thankfully she was made of sterner stuff than Heath.
The problems she had to deal with included a huge heavy industrial base that instead of being expected over previous decades to modernise and compete, were kept going only by massive taxpayers subsidy. In these industries the Unions ruled the roost, blocking modernisation with restrictive practises and striking at a whim over the most minor issues.
Thanks to Mrs T these problems were faced down and the economy lost its 'sick man of Europe' tag and went on to prosper until Major joined the EMU and that is another tale but one eventually put right by the Major government itself after the collapse of EMU. We learned that lesson and Conservatives will not join the Euro...
So Alan - We come to now and if you read my last blog you will have seen outlined exactly how the present economic crisis was brought about by Brown. It is no coincidence that the longest period of Labour government has resulted in the biggest deepest domestic bust since 1929. - you seem to be losing the plot barry, where have i tried to justify red policies and why would i?
the issue i raised has nothing to do with what governement is in power, you are simply trying to deflect the argument away. - Howard - I was trying to find a charitable excuse for you deploying such a poor argument...
Besides you have yourself admitted that you are 'left' inclined. - Changing the subject and highlighting BarryW's blog above re the sexualisation of very young people. I agree with the latest report that something should be done. There is a whole culture surrounding us now which shoves garish sex at us 24/7. It is relentless. Many pop videos are close to pornographic and show very scantily clad women gyrating very provocatively at all times. This has become the norm, the latest way to promote the latest song..which each one more provacative than the one before, if thats possible.
When you have young girls growing up it becomes hard to convince them that they have other values other than stripping off and gyrating for cheap gratification.
Unfortunately they see this on our screens night and day. They love the pop songs so whats a parent to do. You cant keep them away from the pop music phenomenon, so you cant switch off.
Fortunately education is the saviour...women can go on to fruitful careers without resorting to this sort of thing. - HOWARD;
If your expecting our 'BAZ' to be fair minded, you have seriously underestimated/misunderstood him.
On the latest cobbled together govt. proposal although it should be applauded, but if the govt are serious then they need to look further than media etc.
kids today, have you tube, twitter, and lot's of other avenues, so whilst this is a good move, if the govt is serious that this will have much affect, they are badly mistaken - I don't quite understand the latest fuss surrounding the recent announcement of an expected rise in energy bills. All these moaning minnies worried that they will be placed in a position that the choice facing them is to eat or heat.
Don't they realise that it's tough times we are living through at the moment and if they want a better world and a way out of this economic mire we find ourselves in they had better get used to forking out more money.
I think the conservatives have it completely right on this issue and the more that bills go up the better for us all.
We should be paying much more for our energy and I am in complete agreement with the government on this issue. - Philip.
That is OK to talk like that,but what about the members for the public that do not get good wages some are on a fixed income,so when the fuel or food goes up their income does not,you must be one of the lucky ones who wages keep up with the cost of living.But think of others who are not in the same boat. - Vic - do you not recognise Philip's wit?
- Sorry but I did not,but should we be joking about this?for many it is no joke but a big worry.
- Vic - yes I think we can joke about this. After all if we British can develop a 'black humour' in wartime and tell jokes about something as serious as that why should we not find humour in this as well.
It is a great characteristic of the British to find humour in almost any situation. In fact humour is often used as a way to get through difficult times. - Your thinking not mine. Easy to say that when you are well off.
- i took as a bit of irony from phillip who was taking a pot shot at the party he always supported and now has grave doubts about.
- Vic I have to say that I can definitely not be described as well off. In fact I've always found myself struggling with keeping head above water which is why I feel so strongly about what I see as wrong headed thinking by the government in this and other respects.
I don't think that anyone reading my last post can possibly come to the conclusion other than that I was being ironic.
Talking of which isn't it strange that when these huge increases in energy bills are announced people are left feeling shocked and surprised. Isn't it me and other "flat earthers" who have been banging on about the consequences of government policy surrounding this issue and the cost to everybody in order to implement these odious ideas?
Yet people are still repeating the mantra that it's all the fault of the evil energy companies (although to a greater extent this is true) but don't take into account the appalling effect the governments green initiatives are having.
Remember this is just the start and as I have been forewarning time and time again these measures and others like them including installing thousands more wind farms, solar panels etc in place of real energy production will bankrupt the nation.
Coupled with intrusive carbon legislation and regulations to business and the public and not forgetting that we are doing this alone it can only lead to massive job losses and an increased national debt burden.
One can really only make jokes about it as it is too serious in it's economic consequences to think deeply about. - More from the story above - it seems there have been some leaks to undermine Ed Balls (Dud Ed) to derail any attempt by him of a coup against Red Ed.
The 'Dud Ed' camp are blaming the 'Red Ed' camp for leaking as a pre-emptive measure.
This will run and run...
- just the same that Maggie done to poor old Ted years ago,that was done very under handed,and then had the same done to herself.
- There can be no doubt about it Ed Balls would a disaster for the Labour leadership role. Much as was his master before him Gordon Brown. Gordon didnt have Leadership potential as we now know, despite huddling in plot and aspiration to get it for years. His ambition exceeded his talent and Balls is very much of that same school. And as we see today they plotted nastily against the man who did have the leadership qualities required and won them three elections...previously unheard of for labour.
It is very disappointing to see Labour behaving this way, even when they get someone very good both in media terms and in polularity terms, they still try to scupper him from within. It is truly daft trying to scupper your own side.
However rumours of Ed Milibands demise are premature. He hasnt been sparkling as of yet but we should expect a revival, a boost in popularity in the autumn. If not then the hand-wringing will begin.
But the problem for Labour is this...there isnt a gifted leader waiting anywhere in the wings. There was something of a dream team around Blair for a while, now all gone, but alas we dont see anything approaching a dream team right now on Labours front bench. - I think the look on Ed Milliband's face when it was announced that he won the leadership contest said it all. A mixture of "Who, Me, Really?" followed milliseconds later by a queasy and distinctly uneasy expression where he must have been saying to himself "Oh My God. What have I done?"
On another note I see our exports and manufacturing output have dropped into negative territory. Hmmmm, I wonder what helped bring that one on?
- I reckon we haven't seen the last David Miliband yet. He has kept a low profile therefore dodging most of the flak dished out by the coalition .He is waiting in the wings ready to step in when Ed and Balls outlive their use and sell by date.
Dave Miliband will arrive on the scene ,smooth,polished and unsullied with a fresh cabinet posed to take on the then very tired and failed Con/Dems. - exactly my thoughts marek, he is a shrewd operator and will wait to find out which way his party wants to go then suddenly say that he thought the same all along.
in a years time the cuts will be really hurting and people now that are saying that they accept them as a necessary evil will be ready to welcome a fresh face on the scene.
david miliband is the epitome of a smooth televisual politician in the mould of tony and dave. - I agree with you, Barry, that Labour hasn't got anything to offer. In a full year since the last Genral Election, I've never understood what Red Ed and Co. stand for, as they have never once - to my knowledge at any rate - said that anything Labour did in the previous 11 years contributed to Britain's present catastrophic situation.
- There is no doubt D Milliband has a role to play, and i for one hope he will come back, it will be interesting to see his imput.
As iv said on here, the labour party is no different to the tories before them, in opposition they didnt open to much slowly rebuilding, which ed is doing.
members up
members defecting from lib and tory.
Let's watch the cobbled together govt tear itself apart. - Yes I heard some of the Robert Gates speech yesterday BarryW and I thought it worrying. We have taken it for granted that the US is forever there for us westerners, doing their duty as the world police with their considerable armament, but clearly now they are fed up with it. They now see a period coming up of inward reflection.
The US as a whole is having trouble coming out of their recession and the population in general is feeling the economic pinch bigtime. We here in the UK at time of recession like to bash immigration, its our whipping boy, all those foreigners taking our jobs, etc etc. The US now seem to be developing a similar kind of phobia...and all about saving money on the homefront.
They originally caused the world wide banking recession, on top of that they have had natural disasters to cope with too, so spending all that money protecting us foreigners is beginning to stick in their craw. Yes even we are foreigners to somebody.
You could see the shift in philosophy with their appraoch to the Libyan situation. France and the UK stepped up to the plate but following the sad contraction of our armed forces over many years we dont have the staying power for such adventures. - In today's press RAF pilots are having to learn French so they can land and use any of the French 4 aircraft carriers.
Nelson must be spinning in his tomb. - I wouldn't worry too much about NATO. There will always be a useful war for them to fight. Take Australia for example. Not happy with the egregious carbon taxes they are set to impose in their heavy manufacturing sector as well as it's golden goose coal mining industry they have hatched a scheme to save the planet by the culling of hundreds of thousands of feral camels which roam the outback on walkabout, a traditional Aussie pastime popular with the locals and it seems camels as well.
Those who shoot dead these beasts will qualify for carbon credits. The reason for the mass slaughter for these, the kings of the desert and the outback, is that the emissions they emit which include deadly methane, are blamed for a massive rise in the world's temperature.
So, as we speak, plans are being hatched in NATO headquarters to send a multi-lateral task force en masse to deal with this deadly threat.
So fear not NATO will survive and now they have been given the role to fight the deadliest enemy (according to David Cameron) their future can be considered safe in the medium term. - it must be barbie season down under,camel steaks are a must.nato has been invited.
- Just saw Charlie Elphicke on the politics show. Made a good fist of putting across his views on coal gas extraction in the area. He certainly made a most very odd looking green loon look even more looney.
A possible future energy minister once Huhne is kicked out? - Marek - The French have only one aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle. It has very limited capabilities and no current RAF aircraft, other tan helicopters, could land on it as they do not have maritime deck landing ability, no arrester hooks etc. It is questionable that this carrier could operate the F35's we will have in 8/9 years time either due to technological issues.
Your information (or whatever source you have) seems to be rather duff.
There is an agreement about co-operation that may lead France to buy one of ours, or build their own, Queen Elizabeth class carrier and there is an agreement about working together.
- Philip, the MP is just saying what I said on this forum over the last two years,I have open a post on it in the members page,please join up and have more of your views seen.
- Britain's defence strategy cannot be based on high-tech warplanes and nuclear subs and the like.
Recent wars have proven that air-campaigns in order to obliterate a system are followed by turmoil.
The result of the Bosnia air-campaign was that hundreds of thousands of people fled their homes so that hundreds of thousands of others could return. I mean, I'd have expected the local churches of the Serbs and Croats to find a peaceful solution.
The result of the Kosovo air-campaign was that hundreds of thousands of people fled their homes, because they were Serbs. I'd have expected Serbs and Albanians to find a humane way to solve their dispute.
The result of the Afghan air-campaign after 9/11 was that the USA, Britain and Canada, and other allies, marched in, and are presently involved in a ground-campaign that cannot be won.
The previous Vietnam air-campaigns in the 60s did not prevent North Vietnam from winning, and the USA lost over 57,000 soldiers during that war.
The result of the first Irak air-campaign was that the second Gulf war broke out, and that air-campaign was followed by armed resistence and terror campaigns in Irak that left many thousands of mainly US soldiers dead and wounded, and a mass exodus of mainly Christian refugees from Irak.
Hopefully the people of the USA succeed in telling the world that America will no longer pay the price for other people's problems and armed conflicts, and hopefully Britain will become a neutral Country with an Island Army, an Island Nation protected by an Island Fleet, the ships with the Trident on the sail.
No-one would dare bother us!
- Barry
From todays Telegraph
Royal Naval aviators are training with the French, whose jets they may have to use while they await the arrival of the new Joint Strike Fighters, which are unlikely to be delivered before 2020.
The first five of 30 Royal Navy pilots have begun French language training at the defence college in Paris before they join the carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, where they will fly Rafale jets.
- Marek - You mentioned France as having 4 carriers it was that I am correcting. If the telegraph said that then they are wrong. It is also a fact that the RAF do not have jets currently available to fly off carriers.
That said - pilots need to be trained to fly off carriers and to obtain the right skills to do so. It makes complete sense for some of that training to be in co-operation with France. Some pilots have been doing similar training with the US Marine Corps who fly F/A18s off carriers. - Alexander - British Forces suffered a lot of losses because of a lack of conventional carrier capability during the Falklands War.
Air superiority is a vital component in any combat and a carrier is the most powerful conventional weapon to project power and provide air superiority wherever needed. Such a carrier and the Queen Elizabeth would be invaluable off Libya right now.
It is because we are an island, what is more one with important overseas interests, that a powerful, modern and flexibly arned navy is vital to our security. - Barry, there are no British ground forces in Libya, and Gov. has stated the declared intention not to send any there either.
As for the contending forces there, Col. Gedaffi seems to have plenty of support among the people, and the rebels haven't made headway even with Nato planes in action.
To send an aircraft carrier to help the rebels would be unworthy of our Navy and unfair towards the many Libyans who do not support the rebels!
A war between two sides of the same people should not be escalated, so I would suggest we pull out our pilots and invite the contending sides to sit at a round table and talk peace.
There is nothing else we can do, but to bomb one side into submission would leave them with anguish, as has happened in the past when one side has been bombed into submission.
My British sense of fair play forbids me from ganging up on one side in a civil war, it's not our war to go and fight!
I have written an article called the Battle of Edgehill. Just immagine some foreign army had marched in and ganged up with one side and destroyed the other in the English Civil War; we would have become the fools of the world!
- What we have to remember is the first lesson in listening to politicians or those who pontificate at the behest of politicians.
There is much more to this than meets the superficial eye as there always is.
The powers that be will always, always give out press statements and put forward their ideas in a very considered way. They will have a news management team who will write drafts, re-write those drafts and write them again until they consider the message acceptable for maximum effect.
So to bring this point home let us examine the latest issue affecting our local area and the extraction of gas from coal seams underneath our feet.
If you believe the BBC (millions do for God's sake and I pity them) or if you have heard about the film "Gaslands" and take their message as gospel then the chances are that you are gullible enough to believe that this sort of extraction is dangerous and evil and can lead to earthquakes, flammable tap water from "yer faucets" and the end of the world and all that.
Of course the producers of the film lied and the BBC swallowed that lie when the producers blamed the effect of a cigarette lighter flame causing the water to combust on the fraking process. That interesting scientific phenomenon has been apparent for many years, in fact years before any shale gas extraction.
But this is the message that the film producers and the BBC want you to take home because it fits their agenda and judging by the response they have, on the whole, succeeded in their quest.
And so it is with this latest news regarding NATO.
I haven't bothered to really gen up on what's going on regarding this issue but it's probably got more to do with the fact that the USA is broke and can't afford to be the world's policeman anymore than anything else.
It'll all blow over tomorrow anyway. - Alexander - who said anything about committing ground forces to Libya? I did not. We have aircraft flying over Libya and conducting ground attacks daily. A carrier would provide massive logistric advantages.
You have a remarkably naive view of the world that is thankfully not shared by those in power. - I thought Gov. was doing well in reducing hi-tech arms spending. To me it seems a prelude to not getting involved in another Afghanistan!
Your calls for more military spending seem to be a cry in the desert, Barry. - This U-Turn Goverment and that is just what they are must now see it is time to get rid of some of their front line in the administration and ministry,s they have lost any creditable and honour it had with the public and as for their leader U-Turn Dav he must go to.
- No Alexander not at all. My view is very much shared by the Conservative mainstream because Defence has been badly under-funded for 13 years while they have had increased commitments imposed on them.
The government are sympathetic to that view as well because Defence is the priority department that has been identified for above inflation increases from 2015 by Osborne, once the current austerity programme eases.
Sadly defence has had to be seen to unjustly carry a share of the cuts programme for political reasons. I have said many times before defence is the one and only department that should have its budget increased and must be the no1 priority for spending at all times. - What about all your partys U-turns Barry?
- Barry, the defence of our Island Country is not questined by me, only the idea of getting involved in all and sundry's problems elsewhere.
We could have a million soldiers and more, but we don't need all the hi-tech stuff of the past, that's my point.
- Vic - some are good, some are bad - a coalition form of government has consequences. A lot I want to see done will never get done while in a coalition but as long as they persevere in the right direction on the economy then all is well.
Alexander - you have a very narrow definition of the defence of our country that is not shared by anyone who knows a thing or two about the dangers of real world. - Barry, Gov. has made the right decisions to reduce hi-tech military spending. It seems evident that Parliament did dome strategical thinking and came to the conclusion that we don't need so much sophisticated and expensive weaponry.
Gov. has also decided to spend more money to vaccinate all the poor children of the world. Times are changing, Barry, and as you know, I support Gov. on right decisions.
What we do need, Barry, is more Police. - Alexander - they have been forced reluctantly to cut military spending but it will need to increase and indeed it will. I expect them to increase defence spending ahead of the planned increases in 2015.
Make no mistake while some projects have been scapped there are plenty more going on - the F35 and new carriers though only one may go into service (I think both will....), the Type 45 project continues and the development for a Type 23 replacement is started. They are also continuing with the Astute programme.
The RAF have a number of programmes while various elements of army kit are being upgraded including new armoured vehicles.
Some of the most technically advance weaponry ever is under delelopment.
This is all good news - in spite of cuts to spending.
We need a strong, well equipped and flexible military more than ever. - Barry, the head of the Navy has stated that British involvement in Libya should not continue once the 6 months period is over: by then it will have cost Britain 1 billion pounds.
So you have it from the chief of the Navy in person: military interventions in Africa are not sustainable, and cost us a lot of our money.
Only yesterday you were telling me that those in power do not share my views.
Meanwhile, Dr. Fox has confirmed that the strategic defence review will remain intact!
- Alexander - he is correctly stating that the Royal Navy is overstretched and that bears out my case that more resources are needed. That is the angle he is coming from, fighting for more resources from the Treasury and the MoD.
Those in power most certainly do not share your views. - Barry, the commanding Admiral did not ask the Government to increase military spending, but to rather cut back elsewhere on the Armed Forces so as to give more funding for the Navy IF the Libya mission is to go on till the six months are over.
He did not state, therefore, that the overall spending on defence should be increased.
A chief of the Army stated that within nine years, Britain won't be able to conduct any war, and one can assume he means with that an oversees war in other people's problems.
As for defending Britain or any British Isles (including our Falklands which are British), the commanders in the Armed Forces have not stated that we are in any danger of under-spending on the military.
It seems that my views are in line with Gov.s and the Armed Forces, Barry! - Alexander - do read what is said properly, both by me and others including the admiral and senior officers. You do have a tendacy as other have pointed out to ignore the facts. You might also consider trying to understand what is being said between the lines.
The government has stated that military spending will increase faster than inflation from 2015. The government and these senior officers are not agreeing with you. - Barry, I'm agreeing with the Government on this issue, the Hariers and Ark Royal are being scrapped, many other hi-tech military projects are either scrapped or frozen, military spending has been drasticallly cut, it's been noted by the commanding Admiral that when the 6 months Libya mission is over, the Navy cannot go on with that mission.
These are the facts, and I expect that soon aur lads will be returning home from the Libya mission.
- Alexander. The terrible economic situation simply means that defence spending has had to take some of the spending cuts. Personally I thing defence spending should be spared cuts because it has been under funded for such a long time.
You seem to think that the government is doing so because it does not believe, like you, in defence spending. That is not true - this is being done reluctantly.
Many in the government are very keen indeed on spending more on the armed forces as I am. Defence spending as I said, is set to increase again from 2015 in real terms.
I should also point out that the cuts to defence are among the lowest departmental cuts.
Yes some projects have been cancelled but thankfully there are many more continuing.
I hope and suspect that additional funds will be found to ensure that the Libya mission can carry on as needed and what you are hearing are warnings that more resources will be needed if Gaddafi does not fall soon. Make no mistake, resources will be found to support the Libyan mission until the objective has been achieved.
You are assigning your own hopes and theories to what is happening - they are wrong, the hopes and objectives of the government are very different to yours and we should be thankful for that! - barry
what is the objective of the libyan mission?
it seemed originally to be about stopping government forces killing their citizens, as we know there is always a real reason that we find out about a lot later.
if it is about regime change, what do we really know about those that are waiting in the wings?
history shows that the west has an appalling record in sticking the right man in. - The elephant in the room is the question as to whether or not we would be able to defend the Falkland Islands if the Argentines decided to go for round two.
Bad new by the way. NASA have just confirmed that we are in all likelihood heading for another Maunder minimum. This is serious stuff people and will make most contemporary conflicts pale into insignificance if the full effects of this phenomenon do indeed come to pass.
You heard it here first. - Barry, I am somewhat concerned that you do not grasp what I am saying: I have not written that Britain should not spend money on defence, but that we should not get involved in other countries problems in various continents.
Of-course some countries are different, such as Canada, Australia and New Zealand, but these have the same mentality and social background as we do.
However, in many other countries, people can have completely different outlooks towards democracy, freedom and even culture.
To give you an example, Al Quaeda was not anti-western to start with, but fought against the Soviet forces in Afghanistan. Once their objective was achieved, they turned on the West.
Many tribal systems in the world do not work along the lines of democracy, but can be non the less beneficial. Don't believe for one minute that the rebels in Libya are fighting for democracy as we know it.
Often, people know what they want, and when a conflict breaks out, they know how to solve it themselves through an agreement when they realise that fighting does not solve the dispute.
Bombing people to power is never a good solution, and all I am saying is that our defence should be measured for our own country, that we should not march head-on into every upheaval that occurs in Asia and Africa.
You seem to misinterpret this as if I were saying that we should not have a defence force.
My other point is that we don't need hundreds and hundreds of hi-tech warplanes and so many ultra-modern warships, as the Cold War is over.
If anyone invaded us, it wouldn't be a country with hundreds of modern warplanes and hundreds of warships.
As for anti-terror intelligence, the best method is to keep alert, invest in the appropriate Police units, and maintain strong operational contacts with other countries' anti-terror efforts, which we already do!
But then you keep saying that we need to have massive military armaments to get involved anywhere in the world. You state that this is what the Government wants, and I dispute this!
I do not believe that Gov. wants this, else they wouldn't have made the defence review, but would have increased the military budget instead. - Here's a figure to make you laugh, at least it made me laugh.
Total UK defence spending as a proportion of gdp - 2.5% approximately.
Government's ringfenced target of UK foreign aid - 0.7% of gdp.
Gulp.
I think we'd best start being nice to Argentina and give them some of that aid lest they decide they want the Malvinas back. - Alexander - We are not isolated and must play our part in the world. We also so have many overseas interests - sea lanes need to be kept open, overseas territories protected etc. To do this we need strong armed forces and a decent sized navy.
Your isolationism in highly dangerous to this country.
I think you will find that Al Qaeda did not exist at the time of the Russian occupation of Afghanistan, they pulled out in early 1989. We helped and supplied rebels fighting the Russians for whom Afghanistan was a strategic prize. Some, repeat some, of those rebels later became the Taliban while others are now our Allies there. Bin Laden, a Saudi, went to Afghanistan and helped the southern tribes in their fight against the Russians.
He formed Al Qaeda a little before the first Gulf War (in 1989 I believe) in order to promote a global Jihad.
This is a different organisation to the Taliban (if they can be called an organisation). The Taliban, after they seized power, supported the foreign Al Qaeda terrorists by providing training camps and sheltered them helping them to plan terror attacks and build their organisation..
He stepped up his attacks in response to what he considered was an American occupation of 'holy' Saudi Arabia. This was in respect of US forces stationed there as a result of that war.
Among his first major terrorist acts were the bombing of US Embassies, the World Trade Centre (before 9/11) and an attack on a US frigate in the Gulf.
His hatred was not only turned against the USA but against the west and western lifestyles and freedom. Remember the Bali bombing - Spain too. many countries have suffered attacks not just the UK and USA.
Ultimately though many more muslims have been murdered by his organisation than his declared enemies. Anyone who does not support his warped view of Islam is an enemy. - Barry, to fight terror, we need more Police, and plenty of public awareness. Gov. should invest some billions in recruiting more Police.
Even soldiers can be used in Britain in surveillence against terror.
The vast majority of governments in the world do not want terror groups, so we have many allies in this sense.
The problem is when soldiers go to foreign countries to fight, and are considered as foreigners by the local people, or by a part of them, and people like the Taliban then say they are fighting a foreign invasion.
It also happened in Irak, and elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge, the Afghan Taliban do not support Al Quaeda any more, maybe the Pakistan Taliban do, I don't know.
Does this mean that British soldiers will have to stay in Afghanistan to fight the Afghan Taliban, and then go to Pakistan to fight the Pakistan Taliban?
We would be on a never-ending path of war, and in return we'd get only hundreds of dead and hundreds of injured soldiers coming back, and thousands of traumatised soldiers.
If the Afghan Taliban do not support Al Quaeda, then what are British soldiers doing there?
Unfortunately, people might just wait and wait until they are fed up seeing dead and wounded soldiers coming back, before they say: Stop!
If we add up the number of all the allies in the world who don't want terror groups, and count their warplanes, the number probably comes to many, many thousands, and many hundreds of warships, and all this to fight the Pakistan Taliban that maybe support Al Queda, whose head-office seems to be somewhere in northern Irak???
Hmmm!
- Alexander - I have said before your view of the world is simplistic.
Terrorists are not all we are fighting or may have to fight or defend against in the future.
We need a wide range of capability able to respond to a whole range of existing and potential threats. That costs and it is a price worth paying. - i am still awaiting being told what the end game is for libya.
every time we get involved in a conflict retired generals line up to complain that our politicians have no plan for when the military leaves. - The downfall of Gaddafi if they were honest.
- Barry, wherever there are rebels, there are Gedaffi-loyal soldiers to counter them. Many African countries consider the NATO actions an abuse of the UN resolution and the Colonel was recently seen playing a game of chess with a top Russian chess player.
It seems that Colonel Gedaffi's army won't be going by the end of the six month mission, so there you have a strategical outlay.
The British pilots are suffering from fatigue, as I read the other day on the news, and the Navy and Air-force are drawing on their reserves to keep up the mission. Some allies are already scaling down.
So it seems Britain's best option can only be to quit the mission and invite the competing sides to peace-talks, perhaps without the clause that "Gedaffi must go and must be put in jail", but rather with some diplomatic flavour and a sense of sane reality.
I mean, if he doesn't go, does that imply we have to sit there till Doomsday spending billions and billons on very expensive missiles and spare-parts for Tornados and those other planes, of which I've forgotten the name? - You seem very keen to keep a tyrant in power oppressing his people Alexander.
- Barry, the USA and the Taliban are holding peace talks.
- Nothing new about that Alexander, perfectly normal. Though I suggest that you would be wrong to expect much from the extremer wings of the Taliban, but hopefully the less fanatical elements will see sense.
- If all goes well, our soldiers could be out of Afghanistan very soon!
- Naive as usual...
- On your latest piece Barry, the question has to asked who is likely to do the most damage to the British economy - the unions or the conservative party with it's extremely damaging policies. It's a no brainer surely?
At least the unions have something to actually gripe about whereas the tories, as it stands, are hellbent on pursuing policies which will make Greece look like a tea party.
The only problem is that there is no real alternative. Both labour and the liberals share the tories vision on most things and this puts the electorate in a position where they will simply throw their hands in the air and not bother voting at all. - sounds to me that barry would positively welcome a prolonged strike purely for party political purposes despite the damage it would inflict on the economy and the general public.
all the utterances from the coalition seem to be of the same view, ed b*lls has seen through it as have most people. - Actually no Howard - I am saying how pointless and simply mad these strikes are.
- From the Irish times:
"THE BRITISH government could massively subsidise the Irish wind energy industry under proposals to be considered in London today.
Britain believes the west coast and the seas around Ireland can provide it with a large amount of its renewable energy and could be willing to subsidise offshore wind farms there".
It goes on to say:
"Industry groups here say such a move could be worth up to €1.6 billion a year to the Irish economy".
So what I can't get my head around is why there is a need for a strike in the first place. There's so much money sloshing around the UK economy all the unions have to do is insist that the government release the figures which will no doubt show that we are not in debt and have enough money to run the world, feed the poor and provide countries such as Ireland with beautiful wind turbines.
What a fantastically uplifting start to the week. It warms the cockles of your heart to know that things are looking up for us all. - i think the links between the u.k. and the irish republic have been long established and both countries rely on each other a lot.
when we joined in the irish bail out our self interest came into play.
most of our banks have a lot of money tied up in ireland and also our manufacturers do a lot of exporting there.
wind farms seem to be the in thing so i cannot see a problem with 2 countries benefiting from them. - Yes Howard, the Irish bail-out was a different situation to the Greeks. The Irish are at least making a serious attack on that deficit of theirs.
- I figured out the following: Last year, the Germans and French gave so much money to Greece on the first bail-out, that many people from these two charitable associations (I mean countries) can't afford to go on holiday to Greece any more.
As a result, the Greek economy is all the worse off! - alex,who in there right mind would want to eat kebabs and drink oozo all day long,there is more to life than that.
- I am not surprised in the least regarding the financial trouble Greece has got itself into. We have been going there for many years and it has always reminded me of the Middle East in the sixties, a bit of a 3rd. world country. When this country is pressurised by Brussels regarding recycling Greece doesn't appear to know what recycling is in the slightest. Speaking to many Greeks they have no idea how to collect taxes,most people who work there in the Summer pay none at all, as well as many residents who have permanent jobs there year long. The British taught the world how to collect taxes so what happened in Greece where they had a lot of influence in the past?
- what david has posted endorses my view that greece will not get all the austerity measures through.
ordinary people are aware that the rich sometimes "donate" sums of money in taxes but nothing like the amounts they should be paying.
someone on 100 euros a week is hardly likely to accept a wage cut and price rises when they know the wealthy will not be paying their share. - 'Should' be paying? if tax evasion is endemic in Greece then they need a root and branch reform of the whole system. If they have a starting point of getting simpler and lower taxes then they will be harder to avoid and there will be less incentive to avoid them Chances are their tax take will increase on the back of them being made lower and simpler.
None of that excuses the cronic overspending and dreadful financial management by the Greek government for many years.
They are now reaping what they sowed. - Hmmmn, I think the Greeks are onto something here. Surely we pay far too much tax in this country making us poorer and uncompetitive. Take a look at petrol taxes, alcohol and cigarette duty and worst of all green taxes.
Seems to me they had the right idea but took it just a little too far. - philip,i agree with your sentiments about being ripped of over taxed and now having to work lork longer for less dosh.
- i think the greeks may have lost their marbles on this one.
not for the first time though just ask the british museum. - howard,i heard you have some stashed in your spare bedroom.lol.
- I am going to be very tied up from early Friday morning and will not be able to log on much at all until Monday.
I therefore will not be changing the blog Friday night/Saturday morning as usual for which I apologise.
Beside....
I would hope that instead of sitting at home in front of a computer you will be joining me in the glorious sun of a Hellfire Corner weekend in Pencester... (touch wood!!!...)
If I don't know you please come and make yourself known to me.... - how will we recognise you without your officers uniform barry?
i shall be there over the two days should be some great photos from the event, ian and tom being ex forces usually take loads and post here.
on your last point the weather forecast seesm to be improving all the time.
sunday will be a sun screen day. - Its a test Howard - a few small clues may be around, like 'organiser' badges..... I am sure anyone can narrow it down to me...
Yes, indeed weather looks more promising. I will be there from 7am tomorrow and will barely be leaving the park all weekend! - barry need a word,i will try and catch you over the weekend.
- OK Brian - see you then...
- Barry, some things are good for you...some things are not ....
I decided last night to go to bed earlier, believing it would be good for me, and now I'm sitting here at 5.30 in the morning. It's too early to go to work, too late to go back to bed... - those two gezzers are straight of the muppet show.cant remember the names,but they where grumpy old gits at times.
- Quote:
"Well, well, well, the nanny state strikes again". Indeed the nanny state struck many times before but like many you were willing to go along with nanny because nanny knows best.
Funny how one can pick and choose which particular targets which nanny has in her sights and either agree or disagree with what nanny says.
So when the idiots banned smoking in pubs where were those who profess to free thinking and a general outlook of letting adults behave like adults? Oh, suprise, they were there right behind nanny's apron shouting from the sidelines saying "Ban smoking it's bad for you and second-hand smoke is bad because nanny said so and nanny is always right".
Well the glove's on the other foot now and I'm sure it hurts or at least it should do.
Don't forget it was outfits like the BMA and other discredited lobby bodies who helped push this dire anti-smoking legislation through and helped put us in a position where pubs are closing down permanently every week.
So reflect on the fact that in all probability, according to official research drinking when you reach a certain age is bad for you.
Ban the old from buying alcohol in much the same way that the young are barred. An age limit of, say 60, should suffice.
As for butter everyone knows that butter is bad and leads to furring of the arteries and therefore strokes and heart attacks.
Come on people get real. Something has to be done! - philip,the next two to be banned are 1,driving on the left and 2,useing the pound.euros will be king and mrs merkle-sarkozy will be prime minister.
- I should be updating the blog today but have been somewhat distracted this weekend and have not given it a moments thought. I need to catch my breath and catch up on the news and will do an updated blog as soon as possible, within 24 hours....
- theres some grusome pictures there barry,the tory ones more so than the labour ones.
in fact it looks like a most wanted roughs gallery on the tory bit. - David Cameron's legacy so far:
"Government invests £670,000 trying to create strawberry resistant to climate change".
Truly historians will look back and salute his courage, his strength and his indefatigablity.
A veritable visionary.
- don't take this the wrong way philip but i am a bit of a cynic.
i suspect that you are being disrespectful to dave, sorry i meant our esteemed p.m. mr cameron. - Nah, he's alright I suppose and it has to be said he fits the bill in terms of what is expected of a leader. He's a good speaker but not necessarily a good listener. There are some very sensible voices warning of the perils of some of his more odd policies but he refuses to listen to them. By doing this he is in grave danger of taking us all down the wrong path. I don't envy his or any other leader's challenge during these most interesting of times but there is a groundswell of thought which is at odds with much of what the government has planned.
As far as being disrespectful to him I'm sure his shoulders are broad enough to take any criticism. Thursday will test his mettle and here's hoping that he can find a way through the next few days.
All in all a good chap really who needs to rethink some fundamental ideas for the good of the country. - Barry, I think your comment to Gordon Brown belongs under T. Blair. A nasty nightmare!
Actually Britain's worst nightmare ever. - alex,mrs t and mr m where the real nightmares.
- This idea makes sense but it seems that the States merely jack up the debt ceiling always conveniently finding an excuse to raise it.
A ceiling on how much we pay into the EU might be more appropriate.
It seems they want every member state, or at least the richer ones, to pay 5% more into the EU budget.
Ho hum and guess what, exactly, they need this extra cash for?
I'll give you five seconds......................
Bingo! Yes green energy.
Ahhh yes that utopian dream. No doubt Dave will put his hand into our pockets in order to pay for all this being the head of the greenest government in the history of the world million and wunty one, the solar system, the universe, infinity and beyond. - Barry, a recent by-election in Scotland saw a Labour MP being elected, to replace the former Labour MP who had passed away.
But the votes in favour of Labour this time were less than half they received a year ago.
To me, this means that Labour is on the run, falling apart, so if the LibDems have already lost a large part of their support, at the next General Election, the Tories stand a good chance of getting in without any need of a coalition with the LibDems, but ONLY if we know that we'll be out of the EU without dealy.
Yes, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel, which is why you don't see me campaigning against the Conservatives. - Oliver Letwin lol.
Steve Hilton Rofl.
If this is the best the Tories can do then expect to remain junior members forever. - My saying is: if Napoleon hadn't advanced on Waterloo.
Meaning, if he had sought an agreement to remain within the French boundaries, he could have offered peace-talks on these bases, and avoided further battles.
But he did seek battle against the Union Jack, and our forces should be remembered, the lads who fought, and those who fell, to prevent Napoleon crossing over and invading the British Isles.
People all over the world will be observing us to see if we remember the Battle of Waterloo or decide to forget it.
We should have great military marches in remembrance of the Battle of Waterloo to show all and sundry that we are always ready to defend our Islands. - Well as you know my family now own the very big house that the Duke of Wellington spend alot of his time beween wars etc,and there are paintings of him around the place,great place to go to,you can log into it on the webb ,but not open to the public.
- alexander dover
a lot of posters hide that theyu realy support the views the conservative party and it's pleasing like others you have come out of the woodwork(your post clear you dont speak against tories)
but in the real world we are seeing a cobbled together govt that has little going for it.
the lib dems have destroyed themselves for 5 mins fame and greed.
the tories are internally ripping themselves apart
leading tories upset at how much time is given to the minority lib dems.
all looking towards an early bath - keith - you really should control your imagination, it does run wild at times....
- Keith, Barry outlined the Tory strategy regards the EU, and as I understand strategy, I believed it to be true.
There is no turning back, people can see more and more for themselves what it means to be in enormous national debt, and what it means for many countries to be in the same position.
However, it is better that it never happens again, so the more apparent it becomes how economies in Britain and Europe are in tatters, the more people will realise that we need to change and never turn back to the terrible calamity that Blair and the like got us in to.
There ain't no turning back, Keith, the train's going on to destination! - Alexander;
I'm sure you believe what you say, but in reality, we have seen mr cameron crumble so many times with his u turns, and i';m sure there are many more to follow.
so be warned europe will be another he wont be able to hold his govt to, nor the cobbled togethrer govt.
so don't get to excited. - The tide has turned against the EU Keith. Feelings are getting stronger about getting out including among DC's closest advisers. It may have to await an overall Conservative majority after the next election but out exiting the EU will happen.
- BAZ;
I'm neither pro nor anti the E.U. IT hasd it's problems.
But in the real world, the tories are unlikely to make this decision any time soon.they are heavily divided and unlikely to be able to form an outright govt.
The longer cameron waits the more unpopular he will become.
The lib dems in the past few months have shown how unpopular they are, and had canmeron gone to the country then he prob would have won.
but now we are seeing so much in fighting in so many areas
lb dem against lib dem
tory against tory
lib dem against tory
tory against lib dem
that it just can't survive as a credible govt. - no party will take us out the european union, that is clear.
the issue is whether the union will survice in its present form.
as things stand the poorer countries like it and want it to continue as they receive dosh from the richer countries.
when the german goverment bow to pressure from their people to leave the single currency things will then slide.
the single currency and political power are inextricably bound together, the german leadership has always said that.
i can see the future of the union as a free trade zone but nothing more than that. - No Howard - you need to catch up on the mood in Westminster and the mind-set of the new generation of Conservatives. The times are certainly changing. They are important because they are the ones who will be increasingly in charge. They have never been so anti-EU and what is more many of the older senior figures are also increasingly in favour of getting out.
Many thought that over time the EU would be more accepted by the younger generation but that has not happened, the opposite in fact.
The UK will get out, mark my words.
Keith - that's you and your wishful thinking. - todays tory goverment sorry coalition are blind,blinkerd and deaf to the fact.in short they they cant be botherd.
- Keith, there is a court case in the German High Court, or Constitutional Court, to decide whether the German bailouts of Greece, Portugal and Ireland were/are illegal.
The verdict should be out in 3 months time. If they decide that these bailouts are unconstitutional, then they must be halted immediately.
It may be the end of the EU. - A battle won nearly 200 years ago did us all a great deal of good didn't it? Fast forward to the present day and witness a battle lost this time with the Germans where they singlehandedly managed to kill off whatever remained of our train manufacturing industry.
One would be forgiven for thinking that the government were more concerned with sticking to the letter rules and regulations invented in Brussels regarding bidding contracts than looking after the economic security of the UK and therefore what lies in our best interests.
This coming from a party who tell us that they will "STAND UP FOR OUR BEST INTERESTS".
I'm sure most people would probably find themselves thinking "Doh, blimmin' labour again what are they like eh?", but from a Conservative government?- Unforgivable.
Some might even come to the conclusion that it's safe to say that the Conservative party no longer have our best interests at heart but that's just being downright cynical.
Right?
Right? - just a lttle known fact for you,there is two [2] persons buried in st marys church yard [near the allyway by huges the taylors shop] who fought in the battle of waterloo.
a clue,look for the name of hart on a headstone thats near a tree. - I will say again, i'm neither pro nor anti the E.U. but in reality there are no signs from the leading tories to pull out of the EU
Sadly with all the U turns it's very difficult to understand where the tories are coming from any more - It has to be said that the decision not to use Bombardier is a very good one in terms of our carbon footprint. It means that our aim to decrease our carbon emissions and meet the target set by this government is definitely on track, pardon the pun.
A cause for celebration for us all methinks. - PHILIP;
Not so sure on that one - philip is being sardonic keith.
- HOWARD;
That's a big word,
thought he was, but responded anyway - Where is Mr Barry Williams? The biggest political story for a generation has broken and he has no graph, pie chart or comment. Has he been gagged by central office? We should be told.
- This is the one and only time I will respond to someone so cowardly and pathetic they do not reveal their own name.
No-one gags me...
No-one tells me what I should post on
Political story - no, one about some bottom feeding journos is what it is and is already well enough covered in the press. - BARRYW
Usually you would cover such stories in your bloig whether it be tory, labour or whatever.
These stories are coming in thick and fast, and whilst i fully understand you don't wish to see past the rose tinted glasses, boris is now making his move
back benchers are out to destroy the party
cameron has so much to do, both within his own party
at same time cosy up to the hated lib dems
sort out the country
stop any leadership elections
blimey mate, they say a week in politics is a long time
but aint thngs changing quick
honeymoon period for cameron is over, the knives are out - Keith - I cover three blogs a week. That mean at most I speak here about three stories a week, some big stories, some that are just interesting.
You might like to sink to the lowest common denominator in trying to construct political point scoring about some criminal behaviour by journalists. But I prefer to deal with other issues that I find more interesting or are more important on the grander scale of things. - BARRYW;
It is your blog baz, interesting you wished to miss the biggest story that has broke for some time.
of course there are problems for your leader in all of this, and probably why you wished to avoid it, as he''s had enough bad publicity he won't survive fromn, and you don';t want to be the one to put the nail in his coffin.
i fully understand - You are just up to mischief there Keith - the scandal is about journalists and in this country you are not guilty by association thankfully or we would all be up before the beak, you included....
- barryw;
you are partly right, - I will go and will not darken your Log again but I do think if you are not being gagged that you should comment on this story. Could you comment on the hacking of murder victims and bereaved families, whether the actions of the NoW were endemic and how brave the Guardian have been to expose this.
Could you comment on the public outrage and the stance taken by the companies that pulled their adverts. And on News International's corporate governance.
Can you comment on the toothless Press Complaints Commission and their Tory peer head.
What about commenting on the need for a public enquiry and do you agree with the coalition MP Simon Hughes when he says that it should be headed by a judge and one that is not a freemason.
Do you want to comment on the illegal practices by NoW and the failure of the police to bring criminals to book.
Or what about the closure of the NoW paper, the likely relaunch as the Sun on Sunday. Or the loss of jobs at the NoW and the failure of R Brooks to resign or for NI to sack her.
Or the poor judgement of David Cameron in employing Coulson and taking him in to No10 with him.
You may well feel this scandal is a small one but I do not understand your reluctance to comment as you have so much to say on your Log on these type of issues usually and if no gag applies then you should comment now as we may assume you are waiting for the spin document to arrive to you from central office. Bye - well said mr hacked off
- interesting blog this one, needs a bit more flesh on the bones though.
barry
if say someone single, aged mid twenties was to go for a pension or isa, what would be the minimum per month that they should invest to get a pension about twice the state pension?
i would reckon that a fit older person would need around that figure to have an enjoyable retirement. - Barry, at the moment I pay NI £2.40 a week.
In your view, is that enough, or should I add a pound or two elsewhere? - Alexander - I have absolutely no idea of your circumstances and it would cost you at least £252 plus VAT to get an answer to that.
Howard - it depends on what variables you use and a whole lot of different factors. As to what someone needs that is also a very personal thing to each individual but as a minimum you may not be far off.
If I get a chance I will provide a few examples tomorrow. - If you are looking for independent financial advice you could try unbiased.co.uk
Just type in your postcode and they will suggest ones near you. - well I can tell you looking at one of my old pay sheets date on it is 12.04.2006 and I paid weeky my National Insurance for that week was £60.08p so I would say you should add to the amount you are paying or you will not get a full state pension when you pack up work.
- Barry, that figure for independent advice equates to two years of NI payments.
Thanks Helpful E. Kent
Thanks for that, Vic. At the moment I'm looking into extending my gardening activity later on in the year, with some plans to see fruition next year. - Vic/Alex - There is a qualifying time for the Basic State Pension, not a qualifying amount paid to get it. That is 30 years of NI payments for the full State Pension.
There is the S2P top-up which is earning related but government plans will be getting rid of that for the larger pension of £140 pw.
Alexander - I misunderstood your question. - No need to worry, Barry. I'm just looking into renting a garden to increase my revenues.
This might offer me the chance to pay a slightly higher contribution on NI too.
It will certainly do me good health-wise - All I can say is I paid 50years+of NI PAYMENTS even when I worked for myself and I get the Full State Pension
- i think that is what barry is saying vic.
getting back to my hypothetical question, can we base the income on the national average and take into account that the single person is likely to get shacked up with someone in future years and have rent to pay.
i say rent as according to the media young people today are destined to not owning their own home. - Alexander - you do not have to pay more NI to get a bigger state pension. It does not work that way.
Rather than an 'opportunity' to pay more NI you would be better off investing or saving money. First, as a rule of thumb, make sure you have at least 3 months spending in an accessible bank savings account, then consider other options. - Howard - re your question.
To get a income of £7,500 per annum (today's money) in 40 years time using the following parameters you would need to build up a fund of £580,000.
Investment growth 7%
Inflation rate 3%
Investment charges 1% pa
You would have to invest £172 per month, increasing annually at National Average Earnings.
If you started 5 years later to get the same fund/income 35 years later you would have to invest £256 per month also increasing at NAE.
Also please note: The income quoted is level and without widows benefits. To have a fully indexed pension and a 50% widows pension you would have to virtually double the investment.
There are no guarantees about these figures and progress to the goal would have to be monitored and reviewed. A small change in any of the assumptions can make a big impact on the outcome.
If that £7,500 income were to represent a 'half-salary' from the public sector pension after 40 years service, with 50% widows and full indexation they would get a tax free lump sum on top, of 3 times the annual income. Run the percentages and perhaps you can see why the public sector arrangements must change. - am i reading that right barry?
did you mean £.1500 as £.7500 is roughly the equivalent of a state pension which would require no saving up for? - £7,500 per annum income Howard from the investments only.
This is just a little over what, in today's money, the government are planning as the 'consolidated' state pension payable in about 5 years time to new pensioners.
In other words to have a little under £15,000 per annum in total to live on in today's money in retirement. - got it now barry, seems a lot of money to pay over a long period.
o.k. in the beginning and then later years, but the bit in between when children arrive and grow up would make it difficult to keep up. - That is correct Howard and that is why it is best to start early.
The best present for a new baby would be a single payment into a pension. The compound growth would be massive through their life.
Example:
A single payment on January 1950 into a pension of £100 (in today's money - £2,680) that grew by the same rate as the average UK share with dividends re-invested would have been worth £117,500 on 1st January this year after 61 years growth. (one hundred and seventeen thousand pounds - to make sure there is no mistake)
Incidentally, by contrast if it was invested in the average bank deposit with no tax taken out of the interest, it would only be £1,560 over the same period, less than it would need to be to match inflation.
Sources:
Barclays Equity Index Dividends re-invested
UK Building Society index
Retail Price Index
Scottish Widows
Can you not see why there is little sympathy for public sector workers moaning about the proposed pension changes.
Pension planning should start as early as possible.
I MUST EMPHASISE THAT NO-ONE SHOULD TAKE THIS AS A RECOMMENDATION TO INVEST. INDIVIDUAL ADVICE IS ESSENTIAL AND YOU MUST BE FULLY AWARE OF ALL THE RISKS. - I would like to add to my earlier post about unbiased.co.uk - I should have said that they suggest independent financial advisors near to where you live.
Can I say that I do not work in the finance sector, I was just being helpful.
I looked in originally to see if there was a post with the words Cameron, judgement and poor in the same sentence as I thought this was a political blog. It looks like I was mistaken. - I think major story is one to see what cameron can get away with.
I don't think this one will go very far,
a small point i agree with barryw all should be elected and not appointed in this - All this is a great help to UKIP get seats next time round,And I will still be still up for it.
- UKIP the one policy party?
- We are in the second week of the biggest political scandal in a generation and there are no comments by the local blues on this blue blog and I wonder why.
Can I help and suggest a post beginning with David Cameron was wrong... - using a pseudonym will guarantee that little heed will be taken of your request.
- No heed at all Howard in fact.
- I was only trying to be helpful. The trouble is that this now begs the question as to whether this an ex-blog as it appears to be no more. It looks to have shuffled off its mortal coil and snuffed it.
- helpful(east kent)
doubt it mate - Thanks for the information and advice, Barry.
Since my work situation took a new turn recently, I have some money saved, however it is still a far cry from three months spending.
More like a few weeks.
But I am building up through more work, and am looking into further options. Tomorrow I'll be starting a new round of work, a contract that should last several months. - Good for you Alexander.
- It seems that the cuts announced at the BBC have now having a massive effect on the ability for their staff to do their work properly.
Either that or they are taking industrial action judging by the performance by their esteemed attack mouse Jeremy Paxman who has taken it upon himself to adopt the style of Philip Schofield or some other daytime telly presenter.
Chris, seven houses, Hoon whose catchphrase is rumoured to be "What to points make? - Me off the hook" when he walks into cocktail parties with his latest squeeze on his arm was invited to discuss his latest wheeze to impoverish the fuel poor but was instead subjected to a cushion of blows from Jezza who found himself going through the motions of a supposedly hard hitting BBC interrogation.
So we were treated not to a sensible discussion on how the UK is now screwed by the tories via it's stupid energy policies but a pre-scripted rant on the nine day wonder that is the hacking affair.
Rather reminds me of the tory party really. Pointless, overpaid, irrelevant and costing us all the Earth. - cant disagree philip
- Personally I can't see Scotland separating from Britain, as Scotland is a constituent country of Britain.
Scottish identity is fully preserved, and has never been questioned within the Union.
The idea of more internal tax-raising and less centralisation is great, but then I fully support this idea at County and District level anyway.
In the case of Scotland, this would essentially mean Scottish counties having greater local economic administration, and the same would apply to England's counties. - [whisper, whisper. So as not to awaken Barry...]
To get right to it,
Barry this goes to show that you are not made of the same stuff as mere Politicians. (a good thing, in case you are wondering)
The Tory Party, however, is made up from those lesser mortals;Politicians. As such they spent their time in opposition green with envy and lacking any ideas of their own, but perhaps even they can be forgiven for, doubtless, they were only doing what Rupert wanted them to do.
If only it hadn't rained at Waterloo in 1815 we could have been saved all this Anglo-Saxon mumbo-jumbo.
Oh for what might have been? - If it hadn't rained at Waterloo, Tom, Napoleon wouldn't have fallen asleep half way through the battle.
But it rained, and that's when general Wellington Boots marched forward... - What might have been eh? Cameron not elected as Tory leader, Chris Huhne not filling the pointless post of energy and, cough cough minister of climate gravity and volcanoes and making the poor even poorer, aah yes what might have been.
- ...Why is it that the housing market continues to 'flounder'? Yet everywhere else must return to economic reality?
Is not the drop in house prices part and parcel of a return to economic reality?
What is this "confidence", that must pick-up? If not a return to 'hype'?
It seems to me that it was 'bravado' that brought us to our present sorry pass and to seek to replace that with confidence + schadenfreude is as likely to sum to bravado as it is to any sense of reality.
Whipping Greece with more debt is hardly likely to get our banks, or any banks, their money back.
We all may as well write-off all transnational debt, for any road back to reality must begin with a re-awakening, rather that as at present an increase in our tossing-and-turning in the perpetual sleep of otherworldliness.
The truth is it was never right to expect something for nothing, far less great riches for nothing. How can we return to reality if that reality is the very thing, the very train, that brought us all here?
If the 'private sector' cannot perform it's miracle without public subsidy why is that subsidy better than the one that pays teachers and doctors in the public sector?
The search for "Negres Nouveau" goes on. 21st century capitalism has not only lost the pioneer spirit of earlier times and it's then tenuous hold on morality, but it lacks the slave and the tenured peasant and is now in the hands of schooled wannabes who think themselves entitled as of right to riches without effort and wealth without responsibility.
- very eloquent tom, i will look up "negres nouveau".
what i do not understand is why property prices are falling yet rents are rising.
it does not help house price stability if they demand deposits from would be home owners that are completely impractical. - bumped into a couple of candians this morning in poundland,and to say they wernt inpresed with the exchange rate [euro/pound] would be an under statement.in short they wernt inpressed by anything they seen of this country.
ps,they know live in belguim for reasons i didnt ask,i was being to polite to ask. - It's far, far worse for us you know. We are exposed big time to this crisis more than most people know. With credit default swaps being traded over the years from UK financial institutions when these countries do default who is expected to pay to cover these loses? Why none other than these very institutions. It's a terrifying scenario and will leave us more or less broke. It's a widely held view that the stress tests were very weak and did nothing to really expose how fragile the situation really is and goes much further than the £214 billion that is the supposed figure that we are exposed to.
You are right that there is a tax raid in the offing but with the current government it is a given that there is no way on Earth they will tell Europe to get stuffed. Quite the reverse is true. In fact it was only the other day that the conservatives whipped the party to vote for this very measure passing the vote to give Europe an extra £9 billion. Strangely enough it made a certain tory MP, Henry Smith representing Crawley, rather infamous for his ability to be a rebel on the issue by voting against the measure but in line with the government by voting no as well. Well done that man, he'll go far in this administration and I expect a job in the energy and volcanic and gravitational change ministry forthwith.
Who knows if the Euro will survive. Certainly not in it's present form with certain smaller and weaker states reverting to their previous type of fiat currency but whatever happens it's not good for anyone.
The big, and I mean big one to watch out for is America's triple A status and what happens to Italy. If it all goes tips-up then, as the song says, There maybe trouble ahead.
One more thing to watch out for over the short and medium term is a concerted effort by the government to put the blame on normal climatic events such as the Russian heatwave, the Pakistan floods and the Australian floods to climate change. Although it has been proved not to be so keep an eye on the propaganda to justify chris hoon's appalling policies which are set to bankrupt the UK. - I forsee an improvement, now that Vic has said he most definitely will drop the post of chairman of UKIP at the next meeting.
The situation should get better, and we might see some results.
After all, the chairmen of political parties are those that make decisions on economic policies.
It seems that many Tory supporters in Dover are also for us leaving the EU, so with a new chairman of UKIP we might see some interesting agreements at party level.
Someone's got to start somewhere. - I am a chairman of a very small part of a party,in that post I or any person who might take over will have no say on economic policies,All members are for coming out of the EU that is why we are in UKIP,I take on the roll of working more local.like the port of Dover,I have been saying where we stand on that at public meetings for the pass two years or more.I sit on four parish councils,and the NHS trust,and lots of other committees, So like many others I play my part but only because I like doing what I do,it keeps me young.
I will only be leaving the post of chairman if members comes forward then a vote will be taken. - Vic, you wrote you are packing in at the next meeting, and as far as I am concerned, that is the end of the topic!
If I wish to follow what UKIP does, I don't need to refer to you in any way. either locally or nationally. - barry,i doubt if the euro will disapear soon,my thinking it would be the pound seeing how weak it is. and as for our gdp thats well behind most of the eu.
- Brian - the Euro will not disappear, I have not said that. Try reading what I have said.
The British economy is weak and fortunately we have sterling to take some of the strain, a luxury denied the weaker European countries. Sterling is with us to stay - we will not fall into the trap the Italians, Greeks etc are in. A weak sterling is what we currently need. - try telling that to foriegn visators who come here and treated like crap with rubbish exchange rates and high taxes.they leave this country feeling ripped off and dirty.not quite the inpression we could do with.
- I have to disagree with you on that point Brian. Exchange rates will always disadvantage some countries. Go to Ireland, Italy, a whole host of countries overseas and you will find that tourists will complain about what their pound/dollar,dinar,franc is worth.
Being treated like crap is not an exclusive phenomenon to our shores. Most countries treat their own and overseas visitors like crap only sunnier weather can sometimes mask the pain. - DEMOCRACY IN UKIP
So UKIP doesn't believe in democracy then, chair makes all the decisions.
That im sure is not how the branch works, speaking with other
UKIP branch members certainly they all have a say and against vics wishes they decided NOT to support local candidates in the recent local elections. - sorry to have to interject here, at the end of the day this is blue barry's blog.
he makes statements and the idea is that we argue for or against what is posted.
some of the posts recently bear no relation to the issues raised and should be on the members threads.
philip is excepted as he is not a member. - howard
]my ione on ukip i put on the members page
no idea how it got here
it can be deleted if you wish - "Oh, what a sorry state we're in
we did not win, we did not win"
Sour grapes, just about sums the whole thing up.
Might things have been better with a minority as opposed to a coalition government?
[leaves space for laughter]
Points; 1,2,4,6,7,9 & 10: Are the very stuff of electioneering and like spending time and money on a sweetheart only to end the evening with a hand shake of parting at her door...
...You had the opportunity and yet you blew it.
Point 3: "Safe in our hands." became "Our hands in your safe."
Point 5: Ol' Ken has never been the Telegraphs' idea of a Tory.
Point 8: "Cuts" had to be seen to happen.
Along with the 'promise' of cuts across the board each day there were more and more pledges on spending. Spending in the billions too.
Pragmatism. Now there is a double-edged sword.
"Rule Britannia et Breton?"
Naturally, Barry, your own zeal for cutting the State lose from it's subjects (those pesky voters again) would have left money enough to invade and bombard left right and centre, but ... On who's behalf?
- no surprise there in the wish list of members other than that i would have thought that th n.h.s. would have been lower.
barry again refers to the coalition but it is not a 50/50 one in terms of m.p's, yet it seems that the yellows have a massive say.
i am not surprised that the big society figured largely, in a time of a massive deficit this is not at the front of the minds of any voters irrespective of political allegiance. - I think you'll find that most of the policies in that list are indeed tory, or at least cameron's and the extreme wetter tendencies of the party. They are comparable with liberal policies because there is little difference between the two parties.
Both share the same view on Europe, the environment, grammar schools, sentencing policies and many others.
Other issues such as immigration put the government in a position where they can do little about being subject to laws enacted by Europe.
So Tim Mongomerie is completely wrong on this one and is clutching at straws trying to bolster wavering support amongst the grass roots and real tory backbenchers who are, sadly, a dying breed. - barryw/all
many of your points i share(of course not all)==
1' lisbon treaty your probably correct
2;we do need to note climate change rather than turning a blind
eye to it
3;although i didnt agree with the tories nhs proposals, the u turns
just showed camerons weakness
4;the big society was never going to get off the ground many
leading tories didnt even have a clue what it was or when
told didnt think it would come to anything
5;conservatives look very very weaK on prison reform, and
law and order in general
6;grammar schools cameron like all parties need to be clear
on there real agenda on grammar schools
7;cleggs election, although the lib dems will be destroyed once a
general election is called, the tories(cameron)need to distance
themselves from the lib dems or see themselves destroyed to
8;defence what would give, barryw to allow more spending
on defence
9; immigration was raised and an attempt to sell the racist card
but it backfired
10; totally disagree - Keith, I don't know why you find yourself worried about climate change. You must be among the dwindling handful that are.
Of more significance is the revelation surrounding the Bombardier train maker issue in which the government told us that there was absolutely nothing they could have done about the bid being won by Siemens.
Well, according to to the Daily Mirror, it appears that far from having their hands tied behind their backs, the government could have indeed intervened and awarded the contract to Bombardier. Not only that but a last minute change of plan meant that the trade delegation to Africa left Bombardier chairman Colin Walton on the uninvited list, not to travel with the entourage.
So much for Mr. cameron serving our best interests eh?
I suspect this hackgate thing will see the government fall before too long. With every other man and his dog falling on his sword it's only a matter of a very short while now. - philip;
yes i am, concerned about climate change, and fear for the future of the world, and the damage our generation is doing to it.
but i'm as much annoyed/concerned over the bombardier fiasco - the man made climate change seems to be just another tax gathering exercise by governments, very few fall for it anymore.
much like when everything had to be green, manufacturers simply repackaged their products in green and stuck a few bob on the price.
people paid up because they wanted to feel good about themselves. - From the Mail:
"Opponents of global warming should be given less coverage by the BBC than the climate change lobby, the corporation will rule.
The BBC is set to publish a report tomorrow on its science output announcing changes to rules on impartiality.
Following the overhaul, programme makers and broadcasters will be compelled to give less prominence to those who oppose the scientific community's majority view".
Be careful Howard, be very careful what you say. You might find yourself reported to the climate police and there is no hope for you locked up in one of their re-education institutes.
- BarryW I caught the tail end of the Neil Kinnock item on the TODAY programme R4 where as you say above he called for reform. I just caught a bit of it but I do indeed remember John Humphries nearly choking on his cornflakes. However what Mr Kinnock was driving at was some sort of ideal although I doubt it could ever happen.
His views on a balanced press were about a world were the newspapers did NOT support either one party or the other, but took a neutral stance. We then therefore would not get into the current abysmal mess that we are all experiencing at the moment where politicians of all hue kiss the media ass.
Lets face it all political parties had dear oul Rupert slipping in and out through the back door..and as i say, no doubt kissing his derriere with aplomb.
They the politicians craved newspaper support, a sure fire route to victory, so this gave dear ol Rupe amazing powers as he owns all the top newspapers..the biggest selling sunday, the biggest selling daily, the weighty dailies and the TV station too, despite not owning 100% of it.
What Kinnock was trying to do was to suggest a way where that kind of media courting was not necessary. Unlikely to happen I suppose but at least it was an idea in the ring. - media moguls will always be with us and they will always influence opinion.
fortunately we have three quality newspapers that one can get decent information from.
the indepenedent stands head and shoulders over the rest, certainly living up to its name.
the telegraph, previously nicknamed the torygraph is of high quality and exposes hypocricy wherever it sees it.
lastly the murdoch owned times(subsidised to the tune of £50 million a year) gives balanced journalism. - Many, if not all, of the major areas of action in life and commerce these days are driven by people educated into the seats of power.
In the early days of banking it was Quakers who ran the show and more recently the baking sector drew on the retail industry to recruit it's leaders...
So too with the media. With the print media becoming more and more concerned with the selling of newspapers and not seeking-out and printing news.
My mind is drawn back to the film Jurassic Park and the character played by Jeff Goldblum and how he reeled against the very idea of such tampering with nature. The main thrust of that argument seemed to be that the scientists and the financial backers of the project had something that they had not worked through, but had had presented to them in a completed form.
So it seems to me is the situation we have now with capitalism. "Profit at all and any cost". "What's good for us is therefore good for everybody."
Part of this is the mantra of Barry's old pal Thatcher..."Trickle-down."
There is also no getting away from the fact that the rules that governed the expenses of MPs, as they stood, were perfectly adequate for honest people. Similarly; the methods, desires and modes of operation within Capitalism worked well within their checks and balances for the generations of operators who came up through the school of hard knocks, but things have got worse and worse since the areas of; Politics, Industry and Banking have been taken over by those who have been formally educated into them.
We have been living in a world where the love of money has held sway.
It is now (high) time to bring the focus of all our affairs back to our fellow man. People first to last.
- PAULB;
Journalists themselves have not helped to portray themselves as trustworthy and able to be given that freedom.
Whilst we shouldn't jump into any knee jerk reaction to the problem(we need to let the police/courts take there course) then maybe look at what the best way forward would be.
there is a lot more milage on all this fiasco, but kinnock has a point, but maybe its time for a bit of calm now - I can't quite get my head past this conundrum. Journalists are listed as among the most hated but newspapers still sell by the million. The other thing is that apparently the UK are up in arms over the hackgate saga and everything must be done to rid ourselves of this evil empire otherwise known as News International and yet I suspect there is not even one person in the UK who has cancelled their subscription to any of the sky channels or have taken down their satellite dish in protest.
I must say I'm bored to the front teeth of this issue clogging up the news agenda when there are things going on in the world which will, one way or another, impact severely on this country. But, of course, the state broadcaster has deemed it the one and only news item that the little people should take any notice off especially if it weakens a centre right government. - Keith - freedom is not 'given' it is ours by right. What we must ensure is that freedom is not taken away - that is a danger and we have lost enough freedoms as it is with the excesses of the surveillance state.
Not all journalists are bad and we should not throw out the baby with the bathwater.
Philip - you are so right. How many of those claiming to be horrified by the hacking are happy to pay their Sky sub and buy the Sun. - philip
i think your distaste for the b.b.c. borders on paranoia, the hacking scandal is the big story in the eyes of the public.
i do not see your logic about not buying the sun or using sky t.v.
the biggest villains so far seem to be the police, people will still call them if their house is burgled though. - Fair enough Howard I know it sounds like it's bordering on paranoia but if you consider that the coverage has been led mainly by the BBC as they have all to gain in terms of their leanings to the left and it suits their world view admirably. Notice how many times Millibrain has wheeled himself onto every television and radio outlet on the BBC (including radio 3????? what's that all about?) and given every opportunity to grind his axe. Not only him but a host of other labour luminaries are generally given free rein to spout the soundbites dreamed up from central party headquarters. Note that whenever a politician from the right is interviewed they are in general attacked and made to appear like the usual tory suspects.
In a recent poll most people in the UK were sick to death of the issue and just want the corruption investigated and the guilty punished and not this continual bubble-babble from wonks, hacks and political weirdos.
In terms of the logic of my argument about using sky tv I am just pointing out that if the country felt so strongly about what is happening they would cancel their subscriptions to any outfit connected to the Murdoch's. This is especially relevant to those MP's (most of them) who stood up to bawl and generally grandstand in today's special session in the commons before jetting of to their little gite or villa on the continent.
Two questions for these hypocrites:
Will you be cancelling your sky sports/entertainment package?
Will you be taking your holiday in Britain in order to save the bloody planet and not use a jet?
You know and I know the answer to both those questions is no and no. - FWIW
1. I have never bought any Murdoch paper and do not have SKY.
2. I always holiday in the UK (if abroad is so nice why do they all want to come here?)
3. The BBC which I listen to i.e. Radio 3,4 and World Service is the finest and most impartial and informative radio service in the world.
4. Man Made Climate Change is real and those who do not believe in it tend to be either fools or charlatans. - Bob, do you feel morally superior for not buying any Murdoch paper or having Sky? In my experience those who refuse to buy into any Murdoch products do so for political reasons (ie. Murdoch is a proto-fascist and I categorically refuse to support proto-fascists) or you find the news content not to your tastes. I find I have the same feelings towards the Guardian and the Independent as well as the Daily Mirror, the latter which I find an insult to the intelligence to Mankind in general.
As regards the BBC purporting to be the finest and most impartial radio service in the world I suggest you double check that and you might find a severe left-wing slant on most of their output. Check any news programme they broadcast and discover the pundits they put forward which invariably reinforces the BBC line which is pure Islington.
And finally, only an unquestioning person really falls for the man-made climate change myth and this tallies will with your previous assertion that the BBC is impartial. Only today, under the auspices of professor Steve Jones, the BBC have announced that they will no longer tolerate any deviation from the line that man really is affecting the climate. So much for supposed BBC impartiality.
One has to ask oneself where this organisation is going with this. Will they censure Euroscepticism even more than they do now? What other issues will the right on find unacceptable to broadcast?
Nah. Bring on Foxnews. That is what this country desperately needs - some news output to counter what is effectively a monopoly on free thinking. - Can we look forward to a piece on which countries we should get our Police Chiefs from?
Or from what walks of life would we be best recruit our constables?
I read one working in the police service questioning how a PR consultant could be paid a thousand pounds a day at a time when when cuts are being made at the front line; he is not alone there.
Was this Dave bouncing-back or ricocheting all over the place? - I don't quite see how space exploration is essential to the survival of the human race. After all We've been going strong for many thousands of years without venturing out into the cosmos. In fact I'd say that a little less time devoted to space exploration might do us all some good. It's costly, uses up vast amounts of fuel to get space vehicles reaching escape velocity and what do we get? - Vastly overblown BBC Horizon programmes which again cost a fortune and do little to further our understanding of the universe.
It's not as if these fantastic voyages do anything for us in the UK. Take the Bombardier scandal. A little backbone from David Cameron and thousands of jobs might have been saved but being the arch europhile that he is and wanting to grovel to those in the EU he has cravenly given away a lucrative contract to the Germans.
Space the final frontier? More like Derby is the last frontier before confirmation that there is little manufacturing base in this country. - philip;
i think thats the main point, the cost is it time with todays climate to pull way from this for some years to come
we have more pressing issues(as barryw keeps saying) - yep,its called the decline of the uk.
- serious decline brian
- i haven't seen any measures so far that stimulate growth.
basic food prices are rising due to many factors meaning that people have less spare money to spend on vatable items.
people are using their cars less because of rising fuel costs, gas and electricity prices are going through the roof so where is the growth going to come from?
maybe more people will take holidays at home this year, if they do they will realise why they will go abroad next year.
pity that the great picture of the space shuttle had to come down. - not looking good and more to come
- a repeat of the 1930s deep recession.
- brian
its not looking good - Indeed it's not looking good. Our triple A rating may well be downgraded. Once that happens it's not long 'till the house of cards really collapses. The slide to a full scale depression in the UK will happens quicker than everyone thinks.
Where is the promised balanced economy where our manufacturing industry was trumpeted to re-emerge? I think the government's stance on Bombardier tells us all where that idea lies - smouldering in a charred heap along with their other brainwaves such as the big society and the greenest government and clamping down on gravity, volcanoes and doing something about anti-matter.
The latest UK growth figures are bad, really bad. Ironically analysts put down part of these depressing figures to the bank holiday to celebrate this years royal wedding. That particular party cost us hundreds of millions in lost production. Now whose big idea was that?
- You are overly pessimistic Philip. Our rating is not in danger as long as Osborne carries on with his deficit reduction plan.
I just wish he would get tougher on government spending as he has not cut enough. he should also do more to promote growth including getting rid of the insane and counter productive 50% band, speed up the reductions in Corporation Tax and to get some real action reducing red tape on businesses.
Only two weeks ago some independent forecasters thought the economy would contract last quarter due to a range of factors - EU debt crisis, US debt crisis, Japan, excessive holidays, but no, it grew, a paltry 0.2% perhaps but nevertheless it is better than many thought. I am surprised but relieved. - Further to below. The US and EU problems are outside our control and it is up to them to get their own houses in order. Their unwillingness (particularly the EU) to act on the fundamental issues causing problems is a big concern.
- barry,dont you mean this countrys unwillingness to create movement in our gdp.at the moment all i can see is that the goverment is holding industry back by high taxs.
- barry
you mention the government reducing red tape on business, they are actually doing the opposite.
there is a thread on this subject on the members page. - Howard it's no suprise that the government have performed yet another U-turn regarding red tape. Their latest doughnut, if we continue with the driving analogy, is their volte face on the retention of DNA of those arrested but found innocent or not to face charges when arrested. Now I seem to remember Dave banging his tub pontificating on the freedoms of the English people, civil liberties, how wrong this all is, North Korea global warming polar bears blah, blah, blah but all we get is another manifesto pledge torn up.
A blatant lie in my books.
As far as being accused of being pessimistic in terms of our long term economic outlook I think that the reverse is true. In fact I felt I was holding back somewhat not wanting to frighten the natives.
The plain truth is this:
We have nobody really serving our best interests or if they try to they are deluding themselves.
Our long term energy plan is non-existent and mark my words we will see major blackouts in years to come. This will be one of the most serious dangers we face as a nation and is all to do with the tories obsession with saving the planet.
We used to have a department for trade and industry although I'm not au fait with how effective they were. Now we have a department for business, innovation and skills. In the future we will have none of these. Our business is hamstrung by red tape and green taxes and regulations, any innovation is again discouraged by the same regulation and as far as skills are concerned, well you only have to count the number of failing schools turning into academies to appreciate the skill level in this country.
Again I return to Bombardier but have had no acceptable answer as to why the government insist that they are unable to do anything about the situation where thousands of people will find themselves unemployed. It's too painful for the tories so I don't expect an answer this side of Christmas.
The current crop of new tory mp's were rumoured to be old fashioned right wingers, followers of Thatcher and cast in the mould of sensible, strong minded folk.
Well I for one see absolutely no evidence of this. All I hear is the collective cry "Oh woe are we, the whips keep ordering us to vote with the government".
- the last bit of your post sums the situation up philip.
the new intake came in guns blazing little realising that they would become lobby fodder for dave, this was proved after the newbie tried to get a bill passed banning the use of animals in circuses.
not a major issue i hear you say, however m.p's across the board agreed and the general public were all on board.
a good chance for dave to show his cuddly credentials, instead he went into bully mode for reasons that escape me and alienated many.
the same applies when the new intake make an issue about the e.u. this is proved by the late night votes that go under reported
the bombadier issue just goes to show what our leadership really think about our industrial base, maybe a life in eton and oxbridge has blinded them to the fact that people getting their hands dirty had made us a great power in the past. - so the gdp figurs where bad at 0.02%,so the question remains when is the econamy recory going to start.this year,next year or never.
- Brian - 0.2 not 0.02%, better than some thought.
Perhaps it will start when we get some common sense addressing the Eurozone. Italy, Spain, Greece, Ireland, Belgium, Portugal - all struggling will only start a recovery themselves when they free themselves from the Euro straightjacket. These amount to a major market for us and this will end uncertainty and help our recovery.
The truth is that recovery has started but it is rocky as all recoveries are. - barry,at least they are growing faster than we are.the current standing in the eurozone is 1% +,so in affect they are growing faster than we are.
- You need to check your figures Brian - you are wrong. When quoting figures you also need to be accurate and compare like to like.
There is a huge divergence between countries in the Eurozone. Germany is streaking ahead benefiting from the currency being pulled down by the weak countries, some of which are still shrinking. I was very specific in the countries I mentioned and all this shows how ill-conceived the Euro is.
This box wont let me provide a web link but if you copy and paste this into your broweser with www in front it gives you some background.
cnbc.com/id/43630391/Euro_Zone_Growth_Slows_in_June_as_Outlook_Dims_Survey
- By the government's own admission, energy prices are set to double over the next few years.
Goodbye any inward investment into the UK.
Goodbye many companies who will up sticks and move to where the gas and leccy bills are substantially cheaper and where the lights are guaranteed not to go out.
Say Hi to more Chinese made solar panels, windmills, smart meters for every household.
Say goodbye to many more elderly dying during the winter months because they are unable to heat the house.
This from a conservative government.
I say repeal the climate change act but this won't happen because we do not have any conservatives in the party anymore. - ........of course that last sentence should read "in government". In the party itself it seems there are angry rumblings that this policy should be consigned to the bin of history.
I agree with them. - not just the blues philip, it is the fashion for everyone to breast beat themselves about how awful humans are and how we are destroying the planet.
our politicians just go along with every trend going, dave is as gutless as the rest, maybe he believe humans were responsible for the ice age?
i know of one couple that have installed solar panels to help save the planet, will take about 25 years for them to break even on the deal.
no doubt they will move within 5 years and the panels will not affect the value of the house. - Indeed Howard and you know the one single reason they are installing these ugly black panels? Subsidies. Enormous amounts are being given away to those who can afford the installation of these things and guess who is paying for it?
The poor. It's as simple as that. The poor are paying for these things that do not work but are touted as a low carbon alternative to the awful carbon emitting power stations that will apparently raise sea levels and kill off the polar bear.
It's all three parties that are impoverishing millions with this hair-brained scheme. Five grand subsidies to buy useless electric cars - what's that all about?
But Husky dave and his merry crew continue to believe the myth, supported by those too naive to question the climate change scam, without the intelligence to spot a con when they fall over it and bolstered by those who will earn millions on this gravy train.
Even yesterday Ryanair has decided to launch their airline as being green. This was after Michael O'Leary denounced those who believed in man-made climate change as onanists and the idea of global warming as, erm, horse manure.
What does that tell you? That he had a road to Damascus moment? Or has he finally realised how to fleece people even more by jumping on the bandwagon?
Only a moron believes in this stuff nowadays. - "they also are reluctant to tax "
China; Where there is no need to be able to pronounce 'welfare', 'health & Safety', or many of the other considerations that a grown-up, enlightened state has rightly to keep in mind.
China; Had their 'growth' planned and executed for them by the very same bonus-fuelled, profit-driven, short-term thinkers of OUR business sector.
BUT!
The actual profits had to come from somewhere. That 'somewhere' was the market place of the western consumer. A body of people who had seen more and more of their jobs go East had yet to find the money to buy the goods they once manufactured, but now had to import from the same place their jobs were exported to.
Of course, Barry. You are right. We now MUST tax before we spend. Tax those who profit at the cost of jobs here in the West.
And yes, we need far less of the swaggering Government we have 'enjoyed' of late and more of a new Far Sighted and Publicly Focussed Government. Big on the thinking of where the money has to come from and Big on the taxing of those who seek to profit at the cost of our very own Big Society.
Tax breaks and over-generous public contracts that have put much of the Private Sector on the Public Dole must go too.
If the Private Sector is to grow and the Public Overspend is to be reduced money must be put in the hands of the consumer: higher employment, a decent wage and an end to reward for (continued) failure.
I attend not to your plaint and ever-so-salty tears on the subject of encouragement for the private sector. They are just plain fat and lazy where they are not inept and corrupt.
Have a nice day. :) - Tom - you are so wrong on many fronts it is hard to decide what to respond to. Describing the private sector as 'fat and lazy where they are not corrupt' is frankly an insult to millions of people who work the hardest in our society and on whom all of our wealth belongs.
High taxes reduce our wealth creation and are a certain way to destroy our living standards.
If we are lazy and stupid enough to burden our wealth creators sufficiently that they are unable to compete and create wealth, jobs and decent wages then that is entirely our fault. You cannot blame those countries that are operating more sensible and competitive economic policies.
If these countries continue to keep their public spending under control and under 30% of GDP, allowing their businesses to function and compete properly, the level of tax revenue they can obtain from their increased success without imposing higher tax rates will give them better public services than we have.
30% of a much bigger and more successful cake will deliver for them better standards of living and public services compared to 53% of a much smaller burdened economy as we have struggling to compete and grow.
I would like a hard and fast law to prevent our government spending more than 35% of GDP even in the depths of recession. That would mean our spending would have to average about 30% of GDP over an economic cycle. This would create a more successful economy more able to grow. Increases to public spending would then have to arise from increased overall wealth and not from higher taxes. This would end up providing for us much higher standards of living along with better public services. Indeed over time we would end up with even more being spent on public services representing a smaller proportion of a bigger pot. Getting to that is problematical and would require to very determined government action and some short term sacrifices but it would be worth it. - very interesting blog, i get the impression that barry is seeing the light about some of the actions of our present government.
the heavy hand of government is getting heavier by the day, intruding into our lives and also stifling businesses with more red tape.
anyway tom makes a valid point about china and the fact that they break all the rules of a civilised society, people die at work at an obscenely high level, add to that they fix their exchange rate to such a low level that it is unfair competition. - Howard - The bulk of the red tape is eminating from the EU and while I believe the government should do more to curtail it they are far, far better than the last government who broke every record for increasing red tape, big government and making everything so complex. The heavy hand of Brown has a lot to answer for.
I may critisise them (from the right) but that does do mean I am not supporting them as the best option currently available in the real world.
- Barry, big government has a problem, that too much tax goes to the central coffers, and not enough to the local administrative authorities.
Local Counties should have more to say in local economic matters and have more financial responsibility, both in gathering tax and paying out benefits. It would probably encourage them to create more jobs for local people and to reverse the situation of Britain being the world banker N.1.
As long as we have a central government trying to solve the whole world's problems with our limited money, and banks that lend out massive sums of money all over the globe, the sovereign debt will just go up. - 'Big Government' is more than central government, it includes local government Alexander.
It is just not the banks only lending to government, in other words buying gilts, but insurance companies and investment companies looking to secure income for pensioners and so on. Annuities are based on 15 year gilts.
That is not so much the problem, it is the levels of government spending. There will always be a gilt market and that is a good thing but the spending it supports must be at a sustainable level that does not put too big a burden on the private sector. - Interesting piece Barry. You are right when you talk about the business cycle. In fact, although late, it seems the Kontrieff ong wave cycle has once again proved that the more things change the more they stay the same. I've always thought that it was the tech revolution which posponed the forth part of the wave but events eventually had to sucumb to the inevitable. The most depressing part of all this is that I suspect that we will learn nothing from what has been happening. People have short memories and I can't imagine anyone expressing doubts of the wisdom of certain financial practices if it makes them or their company or, indeed, their country money.
China is not without it's own problems and a massive bubble is set to burst relatively soon but you are right when you mention the enormous debt problem in the States and Europe. Now that a good proportion of US treasuries are China owned but perhaps equally importantly Japan and the UK holding billions this makes things much more complicated and risky for everyone. Sheesh, global village eh?
One lesson we can all learn, however, is not to trust anyone with any views on a wide variety of issues that might have an impact large or small on your's or everybody's life. This goes for politicians, the media and perhaps worst of all the experts.
What with polar beargate in todays news (though not strangely enough the BBC) most people will never really realise the full impact of supposedly unimportant events but slavishly let others to think for them. Hence hackgate for example. Too much trust put in the hands of the great and the good to keep us safe actually made things far worse by the reliance on toothless paper tigers.
Of interest to locals today's piece on the eureferendum blog highlights how the great and the good decide who gets the truth. The raid on Dover harbour during WW2 is discussed and is quite an eye-opener. - Very often, Barry, it is part of the private sector that creates the problem of increased public spending, causing the Government to massively expand educational programmes and constantlly top up NHS expenditure, to pay out benefits to millions of people, and causing the councils to increase the capacity of council housing.
These parts of the private sector are acting irresponsibly, looking at their own immediate gains, but inflicting a much higer price on public spending. - Alexander - any business that depends on public spending is a part of the public sector, the term is 'secondary public sector' and they are responding to the requirements of the public sector.
Businesses do want well educated work force that should be taken as the norm but our education system is failing and that is not the fault of businesses. - Barry, I was referring to the kind of private sector that employs cheap labour from abroad and causes immigration to Britain!
- alex,immigration and cheap labour has nothing to do with it.its the lack of willingness of us brits to work where these immigrats work.untill the brits take the work the problem will continue,full stop.
- a lot more complicated than that brian, employers know they can pay low wages for immigrant workers then will not have to fork out anything for the extra schools, hosoitals, housing required.
alex is right here, the taxpayer picks up the tab. - howard,its a catch 22 situation,other wise known as swings and roudabouts.
- I read in the Telegraph earlier today a piece about David Cameron writing a letter to the Australian prime minister Julia Gillard to congratulate her on her carbon tax proposals which have so enraged the population as well as manufacturers and companies involved in mining as well as other key industries.
“Climate change is one of the most pressing threats we face and we need to take urgent action to reduce emissions and put economics on a more sustainable low carbon footing,”
Truly, we in the UK, are screwed. If you can afford it buy gold. - What Guido fails to mention are those rather inconvenient cases such as the Guildford four, the Birmingham six, Stephen Kiszko, the Bridgewater four, the M25 three, the Cardiff three etc. etc.
The list of miscarriages in this and other countries is long and will always be there regardless of innovatioins in technology and changes to court procedure or law.
Besides, state killing is barbaric in my view and bloodlust leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
I think Guido is losing the plot. - august is the silly season, he probably has not much to blog about while dave and company are busy paddling in the sea off of yarmouth with knotted hankies keeping the sun off.
- All this talk of hanging draws my mind to those who awarded the Thameslink rail project to Seimens rather than Bombardier. Still we hear nothing from the government about this important issue.
British jobs for British workers eh Cameron?
Re-balancing the economy?
Nah Dave the only thing you and your cronies are good at is saving the planet.
Keep calm and carry on boys and plunge us further into the abyss. - PHILIP;
Your correct, this govt hopes the issue will go away and be forgotten, but of course it wont,
this is just one of many issues stacking up against this cobbled together govt - Nah Keith there is a litany of issues the government care not for. The only and I mean the only and most important issue that this government care about is climate change.
Why else would they insist that those with money rake in 40 odd pence per kilowatt hour by installing useless solar panels while the price paid for the production of electricity using coal or gas is 10p. or thereabouts.
David Cameron's family do very well from this scam as does Nick Clegg's.
As I said before only a moron believes this guff that man is affecting the climate but let's face it we are surrounded by them.
Cameron and his cronies care not a fig for the country. They are riding the gravy train and the poor are paying for their extremely expensive ride.
- I will update the blog tonight or tomorrow morning. I have been a bit slack with this because of my continuing computer upgrade disrupting my work and leisure patterns. I am hoping to be back to normal tonight, apart from my backlog of work that is...
- The USA - from superpower to windpower in a week.
- I should add that I agree with every single point from 1 to 12. Yes there are many more to add but the task is so huge that I can't imagine any change. There is not the political will nor would we be allowed to change anything because either EU law prevents this or challenges brought in our courts from interested parties.
It's interesting to note that with the ratings agency S&P giving it's verdict on US credit status the BBC and other left wing outlets are conveniently quiet now in their concerted campaign against the tea party in America.
It's the tea party who have railed against high spending and environmental madness and have now been proved to be bang on the nail in this respect.
Anyone who still puts forward public spending largesse such as labour deserve the dunces hat and a long wait with their back to the class until they learn the big lesson - Lies, damned lies and statistics.
As with HMT and others, their powers of prognostication either failed them or they were looking the wrong way all the time, to have got us to where we are now.
If GO has confidence that his way forward is the only way forward can he discover the courage to put his plan before the Electorate and gain himself a Mandate?
What does he (and the Tories) have to lose? - Further to my blog above I have seen an interesting comment by George Osborne that suggests he agrees with me!!!
I quote (Telegraph) "This crisis provides an opportunity to make some difficult trade-offs in favour of growth that might get parked in the "too difficult" box in calmer times."
This suggests that he is in a stronger position to go ahead with measures being blocked by the LibDems. Good.
Tom - an election is not what the country needs, what it needs is strong action on the economy in the way I suggest. - Barry can you tell us exactly where growth will come from in the UK?
- As it always done from trade and businesses being allowed to prosper. To get to that stage we have to free up businesses from so many idiotic controls, restrictions and costs that they currently suffer and to incentivise risk takers and investors.
- So where does the firm Bombardier fit into the government's strategy? They have steadfastly refused to move on this issue and consigned hundreds to permanent unemployment till the day they die.
If this is the way they treat small, medium and large companies then there really is no hope. Their plan for the economy is therefore in tatters. A self inflicted wound no less.
They've pinned all their hopes on the green investment bank, an oxymoron invented for this scheme, and the only one's likely to use it are the corrupt bandwagon of gravy suckers and rent seekers allied to Dave and George.
No hope I'm afraid. It's truly terrifying. - Ah, is this not the mind-set of the looter?
"There is much wrong; it could be this, it could be that, but all I know is that what I see about me is not as I wish it...so I must tear it down and reclaim what is rightfully mine!"
It is good to see, Barry, that your Aunt Sally is alive and kicking. - No Tom - your relativism is part of the liberal mind-set that is the underlying cause of so much that is wrong with our society today and a root cause of the riots.
- Relativism? My mention of your Aunty must have hit home.
What of this relationship...
from Chaucer's Troilus and Criseyde:
"If gold rust, what shall iron do?" - I fail to spot any Aunt Sallys in Barry's argument. Quoting Chaucer does nothing to forward this debate.
Weird. - Puff & nonsense...AGAIN!
Why 'reform' and not 'cure'?
Do you not really mean, 'Take advantage of.'?
"A culture that glorifies violence, shows disrespect to authority, and says everything about rights but nothing about responsibilities."
And from this 'culture' what proportion of young persons were out on the rampage?
"...biggest error was with the Human Right Act. This has to be the worse piece of legislation ever pushed through Parliament. ..."
What legislation? Might you mean that one piece that made British Courts capable of hearing cases that were hitherto only to be heard in Strasbourg, under the ECHR, something that we British helped to draft in the first place?
Oh, those heady days of the early fifties. When we had the oddest idea that we had won the war against Fascism. Now, all that is omitted from the pontifications of Dave and his ilk, yet is implicit in all that they proffer, is that we British were wrong in the fifties and perhaps misguided in the thirties and the forties and that the answer is to govern Britain as the Nazis did Vichy France.
For, is not the the condemnation of a family for the transgressions of one of them, a form of collective punishment?
And finally...
Get over yourself with all this Lib-Dem angst. The country did not elect a Conservative Government. If you, dear Barry, or Dave himself don't like that the remedy is in your own hands. - We have to move forward to a society of responsibilities and duties. We need discipline, not money-wasting equality quangos.
- The Police as a Force did well, as they obey orders, and any orders to intervene in civil unrest against property must come from above, be it the top brass in the Police or the Government.
So the Police staff present on the streets who combatted the riots deserve full praise.
Let's not forget that it took several days after the riots started before any Government top-members actually started to say anything about the riots, and that Buckingham Palace remained totally silent throughout, not one word of reproval to the rioters, not one word to ask them to refrain!!!
An appearance on TV on the part of the royalty would have been the least that a believer in them would have expected!
Even Boris seems to have woken up only on the third day of the riots.
In these conditions, the Police officers and Constables found themselves wondering how to deal with major upheaval while top figures on the chess-board kept their silence.
- Hold on Alexander - why are you dragging the royals into this? its not as if war was declared and the nation needed a rallying cry.
I am not complaining either about the ordinary coppers but only about their leadership. I have been careful about that.
Dealing with the riots and disturbances was a police operational matter and it did not, or should not, have required any kind of political statement or interference.
It was only the ineffectual way the police initially responded to the criminality that meant politicians felt they had to get involved. The third day seems about right to me for politicians to speak out, once the ineffective police response became apparent and no doubt after some private conversations about that. - Barry, in this case it was severe civil unrest, which spread rapidly, so I can't disagree more with you.
- No |Alexander - you give it too much dignity by that description. It was nothing but criminality, opportunists thieving and vandalism.
- We have the police and it's chiefs at loggerheads with david and his govt.
This is probably the worst time to take on the police, and force through unpopular changes or reform.
is barryw's confrontation the best way forward? - This is all rather embarrassing really.
Did you know that the annual budget to provide a police force for England and Wales is in the region of £11 billion?
Did you also know that the official cost of the climate change act following a question in parliament, so wholeheartedly supported by this government and by David Cameron himself, stands at a minimum cost to the treasury in the region of £18 billion annually. That is not taking into account any new measures dreamed up by this current administration of which there are plenty.
When Mr. Cameron stands up there in front of everyone telling us all that there must be cuts to the police budget and has the temerity to ask us to believe that it will have no impact on their ability to do the job bear in mind how much of that money wasted on saving his planet compares with your safety on the street.
Remember that's £18 billion every single year for the next twenty or so years.
Keep 'em peeled. - i wondered how long it would be before you would bring the climate change issue into it philip.
valid point here though, we were told that cuts in local authority budgets would not impact on frontline services, so nobody will believe that about the police budget. - That is not quite right Howard, as I have said before the government was open about the fact that they and councils would have to withdraw quite rightly from a lot of stuff they used to do. Government does far too much, hence the small government/big society theme.
The government did say that cuts need not affect front-line services, it depend how councils and police forces decide they should apply the cuts. Remember we are getting a whole lot of bull from self-interested vested interests and we should not be taken in by whinging from them.
Keith - yes is the answer. The police chiefs should be more professional than they have been behaving and should remember that they do not call the tune on strategic matters, only on tactical and operational issues. - Yes Howard but the climate change subject, a pet subject of mine as you know, encapsulates everything that is wrong with politics today. I might well have chosen any other issue but climate change ticks every single box where the stupidity of those elected are shown to be lacking.
1. Unproven opinion reliant on special interest groups to persuade politicians to dole out millions to those who might profit.
2. immovable policies even after irrefutable evidence has shown that any particular party is wrong on the issue.
3. Enormous costs to us and the country in terms of how it will affect future prosperity.
4. Because the policies already enacted are so far gone a closing of ranks to shut down debate and present opponents of those policies as either mad or extreme.
5. Vast amounts of money supporting those policies at the expense of others WHATEVER THE COST.
So one could have chosen climate change and it's impact on the poor alongside any future growth prospects or one can choose virtually any other issue we face.
Witness the past week and the riots and general breakdown of law and order.
Intelligent beings were ignored or made to look extreme by drawing attention to stupid policies made by the last government and previous tory governments. They were proved to be right. Even now when David Starkey expresses and opinion on the subject the reaction was to point fingers and accuse him of thought crimes so that now that particular aspect of the argument cannot be debated. In fact in all likelyhood he will never set foot in a BBC studio ever again.
So climate change policies cannot be challenged even when presented with the figures which I pointed out earlier. If anyone were to suggest this on any news outlet as an opinion the debate would again be shut down there and then and twitter, facebook and the web in general would be full of useful idiots calling for resignation/apologies/hanging/deportation or whatever those fools deem the right punishment for even to suggest that £18 billion per annum is better spent on the toilet rather than maintaining an effective police force.
- Philip, the Earth does not have just open sky, but an atmosphere.
The atmosphere prevents a lot of things from entering the air from outer space, but alas, also prevents a lot of pollution from leaving the air.
Mess up the atmosphere, and you get atmospheric reactions. Really it's all based on chemistry.
Simples.
By saying a thousand times that pollution does not effect the atmosphere, you won't get rid of the pure truth, namely that it does.
- alex
i have to say that you have surpassed yourself here, i am completely bamboozled by your post.
philip
there is a thread on the david starkey issue on the members page, agreed it is all about the stifling of debate. - Howard,
Philip mentioned that 18 billion pounds a year is spent by the State on climate-change related projects.
I was trying to explain why the Government has put so much importance on preventing adverse man-made climate change, from a scientific point of view.
May-be the explanation that chemical processes take place in Earth's atmosphere, which is separated from outer space, could be more illuminating to you.
Wind, rain, hurricanes, tornados, penetrations of ultra-violet sunrays through ozone holes, are all atmosphere-related.
Chemical pollution interferes with the atmosphere. There is a border of chemical gases that separates the Earth's atmosphere from Space
.
In fact, the air in general is made up of 9 different gases. This means that the topic is related to chemistry, as well as biology. Nature depends on the air and the climatic conditions that are present within it.
My personal proposal is that, at this point, we consult a teacher in science or chemistry, to judge whether the Government is so wrong in being concerned (as I too am) about atmospheric alterations through pollution, and if my explanation in the last post is senseless, as you seem to imply.
Personally I do not consider my last post as being contrary to scientific teaching, and am fully convinced that the correlation between climate change and budget spending, which Philip so evidently refers to in the previous and many other posts, is sactioned not only by the Government (and the last Labour Government for that mater), but also by scientists and advisers with whom the Government has consulted.
I do not believe to be alone in this concern of mine regards the air which we breathe and the weather conditions, which are determined by the natural processes that take place in the air above our Planet's surface, intended as being separate from Space.
Nor do I consider myself alone in stating that chemical pollution adversely affects the air. As in my previous post, I underline the fact that man-made pollution does not simply leave the atmosphere and go out into Space, but remains in the air above the Earth's surface.
Therfore I have the right to express my view in relation to a topic that concerns me as much as it does every person on the Planet.
On a final note, as I try to figure out what is incomprehensible to you in my last post, yes, the highest regions of the atmosphere do prevent many small objects from entering Earth's ar, causing them to disintegrate.
Otherwise we would be pelted with small debris day and night. This same chenical layer of gases prevents chemical pollution from leaving the atmosphere and entering Space, hence it remains and alters Earth's climatic conditions.
This is in essence my intellectual explanation in response to Philip's views on climatic change and Government budget spending in relation to it, frequently expressed on Barry's Blog, and also to your assertion that I have surpassed myself regards a topic that concerns my future and that of many others.
Thank you!
- So the EU have plans to introduce a transaction tax. This will impact on our country especially hard if this tax is introduced.
Let's face it if this idea is not vetoed by Cameron then all bets are off - they will drive the final nail into the coffin of the coalition and indeed the conservative party which some might suggest isn't such a bad thing after all.
In my mind this would represent a measure that would require a referendum which David Cameron promised our country if any more power would likely be given to the EU.
Well let's see what the boy will do on this matter. If he does indeed agree to it (and by not opposing it he would certainly be agreeing to it) we can finally wave goodbye to our economic prospects forever.
He's big on the idea of destroying any manufacturing base and is quite willing to support the euro whatever the consequences so I suspect that he is perfectly willing to go along with this latest wheeze from Brussels. - BAZ;
You say yes, as to taking on the police, these people as you know are far more defenceless than say the miners were, the police are unable to withdraw there labour.
You can see so many police chiefs now coming saying that cameron on the one hand says we have a police force to be proud of, whilst on the other hand setting out for confrontation.
you can';t have it both ways, and the worst thing you could do is to take on the police, then decide against it and do one of camerons many U turns.
morale within in the police is sapped for so many reasons.
The other issue that maybe should be listerned to, is the chiefs telling us that a lot of work has gone on in communities to build relationships in some very hostile or difficult communities, and that maybe zero tolerance will only undo a lot of this work.
- Good old HG Wells and his Time Machine.
For this tale gives us an allegory for your view of the City and the rest of us, with it's Eloi and Morlocks.
That any monies raised in this way should go directly to Europe is perverse, I grant you, but the city-tail should not continue to wag the British-dog.
To be free of the EU would only be most welcome when we can be free of big-C Conservatives too. - Be better Tom if you stopped railing against the world as it is, like some idealistic student and accepted the realities of the world and the way it really works. Your way is a way to penury.
seen an interesting article on the Speccie website that shows just how out of touch the proponents of this in the EU are. They have not looked to see the impact of this proposal in real life and thought about the consequences.
Sweden introduced such a tax.... quote the article...
"""""Based on the example of the “pure” Tobin tax that was implemented in Sweden in the 1980s and a large number of studies looking at equity and foreign exchange markets, a clear relationship was revealed between increasing transaction costs and higher levels of volatility. Transaction volumes also decrease as business is driven to lower tax regimes. When Sweden introduced a levy of 0.5 per cent, 60 per cent of the 11 most actively traded Swedish shares and over 50 per cent of Swedish equities had moved to London by 1990. Naturally, this affected revenues. The tax raised only one thirtieth of the promised proceeds in Sweden. The UK Robin Hood Tax Campaign assumes that £20billion can be removed from the UK financial sector without causing major disruption, highlighting the campaign’s economic illiteracy.""""""""" - So...
A 'Tobin Tax' is a good thing when it's applied elsewhere, because it means more business for London?
The answer is simplicity itself. There should be Global implementation of such taxes...problem solved.
The world as it is Barry is a busted flush. Pardon me for railing against such a thing. - Tom, no - I am saying it is a bad idea and how short-sighted and idiotic the EU are being in suggesting it should be introduced.
The world's problems will not be solved by more big government and more taxation. The problems we have are because of high spending, high taxing, high borrowing governments.
If the EU agrees to this tax then jobs in the City will be lost as business goes to Tokyo and New York, tax revenues to HMRC will fall and we will have a lose-lose situation. The Swedish experience shows this.
If you think the whole world will adopt such a tax then you are mistaken. Many countries outside Europe do not see big government as the answer but the problem and therefore are being a lot wiser than us. - barryw,take your own advice dont panic,or in other words adapt or die so to speak.
- So t.rex - or is it perhaps Brian or Keith?
A very silly little comment that which adds nothing at all to the debate. Do you actually understand the issues, you don't seem to? - neither barry i.p. address does not fit.
- not me barry
- more than you think barry.
- barryw
i have no idea who this geezer is
nor would i use such words - tut tut kieth,how do you know its a geezer.
- T REX
Sadly you dont identify yourself
so have to assume
much better to say who you are
- kieth,have to meat up somtime for a coffee or hot chocolait.
- howard
if your aware who t rex is
cant you identfy them?
t rex
no idea whou are so would be impossible - kieth/barry,dont get to worried about it.and you will find out soon enough.
- no keith, i can only suggest that barry reviews his policy of letting non members post here.
i can only remember philip and tom(before he was a full member) contributing to the debate. - cant speak for barryw
no idea what
last post all about
or
who you are - intriging this a misstrious poster on a wind up.
- barry,all stock markets from around the world have sufferd today.franc,germany,the us,tokio.so what to do.as i see it its just not europe or the usa but global,the question is will it be a double dip ressesion, and the will the whole world go broke.
- well i for one wont comment further to t rex posting
unless he/she identifies themselves - Barry, I still hold to your assertion that we will leave the EU. It seems to be a general view that the majority of people in Britain want us to leave.
Of the minority who do not say that we must quit the EU, many are undecided or have no personal view, meaning that those who specifically want Britain to remain in the EU are most certainly a minority that gets nowhere near 50, 40 or even 30%.
Yes, it is ridiculous that the City is about to be taxed bu the EU, and hopefully this will be one more reason for us to leave that sick organization.
The sooner, the better! - Brian - yes they did, but the problem started early in response to the EU Tobin Tax proposals hitting banks particularly hard.
Figures announced by the USA later in the day sent the markets plunging further worldwide. There were earlier rumours that the figures would be bad and they did not disappoint.
What happened proves the point many made about this idiotic proposal and how counter productive it is. - alexander
im not so sure on your findings
or how factual they may be
- kieth,you are such a spoilsport.
- [trex? Is that not cooking fat? I wonder what's frying tonight? :)]
Is there a more egregious sector of the 'something-for-nothing' community than those who sit back and let their money make money?
We all have, from time to time, sat back and enjoyed the fruits of suffering:
From the need to see the time in the dark. With it's devastating consequences for those employed to paint the clock parts with Radium. To our need for coal and the joy of imports. The inherent dangers of their procurement lost to most of us who played no part in it, but no less real.
Oh, how the British Empire flourished...we knew not how, we did not care, we could do nothing about it anyway.
The theme throughout the above is one of 'employment' every bit as much as commerce and profit. Our world was and is an imperfect one.
For most people the dangers of their employment had to be borne , the pressure from the employers didn't help, but a man had to eat. Had to feed, clothe and house his family.
From Slavery to wage slavery, our world improved. From 'bad' slavers who had assets to coddle to 'good' employers who could hire and fire as the need arose and the employees;men, women and children, shifted from asset to liability upon a whim.
So much for the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries and there is very little worthwhile to add about the assertiveness of the working classes in the twentieth century. For nowadays, money takes care of money.
The wealth has been created, now all there is left to do is play around with it. And with the whole world to play in and new reservoirs of want to tap there is precious little of the 'asset' about any save the few.
Here in Britain. Gone is the need to make things and fast on the heels of that is our ability to make things...except money.(?)
To my mind [and this is all to my mind] the thirst to make money and the only way left to us to make money (by making it up) led us to our present sorry pass.
What has been done to rectify this is to imagine that the imagined money will be paid off by the yet unborn. That we must not spend as a country and we must not tax.
"The retail sector will save us."
If only such customers as are left wish to turn their real money into exported money, through the purchase of stuffs we here have long since ceased to make, or ceased to make within certain 'judgement-based' requirements.
In short what we have, all that we have we must (ex)spend to the benefit of economies far from our shores.
It's not all bad (well yes it is, for the many) as those with money shall get even more money.
All they have to do is care even less about people.
We must get Britain back to work, back to making things, back to making things better for each other. Not attending only "to our own sort" by enriching and not taxing the likes of Warren Buffet against their own will or better judgement.
We are being held back by our insistence on being run as a Country by these middle-men who know no more than how to have their money do the work for them and do very nicely out of doing everybody else down.
This is where Dave and Barry have it all wrong.
- Keith, the following is from Wikipedia regards an official Yougov poll last year:
"According to a Yougov poll in Britain published in September 2010, 47% would vote for Britain to leave the European Union and 33% would vote for Britain to remain a member of the European Union"
As you can see, mate, 33% of people in Britain, at that time, would have voted to stay in the EU.
Things have changed since then, and the figure is now likely to be half of that, possibly not even that!
Those who now would vote to leave the EU is probably much higher than 47%.
- As from August 2011, the Daily Express is launching a new campaign to gather signatures for Britain to leave the EU.
You can sign online, just go to Daily Express campaign to leave EU.
A recent law obliges Parliament to take into account a petition that has at least 100,000 signatures and to discuss it in Parliament. - alex,there are two hopes of coming out of the eu,no hope and bob hope.and one of them is dead.
- ...As I understand this new law it only gets the petition discussed by some committee of back-benchers. They then may decide to put it up for discussion.
- That might be, Tom, but a Yougov poll is practically a State-sponsored poll, and my guess is, that one of the three mainstream parties will come up with the issue to leave the EU, namely the Tories.
They will be guaranteed a victory at the General Election, will get in without the LibDems, and leave Labour way behind.
It must be the trump-card of the Tories, I'm pretty sure of this! - you sound very optimistic alex.
i think that optimism is misplaced, the leadership of the government is committed to our continuing membership of the european union.
if it ever came to a commons debate and vote(very unlikely) there would not be a majority in favour of leaving. - The clue, Howard, is in Barry's words, he syas that the majority of Conservatives are now in favour of leaving the EU. And also: give the EU enough rope, and it will hang itself.
- Alex is correct about the survey.
Long term we have no future in the EU and it will be the Conservatives that get us out. Strange Howard - sometimes you dig deep under what someone says and at other times just take things at face value. Cameron's main concern is not to appear or be painted as extreme and he is working to keep the LDs on board.
I am not as optimistic as Alex about timing though, I think it will take a bit longer than that. Strange to suggest that YouGov is a 'State-sponsored poll', no. - i was told back in 1997 by an 'A' level student that p.f.i. was a disaster for future generations.
she was just doing a project on it, now paying for it. - Read the link to the Speccie Howard it details David Davies horror when Geoffrey Robinson let slip to him over dinner how Labour planned to misuse the scheme. That was in 1997 a few months before Labour were elected. You A level student was right if he/she anticipated such crazy abuse/
The PFI was conceived for limited use for capital projects. That would never have been a problem if done so sensibly.
It was the way Labour warped it and contrived to use it in a much bigger way and to cover revenue spending that is the real problem. - BARRYW
If your honest you would go along with the view that NO political is looking to come out of the EU
certainly our leadersless govt are making no proposals to do so - another millstone around the torys neck.may the eu live long and prosper.
- Keith - look at the way its going. We will get out of it and the Conservatives will do it, it is just a matter of time.
- i m trying to work out whether you said that with a straight face or using irony barry.
the earliest that the blues could get an overall majority would be nearly 4 years hence, not likely to be overwhelming though.
probably another 5 years before there reached a stage where enough anti european members could force a vote or referendum on leaving.
my prediction stays the same as it has alway been, that the monolith will have fallen well before then and just turned into the trading bloc that it was originally intended to be. - If your prediction be correct, Howard, and it may well be so, then it would be in the interest of the Tories to have a vote on EU membership now, because they would get the political credit for it, and probably a secure majority in Parliament at the next General Election, rather than wait for the monolith to fall apart while still hanging on like a limpet.
- there could be a red swing at the next genral election,followed by a push to full intgration into the eu,and evan a change of currency to keep us out of deep poo.
- ALEXANDER;
In reality the tories and all other major parties have no proposals to leave the EU - Keith, according to an Angus Reid poll reported on the Conservative home blogs, 66% of these who voted the Conservatives in May 2010 want out of the EU, 16% want to remain in.
When you say "the major parties" you don't seem to give much weight to the wishes of the members and supporters/voters in general, but only to the official party policies.
The name: Conservatives, means the party, and more in general, those who voted for the party.
Hence my view, that the vast majority of Tory voters want us to quit the monolith. - I forgot to add, that the poll mentioned below is from July 2011, very recent.
It states that support in general in Britain (not just Tories), for staying in the EU sank by 13% in 2010, and by a further 25% in 2011.
Thus us a rout, Keith, a total thrashing of EU support. - alex,wot sause has this info come from,hienz or hp.please do tell,if only to give it some creadabilaty.
- Brian, the sources are stated in my post(s).
Yougov and Angus Reid are the two most notable poll-sources one usually goes by when quoting polls.
- alexander;
i understand your comments but make the following view;
1; none of the major parties(labour or tory) is making any moves to come out of the E. U.
so as barryw says the polls can say what you want them to, just phrase the question correctly to get the right answer you want.
im neither a supporter of being in or out of the E.U but would worry if we threw all our toys out of the pram and became isolated.
no one has convinced me that this wouldnt happen, only been given political this is how it is in there opinion nowt to back it up.
i share the view that the E.U is wasteful and costly, but thats not a reason to pull out, do like even cameron is doing and challenge decisions being made, and also get the best for the UK
Having said that this is another of camerons tough talks with no action, he talks the talk, but in reality is making no indication a conservative govt would pull out, or even working towards it.
so to me until he does(if he lasts that long) then its all pie in the sky. - Keith, the point I was making, is that the question asked in the 2 mentioned polls is: should Britain be in the EU or out?
That leaves no scope for interpreting the two questions in different ways so as to obtain a manipulated answer!
Your views on the EU are welcome, however, the democratic will of the People is that which must count on this issue.
The majority of people in Britain who want out of the EU vote Conservative, so it is a matter of time before we leave the EU.
It's worth making a projection into the future to realise the path we are taking and where it will lead.
The economic collapse of the EU is a fact that is taking place with each day that passes, and the Tory supporters are overwhelmingly in favour of marching in the right direction.
So my prediction is that Labour will lose massively at the next General Election, in fact so dismally, that they will probably lose their deposit nationwide, from Skara Brae in the Orkney Islands to Dover in the South East.
This is why I ceased long ago any campaigning against the Tory Party, as it would have meant campaigning against the future of our Country.
- If you are for geting out of the EU THERE IS ONLY ONE PARTY FOR YOU and it is UKIP.We are out and around the disrict again with new leaflets, fee DVDs so when you see us please stop and have a chat,we will be in the Town Centres soon and the Parishs. As the saying goes Onward and upwards.
- Vic - the only thing a vote for UKIP has ever achieved in a UK Parliamentary election is to let in Labour and LibDem candidates and in so doing weaken the Eurosceptic right in Parliament.
How on earth anyone can think that letting in more LibDems Eurofanatic MPs by voting UKIP helps us get out of the EU is mind boggling. - That is not true Barry and you know it. UKIP is the only party that has said open right from day 1 that the UK should not have gone into the EU and still is the only party saying the UK must get out and get out now.Members of other partys are saying this also now,but their partys are all still saying that the UK must stay in. So I say to the members of other partys please the only way we are going to save the UK and all the history that goes with it,Is by joining up with us at UKIP to keep up the fight to come out of the EU.
- Vic - please try the application of common sense. Of course what I said is true. Your Party itself claims that the Conservatives were 20 seats down due to UKIP votes. Who gained from that, the LibDems who are the most pro-EU of all Parties.
Take a reality check Vic - by the way, UKIP did not say we should not join the EU from day 1, they did not exist in 1973 when we joined the EEC, which was a very different beast to the EU. - Sorry if I did not make myself clear ,From day 1 of UKIP, not going into the EEC.Yes we are hiting Libdems so are all the main partys,that is why UKIP if not already it soon will be the no3 party of the UK.
Today we started a new campaign in Dover to get more members we have new leaflets etc going out to the public and we are going to be seen alot more then we have in the past. - Vic - do you really not understand what I am saying or just ignoring the electoral facts because they do not accord with your view of the world?
- ALEXANDER;
You mention in your long drawn out reply that labour would lose the Dover seat, not surewhen you wake up but this has already hapened, thus we now have this cobbled together govt.
it's my view that because politics is in such a mess at all levels we will again end up with no overall control.
it wont be labour losing that many seats, everyones fear is that the likely outcome is the lib dems will be totaly destroyed
only having a handful of mp's elected(if there lucky)
we are no nearer now to the tories getting the uk out of eu and we need to be honest about that - in out,in out,are playing the hocky cocky here.what ever goverment is in,wheather red,blue green yellow they cant/wont make up there mind.
- Barry it is all the U-Turns you lot keep making it is hard to keep up.
- Vic has a point you know. Virtually every single policy brought forward by Dave has then been followed by a dramatic volte face. It's all rather embarrassing really.
Now I'm all for re-examining our relationship with the EU but one has to be very careful what you wish for.
For those that would like us to leave this failed state they have to ask themselves whether or not they can really trust the UK in the hands of the Conservatives or for that matter the new labour party.
I must say that I would feel distinctly uneasy at this prospect - at least at the moment we sail in a ship without a rudder but to gamble on removing the engine, the sails and the keel most people might feel alot safer in the nearest lifeboat. - phlip
sorry mate they sold the life boat to - Keith, I mentioned that at the next General Election Labour might lose their deposit nationwide!
I didn't write that there is a Labour MP in Dover now, I know full well that Mr. Elphicke Tory MP Dover and Deal won the last G E giving Vic a sound thrashing!
If Labour MPs get less than 5% of the votes at the coming General Election, they'll each lose their deposit. This is what I am hoping for.
Personal view, but gladly shared! - The last line should read: if Labour candidates..
- rather fanciful alex, it is practically impossible for either of the main parties to lose all their deposits.
- alexander;
you did mention dover in your reply but no worries;
your correct on ukip making no real headway in dover
but your assumption on the labour party is wide of the mark
as one that is likely not to be voting at the next general election unless things change,
i can see it staying no overall control
people have lost faith in politicians and all will lose out by it
the lib dems could have gained greatly by the last general election but people have seen through clegg
camerons honeymoon period has come to an end and now his own party dont believe hes number 1 for the job prefering boris
- For those poor deluded fools thinking that Dave had a plan to pull us out of this recession and set us on the road to recovery I'll remind you (once again for those not paying attention) of part of his master plan. It involves the greening of our economy.
However........
"Figures from Utilyx, the energy consultants and traders, forecast a 58pc rise in the cost of power by 2020, largely driven by the impending avalanche of green taxes due to come into force over the next 10 years.
The consultants estimate that 18pc of the current electricity price relates to climate change policies—or £15 per megawatt-hour out of a £82 per megawatt-hour average.
However, green taxes and new infrastructure costs will constitute 38pc of the charges, or £50 per megawatt-hour out of £130 per mega-watt hour, by 2020."
That's 38% folks.
Remember that at the voting booth. - Hmmmn, no reply to my last point. It appears that most people are happy being scammed and quite willing to spend their hard earned cash on this utter lunacy.
Still when old folk die in their beds this winter, if of course it's a harsh one like last winter, we shall have Dave and his friends blaming the last government as they normally do when things don't quite go their way.
It's funny all this talk about the tories and the eu and spending cuts and tuition fees and inflation and isn't life terrible what with the riots and whaaaarrr it's really awful and yet this is the unspoken truth to the tories.
And as far as this bunch of, err, "rebels", the new intake of young thrusting young Turks who will fight for us against the mighty eu - in a word children.
As for Prite Patel, well what an absolute no-hoper. A typical new breed tory. This is what she said:
"Climate change is one of the biggest challenges our planet has faced. Without cutting the carbon emissions released when we burn oil, coal and gas, scientists warn that temperatures will dramatically increase by up to six degrees Celsius by the end of the century."
An absolute loser. The tory party is sunk.
- Philip, there might be a plausible explanation to your previous post, about the cost of green (renewable) energy:
Fossile energy is highly taxed, ie petrol and gas. So, if we are gradually reducing the use of these inquinative energy sources and replacing them with wind/water/solar energy, quite obviously there will be a decrease in tax going into the treasury.
It is reasonable to suggest that the Treasury needs to replace this missing tax with another form of income.
- philip
this is just one of the many issues/u turns that as you say will sink the tories - Keith, I can't see a u-turn by Gov. on the issue of confronting man-made climate change.
It's one challenge where all the main-stream parties agree, and several governments around the world have also made it a top-priority issue.
One day we will have electro-buses in Dover
- Only an idiot would buy and electric vehicle. David Cameron doesn't but he's the exception that proves the rule.
- Philip, the future of public transport is in electric traction.
We can't become fossilised in petrol engines and so we have to look to the future.
No modern party could possibly make headway without a sincere policy on carbon emission reduction.
Reduction of carbon emissions is part of international obligations that we have signed, and our Country is in the forefront on this issue worldwide.
There is no way we will turn back, and the fact that DHB is obliged to include a rail-link in any future T2 is a local example proving that the Government takes this policy seriously.
You won't find any mainstream party which does not adhere to the policy of carbon emission reduction.
All the fulminations in the world won't change this! - the libyan situation looks like it has disaster written all over it.
there has been a lot of support for gaddafi and the rebels are a hotch potch of diffrent groups that have raped and looted there way to the capital.
the fact there is so much oil means even more bitter infighting from people that want to get their hands on it.
yes, diplomacy has to be very tactful here. - Point of clarity on T2.
DHB are required to consider the possible options ONLY for a rail interface. High level cursory options have been considered and not taken forward.
There is no obligation to provide any such link. That way lip service is paid without the probability of any such rail link being provided.
Theorizing on this is pointless, under current plans or any published options considered by DHB (or others) no actual provision is made. Neither is any such provision made in Network Rails Route Utilisation Strategy (RUS) for this section of railway.
It's nice to dream though. - I think that you are being over-pessimistic Howard. The Sky News reports seem to suggest there may be an orderly transition started but, of course, many a slip!!
- well ghadaffi often makes me wonder the UK is involved in so many diplomatic wars abroad, often just to protect the oil rather than the stories pushed out that its to protect democracy etc.
how many other countries can we continue to interfere in, at big big financial costs to the UK?
and why dont we take the same approach with aall countries
we send armies into some countries to protect its residents,
(take china for example, and theres many more) we talk tough, sometimes, but dont send armies in ththe real reason we get in there.
and why we dont get involved in other countries who are just as bad
just a thought
is it time to take stock and the big big costs of all these ventures, and be truthful about - From a strategic point of view, the question is, where have all the contingents of Libyan soldiers moved to who were based in or around so many towns in western Libya and in Tripoli?
There are areas, including one large city and several towns, where the Colonel's soldiers are firmly garrisoned.
As for the rebels, it's anyone's guess what they will do next, because now they will start defining themselves in political factions, and without a general election, they have no electoral authority.
In fact they were not voted in, and if there were an election, it would remain to be seen if a party with sympathy towards Colonel Gedaffi would be allowed to participate, or if the rebels would just turn round and say they can't take part.
But to date they do not control all of Libya.
- Keith - we are all aware of the lies told by Blair over Iraq.
So what if it is over oil. It is all about our national interests and we need secure oil supplies and there is nothing wrong with that.
Or would you prefer to deepen the economic crisis and have tens of thousand more out of work because we had problems over the supply of a vital fuel. - Barry, Colonel Geddafi has been telling the Libyan people for the last 6 months the same what you explained here, that it is all over oil.
- I don't think that it actually is but if it is then good, we must look after our national interests.
- BARRYW;
My question was, how many countries do we go into (in your words to protect our interests)but in camerons outlook its more about protecting the people of that country.
if cameron is correct then why dont we go into other countries that do things just as bad as our mate in libya did)
also if its as you say barry about oil then surely we should be sending troops to russia and the likes, who also have threatened our oil supply - Don't be silly Keith. You do what you can and what you have to do.
- nothing silly about it
looks like double standards to me - Interesting that Libya had invested about 140-170 billion dollars in assets around the world, which currently is frozen.
May-be NATO was after this money? - Not double standards, just real life. Alexander - there is a big difference between freezing assets and stealing them. It was a sensible thing to do, the assets will now be available to the new government for rebuilding Libya instead of boosting our enemy.
- Why rail against weighing the pig in order to fatten it only to hail any proposal to fiddle with the scale used?
I was taught how to write a business letter, but nowadays few if any of the recipients of one would know what they were looking at. Why should they? We are now firmly in the electronic age and increasingly operate in a near paperless environment.
Why identify problems in this day and age that are of 30 years vintage. Has there not been a Conservative Government at all over that time?
Why do we insist on using an educational model that has never yielded a satisfactory outcome?
Why is it that those who knock on about life's lessons are the very ones who never learn and who continue to promote and re-promote outmoded and failed policies. When, if ever, are you to wake up and smell the coffee. You are a failure, your policies are failures. The one true area of success in any of this is that continued nonsense from Conservatives lead again and again to failure. Garbage-in-garbage-out. You have your cake and you may eat it, time and again. Conservative thinking is an oxymoron, with less and less 'oxy'.
Let us face it Barry. If only school leavers could be made to pledge themselves to the Conservative Party...they would all pass with flying colours and head off straight to the boardrooms of Britain.
That's what's really wrong with the school leavers of today, with their low grade Media Studies, they've sussed you out.
Conservatism is pure BS; Bollocks, from start to finish.
Have a nice day. - i would agree with tom over the business letter, what is gramatically acceptable seems to have changed.
however that only seems to apply in the u.k. we live in a global society where business is done in the english language with people from all over the world.
they will have learned the correct way and would be flummoxed when they get an e mail full of text speak. - Yes, Howard. The ability to express oneself clearly and concisely and to understand that 'communication' turns more upon what is understood by the recipient than the smugness of the delivery derived from this qualification or that or by position.
It must be easier to come by these traits through 'Media Studies' than through Mathematics or Science, just the same.
Education in the UK has suffered and suffers, as does the NHS, from being a Political football. Both these areas accomplish great things on the cheap. Barry's drive to have tax payers money rescue his beloved private sector says more about the sorry state of business and the calibre of businessman in the UK today than any socialist rhetoric ever could.
Business and Banking seem incapable of growth, or at least the merest attempt to grow, unless first they be guaranteed reward for failure, reward for mediocrity and indemnification against loss and the near abolition of taxes, labour laws and health & safety regulation.
Those on the right in politics today must have gone through childhood rooting for Prince John in their reading of the Robin Hood story and as for the employment and business model of Fagin...The least said on that the better. - Tom and Howard - you are wrong on many fronts including the business letter.
I do them regularly and completing reports is an essential part of what I do. They have to be grammatical and properly set out, ideas have to be marshalled and expressed correctly in a manner that can be understood by the layman. These skills are simply not being communicated to school leavers.
Why do businesses complain about the lack of that basic skill, among others if it is not needed. Your case does not stand up to scrutiny.
Interesting to see you defending low educational standards. That though is what your socialism is all about though Tom, dumbing down everything to the lowest common denominator. - I have no Socialism Barry. I am sure we covered this years ago. I know that you Blues and those saddo Reds are one and the same under the skin.
Scrutiny is the last thing on your mind Barry, that is clearly why you mention it so often.
You talk as if each school leaver should be as adept as you say you are. What is that all about?
Is it not true that each child who misses out on an A* is likely to be as good as those who make that grade, all things being equal?
After all when no Political Party wins overall control at an election that does not make them for ever unelectable, does it?
An A* grade is just the same as FPTP, if you miss your time may yet come.
Why all this insistence on conformity in the young? What sort of tertiary education wishes only to choose from such a tawdry tranche?
Where is the education that has made Britain a by-word for excellence?
It sounds more like training that education.
Can it be that Conservative thought has it that this IS the best of all possible worlds?
What of those who, on the day, fall short of the * grade?
Not that any of this will call a halt to my putting you right, but this page is just bunting for a parade that, though long in the planning, will never take place. You are a soloist on the air-guitar that is the failed model of both governance and democracy that this OUR country has simply outlived.
The least objectionable aspect of all you say and struggle not to say is the continued BW corporate puff.
You rather betray yourself and all that you purport to support by your broad-brush Conservatism and your narrow self interest.
Wake up, Barry. And smell the oh so Late. Before it is the too, too late.
I have just re read this and find myself a little impressed by what I do. Thank you Barry, the world shall remember you. :) - TOM/HOWARD
You make some valuable points, not blinkered but trying to move away from politics and find ways of improvement.
boy barryw do we know how much you hate sport lol
i still cant forget the day in the oddfellows club when as technical services you wanted to put up football fees and told all ythose sporting persons present how much you hated sport lol
but those days i even recall the chamber was very lively with a lot of characters from all sides (sadly dont have many these days) and used to go for a beer after meetings all parties together.
sorry im getting away from the subject. lol
on failure its very difficult to deal with, success is of course that much easier.
failure should be seen as not that your worthless, but one of encouragement and support to achieve
- one idea to consider is scraping gses alltogether and replacing it with a new system.
the ideal course would be starting at year 7 [11 year olds] with a yearly exam in the basics,maths, english and one other subject.untill the age of 16,to be followed by a 5 year aprenticeship in there chosen carear.this would save the tax payer a kings ransom. - Socialism has never in theory been about levelling down in education in fact aspirationally it has always been about the opposite and giving those least able, for whatever reasons, a leg up. Sadly successive generations of teachers turned politicians have cocked up those aspirations totally. On the other hand the rights view of education has always been about the maintenance of an elite and the delivery of just enough education to make the rest productive. The habit of politicians to pull the curriculum around to suit their short-termist (get me re-elected) mentality has blighted at least 2 generations of school leavers and done untold damage to British society.
Enough of the bashing - realistically what we need to do is:
Concentrate on the basics at Primary level - ensuring that all 11 year olds can read and write and are numerate.
Give 11-16 year olds a decent broad based curriculum that will teach them the basics of education and learning and expose them to a wide range of subjects and ideas
We then need to return to the idea that only the most academically able take "A" levels and then offer anyone else that wishes to continue education after 16 access to decent vocationally oriented examinable course at local colleges of further education.
As for Tertiary education - bring back Polytechnics and ONDs, HNDs and BTECs - i.e. practically based vocational qualifications that are of real value to employers
We also need to find a way to encourage entrepreneurs etc to create new hi-tech manufacturing in this country and also incentivise more traditional crafts to create apprenticeships. - Ross - I cannot fault your comments after 'realistically what we need to do'
I do, however have to disagree with you totally in what you say the 'rights' view of education is.
Speaking 'from the right' I recognise that we need an education system that inspires and unleashes the talent in everybody. That does not mean that everybody should be put through the same educational meat grinder, hence the need for selection and educational diversity.
Your comments on socialism are interesting. Strangely I do not think that there is often any difference between the outcomes sought by the left and right. What is very different are the means adopted to achieve these objectives. Levelling down is the result of the socialist way, perhaps an unintended result, but one inevitable from the overly simplistic socialist approach. - Barry - I guessed you would disagree - but I can only express a view from my own life experience etc.
As for equality...
We should all be offered the following
Equal treatment before and access to the law irrespective of our background and financial means
Equality of access to quality education
Equality of treatment by all organs of the state irrespective of race, colour and creed
Equality of access to the best medical provision the state can offer irrespective of where we live
Equality of access to housing that is fit for human habitation
Sadly this is patently isn't true in today's UK - we can all recite the examples
Yet again I believe that you misrepresent the ideals and theory of socialism and social democracy in your desire to create not only a bogeyman but to bolster your arguments for the policies of the right. The policies of the right, like those of the left, often seek similar outcomes but the methods of implementation too often lead to a diminution of equality, access and freedoms for those towards the bottom of the food chain; surely an unintended outcome? - Ross, note that I agreed with a lot of what you said but picked up on just part of it. You need only look at the impact of actual policies to see the difference in methods and outcomes between right and left wing methodology. Some examples.
Take taxes. In the 70's the left's idea of redistribution meant high taxes for the rich. The outcome as we all know was less revenue for government to spend on the less well off along with an impact on economic growth that reduced the overall size of the wealth 'pot'. In the 80's we found that lower taxes both increased tax revenues and the size of the pot from which they are derived. You yourself argued in a similar vein on this not so long ago.
That is a clear example of where the left's theory of wealth re-distribution through high taxation clearly disadvantaged the less well off (fewer jobs being created and low tax revenues).
We have also seen how social mobility has suffered as a result of getting rid of the grammar schools. That is well documented.
I am quite sure that if the scales were lifted from people's eyes they will see what a poor deal State medicine is as well.
I agree with some but not all of your 'equalities'. Define 'equality of access to housing fit for habitation'. Now we don't want people living in squallor but often such squallor can be created by them. While I applaud the sentiment this, perhaps, shows one of the problems with 'equalities'.
I agree with equality of access to medical provision but see no reason at all why it has to be provided by the State. The NHS shortcomings are all too apparent to those who do not subscribe to the NHS mythology. - barry,of cource everyone is equal,money or title is only words on paper.
- i have to admire your bravery mr trex, barry will be on your case very shortly.
- mr mcsweeny,i have no worrys about a paper dragon.
- Barry - true you did agree with some of my points and hats off to you for that
- ROSS
Have to say i agree with your earlier post - mr. samson,you are a man of very few words,can you tell us more in what you agree or disagree with.
- keith a man of few words?
that did make me smile, he is representing the u.k. in the 10,000 metres talk at next years london olympics. - well that sounds like a marathon.or should i say snickers.
- [The French Windows to the rear of the stage are thrown open. In walks a Gay-Blade attired in true 'Bunberry' beauty. He is holding a set of Scales, welded firmly biased off-centre...]
Mr. A :(the aforementioned G-B. No relation)...speaks
"Anyone for tennis?"
[he holds the scales aloft in front of him)...speaks
"Plainly, the right are superior, see how the pan lies, the right uppermost, jolly good what?"
Audience:
"Plainly, it is so. For the Right pan is weighed down by the strength of it's argument!"
.........................................................................................................................
What a relief it is, not to be discussing the usual Political footballs, but to be discussing the Political Tennis-ball of Equality.
"I am upper class. I made all the correct choices; where to be born and to whom! Therefore I look down, I see nothing, but why go against nature?"
"I am middle class. I got the first few choices wrong, but no matter what. I shall contrive to have it that the choices I make from here on in will be the correct ones. The Upper Classes need to see something when they look down. That will be me, I look up to them. Part of why I look up to the UC I must admit is because I can smell that which I staunchly shun. So it could be said that I do look down on 'them', by not so doing. Got that?"
"I am lower class. I know my place, the sign posts are clear. My need for something to look down upon is catered for too, just as long as I look up to them and steal the logic of the MC to know there is something below me on which I can look down upon. We are in agreement, we need foreigners."
Are we all Equal?
In life there is ONE truth.
Life will end.
This is clearly a generalisation.
Less of a generalisation, "Cogito ergo sum." (I think therefore I am.)
Plainly, when death comes to an individual, that person's world comes to an end. All the trees and rocks and the cosmos too.
We each, as living thinking beings, create this, our collective world. We therefore MUST accord all others the self same regard as we would wish for ourselves.
Yes. We are ALL equal.
- a tad too intellectual for me tom, i will wait for someone clever to explain it all to me.
failing that barry will give his input. - t rex whover you are
theres no point making long posts if i agree what is being posted
so as i said i agree with ross's comments - We are all equal in the eye of the law, Barry.
However, we do not all have the same duties. What is important, is that we live up to our assigned duties. In this respect we are all equal. - all equal in the eyes of the law?
sadly i wish this was the case alexander but look to court cases and how differing people are dealt with and you will find this not to be the case - mr.samsom,it would be nice if you explaind your reason for agreeing.
- Barry you say at the end of you piece:
"We are not equal where our life choices have consequences. No amount of ill-considered government meddling or pc wooly headedness can change that."
Well if that is the case why on Earth would somebody consider voting for the Conservative party again? Surely they can best be described as labour-lite. They have no vision, they care not for whatever ill-conceived policies have on the wider population and they take pc wooly headedness to new levels. They constrain themselves by their own parochial mindset which is decades behind the times, unable to cope with the new paradigm which requires guile, cunning and a certain cool headed sensibility which nobody in the front bench appears to possess.
I'm sorry but when you talk about fecklessness you might aim your ire towards those in government now. My giddy Aunt I'd feel safer in the hands of the green party than this lot and that is saying something. - Philip - I really must thank you. By your regular valued contributions you demonstrate how moderate and balanced in my views I really am.
- barryw
i have now had time to stop laughing over your last post
- That's the trouble with the tories today. Their policies are just that - moderate and balanced but lacking any vision to take this country forward. So if you like your politics magnolia in colour, tasting of complan and devoid of any vibrancy then the party to vote for is indeed the conservative or for that matter the libs or new labour.
So far I see no grand vision to give people some sort of hope for the future merely bland meaningless policy statements which are withdrawn once interested lobby groups complain.
So I'm happy for anyone who disapproves of any serious criticisms to close their net curtains and retreat to the party approved line if it makes them feel safe but it's not a world I care for - political policy written up by backroom interns. - a tad unfair philip as barry has pointed out many times it is a coalition government.
having said that i did start a thread on the main forum about " the tail wagging the dog" which is clearly the case.
any leader of the main party in a coalition would have stamped their authority by now, dave comes across as an appeaser that doesn't really know what he wants.
the rest of us will foot the bill for his environmental ambitions, most of which are pointless because all the large emissions are coming from countries like india and china, soon brazil and the rest of latin america.
we can be sure that their governments will put their peoples interests first. - If the eurozone broke up, Barry, it would be a blow to the EU elite, the euro being one of the paving stones to a great European state.
If the euro was abolished in any one eurozone country, cries to leave the EU would rise all over Europe.
As for a second dip recession in Britain, Barry, we already have this.
As for Italy, the country is breaking up, one municipality has declared independence and is printing its own currency. It now defines itself a principality, and the local currency, the fiorito, has become legal tender in the shops.
They have also supplied themselves with a new coat of arms.
With Italy beginning to break up, and the euro being replaced with new currency by a local principality, the writing is on the wall, Barry! - Alexander Im not familiar with the story about an independent state in Italy, but I should think its the most unlikely thing in the world that Italy would break up.
You have to remember some of this is silly season stuff, somewhere in Cornwall if Im remembering rightly declared its own independence with its own currency there last year, but it was little more than a marketing ploy, they didnt break away from the UK, not at all. Smaller places/nations nowadays anyway would find it nigh impossible to survive, thats why you have great groupings together, like the EU for example.
Wasnt there a movie one time where Pimlico in London declared independence, it was a comedy! If you notice now its the great bulky nations, the larger the better that are seeming to flourish..India, China, Brazil...and no doubt both the US and the EU will recover. - PaulB, you suggest the independence move of an Italian municipality may be a move to attract attention rather than actually become independent, however, the reasons behind it are quite important:
The town does not accept the austerity measures introduced by Rome that would see its council being sacked and its status of municipality taken away.
Many small Italian towns are facing the same axing measures, and the move to merge them with larger towns is very unpopular in Italy, where the local identity of towns is considered no less important than the national identity.
The mayor of Filettino says that the town supplies Rome with an enormous quantity of fresh water, in return for no revenue, and that the people there (in Filettino) are "dying of hunger", the meaning presumably being that they are quite poor.
People in small towns in Italy, where there are less than 1000-2000 inhabitants, tend to move away to the cities, owing to lack of employment.
The mayor is also to hold a meeting of representatives of all small towns in Italy who have the same problems and face being merged with neighbouring municipalities.
The level of discontent owing to economic austerity, and the consequences in local administration changes due to the economic disaster that Italy is in, seem to tell a different story than a mere comedy. - there has been a movement for seperation in italy for a long time. the "northern league" see the money earned in places like milan and turin being frittered away in rome, whilst the economic input from the south is neglible in comparison.
with regard to the towns and villages being merged maybe we could send eric pickles to teach them the virtues of localism whilst cutting their funding. - barry,i disagree with your last paragrah,the eu has a better record of digging itself out of a hole,where as my worry about a double dip is coming from america.
- Leaving the EU is the worst possible thing to do. Much as I dislike the organisation one has to ask oneself what position would Britain be in on it's own. If a charismatic leader stepped forward with a grand vision to take us forward I'd be the first to say Yeah let's get on with it.
Sadly no such person exists. It would be a matter of mere months before the nation found itself bankrupt. We are sucking in imports and exporting fresh air. We have no credible education system that would produce those who would be able to turn the wheels of the economy. We have a feudal energy policy whereby the rich profit from the poor in terms of subsidies for useless wind farms and solar panels. David Cameron's father in law, for example, earns £1000 per day yes that's right £1000 per day by having wind turbines sited on his vast estate. We also have Nick Clegg's wife doing rather well from the alternative energy scam thank you very much.
No I'm sorry but leaving the EU would leave us a banana republic.
Be careful what you wish for. - barry
you have always made great play of brown being a bully, we now find out that flashman is the same if not worse.
we have all seen the systematic battering of the m.p. that stood up to him over the circus animals issue, and we have all seen his antics at prime ministers question time when he tries to belittle people that challenge him. - Howard - That really is the biggest load of nonsense you have ever come up with, it is nothing like the bad temper tantrums, shouting and Nokia throwing of Brown and the way he set him other acolytes against his colleagues. There has never been any suggestion that DC is like that and I suspect, from those who have worked for him, that it will never be the case.
Good for him, by the way, for demolishing the ill-prepared who try to corner him at PMQs. - barry,how do you no its a nokia branded phone,it have been a moterola one.
- good try at bluster barry, rubbishing the message suggests that you know it to be true.
- Bluster Howard - no, backed by authorative first hand accounts and if you cannot see the difference then that is a very poor show by you.
- good effort at a get out barry however there have been many authorative acounts of bullying by dave in the blue press, even your beloved daily mail.
as for public witnessing, we can turn on the telly on a wednesday and see it for ourselves. - LOL Howard - your highly pc definition of bullying is absurd. I have no time such wimpy attitudes as you express here.
- HOWARD;
Everone is aware that in present times our leaderless dave is no different to what maggie was at her worst,
of course because the cobbled together govy day by day is falling apart baz i suppose feels the need to put up smoke screens - Oh really Keith - we really need someone like Mrs T to clear up your lot's mess, yet again. We must hope that Cameron will prove to be up to it over the years ahead. We shall see.
- barryw
as iv said maggie realy was an outstanding leader for her own, at least you knew she would divide the country and you knew exactly where she was coming from.
leaderless dave at times talks tough, then gets into so many u turns
we now see
the lib dems trying to distance themselves from the tories(all to late for them)
and now leaderless dave trying to distance himself from the lib dems to satisfy those in his own party
its funny to watch
if it all wasn't so serious for the country - o.k to pillory brown for bullying, i suppose it is just high spirits wih dave then?
a clear case of double standards barry.
i must try to overcome my wimpish attitude to unpleasant behaviour. - No Howard, not double standards at all - I have said before it is a totally different matter. DC is not known for shouting at his staff leaving them in tears, he does not throw mobile phones around he does not have petty tantrum and sulk, he does not stalk out of dinners leaving his guests bewildered just because they sat down where they wanted and not where he wanted them to... All the above are well documented behavioural traits for Brown. Neither does DC have a coterie of bully boy attack dogs like Balls who brief and threaten colleagues nor, indeed a thug of a press agent.
- well said howard
allyou can do is try to get through
for some its imossible - goren brown wasnt a bully,he was a gentle caring man with the qualatys of a saint.where as david cameron is a bully,a mugger and a traitor to the working class people.
- From today's Torygraph:
"UK must invest £8bn to deal with waste or risk EU fines".
Why waste valuable bandwidth talking about whether or not gordoom was a bully and dave is such a nice man, a very nice man.
It's just a stupid distraction. You might as well be discussing celebrity big brother or the X factor.
We are in serious trouble.
I expect a run on all UK banks either this or next year. It's a serious as that. Prepare yourselves for the imminent global depression and forget all this political ding donging which does nobody any good. - No DC just had a corrupt ex NOTW journo/editor as his press sec - not sure which is worse to be honest.
To be honest Barry there is nothing constitutionally that says when a sitting PM retires that their party must go to the polls to select their replacement - whilst in hind sight maybe the labour party should have done so, they did not have to. To suggest otherwise is being a tad economical with the truth.
The commons has always had more than its fair share of colourful / eccentric / plain barking mad characters, many of whom have held office. It has also had its fair share of corrupt, criminal, nose in the trough sorts too. So in many ways a reflection of the population then.... - Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law Ross - so you cannot make such an assertion of corruption. Yes there are allegations that he was involved in phone tapping at the NoW, that as yet is unproven but the point here is about bullying, a different matter.
You are correct about retiring PMs and elections but that is not my point. He walked into the position unchallenged within the Labour Party so you are right about them.
Personally I wish there were more colourful characters in Parliament as well but the pc obsessed pin-heads who go wild at any word out of place mitigates against them in favour of blandness. - BarryW if you send your picture over I will see if I can upload it from this end. ( EDIT: Many thanks BarryW have uploaded pic now. Hopefully all fine.)
Re the BBC. The BBC has been a great and admired institution over the years, I still feel that way about it. But, and there \'s always a but isnt there, but since they went 24 hour and the same with Sky News...much of the stuff featured smacks of breathing old tired life into the proverbial dead donkey story. Some stories are innocuous in the extreme, but by the time these news channels have repeated them over and over again, and analysed them over and over again, they develop a life of their own. The stories are often just small beer but they develop legs, as they say.
There has been much pointless superfluous discussion over who shook whose Libyan hand. The great curse these days in news stories, and it is so boring, is the hindsight expert. You see it everywhere on the news channels, and even particularly so with those talking heads at Commons Select Committees. Here we see real hindsight bandwagoners at work. Criticising people who are out there involved in life at the sharp end. At the sharp end mistakes get made...it is much easier later to give these people a sanctimonious holier than thou kicking, often much later, from the comfort of your well upholstered Whitehall armchair. - so the bbc are biased again are they barry,i think you will find that itv and most other news broadcasters ran the same story.
- The BBC has become as unprofessiona; as ITV they used to be the side to watch if you didn't want the mickey taking/joking around, but in recent months the BBC has gone the same roite
- Barry, if I follow rightly the story you're referring to, and am not confusing it with another, it seems that the bloke who got handed over is now a leader of the rebels, who now seem to be in power in Libya.
I wonder how he got that far?
Bit of a messy situation which "call me Dave" got himself into there! - Alexander - you (and some others) miss the point of the post, it is a pee-take of the BBC and the naive and rather foolish attitude they displayed towards MI6.
- barry,try watching spooks on the bbc,a new sereis is starting soon.
- Brian - one of my favourite series and I will be watching. It will be the last series though!
- alexander
do you not find all this very worrying?
we don't appear to have that much more knowledge of the many differing personalities that are classed as the rebels
it all appears to be okay first job get rid of gadaffi
but are the rebels going to be any bettrer/
are we to face a very similar situation in time to come?
do we know that the rebels will be up to the job, but also take a democratic route, or will they slip back into gadaffi style rule?
- Let us hope they are better than Gaddafi, they cannot be much worse than the man who did so much to help the IRA over many years.
While we can hope for a westernised democracy to emerge I think that is unlikely.
We just have to hope for two things:
1/ And most importantly for us, a pro-west regime
2/ One that has a core of decency towards its own people even if it does not end up as a democracy as we would like. - Keith, it is worrying, as the Colonel had given up supporting the IRA many, many years ago, had no sympathy towards Al Queda, and was practicing commerce with the West, and also invested a part of Libya's revenues in the Western economy, as well as investing at home.
The USA and MI5/6 (whichever) had close ties with the Libyan government on security issues.
Now, an extremist rebel leader is asking that all the rebel leaders who were once part of the Libyan apparatus step down!
Seems to be a chapter in the making. Of-course the West doesn't know where we stand now with the situation in Libya.
DIY Dave and W. Hague won't be popular if something goes wrong now.
Also, no-one in the future (no government in the world) would believe in a UN mandate, or take part in the issuing of one, as Do-It-Yourself Dave and some other leaders in the West blatently misused the UN mandate 1973 (concerning Libya and "protecting the civilian population") to different ends.
They used it to bomb rebels into Libyan cities! - Alexander - if we had carried on supporting such an evil regime as Gaddafi and turned a blind eye to his threats against those who did not support him it would have backfired anyway eventually.
Better to do what is right and hope that we get the best outcome for us and the people of Libya. - barryw
i have no time for gadaffi
but do have concerns on incoming rebels who may be just as bad
as it just appears these people have been put forward, just to get over todays problems.
as for your words on the need to go in to sort out an evil regime
other countries do things just as bad whilst we sit back and watch(probably because we trade with them!!!!)
- Barry, I never mentioned supporting the Libyan government after the demonstrations broke out there, it would have been the duty of other governments to ask both sides to reason and talk, and to refrain from violence!
But Dave decided to go in to the war for one side, and used a UN mandate to do so, which, however, said a different thing!
It's his responsibility if something goes wrong, not ours! He did it on the DIY basis, without asking the public at home. - a couple of points here.
keith mentions trade links i think it is much more do with oil, we do not take an interest in the slaughter of civilians in syria.
barry mentions that we would like a democracy in libya. i doubt that the libyan people are really inerested in democracy, it is not fit in with their history or future aspirations.
western democracy is just that, it is for us westerners. - That point about democracy and what we want is the point I made Howard.
Yes, there are evil regimes around and yes we cannot deal with all of them but it is good when we can get an international consensus and UN backing to at least do the right thing about one of them.
If at the same time it is good for trade and oil then so much the better. We should not be ashamed at looking after our own needs while also doing a bit of good.
Yes Keith - we do not know what the rebels are like, another point I made and that should not necessarily stop us from doing right against a known evil and to hope for the best and perhaps be in a position to exert a little careful influence in the right direction. - Interesting issue this one and in my mindI know that most people are frustrated by, er, um, er, er about er maybe I should start all over again.
Um, look, I don't think, I'd better give up on this one.
- so it's a little bit of double standards then barryw
choosing to go to war with one particular country
whilst other countries do very similar things and we trade and say how nice they are
or worse, we stay quiet on the sidelines - No Keith - mere practicalities.
- well im afraid i cant agree with you barryw
- i think what keith is actually saying is correct because the west pays lip service to the idea of dictatorships being wrong but will only intervene when oil or mineral wealth is at stake.
if they simply told the truth and said they were there to protect their interests then they could not be accused of double standards. - There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, Howard. We need to look after our interests and if in doing so we can get rid of a monster then even better.
Sadly a lot of people are far too squeemish these days. - you don't seem to have read what i have said barry.
of course we look after number one just the same as everybody else does, the rank hypocricy of pretending to help the victims of mad dictators is seen through very easily though and is self defeating.
we will see what happens when contracts are awarded for the reconstruction. - They were not pretending Howard, that is what stops it being hypocracy. We cannot get rid of all of them in the world so why not help those where there is a public mood to do so, as in Libya and also where it is in our commercial interest.
I see no problem of admitting a dual objective bit, as I said, people are far too squeemish so politicians keep the commercial part quiet.
A lot is said about Syria - personally I am not in favour of intervention there as they have no oil. - howard
well said matey
we should be upfront like barrys says
and not hide behind getting rid of a dictator although thats a bonus - oh dear paulb
theres some spammers - well spotted keith i have spoken to paul just now about it.
- Yes great pity about the spam, have deleted it now chaps and made a few technical adjustments. Hopefully that will be enough to stop it, at least for now. Have also made a copy of it so we have the IP address saved for future reference purposes.
- yep keefykins always here keeping an eye on things
- Spam. That's precisely what some cheeky commentators call David Cameron. Unfair I know but when he says two completely different things with the same mouth you can understand why this might be the case.
After all it was young David who in 2010 suggested that lobbying might be the next scandal to emerge from Parliament. Fast forward, however, to today's Telegraph headline and sure as eggs is eggs it appears that he is completely correct. A soothsayer no less is our Dave.
Still no danger - when confronted with allegations that his party is being unduly influenced by wealthy planners he only has to resort to plan B, which he used in the commons at pmq's on Wednesday to, erm, great effect which goes something like this:
"I know that most people are frustrated by, er, um, er, er about er maybe I should start all over again.
Um, look, I don't think, I'd better give up on this one".
It seems to raise a laugh and will probably work again providing he rehearsed the line a little harder. His performance the other day was most unconvincing and a little hammy. Any fool could have seen through it but somehow, strangely, nobody considered this rubbish piece of pantomime displayed on national television for the pretentious acting that it was.
- a balanced view as always from you barry.
- Yes, do please enjoy your much needed rest Barry.
I could easily believe this Blog was scribbled on lavatory paper with a chew-sharpened pencil stub in the ward rest-room and smuggled out via a pet homing-bat. - lol! not terribly balanced...but all good fun.
But it should be a very interesting autumn all round, the bruvvers will be calling for strike action for sure. It could be our autumn of discontent and it could trouble the shaky coalition government if the unrest hits full swing. A bit of social unrest can cause mayhem as we saw with the rioters.
Was interesting yesterday to see the lack of chemistry between the new Head of the IMF Christine Legarde and Georgie Osborne. The IMF are not all that impressed with Georges plans for our economy, they say it must be more flexible as the problems George was tackling have shifted. The goalposts keep moving and George needs to be flexible say the IMF. They give his economic plan a cautious thumbsup..for now.
One other tiny item which was widely missed this week. Mr Cameron stated at one of those House of Commons Committees, those populated by the hindsight experts, that he was fully behind the EU...
\"we are in it and we have to make it work for us \" said the Prime Minister leaving scant room for eurosceptics within his party. He has no plans for any kind of referendum. - Well done with the views, Barry, it shows a good rating.
Philip's comment made me laugh, that with spam referred to DC.
PaulB notes DC's unreserved adhesion to the EU, while this morning I read on BBC William Hagues disaproval of it, and further read that 80 Tory MPs are setting up a campaign to counter the EU, ranging from redefining Britain's membership to withdrawing.
W. Hague states that the coalition with the LibDems is the reason why he hasn't been able to do more to restrict EU interference in Britain's affairs.
As for Labour, I don't ever read what Balls (it) is up to, and never tune in to the Milli-band wave-length.
Barry's Blog usually gives fair and unbiased accounts of Labour's programmes, so I get most information on Labour from there. - that is what we all like about you alex, that wonderful sense of humour.
keep up the good work. - party conferences are unlike those of the past.
they are all stage managed
hardly a whimper of disagreement
hardly worth watching any more - I agree Keith. Mere grandstanding and utterly pointless. Preaching to the converted, playing to the gallery and stage managed to the last second. They are more akin to the end of the pier show for all the good they do.
Home secretaries come down hard on crime, those ministers involved in business spout nonsense about putting Britain at the heart of the world economy and ever increasingly nonsense is reeled off about the dangers from the weather. Polished off with some joker (every party has them) who plays the warm up man before the inevitably vacuous rubbish from the party leader. Groan, I'd rather watch the Olympics.
No hang on not even I would inflict the olympics on my delicate brain. I'll leave that to the couch potato world - there's millions of them the fools.
Nope I'll find something useful to do during this back-slapping ritual such as buying a bumper box of slug pellets and using surgical tactics swoop unexpectedly against the ravaging hordes of the slimy enemy.
Oh hang on.................
- philip;
i used to watch them all, but now they are so seriously stage managed they realy are not worth watching.
preaching to the converted, no one outside of the hall believes them
no disgruntled voices
no flair
what is needed is a few
denni-s skinners
or
=boris johnsons
ripping away at the leadership
making sure the leaders know which direction to go and what it is the country cries out for.
national politicians have become in the main to slik playing up to the media.
not many chracters left.
in the past no matter what you thought of them all parties hsd some great characters
all sadly gone
- kieth,what is needed is a goverment that can govern for the good of the country.
words are cheap,and action speaks louder than words,yes a can do goverment is needed not one with more u-turns than you can shake a stick at. - There was a statement in the Commons today from Chancellor Osborne. He is to instigate a new system that seperates banking retail from banking investments. Well overdue and generally welcome, and he castigated the other side for their lack of action previously.
\"Something should have been done a decade ago\" said Osborne in an effort to score political points off Labour.
Labour on the other hand today in the guise of Ed Balls apolgised for the errors that they previously made. Stop the clock! To see a politician apologising is surely the rarest of rare things. I nearly fell off my comfortable sofa..as brusque ebullient Balls is not given lightly to grovelling. A unique moment. Oh the humility! - didn't see that paul, as you say not what you expect from mr b*lls.
i must admit to enjoying his aggressive style as it is entertaining could never see him as a future party leader .
could this be a bit of a scam though?
suddenly we have a touchy feely shadow chancellor, wouldn't do his chances any harm in a future leadership election. - I nearly choked on my quails egg sandwich and my vintage champagne as Ed Balls strode bravely to the rostrum and uttered those earth shattering words for a politician..."I am sorry..we shudda cudda...etc"
I think for a brief second even George Osborne was both gobsmacked and touched as he gaped with open mouth at Ed's big ecclesiastical moment. The House was suspended in time for a brief second, but the bonhomie didnt last, they were back spitting at each other in no time.
And speaking of Leaders, young Labour Leader Ed Miliband is addressing the TUC conference today and is likely I understand to highlight differences between himself and that august body of men and wimmin. Should be a firework or two. - there again there might be a damp squid thrown in as well.
- howard/paulb
don't you think it's all part of the labour plan back to office
but first they have to consider is ed the right leader to take them forward - I dont know Keef, are they that sophisticated? Would Balls see an apology as the road back to wellbeing and power.
But hmmm about Ed, I see today he is failing yet again to ignite the opinion polls in his favour. He is making little impact with the populace as a whole, which is a bit of a shame as prior to the summer break he seemed to be doing better, but its all back to square one by the looks of it.
Yesterday in a calculated move he distanced himself from the Trade Unions..especially those planning strike action. According to the BBC this morning "UK WIDE STRIKES" are planned. As the Labour Leader has become known a little unfortunately as Red Ed, because it was the Union vote that took him to power, distancing himself yesterday in advance of any action was good planning, otherwise he would be crucified by the opposition throughout the autumn period.
So with calculation and foresight aplenty he strove to sidestep all that flak...always with one eye on the opinion polls. However by next spring if his standing doesnt improve Labour will face a crises..Mr Cameron his opposite number hit the ground running as PM and is looking oh so comfortable. - paulb;
in general i agree with your comments, apart from your last part, that is on cameron, i dont share your view that hes still the guy for the job, he(like blair before him) came in at the end of govt that stopped listerning(just like maggie) added to this was the 3 terms in office and people wanted a change.
so up stepped cameron making the promises he knew he wouldnt forfill and he was popular for a time, but now his time is running out to make an inmact his honeymoon period is over.
as much as i didnt share blairs vision, he had things planned for his 3 terms that nothing was going to stop him doing his 3 terms.
david is running short of ideas and with this the u turns has made david a very weak man, this isnt good for the short or longer term and will eventualy bring him down.
to be balanced on the political front, we can all disregard the judas lib dems, they are so unlikely to feature in future national politics, and it will takethem a long time to rebuild and regain the confidence of the people
then to ed;
yep he had a need to distance himself from the unions, but the real dangers there are that the unions are the workers on the doorstep, he wont get his middle england geezers out on the doorstep.
hes also getting a lot of dosh from the unions which he needs to consider,
what ed needs to think about is how he can make a difference, r if he feels he can do the job.
his present style is not over affective, and he needs better advisors
he also needs to drop any idea of woman only shortlists as a minor point, he needs every vote he can get in every constituency, more so if the tories get there way on boundary changes - Ed Milliband and David Cameron! I can see no discernible difference between the two 'cept their economic policies. Apart from that they represent parties separated at birth. Both seem to have taken on board, over the years, mainstream liberal democrat policies.
- Both the main parties in UK politics could reasonably be described as liberal and democratic. This has caused the lib Dems to espouse policies which are neither. What a shame.
- True Peter- liberal with our money and democratic in inviting lobby groups and other interested parties influencing the parliamentary agenda.
Not, however, democratic in the true sense of the word. - philip
im afraid i don't agree with your views on milliband/cameron
our ed needs to show hes not just another leader thats not going to listen, and in time alsio find some real radical proposals - Keith, anyone who in future thinks it's a great idea to vote labour should remember that it was labour, with ed millibrain as climate change minister who passed the climate change act which will destroy our economy.
Anyone who intends voting tory should also remember that cameron passed another even more extreme law lowering our carbon emissions further to that. This will also destroy our economy but alot faster.
There is no difference between the two. - philip
i presume by watching your postings you don't agree that all these ommissions are doing nothing to destroy our planet?
im no scientist, but im sure the planet can only take so much abuse, and it must have an effect on the planet.
i dont know if your view is live for today and sod future generations, or if in fact you feel the present continued thrust to do very little to protect the planet is not required.
i fully understand we have to get many other countries to do far more, but that shouldnt stop us doing our bit - That's the trouble even the scientists aren't scientists anymore. They get hold of some dodgy certificate and call themselves climate scientists and earn an awful lot of money in the process. It always makes me laugh about how "We won a great victory with mp's expenses" but are being duped by big business in terms of this issue.
In collusion with stupid politicians red, blue and coward yellow and notorious lefties in the media we are being fleeced on a scale the mafia can only dream of.
Still if you're happy to see your money,erm, pushed up the wall that's you business. I'm not and many others will not this winter as a very cold season is forecast by reputable forecasting agencies (though not, of course, by that hideously corrupt organisation the met office).
Just saying. - phlip
i wonder what theanswer to my question was? - If doing your bit (bear in mind the UK produce less than 2% of global emissions) whilst China, India and other nations are not doing their bit then the answer to your question is No.
We are now in a position where we have elected a bunch of clowns to commit collective economic suicide.
Doing your bit means absolutely nothing. It will make not the slightest difference in world temperatures and merely makes us a laughing stock.
I guess this is all we have to offer the world - the lead on combating a non-existent problem.
As I've said before, only a complete unthinking moron believes in man-made climate change. - philip
thats a no then!!! lol
i dont share all your view
i agree with you that other countries such as china are polluting far worse than the uk, but that should not stop the uk being the leader to stop it.
at the end of the day its our world we are being told w are destroying, and do we realy want to take the chance that these people are wrong - polluting is one thing keith, man made climate change is something altogether different.
we all pollute in some way and argue that what someone else does is worse. - i just feel howard for all the reasons the planet is being destroyed
and we owe it to future generations to act now - steady kieth you are becoming a green voter.
- What have future generations ever done for us?
- Oh by the way for those gullible to believe that going green is the way forward and will make this country of ours leaders in the field did you know that over a million squid was paid out to a NORWEGIAN company who owns a Scottish wind farm NOT to produce electricity last Saturday because of extremely high winds.
Oh and for those who still believe in doing their bit that eleven wind farms were shut down because of the winds and were paid a total of £2.6 million.
Oh and I nearly forgot for those who still believe that what little they do, however small, is good for Mother Earth virtually every single wind farm is foreign owned or part foreign owned and they receive over half a billion in subsides.
Yes, well, you probably didn't but, hey, it's the world right? We gotta do something right? I mean the planet's warming right and is in peril and for God's sake it's only right eh?
My advice?
Come next election do not vote. Vote for nobody. What on earth is the point in voting when each mainstream party is party to this lie - the biggest lie in the history of Mankind besides organised religion.
Again, just saying that's all.
- philip;
you are obviously passionate about the subject and i applaud you for that, i differ from your view, i dont have the knowledge on the subject, apart from the continued climate change has to be for a reason, and yep, if the planet has a problem then why shoulnt we do SOMETHING NOW - Keith, I'm merely find the idea that rainfall or hot weather never, ever happened until Man began driving cars or using coal. That's what those funny, religious and generally unbalanced folk want me and you to believe. I mean it's totally medieval dude! Yikes Scooble it's like someone's trying hard to scare us.
Funny thing is even Nasa announced a sea level decrease of a quarter of an inch over the last year according to their satellite data.
So consider it less of a passion more of a feeling of hating to see thievery and fraud which is exactly what is happening and is committed by the government, pseudo-climate scientists, huge multi-national corporations and all those involved in the scam.
Funny thing is the last MP for Dover, who was rightfully booted out along with the twerps who made up the last government used to call people who held views such as mine as, wait for it, "Flat Earthers".
Well he's up there in the forefront of climate science isn't he? Another useless idiot among a litany of useless idiots who really believe the trash put out in the cultural and political recycle bin that he an others inhabit.
Listen mate, really, don't worry about the climate. If you find yourself concerned put the radio on to say radio three, pour a drink but not too strong mind and relax.
I promise you there really is nothing to worry about. - totally agree philip, the whole man made climate change issue is a farce, we had ice ages and hot periods before man even walked the earth let alone drove over it.
we get told the polar ice cap is melting yet the esteemed david bellamy gave evidence to the contrary.
the people that are benefiting are pseudo scientists that just happen to have a book due out and and manufactureres of wind farms that will light up a few low energy bulbs if conditions are o.k. - Thanks Howard it's good to feel I'm not just a lone voice. However the problem is, and it's a big problem, is that you, me and everybody else who is impacted by the economic downturn, inflation and restrictions on their lives by way of rules and regulations made up by the evil empire of politicians and green warriors have no choice but to suck in air and mutter under our collective breaths.
I'm not a single issue guy (no really I promise) although I confess to highlighting this issue many times for two reasons.
The first is that essentially following this nonsense will only help to drive the last nail in the coffin of whatever industry we have. It will also impoverish us all by way of this eco-wackery making everything more expensive - food, fuel, every single item you buy in the shops and as you will no doubt have noticed lead to the building of absolutely useless windmills all over the land and around our shores. What they don't tell you is that even when these turbines do turn the back up from fossil fuel power stations is not switched off. So fuel is wasted whatever happens.
The other reason is that it essentially highlights what a useless bunch of idiots are running our country. First of all none of them spotted the obvious fact years ago that the world would slide into recession. It's an economic cycle and is one of life's absolute certainties. Of course Vince Cable is always wheeled on to our screens as the one and only who did - absolute tosh of the first water. He didn't. He had "reservations" on what might happen but let's get this straight, he did not forsee what contrarian economists knew years ago.
Anyhow this useless bunch led by the tories, the tories for God's sake, still cling to outdated theory when facts are staring them in the face. They are the denialists.
And we're expected to trust these fools to pull us out of the mire and lead us to growth?
I think not. - Sorry about the picture - I could not find a way to reduce it in size - scroll to the right if you really want to see the fat Germans... If not just look at the rather nice Polish girls working there!
- Still being rude I see Barry,it must have been the way in your young days.
- A sense of humour a mystery to you then Vic? True of a lot of people these days I have to say.
- welcome back barry, the broken till syndrome you refer to happens in so any other countries, in my experience italy was the worst.
clearly countries like that cannot be part of a wider economic union until get their house in order.
any more money thrown at them will just be a signal for them to carry on the same. - I do not think your sense of humour funny Barry,as I said it is very rude to talk about members of the public like you do. I have agreat sense of humour but not rude with it.Alot of public read this forum and some times the way you talk does not put it out in a good light.
- Oh gawd Vic!
Glad you was not with me in Greece... you should have heard what some of my companions were saying, I am positively polite to the Germans above in comparison - 'do not mention ze war!'
I loved it when some Greeks started playing the Dambusters tune loudly near the pool where the Germans were sunbathing - a classic...and we laughed.
By the way - I quite like the Germans but that won't stop me making fun of them. Stuff pc... - Thats why we have a bad name when we are overseas,I worked and lived in both Germany and France and was very well looked after. But there again I was not rude unlike yourself.
- I was not rude to any individual German (or group of them I met) but of course it is perfectly natural to poke fun at them as a race behind their backs. That has always been a part of the famous British humour, whether the Irish, Scots or whatever. I am sure they poke fun at us too.
The PC brigade hate it but quite frankly if they don't like it then they need to get a life. If its not PC then its good for me.
Its all good fun. Do lighten up Vic. - I do not think that most of us agree with what you are saying,if I had anything to say to yourself it would be face to face, not behind your back,what you done was very rude and very wrong and you are one of Dovers business men and chairman of the C/C ,.
You go on to say it was good fun,if your mates had not been there to back you up,you would not have said a word or poke fun of them,again all done behind their backs. - Vic - come off it. I am restraining myself here from saying what I really think, somewhat unusual I know but seeing that you are so lacking in the traditional British sense of humour it is best. I bet you hate the Carry Ons!
- You have no need to as you put it restrain yourself with me ,but say it when you see me. But what you should have done was restrained yourself when you was on show overseas.
- So please explain Vic in what way I was unrestrained when I was in Greece? I suggest that you read all the posts first and not jump to idiotic conclusions.
- We will carry this on when I see you at some point.
- Looks like a super watering hole close to the beach.
I'm unsure what (name removed by request ) is referring to in his posts...but then I never did.
I saw the German Finance Minister on Hardtalk early this morning he refused to accept that the Greeks et al would default but then again he would , Germany have too much cash invested in Greece to pull away now. - Yes indeed Marek, it is indeed a very convivial and pleasant spot. I spent many hours there reading over coffee, beer and lunch....all in the name of research of course!!!
Did you see the Hardtalk interview with the ex boss of M&S? - that was a particularly interesting one... interviewer was very poor though and he handled her overly aggressive style very well. - Jeeez - I feel so much better now that Chris Huhne is on the case..he is to tackle all SIX energy companies to make sure we the downtrodden customers get a better deal with our energy bills. It seems the big solution is to keep switching companies, trade one off against the other.... hmmmm.. as they are all fleecing us in tandem where does the better deal come in!!?
It seems to get worse day by day for Greece. The problem is that the citizenry are not behind the economic austerity measures. They take to the streets to protest instead, and are not enthusiastic enough to endure a bit of hardship to aid recovery.
PS: BarryW the pictures have to be smaller at source before uploading, thats the problem there. Max width about 600 pixels is the best working size...so before loading make sure pic is about no more than 600 or 650 pixels wide. Then it works easily enough. I do this for the frontpage feature section..have to size them before loading. - ........."Jeeez - I feel so much better now that Chris Huhne is on the case..he is to tackle all SIX energy companies to make sure we the downtrodden customers get a better deal with our energy bills."
Are you having a larrf? - thought you would have spotted irony philip, you use it yourself.
- Lol yeah Howard I spotted it but had to play the straightman - it all helps to bring to people's attention when a crook is on the prowl and Huhne certainly is a crook and his policies are a crock. But I guess Big Dave must love him or he wouldn't have made him climate and energy clown.
Actually, as an aside, wasn't it wonderful watching the tofu munchers navel gaze today? It's like watching a modern day bedlam or a rehearsal for a remake of Monty Python. All those beards, all those concerned and furrowed brows because of the price of yurt holidays nowadays. Is it me or do most lib dem delegates appear a little, well, otherworldly? - basically the problem as i see it for the yellows is that most of the membership see politics as a hobby where they can be meaningful and smugly superior to their red and blue counnterparts who crave power.
now the delegates are seeing their elected members as careerists who love the trappings of power and enjoying the compny of the wicked blues when they are not facing a conference audience. - The LibDems have always been pointless and it seems much of their members love being pointless. Politics is nothing if it is not the pursuit of the power to get things done and if the LDs did not accept the responsibility of power then they really would demonstrate that a vote for them is a waste of time.
More on the pointless ones in my next blog, tomorrow - time the sandal wearers 'benefited' from my observations... - I've just watched Huhne on Newsnight.
Is he mentally unbalanced or is he using an extremely old fashioned technique to deflect fundamentally important questions?
I suspect a little of both but I'm off to my GP tomorrow to try to get his opinion on this problem I have with my toes. All this toe curling which I found myself doing watching this bloke has, I suspect, led to serious hairline fractures.
What is really odd is that earlier today he recieved a standing ovation for the really weird rant he delivered to the liberal conference. I mean lie compounded by lie was sucked up by Cleggy and his equally odd chums.
Like, it's the twilight zone dude!
If Carlsberg made energy ministers like him they'd pour the whole dodgy batch down the factory drain.
Liberals eh? Worse than the tories and labour. - When the first Greece bailout came up last year, I wrote then on the Forum, that Greece not only would not be able to repay the money, but would demand another loan, which happened.
First loan, last year = 110 billion (pounds or euros, forgot which).
Second loan, still not agreed upon but due the next few weeks = 109 billion (punds or euros).
I went to Theasloniki in Macedonia in 2004, saw the equestrian statues of King Philip and Alexander the Great posing each on a battle-hardened horse, and am confident that a great Macedonian Army from High will knock the 12 star EU halo out of Greece.
How? Through Democracy! Through a resounding vote!
It's all a question which country will be the first to have a referendum on the EU. Sod the euro!
- I think Greece should start flogging off a few of their artefacts in order to raise the dough required.
- i watched that with chris huhne, came across as a bit strange.
rather worrying that someone like that can reach the level he has. - I will comment further once barryw takes on the lib dem article.
was interesting to see the tory MP who was at the conference(lib dem) saying it's time now to pull out of the co olitian, and have a general election, it's pulling both the parties down.
some interesting thoughts there - getting back to the blog the i.m.f and others are slating greece for raising taxes rather than cutting spending.
of course whatever the greek government do they will upset their people, but there was a news item the other day where a young couple were being levied a property tax of 700 euros per annum.
wages are pretty low there and prices are rising, so they were at their wits end. - I strongly suspect that the tory party conference will differ very little in substance from what you listed in the bullet points above Barry. There is very little difference in policy between the two.
The tories will tell us all that they will "act" on Europe rather than fully embrace it the way the liberals do but in effect can do nothing to change any existing rule, regulation or law made in Europe - not a single one. In fact going on their previous record so far the tories have passed every single law emanating from Europe.
The human rights act will never, ever be repealed by cameron.
Drugs, of course, is the exception but that's merely a red herring anyway and always comes up at liberal conferences.
In terms of business this government has, according to several leading business commentators created more red tape.
You of course omitted any mention of the environment.
Of course as any sensible person knows this is, in many ways, one of the most important aspects of conservative party policy. Cameron is as wet and weirdy beardy on this subject as any self respecting yurt dwelling liberal and probably far worse. His obsession with this issue will cost us billions, lead to more deaths this winter and bankrupt the nation.
So it's one thing making fun of the liberal party conference but it's merely a mirror image of current tory party thinking. - just a couple of points here barry,
1,europe,a super state if you want it,but like germany/france indipendant and bullish.so no superstate as you put it.
2,human rights,take it or leave it.everybody has them evan you.
3,drugs,wheather to leagllize them the debate will go on into eternaty.
4,economy,needs sorting along with the banks and stock markets,maybe with tighter controlls/restrants.
vince cable the most mesunderstood mp ever,needs to be listend to more closly.
danny alexander well what can one say,just a mouth piece for the torys money men.you just have to look at his face when he is interviewd about tory polices,schirming would be a start. - Yes indeed Danny Alexander has all the hallmarks of the traditional Tory, Ive mentioned this several times on the forum in the past. But the chances of him jumping ship seem to have diminished, in my eyes anyway, as his grandfather was at the recent conference and dear lil/big Danny was hugely proud of his traditional roots. He literally gushed in admiration. It seems dear old pa has been a lifelong root and branch Liberal since time immemorial....complete with long white George Bernard Shaw beard and wise ol winkly demeanour.
So if Danny was to move to blue he would encounter some heavy family consternation. - Yet over those years the parties' outlook has changed dramatically. Today's Tories are far more like the Liberals of two-three generations ago and today's Liberals are more like a wet version of New Labour.
- i think you are being very simplistic here barry.
firstly how will the majority of the population feel when they are suffering to see the wealthy given free money?
secondly many very high eaners have actually said they had no objection to paying a higher rate of tax in these troubled times.
you may well be right about the overall tax take being higher but a demoralised electorate will not bit the bullet on it. - I find your whole attitude to this quite appalling Howard - free money indeed!!
You talk as if the money people work hard to obtain belongs to the government who let you keep whatever they are kind enough to dictate.
It is the other way round, it is our money not the government's and the less the government rob of us to waste the better.
The real need that the government has is to deal with the deficit and to get growth into the economy. To steal less of our cash through taxation is actually one way to do it.
Everybody will benefit, its a win-win and those who see it as giving money away need to be educated in the financial facts of life. - barry
you totally fail to see how the general public view the situation.
the boss of tesco today stated that 80% of the population are now struggling financially(as evidenced by the price war just starting).
i think maybe that you are in need of education in the reality of life. - Howard and you need educating in the reality of finance.
So you think that because of a gesture to penalise higher earners there should be more cuts to public spending and more people also be out of work in both the public and private sector. That is what you are saying.
I find that appalling.
Rather than pander to the lowest common denominator of understanding people should be educated in these matters. - barry,i totally agree with howard here.
as i see it the lower paid sector is being screwd for every penny while the higher paid paid [rich] sector are being left alone.in my view the higher,richer shoud contribuit at least 60%of there earnings to equalize repayment of any debts owed.bonuses and share deal pay offs should be taxed in line with earnings. - Just to let everyone know that from now on only Members can post on this page. So please log in first to see the comment box. Change was necessary following a recent situation so this move couldnt be avoided.
Philip can you email me and I will log you in as a member without delay as we appreciate your posts and would like you to continue.
Paul on
dover7@msn.com - Brian - with your suggestion the amount of tax paid by the 5% top earners will fall while inward investment and economic growth will suffer. That will place more pressure on everyone else, increase the level of cuts needed and increase the taxes for the rest of us. Punishing the wealthy does not benefit anyone.
- so there we go thats the first of the big three (well big 2 and a minor party) now under the way.
did the lib dems convince anyone there so distant from the tories in an attempt to save a few seats? I don't think so.,
This was at least an opportunity for cleggy to rebuild and find a direction he wanted to go.
Instead he decided to keep to the same course, a disaster in waiting.
as most commentators stated, no substance in cleggys speech
little change, woeful time ahead for his party.
ed won't fare much better me thinks, but i will comment further once silly season is complete for ed
i dont expect much more from our dave but willl leave it till the end of there conference to. - barry a leaveled scale on tax would be a better idea.
lets say 45p in the pound over 70k,going down to 10p in the pound for those earning less than 25k. - Reproducing this post again so that everyone is clear and fully informed.
* *
Just to let everyone know that from now on only Members can post on this page. So please log in first to see the comment box. Change was necessary following a recent situation so this move couldnt be avoided.
Philip can you email me and I will log you in as a member without delay as we appreciate your posts and would like you to continue.
Paul on
dover7@msn.com - Simple is best Brian. Simple means less room for avoiding tax and less incentive for doing so and it also means lower collection costs and higher revenues.
A single low flat tax rate across all taxes, income, capital, VAT, Inheritance of 20% with an income tax threshold of £12,000. - barry,a single tax rate wont work,but a scaled tax rate between 5 and 45% would,add to that by cutting out all tax loopholes and adding a auditing prosses to counter any attemps of money movements to avoid payiny tax.
- Of course a single tax rate will work. There are a significant number of countries that do just that. Simple always works best.
- barry,your missing the point,the single tax rate will either be to high for the lower paid or to low for the higher paid.thats why i suggested a sliding scale.
oh and the lower paid need money to spend on lifes basics. - No Brian - that is THE point, a single tax rate whatever you earn, a low rate too with a high nil rate band. That will increase the amount of revenue that is collected and be good for the economy.
- barry,we shell see whos right and whos wrong.
- bouncing well today barry.
sterling,euro,us doller all tetering on bankruptsy. - A currency cannot go bankrupt Brian. The problem with the Euro stems from such diverse economises being locked in to it. The weaker countries cannot allow their currency take the strain so their economies are suffering badly. The best solution for the PIGS is their own currencies that can float as a means to kick start recovery.
- i can feel a devalueing of stirling coming on.
- err Brian - sterling floats and right now is not high, it is at the right level for our economy that has helped exports providing a buffer against the recession. Something the PIGS really need out of the Euro for.
- There is no doubt that the current fiasco with the Euro is indeed as BarryW says above causing economic instability right across the world. Even President Obama made a statement to this effect yesterday..by the tone of his statement it certainly looks like the Americans are getting extremely irritated with Europe in general as it is leaving their own economics decidedly rocky.
Right across the EU governments are keen to see the Euro survive and essentially its only Greece who are cocking it all up...the population there do not have the will to embrace the austerity measures required. You need to take the people with you otherwise you are in trouble. You can bring a horse to water etc etc... Maybe its time to let Greece go so that the Euro can pull itself back into favour. - Its not just Greece PaulB and its not just the austerity measures either. The weaker economies, Portugal, Spain, Greece, Ireland, Italy are all suffering from being members of the Euro with an exchange rate that is seriously disadvantaging them. The imbalance between the stronger economies and the weaker ones is effectively pulling wealth out of these countries to the stronger ones.
The solution is the break up of the Euro into at least 2 or 3 separate currencies plus austerity measure to curb their excessive spend habits that have so weakened them.
take Greece for instance. Imagine if they broke away from the Euro and their new currency were to float. The value would fall and holidays there would become very cheap and would their olives, ouzo, feta and other export goods. The sales of these would boom and tourists would flood in. Tax revenues would rise and the overall wealth of Greece improve. Their import of manufactured goods would fall and that would be detrimental but this would be more than off-set by the benefits. They would still have to cut spending to match their income but their recovery from recession would take off.
It is only the vanity of politicians that is keeping the Euro alive in its present form and preventing economic recovery. - the next problem is the i.m.f. who have made clear that they would be unable to bail out italy.
from what we read italy and a few others are heading towards self destruct and expect money to be thrown at them. - Good morning each and Barry.
I am glad that you include the political betting assessment of each party leader and I trust we shall get to know Dave's marks out of ten when it is his turn...do you have a prediction Barry? - No prediction but we will see Tom!
- baz;
if your thinking of having a balanced view then fair enough, but yours as usual was very one sided(and thats fine)
i watched ed and he came across ok, and like al political leaders(cameron included) he will set out policies closer to the general election.
ed gave a good speech outlining where he feels the party should be heading, and this i believe is the long awaited start of a fight back taking it to the tories
like ed balls who has taken on the tories
its now up to the tories to respond.
i think things look better now we have a more effective opposition
and if they drop the woman only short list i will vote for them
unless they do i wont be.
so all your labour cllrs that post on here, thats your challenge between now and the next general election - Keith - Not just my view quoted there I also quoted Mike Smithson's and it seems most of the press take his view.
It was, to be kind for a moment, an underwhelming speech. - Philip - if you see this. To comment you need to email PaulB (contact tab) and he will sign you up - for free and no obligations.
We don't want to lose your contributions. - i did not see the speech but read most of it, seemed o.k nothing too specific but it is a long time until the next election.
the financial times slated it totally as a return to the unelectable past, nomally they are generally neutral or even supportive towards the reds.
a bit of a red herring about the conference audience, most are of the extreme wing of each party.
if the blues advocated public hangings and floggings the audience would rise as one to cheer and bay their approval. - On the latter point so would most of the population of the UK Howard.
- barry,that would be a long in fact a very long debate.
- you're right brian, the subject is never really debated.
the outcome of such an at length debate may give a surprising outcome. - it wpuld be nice if was debated but cant see it happening.
- the fightback has begun,,,,,,
- So how many beginnings have you announced then Keith?
- BAZ;
Although you don't wish to publicly agree i have said many times that labour has a long way to go.
i also posted many times during and after tony blair that i didnt share his vision, nor where he took the party.
but that said the alternative is dire as we see today so it was a matter of second best.
on this and other threads i stated that ed needs to get his ar** in gear if he wants to be a credible alternative to the tories and he is starting now down that path.
its refreshing we have an alternative - Essentially this seems a good move, as you know what they say, 60 is the new 40!
I only see two problems with it
a) lots of oul geezers cluttering up the job market so that the young cant get on the job ladder. We already see a large rise in unemployment amongst the younger members of society..we must steer clear of large swathes of feckless unemployed youth.
b) when someone is too old for the job how are the employers going to get them out. Some might stay til they are ninety..heavens! This could be a bone of contention as some guys never recognise the obvious in themselves. I can see court cases. - PaulB you will still have to be mentally and physically fit to do the job and can be 'retired' if not. There will be teathing problems certainly but the principal is right.
As for youth unemployment. We now have swathes of young foreigners coming in and taking jobs and one reason for this is the unemployability of some of our own youth. Over 65s carrying on working will not adversely impact on jobs for our employable young. Those who are unemployable need to be dealt with and the education system sorted.
Let us not forget - choice and options should be what people work towards for when they get older and for that a decent private pension system is needed and ours is desperately in need of improvement in the ways I describe. - In 1971 in Canterbury there was a baker's shop in the Borough (between Palace St and Northgate). In those days it was run by an old chap whose name I forget who was 78 years old. He used to get up at 3 every morning to get the dough rising and the ovens warmed up. That was remarkable enough but he only had one employee in the shop - his mother!
- it will have an affect on the young unemployed, and unemployed in general.
- I do not think so Keith for the reasons I have said. Labour's mass immigration has had a far greater impact on them.
- barryw
immigration over many years may well have contributed
but this latest move will do little to help the young or unemployed. - if i rememer rightly it started in the 50's.
- if we are saying having even less jobs around because of this new move will have no effect on the unemployed and young
then please baz come back to earth lol - Keith - you gloss over the fact that 90% of all jobs were taken by immigrants under your lot. Labour could have taken advantage of the transitionary arrangements for Eastern Europeans when they acceded to the EU and the result of their deliberate was a huge influx.
Giving our own elderly people true freedom from age discrimination is a step forward. You never worried about the impact of job for our youngsters when Labour opened the floodgates. Clearly you value immigrant workers more than equality and fair treatment for our own over 65's. - barryw;
shows how little you know about me baz;
i arranged a meeting withe home secretary of the time
and held a public meeting on the issue
just two of many things i did during my time to give you a taster
and by the way labour are not my lot anymore
- Of course they are your lot Keith....
In the previous posts you focussed only on the over 65's and ignored my points about the immigration impact because the latter did not fit your argument. - shame you dont read my posts barryw
then had you done so you would have noticed i did reply - who is that bloke standing next to paul?
for a minute there i thought it was francis rossi. - Howard - that is the real deal Rick Wakeman not some pretend Rossi!!
Keith - kettle and pot there and no you didn't, not properly anyway. - baz;
party conferences(tories included) have become totaly stage managed, it's a shame because years gone by people would have watched conferences, now they are so predictable
and the 2 main parties are so distrusted no one bothers.
the labour conference is also a networking event, but never the less just as much stage managed as the tories one.
lets see how david intends to get our revival going, at mo there has been no answers and muddled through, and the divisions on the E.U. the big issue - i just hope that paul was a gentleman and signed an autograph for rick wakeman.
- Of course he did Howard....always the gent, Paul and modest with it.
- I can understand Rick Wakeman being there...a typical Tory Yes man.
- Ah well there we are..some legendary moments there, as referred to above by BarryW. "Every PM needs her Willy". Yes I remember that one well, it referred to Willie Whitelaw one time politico supremo in Northern Ireland, way back when politics was politics and times were hard...especially with the Irish situation.
I didnt realise you had seen all that in the flesh BarryW. "The lady is not for turning!" I can guess that would have brought the house down. Perhaps even a standing ovation!!
Its not the same now is it? all the best pointers and one liners are briefed to the press beforehand and nobody is surprised about anything. Everyone gets the obligatory standing ovation even the dreariest performers.
Although speaking of surprises, I think Mr Tiree surprised a few with his economic outburst the other day. I beleive he was shuffled sideways yesterday in an effort to shut him up. He could have buggered up the warm wave of PR otherwise. Pity, because as head of the Treasury Select Committee he knows what he's talking about. He does not agree with the Osborne approach to economic revival. in case anyone isnt up to speed.
Love the pic of Pauli Watkins and Rick Wakeman...neither of them ever hit a bum note ! heh heh! - You are right that it is not the same as it was, PaulB. It has become far too bland and there are not enough real characters.
For that I blame the image consultants and the politically correct hysteria when a more colourful character emerges to say something they don't like. It all mitigates in favour of a safe blandness in our politics and that is not healthy.
The overdone outcry over Bob Frost is a good example of this. - mmm My verdict boring, Bruce Anderson on Conhome this morning says it is the 'flattest' he has attended since 1976.....
- yes all 3 conferences as i saidbefore all stage managed.
sad realy.
- George Osborne, Kenneth Clarke, Boris Johnson were among those yesterday on televison unable to answer questions properly, for fear that anything they say off message, would be catapulted into headlines within minutes. Unretrievable headlines. The media happens very fast now. Take Theresa May...the cat item made all the news programmes but what she really had to say, her real message.. didnt. Thats the problem they face.
A story even if it inacurate is all over the WWW in minutes and is undeniable, unstoppable. Likewise with the 24 hour TV news channels. People are very nervous that the right message gets out.
If say you had a new policy that you were about to give everyone a Fiver on every street corner.. and some big wig says something of a racial nature or similiar on the conference platform. The free fiver policy would get lost in the mayhem of the latter. Thats why the conferences are more stage managed now.
If you cant get your message out, if you cant get the right message out...you're lost! Political managers know this only too well. - all very well paul but surely one of the political managers would have stopped the outburst from the home secretary.
she must have advisers and research assistants to make sure that she is aware of the facts? - I would expect that it is just one of those researchers who presented her with incorrect facts Howard. P45 time for someone I trust.
- closley followed by the p 60.
- quite right Brian..LOL
- The coalition Government has become a house of cards standing up precariously, and one card mustn't offend the other. Open the door too much, and they'll all fall down.
So what do you expect at a Tory party conference? - paulb;
isn't it all sad how you have to be on message to get on
blimey i wouldn't survive in local politics these days, much prefer to say it as it is.
barryw
i welcome your honest review of the conservative conference - I know Keef...Im afraid nobody would be able to zip your gob!lol
All had to be on message for New Labour but it paid off...this method set a precedant, and of course won three elections in a row.
Real politics, the table thumping variety of said pursuit, ended with Michael Foot, a brilliant man yet all just remember him now for wearing the wrong coat at the Cenotaph. He wore a duffle coat. Furore followed...media frenzy!
What it showed though.. was that times were changing. Image became all. Great speakers like Michael Foot who spoke with passion, who made the hairs stand up on the back of your neck, who called you to revolutionary arms, were from then on extinct. Gone. True passion had and has now all been cut to the quick.
Nowadays gentle speeches that wont disturb the message on the six o'clock news are what's required, while the audience in the conference auditoriums nod off quietly, or pensively check out the muck in their finger nails. - I think boring is too short a word to describe this conference. It was a totally pointless exercise which did nothing to further Mankind in any shape or form. In fact it drew one's attention to an organisation without vision, plans for the future or any hope for us all.
Rightfully it has been described as stage-managed. This is only half the story. It was stage-managed to such a point that it reminded me of the Stepford wives. The audience clapped at the correct times during the hundreds of various speeches and all that but what I found rather insideous was the faux question and answer sessions.
A panel of experts in their field were introduced to the audience and planted questions were expertly answered by the experts whose expertise could never be called into doubt.
Take Spelman for example. To her left were the usual bunch of fools including Charles Hendry climate minister licenced to kill sparrowhawks with wind turbines opining about our energy mix. Damn fool planted questions were asked and pre-prepared lines were extruded, lies and mis-informed nonsense in other words, in order to put forward policy.
All too depressing.
As for the rest of the "conference" it was nothing of the sort.
Cameron's closing speech was utterly meaningless.
Someone here mentioned Michael Foot making the hairs on the back of his neck stand up. I felt the same way listening to the various contributions from speakers at this event only it wasn't the hairs on the back of my neck standing up but the crunch of fractured toe bones as they curled into a tight ball inside my shoes. - i see that you are back with a bang philip, don't forget that as a full member you can post on any thread once you hae taken the initiation test.
- Im never sure what you replace BIG government with? The Big Society wont do it, even several Tory top flighters are saying this is not a goer anymore. It's merely a slogan for more active community involvement, for things to be run at a local level. Sure... But the people who do get involved in local voluntary work do so already. Some people do it, get involved, some dont..its already the way of things...as we often see here on Doverforum from the various guys involved.
But this kind of voluntary ideal wont place replace many of the basic things society needs to do, care for the elderly, facilities for the disabled..and.. well there are hundreds of other things. All these things need to be paid for..so you can only cut so far without seriously undermining your very own society. - Good morning each and Barry.
Barry, you speak wonderfully of the expanse of plain-matt-white gallery wall and glowingly of the large(ish) frame that hangs upon it, but of the picture within that frame...well, that is left to the imagination. Or left to the imagi-Nation that is to populate the scene;for I cannot envision this, your magnum-opus, to be a still-life. Indeed, it is the busier works of Hieronymus Bosch that spring to mind as being the most redolent of the future you hint at that is the best-of-all-possible-worlds that is to come.
While little if anything that the current Conservative-lite administration proposes is to your liking you and Dave are cut from the same cloth, no mistake there.
With what you have written as with life itself, it is the small things that command attention in order that the larger issues shall be self-sufficient [I did wonder if 'self-regulating' would be best...but no]. This brings me to that small issue you share most closely with friend-Dave. To wit, 'all'.
Utilising the wonder that is the inter-web I discover that there are at least 3416 words in the lexicon of the English language that contain those three letters (or is it two?--"...say do you remember, I'm your pal, it was 'A' and 'L' all the time..."), in that order.
"We are allegedly in this together." To give but one example.
So Barry, please dip do, your brush; whether it be 'Willow-Pattern' Blue or 'Picasso' period-Blue and paint us your picture.
Might I suggest a title?
"When mankind gets it right."
- Barry, when Dave got into 10 Downing St., he fired tirades at public spending at home, but then was let loose with a check book and dished out checks all over the world, on bailouts in the eurozone, lavish spending programmes in Asia, wars, and so on.
He has taken the final straw out! - PaulB you do not replace it with anything. We all grow up, be big boys and girls and stand on our own feet without nanny.
- baz;
sure you didn't mean what you replied to paulb post(or did you?)
paulb mentioned some sections of society at times and under these cuts, unable to fend for themselves, such as some of the elderly and disabled
and you stated let them stand on there own two feet
fairly heartless if correct - Keith - My point is that for the vast bulk of us the State is far too intrusive, costly and does far too much. It needs to be cut back in scope and cost dramatically. Most of us do not need it and need to look to ourselves to provide and not the State.
Yes we should retain help for those who genuinely are unable to fend for themselves but be more selective in that help. Over the long term though (not retrospective to those already hit) individuals should be expected and made to make their own provision for things such as an income in the event of ill-health, medical treatment, pension etc.
For those temporarily down on their luck keep a safety net but it must be a safety net and not a lifestyle as it is at present. - barryw
this is a view as you know i have posted on and often agreed with you on.
even laid out similar views
i realise you wouldn't want that lol
but on these issues we are close in opinion
maybe a few tweeks but very close in viewpoint - Barry you say that the days of big government must end. How does that fit in with Dave Cam's big idea to introduce a fat tax whereby foods which are considered to be bad for us in terms of the fat content are levied with extra tax in order to dissuade ordinary folk from buying those foods. Does this not smack of big government or nanny state?
Ironically I think I quite support the measure. I did warn those who supported the smoking ban that very soon they'd be taxed for eating burgers and other foods. Not in my wildest dreams did I think that Cameron would come up with this crazy idea. It just goes to show that one should always expect the unexpected.
In terms of a "crisis of democracy" I would put it another way. Over the years we are facing a crisis of liberty which is something else completely. It seems that dark vested interests are pushing forward the agenda and the citizens of the UK are merely an inconvenience - something that just gets in the way of those vested interests.
It's quite scary really.
Lastly we are facing a serious crisis which was not forseen by anyone in government least of all Saint Vince who is supposed to have foretold of the peril we now face.
I, however, much to the annoyance of some I know have been predicting this for many years now and I'm not even any kind of economist.
Sheesh. My next prediction is the complete fall of the green empire in the same way that other discredited and evil empires fell in previous years. It will take time but that day is coming though it will have been proved to be the most costly experiment in the history of Mankind. - The smoking ban was the only good new legislation brought in by the Labour government Philip. It is so nice to be able to walk into a pub or restaurant without being assaulted by foul smelling and poisonous air. Not so much much 'nanny state' but a blow for liberty, the freedom to breathe clean air in pubs etc.
I do not support new taxes full stop, unless they are part of a project of reducing them overall so I agree about the fat tax. - baz
i rest my case - IMHO Global Warming is a scam!
1/ I agree entirely, BUT I don't see anything being done along these lines. Except the argument for more Nuclear Power.
2/ "firms that come up with new and innovative solutions to..." If and when.
"...our economic competitiveness will suffer" All in all...lets dump our 'waste' in Africa and get back to slavery here.
Small is beautiful. A singular truth that has been around for a long time and is now just another slogan to add verisimilitude of decency to a thoroughly corrupt inter-government grab for yet more of your money with no thought of earning it. - Just to go back to the nanny state for a moment...
I heard someone say on TV late last week re the Fat Tax, as mentioned by Philip, that half the world are starving to death and the other half are gorging themselves to death..so whatever side of the equasion you are on the same result ..death. Bit of a simplification but with a real ring of truth in it.
Nannyism is always needed. People huff and puff about it but we need extensive food guidance so that we know what the hell we are eating/buying..we need guidance on smoking so that we dont puff ourselves to early death, we need guidance/nannying on drinking so that we dont kill ourselves that way, and we need guidance on road speed so that we dont kill ourselves and others by driving stupidly fast etc. There are many other cases.
There will always be a need for nannying because people seem unable to look after themselves. Thats the upshot.
Although various political parties in opposition always pooh pooh nannying, but when they get in themselves they do the same thing. - I totally disagree with your attitude there PaulB - nannying is not needed, leave people alone to live their lives. If they want to know what killing them then the media will still be producing its stories and people can make their own choices. We do not need governments to interfere. Treat people as independent grown ups and not as serfs of the state.
- A fat tax is completely bonkers. Much like having four economists in the room you get five different opinions the same is true for nutritionists and doctors. Once again we see the tyranny of the experts who know better and hold sway regarding government policy. Introduce a tax twenty years ago and eggs, potatoes, beer and other healthy food items would have been taxed as they were perceived by experts to be bad for us. Butter is good. Margarine is bad. Isn't it strange that a certain margarine maker sponsors the London marathon describing itself as healthy. Quite the reverse is true.
Nowadays it's less of a nanny state it can best be described as nanny superstate as most of these crackpot ideas come from Brussels. I read today that the nannies in Europe have directed that children under the age of eight are banned from blowing up balloons and whistle blowers and magnetic fishing games. Ahhh well yes we must think of the chiiiilldren eh?
As regards climate change policy I think the fact that we have weirdo in chief Chris Huhne in charge of energy policy best sums up the government's commitment to our economic future - in essence they are quite willing to sacrifice our economy in order to worship the climate change lobby who stand make billions. Business's who require large amounts of energy to produce their products will be leaving in their droves but hey, we're saving the planet right?
It has to be said that dropping Huhne will make no difference whatsoever. This government are totally committed to screwing our prospects whatever the price. - i think we all know what is good and what is bad for us by now.
most people just do what they enjoy, as long as they give their kids a decent balanced diet that is all that matters.
all the government needs to tell us is that b.s.e. salmonella or something else that is particularly dangerous is about, the rest we can work out for ourselves. - Anyway back to the matter in hand, namely, climate change.
I'll put my cards on the table for those who aren't familiar with my views on the subject.
Either you believe the myth of a trace gas changing our climate or you don't. There are no halfways. You can't be half pregnant. You can't half believe in a God. You can't be a Conservative and a labour supporter, oh hang on, yes you can just join the Conservative party in order to fulfil that one.
Anyhow this green mania has affected each and every aspect of our lives. Everything. From the amount you pay for your energy bills to the amount of elderly people who die every winter. From having to buy parking permits in Islington to save the polar bear to the amount you pay for flights abroad (although the boy George has admitted that that particular tax has nothing to do with the environment).
The economic implications of the climate change act and worse still climate policies enacted by the conservatives will destroy any surviving industry in the UK. Regarding windfarms, well they don't work and they cost us dear as wind is the most expensive form of creating energy (when they do) and even when they don't work which is most of the time it still costs us millions.
Personally I shall not vote at the next election having voted in every single local and general election since I was legally able to.
I shall not vote for any party who have been stupid enough to be hoodwinked into believing in the myth. It's as simple as that.
It's not a single issue problem I have but my philosophy is that I might as well vote for a party who believe in creationism or eugenics or the moon is made of cheese.
Some might think this a little extreme but who in their right mind would vote for a party who believed in a moon made of cheese?
Catch my drift? - Good morning each and Barry.
Although you do not give a source for the Ideology Map illustration I am much taken by it's elegance. Could you rectify this oversight Barry?
I wonder if I am to take it that the SNP are closest to the Ideal or whether they are simply all things to all men?
That the BNP are depicted as slightly more Authoritarian than the Conservatives they are far less right-leaning. I wonder where the 'National Socialists' of the Third Reich would sit in this?
Point 5. Perhaps there are to many to mention, but if this particular cap fits there would be no danger in law in mentioning them.
One final point.
Might it be that the placing of UKIP be one of visual convenience and they more rightly occupy much the same place as the Conservatives?
P.S.
Dave could fit into No.1, except for the intelligent bit. - That is a common chart - Google it Tom. I did it there not for any purpose other than to add visual interest. I do not directly address it in the text.
- There is also a seventh type Barry.
Chris Huhne. - No Philip, he is a type 4 as are all GlibDens within sniffing distance of a ministerial appointment.
- Group 6 corresponds to UKIP.
I can see a part of the Conservatives making an alliance with UKIP, as Camers seems to have gone bezirk.
UKIP is destined to gather more support, plenty of support, as people are realising that the Party was right all along, and predicted the worsening mess that our Country is falling into.
Camers cannot and will not get Britain out of the mess, but drags us in only deeper, and then acts as if he were God Almighty.
He has practically whole Churches against him now, including the Church of England. Many Tory MPs are determined that they cannot and will not follow him any longer. He has gone too far!
He has taken the mick out of our Nation, and the outcome of his disastrous policies is still not fully determined. He has ruled like a tyrant, similar to T. Blair, and Democracy for him seems a no-go area.
Ha hasn't the guts to get our Army out of Afghanistan when even the military commanders in Britain and America say the war there cannot be won.
He dragged our Armed Forces into a war in Libya, just after massively reducing are defence capabilities. Unknown are the where-abouts of thousands of looted anti-aircraft missiles, which some say have disappeared to the Magreb-Sahel area controlled by Algerian Al Quaeda.
Camers will answer for this!
He's writing off large sectors of the Police Force while the people want more security.
He thinks it's a pass-time to continue allowing 800,000 people to immigrate to Britain each year (350,000 go home, net immigration 450,000 a year).
UKIP is a common sense party, and is open to Christian values. It doesn't harangue other religions or other beliefs, but will not sacrifice our Heritage to the p/c brigade of the Loony Left.
UKIP is the only ascending party, the one whose support steadily increases at each election (2010 + 50%).
UKIP MEPs daily stand up and fight the EU madness.
The UKIP NEC is ready with a fully fledged Party manifesto to stop further rot and decay of our economy and our valued traditions, and to lead us out of disaster.
Perhaps slightly contrary to my ideals, UKIP is for increasing the British defence capabilities with sophisticated weopons, but we can be sure that UKIP is for Defence and not trying to get involved in other people wars, as Camers does.
And UKIP won't go running around the world writing off checks for billions of pounds from our common check book trying to solve all humanity's problems while our economy rots and decays. - UKIPs biggest achievement to date is to boost the pro-EU LibDems and in doing so to undermine the anti-EU wing of the Conservative Party and the government.
- and your point being barry is............
- brian
barry was referring to the split in the blue vote letting in other parties.
anyway the blog, what about conviction politicians. they are covered partly in 1,2,3, and 6 but where are they nowadays?
i don't see any tony been, michael foot, paddy ashdown, margaret thatcher types around.
last week lord tebbitt decried dave for believing that elections are won from the centre ground.
dave is right though, he learned that from tony blair - conviction politicians frighten the electorate nowadays.
- I would place conviction politicians in 6 Howard alongside some 'matured' 4 and 3's.
A lot would certainly be in 6 most certainly. Think of those who will argue their case from the heart with real belief that we will all be better off if we went along with them. Foot, Benn, Thatcher and Tebbit all qualify despite being very different people with very different ideas. - The consensus for many years has been that elections are won in the centre ground of politics. Where the hell that came from I have no idea. It's rather like saying the Bishop is coming round for tea so don't say anything controversial and for God's sake don't swear .....Doh!!!!! I just did it.
It's complan politics. Bland and magnolia in colour and takes us and the country nowhere. It's status quo politics. Harmless and meaningless in my opinion.
In todays environment it's even more crucial to have vision and not merely react to events. This doesn't mean a giant swing to the left, right or middle ground but a bold vision and brave ideas rather than what we have now.
On a lighter note I notice that the government's idea to raise the motorway speed limit to 80 mph might, according to convicted, sorry conviction politician Chris Huhne, apply to electric vehicles only.
I'm lost for - philip
it is a proven fact that the centre grounds wins nowadays, just listening to politicians during the run ups to elections confirm this.
there is very little difference between the reds and blues despite barry's protestations.
nearly red ed has decided to become simply red ed, making his views known at their conference.
watch his ratings plummet. - Good point Howard.
- There are huge attitude differences Howard. We may no longer have the old socialist v capitalist battles but that does not mean they are all the same. We are just a bit wiser now to know it is not a them and us situation.
- not so sure about major policy differences barry, i know you will refer to big government in defence of the differences.
on a daily basis we read about how we should spend hours sorting out our rubbish into umpteen different containers and being told how we eat the wrong food and drink too much.
the philosophy may be slightly different between the blues and reds, i can sense traditional blue supporters seething at this time about the way things are going with dave and friends, but the leader is a pragmatist and knows what works.
if ed had been older and wiser he would be doing exactly the same now. - I love this quadrant, I will try and find the link that allows you to find out where you would fall.
Does anyone know their position?
Reading through I thought I fell into the 'number 3' category, but then realised Barry was just describing the Royal Family. - There is a version somewhere that helps place you personally on the chart.
The point is though, it is not fixed - results do vary a lot for the political parties and sometimes the results can be rather dubious. - Yes indeed the Euro crises rumbles on but there is talk of a 'big bazooka' solution coming next week, this is something David Cameron himself has called for. Basically what the big bazooka solution means is that you have unprecedented levels of currency in place to tackle almost every possible future emergency, trillions to hand, trillions on tap, thats as I understand it anyway, but all the details will be released next week.
I saw this original interview with John Redwood as mentioned by BarryW above and yes he offered a quiet solution. He did NOT call for an end to the Euro though, but he offered the prospect that those countries who cant keep up...should drop out, but NOT default, and should re-introduce their own currency.
As we stand though we seem to have very few countries actually wanting to drop out of the Euro, everybody wants to remain at the party. All seem to see a solution coming and want to be onboard when normal service returns. We dont see any nations queuing up to leave the EU or the Eurozone, not so far.
It may indeed be the best solution for the Greeks but they dont want to do it. - PaulB - as I have said before they are placing personal vanity and pride before the financial health of their countries.
- yes barry you are right,there is a lot of vanity in our goverment,thats why they are not helping to sort the problem.
an "i'm allright jack,sod you attitiude is not working". - I wouldn't hold out too much hope Barry. For starters as you say she campaigned against the third runway presumably on environmental grounds. That decision is bad for Britain and will merely shift our status as a airline hub to France or other places.
She is also a noted warmist - check out her voting record and stance on these issues and I suspect that any decisions made surrounding the port will be from a green standpoint rather than any other regardless of other issues.
Don't hold your breath.
Judging by Nadine Dorries comments today I'd give Nadine a pop at the job. - Her constituency is under the flight path, Philip.
- If Justine Greening has considerations to green policies, such as the laws on reducing carbon footprint, which the British Parliament is committed to, then this might take the terrain from under the DHB privatisation proposal.
The idea that there will be twice as many HGVs transiting through Dover's port facilities over the next 30 years and that for this reason the Port should be privatised in order to finance a T2, might well be considered unacceptable and against carbon reduction policies.
This could open the way to my proposal that we have a rail-link back at Western Docks, which is part of my representation to the Ministry of Transport.
Hopefully, Charlie's lobbying powers will not replace sane public consultation. I never understood if Neil Wiggans knows about the carbon reduction laws, and wonder if he will be trying to contact Mrs. Greening to ram his P/p through.
Hopefully she will uphold standing legislation that obliges Britain to reduce, not increase, carbon pollution.
Hopefully, she will consider a port-toll as the equivalent to a kind of carbon tax: you pollute, you pay for it.
The income could be used to regenerate the rail link, which would be essential to reducing, and not increasing, pollution.
She might also consider that 75% of Dover's electorate did not vote for Neil Wiggans's P/p proposal. - You raise some very interesting points there Alexander. Essentially this highlights in some small way the implications of a cult which has possessed the minds of politicians and the gullible in general. It's where real life clashes with zombie ideas and the result is always, always bad for people, business's and countries in general.
As I suggested earlier Greening's obsession, along with the rest of her tory soulmates, with all things climate related is likely to completely skew the basic running of the port of Dover for example.
It's tragic if not farcical but such is the crazy green obsessed world we live in.
You do suggest that any income generated by some sort of green tax might be used to regenerate the port. Sorry to disappoint you but dream on. That would go straight into treasury coffers and then shipped on the first electronic transfer to our partners in the EU to help pay for yet more bailouts.
It's funny you know. I've been banging on about this stuff for ages and I'm sure folk think I'm a bit of a weirdo.
Nope, far from it. It's only when this ridiculous obsession with climate impacts people's lives on a day to day level that the real implications are revealed. Importantly it also reveals alot more than that - that the tories, muchlike labour should never be trusted.
As a footnote I read that in all likelyhood there will be a strong whip to vote against a referendum on Europe.
Such is tory Euroscepticism. - Philip, interestingly, UKIP is very scathing of the Government's climate-change policies. Thought this might interest you.
However, my green tendencies are based on the idea that the less petrol we consume, the cheaper, and the better.
It's not only climatic alterations, but pollution as such, which we breathe in, that I'm worried about (also with reference to Dover's port traffic). Without a rail link, and if port traffic increases as DHB say it will, Snargate Street will become an even deadlier area, where the toxic fumes will further endanger Dover's resident population.
All T2 traffic would have to pass through Snargate St., as does most of Eastern Docks traffic. Here in Dover (you are in Deal), we do have something called a pollution problem.
However, the train tracks pass within several yards of Western Docks, so my proposal as stated in the representation, for a rail link to Western Docks, is thought out for Dover, and for less road congestion in general.
It has nothing to do with wind-turbines, thermo-glass on roofs etc.
Philip, we do have a serious pollution problem in Dover! - i think that philip is right on this one, dave will set the whips loose on any m.p that vote for a referendum.
if he lets them have their way on this then pandoras box could be opened. - It is tactics, Howard - read what I have written. The worse case is the one the LibDems want, a full in/out referendum. I certainly hope he does turn the whips out to push a vote on renegotiation and against the referendum, this is far too important for that kind of simplistic approach. We must get out and the nest way is renegotiation and not to put all the money on a one-shot horse.
A failure of renegotiation would then open the way for a more drastic approach and help soften the mood for an in/out. - my preferd option is,a,my second option is,c,as long as we fully intergrate,have the euro as our currency,and sign up to the shenanagan agreement.you know the one i mean barry,the one you dont have to flash your passport at calias.
- c will lead effectively to b Brian....
You are whistling in the wind and what you want would be an utter disaster for the UK. - in your anti euro opion.
as i keep telling you it will work if everybody puts there mind to it,things can be changed from the inside better than not sitting on the fence or evan the outside of it.
the little englanders need the courage to go in and sort it out rather than chest beating in there caves. - maybe you should read what i said barry, he will have to use the whips.
many seats are being lost at the next election due to boundary changes blue will be fighting blue over the lesser numbers of seats.
the grass roots are totally eurosceptic and expect their representatives to be the same.
their will be blood spilt over this one with the m.p.'s trying to decide who frightens them the most, their local voters or the whips. - You still do not get it Howard. You seem to suggest that it is a bad thing to whip against the referendum.
The anti-EU cause is best served by not having an in/out referendum so the whips have to be used to push for the renegotiation option. That is the route out and the true anti-EVU route for the thinkers. Yes the grass roots are very anti EU and the situation will need to be explained and most will accept the facts but will want and demand action on that renegotiation. - barry a referendum without the whip would be a fair way to do it.
let the public deside as well. - UKIP is campaigning for an immediate referendum on the EU, for us to leave the EU. No-one in UKIP ever said that we would not be trading with European countires once free of EU interference.
- You will lose that referendum much as I would like to think it would be won. Utterly mad, like putting all your assets on a single lottery number.
That is one throw of the dice that we cannot afford to bet everything on. We need to be a lot clever than that to get out. - barryw
couln't sleep so read your blog
you won't win tat argument bruv - barry
you seem to have a lot of misplaced optimism in your grass roots members.
the honourable members know that and will push for a referendum, if the whips bully them out of it then they are likely to wave goodbye to their hitherto safe seats. - The EU debate will be Monday, it has been urgently reviewed as top priority. The Governor of the Bank of England, Mervyn King, has said that time is running out for the economy, and that some EU countries and banks are bankrupt.
He specifically used the term bankrupt, which shocked people.
Barry, your view on delaying a referendum are likely to be ignored now. We can't afford it. UKIP has won! - If UKIP gets its way we will end up locked into the failing inefficient EU superstate. They only impact they have ever had is to split the anti-EU lobby and benefit the EU.
Howard - it seems to me that you do not understand the Conservative Party membership at all. Of course there will always be one or two who will never see sense and logic but the majority are much brighter than that. - Barry, if the Tories vote on Monday in favour of staying in the EU, I doubt many people will vote for them.
It will probably be the demise of the Conservative Party. - No Alex - the Conservatives should be looking to get a renegotiation of our terms of membership. The aim being to get an arrangement like the Swiss have, outside the structures of the EU. That put to a referendum would be accepted where an out vote would fail.
- barry,you cant re define our eu contract from outside,you can only do that from within the eu.
- I can't follow you, Barry, on the point concerning Switzerland, which is not a member of the EU and never has been.
If we get a situation like that of Switzerland, it would mean leaving the EU.
So where's the difference? - Alexander/Brian - you are getting the point if you just think.
We renegotiate our relationship with the EU that effectively gets us outside the organisation in the same relationship as the Swiss. that is put to a referendum not an in/out vote. It is an important difference as you will be asking for a vote on a positive known, not what some might regard as a scary unknown.
If the EU does not play ball then they are lining us up for a in/out vote and providing evidence of their unreasonable behaviour. In that instance HMG would be asking for support and a mandate for its negotiating position, again a positive vote that would have a better chance of support. - "If the EU does not play ball then they are lining us up for a in/out vote and providing evidence of their unreasonable behaviour."
And the government will be jolly cross. - I have long anticipated your catharsis Barry. You are, at last, coming clean.
The advent of Democracy is very like the Marriage Vows and can be summed-up as "Oh all right then(fingers crossed)."
Many still cling to the happy notion of Kingship and you are one such.
To my mind it is this riding of two horses that leads to the democratic-deficit you so bemoan.
The "old, outdated concept of..." Is part of this misunderstanding or wanton neglect of the basic principle of a true Democracy. Clearly this maxim was never one to be followed by those, such as yourself, who remain 'loyal' to the notion of Monarchy-Mollification and who feel, in all ways, the better for being in the shade of a Celestially Conferred Crown.
Added to this is the realisation of the Baron's Deficit. Royalty wont quite do. Lowly origins and all that. You were not born to 'be', through no fault of your own. But, how to square this circle?
So, the likes of you have substituted a far more pliable, malleable and portable commodity, "MONEY" to be your god-head. Your font of all the esteem a man could ask for.
And here is the rub!
Upstart-Nationhood has yet a voice. A small voice in today's terms, but a niggling presence that you and your ilk could do (rather more well) without.
Anyway! The Brass-new-world you cry out for is, to almost all intent and purpose, with us now.
Take the tax-dodging millionaires out of Parliament and with them the greedy self serving wannabes and we'd have room enough to house all the Gypsies. ;)
How might your argument run if you replaced your fanciful Net-Taxation/Benefit qualification with 'taxes as a proportion of income'?
The answer to all of this is of course the total embracing of "One Man One Vote", and the belated realisation that Democracy IS the only way.
If only the Politicians of today were to truely embrace the effort to cater for and to strive for the common-weal instead of bigging themselves up and applying all their industry toward their own future earnings.
- No economic problem will be solved by giving rich people an extra vote or three.
Barry, the people who now are in government won't introduce the spending and financing changes you propose, they won't make a constitution on how much politicians can decide is spent in the economy.
Perhaps in a campaign running up to the next General Election a party will present a well-publicised programme on how finances are gathered and spent at State and local level, and how firms and businesses pay tax and to which authority they pay it.
You mention the EU, but it is better to let European countries sort out their own situation, and we keep to our economy.
- the problem is that many super rich pay absolutely no tax, maybe we should take away the one vote that they do have.
at the lowest level people who choose a life on benefits normally do not vote at all, so barry's plan comes across as a non starter. - Howard - first of all you are wrong about what you describe as the 'super rich' - there are very few of these people and if they pay no tax in the UK then it is because they are domiciled abroad for tax purposes. If we want these people to be domiciled here and pay tax here then we should ensure that we have low taxes. Low tax rates means more tax revenue gets collected.
That though is beside the point.
This is not about the super rich, this is not about people who do not pay tax, as everyone who is British should have a vote in our elections.
This is about instilling financial responsibility back into to political classes who have created this financial crisis and all those before.
If we do that then we all benefit.
A more successful economy will emerge from a more restrained and responsible fiscal policy. A larger more prosperous economy means that there would be more cash and tax revenue that can be collected without being financially irresponsible, the same slice from a bigger cake means more to eat! In that way government can spend more cash on health, education, benefits or whatever as the result of economic success not by punishingly high taxation that limits economic growth and contributes to a financial crisis.
On reflection though I think £10k would be too high a figure to have the sobering effect intended as only about 10% of the population would pay that much tax.
A better figure would be £6,000 in tax and NI payments. Then over 40% of the population would be covered and that really would make politicians think.
- just to make a point on baz's view on public spending if we take baz's view of cutting public spending to 30% this woulsd lead i'm sure thousands upon thousands of jobs all who at present would be spending in the economy in so many ways.
instead these would be added to the ever increasing unemployed nearly 3 million already, a price worth paying? i don't think so
what do others think? - Keith - typical simplistic Labour analysis. Every job in the public sector costs a job in the private sector. We need to reduce the burden on business and learn the lessons that the more successful economies have for us.
- Barry, there are quite a few public sector jobs that I believe are weighing down the Treasury expenses. The Royalty have a very large household guard, this costs money, but do they really need to be surrounded by so many guards?
- If you want to make politicians really take note of the electorate rather than special interest groups then we need to
a) ban political donations from corporate entities including trade unions, charities companies etc
b) state fund political parties based on their share of the popular vote at the last general election
c) reform lobby groups to outlaw any form of inducement in kind
d) make voting a compulsory civic responsibility
- I have to disagree with every one of those Ross None of that will make politicians fiscally responsible.
- Can't disagree with you more, Barry. The majority of Conservative MP's are totally dedicated to the EU, and at the next G.E. the Tory Party will fare accordingly.
Mr. Cameron said from the start, as soon as he became PM, that Turkey should join the EU. The Tory MPs supported him on this.
It's clear for all to see that the majority of Conservative MPs are for a great European super-state. They will never get Britain out of the EU.
UKIP will do this! The Tory Party is about to split up. - Good god Alexander - you are so far out of touch with your comments that you might as well be living on the moon.
You clearly have absolutely no idea about feelings in the Conservative Party and frankly seem to exist in some UKIP dream world of your own.
The sooner UKIP start seeing the world as it is then the sooner they will give up the ghost and stop undermining those of is who are serious about getting out of the EU madhouse. - Then why did the PM only last year ask Turkey to join the EU?
- a very good point alex, i am not sure that dave himself knows what he is saying sometimes.
- LOL - Turkey admission to the EU has been discussed for a lot of years utterly ridiculous to say the DC 'asked them to join', he said he would support their membership application, but there is still a long way to go with that and personally I am against it.
That is desperate of you and utterly irrelevent to the UK's place in the EU. - Barry, you are evidently unaware of David Cameron's EU policy.
On 7th June 2011, PM Cameron and the Romanian President Traian Basescu gave a joint statement:
"We have agreed today on a programme of joint work between our two countries to promote economic growth in the European Union, to enlarge it to the Western Balkans, Turkey and the Republic of Moldova..."
Barry, stand up and face reality, Dave Cameron is totlly committed to the EU, totally and irrevocably, and wants EU expansion to Turkey, Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Macedonia, Albania, Moldova and any place I forgot, my Spannish fails me at the moment.. ah yes, Montenegro. - Do not be silly Alexander - different issues.
- I think a few matters need clarifying here. Firstly it's an established fact that David Cameron, whatever utterances he makes, is indeed a committed europhile. There is no point in beating about the bush about this. Honesty is the best policy especially where such a contentious issue is concerned. It's cards on the table time.
Although he didn't "ask" Turkey to join the EU he has made it perfectly plain in a speech in July last year that he would "fight for Turkey's membership". Much the same as Major's policy of "widening not deepening the EU" this is fact. It appears that his enthusiasm is linked to trade. Hmmn, they all say that don't they as voters in the EU referendum well remember.
I happen to think that this particular referendum debate is at best ill-judged and ill-timed. Since coming to power the coalition have signed up to a multitude of EU rules and regulations with not even a whimper from most backbench conservative mp's.
Of course we shall hear the cry that "it's a coalition government" as a reason for any impotency in this regard but that record is scratched beyond useful playback. It just melts into the usual background noise and hubbub of a rabble of self-serving politicians talking to one another in a crowded room. - shrewd post philip, the issue is not about trade.
the percentage of our trade with the e.u has not changed since we joined the 6 all those years ago.
we hear all the bluster from dave, william an even our barry
at least the reds and yellows are honest about the subject. - It's hard to figure out what Barry is trying to get over to us.
My last post here shows clearly that PM Cameron said four months ago that he is committed to EU expansion to all the countries of the western Balkans, Moldova and Turkey.
So, am I being silly?
IF Cameron is at the same time implying that he is eurosceptic, then he's surely playing a double game!
One thing is for sure, the PM is concerned in getting at least 7 countries into the EU.
So Barry's claims that the Conservatives will get us out of the EU just do not fit together at all. - Alexander - yes you are being very foolish tying up two separate issues. Cameron is no Europhile but he is holding together an coalition with a Europhile party and has to suck up to coalition, not Conservative, policies. What is important is to work towards our renegotiation which cannot come until the Conservatives win an overall majority and then you will have the most Eurosceptic parliament and government since our accession. Then there would be no excuses.
- barry,that in short is a cop out,he either goes forth and signs up compleatly or gets us out and upsets the europhiles of the lib/dems.
- The real world of politics does not work that way Brian. Priority must be to get the economy working again for this parliament and after the next election, with an overall Conservative majority the European question will be a big one to get answered and there will be no excuses then. Feeling are strong against the EU now and by then they will be irresistible.
- give over barry,dc and co are to scared to upset there coilition partners,and thats the bear faced facts for you.
- You have by-passed the declaration of the PM, Barry. He said that his priorities are to solve the problems of Europe and the eurozone and to expand the EU.
He won't get our economy working again. - Alexander - the economy is being held back by the European sovereign debt and Euro crisis. Solving that problem is one thing needed to get our own economy moving again.
Besides - it is the European countries that must solve their own problems, take an axe to their spending a break up the Euro.
As far as our economy goes I have said what needs to be done before, more spending cuts, chop red tape, cut taxes, particularly business taxes. - barry you are wrong,its the goverment thats holding this country back not europe.
the reason being as follows.
1,vat to high.
2,to much red tape.
3,inport/export tax to high.
4,banks are strangerling small firms.
5,inflation to high.
the goverment controlls all the above,so needs to sort tham as soon as possable.otherwise we will be another greece. - No Brian - the government does not control all of that.
VAT is not an issue but, yes that is dictated by government but would you rather see more spending cuts instead?
I agree too much red tape, we had 13 years of Labour piling this on and the present government must do more to cut it. That's the first time I have heard you criticise Labour by the way...
Import taxes - come off it, you are pro EU and these are determined by them and international agreements. Blimey, so are you now also criticising the EU too, wonders never cease.
I have to disagree about the banks as well. I am no fan of them but they came in for a lot of stick for dodgy lending and are you therefore suggesting they should carry on doing that.
Inflation - I address that in the blog. This is not controlled by government, no-one controls it, the BoE have the job of trying to do so. - barry,a cut in vat would help to kick start gdp,15% would be a nice option.
inport/export taxs,the uk could stop enforcing them.
banks could/should lend more and helf firms gather pace and export more thus helping the gpd.
dont blame labour for tory doings.
- The good news...we will get out of it.
So;
Nothing lasts forever?
A tunnel wouldn't be a tunnel, but for the light at the end of it?
No gain without pain?
Perhaps we should have a slow-gun competition?
Time was, when the nation was arse-up across the knee of superior authority, in lip-nibbling anticipation of the 'character-building' exercise that was about to befall us, we would hear the Olympian empathetic-announcement;
"This hurts me more than it hurts you."
This is no longer the case. We now must lie across one another's knee and in turns deliver unto our very selves the admonition, for the amusement of the culpable...and like it!
All effort is not to get out of it, but to get back to it. Back to exactly the same place, the same mind-set and the same conditions we enjoyed prior to the lie being discovered.
Our emergence from this debacle is set for no sooner than the time when we may look back to the 1990's as a Golden Age. And then do the whole thing again, again. What apain. - I dont think public opinion would sustain a series of further deeper cuts from Osborne BarryW. Some families have been cut to the quick already and Osborne has not as yet sparked any form of recovery with the pursuit of these austerity measures. We were promised huge numbers of private sector jobs but it hasnt happened. There have been some its true but not enough...cuts to womens part time jobs, and cuts to womens public sector jobs being savage, and being the worst...hence Cameron's slip in the women-related Polls. His halo has slipped a long way with the female voter.
Cameron did mention favourably a whole series of companies that were expanding today during PMQ's..what was interesting though was that the ones he mentioned were all foreign..expanding car manufacturers for example. Clearly the way forward is in attracting foreign manufacturers. Its worth being very aware that its a global game now...the jobs come from abroad. - baz;
i think you will find brian is both supportive and critical on a range of issues and the labour party.
i don't think he holds any strong views towards any particular party(probably dislikes one more than the others lol)
i think paulb latest post is near the truth, he didnt mention on prime ministers question time a couple of women questioned barryw's dave on his statement on women.
dave continues to walk a tighrope, not long before he falls - PaulB - it is a matter of economic necessity. If people want more secure jobs, if people want to avoid a series of never ending crisis, if people want better public services then we have to lift the burden on the private sector by cutting public spending. It is a matter of short term pain for long term gain, the alternative is worse. Leadership is needed to explain to people that they have been living a debt fuelled fantasy of unsustainable public spending that has to end. We must cut it back to a level that can be sustained and from which it can grow again alongside a growing economy. People need to learn that a smaller public sector slice from a bigger cake must be the way forward.
- Barry, you say that the euro will break up and that this is essential for a recovery in the eurozone and Britain.
But all the eurozone governments are strictly against this and are doing everything (financially) to prevent the euro breaking up.
So no recovery, then! - i fail to see where the long term gain is coming from, there is less and less money moving around the economy, jobs are going and people are spending their savings on basic things.
there is no absolutely no sign of how or where a recovery is coming from.
whilst the governmemt continues spending money on green issues then nothing will improve in the average household. - Alex - the European crisis is certainly holding back recovery but it does not mean no recovery at all, it just means more difficult and slower.
Howard - recovery will be derived only from successful businesses that can compete on the international stage. Businesses in the UK are like an athlete trying to run a race carrying a weight that is 110% of their own body weight while Far eastern competitors are just carrying about 50% of their body weight. That weight is the dreadful burden that our public sector places on them.
To win we must relieve them of that weight - BAZ;
Taking your view of cutting public spending to 30%
would im sure mean the loss of thousands upon thousands of jobs?
this means those presently earning a wage will no longer be helping the economy by there spending.
with nearly 3 million unemployed how many more can the country afford to put on the dole.
we have also seen the inner city riots where as reg says people see no way out, no job prospects poverty etc
what cost 4 million on the dole by your ideas? - Barry, if Cameron writes off a cheque at the EU crisis summit, for us to pay, would that not be the last swipe at any form of economic recovery here in the UK?
- Keith - High public spending is costing jobs in the productive sector where we need them most. There must be a rebalance away from public spending for the long term benefit of everyone. |The alternative is just to go from crisis to crisis and no-one's job will ever be safe even in the public sector. It must be dramatically cut back.
This cannot be done overnight, it will take years to get there and during that process the private sector will take up the slack while the recovery gets under way.
You talk as if it would be done overnight. It wont and cant be done that way. - Interesting view baz so i presume that means you are happy to see 4 million on the dole? whilst your correct it wont happen overnight you would like it to.
to have 4 million on the dole has serious implications apart from these geezers not paying into the economy, it also has the effect on run down communities, no hope for the future, no jobs,
the list is endless
maybe not the best route? - No Keith - the best way to avoid 4million on the dole is a long term fix to the economy rather than just toying with it and for that we must reduce the burden that the state places on business.
You, like all left wingers, place far too much faith on state spending rather than the businesses that create the tax revenues that pay for that state spending. We must change the balance to a more sustainable economy so our businesses can compete in the world markets. - BAZ;
I think others have posted on the lack of private jobs promised
so that arument is not holding much water at the moment.
you also havn' realy addressded the issue of throwing 4 million on the dole, and the problems this will cause in so many other ways - I have told you straight, it will not happen overnight and as recovery happens the private sector will create more jobs and the more you lighten the public sector burden the faster that recovery will be.
The simple fact is that the public sector is far too big and must absolutely must be cut back or the alternative will be more job losses.
It does not take a genius to see that when you place a massive burden on someone they will struggle and if you want to help them you must remove the burden. There is no other way, public sector money is only taken from the wealth generated by the private sector and then spent inefficiently. - Barry, the EU leaders of Germany, France and Britain, and a few others, plus some EU officals, have just decided to wipe away 50 billion euro owed to the banks by the Greek treasury.
Adding to detracting this enormous sum from the banks' accounts, they have ordered the banks to increase their available capital by 106 billion euro by June 2012.
They also seem to be about to print 1 trillion euro from scratch.
Will this not lead to massive bank-bankruptcy and soaring inflation?
Camers and Osborne were there, in Brussels, to partake in this decree.
How can free trade and commerce function like that? If the banks fall now, the whole private sector will fall with them.
Doesn't all this EU Politburo decision-making put a spanner in all that you have been advocating for the economy and for an end to Big Government?
If that isn't Big Government what they did in Brussels last night, interfereing in the private sector, then tell me what is? - Alexander. It is not the doomsday you suggest but it certainly is not a real solution. Once again the EU fudges and is just buying time and in doing so is creating more problems.
- barry,you old cynic you.its a start for the eu,yet to be fine tuned.
- This is a significant moment for the EU. Apart from the financial crises, which appears to be on the way to being at least partially solved...but apart for the financial aspect, the EU itself is on the verge of splitting into two tiers. You can clearly see this development.
The Eurozone will be the big player, moving ever closer together, and those not in the euro will occupy the second tier. David Cameron seems happy to be on the second tier, succumbing to the desires of his eurosceptic party members, but is it the right place to be?
We have seen him huffing and puffing about in Brussels this week, but all the while looking highly marginalised and highly irrelevent with regard to influencing whats going on at the top table. In my view thats not a good place to be..on the outside.
I dont know about you but I would rather be in the actual driving seat, especially if we are hovering anywhere near a precipice. - The problems are not solved any more than an asprin cures cancer. They have simply bought time and parked the problems for a bit. The fundamental problems of excessive government spending, debt and the shortcoming of the Euro and the problems it is causing are still there. They seem to be making a gesture towards getting some spending under control but history throws doubt on whether this will produce the results needed.
No-one serious would suggest that we should ever join the Euro. If we were members I guarantee that we would be struggling worse than we are and you could add an extra million to our unemployed.
More than ever recent events shows that we would be better off getting out of the whole failing and doomed EU experiment. - barry,taking two [2] asprin daily helps to prvent certain types of cancer reshearch has shown.after a 5 year study from some uni up north has proved.so there,and keep up to speed.
- barry,why not join,see that were going under as it is.then we could get a bailout like greese and the other countrys.
- the whle eu deal was based on dealing with the greece problem and assumes that once they are sorted then all will be hunky dory.
the problem is that portugal is heading exactly the same way despite austerity measures. they are heading rapidly to a situation of public and private debt reaching 360% of g.d.p. even worse than greece.
spain is going steadily in the same direction with unemployment rising yet again and the deficit rising. - You can add Italy to the list too Howard.
Brian - it does not cure it! - italy is not as bad barry, public debt is a major problem, not so private debt.
apparently the average italian does not have a large mortgage and does not run up credit card arrears.
according to sources the european central bank think that them and ireland are on the right lines for eventual recovery. - But public debt - sovereign debt - is THE problem in these economically weak counties. They all have a record of loose fiscal policy leading to the present problems. We would be in the same boat if not for Osborne's far too modest measures.
- barry,it gives a 60% better chance of not contracting it.you can all about in the lancet.
england is becoming a weak country as well. - Barry, wait for the stock and commodity prices to rise as a result of money-printing!
That will trigger off real-time inflation. - QE always does that Alexander as I have pointed out before.
- "it has always been about levelling down to the lowest possible common denominator."
Well, whoever is delving down to the nadir of society he is sure to meet you there Barry.
Who had heard of this Red fellow and his debating point until you dredged him up? He is either a brave man or he has but one argument to make, whichever is the case he could have found himself an easier audience if all he wanted to do was to harp-on about the contents of an historical Manifesto. He and his co-proposers must have had some valid points to make just the same for I have copied out below the beginning of the speech made by one of the opposing team, Toby Young...
"I want to start by agreeing with the honourable members on the other side. The fact that only seven per cent of the British population attended independent schools, yet 75% of judges, 70% of finance directors and 45% of top civil servants have been privately educated is iniquitous. Unquestionably, private schools have a good deal to answer for when it comes to the preservation of the English class system. I share the belief on the other side of this house that we need to do something about this. I went to three state schools. I’ve just set up a school in West London that I regard as a comprehensive in the true sense of the word. If we want more equality of opportunity in this country, something has to be done to level the playing field. Social justice, not to mention our economic well-being, demands it. We all agree about all of that..."
Of course, levelling-up will cost more and if the signal outcome of this were to be increased competition for those who think themselves ordained to lead by virtue of their monied parents such invective as you supply is the only counter argument.
As another on Toby's team had enjoyed much of what Private Education had to offer the fact that he failed to complete his studies has not held him back. Maybe there is more to this than the education aspect. Perhaps this Red fellow is merely 'uppity'? - barryw
if im honest i have no idea who the brennan guy is
and watching blair of old and the present labour party i see no moves in the direction that brennan wishes.
to have a balanced view is always the best way in these discussions rather than i know everything and because i disagree its all rubbish they speak, type of attitude does very little for debate.
in reality the labour party in general has moved a long way from these types of manifesto issues, you only have to look at blair
when put on the spot he didn't oppose private schools/grammar schools, so like the conservative party the labour party is a broad church of views,
and some minority causes which is brennans view still are able to have there say, but unlikely to get past the manifesto writers.
baz if you need to harp back to 1983 you realy are struggling - He was a Minister under Brown Keith and is a Shadow Education Minister now, helping formulate Labour's policy. That is what is significant here.
- thats how well known he is lol
but have to be honest i dont follow whos in what position these days.
watch when it comes to the crunch
they all bottle out. - I think Tom and Barry both have a point. Let's not level it down,let's level it up.
State students provide an income to a school of around £4k a year, private costs run at an average of around £14k but going up to £30k. Bearing in mind many private schools are registered charities(!), they also make many savings state schools cannot.
We should not be looking at getting rid of independent schools but raising the state student premium to the level set by 'the market'. This money could make a massive difference, ultimately reducing class sizes.
Then people like this will have nothing to complain about. - Well you know how these debates go...one side puts forward a position and the others argue against it. Doesnt mean it would have anything to do with Labour policy. The way the party has modernised now its impossible to imagine that those old working class cloth cap revolutionary ideals would get any kind of airing at all. We see ultra middle class types running the party from Tony Blair to Harriet Harmon, who is actually a Countess I believe but keeps it well hidden...so no chance.
We have great schools here in Kent, of all varieties.. so hands off!. Even Conservative Leader of KCC Paul Carter defended them from being interefered with by the current government recently...and that was from his own side of the political equasion, so well done him. He was returned following a leadership challenge recently with an even bigger majority. His stance on the schools gave him a huge boost.
An indication of how unpopular it would be to interfere negatively with the Schools of Kent. - Well it appears that the government are set to throw away £1 billion on kick-starting the economy. Amongst the plans are two power stations in Yorkshire.
Well if my instinct is correct these "power" stations are to be hailed as green power stations. If indeed they are then this is a textbook case for students of government waste and hubris.
I have seen no details but I suspect they will be carbon capture power stations. If this is indeed the case then it really is game over for the UK. You may as well kiss goodbye to any hope of averting a recession and longer term decline in our country.
Vote Tory and get the green party.
Someone please let it not be a carbon capture station.
Dear Jim, please can you fix it for me to wake up from this nightmare of odd people in charge of my country trying to play God with the weather. - Shale gas, coal (without carbon sequestration which is an impossible technology), gas and nuclear.
Simple really. - And of course Tony Benn aka Anthony Wedgwood-Benn was also Viscount Stansgate.
- Barry, that's why I have been making projects for a research centre in Dover on how to supply clean water and obtain energy from renewable sources.
The new world order will have to find alternative ways to relying on energy production and clean water.
For now it's on the drawing table, all rather scientific, but the plans are there... - Clearly, we could do no better in the short term than instigate a wide ranging cull of pet cats & dogs. These are an unconscionable drain on the country's energy resources.
Or!
We could wean these pets off dry food. - "...a weak government failing to provide leadership when needed. Greece is in the position it is in entirely because its government failed to mend their sieve-like tax system and failed to control their spending at a reasonable level."
Greece is not alone with any of this.
When, oh when. Is anybody going to talk about earning?
We suffered too, from a weak Parliament. With the Partys either content or frustrated at the amount of 'good news' available on-tap, but individually pleased-as-Punch that things, although heading for the crapper, were going well for them as individuals. [As I have said before.]
Ever since Thatcher and her drooling over all things Global our Parliament and our successive (G)governments think themselves major players and just so long as they continue to convince themselves that this is so things will only worsen.
The only way out of all of this, as I have said before, is that the wealth accrued MUST be reintroduced into the Global Economy. NOT for China to be overly compensated for 'loans' and the yet unborn burdened, but for China to realise that the rest of the world can get by without them. So, through being cheaper and thus attractive to monies extracted from the economies of the nations, like our own, that are now suffering it must now put cheap money back into those same economies or lose it's customer base. I can understand their reticence to further enrich the few, as with our own and much of the West's economic model, but nevertheless if Europe and the US continue to play this game of cut, cut, cut without any means of earning China will be left without a market for it's goods.
Naturally, once we have cracked the nuclear-fusion problem, found a cure for ageing and learned how to turn our excrement into gold we shall again become world leaders.
In the mean-time...... - Yes Tom - they are indeed not alone in this. I have said many times that government is THE problem, their overspending profligate ways are coming home to roost.
No crackpot theories please, the only way to correct overspending and excessive borrowing is to cut spending, create a budget surplus and repay debt. It cannot be done overnight, it is a medium to long term strategy and involves economic growth as well, so tax cuts need to be built into the structure as well plus all those other things left-wingers hate so much that help businesses.
Ultimately as I have said before we need to get government spending in the UK down to 30% of GDP or less rather than 53% as now. - The whole of the EU is falling apart,and if we are not carefull it will take us with it. Time to get out now,and get back to standing on our own to feet.
- If we left the EU today, our job-centres would start emptying, hundreds of thousands of British people would be getting a job within weeks.
Within months, there would be at least a million vacant jobs. - Not true Alexander. Sadly too many of our unemployed are simply unemployable regardless of all the other issues. This would not be any kind of instant panacea much as I would like to claim that...
- abolutely nothing would change overnight if that occurred.
it will take years of legal wrangling to dismantle the present e.u. too many riding the gravy train to give up their jobs without a fight. - The traditional Greek response is a military coup. I predict it will happen between Xmas and New Year.
- Barry, youth unemployment is at over 20% in Britain. Are you suggesting that these young people are written off according to the Conservative Party?
Surely the Tories would not enter an election campaign saying: "too many of our unemployed are simply unemployable."
If they did, they would lose outright!
People with no experience of work cannot be called unemployable, but the private-sector attitude of many factory employers doesn't want to give them a chance, because an experienced person working for a minimim wage that is three times higher than in their own country will inevitably work faster.
But by all means, if the Tory Party has written off so many young people of our own Country, as did Labour, than go ahead... better to get the tin open in time for the next G.E., so we all know where we stand.
I doubt many would vote for the Tories if they knew their unemployed son or grandaughter has been already written off. - It is a simple fact that too many are unemployable but that is not to say they all are Alex. Do calm down!
- Peter, you may be right and the sacking of the top brass in Greece shows that the government is very worried about that.
The implications for stability in that part of the world are massive. Chaos in Greece has huge implications and the (new) generals could well step in as they look at what could happen if they don't. An impotent Greek government will change the power balance in the Eastern Med and that alone would be enough for the generals to step in.
Look at Cyprus? Turkey can see the mess of the EU currently and are likely to see the folly of joining, at least for now and may well turn their eyes back on Cyprus. We have peace keeping troops there with the UN of course.
This is serious stuff. - barry,1 word, poppycock.
- Barry, some parts of Cyprus are British territory: Dhekelia and Akrotiri.
- Yes, British bases. Look at your history Alexander. British bases did not stop the last Turkish invasion in the 1960s and that is why Cyprus is partitioned today.
- The Turkish invasion of Cyprus was 1974, Barry.
- The Greek situation is changing from minute to minute. They are completely in a muddle not only with the European Union, the Eurozone, but internally as well. Sadly their Prime Minister is suffering from the rigours of stress and eternal discussion. Clearly to call for a referendum immediately after the recent major agreement was a poor decision and has annoyed everyone, annoying all those working for the survival of the Euro. The Markets liked that agreement and rose solidly, resulting in a very big rise in the month of October. The best month for several years on the markets.
Then November came and all fell again as a result of the Greek PMs dithering. I can see what he was trying to do ..looking for a people's mandate...but...too late.
I dont think at the highest level anyone is forecasting the demise of the Euro. Sure its going through difficult times, who could deny it, and there may well be major adjustments to membership, but in the longer term it will be too costly to see it collapse...too costly for everybody including non Euro members of the EU.
The foreign Minister from Poland was on TV the other night late, and his country is still keen to join the Euro. So there is still considerable faith in the Euro as an idea. - i had to smile yesterday listening to asian counries complaining that the eurozone could bring them down.
for the last 4 decades we have had first japan, then the pacific rim and now china employing all sorts of proctectionism to grind the western economies down.
what goes around comes around. - No Howard - not so, the advantage they have is a better balance between private and state. Even 'Red' China has a lower proportion of state spending to GDP than the UK, in fact its about half of the UK level.
Asia, like us is being affected by the Eurozone crisis as we trade with the Eurozone and they, like us, need customers. That is the problem we all have. It is in all our interests for the Eurozone to get a grip and stop putting sticking plasters over their wounds and start dealing with the fundamental problems of excessive government spending and the Euro straightjacket. - barry
i can remember clearly when japanese people started getting money in their pockets and wanted to purchase luxury goods from abroad. range rovers were much desired, so the japanese customs decided to strip one out of 10 entering the country down to the last nut and bolt. the profit margin was about 10% hence an export market lost for the then british leyland.
nowadays the chinese keep an artificial currency rate that keeps them in control of events, all protectionism. - Howard - there is truth in that regarding Japan, not sure about China (former 'red' China that is) but the Far East is a lot more than just those...
But the EU gets up to tricks like that. Not so long ago there were some restrictions on the places where DVDs could be imported from outside the EU (in France). They had one qualified person to conduct required tests and this stifled supply, creating a bottle-neck.
We overburden our businesses with excessive red tape and taxes that our competitors do not have. That is the biggest problem. - " OK, perhaps they are victims of their trade unions, being led up the garden path by them..."
What of the broad, easy and seemingly gently sloping; if ill lit path?
I read of one, little reported, yet key facts regarding our government's proposed NHS pension reforms.
The scraping of the protected pension scheme now in place.
The Private Companies that take over NHS services are currently obliged to offer equivalent pension schemes to the staff they take on, but with the removal of this obligation they will be able to underbid in-house teams. There will not be a level playing field and it will be so much easier to break up and privatise the NHS.
"Divide and drool!"
How will the sheep in the Private Sector feel after the dismantling of the NHS is complete, knowing that they had been so easily duped into crying out for supposed 'pension-parity'? Only to discover that they too have insufficient funds and/or insurance to get the treatment they need. All the while paying-in to provide profit before prescription?
As the voice-over in that garden might have been...
"How do you like them apples?" - I have posted about the NHS before Tom and I advocate privatising it and adopting the continental style of insurance system. But that is besides the point, this is about pensions and the current public sector pensions are unaffordable and unjustifiable these days.
- Dave has been let loose with a strimmer, he's cancelling child benefits to millions of children and cutting back the public sector pensions, he's having a go at the public sector jobs, cutting Council budgets by 40%...must be enjoying it!
- We have learned recently how much cheaper it is in China to kill rather than to maim and how acceptable it is to walk around the slight inconvenience of a body in the street.
We know too that in China what the state wants the state gets. As with the Olympic Stadia etc.
We know that the 'health service' in China shall collapse just as soon as the Tigers, Rhinos and many other endangered species are killed off.
We know also that what we know of China is, by and large, just what the government of China wants us to see.
I wonder how many days wages it costs to travel by train in China?
[it is estimated that at present there are around 30,000,000 people living as slaves, many of them in China]
Naturally China is already the go-to-guy when cheap labour is sought and the people of China are there only for the convenience of the government-machine. They certainly can put a (small) price on any life. Here they have a great deal in common with the Anglo-Saxon. In that in their evolving from a totalitarian monarchic past many of the more juicy aspects of such a form of 'government' live-on. There, as it is here in the UK, the populace are mere subjects/tools/live-stock.
Yes indeed. The Chinese are Tories at their core.
Unfortunately given the trouble they have with Ls & Rs for them 'Tory' becomes Toley.
The word 'toley' in Scotland is slang for shit.
So...you're back on form Barry. - Barry, don't think that China is donating the money: they will want it back with the interest.
If the Chinese had kept to Mao's invectives, they wouldn't give fish to poor Europe, but a fishing rod.
My view is: give healthy people free food, and they'll do nothing. Give them a spade, and they'll dig their own garden and have food.
Now back to Mao: how will the EU repay the money to the Bank Of China, Barry?
There are more sovereign debts in Europe than all the tea in China. - Sorry to disappoint but don't expect China to bail us out. They look at events here and the west with disdain and to some small extent who can blame them? On the other hand China is a command economy and is destined to implode some time soon. Inflation, a massive property bubble and lower growth especially with the west and it's problems spells bad news all round.
Prepare yourselves for a global depression. Watch out for a run on the banks once the balloon goes up.
This is not scaremongering but as they say, those who panic first panic best.
Good luck to all. - You are over-pessimistic Philip, yes there are going to be more problems ahead but there are solutions but the self-interested and vain politicians are not facing up to what is needed, big spending cuts and a break up of the Euro.
Alexander. Of course it will have to be paid back and of course interest has to be paid and of course it will all be in vain. A bail-out is not the fundamental solution that will really address the core problems. - the chinese have no choice but to bail europe out, without europe buying from them they are out on a limb.
their factories will be just producing stuff to sit in warehouses that they do not have.
their population is driven by improving living standards, they now have spare money in their pockets - they will not accept it coming to a halt.
as for their governmnent moralising about our labour laws, that rather sums them up - The point is that the fund manager (not the government) was spot on.
- To suggest that I'm over pessimistic is to stick your head in the sand Barry.
This situation is more serious than even Cameron is willing to face up to. He is either in denial or keeping us all in the dark and knows exactly what is going on. I suspect the former.
Once Italy fails the contagion will spread like wildfire and will envelope every developed nation overnight. There will be a run on the banks because banks are exposed to the huge debt bubble they helped to create. Nobody will be spared least of all we poor savers.
Why do you think so much of our money has been used to prop up failing banks? Who do you think is expendable in all of this? Why us of course, the little people.
Personally I have made provisions for my savings to be at hand and available at the first opportunity so that at least I am able to withdraw whatever savings I have. Once the balloon goes up I shall use some to buy gold which is certain to rise.
Why do you think Santander has launched it's revolutionary new three year bond which pays any profit up front? I can only assume that that way there is no way any investors can retrieve the capital if a crisis comes upon us. Well that's my theory anyway.
As an aside it was interesting watching Panorama highlighting this government's ridiculous energy policy or lack of.
Blimey once the BBC spot a three legged dog you know the game's up. - A tip Philip - don't buy something when it is at a record high price as gold is, buy cheap.
The collapse of the Euro will spark economic recovery after the initial shocks and a period of adjustment. - barry,agree with your first line,tottaly disagree with your second line.
- That is what he said so if you are disagreeing with 'what I said in the second line' are you disagreeing that he said it? There is plenty of substantial evidence, City AM, A Jazeera, Telegraph, Mail etc etc.... You have no basis to say he did not say that Brian.
As I said he is spot on with the analysis I have been giving for years.
But then Brian - we do know that for you everything EU is right and the rest wrong. You will still claim the Euro is wonderful when it is torn apart. - barry,we will find out who's right/wrong in the next 10 years.
if the euro/euro zone is here in 10 years then i'm right,if its not you would be right. - Good to hear Barry.
So..we shall return to the real world;
-Houses can be bought to live in without the thought of a guaranteed profit over time. (no more of the eternal rise in prices)
-Banks and other commercial enterprises will be liable for their own failure.
-No more talk of the only way to profit is to exploit the customers of others that just happen to work for you with an under-regulated employment regime.
-No more tax-evading business models that shy away from paying the money needed to assure them of an educated and healthy customer/employee base.
In short: No more reward for failure. - Tom - Nothing wrong with people making a profit on their homes - there is no such thing as a guaranteed profit.
Of course all businesses including banks should not expect to be bailed out.
You speak as if profit is a dirty word, it is not, we need profit and the more businesses make the more secure jobs are, the more they can grow and expand, the more taxes get paid and we all benefit.
If you want to create more unemployment then more regulation of it is exactly the way to do it. As always your left-wing based solutions are counter productive.
'Tax-evading business models' - well no business or individual should pay more tax than they have to and if idiot governments make the tax code complex they invite way of avoiding tax and that serves them right. Simplify and lower taxes is the best way to getting people to pay them and not avoid them.
Your problem Tom is that you see taxation and all mighty, all knowing, all wise, big spending government as a solution to all our ills. That is rubbish.
Governments are all basically incompetent and the less they do and the less of our money they steal to do it the better. We see now, writ large, the problems governments cause all over Europe. - I've read that Germany has printed D marks in case it comes to an economic crash.
- not surprised alex, nick and angie have been holding private talks for some time, the third largest country, presently led by silvio has not been invited.
says it all really. - Apart from the fact that Italy is on the verge of collapse through debt, Howard, the news about the D.Mark comes from the German "Handelsblatt", the German equivalent of the Financial Times.
Tomorrow, Mrs. Merkel will officially ask a group of experts to look into ways for countries to exit the euro.
However, the news coming through from other experts states that the EU treaties do not leave an option for any single country to operate a euro-exit.
The conclusion reached by the Handelsblatt is that Mrs. Merkel, who knows this, is in reality preparing for the end of the euro, and at the same time the re-introduction of the D Mark, meaning that all eurozone members would each have their own currency.
- I see the Telegraph is following my lead and demanding the abolition of the 50 pence tax rate. This, along with many other measures needs to implemented as soon as possible. Any further delay with sensible, non-class war and environmental economics will do further damage to our economy.
The strange thing is that earlier today Cameron told us how much trade we engage in with Europe and especially Ireland. It's a big world out there outside Europe and why on Earth we are not forging links with those other countries is ridiculous. It seems that we are hamstrung by rules set in Brussels as to who we are allowed to trade with.
Hell, handcart are two words that spring to mind. - Tom
you make some valid points that sadly sailed over barryw's head.
oince somre of these are grasped so much could be saved in financial terms.
- Keith - you really have no idea!
PhilipP - Your lead??????? Many people, myself included, have been saying the 50p rate is foolish right from when Brown introduced it as a purely political measure knowing it would lose money to the Treasury. - Well someone had to tell the world what a stupid idea it was. As soon as I read about the hike I told all my mates down the pub about it. They wouldn't listen though, it was far too near to closing time and I suspect they were all the worse for wear.
Don't see them much now though........you know increased tax hikes on alcohol, smoking ban, cheap supermarket deals.
One of them bumped into me the other day in the high street. Yeah, too much cheap supermarket booze.
Thing is that I've been warning people about a world recession for many years now and they tended to roll their eyes. Their eyes aren't rolling now are they?
If I could spot the signs how is it that those in power were unable to?
I suspect it's because they're all pretty much useless but hey ho big wheel keeps on turning. - fantastic
another of those barryw
you have no idea posts
barryw rules ok lol - Keith - you do put yourself down, we all know its true no need for you to keep reminding people too....LOL
- i am more concerned as to how philip finds the money to frequent pubs.
maybe we need to raise the tax rate to 50% all round, that would put a stop to his game. - Howard, drinking in pubs is now a pastime for the rich or those on benefits. I fall into neither category but a generous donation from your good self would be gladly reciprocated by an equally generous donation to HMRC or whatever the inland revenue call themselves nowadays from my good self.
I must say the last time I drank in a pub a noticeable sucking sounds came involuntarily from the side of my mouth followed by a gentle expletive luckily out of range from the person serving me. Perhaps it was the price of the beer which caused this event, I can't be sure. - ....."Wounded soldiers are to be dismissed from the Army under plans to double the number of personnel being made redundant, a leaked memo discloses".....
Well yes Cameron is certainly keeping to his word that more is to be done for them.
You couldn't make it up. - PhilipP - that is a separate issue. You can only have so many who are unfit for combat, even in the best of time, however much you would love to keep them 'in'. It is their care when they leave the services that is the big issue.
- I also tried bringing this topic up on the Forum some months back, Barry, about war veterans who feel abandoned in society, including those of the Falklands war.
Yes, society should do more for these people, much more than the Establishment has been doing.
Keep up the good work, Barry! - Isn't it ironic that many of our troops, airmen and seamen and thousands of others perished in world war 2 in order to defend our freedom and democracy and yet seventy years later we see democracy torn down in Europe in order to save a currency and political union with not so much of a peep from our government. In fact with their connivance.
World gone mad I tell you. - barryw
as your aware i have just tried to explain (and like others) help you, rather than this
barryw knows best
no one else knows owt type of attitude - Well I think this was an unfortunate attack from MP Patrick Mercer..he said.. among other things..that David Cameron was
"a despicable creature without any redeeming features".
Very unfortunate and very nasty, especially when it comes from your own side.
The Conservative Party is not an easy party to lead. There are core splits right down the middle, particularly with regard to the EU as we often see. Although it stays well buried normally, in recent times with the EU in turmoil, it has all resurfaced again like in those worst days from the past. We suddenly hear the likes of Bill Cash MP being quoted again on a regular basis. He was the one time leader of the Eurosceptics you might remember.
It was a poor time to win an election though. Almost everything that can go wrong is going wrong. And much of it external, not the Prime Ministers fault. He became PM with the world in financial crises. The job market diminishing. EU governments collapsing all around us, wars on several fronts, immigration in chaos, coalition members from the near loony fringe needed to prop him up...and now to top it off, women have gone off him and all. Oh dear!
If Labour could mount a strong opposition the chances are they could win again at the next election, simply because Cameron is currently drinking from a poison chalice. He is almost in a no-win situation with the problems he has to deal with..the cards are stacked against him in so many directions.
I myself think he is actually quite a good leader as leaders go. Very difficult to see who would replace him. Back to Patrick Mercer. He says a leadership challenge will be mounted against Cameron in the Spring. Could our very own predicting guru and soothsayer, young Keefy Sansum, be right after all?? - PaulB - the Conservative Party has never been so united over the EU as every survey of Tory grassroots and MP opinion shows. Those who are pro-EU as it is now, are under 10%.... There are differences of degree as to how far we should go in renegotiations and that is where the valid debate should be. This is a far healthier position than we had under Major where the pro-EU rump held sway. We are all Eurosceptic now.
The problems, as I say, relates to the malign influence of the LibDems in the coalition and tensions are understandable.
I suggest the government opponents should not get too excited about an early general election it is not likely to happen.
As for Keefy, if his predictions were accurate we would be having a general election now!
- surely the back benchers have a right to be peeved with dave, as you say there will be no general election for another 3 and a half years.
nick and chums have far too much influence in the running of the country considering their paltry share of the vote. - If Keith's political punditry had been even 50% accurate in the past, we would now have a majority Labour administration.
- Patrick Mercer also called Dave Cameron: "the worst politician in British history since William Gladstone".
This sort of speech should not be taken as an offence. I've called Dave "the worst admiral in British history since Winston Churchill".
- Actually my heart goes out to David Cameron. He is in a position of complete and utter powerlessness. He is unable to enact any real action for a solution to the financial catastrophe we face in terms of action from a European perspective.
It is inevitable that a Tobin tax will come into force just as it's inevitable that Parliament will, once again, discuss European fisheries policy and wring it's hands but know at the end of the day they are powerless to change the thing one iota.
Mr. Cameron's position on Europe, for all his bleating and speeches to squares in suits telling them that he is a Eurosceptic and will fight our corner is actually merely rubbish of the first water.
His only hope now consists of one of three options:
1. Tell the country that Britain will leave the EU. Once the Tobin tax is brought in we are dead in the water. Our economy is finished. Germany and France are doing this for one reason and one reason only - to destroy our economy.
2. Call a general election now in order to rid him of the gammy leg which is the liberals who too are set to destroy our economy because of their schoolboy political theories. Then this might lead to a proper government and not the sandal wearing, tofu munching mix we have at present.
3. Warn Europe that if they insist on the implementation of the Tobin tax and other measures which will impoverish us We will renege on our treaty commitments signed up to over the past decades. This, an alternative to leaving the EU, will cause such turmoil within the union that pressure from the financial markets and a loss in confidence in Europe that hopefully the whole system and it's politburo will die a death. - Barry, we also have another problem in the tax system, and that is, that minimum wage incomes provide only peanuts in tax to the Treasury.
This must stop!
Minimum wage earners pay next to nothing in tax on their income, but enjoy full benefits when unemployed, full access to NHS and to everything that our services have to offer.
The solution is to offer a higher minimum wage and get our unemployed people to work, even just part-time.
But the Government just sits there and does nothing about it! - A higher minimum wage will lose thousands of jobs, better to get rid of it all together.
If we have to have a minimum wage then I would do the opposite to you - I would raise the tax threshold so that anyone on that wage at 37 hours a week pays no tax and NI. - Even if the State pays a part of the wage, there should be a minimum wage of at least £8 an hour with guaranteed increase to £10 once sufficient experience has been acquired by the worker after several months.
It would mean that the private sector would have to dish out more money, either paying the workers directly the above mentioned sums, or paying more tax to the State so that the State can pay the difference to the workers (ie the difference between £6 and £8-10 an hour).
We cannot afford to have a system of serfdom, where millions of workers are condemned to minimum (£6 an hour) wage all their life long or have to sign on for £67 a week.
The private sector that pays peanuts is at fault, they are the ones who have the same mentality as in the Industrial Revolution. - It's funny how every single person I've ever spoken to who supports the minimum wage has stories of how a local jobbing builder has built, for example, a garden wall for tuppence, well under the minimum wage.
I also find it ironic how those who support this antiquated idea suited only to times of plenty are more than willing to part with their money in pound shops and buy their clothes and other sundry articles at ridiculous prices knowing full well that those involved in the production of those purchases were virtual slaves.
Frankly, it makes me sick. - completely lost me philip, what is the connection between support of the minimum wage and using pound shops?
- What I'm saying is that it's alright for some to insist on the minimum wage in this country and yet forget the plight of those who service the self same people by way of condoning below minimum wage standards on third world countries. When you see the consumables on shelves which cost a pittance to produce it's self evident that those at the bottom of the heap ie. those in factories who knock out these items are not paid a proper living wage.
So those in the public eye who are most vociferous for a minimum wage are being ever so slightly hypocritical whilst they themselves are party to what goes on in sweat shops abroad.
I always remember a friend of mine, many years ago, who did some office work for a few weeks in the offices of the national union of teachers. He was treated appallingly and paid a pittance whilst the big mouths who you always saw on tv at the time spouted their usual lefty nonsense. Double standards much like the rail unions and most other unions in the UK.
- two very different issues here, we have no right to tell another country how they are to treat their workers, besides how can anyone know anything about a product they buy other than the country of origin?
every now and then a report comes out in the press or on the box about a western company buying from exploited labour.
the company in question sees a drop in sales very quickly, claims of hypocricy are very wide of the mark. - philip
it won't surprize to know i don't agree in the slightest on your view on uk trade unions.
- Philip, the only workers in Britain who are not entitled by law to the minimum wage are the self-employed.
I'm one of them!
- I support the minimum wage but still condemn the questionable labour of some major high street names. As a result I tend to steer clear of many thing I perceive to be too cheap. However it is impossible to avoid products that are the result of global capitalism. Things are produced in other countries because wages are lower and as Howard mentions it is hard to know the exact origin, other than that of country. I would happily buy more that was produced in the UK, however this would involve looking like something out of 'country living' magazine. (a friend of mine once had this pleasure...he was wearing tweed!)
I am a big fan of second hand clothes and something I really think more people should do. Phillip might find this a dirty concept as it is technically 'recycling'.
As of the national union of teachers and the rail unions, I had no idea they were running sweat shops! I can imagine it now: children chained to tables making placards demanding for smaller class sizes. - It has to be said that I buy as many secondhand products as possible. That fact has nothing to do with sorting out cardboard from plastic and slops from glass bottles - it's simply a matter of good old fashioned thrift. Where I have a problem is where people worship the God of recycling in order to absolve their sins to the environment, all complete twaddle of course.
As far as your remarks about the NUT and rail unions they are certainly not running sweat shops. The complete reverse is true of course and are both running what is effectively a cartel which holds the rest of the country hostage to their demands. Note the deal where London tube drivers are promised a grand and a half not to strike during next years pharma games for example.
On a completely different note the question has to be asked about the state of mind of Michael (Lordy lordy) Heseltine.
Is he now mad as a box of frogs? - Heseltine is gaga and still suffering from that Euro disease. At least he and (most) of his Eurofanatical type are now out of frontline politics.
- Well who knows...Heseltine might be a tad gaga as said below or he might be a bringer of ultimate wisdom. Only time will tell, but I admit he is not what he was. But only time will tell on the Euro...it could rise from the ashes and rally.
In Spain the new government will be centre right as said, but then some describe Tony Blair's New Labour as centre right. It certainly wasnt terribly left wing so this Spanish election may not be a serious shift to the right. But interestingly the voters have voted for austerity in Spain, because they knew exactly that's what the new government was promising....and they have gone for it. A marked difference to the Greeks.
Interestingly today the Coalition, in the shape of Nick Clegg and David Cameron were out and about with media in tow, launching their new building regeneration programme. Its all on the news. Was this not Labours suggestion all along. Energetic Ed Balls has been flogging this idea for a considerable time, backed up by the enigmatic Ed Miliband.
" Build roads, houses..get Britain back to work " said the lefties. - PaulB - the big difference is the means by which it is done.
If you think the Euro is something that Britain will ever join then you are putting your pro-EU hopes before the hard facts just like Heseltine. This country would be mad to ever join the Euro and no-one serious is saying we should and, in fact, our future lays outside the EU as is ever becoming more apparent. - Did not Parliament, led by Dave Cameron, pass a law recently that there can be no adesion of Britain to any future EU treaty, or to any significant change involving loss of power to the EU, without a referendum?
So how could Britain join the euro without a referendum? - Earlier I heard an item on the Radio FOUR and it made me think of this chat. On this very day 22 November in 1990 Mrs Thatcher quit as Prime Minister. She consulted her cabinet who told her the support was gone. Tory blade and all round glamour boy with the tarzan haircut had done for her...yes none other than Michael Heseltine himself in the full glow of middle age youth.
Heseltine looked unstoppable for a while, but in the following leadership contest he was surprisingly and shockingly beaten. So the Tories lost forever someone who would have been a dynamic media effective leader, and chose John Major instead. - I had no time for Major, he was hopeless as PM but Heseltine would have been worse, sucking up to the EU even more than Major.
- Major benefitted from being everyone's second choice in 1990 but suffered from it subsequently as he really had nobody 's 100% support.
- Barry, I too have a series of posts up online with my ideas. One of yours is akin to mine:
...all government departments and local government must skew their procurement towards UK companies and with preference to local businesses wherever possible.
G. Osborne is unlikely to announce any such measure, as first he'd have to have the law changed. Current laws do not allow such preferences.
- have gone through the points raised in the latest blog, needless to say i disagree with most of barry's wish list.
where i would agree is about cutting red tape for businesses and a nil n.i. rate for taking on new employees.
quite frankly the bit about local procurement is farcical, bombadier springs to mind, i have many memories of governments of both colours chucking british workers on the scrapheap to give contracts to overseas companies that have been subsidised by their goverment.
finally george is a politician more than a chancellor so expect any fiscal changes to be aimed at keeping the voters happy. - Howard - I am not talking about 'big things' but those small items like stationary, canteen supplies and so on.
I am not surprised that you do not agree with most, I have to say.
Alexander, as I said I do not expect much if any of this to be announced next week. Yes, there are laws, EU competition laws, that would prevent much of this and these should be treated with the contempt the EU deserves.
The measures I mention are all about boosting the economy and allowing it to climb back out of the slump. That means reducing the burden of the state to a level that it helps not hinders the economy. - If you need a reason not to vote Tory next time watch Chris Huhne on Newsnight on iplayer.
What does Huhne have on Cameron that he still holds a ministerial post? - He is a LibDem and a Cleggy appointee, a totally useless one at that.
- Barry, I'm well aware that he belongs to the pretend party called the liberals but the point is that he still holds one of the most important positions in government. His policies, fully backed up by the conservatives, are doing immense damage to our economy as we speak. The man is a snake oil salesman and nobody is capable of penetrating his armour. His technique is to use standard media tricks in order to avoid giving real answers to questions that expose his position.
Billions are being wasted and if there is a cold spell such as the type we experienced over the past couple of years people will die and the blame for many of those deaths can be put squarely at the door of number 10.
This green fascism will destroy our economy. - certainly mr huhne is a slippery customer as evidenced by his swift rise to the top.
a classic media successs, talks away but actually rarely ever says anything. - Mr Huhne was on TV last night on Question Time, one of the panel. He is increasingly looking bedraggled and a tad demented with wild staring eyes, but apart from that still neverthless at times shows a good sense of humour. On the hacking debate and despite him being smeared all over the frontpage of one of yesterdays national newspapers in salacious style, was still magnanimous enough to uphold press freedoms last night in good humoured style, despite David Dimbleby waving the paper and headline in his face.
But on the GREEN front. It seems they, the current coalition, are not quite as GREEN as they would have you believe. They have cut the grants for solar panels leaving many customers high and dry, and many people out of work. One man in the audience of same show, happened by chance to be an owner of a solar panel business. He will now be making 300 people redundant.
The interesting thing is...going GREEN is giving people employment. But now with these latest government cuts, despite flag waving to the contrary on tree hugging issues, they have stabbed the progressors in the back, or was it in the front. - I guess the question has to be asked if you want cheaper energy (don't we all?) are you prepared to pay extra in order to provide useless jobs for people who would spend their time doing something more useful rather than spending time installing imported solar panels and windmills. Going green - one might as well talk about going magenta. It's a meaningless description of a point of view which has long reached it's sell-by date. A gross waste of money and is trousered by smart people in the city and other places who can spot a fool at fifty paces.
It's good that they've cut back the subsidy but they should have cut it out altogether. Why should some poor granny pay for some golf club type to gloat in the bar telling all how much he stands to make on the back of all this green nonsense?
I don't feel particularly sorry for those who bemoan the loss of jobs in much the same way that when, one day, we shall see the collapse of that other fantastic scam which is the damp-proofing industry.
Now there's a con but do people believe this to be true? Of course not but one day, one day........... - quite a debate started there let me get into some of the postings;
BARRYW;
1; I still feel that you should look at rather than attacking the
public sector all the time, instead look at those earning vast
amounts, as the dosh drys up thus jobs go but these geezers
still get large dosh even if not doing well, this is in private
and public sector.
2;cuts everyone agrees with, putting over 3 million on the dole
you may then get a different answer from the public
3; if you spend more on defence(and im not knocking it)what
would you instead cut?
action on taxes
1'; if it worked out a fairer system maybe a consideration
i hate tax's lol
2not sure of the effect on such a merger
3;this sounds good but little detail
economic growth
1; i understand red tape often gets in the way of progress, but
my concerns would be employers cutting corners as they
did before some laws were in place, the protection of the
employee should also be a consideration
2; don't share view on making it easier to sack people, employers
already have to much sway, and would use this to reduce the
workforce, whether they had ability or not, so a lot more
thought required on this one
3; don't agree at all, before the introduction of the minimum wage
the job centre(as it was then) was advertising jobs at £2 an hour!!!!!!! we don't want them days back, so we need an
alternative as to how we can achieve a fair wage.
4; not convinced on the 50p rate either way as yet
5; the 6 months unemployed and employer help yep go with that
one
6; yep what are the benefits of speeding up the reductions in
corporation tax, and could the country afford it?
7;cant see govts/councils doing this
8;work for chambers no problem
9; not sure disbanding nest would work left to employers
paulb;
yes mr huhne like most of the lib dems know there time is long up and they are biding there time to the general election where they will be almost wiped out and have to start the rebuild of ther party.
philip;
barryw is correct the lib dems are holding many positions in this cobbled together govt, one that has been seen through, with u turns, cock ups, etc and there time is running out - You seem to be going for some kind of record Barry, but let's face it, there is little point in fighting bile with bile.
It is, I find, one of the most fascinating subjects for conjecture, the notion of Self and non-self.
Who needs Unions to fight on behalf of millions when we can have millions of fee based financial advisers looking after us by the each?
Can it be that our government and it's chums in the city are changing tack from the embarrassment of QE to the pay cut/tax increase by the back door?
By all means continue to cry out in despair as you and your beloved Party struggle with the sucking-sand that pulls at your feet, keep telling yourself that the weight of the cocooned wealth-worms that you carry aloft shall one day (soon?) become the butterflies of Boom. Keep on regurgitating the formulas of old, re-informing the masses that they have never had it...so good. Reach out for that straw.
The Era of the Blue and the Red is at an end. (I wrote/read somewhere) The world is moving-on and you and your ilk are moving backwards even as you stand still. - i could not agree more tom, the days of the reds and blues with their respective dogmas are over.
there are only diehard politicians that still stick with it mainly due to them not getting out and meeting real people. - I agree with Barry.
Have posted on a thread re. school closure on Wednesday.
I am not certain I can support the school anymore for free by volunteering when the people i am there to support have shut the school for their own selfish reasons.
I understand that they had a choice whether to strike or not individually and I am horrified that so many chose to strike that half our schools are not open. - howard;
unusual but i don't support your latest view.
without doubt the reds and blues taking people for granted have long gone but many still vote that way.
of course the floating and non voting public increases each election and as you say a lot of that is down to cllrs/govts etc not engaging enough with the public
- Sheli,
We disagree, you and I.
Leaving to one side, as we both have;the children and their learning experience.
You seem able to decide for yourself whether or not to offer support to the school, but condemn others for doing the same thing.
You disagree and act upon your decision to follow your own lights. All well and good.
Others though...
The staff must accept whatever is asked of them, come what may. As for them, you allow no other path than to grin and bear it. "To suffer the slings and arrows of 'outrageous' fortune..." and to lump it.
I suppose the point is...
The withdrawal of labour is a luxury and by no means one that the employed can enjoy.
I do hope you will reconsider.
For where are we to get your like in the future if those soon to retire find they must continue in (actual) paid employment or go without the necessities of life where you have at present the luxury of choice. - keith
the point i was making was that the old loyalties are now gone.
when i was a kid whole streets had windows adorned with political posters at election time, most people zombied there way down to the polling booths to put their "x" against the candidate for the reds or blues just like their parents before.
tony blair saw that the old dogmas did not appeal anymore got rid of clause something or other, ditched the red flag and stopped calling each other comrade.
result swept to power and would possibly still be there if he had not stepped down.
dave was the only one that saw this and followed suit 18 months ago, stressing that the elderly and vunerable would be looked after by the new caring sharing blues.
we can see that he lied through his teeth but the fact remains that he managed to cobble together a government.
if he had stuck to the jaded outdated mantras of the past he would have failed miserably. - I think Osborne is in for a very big surprise himslef!
He wants to see how far he can go in ripping off the people, in whole-sale pinching from people's pockets, while safe-guarding the incomes of the fatcats.
The man must be totally out of his mind!
He's on the right track to throwing the Tories completely out of reality and out of touch with the People.
Osborne must be the best thing that could have happened to Labour, he seems to be opening the door for the total demise of the Conservative party. - Ow gawd Alexander. What tripe.
- barry,is tripe with onions.?
- to be fair barry
it has happened(leaks) under all goverments
always has, always will - Keith - my point is that prior to 1997 it was a resigning matter for a Chancellor if there was a budget leak. Then in 1997 leaking budget details became semi-official as a means of media manipulation. It is wrong whatever government is in power and I am very disappointed that this government has not stopped it.
- Yes indeed BarryW its all about media manipulation in advance. Several MPs in The House have complained already about statements released to the media first on several topics, several matters, particularly Conservatives...so some of the old traditions are going for a Burton. Media first..House second.
Another annoying feature of the modern age is the pre release...
"Nick Clegg will say later today that...."
"Mr Cameron will be visting Vladivostok today and will say..."
But I suppose it just goes to show what a number of us have been saying all along, if you are not media savvy these days you have no chance. - Things are about to take a turn for the worse. The UK is set to lose it's triple A rating. The pressure is on and France is also in the firing line.
Inevitable really with our level of debt increasing not decreasing. How we were seen as a safe haven in the first place is beyond me but it seems the markets now are set to target us.
Hold on to your hats folks. - look on the bright side philip you won't have tp pay more for petrol/diesel in january and rail fare rises have been capped.
only £.90 a week for someone working in london now. - Philip - Debt was set to increase through to 2015 anyway. It is an appalling legacy and Labour should never be forgiven for leaving it to us.
Thing will get a lot worse before they get better. In the face of what is coming anything Osborne could do is simply inadequate.
I wonder if these irresponsible spendthrift politicians here and in Europe will actually learn the lessons of what they irresponsibility has done. I will not hold my breath - the misplaced faith in government spending runs deep in these small minded people. - A little eco-light bulb glows above my head as I ponder how time is spent in deciding such matters of high-finance...
As I recall the card game, "Beggar my neighbour."
Such evinces the blue-sky-thinking that has taken us from the usual Snap, but does not get much nearer any game that utilises stratagem; Whist or (heaven forfend) Bridge.
Although I am left unsure as to what degree we have forsworn our City-trump. - barryw;
yes you are correct all govts do it including this one
but i suppose thats the climate we are in
sad though - Tsk! Another day, another U-turn. It seems that the government has decided to give up on it's plans to repatriate powers from Brussels at the big nosh-up coming up in Europe where they intend doing something about the problem they caused by inventing a toy currency.
The tories somehow think it's really important that the euro must be saved at all costs and if that means that we go along with everything the great eurogods then so be it.
Well it was good while it lasted, the grandstanding and pseudo Thatcher rhetoric. I almost fell for it for at least five micro seconds. Then I cast my mind back to the other broken promises and felt quite normal again. - Philip - it is all becoming irrelevant with the coming hurricane. The whole game will change when that hit and DC knows it - you are seeing a game being played out.
- I have been doing my morning round up and catch up on the economic issues and developments of yesterday. I need to do this daily for professional reasons not political.
there are some misrepresentations of the governments actions in Europe.
1/ No they have not given up on the repatriation of powers at all, very far from it.
2/ There seems to be some confusion among people here about Osborne and Cameron's attitude to the Eurozone crisis. They say they want to help find a solution to the Eurozone's problems, that does not necessarily mean saving/keeping the Euro in its present form as some seem to think. The dangers that are faced by a break up of the Eurozone have been pointed out by them and they are right to do so, as there certainly are dangers. Better for that break-up to be controlled and managed rather than as a panic measure. There is also a lot of political talk in public about 'saving' the Euro - saving it does not necessarily mean what some here are claiming in practise.
The sooner the Euro crisis comes to a head the better and the sooner a recovery will start. The Euro can be saved, by breaking it up into at least two, possibly three currencies and it will be better if it is a managed break-up.
Do not be fooled by political rhetoric. DC and GO are only too well aware of the vanity of the EU leaders and they need to help them save face to encourage that managed solution to avoid a chaotic end. That will be better for us but, however it happens, it must happen. - Sorry Barry but the tories have given up on the repatriation of powers issue. Read Bruno Waterfield's latest piece in the Telegraph Chris Grayling is quoted thus:
"“The key priority is to get stability restored, to get a solution to the eurozone crisis,”
I just wish Cameron would stop this grandstanding and gesture politics. It makes him look entirely stupid.
Funny thing is that some time ago I raised the question of the possibility of a run on UK banks. I was told not to be pessimistic. I also raised the possibility of a global slump.
Well how's about this now everyone's talking about it.
And here's me - not a qualified economist or political pundit but merely Joe Soap.
If I could spot the signs so long ago where were all the experts?
- Philip - The present problems have been forecast for a long time. Back last January I blogged about another crisis being around the corner. I thought though that we would get through 2011 for it to hit in 2012. I pointed out that the problems that arose in 2008 had not been solved merely wrapped up and parked in a different place ready to bite. I am actually grateful that my timetable was out - far better to get this done and sorted so we can move on.
Read your quote, then read what I said - I answered that point directly. - Hmmmn, I don't think so.
- Philip, it is about Geopolitics.
The eurozone as we now know it WILL NOT exist any longer, this is fact.
Olli Rehn, EU commissioner for monetary affairs, has announced that the eurozone will either integrate into one compact area, or disintigrate.
There is no other alternative.
London is wary of Berlin's and Paris' move to take complete political and monetary control over the other 15 eurozone countries.
Chancellor Merkel has indicated there could be a war if the eurozone broke up.
However, war in Europe is a very unpopular idea among the British public, and my guess is that we will see a compromise, with Holland and Flanders retaining independence, and Denmark further north, and Greece in the Mediterranean, and also Cyprus and Malta.
We cannot do anything for all the others, except that Ireland will certainly leave the eurozone.
The new map of the Isles and of Europe will look different. It is like a new Vienna Conference.
- Well Jacques Delors is like that expanding band of wise(!) old politicians who have had their day but fetch up on 24 hour tv or sunday morning chat shows to voice their head shaking hand wringing wisdom. They have experience...two who spring to mind in similar category are Michael Heseltine and Paddy Ashdown..amiable oul veterans who wont go away and dig their gardens.
There are 17 eurozone countries as I understand it Alex, although one gets confused re numbers, as to who is in it, who is about to join it, and who is about to collapse from it.
One or two voices of note have indeed been raised in the past week on the previously unmentioned topic of collapse, suggesting preparation in real terms for a possible demise. That is different and a tad alarming.
I dont think Ms Merkel was suggesting there might be a war but was noting how great it was to have peace for so long, possibly because we are all working together.
My feeling is that Ireland wont leave the Eurozone. Ireland has seen considerable growth and prosperity since being in it, massive growth and prosperity, but obviously that growth came to an abrubt halt a few years back when the US property crash hit world finances...and they were overstretched in the borrowing department, as were other nations. Since getting its house in order Ireland has shown some good percentage growth, forget the exact figure but was in the region of 2.3%. In order for this growth to be sustained the euro crisis would need to be resolved.
But overall you could say they Ireland experienced boom and bust economics, to use the Gordon Brown vernacular. - paul makes the point about ireland benefiting from being in the eurozone, i thought that most of the euorpean money pumped into the country was well before the currency came into existence.
the irish government brought in some incredibly austere measures to save their bacon, which brought people onto the streets in protest.
not for long though, soon everything went quiet and now we read that ireland is getting a large pat on the head from the i.m.f. and others for bringing stability there.
they may well stay in the euro if it survives but for no better reason than they don't have any emotional/historical attatchment to the punt. - D.C. under close questioning recenty, was quite clear his cobbled togther govt has NO INTENTION of withdrawing from the E.U.
- Keith the Emperor has no clothes. Cameron is a committed europhile liberal lefty. Of course at first the act was reasonably good. He actually convinced his party that he had the UK's interests at heart but wait and see over the next few weeks where he will collude with the rest of the "colleagues".
I mean he fits the bill. His stance on climate change, his supposed cuts which are nothing of the sort. His refusal to give us a referendum (I'm jumping the gun on that one but it a given that any treaty changes will not be considered by Cameron to be important enough to trigger a national vote).
His obsession with covering our land and coasts with windmills. His other obsession to build the HS2 train line which is a complete and utter waste of money. His blanket refusal to develop Heathrow.
Many of his more gullible supporters suspect that he and osbourne have a master plan where the euro and europe is concerned. Hmmm this is merely propaganda for the traditional blue rinse tories. Other commentators and those such as myself can see straight through the mirage. - Keith - you should know that what is said is not always what is meant. Exit from the EU will not happen soon but it will happen, within 10 years is my prediction. Unless the Eurozone crisis has an even more profound effect than I think meaning we are out earlier or it reverts back to a trade only organisation in which case we will remain in.
- Barry, your views on the EU are completely out of touch with reality!
Things have changed. There will be a political and fiscal union of a number of eurozone countries. Poland - at present running on the Zloty - wants to join this union. These countries believe it is in their best interests to do so.
This excludes both of your propositions:
1. That Britain will be in the EU for another 10 years.
2. That the EU becomes a trade only organisation and Britain remains a part of it.
You are fantasizing when you suggest that all eurozone countries want anything other than complete political and fiscal union. May-be some countries in Europe might not be in favour, but the majority are for it.
Mr. Schauble, a prominent figure in the German government, made clear to Dave only recently that Britain would have to join the euro in order to have anything to say in the EU.
There is no way the leaders of Germany and France would sit and talk with British ministers about policies if they knew that they were planning to pull Britain out of the EU within 10 years. In their view it would be blatant sabotage.
What you are suggesting, Barry, does not fit in to any political or economical reality being discussed or even considered in Europe.
Put it this way: if you were a member of a football team, the game is to last 90 minutes, and you tell all other team-players that you are all for the team losing, and will pull out after 15 minutes after scoring 5 home goals, do you think they'd let you even start playing?
Get real on the EU, Barry! Either in, and stay in, and play according to the rules without complaining, or out of the EU now. - Alexander - the fiscal union that some are proposing is a last ditch attempt to save the failed Euro. It will not work and at best it might buy time.
Political leaders say one thing but often mean something else. Merkel is hamstrung by her domestic political situation to fully push ahead with the kind of reforms that might, repeat might, work so any 'union' will be doomed to fail.
Europe is about to reap a whirlwind of its own making. - Time for; a government made-up of men who have no need of wages, but thrive on the ambrosial ectoplasm of the mere promise of economic activity...CHECK
Time for; fewer and fewer people paying income tax...CHECK
Time for; a form of democracy without substance. Where prospective government leaders and partys say anything to goad the faithful to go through the motions of voting, regulated in real time by (compulsory?) exit polling...CHECK
Time for; a nominal return to Victorian Values, without the past encumbrance of quiverers and Quakers with their outmoded notions of the Common-Weal...
...A return, in short, to the days of the Mongol Hoard, the Vandals and the Visigoths. When the only good 'quiver' was an emptied one and when the only quakes were felt by the ill-informed and soon-to-be re-educated 'obstacles' to progress.
Small Government = Democracy-lite
All in all, Barry; nearly there. Just one tiny problem. The next election, but as I am sure you are aware dodgy-Dave is working on that as we speak: Driving people away from the electoral register as he is driving people away from Public-Pension provision. - Barry, you ought to realise that some eurozone countries owe a sack of money to Germany and France, and are about to bail out on top of it, meaning they want more money.
If Britain got involved in all this, Germany and France would be asking us to foot a part of the bill.
As it is, they propose doing it themselves, in return for full fiscal control over the bankrupt treasuries of Italy and a few others.
Unless you want Dave and Osborne flinging anything from £40 billion to £100 billion pounds at Italy, how can you suggest we will still be in the EU for the next 10 years?
I thought you were against big government and against flinging money at problems that cannot be solved by flinging even more money at them.
If Dave does not get the drift of how the wind is blowing at the comig EU crisis meeting and decides to fling a sack of our money at the failed eurozone economies, then I think he is in for something big.
Our economy would collapse, people would give up and go on strike. Dave would have to go immediately.
Barry, this is our money we're talking about, not Dave's. All he can do by LAW is give us a referendum on the EU, NOW, as there is about to be a new EU Treaty, or a significant change to the existing one.
Anything less than that is illegal. Dave cannot promote a law and pass it through Parliament (referendum on major EU changes), and then turn round and say that he "knows better" and trample this law down.
If he tries it, he is in for very big trouble.
- Alexander - I would love us to be out of the EU tomorrow. The fact is that will not happen. If there was a referendum now we would lose and be locked in to the EU forever. I have said before we must let the EU take enough rope and hang itself - any referendum must be on a positive negotiated alternative to the EU and not a simple in/out.
- sitting on the fence again barry,beaware of splinters.
- Barry, you are the only person who states that if there were an EU referendum now we would lose.
No-one else says this, not even the EU supporters, no matter where I read on the Web or which papers I look through.
It's only you who says this.
But you've missed my point: the law says that in the event of an EU treaty change, there must be a referendum in Britain.
The peril Dave would get in is trying to be above the law, especially if he flings tens of billions of our money at the EU too.
This would be tyranny and theft together. I've had enough of Dave and Osborne taking hard-working people's money off them, while any attempt to touch the bonuses of bankster is "theft".
Dave can expect a court-case if he becomes Col. Dave, High Court judges will look into it, because I am not going to sit here and let him trample the law down, trample democracy and become ABOVE the established laws of Parliament, while flinging our money after every failed eu state on top of it, such as Italy.
- Barry is probably correct in respect that a referendum at this time would be risky. Warnings of catastrophe, probably well deserved, might lead people to heed the dire warnings and vote against a no vote which would do the cause no good at all.
The problem is simple in my mind.
Had successive British governments been more assertive in their dealings with the EU pointing out the ridiculous schemes the eurocrats dreamed up on a daily basis we wouldn't find ourselves in the state we find ourselves in. Unfortunately for a variety of reasons including "right wing" views seen as being somehow Neanderthal and therefore discarded by tory administrations added to the fact that liberal and left wing governments who were really self haters in terms of being British sensible voices were drowned out. Major is a prime example. Blair even more so.
The UK's free market approach and their warnings over the euro currency was characterised by many as those of swivelly eyed lunatics.
The damned fools.
Now they, and we, are paying the price.
- Alexander, wrong again, many Eurosceptics are warning of this risk. In addition the EU fanatical Libdems want a referndum Alexander - because they know they would win it.
Incidentally, a pro-EU Grauniad journalist only a few days ago said this as well. - No Barry, you are wrong.
The LibDems want an EU referendum because they want to show the people they are for democracy, and not the underdogs of the Conservative Party of Call me Dave.
So even if the majority voted for out of the EU, the LibDems would claim they allowed this democratic decision to come about, and quite rightly too.
The LibDems would then say that they'd govern Britain according to the will of the People. They would stand a good chance of getting more votes and even remain in Parliament at the next General Election.
If they went along with Col. Dave's undemocratic decisions, they'd have nothing at all to claim for themselves.
Col. Dave is passing into British history as someone whose iron-cast promises no-one believes in, including himself. His oposition to democracy in Britain and his attempts to challenge the governments of France and Germany in European affairs are putting him between two ships, where he is neither on one side nor the other.
He is already losing the support of many Tory MPs over his anti-democratic policies regards a referendum, so before long he'll be the leader of no-one. - Alexander- the LibDem referendum support goes back way before the coalition.
Loom at the history of referenda in this country, think about what motivates people to vote and you will see why the LDs want one and why we would lose it. The LD motives are not about wanting to appear democratic and all about locking us into the undemocratic EU. - In answer to your above questions on the decline of the West, Barry, a counter-question:
Why can I not buy a pair of slippers made in the UK?
When we get back our lost production, the lost textile industry, and learn once again to make a ball-point pen in Britain, then work will be in abundance, and we won't have a massive trade deficit.
When will Dave and Osborne address the trade deficit? - Alexander. I recommend that you read a book that I read back in 1980 that gives you the answers to your question. Though a economics book it is easy to read, I keep a copy here in my office and I have often dipped into it. It is called 'Free to Choose' by Milton Friedman.
www.amazon.co.uk/Free-Choose-Statement-Milton-Friedman/dp/0380525488/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1323248718&sr=8-2
We must not look at what we have lost but look forward to new opportunities. We cannot compete on manufacturing costs for low tech goods such as textiles with the Far East though we can do a lot about making ourselves more competitive, something I have addressed many times. - "Only a third of people now believe that the government should redistribute wealth."
I dispute this! They must have carried out a biased survey to achieve this result. Manipulated I say!
- No Alexander - Google it and all the information on which the data was gathered is there. It all conforms to appropriate standards.
People are just being more realistic and sensible these days. - There is definitely a change in mood. This I think is partly if not wholly brought about by the austerity we are all living through these days. People are feeling the strain and while getting up to work on these dark mornings are resenting those staying in bed while fit and claiming compensation for various ailments disabilities etc. It must be emphasised that ordinary folk are supportive of genuine disability claimants but so many are bogus as we see on our TV almost nightly.
Im afraid to say I agree that the Green taxes are a joke. They have lost all credibilty..even down to taxing us on carrier bags from some retailers..we are an overtaxed nation, we pay though the nose for everything and an extra tax with a so called green label on it is extracting the ermmm.. st michael! - You are spot on in that PaulB.
- Only a third of people now believe that the government should redistribute wealth. I wonder which third?
- probably the poorest third peter.
- Looking for something for nothing Brian - giving it to them stops them from helping themselves. Not good for them or society.
- poppycock.
- could you make your replies a bit shorter next time please brian, it took me ages to wade through that one.
- ok,balls.
- ok barry,i will give you a proper answer,so here goes.
only if the time or place is right,if i refuse what ever the free stuff is i feel rude if i refuse it.if i dont want it i will pass it on to some one dose.
a lttle gos a long way to help when you need it.and besides that the person who gives you free stuff has done a lot work behind the scenes and a refusall will seem rude. - It's one thing being breaking away from Europe but where is the vision to develop other markets and make our way in the world. Much like a self-employed builder who joins a company for a few years and then goes back to being self-employed he has found that all his old contacts and customers are no more.
As well as that we are hamstrung by our egregious environmental policies and our largesse in terms of the billions we give away to other countries to "adapt to climate change".
I'm sorry but this was no victory by Cameron. He was out-manoeuvred by Germany and France once again.
We are in serious trouble. - Philip - you seem to assume that our trade with the EU will suffer if we leave, it will not. We buy more than we sell. The need for fresh markets is always there and is not something needed just if we leave the EU and on the way out we are.
- I do understand that Barry but this really has broken out into an economic war by another name. They will use every tactic to disadvantage us in every which way they can. It's strange how each nation reverts to type and looking back through history things are the same as they were 100 plus years ago.
If it all goes belly up in terms of the euro it would be worth it just for the look of panic on the face of Sarkozy and his motley crew. - Governments do not control international trade. The private sector does. Unfortunately membership of the EU has prevented us from setting up trade deals with other countries or joining trade blocs. We should immediately start looking to join NAFTA and get zero-tariff deals going with the rest of the Commonwealth, in preparation for the day we are free of the euro octopus.
- "even if it means denying it in public "
Lies and counter-lies. It seems that the EU is just too much like 'home'.
We must now fall-back upon good old-fashioned British Lies?
What is wrong with the whole EU has to be that it is not in thrall to the British Tory, or should that be English Tory?
For me the EU is good because it is not so enthralled with ideology that has busted so many economies of late.
The Conservatives are simply getting only what they wished for and the rest of us can go hang! - The EU is all about ideology and a leading ideology, a belief in big government spending that has busted half the Eurozone economies Tom so you are way off track... It is also about the European superstate and we serfs cannot ever be allowed to know the truth about it.
- so you say barry,serfs dissapeared in the 17th century.
- Barry, if Dave calls for an exit from the EU, or for an EU referendum, believe me, the Tories could win the next general election outright.
UKIP have acknowledged this!
Let the LibDems bumble on with their nonsence, let's do it now: EU referendum, full Tory support for said referendum, and Lieber/Dems will be a laughable minority at the next elections.
The omelette is just about right, let's not leave it to burn in the pan. Referendum now!
Many of yesterday's papers were full of patriotic praise in their headlines for Dave.
I got a first-day cover of the Sun. - Alexander. Sorry but I have to disagree.
That would politically be damaging and cost us the election. This is for one simple reason, it would spark a campaign of lies and scare stories by our opposition. People are more willing to listen to scares than reasoned argument.
It will not happen like that but our exit from the EU will be a part of a gradual and natural process. - Spoil sport, Barry!
No-one believes those stories about Europe placing sanctions on Britain and not trading with us if we leave the EU.
None of the Government's employment schemes to create work for the local unemployed can come into effect unless we leave the EU.
So if Dave lingers on in the middle of the road, in no-man's land, he'll achieve nothing at home. Europe will be paralysed because of Britain's veto, and we'll be paralysed because of EU laws.
At this rate, Dave will get to the elections with nothing to show! Then the Tories WILL lose!
If we leave now, the 26 can get on with it as they see fit, we can go our way and still trade with them.
Your strategy, Barry, will come back to haunt the Tories. - A number of the above mentioned myths come straight from Nick Clegg. He was repordetly informed before the Brussels meeting of DC's decision, had apparently agreed to it, and confirmed the day after the veto that it was the right thing to do.
After another day passes, Nick Clegg then turns round and says it was all wrong!
Surely the LibDems are doing nothing but hi-jacking the Government and Britain from within the Coalition.
It seems that many laws the Tories want to pass through in Parliament come to nothing owing to the LibDems, since May 2010.
Call a General Election I say! Surely DC has made a name for himself with the veto and stands a chance of making it into Parliament without these LibDems! - What tosh and drivel Barry.
"If only things were different then things would be different!"
Too much red-tape/not enough regulation.
A-S or A.S./Maoist
"...then, with the right economic policies ..."
Perhaps I erred. Drivel and tosh may be more accurate. - give gordon brown his due, barry would have a lot less to blog about if he couldn't drag his name into it.
- The most incompetent PM and Chancellor in British history will contribute a great deal to historical and economic texts for many, many years Howard. I do credit him one thing though to be fair, he kept us out of the Euro against Blair's wishes (though his motives are suspect...)
Tom - I am hardly surprised that you, who is a fully paid-up member of the big government lovers club, would think that. You need to take into account the lessons I refer to. - Alex re your post on 12 Dec, your last paragraph is quite right but only if Mr Farage gives up his ego trip and urges all his disciples to vote Tory. Otherwise the Eurosceptic vote will be split, allowing Miliminor to triumph.
- Peter, one could suggest UKIP and the Tories make a campaign agreement not to compete against each other in constituencies.
For example, 80% of constituencies would have a Tory candidate and no UKIP, and the remaining 20% a UKIP candidate and no Conservative.
This would unite the votes of UKIP and Tories. - AS pipedream Alexander and it would give UKIP a status it does not deserve.
- alexander
i often wonder what planet your on, but im sure you believe it could be?
although many have said ukip is just a tory protest party
there are still the strong traditional tory voters who will always vote tory
then of course you have this failed idea of tactical voting you cannot(should not) tell people ot take away there right to vote for whatever party they wish.
these pacts never work
believe having been in one whilst at county hall it's the worst option going - Then why should UKIP vote Tory, as Peter proposes?
UKIP is level with the LibDems, and this will earn the party equal status in the TV channels with the 3 mainstream parties. - alexander;
peter is correct(did i say that?)
ukip are making no breakthroughs at local or national level and are just seen as a protest tory party.
they also have the problem of being seen(rightly or wrongly) as a one policy party.
interesting though that you feel ukip and tories could be at one
others already feel this is the case. - Keith, at present the Conservatives are in a coalition with the LibDems, whose popularity has fallen dramatically since May 2010.
Dave seems to be doing a u-turn regards Brussels, and now wants to take part in discussions on a new EU treaty. At this point, the Tories migtht just end up level with the LibDems.
Just a week ago, Dave could have ridden on the waves of popularity, now he is just sitting there wasting everyone's time away and starting off again with "saving the euro".
Now not even 30% of the electorate bother to vote.
I suppose one could ask oneself why UKIP doesn't campaign more locally, as MPs are elected by their local constituents, usually using local campaign topics to attract support.
But if a party does nothing locally to attract support, it will also get no-where at the general election.
Charlie promised quite a few things, but his party hasn't delivered on any of these promises, but in some cases does the exact opposite, for example cowboy urbanisation planning a la DDC.
Other leaders (of parties) seem to have fallen asleep in hybernation. Let them dream on then!
But I admire your enthusiasm, Keith.
- alexander;
i'm just another poster with views like yourself.
you are correct UKIP are making no breakthrough at local levels and putting up for MP locally and your again correct that this reflects in there poor results at all levels.
you are correct the opposition parties(all of them) could be doing far more.
your also correct on cameron who is out in the sea all alone
trying on the one hand to please his right wing party members (and tory 2nd party ukip members)
and on the other hand trying to pretend the right wing doesn't exist
it won't work and will come back to bite him as it is at the moment - i think that the main problem our gallic friends have is about british banks withdrawing 20 billion smackers from their banks over a 3 month period
all the bluster is just that - bluster, designed to deflect attention away from their own problems. - and they are doing a good job to,making our goverment look small and nerdy.
- brian
the real concern now is, how do we look to other european leaders and the world at large.
weak and leaderless, total shambles - When the euro falls apart, a good point.
It seems inevitable that 17 countries will return to national currency early next year. And that the fiscal union plan will become void.
But what will this mean? Well, some countries, such as Germany, will take off economically, while others will probably have a part of their debts written off.
The EU as an organisation will probably cease to exist. - Alexander. It will not be so easy for Germany. Currently they are benefiting as the Euro is being held down by the weaker countries. That helps German exports to outside the EU. Without the weak currencies the German exchange rate would soar. Conversely what helps Germany is damaging to the weak countries as their currencies are artificially high damaging them, without the Euro their currencies would fall helping their exports and tourism.
This is the big problem they have. Expect the currency to split into two, three perhaps four currencies not necessarily back to own currencies. - Barry, even the Frankfurter Handelsblatt has stated that there are only two options Mrs Merkel is considering: the euro by way of fiscal union or the D mark.
The idea of fiscal union seems to have failed, according to latest official statements, so that would leave option No 2: the D mark. - The value of the € has started to decline. International investors are now putting their money into US Treasuries and U K gilts rather than Bunds or other European debt instruments. This will continue as long as the euro crisis remains unresolved, and will accelerate in the short term.
Barry I disagree with your view on the eventual split. Having participated in a failed experiment how many countries would tie themselves to a subset of their former partners? My view is that countries will peel off one by one, leaving eventually the original 6 ( France, Germany, Italy and Benelux), within the Euro. That view is based on the premise that, as Italy is both 1. Too big to fail and 2. Too big to rescue if they rescue everyone else, all the others will be jettisoned in the interests of the inner core. Some recent adherents might cling on. - You may be right Peter. Anything could happen but one thing is certain, the Euro in its present form is doomed.
- yep we are doomed 1930s style.
- Barry, there is no way the failing eurozone countries are going to get out of their present situation by simply changing currency.
They'd have to change the rules and regulations governing finances and most probably would need to cancel quite a bit of debt some way or another.
It certainly won't be just "business as usual".
And I just cannot see why unemployment should go down in Britain only during 2013. Is there a reason why we should have one year of prolonged torture?
- Alexander -getting out of the Euro is indeed not the only thing. There will be some defaults of course and also they will need to chop their spending.
But, out of the Euro their new currency can take a fair bit of the economic strain, a devaluation will make Greek ouzo and holidays very cheap and tourists will flood in boosting their economy and tax revenues. Their imports will be more expensive but that is part of the price they will have to pay. - the euro in general is starting to go into freefall, as a rough guide it is dropping one cent per day since dave launched into the eu.
might be worth crossing the channel for shopping by spring at the current rate. - It's good to know that George Osborne will not contribute the feared sum of £50 billion to the IMF bail-out of the eurozone. He won't contribute any of our money to it.
Well done George! - alex,thats a bit tight then,isnt it.
- No point in sending more good money after bad Brian. Tight no, sensible yes.
- barry,thats a very tight gesture,giving the imf a few quid would help us in the long run.you never know when we might need a quick loan back when things get tough.
- Brian, to be precise, George Osborne has not ruled out contributing to the IMF with Britain's money, but said that there would be no specific British contribution to the IMF for the failed eurozone.
He rightly says that the IMF is there to help the world, not to concentrate all the money (or a massive part of it) on Europe.
Furthermore, the EU wanted £50 billion off Britain to be paid via the IMF. I know it's Christmas, Brian, but money doesn't grow from Christmas trees. - up here it dose,in fact theres a whole forrest of mony bearing xmass trees up here.
- ...and A Very Merry Christmas to you Barry.
- Yes indeed a very Merry Christmas BarryW..well done with all that bloggin'
Im looking into my crystal ball for 2012..wait..wait..wait its clearing..yes I have a picture, a true vision.
I see now quite clearly whats going to happen in 2012 ... Clegg will oust Cameron from power in a coup with Labour's bright spark Ed Miliband..he will then join the Euro..along with all the other nations queing up, the Euro will then stabilise, having kicked Greece out into the long grass...so bonhomie will break out all round. There will be a shifting to the political left with bankers stripped to the economic bone. Loud horrays will be heard throughout Europe.
Sarkozy and Merkel, growing ever closer, might even marry, as we see they have a twinkling in the eye for one another and merge their two states. Ermmm pondering... no.. scratch that last bit as Ive just remembered Sarkozy is married to Carla Bruni.
My crystal ball fogged up there for the moment.
On the homefront Ed Miliband, who is now embracing those 'at home with the family' media exposures, could soar in the polls. He has that 'nice guy with the wide-eyed look' that might appeal to women voters. Cameron's appeal to women has been mediocre, his red line started from the bottom of the graph and went downwards, so there is no way back for him after the aforementioned coup.
More job losses are on the cards..I see in my ball. But when Balls takes over the economics this will be reversed with a whole brace of measures taken to stimulate the economy. More motorways, houses, rail lines, airports will be built, with money borrowed from the IMF, the same money we put in previously. Credit Cards will see a massive return to use amongst the ordinary populace, putting an instant end to payday loans. More cheers from the masses...
Sure, we will all be up to our eyeballs in debt and taxes but thats the way they all do it... innit!? At least we will have a job.
Clegg will see a return to popularity.
;-)
- sounds like you managed to get the key to posh barry's wine cellar copied just in time for christmas paul.
- howard,how many bottles did get away with,and was there any claret amongst the haul.lol.
- " or perhaps the new Korean leader announcing that he will merge North into South Korean democracy and will retire".............
or maybe David Cameron will come clean and admit that he has absolutely no influence on anything that happens in Europe.
Better still he will own up to the fact that he is not in possession of a backbone which might serve our interests for the better. - PAULB;
Your crystal ball not working 100%
your champagne socialist outlook is doing little to see the real future lol.
there sadly will be no overal control but tories will lose there largest party bit thus sending us into 5 years of turmoil.
i'm sure cleggy would be happy to get into bed with any party, as he has shown in the past he has no principals, no does he believe in his own party the way he shafted them, and his voters.
- Happy Christmas, Barry!
- merry xmass.
- merry xmas barryw and all
- seasons greetings to barry and his blogites.
over 90,000 viewings suggest barry has got it right. - most of them mine howard lol
- Merry Christmas....
- The worst outcome would be for the euro to collapse in chaos. An orderly process for individual countries to leave the euro has to be devised. Whether groups of such countries were to club together or whether individual countries go it alone should be up to them.
Had the key fiscal indicators originally required as qualification for entry to the euro been enforced rigorously in all cases, and strictly maintained thereafter, the experiment might just have worked. But the whole thing has been so beset with statistical fudges and political cloud cuckoo rhetoric that it never stood a chance.
By the way Barry, there's a Christmas card still behind the bar at Blakes for you to collect. - Hi Peter,
Been down with flu all over Christmas otherwise I would have been in Xmas Eve and/or Friday. Really flattened me and still not 100% over it. I will be in soon though, getting withdrawal symptoms from a decent pint, in fact almost any pint, soberest Xmas I have had for donkey's years!
You are right though, ideally we need a orderly process before it collapses in chaos, it will be less painful but I have little faith in the European politicians to do anything sensible. At least the UK Treasury have their plans in place for the fall-out. - barry,can i recomend the flu jab for next year,it works wonders.
as for the euro,you either love it or hate it,but it will around for a while yet,might evan recover after the festive period. - LOL Brian - I admire you for adherence against all odds to your misplaced and predictable loyalties.
- The EU is too diverse to make generalisations.
Some countries, such as Germany and Holland, the Scandinavian area and France, can succeed if they each leave the EU and adapt to their own individual currencies.
Others, like Italy, will simply have to forget receiving bailouts. If 2012 becomes a year of financial bailouts, it will mean the economic end of the afore-mentioned countries and their financial demise.
2012 should see the end of the 12-star Babylon. - "The start of economic recovery for a start but it cannot start..."
Yea?! Who needs resolution?
The Conservatives have one policy and one policy only. To be assured, as far as super/sub-humanly possible, that they shall gain sole victory at the next election.
And so...to turn this over-cooked Turkey of a nation into tasty, delicate and crust-free sandwiches for the few and an insipid, grey gruel for the irrelevant masses.
As ever your (ever-so,not so, humble) correspondent has the antidote to hand...
"Be sure yourself, and ensure your friends and neighbours are resolute also, to be registered to vote and determined to vote...then leave the rest to the Political Partys to attract your vote as best they can."
None shall place the electorate in it's (our) proper place at the head and in the lead of all things Democracy "save ourselves".
Tomorrow, as was true this morning, will be the first day of the rest of your life. Do right by yourself and for your neighbours and the Pounds will take care of themselves.
A guid new year to ane an' a'
[I shall put a link to the full lyrics whenever/wherever the new year thread is to be on the forum :)] - I recommend that you read Blake's history of the Conservative Party Tom. You will find out a lot about what the Party is really like and what it has actually achieved. It is a long way from the silly left wing mythology.
- Barry I don't think anyone who is intimately tied up with one party will ever be able to understand fully the philosophy behind another party. Hence the myths. Those about Labour and the libdems are just as silly as those about the Tories which are bandied about by their opponents.
All the main political parties are broad churches and the biggest challenge facing party leaders is how to channel those different shades of opinion into a coherent set of policies while upsetting as few members as possible. Labour and its supporters now have the luxury of being able to throw stones at the coalition in order to distract the electorate from the fact that it has no policies worthy of the name - a status enjoyed by the Tories since 1997 until Cameron realised there was a chance of gaining power. - exactly as i see it peter the reds look as out of it as the blues did after they lost power. blair was untouchable for many years as the blues various leaders looked out of their depth against him.
dave was the only one clever enough to model himself on tony blair to lead his shambles of a party to power.
the opposition now has no real leader, no policies and haven't a clue what direction the party should take. they have a great opportunity to look good, with yellow supporters more than willing to switch their vote to them and the austerity measures that will leave a feel bad feeling right up until the next election. - Whatever happens be sure to keep your eye on events. Bad things will happen very, very quickly and panic will set in once the tipping point, if you like, materialises. He who panics first panics best.
Seeing what happened with the MF global scandal should give us all a few pointers as to how things might play out.
Correction - will play out.
Whatever happens, happy new year to all. - Better not to panic at all Philip...
- Indeed it is best not to panic but try telling that to the 40,000 investors, some of whom had their life savings in MF global, who now face financial ruin in many cases. Try telling that to Greek, Spanish or other depositors when the ATM's and bank tills are shut........
- Philip - well dare I say that in your first instance it shows the need for good fee based independent advice....
- Well it strikes me that MF global were a well respected outfit before the went bust but no amount of good independent advice would have shown what eventually ensued with depositors last in the queue before other big financial institutions in terms of getting their hands on their deposits. The way the receivership was handled is scandalous and gives us all a hint on how our money might find itself lost for good if the balloon goes up.
In terms of panic I suggest you check how respected financial institutions, hedge funds, investment funds etc. are going through a state of controlled panic as we speak, withdrawing their funds
from risky areas such as the eurozone.
This behaviour is regarded as sound fiscal management however. - Philip - I deal with such institutions daily. Last month I have been switching clients from funds with excessive Eurozone sovereign debt exposure myself. This is sensible and I have a duty of care. Not panic but sensible controlled measures and the biggest exposure I have had was under 5% of a portfolio.
MF Global was over exposed to such debt and made some mistakes along the way so they paid the price. The affairs of their UK company are being administered by KPMG LLP who know what they are doing and I am sure will act properly. I cannot speak for the US parent.
I am pleased to say that none of my clients will have lost a penny with them as that company has never passed my due diligence, so I have paid only passing interest in that particular matter. - Hindsight is wonderful, Philip. I bet the KCC treasury people wish they had had some training in credit risk assessment and asset allocation methodology before they put £50m of OUR money with Icelandic banks.
Barry got it right here. When you are dealing with other peoples' money you can't be too careful. - howard;
sadly at this moment in time theres a lot of truth in your last posing.
if you read blairs book he left no stone uncovered to make sure he got into number 10 and it didnt matter how.
cameron is trying a very similar line, but unlike blair cameron has become unpopular very very early
also unlike the blair days mr blair had a big majority where has mr cameron doesn't have one at all
i hope ed and his lot get threre ars in gear soon - Keith, much as I would like to see a credible opposition to whatever colour government is in power, at present we have no opposition worthy of the name. And as for red Ed getting his ars in gear, I doubt he could find it in the dark.
- well now peter
i cannot prove your not a member of the blues so will leave that one.
but your postings certainly lean towards the blues from the posts you make on this forum.
that is of course your right. and i respect it
but then it makes it quite clear where your coming from when you go on about the labour party or its leader - When I see him on PMQs he reminds me of something out of Creature Comforts.
- the sooner the reds promote that chap with the name that is a good score at scrabble the sooner we will have a credible opposition.
dictatorial dave walks all over him. - I don't see that happening any time soon Howard. Although Labour's leadership is non-existent the Tory's economic policies will, no doubt, cause the complete collapse of our economy making us even more uncompetitive than we are now.
Whilst the usual suspects in the party are droning on about new eco taxes on flights in europe they are missing the bigger picture with Osbourne's undermining of our economic future as a result of his mad and extremely hairbrained eco taxes.
Add that to Cameron's ridiculous ideas for what is laughably described as an energy policy and the two are sure to bankrupt our country faster than even Gordon Brown could ever hope to.
Of course Barry will no doubt ignore this glaringly obvious hole in their model and choose to spout the usual propaganda from conservative home.
Ahhh 2012 the same as 2011. - Philip - you know better than that. I do not spout Conservative propaganda..... I have never hesitated to be critical of the government (or Conservative policies, that's different) where it is deserved and you also know that I am not a particular fan of the environmental policies or any new taxes either. I just think that you go too far over the top about them.
- Good morning and a Happy New Year to each and all.
It is a common enough aspect of the thug, to be singular of purpose, without regard to any broader picture, and to blame others for their own failure. For the continuing gap between rhetoric and actuality. It may be the case that those who insist on sticking to the rhetoric, insist on blaming others, do so because they are so far adrift from the reality they wish to effect.
We are now so deep in the doggy-doo-doo that even the rats think better of abandoning the ship; by not boarding in the first place.
Woo-oo-pee! - HOWARD;
I don't share your view on ED
He needs to see which direction he wants to go
but like all party leaders before him he needs to hold fire
and be ready for when the cobbled together govt collapses
on P.M.Q. I don't think either leader comes out well
oh for the speeches and questions from the likes of dennis skinner, tony benn etc lol - It will be interesting to see a debate in The House on immigration. It doesnt say above what is the reason for the fall in immigration, but is it anything to do with Cameron?? or is it just a quirk of the times. Grim prospects everywhere are probably causing those ebbing and flowing to sit tight. I gather this is what Tom refers to below there.
I dont think our Prime Minister can do anything about Europeans flowing in and out unless he takes us out of the EU altogether...but a debate should be interesting as there is much more ground to travel on this one!
I was surprised to find Andrew Marr on his last show before the Christmas break say that he thought PMQ was something of an embarassment to all, and my view is that this is particularly so in the case of the PM who enjoys the low level guffaws more than he should. Not much Prime Ministerial dignity in it somehow. I dont think its playing well out there in the country. So you may have something there Keefy me oul china. - i hadn't heard that comment from andrew marr, thought i was the only one cringing at the antics of our honourable members.
dave has to be the worst because he is prime minister and should set an example to the tweeting, facebook status updating dross that inhabit the majority of the house.
the speaker has made it clear to them many times that the general public watch the monkey house antics and are not impressed. - Howard and PaulB - for all your superior words, if members of the House you would be joining in with the 'goings on' just the same. I suspect we all would.
You (and Marr) don't like it though because DC slaughters Milliminor making him look the hopeless twerp he is. I particularly enjoyed the last few PMQs myself. - don't see your logic barry, when have i ever said a nice word about red ed?
yes i would join in the fun in the commons if i had not left school and gone to work.
i am sorry that you find wednesday luch times amusing when the rest of the country is looking for a lead from our betters. - Keith I bet you loved PMQs when Blair was always getting the better of Michael Howard, IDS and William Hague!
- The issue on immigration is to be brought up in Parliament owing to a recent petition: No to 70 million", that topped the 100,000 signatures.
I was informed of this through an email from Gov.UK. It was an automatic template email, because on signing the petition, I ticked a box to be kept automatically informed.
- Peter - William Hague made mincemeat of Blair....sadly it did not help him win.
- paulb; me champagne socialist friend lol
yes pmq is a real turn off whether its tory led lib dem or labour in govt.
its how howard says,grown ups who are supposed to be running our country acting like spoilt children.
i didnt like any more when blair was destroying the opposition any more than now.
the less people that watch it more likely to vote
lets also not to forget dave prior to general election like many broken promises said he was fed up with the hoo ha politics at pmq and under his leadership thats all going to change.
did it change??????,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
no, in fact hes got even more involved in it.
he could have made a difference!!!!!!!! - they all say that about improving the level of commons debate.
i didn't think it so bad when blair was in, seems to plumb new depths year on year.
until the penny drops and they realise how the public see it nothing will change. - no dont think it was any better under blairm he was just a bit more advanced in how to operate within the system
but its so outdated - Keef I just have time to put down my glass of chilled champagne in order to type a responder !!...but alas I cant dilly and dally or the fine vintage might warm up to an unacceptable level...lol!
Indeed the PMQ half hour has sunk to a new level, it has found a new base, a new pit. Perhaps it is just a development in response to the shift in power. The Tories had nestled so long in opposition that they felt comfortable there. Winning an election seemed a remote possibility, but alas for Labour, Tony Blair stepped sideways into the wings and along came Gordon Brown. Oul Gordie did not resonate with the population and pretty soon Labour were on the backfoot. The 'charisma' had departed and the 'charisma bypass' was in place.
The writing was well nigh on the wall after that...and up popped Cameron. You would hardly call Cameron's rise a meteoric one because he scraped into power, but only with the help of the slippery Libdems who it appears will always sell their soul to the nearest devil.
So the Tories cant believe their luck..into power on a Libdem ticket. The Libdems take all the flack and all Conservatism rubs its hands with glorious glee. They almost cant lose..as the Libdems take all the kicking. Hence the overboard Tory joy and schoolterm frolics at PMQ.
Poor Ed Miliband has not set the world alight. His wide eyed innocent look is endearing in some quarters and one would hope his PMQ earnestness was playing well to the wider country. But his poll ratings are not showing this, so the Miliband bandwagon is not currently hot to trot.
Who knows! Maybe Ed can pick things up. He isnt all that bad at PMQ, not as bad as some might think. - paulb;
sorry to take you away from ur champagne your views in the main are correct, but you forget to add that after so many years(19) of labour just like maggie people were ready for a change
blair knew that so he made sure he goyt a job elsewhere and shipped out at earliest opportunity poss.
- I see the Libdem woe goes on. A new survey out this very morning confirms what some of us have been saying all along..ie..that the Libdem vote has ebbed away, or to be more precise and technical for a moment..it has fallen off a cliff!
Only 1 in 4 of those that voted for Nick Clegg last time round would do so again...says the survey. Oh dear! Time to burn that midnight oil and come up with a few new ideas to get the Libdems looking credible again Nick me lad. - hang on paulb; alexander is telling us the lib dems are soon to rule the world
- Perhaps with so much cyclical certainty one needs no more than five books upon the shelf;
1-History (Churchill?)
2-Geography (plenty of Pink!)
3-Debrett's (to know where we all stand)
4-Ptolemy (little-England as the centre of the universe)
And a magazine rack in the smallest room. (say-no-more)
No Coal, no Steel, no heavy industry...No money, less tax, but a ready supply of enemies.
And with so much of the proposed rearmament for employment off-shore we shall have to rely on the new tanks to patrol the streets at home.
Great Britain, huddled in a corner whimpering...
Fortunate enough for us all that we have a Conservative-led Coalition with an army of unemployed and to spare.
BUT.
As this all relies on economic recovery, chances are it will not be a Conservative administration come that dawn.
All the more need for such a push at this time though, what with Fox & Wheritty left to 'soldier' on in the back-ground. - Keith, the LibDems might find the courage to pursue some essential reform policies, preferably by forgetting the EU and dedicating their efforts entirely to Britain.
If they stand and fight for some essential issues, which they seem to be doing, they might well challenge Labour as second party. - Barry, never place two aircraft carriers so close together. To do so would be reckless.
And never send them out without at least 5 destroyers and frigates as escort for each carrier.
This is essential strategy. - looks a bit of a wish list to me, whoever is in charge in 2015 would make defence spending somewhere near the bottom of their list of spending priorities, that assumes that a recovery has started by then.
no surprise with obama, his interest and knowledge of the far east in general would make it his main priority. - it has just struck me,we havent got any them at the moment,do you think the yanks will let us borrow a couple to tie us over.
- Wishful thinking in terms of our defence policy. I mean how can we possibly afford to defend these isles when £60 billion plus, by the time it's finished, will be pumped into a vanity project, namely, the high speed rail link.
It's ridiculous.
In fact double that £60 billion. What is promised to cost £30 billion will inevitably cost four times that figure. - haven't seen it but it has had some good reviews, don't see jim broadbent as denis either.
i would imagine that the film would be aimed at an international audience, especially the states so there would little interest in her before she came to power.
bearing in mind her bad health over the past few years maybe it would have been better left until after her death. - There was actually a great deal about her before her election win Howard. It was done to help with the setting her up as such a strong clear headed and determined personality compared to the confused figure as a very elderly lady. As I say - as a study of what this terrible condition can do to people it is an outstanding film and was far from being boring as a 'study of dementia' might be. I just found it unsatisfactory as far as the political story of her massive achievements are concerned, these were touched on as colour and background only.
- The important question is who, exactly, will play Ed Miller band in a biopic based on his pointless and vacuous existence as, choke gasp, leader of the labour party.
Seeing as he's obviously had training to make 'imself, you know, sound like Tony Blair ok?, the role has got to go to that bloke who played the people's Tony on TV a few years ago.
Once again the beginning of the film will show our Ed walking down the road to the shops in order to buy some milk practising waving his arms and saying "come on guys" just like our Tone. - No-one will ever want to make a film about Milliminor - he just will never be significant enough.
- i have no quarms for scotland going it alone,as long as the other two follow suit.with that said britain could claim udi from the the 3 and join the eu and have the euro as currency.
and on milliband,a film you say but what title would you label it with,
here is my sugestion tighter than a ..........4skin.
do have a nice day. - Yes Barry, there is that one rather 'race-hate' issue. Would the people of Scotland be content to condemn the English to a never-ending Conservative Government?
A joke's a joke, but that would be taking it to the utter extreme. The Union intact is the only way for there to be any sort of Democracy in England. I am confident that my countrymen shall not so abandon all we south of the border.
P.S.
Mili-movie?
What about Mr. Bean? - Tom - we live in a democracy and however little I think of the Labour Party I would not want a permanent Conservative majority. Besides it would not happen.
What would be ideal though would be to have 3 Conservative terms for each Labour one....it works like this...
Every single Labour government has left office with an economic crisis and there is no sign that this will ever change. So the first term of a Conservative government must always be used to put right Labours economic mess, the second term to get some success into the economy and the third to put some 'fat' on the economy ready for the lean times of a Labour term - then the cycle starts again....!!!!!
Seems about right to me, 3 x 5 years Conservative terms then a single Labour term then back to 3 x Conservative....
We certainly cannot afford more than one Labour term at a time, after all the longest period of Labour government ends in our biggest ever bust... no co-incidence. - BARRYW
You will find outside of your blinkered box
that there are many people out there that cant afford a tory govt - Barry, our Union Flag includes tha Saint Patrick's Cross, which you have not shown in your picture above.
Anyway, my belief is that we will have a refounded Union, without a private family claiming to be its head.
In fact this move is inevitable, and I further believe a unified Ireland could well be part of a new Union of the British Isles.
The Government would be far less centralised than it is now, and a new localism bill would actually make it feasable for a refounded Union, as local administration would be placed more at County level. - much as i hate to contradict you alex st patrick never had a cross and if he had it would not be in the union flag.
- Paddy Ashtray reckons this is the most important constitutional issue affecting our nation for over 300 years. Personally I think it's probably the most boring subject seen over the past 300 years.
It's a complete yawn.
By far one of the most important issue over this period was the UK joining the EU. - st.patrick must be very cross then if he hasnt got a csoss on the union flag.
- Howard, our Union Flag has two red crosses, one being that of Saint George, the other of Saint Patrick!
- having checked it out alex i have to concede that you are correct, learn something new every day.
i doubt that modern day irish folk would be impressed. - You are correct about the flag - teach me for downloading it quickly without checking....
- According to analysts it's just about impossible for a eurozone member to default and not leave the euro.
The whole structure of the euro is based on the idea that it cannot default. So a number of countries will have to leave the euro currency, else they wil economically collapse. - That is not necessarily true Alex. I read the same thing but we were categorically told it need not be the case by someone in a position to know these things.
- The only way for that to happen, Barry, is if banks voluntarily renounce a part of their bailout loan paybacks owed them by the concerned treasuries.
They are hardly in a position to do so, as the banks themselves would risk collapse, or they would have to apply for quantitative easing from their respective national central banks to break evens.
For example, the Bank of England would have to print tens of billions of pounds and pump them into UK banks that have outstanding loan repayments with bailed out European countries.
Germany and France would be in a worse position, having greater exposure, and their banks would require hundres of billions of newly printed euros if they voluntarily renounced repayment from the southern European treasuries.
Because this would lead to massive inflation, it's not practical. The only sollution is for the bankrupt southern treasuries to default and quit the euro.
They could repay their debts in their new currencies. Their currencies would of-course fall rapidly, but rather that than sticking to the euro and having no money at all. - moving on from the high brow financial stuff, can i be basic and ask how this will affect the exchange rate euro/sterling?
every article i read goes on about how the euro is being smashed by the us dollar but no mention of any other currency.
i am asking this for purely selfish reasons. - Long term who knows Howard. Some reckon the euro will reach parity with the dollar. Currencies are by and large manipulated by governments all over the world for a variety of different reasons. As it stands the pound is being massively controlled by way of government policy including the printing of money as an example.
Your concern is far from selfish - all you're doing is attempting to safeguard your assets which is commendable and only what every other man and his dog is doing.
Cameron, a true europhile no matter what he or Barry thinks, is all in favour of the euro surviving. Not for what he says in terms of stability but because for all his bluster he really has his heart in the eurodream project.
Witness the high speed 2 project. There is no earthly sound economic reason to build it and his over-riding of any concerns about the folly were batted down firmly. Even labour and the liberals (hyper euro enthusiasts) agree whole heartedly with it going ahead.
It turns out that this link is merely a small part of a wider idea put forward by Jacque Delors earlier on in the euro project to link every country with another.
Google "EU directive 96/48" if you need proof.
Sorry to those who truly believe that Cameron is an arch euro sceptic but nothing could be further from the truth. You only have to find out about his energy policies.
A true red blue is our Dave. - not so much safeguarding assets philip as looking for the opportunity of getting cheap fags and booze.
sadly the other side of the coin is that our exports could be hit.
never worked out what dave really thinks about the european issue, him and william hague can be very obscure with their statements. - Can't help you on the ciggy front Howard. I know the price of fags and drinks lead me to despair and I find myself smoking and drinking even more. How screwed is that eh?
If they lowered prices I'm sure I'd abstain for a little longer each day.
In terms of Cambourne you only have to see how laws they pass strangely coincide with legislation overseas. Obscure and opaque.
Having said that the proposed welfare bill was an act too far in my eyes. Evil personified and according to Andrew Neil on This Week some lord snotty of snottyville made it his business to try to reverse the defeat in the lords the other day but was caught out by some sharp eyed baroness or dame or wench I'm not quite sure.
Remember that when you vote in a general election you are voting for the equivalent of a parish council. There is no choice between all three mainstream parties when all is said and done. The are lovers of all things euro area in terms of their political outlook. - It's simple, Howard. If the 4 or 5 bankrupt euromembers do not leave the euro currency, then the euro must go down in value, because they will have to print a lot of them to refloat the failing economies of all 17 members.
France and Germany recently had a plan to print a few trillion euro. If they do so, that currency will nose-dive.
My guess would be 2 euro for one pound in that case, possibly even more. - i hope your guess is right alex, would mean a few shopping trips and forcing down a meal with cognac at one of thse calais eateries.
pity there is no service to boulogne anymore where the grub is even better - wasting your time on the latest blog barry, b-lls is the past, nobody takes much notice of what he say's.
his missus is a different matter, will be difficult to malign her as she has a fairly unblemished if uninspiring track record. - i disagree wiuth you all
mr balls is the man to watch - Keith - Balls makes Kinnock look almost electable. Blimey Milliminor nearly does the same for Foot, after all Foot at least had a personality. Yes, with these two in charge the country is safe from Labour so long may they stay in charge of your party.
- barryw/kieth,right pair of cynics arnt we.the preasnt goverment leaves a lot to be desired,with cameron/osbourne likend to laural and hardy and cleggy be likend to a wendy wooly.
- brian/barryw
you come from the right wing rabid tory party so expect such comments when you are in the headlights running scared - Balls and the Labour party know they are rapidly loosing ground among the popular opinion owing to the latest promises from the Conservatives and the LibDems to bring about important changes for the better.
- Keith - weird comments, even by the standards of the loony left....
- kieth,never been a member of the tory party and never will be.i am niether left or right.just a cynic like you.
- brian;
apologies geezer mixed you together with baz
i was replying to both
'
no your not right wing i accept that
unlike our baz - brian and barry lumped together keith?
barry a true blue with a harem and brian with umpteen kids?
see what your are saying now. - howard,not that many,the bulk is grand kiddies,sigh.
- Well I have to admit its not a good time for Labour. Ed Miliband has failed to set the world on fire. He had a bad PMQs prior to the Christmas break and all the newspapers and pundits gave him a Christmas kicking. There wasnt much cheer in evidence over at Party HQ over the festive season.
The pressure has mounted on him from all sides since then. He hasnt crumbled as one might expect, but came back and started the New Year as cheerful and wide eyed as ever. But I sigh as I look at the Labour front bench. There isnt one amongst them as of right now who could captivate the voter. The policies between the parties are essentially much the same, the length of time over cutting seems to be the only real divide and even that difference is minor.
So therefore...a leader is more than ever the fulchrum on which you the voter hang your hat. Without someone or something to captivate...one might as well trundle along with the same old same old.
What price another Tony Blair right now? - And it seems his, what, 6th relaunch, has floundered..... interesting times.
- paulb
thats eactlly what i mean,
theres no political party that stands out
thus total apathy will win - Miliband E has the look of a man who has just realised that the whole socialist ideal is nothing but bankrupt stock.
- Spiteful and pathetic.
What more proof can you have, if proof were needed at all, that all such 'gongery' is Toady-ism through and through, plain and simple and of 'the first water'.
A Knighthood is no more than a lapel-sticker that declares that in the land where 'Toady' is king one is known to be and is to be seen to be a striking example of same.
"Very much one of us!"
Thou Art Toady, should be the legend; in short, TAT.
Far better to have the whole thing out and term such awards/rewards as "Goodwins" and have done with it.
It is not the man nor his works and efforts that have brought calls for his undubbing, but for the sheer undeniability that all such dolings-out are performed to reflect glory upon the giver more than upon those who receive.
The bold Sir Fred (more apt if it had been Dibna?) serves the precise purpose that was ever the intent in such sham symbolism. For he, as much as any of his ilk, epitomises the crass nature of the damp-toed-shoe of the trickle-down philosophy; trickle-down politics and trickle-down economics. Not in the least what you know or who you know, but who you flatter and who is flattered.
If such awards, either singly or across the board, cannot be undone why not then be-dub the nation as a whole?
Sir United Kingdom...SUK
Looking on the bright side all this guff is sure to keep the works of the 18th century's Dean Swift seeming every bit up to the minute.
Alas, the great pity is that such sterling satire is so much taken as a blueprint for how things should continue to be done. - Swift also wrote a wonderful treatise entitled 'The benefit of Farting explained'. By far his most entertaining work- he could immediately get to the Bottom of any issue.
Gongs should be awarded only on the basis of recommendations from the public and by the sovereign. Politicians should be barred from having any input except as private citizens. - awards;
the whole honours thingy is outdate and needs to have some value, i agree maybe the public having deep involvement if we realy must have these gongs then thats one way.
peter;
sadly all political parties have lost there way even yours
its how they re group or if they do - I still believe in the old order, even though I'm a lowly foreigner..I quite like the House of Lords for example and the knighthood business. Often regretted that in Ireland we have a society that shows no reward at all...not really. So if you save the human race from itself you still remain as Fred Bloggs until they bury you and then they might say a few nice words over your corpse. Fat lot of use to the individual concerned that is. A bit of a goal in the shape of a knighthood might keep a person motivated.
So if I get offered one I wont be turning it down..lol!
The wise ould heads in the House of Lords do a good job in holding up the extravagances of the other place, so here we put old wisdom to good use. Nothing quite as good as a wise old head.
But with regards to knighthoods..yes they do make mistakes..especially in Fred Goodwins case. Awful backslapping bloodsucking cronyism at work there. - paulb
but of course you are a champagne socialist(lol) so you be happy for such things to continue.
the house of lords like the house of commons is well out of date and im with the lib dems that is in need of reform.
the lib dems will probably fall well short of sorting it out though. - Let not the thorny issues of the paternal nature of our constitution and all things that from there stem nor the brain-bending niceties that separate the words 'citizen' from 'subject' detain us here.
The unwritten nature of the British Constitution lends a through-the-looking-glass feel to all discussions on the topic, but it is the world in which we strive. In short, it is not worth the paper it is not written on, but it is what we have.
For the convenience of the modern twenty-second attention span there are three main aspects to our Constitution:-
a-The rule of law.
b-The supremacy of Parliament.
c-The separation of powers.
[thanks in part to A V Dicey]
a-
-The rights of individuals are determined by legal rules and not the arbitrary behaviour of authorities.
-There can be no punishment unless a court decides there has been a breach of law.
-Everyone, regardless of your position in society, is subject to the law.
Sticking to the present time and to quote Hamlet, "But to my mind, though I am native here
And to the manner born, it is a custom
More honor'd in the breach than the observance."
b-
-Again sticking to the present time, this is fantasy laid upon fantasy. That any of the current crew of Political Partys has the least notion of what to do about this; increasing voter turn-out/participation, gaining a workable majority in the HoC etc. etc. they keep such notion to themselves.
c-
-Again. Not only sticking to the present time, but also now with Dave crossing Barry's line this along with 'b' is a mere matter of convenience.
I have a few things to do today, but I will come back to this. Hopefully by that time there may be more input.
Last but not least.
Where there is a written constitution the list of Citizenry Duties is unBritishly short and sweet:-
In the USA...
-Follow all regulations.
-Jury Duty.
-Witness duty.
-Pay taxes.
-Submit name for the Draft.
Where oh where, dear reader, would you fit the Doffing of Caps into your list? - most of the public would agree that the present set up with the european court of human rights lends assistance to law breakers to the detriment of the law abiding.
at the end of the day each country has things that are important to them.
i would like to see a bill of rights and responsibilities enacted that fits in with british values. - So...perhaps this is an issue that concerns the Silent Majority. If only they could bring themselves to tackle the issue in print.
For the sake of argument I shall continue with the understanding that their cries match those of Barry and Howard...
I can hear their sloganising as they march, leaving vast swathes of the country unpopulated.
What do we want?! Yea!!
When do we want it?! Yea!!
Historically, I think I am right in saying, this court, this European Human Rights Act thingy, was our idea in the first place. No doubt thinking has moved on since the mid-forties and developments have altered our spiffing notion into something entirely foreign to our nature.
If this is so. Could we then re-adopt the original?
If not. What?
Let us not continue to be the Silent Majority, the Saddo-Masochists that Europe etc. take us for.
Shall we print out the current Act and the original and compare and contrast?
OR
Shall we follow our economic failures and go back, lock-stock-and-barrel, to the roaring thirties?
OR
Wait for our betters to tell us what to think? - The original convention was about dealing with the kind of abuses conducted by the Nazis and Fascists and it is a real insult to their victims to compare the pathetic interpretation of rights being applied by the current batch of wet judges.
- O yea, chemical weapons, killing civilians and torture etc. etc. blah, blah, blah. I get you.
We haven't come through any of that with flying colours, have we?
Perhaps it should have been left to matters of warfare alone?
How a state treats those under it's wing/iron fist/thumb...is entirely a matter for any cobbled-together regime that the electorate, in it's wisdom, didn't vote for. For that is exactly what is being advocated with all this studied vagueness I alluded to in my previous post.
On that note then, we must cross-off option one:no compare & contrast.
This IS a major advance, none the less. - It must a very strange in there place Tom, in your mind that is!!!
- Those that have no mind, their own or otherwise could fall back on 'conservativehome' to dig up something to say on pretty much all matters Political, and as here, on matters revolutionary...
"Senior members of the Government's Commission on the proposed British Bill of Rights are urging that Parliament take control of nominations for Britain's next judge at the European Court of Human Rights, according to sources."
Playtex-Politics almost. To gain lift one does away with the separation? - And its getting even stranger Tom. Perhaps you are a man out of his time, perhaps you belong more to 18th Century France, another Robespierre perhaps and we know what happened to him, eventually guillotined by the monster he helped create...
- You know what they say about Osborne, he's more dear than darling.
- We do need a Constitution of Economy to get the economy back in order and prevent any government from messing it up in the future, Barry. We seem to agree on the fundamentals of this issue.
- The Euro is based on a lie. Everyone in the union lying to each other whilst at the same time knowing that this lying was being carried out but as long as the lie was covered up by all the euro countries that was all fine and dandy because it helped to create monetary union.
Rather like the lie that Obama had nothing to do with the great crash of 2008.
It was he, indeed, who helped cause the crash and what followed.
It was he who lobbied hard for the community reinvestment act which led to millions of poor people who shouldn't have been granted to buy a house up to their necks in debt and therefore unable to keep up payments.
Never, ever trust a politician. Ever. - Perhaps Germany will introduce the Reichmark this year.
- perhaps not,but they might the reicheuro instead.
- So...Labour bad, Conservative little better.
Could it be that you are finally getting with the programme Barry?
Jobs...things on the up?
Economy...Post Offices? Parliament has long wanted them closed all together. Council-Tax increases; in line with contracting-out? The much vaunted Private Sector riding to the rescue as we speak? Bankrupts using the law to 'avoid' creditors (including IR)? Heaven forfend.
Crime...crimes against the person have long been of a lower order than property crime, anything in the wind to alter that yet? Drug crime, is just drugs. If only alcohol were treated the same as other recreational drugs...wait, NO! The numbers would only go up, unless it were the other way around and drugs were treated as alcohol is. Coalition policy? 40% of ASBOS a success...whoopee!
NHS...Is there anything more 'apple-and-orange'? Set to change now, yes? More NHS dentists lately? Cancer survival rates comparable with most of Europe then, yes?
Education...Weigh those pigs!
Transport...Wall to wall money-grubbing bean-counters. Is there no such thing as a successful rail businessman in Britain? Did bonuses get handed back?
The UK Parliament and its eighteenth century ways, what is to be done?
I fancy Barry that you would rather the whole country joined them and their eighteenth century ways. "If you pardon my boldness, squire?"
On the other hand maybe the right time is NOW to move things forward, instead of back. - Weirder and weirder Tom. I said it before, you belong in 18th century France. But a Tallyrand or a Robespierre - that is the question....
- well said tom
- getting back to an earlier blog, sir freddie is back to plain mr.
to me this is pure populist politics, it is supposed to be a decision made by civil servants, few will believe that.
in my memory the only people to lose their titles have been those sent to prison. - Howard - he was awarded the knighthood for services to banking. Given what he actually did to banking it would be an insult, not only to banking but to the whole financial services industry if he were to be allowed to keep it. He never should have been given it in the first place and withdrawing it has put right a wrong.
- I think you're right Howard. This decision came from the top old boy, I say that chap, Goodwin isn't it, I think it prudent to find a way to, let's say, let him be cast adrift. Thank you my man, another brandy and be quick about it.
I suspect we are fast approaching D-day. Zero hour. It's 59 minutes to 12.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but very soon, sooner than you all think. it will be crunch time.
Global depression and crash. Panic will set in very quickly more quickly than you could ever imagine. The crash will be swift and severe. Billions upon billions will be worthless paper (which of course it is at the moment) but officially it will be extremely worthless.
This is not the rantings of a tin foil hat wearer but someone who sees the signs and will still be amazed by the speed of how events will unfold.
Expect sharp drops in the stock markets over a period of a few days, a week or so. Then laugh at talking head expert economists giving their take on the situation. Some perplexed, some (lying through their teeth) telling us they too spotted the signs.
Expect political leaders to try desperately to calm the markets and people telling us that all is well and there's nothing to worry about.
Then more sharp declines followed by panic measures by various states in order to "do something".
This heralds the suckers rally where naive fools see an upward swing and pile in, in the hope of buying low in order to sell high........but...
lower it goes.
And the rest is history. - Philip - you are once again well over the top but there is a nugget of truth in what you say.
There is a financial storm approaching and it is the EU, still hiding from reality, that will be at the centre of it. - A lot of fuss about (virtually) nothing, as you say Barry. This and the knighthood howd'-y-do. Great sport this kick-about stuff may be, Balls or no, but hardly a game for grown-ups.
Far better to to raise the tax in increments until such aggrandisement is no longer worthwhile.
It ill serves the banking industry, now or in the future, to seek to insist on enlisting only those most avaricious in the field. The paying-out of what are still vast sums willy-nilly, success or no, (and the current back-lash) is an entirely self-inflicted wound.
P.S.
Was the Banking bail-out entirely with borrowed money? I have the impression that most of it was QE and as such merely the printing of money and the (quiet) debasement of the Pound?
In any case...
Pay yourselves what you like, more and more of it will be taxed. I say! - Tom -QE came later, the effect is the same as there is no such thing as free money. With QE you pay through inflation.
Raising tax rates on these people would be equally foolish - that would reduce tax revenues and would have the same effect just in another way.
Why should it bother you how much the head of this company or that earns?
You do not have to buy their products if you don't want to. - Further to below Tom - take a look at the graph above on 'gilt issuance'.
You will see how the issue of gilts shot up to fund the bank bail-outs. The issuing of gilts is how the government borrows money from us. Our pensions and other collective fund managers (among others worldwide) buy them to add a low volatility asset to offset portfolio risk.
When the Bank of England decides on QE the Bank buys up gilts as a way of pumping money into the economy (by what we used to call printing money) in that way the cost is simply passed on to us through inflation instead as there is no such thing as free money.
- Barry, as I am sure I said. They (whomsoever they may be) can be paid any amount as far as I am concerned:they do not 'earn', nobody earns.[ It is this fact that backs-up your every argument.]
BUT
Taxation is every bit my concern.
Just because both of the Partys that think themselves entitled to Govern agree to offer the electorate much the same package as far as taxation is concerned is not to say that they are the least bit right so to do. Points of a strictly party-political nature could be made with regard to the electability of doing otherwise, but this has never been a game that I play.
The next election will be fought on the issue of taxation, that elephant in the closet, irrespective or whether either Red or Blue wish it. The only other scenario would be that few if any voters turn out for what could be an entire non-event.
Axe verses Cleaver?
The Rumble in the Jungle... not. The Rustle in the Rubble...more like. - Barry how can you be so heartless? I mean people are really suffering out there. I mean take this piece from the BBC which highlights the plight of one poor family in Wales.
I absolutely urge you to read this piece and I draw your attention to exactly how they spend their budget.
goo.gl/tE2Yk - you can duplicate your welsh family to thousands across the UK
- Barry, the above spin is like trying to sell us a car without an engine.
It is not just the £1 million bonus that Mr. Hester wanted, but the fact that every year, if my memory serves me right, £19 billion go on bonuses to UK executives in banks and other share-holding companies.
The figure could need researching, but it is definitely in that region.
Last year, the UK bankers alone cashed in £8 billion in bonuses.
What most people in the public are arguing, is that this money should stop leaving the share companies and wondering into the pockets of the executives, as it is on top of their established salaries.
Barry, try adding to this figure the bonuses that bankers and share-company directors have received in European countries each year, count back 10 years and add it all up, for UK and Europe, and you might find that the figures relating to executives' bonuses are so staggering, that the 1 million pounds you have tried to reduce it all to is rather misleading.
- Here, Barry, this is from the Guardian January 2010:
"The world's biggest investment banks are expected to pay out more than $65bn (£40bn) in salaries and bonuses in the next two weeks..."
How do you, Barry, expect the world economy to prosper when such massive sums are leaving the banks and wondering into the bankers' pockets, every year?
Oh and this does not include the bonuses paid out to executives of other share-holding companies, ie not banks, such as the FTSE 100 and Wall Street share companies.
So now we know where the money goes, why the world economy has gone bankrupt. The very executives have TAKEN the money from the companies they were "directing", and stuffed it shamelessly in their own pockets!
And they directed the economy of many a country into ruins.
Now try comparing this to the "1 million pounds" you were trying to sell us off! - Alexander, you are finding problems where there are no problems.
The guilty party causing damage to the world economy are governments, sovereign debt is the biggest problem holding back the economy. - barryw;
whilst we have an economic problem, i think everyone would like to see the WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER theme coming through.
Even leading people representing banks are reporting that there are to be a load more bonus's to be paid out, not all justified
and goes from the top not just the chief exec but a long way down the line.
once we sort that out we might start to see everyone pulling together - But Keith - those sentiments are all very well but surely we should draw the line over matters that will make things worse for everyone. Getting the economy moving again must be the priority, applying policies that will make things worse is madness.
- barryw;
we can share the view we have an economic problem and need to solve it.
we have no evidence that BEING IN IT TOGETHER will destabalise anything, in fact it would probably have the opposite affect - Keith - there is a great deal of evidence in the markets of overseas concern that Britain is not friendly for business due to the bonus row. n addition investors in the City are concerned and that I know as I receive daily reports and talk to market traders. I have pointed out what the real cost would be if privatisation was delayed by even one day...
I addition we know the 50p tax rate is losing the revenue money and high tax rates are damaging to growth.
All important economic issues that should take precedence over pandering to prejudice and ignorant populism. - we can solve one problem and get everyone on board by being all in it together
but have answered before - Barry, you seem to be totally oblivious to what is going on in Parliament, when saying that we're talking of problems where there are none.
Parliament sees it as a very big problem.
Parliament has realised that a few thousand chief executives of share-holding companies are taking every year tens of billions out of the economy and putting it in their own pocket.
This is why they are introducing new laws and regulations in London, to come into consideration by March this year. - Alexander - political opportunism feeding on and feeding a base and ignorant populism, sprinkled with a big dose of hypocracy, is what is happening in parliament.
I cannot possibly believe that even you actually believe your second paragraph. What on earth do you mean by 'taking millions out of the economy and putting it in their own pockets'.... that whole sentence is such tripe you cannot be serious.
Do you actually know what they do with that money?
Some will get spent, some will get invested - it is not 'trousered' to disappear. It is not removed from the economy - it circulates in the economy. - dave made a rod for his own back with his populist "all in it together" quip.
he has no choice but to keep the higher tax rate, the squeezed middle are the basis of blue support and he knows that.
they are more up in arms at executive pay and bonuses, a lower top tax rate may help some but not by very much. - and the economy carries on struggling while the wrong things get done and measure that should be taken do not - why for political reasons, cheap populism.
DC having to rely on the weak kneed LibDems does not help of course, needing to keep those twerps happy but all of it cannot be blamed on that of course,
We really have sunk low with our democracy, the lowest common denominator of foolishness and ignorance triumphs over intelligent analysis.
That is also to a large extent what got us into these problems. An attempt by the last government to buy votes by trying to solve every problem it perceived by throwing money at it. Stuff the economy, spend spend borrow and spend more and make those serfs grateful to us and dependant upon our largesse - that was what drove Brown as Chancellor and PM...
To our cost that same weak kneed irresponsible 'leadership' did its damage in the USA and most of the EU as well and that is why we are all in this mess together.
To get out of it we need real leadership and strong decisive government - something coalition politics cannot deliver.
Oh - we will get out of this - Cameron/Osborne are doing a lot right, going in the right direction, but just not enough of it or fast enough so the recovery will be all the harder and slower because of it.
We could really do with another Mrs T leading with a 150 seat majority - doing the right things and telling us why it has to be done. That is what leadership is - not just following popular prejudice.
Rant over.... - Barry, I didn't say the chief executives are taking millions out and putting it in their pockets, but tens of billions each year, which is tens of thousands of times more.
The article from the Guardian mentioned further down gives proof of this, so yes I do believe it.
Yesterday Sky News reported that the Government has ordered the banks to demand back all the bonuses paid to UK bankers involved in the PPI scandal, that is, payment protection insurance.
They cashed in bonuses for ripping off customers, the banks have been ordered to compensate the customers who were cheated, and now Gov. UK has ordered the banks to get back these bonuses from the cheating bankers involved in the scandal.
The iron belt is tightening...the campaign shall go on, the merry-go-round of self-serving executives stripping the economy bear and stuffing the money and the shares in their own pocket is coming to an end. - You really need to take some time to find out about what you speak about Alexander. You don't even remember or understand what you yourself has actually said.... You are denying you said what I used in a direct quote!! amazing.
Your knowledge of money matters is, from what you are posting, pretty dismal consisting of half (at best) understood facts.
I could tell you a lot about the PPI scandal but it would bore everyone, including me in telling you. More partially understood guff from you. - Barry, this was your quote, followed by your comment to it:
'taking millions out of the economy and putting it in their own pockets'.... that whole sentence is such tripe you cannot be serious.
This is what I had actually written:
" are taking every year tens of billions out of the economy and putting it in their own pocket."
Your quote in adverted commas does not refer to my text, you counterfeited it.
And so I repeat what already has been stated: the Government knows that the executives in the UK cannot go on taking tens of billions of pounds each year from the economy and putting it in their own pockets.
As for the PPI scandal, a sheer rip-off, the bankers who were paid bonuses for doing it MUST pay the money back to the banks, which belong to the share-holders, in particular because the banks involved MUST compensate the cheated customers for their losses. - They are not taking anything 'from the economy' that is simply an nonsense statement. What in earth do you think the economy is?
You simply magnify your financial ignorance with the last post. - Barry, these executives are extracting each year tens of billions of pounds from UK share-holding companies and making it become their private wealth.
They usually achieve this by detracting the money from dividends that should go to share-holders.
If this can be proven in Parliament, that the executives did not respect the laws and regulations on the payout of dividends to shareholders, then there might well be court cases to come, with a demand for compensation.
So they might have to repay the money they took fraudulently. - Alexander - it really is a waste of time trying to talk sense to you and explain how businesses and the economy work.
I am not the only one who has tried and it is not worth the effort.
You just dig yourself deeper and deeper into a hole that you clearly do not understand.
Once again you utter total nonsense. - Emotions..eh? Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em. Hubris as much as jingoism are on the list. On the wish list, that is.
As naturally as all other things, one man's wish list is another man's plan of action.
Setting the door-bolting of the then empty stables to one side. If Democracy and emotion are not to mix, and there must be oodles of issues regarding innate human-ness that present their oily nature to the clear-water of the Democratic ideal...
Then; Just what IS Democracy?
Plainly to some it is but a word used to describe, for the twenty-first-century, the 'good-governance' enjoyed in ages past. And to get directly to the point, of an age when ONLY the great and the landed held sway. When affairs of state were determined only by those born with an inherited stake in the nation and those deputised by them to speak for them in glowing terms and with the conviction that comes only from those who can never attain their masters greatness, but are content to bask in their reflected splendour, to lord it over the masses, with a small 'l', knowing that they carry on a tradition that claims to come from God herself.
"The rich man in his castle,
The poor man at his gate,
He made them, high or lowly,
And ordered their estate..."
Alas, even as the Faversham household grew cobwebbed and dusty the world beyond it's gates moved on...
And so too has the real world moved on. Great and bloody conflicts, pestilence and plague, printing press and pedagogy are the very stuff of the waters that have flowed under the bridge of Being since the heady days of feudalism. Common humanity has fought and taught it's way out of the mire of minion-ism.
Descartes, Paine and Gus Elen too...
"Oh! it really is a wery pretty garden
And 'Endon to the westward could be seen
And by clinging to the chimbley
You could see across to Wembley
If it wasn't for the 'ouses in between"
...have come and gone and each has in their own way enlightened the mind of mankind [sorry ladies, I mean you also].
Democracy took it's great leap forward with the creation of the USA (though they themselves have all but forgotten) and it's 'revolutionary' redefining of Democracy when at Gettysburg ol' Abe said this;-
"Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.
But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth."
A nation is neither a play-thing nor a corner-shop, but it is the very heart and soul of the people that come together and declare themselves enjoined in the struggle to go forward, to face the future and are ready to bear the burden of responsibility for their actions and the actions of their Government and to enjoy the fruits of their endeavours also.
Politics IS people and people is emotional creatures. None can wish this truth away.
Far better the Government that serves the people and does not seek to pleasure itself by pandering to the popular press or disguise it's selfish intentions behind the veil of "National Interest".
Give me; Respect before reproof and excellence before excuse and option before opinion and love before lust and lust before lucre.
And attitude before platitude!
What have convicts to discuss, but their innocence?
- so than baz;
lets take each part of your one sided argument, and give other views;
1st;DUNBLANE
Yes of course there are a lot of law abiding gun owners
throughout the UK sadly though dunblane was in a number
of shootings at that time and many deaths, so whilst law
abiding citizens got caught up in it all, there is no doubt
there was serious concern over people being able to
gain guns and use them
2; on tax, i think we all agree there is a need for a serious
review on the tax presently paid by all who pay it
3; piddling amounts of bonus's £1m just for one person alone
is hardly a piddling amount, but it isn't just this one guy
but many others who also gain so much while others
don';t know where there next meal comes from
4;minimum wage
of course your argument is poor on this one
no one wants to return to the £2 an hour jobs that were
iin the job crentre prior to the minimum age
no one, apart from barryw
5;benefits theres lots we agree on - Barry, you can't stop an avalanche once it has started.
Populism is the only way forward now for the Government. Elitism is on its way out.
The various elites have milked the economy dry, and theirs was a pyramid system destined to fail. Once the finances are exhausted, and instead a trillion pound sovereign debt is in place, as is the case now, and trillions of pounds of private debt ever-increasing, then these financial elites have no further way of acquiring the economy's finances to their own exclusive advantage.
So by natural death financial elitism must die, as it has no more finances to feed from, having sucked the populace dry. All the withered populace has to offer now are poisonous words for the elites.
It is in the natural course of things that the Government will now heed to the masses, on which they depend to be elected and supported, and will turn on the greedy elites. - This nonsense will pass Alexander.
Do you know what the economy actually is? I know the answer to that simply because your post demonstrates that you have absolutely no idea at all.
Keith - after Dunblane the law change did nothing to remove the big problems, illegally held hand guns. It just punished ordinary people who had a perfectly decent hobby/sport. Since the legislation changed illegal guns have increased. You demonstrate exactly my point.
£1m is a piddling amount on the scale of things. Specially if you look at the potential cost to the taxpayers by what has happened. Again you are demonstrating the short-sighted emotionally driven thinking I am saying is bad for policy making.
On the minimum wage. Well if my argument is poor, yours is non-existent. You did not counter any of the substantive points I made. You you have done it for me again. - Baz;
did answer your points but won't go round in circles
on dunblane, nowt to do with emotions and yep the knee jerk reaction didnt over help and still needs more attention. - On the minimum wage issue...
I can see where the confusion kicks in. Certainly it is but a sausage that any hungry dog will take. That such a diet will not sustain though has seldom been the concern of the unthinking employer.
The notions, widely broadcast by such as yourself Barry, that there is a great deal of laziness about and that benefits are way too high makes it all the easier for the incentivised manager to excuse away the high turnover of staff to their superior where any consideration of retention of staff by way of paying anything over the minimum offered is sure to be at a cost to the manager.
You often paint pretty pictures Barry, but the scene is ever the same...Dickensian. - Barry, I've got a vague suspicion that the financial elites know little about how economy works, else they wouldn't have got us into the economic disaster we are in. See 2008 banking crisis and bonus scandals!
How could they let it all happen? Because they were greedy and reckless, blinded by speculation and easy profits. - the minimum wage put a lot of cowboy employers out of business and never cost jobs as predicted.
it does not tie people down to that level as many companies that need employees for low paid jobs pay above the rate to ensure the employ/retain the best quality staff that they can. - Howard - define 'cowboy employers'.
It may have not cost many jobs but some hours have been cut back to accommodate the costs and with some marginal businesses.
It seems that you are just applying the over-simplified thinking that is behind the minimum wage and not looking 'outside the box'.
Howard - of course it does not 'tie people down' but it has lowered expectations and created a norm. You are a applying logic that just belongs to more skilled or responsible jobs.
Tom - you write a lot but say little.
The key point is that legislative decisions should be made on a rational basis. The failure of governments (and oppositions) to do so is a huge problem for us. - quite simply cowboy employers are ones that used to win contracts by employing people on cripplingly low wages.
this was particularly common in the security industry where responsible businesses ran criminal record checks on their staff and sent them on courses to ensure they were qualified to do the job.
the minimum wage meant a level playing field when tendering. - Perhaps those people working for those employers were just grateful for a job while gaining experience and looking for something better. Very few such employers would truly fit your case anyway and the problems of the 'cure' outweigh any small good it does.
Pity to close down opportunities. - Barry, the Royal Bank of Scotland, following Government advice - but I would personally call it orders - has recently adjusted its operating strategy, in particular with regards to oversees investing.
Numerous jobs at the RBS have been shed in the affected oversees sector as a result, enabling the Bank to concentrate on the local British market.
This means a lot less money will be lent out by the RBS in foreign countries or to foreign-based enterprises, whereas the owed money from abroad will continue steadily rolling in to the RBS.
You are just scare-mongering when you suggest this Bank will suffer a £19-24 million a day loss if Mr. Hester goes in one year's time should he be denied once again a bonus.
It cannot happen, because the Government has made sure the said bank has undertaken essential restructuring.
It's almost like saying: "the doggie has had his bone taken away".
The house won't fall down, Barry! Not even for a £1 million pound bonus taken away. - Alexander - please try to read and understand what is actually said. The £19m to £24m is the loss to the taxpayer for every day the privatisation of the banks (all of those bailed out) is delayed - its interest payments on the borrowing to bail the banks out paid by us all part of the spending deficit.
- It's a very extreme Cavalier attitude you display in proposing this 'change' Barry.
Why you persist in advocating a totally free hand be given to all manner of businesses and to let the entire risk fall upon the customer, (who seeks and receives very little by way of profit from any transaction), is beyond me.
It matters not a jot that there is a requirement from other business people, insurers, that a warning be placed on a coffee cup. This whole matter came to the fore solely because (a certain) big-business possessed the freedom you seek to return to them. The freedom to vend scalding hot beverages with not the sense to question if it was the least bit sensible to do so.
Would you rather chain-saws were handed out willy-nilly?
Barry, I know you do well by your clients and long may such continue.
BUT
The risk, with your model, is the client's risk. No doubt much discussion takes place and the client's risk could easily be greater if their IFA, working on commission, got greedy. I suspect that an agreed model of investment: steady-as-you-go, decent but not extreme return, would suit hard working long-term minded folk.
But returning to a state of affairs where a perfectly common purchase could, through thoughtless neglect or over-keen focus on the bottom line, result in serious injury is just not on.
We each and all enjoy the real benefit of H&S not because we are thick, but because most business people do not have customer focus or customer respect, but a devil-may-care, here today gone tomorrow, devil-take-the-hindmost, bottom line first to last attitude.
H&S transforms all businesses into caring sharing enterprises just like yours Barry.
Let's hear it for H&S..HIP-HIP.... - I have never said a totally free hand Tom - I am saying the pendulum has swung too far towards risk aversion and protecting people from the consequences of their own actions.
Common sense is needed and a sense of proportion.
That is what I try to apply to my investment portfolios alongside a whole range of factors that relate to individual clients and their aims and objectives. I take far more risk with my own investments that I do with clients.
That is the point really - H&S has simply gone much too far and lost all sense of proportion. You mention coffee, we all know its hot and no-one actually checks and reads the warning on the cup before picking it up - the warning is there just to provide a defence in case the vendor was sued. That goes to the core of the problem. - Barry, if it is so, that £19 - 24 million a day have to be, or might be, spent by the State for the bailed-out banks, then that is a reason more why we should not pamper with million pound bonuses the bankers who did it, who led the banks into a situation where they have to be bailed out at such costs.
And you are telling us that we must let these bankers go on taking million pound bonuses, as a pat on the back in return for causing us to pay £19-24 million a day for their reckless behaviour.
I think you have got the priorities wrong, Barry. These bankers should be paying the 19- 24 million pounds a day to the treasury, from their past bonuses, and not taking more bonuses on top of it. - barry refers to risk takers in his blog, but there are two distinctly different types.
the individual that starts up his/her own business with a loan or putting their house up as collateral and then we have the cavalier executive who puts the shareholders and employees at risk.
over the years i have known both types and known which ones i prefer. - You really do not understand a thing Alexander. No matter how many times something is explained you still fail to grasp simple concepts and it is not just me who gets exasperated with you either. Frankly it is not worth try to explain yet again to you.
Howard -There are many types of risk takers and all businesses have to take risks all the time. I have known many a buccaneer businessman but they have all been running private businesses and when they succeed in building one of sufficient size to float they invariably bail out and start another because at that point it is no longer a challenge.
Those who stick with it tend to turn for their adrenaline rush to other activities, Branson being one example.
Those who run PLCs have board responsibilities and while they still have to take risks they are of a different type and cannot act without Board agreement. Not the same thing.
There is room for all those types with their different skill sets and a need for them as well. - Oh go on, Barry, just for old times sake!
- I think barryw your comments above says it all
you can afford private health care
sadly many can't - Yes Keith and you miss the point of that comment - I have it because the NHS system is not up to scratch. We need to get rid of the NHS so everyone can have the kind of healthcare that only those of us who have private medical have.
- well baz;
you havn't convinced me - I doubt any politician would ever suggest getting rid of the health service and replace it with private health care BarryW...so I reckon its here to stay. Citizen UK has the most amazing and endearing fondness for it...a politician of any hue interfering with all this affection would have a short career in public life. The NHS may not be perfect but neither are we the human..perhaps thats why we all like it so much, we can identify with it, and it is above all...ours. We know it has faults but havent we all..perhaps its the imperfection of it all that stirs our emotions.
The Prime Minister has made a bold stand with Lansley today on the reforms. Maybe they are just tweeking with evolution which is the latest claim, or maybe they are doing a root and branch reform. Most people dont understand it. Whatever the case anyway...it is not popular, with every notable health body now against it. The ones that understand whats going on.. are agin it! - PaulB - to correct you, the way you phrase your comment is the sort of thing that prevents a serious discussion of alternatives to our failing system.
I have written in previous posts that we should replace the NHS with an insurance funded scheme along the lines of what they have in Europe. Germany being a prime example of what I would like to see here.
You said 'getting rid of the health service and replacing it with private medical' is a phrase that conjurs up all sorts of incorrect needless fears.
The love of the NHS with it almost becoming an untouchable religion is what is preventing a sensible debate and the development of better medical system in this country.
There are other better ways to deliver health care for all 'free at the point of need'. - insurance pays out based on the premiums, people on the minimum wage would not get the same treatment as someone wealthy, it stands to reason.
if anyone wants private care at present and can afford it they are free to do so, nobody is forced to use the n.h.s. - we see in the U.S.A., WHY private insurance is not a good idea
your asked first if you have the insurance if you dont your left to die - Howard and Keith - you again demonstrate why a rational debate cannot be held over health.
Look to the European insurance based systems, there is the model we need. Once again we see red herrings introduced, the USA, no-one mentioned wanting their system - it is completely different.
No-one in Germany would want to swap their system for our NHS, rich or poor. France also has a superior system along with much of the rest of Europe and yes, they are insurance based.
We have had this discussion before. - I am watching a programme concerning the the reality that is medical insurance and treatment US style. (on Russia Today, rt.com) Woah, as the cowboys say. This is certainly NOT the way to go, but how many European companies are involved in the present part-privatisation of our NHS?
Tory, he speak with forked-tongue. - barry
you have not explained how the german system works, just made the claim that it is better.
are you saying that irrespective of the premium paid everyone gets the same treatment? - Tom - totally irrelevant, the only thing is the medical care not who delivers it.
Howard - I had a blog where I explained the German system on here a while ago. Suffice for now to say it is insurance based and no-one is denied treatment. The important thing is that there is a separation between the funders of the care (insurance companies) and those who decide on what tests to do and diagnose treatment. As I know from personal experience that is a crucial factor.
As for equality of treatment? Are you suggesting that exists in the UK under the NHS? Have you not heard of the lottery postcode? Equality is a myth in any system and a distraction from what is important - the need for quality care free at the point of use. - Higher Taxes!!!
Tax IS good for all of us. :)
-Change the 50p rate to a far higher banded system that would mean 90p+ at the top end
-Vastly increase Capital Gains Tax and broaden it's scope.
-Tax turnover instead of profit where tax avoidance is costing the country billions.
-Drop many or all instances of tax-detectability for insurance etc.
-Give scope for the reduction of Business Rates for small businesses
-Re-think the present draconian attack on the benefit system
I am not going to hold your breath either Barry.
- I see you want to cripple the economy then Tom. I good recipe that for an unemployment rate of 50% or even more....
- It is plain to see that your way of thinking Barry was very much to blame for where we are now. Unless this disaster is all down to the extra 10p tax?
It is surely right-wing thinking that sees the poor, and the poorest and the getting more poor by the minute, as able to stand a bit more bashing. It strikes me that it is those who have the least that are set to bear most of the risk again.
You beat the dog because you can, you beat the dog again because it cries out and you continue to beat the dog until it cries no more.
What economy Barry?
It is you and your ilk that HAVE crippled 'our' economy, but are not prepared to offer stick nor chair, support not comfort.
It is hardly toil, to sit on the side lines and goad your wet chums and their soggy accomplices into yet more acts of aggression against the weakest amongst us while extolling the virtues of exactly the conduct and attitude that is responsible for 'our' economy's current plight.
If those with money will not risk it why should those without offer them the sop of 10p? - most of what you have written is what a lot of people are thinking tom, those at the bottom are being bashed when they have very left to cut back on.
those on middle incomes think the same although they will not suffer in the same way.
having watched the scenes from athens recently we have to be thankful that the great british public are more stoical about such things. - well said TOM
- What has crippled the economy Tom, in the real world that is, happens to be big government.
As always you on the left take aim at the wrong culprit.
In respect of the UK no-one but Gordon Brown was responsible for the high public spending and the deficit that resulted. No-one but Gordon Brown was responsible for screwing up banking regulation, no-one but Gordon Brown was responsible for getting the inflation brief to the Bank of England wrong resulting in the private debt and housing bubble.
The fact that many European governments were 'big government' fellow travellers of Labour is no excuse for the utter balls up made of the UK economy.
Move into the real world Tom and learn about economic cause and effect. You cannot carry on like Keith as an ostrich with your head in the sand. - Problem solved Barry. Just grab a bunch of tory "rebels" to complain and everything is sorted. I mean the punch they landed the other day complaining about wind farms certainly did the trick.....................erm, not.
- The bankers went bust by 2008 because they were virtually allowed to do what they wanted without restriction.
Let the bankers loose and they'll go amok and bring the whole economy down while lining their pockets. Severe regulation is needed to safeguard the savers' money. - Alexander - lets be clear, SOME banks did take risk, too many risks, HBOS and RBS being the worse.
They were only able to take those risks because Gordon Brown changed the banking regulations in 1997 and then openly encouraged them to do so in a speech at the Mansion House.
That though did not cause the crisis. The economy went into a cyclical downturn in 2007 that led to the banking crisis, the risks they had taken exposed them to US toxic debt and the unknown consequences froze the movement of capital around the system.
The problems now are more to do with the level of excessive government spending not only here but also in Europe and over the it is made worse by the Euro.
In this country Gordon Brown thought he had banned boom and bust and spent as if the boom could go on forever. It was total madness. - barryw
ostrich indeed!!!!! todays credit rating looks bad for the govt - could come down to a double a rating in the next few weeks.
- Yes there has been a credit warning. Exactly, I have been saying for a long time that Osborne has not been cutting public spending enough and this is the second recent development that has justified that view.
It also vindicates full the above blog.
Imagine though Keith how much worse it would be if your mate Darling was Chancellor, cutting even more slowly than Osborne, we really would be rightly stuffed by now. There is no satisfaction in this for you, or Brian come to that. - BAZ;
There's certainly no satisfaction seeing this cobbled together govt squabble and like you say osbourne as inactive as he is.
There are of course differing opinions on the best wa forward, but of course this lot did say they would sort it, when in fact the credit ratings shows they are no better. - Keith - Osborne is far from inactive, he is just not doing enough thanks to the LibDem wets.
'Differing opinions about the way forward' - well one this is certain we have to cut spending. No credible alternative exists. You cannot spend yourself out of a deficit because that just increases the deficit (and debt...). - where should more cuts be made barry, your blog just refers to public spending.
- Howard - there is nothing I would spare from cuts except Defence as that department never did benefit from Brown profligacy and that is the most important role of the state.
The whole point is that we have no choice - when you spend too much you have to cut back. What is true for you is true for the government.
- yes barry but what departments budgets would you take the knife too the most?
- Howard - I am not party to the individual detailed budgets.
One obvious thing to do is to start cutting back on the benefit culture that has been allowed to expand so disastrously. All increases in all benefits, apart from long term disability benefit and pensions, should be restricted to 2% below inflation, frozen when/if inflation gets to 2% or less.
But there is much more that must be done and no budget should be spared other than defence. - So are you suggesting, Barry, the 50p rate be dropped and put at 0?
- Don't be daft Alexander - back to 40p of course for now but eventually we all need lower flatter simpler taxes, a single rate for combined income taxes (that included NI).
- barryw;
I as always share some of your view on benefits, but would need that safety net to make sure those that needed benefits were still able to get them.
on other cuts we probably have differences of opinion on how to restart the economy - Totally in favour of a safety net but we have far more than a safety net these days, so much that some see it as a career option. We cannot afford this.
So what then are your ideas? come on speak up as I have only seen you complain about what is being done. - Barryw
I don't do complaining,
just on the benefits system, I feel we are close on this issue although i'm not sure how the safety net would be created.
but there is no doubt benefits is to easy to claim, and has been proved that not enough checks in place or regular enough to see if claimants are genuine or not.
every day i see the abuse of the system
something that needs sorting
SO there are big savings here if done correctly - Still no ideas from you about getting growth into the economy I see Keith...
- one thing that won't do it barryw
is widespread cuts to everything
giving people no hope, and little money
- Keith - public spending cuts have to be made simply because of the deficit.... Now do you understand what the deficit actually is. It would be as if you had an income of £1500 per month and were spending £2000 per month with the extra beeing rolled up on a credit card.
How long can that continue and what should you do? It is no different for the government, yes even governments cannot spend beyond their means forever.
This problem has been going on since the last recession in 1990.... The then major government allowed spending to be maintained while tax revenues fell with a view to getting the budget in balance during the economic growth cycle... This is what Keynes says if you know who he was... (not that I am a Keyseyan... another argument)
During the long period of growth spending and income should have been allowed to balance with a surplus repaying the accumulated debt.
Sadly Brown did not do that - he kept increasing spending increasing the deficit and rolling up more debt, he claimed the boom times would never end (an end to boom and bust he said) and went wild with his spending.
By 2005 the deficit had grown to a level that there was no chance it would balance in time for the next recession during which it could be allowed to increase. This is what is called the structural deficit. That, of course, did not even include the off balance sheet spending that is a massive timebomb as well. That we now know built up in the period he was supposed to be following Ken Clarke's spending plans, sheer deceit.
In 2007 the downturn started and because of the mistakes of Brown over bank regulation in 1997 the banks then hit the rocks adding more interest to the deficit and rolling up more debt upon debt.
We were in a truly appalling position and it is that from which we are struggling to recover from not helped by Brown's fellow travellers in the EU.
There are few thing certain in economics.
One thing is certain if we do not maintain confidence that the deficit will be dealt with and balanced well before the next economic downturn (typically this will be in about 8 years time) we will be back up the creek without a paddle. This is why the markets from whom the government borrows money needs reassurance.
Lose that confidence and our interest rates will shoot up, mortgages sky high, business borrowing costs up too. Imagine what that will do to the economy and growth prospects - 5million unemployed would be around the corner.
Osborne has only done the minimum cuts needed to protect our credit rating and that is a major factor affecting interest rates. He needs to cut a lot more and to reduce the burden on business, it can only be businesses in the private sector, private sector activity only, not public sector or the secondary public sector that can get us out of the mess we are in.
Now I have tried in simple language to explain at least shake off your Labour blinkers and see the real economic world.
The argument is about the level of cuts only, Osborne's minimum or more substantial cuts.
The is no other option available. Darling, if your mob won the election, would by now have ether increased his cuts programme or would have already lost the AAA rating and we would have much higher interest rates and by now well into a renewed recession as that would come on top of the Eurozone problems that have already dampened growth. - Apparently bankers and financial institutions have named March 23rd as the day that Greece defaults. If you have any friends or families over there it might be a good idea to let them know so that they can plan contingencies when it finally happens.
- Yes that is correct Philip that is when Greece has a massive amount of its debt coming due to be repaid. I have posted before about that.
- it is now argued that italy are in a similar position despite the new austerity measures.
will be much more serious if they default. - That is right Howard and the risks of 'contagion' are very high. Default will not solve their problems either - they have to devalue as well which would be one way to address deficit spending issues and help restore some health to their economies. They can only devalue by getting out of the Euro.
- Barry, you mention the Falklands.
The Treaty between Britain and La France does not put in question British sovereignty over the Falklands, there is no clausal whereby the French hold a reserve with regards to British sovereign rights over these our islands in the south Atlantic.
This should be considered of essential strategic benefit to our Country, and should make the Argentinians think very carefully if ever they contemplated an attack.
Adding to this, our oil reserves in the Falklands territorial waters are of strategic interest to Britain, Western Europe and the USA, in particular considering the hostile attitude of the Iranian government and their threats to close the Hormuz passage in the Persian Gulf.
Now you know yourself I am not for military wars, but self defence is important.
This alliance is of vital importance to France, because there is no guarantee that there will be no war in the future, such as some awful uproar in the Gulf area.
France is unlikely to be unreliable when their national security depends enormously on an alliance with Britain. There is perhaps more to it than just cost-saving. I'm sure you have also realised Iran is intent on an arms-race with the whole of the West. They have also made sure that only radical people get to the summit of Iranian leadership, excluding moderate candidates from participating in elections.
I thought you had an eye for these things, Barry, for all things strategic. - all i am going to say on this matter is,keep your friends close but keep your enamys closer...
- Alex many of the British casualties during the Falklands war were caused by French Exocet missiles sold to the Argies, as I remember. Also an Iraqi Exocet crippled the USS Stark in 1987 with the loss of 37 lives. You don't sell weapons to your friends' enemies. If you do you deserve not to be trusted in the future.
- Pardonne moi...
1/
As reported in the Telegraph...
How France helped us win Falklands war, by John Nott
"FRANCE was Britain's greatest ally during the Falklands war, providing secret information to enable MI6 agents to sabotage Exocet missiles which were desperately sought by Argentina, according to Sir John Nott, who was Defence Secretary during the conflict.
In his memoirs he reveals that while President Reagan was pressurising Lady Thatcher to accept a negotiated settlement France helped Britain to win the conflict.
The 22 Royal Marines who took on Argentine Falklands invasion forceAlthough Lady Thatcher clashed with President Mitterrand over the future direction of Europe, he immediately came to her aid after Argentine forces invaded the Falklands in April 1982."
[from another source]
The loss of the Sheffield was our own mistake...
"...the only significant mistake was the belief that the
Argentinans wouldn't use Exocet missiles. If this possibility was
seriously analysed, then the original attack might have been
recognized. The British were wrong, and ended up learning the hard
way. " - P.S.
I am not happy with the way my cut-n-paste turned out. For the full article try this...
telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1387576/How-France-helped-us-win-Falklands-war-by-John-Nott.html - Peter - to be fair we sold the Argentinian two Type 42 destroyers in the 70's as well.
Tom - yes that is true but there is a long story behind that very diplomatic statement from John Nott that has since been revealed. The information was not given freely by the French, it had to be squeezed out of them while they were also preparing to sell more Exocets to the Argentinians, if I remember correctly a consignment was actually loaded onto a ship at one point during the war.
You are also not being fair to Reagan. Yes they did try to push a negotiated settlement, but when the chips were down they did supply all the satellite intelligence we asked for and early on offered to lend us one of their old carriers as a platform for the Harriers. - Peter, were the exocet missiles sold to Argentina before the invasion of the Falklands? If so, it was no different to when Britain sold weapons to Argentina before that invasion.
- There is clearly nothing more 'posturing' than raising the nil rate band then clawing it all back through reductions in tax credits.
This move would then benefit ONLY those on high pay.
Why not nil VAT on domestic fuel?
Dropping the Green Tax on domestic fuel too.
As for the 10p (or so) reduction at the top end...yet more posturing. This 50p rate affects nobody that has 'earned' such monies in any case, it is more correctly self-awarded. Just because there is a back-scratching process that lends semblance of arms-length magnitude setting it is mere window-dressing. And what is more 'posturing' than that?
Let those so afraid of the 50p rate bight the bullet and show us that they are made of sterner stuff...and then let such egregious relief be considered.
The purchase of luxuries? The very cherry on the icing of the posturing I have mentioned above. Motes and beams, motes and beams.
Let us not forget either that Balls etc. had the green-eyed support of the loyal opposition.
Now, the Balls stuff, that IS Political Posturing.
I hope it is as sunny where you are Barry as it is here. Have a good day. - No Tom, those on high pay (£100k and more) have their personal allowances withdrawn progressively to zero.
Tax credits should never have been introduced and should be phased out over a period. Far too complex and expensive to administer.
I am quite happy to drop all the green rubbish but we do have VAT on fuel, rightly or wrongly and under EU rules it cannot be removed.
As for the 50p, once again you are ignoring the established facts of life and placing your own anti-wealthy agenda before the revenue needs of the government. The fact is that this level of tax has an adverse impact on tax collected and this has a compounding effect - the longer it stays in place the worse impact it will have. We cannot afford to lose that extra tax revenue. I want the rich to pay more tax and to get that we need lower and simpler taxes.
Yes Tom - it is a very nice sunny day here is Dover -sad I am stuck in my office... - Barry, I would agree reducing the 50p tax rate to 25p, if in return boardroom bonuses are reduced to no more than 20% of the annual income of high salaries (£150,000+).
- Alexander - the 50p rate should be reduced back to 40p not 25p, don't know where you got that figure. Eventually I do want a simple flat rate system with the same low rate for everyone. That will be the best way to increase tax revenue and will be fairer all round.
It is none of your business, or mine, what bonuses are paid by private firms. That is for them and the shareholders only and is a matter for the market which, at that level is an international one. - I think the zero rate on food should only apply to fresh food. Processed food should be at 5% and the unhealthiest stuff (cakes, biscuits and anything high in salt or sugar) at 17.5%. At the same time food in pubs and restaurants should come down from 17.5% to 5%. They did that in France a few years back and it generated 100,000 new jobs in catering.
- Interesting thoughts Peter and there is a lot of sense in having a low VAT rate introduced to processed food. It would be a good idea to have a low rate for those restaurants and pubs, like yours, that sell quality meals made on the premises from fresh produce but leave it at the standard VAT rate (I would keep it at 20%) for those who sell processed microwave cheap rubbish, like Wetherspoons.
- Regarding my post below regarding restaurants - administering it though would be a nightmare and overly complex.
- Barry, the the 50p rate can remain at 50p for all I care.
- Bonkers Alexander, what about the greater good?
- But Barry, if one tries compromising and reasoning, such as I did, and accommodating your proposals on tax, you remain utmost uncompromising!
If the reduction of the 50p rate in return for regulation on bonuses is not a form of debate and reasonable compromise, then what is?
If we don't compromise to reach an agreement on salaries and tax, we'll end up going back to extreme positions that are miles apart.
Try reading my last post again, it mentions a maximum 20% bonus on high salaries from £150,000 upwards.
Would you find it easier if I wrote "the maximum salary should not exceed £36,000 a year and no bonus may be attached"?
That would be about as extreme as what you are proposing, namely a significant reduction of the 50p rate but unlimited bonuses.
Try being less unreachable, Barry! - Why compromise?
1 - a high tax rate means less revenue for HMRC and we cannot afford that.
2 - What a private business chooses to pay people is no business of you or I unless either of us is a shareholder.
There is nothing to compromise over simply because you want to interfere in something that is nothing to do with you. - No, Barry! Shareholders have no binding say whatsoever over boardroom salaries and bonuses and payouts in general. The Government have stated that this situation has to be changed. So your facts here are wrong, as you imply that shareholders do have a binding say over executives' pay,
You do know that RBS is over 80% state-owned, meaning that bank belongs over 80% to the tax-payers. I am a British tax payer.
Generally speaking, bonuses that are higher than an annual top salary drain finances away from share companies and away from the share-holders, away from the workers in these companies and away from the general economy, causing high-street retailers to close down shops, high mortgages and house evictions, debt-dependency of the impoverished and more.
We must continue to interfere and ask the Government to stop all bonuses on high salaries, and possibly to bring boardroom salaries down to £36,000 a year, no compromise! The Government might compromise and bring top boardroom salaries down to £72,000 a year then, but with a 45p rate.
I hope they do! - No Alexander. You are, as so often misinterpreting what I am saying.
I believe that if you own a part of a company you should have a say over salaries and I support the government moves to ensure that shareholders have a say.
What I am telling you is that if you do not own shares then keep your interfering nose out as the salaries a company pays is nothing to do with you. In other words mind your own b!**@y business.
You know b-all about running a company and have no idea about appropriate remuneration. - By the way Alexander - Your knowledge of financial matters can be likened to listening to a 19th century navvi lecturing about brain surgery with about the same chance of the patient surviving...
- bit over the top barry?
your blog of course, but it will put people off responding when they see your last two posts. - Barry, if a top salary on the boardroom has a bonus three times higher than the annual salary itself, the executive who receives it won't care it the 50p rate stays or goes, because he'll get six-fold in bonus of what he paid on tax!
That's why I'm in favour of reducing the 50p rate in return for regulating bonuses, as the wider economy will benefit if tens of billions of pounds paid on top-earners' bonuses was distributed fairly among the share-holders and workers, to the general benefit of the economy. - It entertains Howard and sometime patience wears a bit thin in some directions....
- howard
i share your views - That Lame Fux echoes your own views, and as echoes tend to be less resonant than the original voice and given that he is closer to the ear of Dave and GO his more timid tone may only be because he may well be listened to.
Especially as he is also careful to inject a liberal sprinkling of fulsome praise into what he has to say, the better to receive at least a benign regard from those who have his career in their hands.
What sparkling rationale too. Making it easier and cheaper to hire and fire in order to reduce unemployment which too will reduce the taxes that go to fund this easy-idleness.
No doubt the abolition of the minimum wage will be a major plank in the Conservative & Unionist Manifesto. Something which is bound to complete the 'ideas-on-the-table' cruet-set beside the privatisation of Education and Health. Plus, there is no shortage of Pickles.
From cobbled together coalition to cold-collation in one fell leap. - Fox is talking absolute nonsense. Whatever "growth" he dreams about will be completely and utterly knocked out of the ring by this government's energy policies. From Bloomberg today:
"Scotland and England, haggling over the possible breakup of the U.K., are competing to create a hub for the country’s $52 billion offshore wind industry."
£52 billion. That's £52 billion.
What a clown. - on the bright side philip they will save 1 billion if they take bus passes away.
- Oh gawd Philip...
While I am not a fan of the green energy push and the costs it entails, that does not stop other more sensible measures being taken to help business and growth. On the contrary it makes it even more important to act in the way Liam says. - That's because you, like so many conservative mp's, fail to see the bigger picture. The push to green energy will export industry abroad because of the higher cost of energy. It's that simple even a tory could see that but they don't have the bottle or vision to tell big dave that.
Add to that the extra red tape and regulations to stop the planet warming, heh, heh, and you have a recipe for economic disaster.
Save you Oh Gawd for more of this nonsense from cameron.
Sometimes I think the tories realise how serious this is.
Remember £52 billion. Oh Gawd indeed. - .......Oh dear it seems that Liam Fox isn't alone in the stupidity stakes in the conservative party. Apparently George Osbourne is set to increase the carbon price floor by a factor of two in the next budget.
Vote Tory get Caroline Lucas.
I notice Barry insists on never answering questions surrounding the tories lunatic energy policies I put forward. All I hear is spin cut and pasted from Conservative home. - Philip - I am not a Conservative spokesman and if you read what I say on the subject I do not approve of green energy policies I just do not have your crazy over-riding obsession.
Neither do I cut and paste from ConHome either. Views are mine as a government critic from the right of the Party. - but barryw
you are a conservative fanatic - Just winding you up Barry. It has to be said, however, that if our prime minister's hobby was to position his head between a door and it's frame and asked passers by to slam the door hard on his head one could be forgiven for thinking something was slightly amiss.
If, before say every press conference, he started proceedings by breakdancing and spinning on his head once again people would understandably have grave concerns over his mental well being.
The same is true when it comes to his worries for the environment and the government's energy policies which follow.
In the face of mountains of evidence that there is much debate to be had surrounding environmental issues and given that the policies of this government will inflict so much damage to our economy don't you think that we should be questioning exactly where this is all going?
You describe me as having an over-riding obsession with this issue.
Er, nope, I don't think so. But even if I did at least my perceived obsession is costing the country not one penny.
The same cannot be said for Cameron's obsession which is exactly what it is and will cost us, is costing us, hundreds of billions of pounds.
If he is wrong on this issue, which undoubtedly he is and you know he is really I'm sure, why is he still committed to it?
Strange don't you think? - Ah yes...
What it is to be a beer-can stuck in a tree?
Don't people know, that even after it has been sucked-dry the very stuff of which it is made can be re-used and re-used time and again. That with the right attitude no beer-can need ever be truely abandoned.
How simple it all is and yet how difficult it proves for such asset management to be realised.
How should we proceed?
Is it that there are too many silly regulations that make it harder to recycle this (proven) asset?
Does the can itself prefer, like it's erstwhile 'employer', to lie about the countryside or loll idly in the gutter?
Might it be the fact that this valuable asset comes as a free accompaniment to the commodity it contained (and which is so readily consumed), be reason enough to unthinkingly dispose of it in ways that are not only profitless but costly?
Perhaps charging a nominal amount by way of deposit will not go far enough to rid us of this blight to our environment. Regulation or no, it is obviously easier to abandon the asset than to see it's true worth.
One rather obvious answer would be to assign a real value to the asset so that even after what it contained had been consumed some enterprising soul could still profit.
In short...
Why not assign a value to the work done and pay the 'unemployable' youth something over and above their dole?
"Lord who made the lion and the lamb,
You decreed I should be what I am--
Would it spoil some vast, eternal plan..."
- First of all this is not just about the young.
In addition, doing this for no direct financial reward is good for them and is in itself a test of character. Like I say the real benefit is much more significant than any immediate cash.
Many of us do a lot of things without thought of reward after all. - I don't get it. The tories reckon that they want people to join this scheme but fail to note that many of those who do end up being promised long term work from a company but then the rug is pulled from under their feet and it's back to the dole office so that the next tranche of "recruits/slaves" are signed up.
Add to that the ridiculous regulations brought in by the tories which make it far more difficult and expensive to employ someone and the net result is where we are now - ie. another hair-brained scheme by cameron and his crew.
Next! - Philip - about 50% find work. Others do not, but the scheme creates an opportunity for them to prove themselves that would not otherwise exist - that's the point and it is a good one. Without this they would have no hope and no opportunity to show they are up to holding down a job. Besides, I wonder how many of those who did not get work simply failed to show they are up to it.
- Yes I accept that Barry to a point. Do you not think that as it stands the government are merely tinkering with ideas to improve the employment figures? I've alluded to, in the past, that what is needed is a grand vision to help us all through what is set to be a major depression which will come sooner than most folk think. It's part of the business cycle but worse. Although there is nothing that can be done to avert this event it's important to position ourselves so that we can ride out some of the worst effects.
The job scheme is a mere sticking plaster, you must agree with that, but measures must be taken, radical measures, so that we end up as a backwater in terms of our global rankings.
From early schooling to training school leavers in areas which we can if not lead the world at least take part in the competition is vital. A concerted effort to skill up the next generation instead of multiculti/equality based/child centric/ environmental propaganda type teaching has done much damage. Gove has made a good start but his ideas need to go nationwide rather than to the wealthier parts of the UK where concerned parents join together to make the best for their children.
I fear that Cameron is scared to take the big, bold steps needed to radically change public attitudes on all sorts of issues lest the like of Polly Toytown write something nasty in the Marxist daily about it.
Oh and as an aside Cameron could be really, really brave and admit that he's made a muppet of himself on the global warming issue. A grand mea culpa would set him up as someone brave enough to take it on the chin and man up about things.
This ain't gonna happen though. Imagine the headline in his daily read: "The Guardian thinks Mr. Cameron is wrong". - Barry, benefits did not make finding work unviable for me, but imperative.
Furthermore, not being allowed to work is a nightmare, one bursts with energy that others are trying to tap up inside you, forcing you to remain unemployed, with benefits that see you reach the end of the two weeks with tuppence.
You mention the Poles who are keen to work in the UK.
Well, as no-one employed me, I became self-employed, and, following the laws of fair trade and commerce and fair competition, I deem myself in no way inferior to a team of hard-working Polish painters.
My motto is: "they say that can do everything...but can they?" - All credit to you Alexander for getting out there and doing what you are doing. We need more to do just that. Sadly there remain many who are happy to just take benefits without helping themselves and these are unemployable and there needs to be ways to change that around.
Philip - One measure might be tinkering but if combined with other you get a package of measure them sum of which becomes substantial. Without the IDS changes the WE scheme would not be up to much at all. More needs to be done as I have said above. - Yes I agree that it is hard to break the cycle of not working, being perpetuated by a culture of benefits. I also agree that employers see employment as a risk and that incentives must be made. But as for this ridiculous 'Workfare' being an answer to anything, I find laughable.
First of all I find it shocking how the point can be missed in such a catastrophic way. Engaging people in work is ultimately about engaging them with Capitalism; goods and services for profit and income. How can a government be so obsessed with this idea only when it suits them. Even Tescos (and it pains me to say that) have realised the failing of this confused governments scheme. How are we to educate those who do not associate income to wage labour when they do not get paid and ultimately have no job at the end?
A worse outcome of this ill-conceived slave labour is that people could easily be turned against the idea of employment even more, if a job is not offered at the end. And why would it be, as many of these positions did not exist before the scheme?
Work is about pride and although we are all happy to do many things without pay and need experience, this scheme is just an opportunity for exploitation. Tescos have seen it, the public already knew it, yet the government blindly carry on.
I think the graphic above sums it up! It shows a cycle that doesn't actually result in full time work and ultimate progress. I can also assure you that the descriptors listed are far from profound when engaging with some of the 'jobs' reported. - DT - Tesco seems to have buckled under to the campaign by a load of mad Trots....
Seriously - I don't think that you really actually believe in all this trite student language that was so fashionable among the naive and unworldly back in the 70's... - Good comeback.
- The boundary changes meet your sole criteria Barry. They are designed to (vastly) improve the chances of the Tories come the next election. Dress it how you may.
The House of Lords should be done away with, full stop.
It is, to say the least, an utter embarrassment to this (our) merest notion of Democracy.
"More give than take."
(poor old Mandy Rice-Davis)
You would say that, wouldn't you. - Re-balancing Tom and you know it.
The inbuilt advantage that Labour have due to a lot of very small urban safe seats is intolerable and simply wrong, unfair and undemocratic.
We will, through the changes, have fewer safe seats and more marginals and that has to be good. - if for a moment i thought barryw was correct in this assumption then maybe it would gain support.
but these changes are realy about the tories keeping control of number 10.
it would be interesting to see in these proposals what seats were likely to change hands after the changes - Keith - this is about democracy only.
Justify this:
2005 election: Lab 35.2% of vote = 349 seats: Con 32,4% of vote = 198 seats: 2.2% Labour vote lead = 62 seat majority.
2010 election: Lab 29.0% of vote = 258 seats: Con 36.1% of vote = 306 seats: 7.1% Conservative lead = hung parliament.
Nobody can justify keeping such an electoral imbalance who believes in democracy.
This is manly because of lot of small urban seats where a donkey with a red Labour rosette would win (and usually does...)
We need more marginal seats and this change delivers that though it does not fully address the democratic deficit.
If you disagree with the change Keith - justify those figures. - There is no place for the house of lords in an elected Democracy. Its abolition is 400 years overdue. It is the height of senseless big government, and with the Localism Bill coming into function, all the more reason to ask for the demise of the house of lords.
- Find out about the role the Lords has played Alexander and the working of our democracy. Yes, look too at how it has operated over the last 400 years and you would be very surprised how important a role it has had in securing your freedoms and our democracy.
- 2005 election. Red + Blue = 67.4% (of vote?)
2010 election. Blue + Red = 65.1% (of vote?)
As ever if logic is called for false logic will do.
-There just happen to be more than two Partys with seats in the HoCs and what is required to form a legitimate Government is a majority of seats in the whole HoCs, not just more seats OR more votes than the one other Party you choose to recollect.
I, as you well know, am all about more than the,32.6%(2005) or the 34.9%(2010). What about the 30%+ that take your lead Barry and do not see the point in Democracy, but know, no matter what, that Government is solely about the Red and the Blue? Who is to enlighten them?
That your entire focus is on the thickness of the cigarette-paper that separates the Blue from the Red gives the lie to your talk of Democratic Deficit! - One thing the last election demonstrated was the undesirability of a coalition government as it leads to a mish mash of a government programme decided behind closed doors rather than the programme that get the most votes.
If you have, as you seem to want, a PR form of election then that will be the norm and no-one will get what they voted for.
Polls also show, overwhelmingly, that the public no longer like the idea of coalition as they see just this.
Our first past the post system has served the test of time and just needs some minor changes as proposed creating more marginals and fewer safe seats for it to carry on serving us well for the future. - Barry, the house of lords is a part of big government.
In the process of redefining government nationally and locally, and changing from centralised big government, the upper house is superfluous, as we have the House of Commons. - have to agree with alex on this one, big government in action.
lorry loads of unelected persons with all the staff they need pulling to pieces proposed legislation put forward by our elected representatives. - Alexander and Howard - Big government is not the institutions of government but what the government tries to do. Basically small government is about doing a lot less and letting people alone.
The HoL as a reviewing chamber performs an invaluable part of the checks and balances within our constitution.
As I have said you should find out more about the role it has. In many ways the HoL is deserving of more respect than the HoC - the standard of debate alone justifies that. - don't talk down barry, i do know the history of the house of lords.
the problem is that is yet another layer of government and bureaucracy that slows things down and costs the taxpayer.
if they were elected in some way i might think differently but even then i do not really see the point. - The point is in the history Howard - I suspect that you simply have no real awareness of what they have done. Reform of the HoL is another matter and the manner of that reform is worthy debate but not whether we keep it. The whole point of the HoL is as a reviewing chamber and of delay so your post itself shows you do not understand that vital role in our constitution.
- Support for the HoL comes, in the main, from those with disdain for the public, voting public or otherwise.
The HoC seems clear to cater to unelected pressure groups and Lobbyists and provide the Media with headlines and leave the real work of Democracy to other unelected forums;HoL and it's committees.
There is no denser smoke-screen than talk of 'Our Constitution'. What we have by way of a constitution is anything but ours or set down. It is free to be altered to keep it as apart from any taint of Democracy as it has been historically.
We are in a democracy-club where only ex-members set the rules.
The first thing to do is to get shot of it. Lock-stock etc. - Tom - I have said it before, you are a man out of his time and you really belong in revolutionary France in the late 1700's or maybe alongside Lenin in 1918.
- The modern concept of Democracy does not leave any space for an unelected house of Parliament. The house of lords was designed in a time when there was no democracy in Britain, and its time is up.
Once the idea spreads through the House of Commons that it is popular to introduce a new Union Constitution, then I reckon the upper house will be voted out by referendum. - a lot of of truth in what you say in the first paragraph alex, the concept belongs in another era.
much as i love tradition and heritage it should not impinge on the decision making process. - Well it seems that you're not alone in your anger regarding tax Barry. You're not the only one with Roger Helmer leaving the tory party citing this issue as one in a list of twenty why he could no longer belong to a party which has effectively stopped being a conservative political party.
Of course some within the tory ranks will consider him to be an outsider, a loose cannon but these are the deluded ones. The Camerosi who remain believers in the lost cause. - Let's begin with the P.S.
Is this 'taxable income' the same as 'unearned income'?
So...a pensioner (who has managed to accrue a vast some, complex taxation schemes or no) and who is paid about as much as any unemployed but large family is allowed to be paid; the latter being in total, the former anything but.
Anyway, between those sums and between those rates all of £822 out of about £30,000 is what we should get steamed-up about?
I wonder just how much of the vast accrual was aided by the present complexity?
Moving on up...
A Politician putting politics before all else and thereby not running such a high risk of personal unemployment? Who now cradles the Conch of naivete?
...and up...
Such evidence is rather more 'mush' and counter argument matching mush. So all-in-all mush of a mush-ness.
..to the top...
The language suffers yet again with this use of 'earn'. Where, oh where, does this 'earned' income come from if not from the pockets and purses of those who 'earn' less. Where can this lesser sum come from unless these very same magic-pixies help by creating wealth for others in order to create wealth for themselves to create wealth for others to create wealth for themselves...
Oh no. That's right, they have enough so pop-off on their umpteenth holiday rather than keep the pump primed...and then blame taxation...and a lackadaisical populace and cowardly politicians.
I will have all due sympathy for these issues the second I lay my hands upon a Stradivarius. - Tom - so you really do hate people who save and invest for their futures...
That £24,000 could be made up of the following:
State Pension
Private Pension(s)
From any work they do in retirement
Interest from bank accounts
and just about anything else that is taxable.
I read your post and wonder what world you are living on. - "it could" Agreed.
You seem so put out Barry.
Do you have Blog Space here in order to garner unequivocal support and unswerving backing for your stance on all things (ever so) right-eous ?
While we, you and me, often appear to be the very 'chalk-and-cheese' of all matters political and monetary, common courtesy should not be found wanting on either hand.
You have taken time out of your day to do nothing but get your name at the bottom of the front page and in passing half-address one solitary point.
Know this!
I am not discouraged. - Personally I am in favour of a reduction of income tax, Barry.
But there needs be also a regulation on bonuses.
To date this regulation is not there, and so Gov. UK should sort that out this month, then move on to the tax system. - Unrelated issues Alexander and bonuses are nothing to do with government either unless it is limited to those companies where the government has a shareholding.
- Barry, how can these be unrelated issues?
Bonuses are part of an income, they are also taxable. - What someone earns is a matter between the employer and the employee and is nothing to do with government except when it is the employer.
- Yes Barry, a proper gander through fiction would surely yield...Brave New World, Robocop, Soylent Green, 1984, Fahrenheit 451 and Mrs Marple.
As discussed elsewhere earlier, concerning the talk of a new private police station. It was admitted that much of the proposed 'savings' would come from increased capacity at times of mass detention. Trust Dave to have his eye on the next election. - I don't relish the idea of a pair of shaven headed bouncers patrolling anywhere near I live. Keeps these types in nightclubs and out of the law and order sphere.
- Personally I would love to see ex Paras or Ghurkas patrolling Philip.... leave bouncers in their night clubs...
Imagine some low life burglar being faced down by a Ghurka with his kukri out..... not that our too soft pc world would allow that, nice thought though! - we can all dream barry,bet there you go.
- Barry, you have practically dismantled your own case for reducing tax on high salaries!
- No Alexander. What a strange comment.
The case around high tax rates is that it is proven to reduce the level of revenue received by HMRC. High earners are mobile, are often able to control their own income and high tax rates disincentives additional investment into their businesses. - I guess now that David Cameron and his yes men have poisoned the well of traditional conservatism in the UK using all and sundry to subcontract for the Police force is yet another idea which may well be added to a long list of U-turns since the last election. It's merely another idea which shouldn't have seen the light of day and should have stayed in the blue skies thinking, throwing ideas in the air and see where it goes Wednesday afternoon get together.
It's not going to happen. No really it's a non-starter. It's not only stupid it's insane. Perhaps it's panic mode at CPHQ since the departure of Steve Hilton, one of many who are fleeing a sinking ship never to return.
No really, even if this idea were tried out where exactly would it end? Mission creep? You betcha! But all in a good cause eh? Citizen?
Spike this one chaps, sorry. Hey, George, remember that husky photo-op? I've just had an idea....................... - The Police are doing well in giving contracts to security firms, out-sourcing patrols and investigations. It should help bring down crime.
Criminals will be unaware how many eyes are watching them, as they sneak about up to no good. They should think twice then. - yes alex,we might as well out sourse our national security to the yanks as well,might work out cheaper.
- No correlation in the two issues here, Brian.
The Police are not reducing their numbers, but investing in extra services to increase their clout on crime. - Good morning each & Barry.
This I see as an early morning Dartmoor Blog (not a skit on 'bog').
All around is low lying mist, the ever-so-slight wind from time to time revealing something of interest and much to be wary of.
If only the initial sentence had it's full stop before 'able'.
The sentence beginning "This is quite..." starts off well, but "...baggage that has caused our relative post-war decay" as long as you mean past Government by the Conservative Party and all their ideological bilge over the years, Thatcher included, it is just another one of your dream sequences.
The next, beginning, "Much as I..." contains a startling gem of truth. We are, in fact, NOT discussing the Conservative Party in any way. On this point I am in full agreement.
I shall end this present retort in expanding a little on the first stand-alone sentence. (the second stand-alone is a mere curtain raiser)
While we agree that we are in no way discussing any future Blue Government it would be quite wrong to skip over the disaster previous and present Blue Governments have managed to 'accomplish'. [The word here is used in the way I know you do not like, as in everybody in the race is a real winner with no medals for those who happen to come 1st, 2nd or 3rd.]
From the heady days of the sixties and early seventies, (Right up to, in fact, the time we began to earn from the North Sea.) The lack-lustre vision, (that did not receive the same attention as the much-coached voice), and the sophistry of Trickle-Down-Economics; the refusal to spend on education and health and the concentration on personality-politics and grand schemes--found oh-so-attractive by New Labour. What has materialised is a middle-management culture in Parliament. (as you Barry, so rightly observe--sans leadership) That this philosophy yet holds sway, while unsurprising as Parliament has attracted so many of that ilk, is further evidenced by the inability of present Ministers to sell ideas to the populace because all ideas come to this Government fully formed from the industries set to profit by all such schemes. In short;no leadership, no ideas of their own, no vision and not even seen as worthwhile by their staunchest supporter.
I cannot wait to attend to your vision set out in the summary.
You are a true-Blue and speak as if a passenger on some trireme of old crossing the bar who thinks himself humane when considering fleetingly the plight of those at the oars. - Personally I would suggest that real humanity, Tom, comes not from the benefit culture but from the self-respect, energy and improved standard of live derived from work and standing on your own two feet independent from the over powerful State.
Mrs Thatcher dealt with the problems of her time and did so successfully but we have moved on and the challenges are different and they need a different approach.
The relative post-war decline was due to the heavy hand of State intervention with the well meaning but disastrous Welfare State and the bully boy trade unions.
This plan would help achieve the kind of economy that can deal with the 21st Century realities. - Good afternoon each & Barry.
Although it was not my intent to have deal with any sort of wishy-washy rebuttal, but to get to rest of the bolg, alas such it has to be.
'Self-respect' is but the weft of the thin veil that seeks to hide a Romanesque hooter of avarice.
Why would anybody serious about encouraging self-respect promise such encouragement from a stance set-firm against the mass of British humanity? I worry about the mental state of any and all who, it seems, only have to motor past a pedestrian to cover the burr-walnut in the phlegm of outrage and disgust and that swaddles their own guilt in a blanket of condemnation, that sees the products of their own party's policies in health and education and derides them as, "The 'Right' man's burden."
I have given you the words of Byron, take heed!
I allow more scope for improvement on the scourge of continued prosperity that was Thatcherism than you do yourself.
"a different approach"?? Well doesn't that just take the biscuit?
Hindsight;20/20 vision. All that was done way back when was right. It is the times that are wrong. 'Small' Government, I suppose, cannot bear the least responsibility for what happens once they have clocked-off their shift, yet 'HUGE' Government can be blamed down through the ages! Every nut-house has it's Napoleon-Petit, who if given full rein could accomplish the same eventual success of the little man himself.
To stave off a future of Chesterfield wall-covering and a suit that buckles up the back why not read what you write with eyes anew. Read the words I gave you of Byron's speech a mere two-hundred years ago. How great thinkers like yourself proposed to set the Englishman free. Free to stand upon his own two feet and earn himself and his family their very own bit of England...at a depth of six feet, no less.
In living memory the truth is stark that all that is Blue relies on and feeds off those in poverty (relative nicety or no). Poverty drives down wages, oils the path of expendability and readies the general population for death in conflict.
"...bully boy trade unions."
This, as a matter of fact, is just about where I came in two years or so ago. With Heath's, NOT Thatcher's, stance that it is Government that Governs and not TUs...and NOT now big-business, bankers or the "well meaning" foreign vultures that cannot operate in as low a fashion 'at home' as they are encouraged to do in the UK.
The 21st century reality is that the Blue's set low level of support combined with an ever expanding earning potential, free from question or remark and even the limits of conscience, is over.
What is missing from the vomitous outpourings of the apologists of both Red and Blue [and if we must...the Beige too] is the little (not so little) things;
-Education removed from democratic accountability.
-Health service removed from democratic accountability.
-Justice denied to all except those with the money to pay for it. (except that it is those with money that get free Legal aid in criminal cases, when such sums available to defend the poor are vastly reduced. -another new wheeze)
-Law & Order outsourced to those who bankroll the party.
I am in favour of one direct path to Self-Respect...that people stop voting for the same partys and personalities that have brought us to these dizzy heights we enjoy today.
- For every one adversely affected by the firms who have 're-structured' a family of footfall will be lost to the local shopping streets.
I do hope that none of these concerns relies in any way on the retail trades to help them weather this storm.
Is it swings-and-roundabouts or chicken verses nest-egg? - I notice a moment ago that my nearby Odd-Bins is closing. Although it is a thriving business.
"Owing to a catastrophic breakdown in negotiations with our Lease-holder..." - I know your'll ignore my posting yet again Barry (yeah the truth hurts sometimes when it comes to exposing how stupid the tories are) but hey ho.
George Osbourne is a moron. It's as simple as that. In fact his boss David is an even bigger moron but that's life and we have to live with it.
Richard Branson, along with other business leaders, is set to abandon any more investment in the UK if the extra runway at Heathrow does not get the go-ahead. David Cameron will refuse to consider the idea. See what I mean? He's truly a moron.
One other thing as an aside to highlight the man's stupidity is his energy policy or lack of it.
He, he, he's only, oh to hell with that just accept that he is a moron. - And something else for George to consider. This from the Times:
"Among the poorest performers are two turbines at GlaxoSmithKline’s pharmaceutical plant at Barnard Castle, Co Durham, and the Ecotricity wind turbine at Green Park in Reading, Berkshire, which the company boasts is Britain’s best-known because it is adjacent to junction 11 of the M4.
The turbine beside the motorway runs on average at just over 16% of its capacity. It earned £229,700 in 2010-11, but half that was paid in subsidy. The electricity generated was worth about £115,000.
The Barnard Castle turbines did even worse, running at just 8.2% of capacity and earning £26,000, half of which was paid as subsidy by the government’s renewables obligation scheme."
Multiply this a hundred fold and you can see that this needs urgent action. Forget the coalition and remember the people. - Well done with that BarryW. Excellent stuff indeed. 100,000 viewers. Will do a little picture feature on this on the frontpage shortly. Give me a day or two to get it up there.
- impressive indeed over a 100 a day!!
- does this mean another forum do?.
- Hearty congratulations on your passing this Blog milestone Barry.
_________________________________________________________
Good afternoon each & Barry.
-Human Rights?
-"A licence for criminals"?
-"Cameron... carry on"?
-Tory Majority?
Cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts, cuts and more and more cuts. Cuts to the 'nth' degree.
[The standpoint of all the partys in Parliament, it seems.]
So, dear reader, feel free to distribute the 'n's as freely as our lords and masters are free to work unstintingly to 'cut'.
They say, of themselves, that they work unstintingly for the (eventual) benefit of us all and that, "We are all in this together."
Alas, 'tis the most Regal and haughty 'we'.
Might it be true, that it is said..."It is a wise investor that sees regular return." [let us venture out upon the limb and suppose that it is so.]
I invest a modest £1.50 per fortnight and it must be a very wise investment indeed.
I buy Private Eye.
In the current issue of that publication (no.1309) on page 31 there is a Tax Avoidance Special report into matters concerning Vodafone's recent head-line grabbing tax-shenanigans.
For reasons purely of geographical fact the report is titled, "Bern baby Bern!"
There is:-
-European legislation on tax matters.
-UK legislation on tax matters.
-Appeal Court rulings on tax matters.
Each and all of which say one thing.
There is:-
-The opinion of the head of HMRC.
-The seconding of that opinion by Vodafone's tax director. (ex top HMRC)
Which says the opposite.
A bill of around £6bn, settled without interest and with five years to pay, for £1.25bn.
The Budget of George Osborne (school friend of Dave and a man who would rather joy-ride in an expensive RAF jet than meet and talk with serving officers. -more pay-off from my modest investment) is set to include yet more such sweeteners. Where it will be AOK with the Conservative/Lib-Dem coalition to see all such money taxed at between 0 and 5.75%
All you SMCs out there eat your heart out. Your Council-Tax rise IS only 11p a week.
- Thank you Tom.
In less than two days over 500 more hits added... That's not bad for a blog only updated 2/3 times a week.
For those who want to know, my aim is to update Monday, Wednesday and Saturday mornings aiming to do so before 9am. Life does sometimes get in the way!!!
Anyway - Tom....
Tax is not in itself a solution to any problem and, in fact, it can create problems that adversely impact on the wealth creation on which jobs depend and all our prosperity depend.
How governments spend the money they collect is what is important and, sadly governments tend to spend inefficiently and not very wisely - after all they see votes at the end of the day and its other people's money that pays for those votes.
Far better that we keep government in its place, doing as little as possible, taxing as little as possible and let us all get on with our lives. Never trust government, specially any government that is too keen to tell us what to do and to rob us of our hard earned money.
I feel that you place far too much importance on the wrong things Tom and faith in an institution that does not deserve it. - Barry,
Am I to take it that the institution that you say I have too much faith in is something called a Duly Elected Democratic Government?
Better that, for the sake of argument, than HMRC. For it is, in the instance I mention below, the Company who is so enamoured of and seeks to be acutely in tune with that institution. The Tax Director involved may keep bees, grow giant marrows or be an avid collector of thimbles, I know not. Yet in my naivety I consider that it is the presence of his past work with HMRC in his CV that may have helped him land that job, not his hobbies, real or imaginary.
As far as Governments are concerned, they may all spend unwisely, but those who neglect to collect what is their lawful due in revenue;that is far more than unwise. That is negligence.
Add to this the agreed fact that such Governments SPEND money ( if unwisely here, then wisely there?) and they spend such money in purchasing goods and services, directly and indirectly. Who then can it be that is on the receiving end of such largesse? [Talk of benefit claimants need not detain us. For their portion of such monies goes to; landlord,VAT,supermarket/high-street shop etc. In short, they spend it and in so doing pay tax upon it]
Whose money is it anyway? Who is it that has the 'worth' of the Pound in his pocket or the Pound in her purse reduced through QE? Bank bail-outs? Guarantees to the Euro and the IMF?
Is it the money that the IMF considers it's by right that is squandered on the public as a whole, for party political reasons? If the Conservatives were not geared up to have money flow your way would they get your vote?
Is it not your vote that is for sale?
I see that by your use of the phrase, "hard earned" you too are possessed of a Poetic Licence. Handy, is it not?
Little wonder that I had to drive you and Dave to talk in terms of "Our economy." and "Our society."
Plainly you are both only interested in "MY Economy." and "abstract society."
For as sure as eggs is eggs, nature abhors a vacuum. What would you like to see occupy the space now occupied by 'Fat Government'?
[I sense that you may settle for, "Arms-akimbo Government."] - mmmm Tom - it is all governments, of all types and of all creeds we should be wary of. There is no guarantee that a future Hitler or Stalin will gain power again, the UK is not immune. That is why we need to be careful about our liberties and should make sure governments do not grow too fat and too large on the taxes we pay. Keep government small, keep it to doing only what is only really necessary and keep your guard up.
Right now government is far too big - it needs some drastic trimming. As a matter of public policy they increased the scope of the benefit system deliberately as a way to buy votes to turn us into grateful serfs thankful for whatever largesse it throws our way. The fact that this largess is bought at a massive cost to the economy is meaningless to those who devised their devious scheme.
My main gripe with the present government is that it is not doing enough to wean us of benefits, not enough to trim back interference, not enough to make us stand on our own two feet.
That does not stop a genuine safety net for those who fall on hard times but a safety net is different to the benefit society the last government tried to create.
Let people live their lives, keep more of their money, take more responsibility for themselves. Dependence breeds misery and serfdom not happiness and freedom. - I hope chancellor Osborne isn't reading your blog, Barry, it could mean terminal shutdown to all public spending!
But fortunately Jupiter and Venus are in alignment, and that seems to predict a new Coalition. I've been figuring out between which parties.
Now I'll keep this one secret. - Barry,
I feel that clarity is best served by sticking to the, "Nature abhors a vacuum" aspect of the future you paint.
Because only by so doing shall we discover what is to come that would replace the present preponderance of 'Fat Government'.
[Yet I feel I must break of on the shortest of detours to mention, Godwin's Law. (that's it, done)]
What of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Was Iraq not a small government, largely commercial enterprise?
Would any small government expend money & lives in Afghanistan?
Does the privatisation of;Education, NHS, Police, DWP, Defence and Public Transport set the population free?
Would the commercial organisations who take over the running of these areas still need a Cabinet Minister to oversee their affairs?
Should the oversight (that cannot really be the right word, can it?) be a job for the 'state' only, for the Civil Service?
If so. Would the career path of this CS extend to a seamless drift into the very commercial enterprises previously overseen by said CS?
If, heaven forfend, anything should go wrong;malfeasance, corruption or treachery etc.. Who could take responsibility? Who could be blamed? How could anything be put right?
Rats! I am beginning to answer my own question.
For...
IF you could get by without blaming Gordon you are pretty much where you, so fervently, wish to be already.
Oops. We have yet to mention money.
UK Plc would still have to pay out large sums to 'enjoy' this array of private expertise.
Where best to accrue such monies?
'Private' and profitable wars?
Property tax? (I just mention this as 'light relief')
Poll Tax, then. How better to ensure that there is a workforce than tie them down into wage-slavery?
People would, no doubt, be free...oh so free, to join one of or THE power faction(s) in order to be thought better of and begin to climb the ladder of influence. Perhaps with a nice brown uniform? [tut-tut, there's that Godwin's Law again.]
Time perhaps for me to enjoy some 'hard earned' sleep..."The world shall hear from me again."? - Tom - the 'vacuum' would be filled by good old personal responsibility and standing on our own two feet, you know, that thing we had before the Welfare State set out to enslave us all to government dictats.
Government does have a role though - that is in defence, in ensuring a framework of sensible law and enforcing them and, as I said, a safety net for when we fall on hard times. Education is also essential though it need not necessarily be provided by government, just enabled for everyone, likewise health. - Barry, I have a question to ask:
The Cabinet stated a few months back that Britain can expect hard times for the coming 13 years. It was either Dave of Osborne who made the statement.
The message seemed to mean the economy won't be getting better before 2025.
If the Tories win outright in a General Election, could we expect this timetable to be revised?
- Misunderstanding Alexander.
The depth of the recession is such that economic activity, after allowing for inflation, will not be up to the level of where it was before the slowdown for that period. This is a reflection of just how much of our economic boom, at that time, was an illusion paid for by the debt bubble.
The economy is starting to mend now and is getting better but it has a long climb ahead.
This is why I prefer a 'faster-deeper' approach to the deficit and to a growth agenda. Shorter, sharper pain is preferable to a long drawn out process. - Further to the answer....
It is not a timetable as such, merely a computer model of the shape and speed of the recovery. It may end up pessimistic, or maybe optimistic. Whatever politicians like to think they do not control that and can only influence it. - Where oh where to begin...or 'resume' even...
Well, we have to begin somewhere, why not with this from today's Guardian letters page...
"I am very fortunate to be a top-rate taxpayer. If I wish to contribute my full annual allowance of £50,000 to my pension pot, it will cost me only £25,000. The taxpayer pays the other £25,000 – rather than paying, say, for an extra nurse or teacher. Even in good times, this would be hard to defend. In lean times, it is preposterous: a disgraceful example of how the current taxation regime gives most to the best-off at the expense of the majority. On this, at least, Ed Balls has got it absolutely right."
No link of course, but anybody interested can discover all for themselves easily enough.
With the great emphasis placed upon notions of 'standing on ones own two feet' etc. and with my tiring of calling to mind how our world was prior to the Welfare State I bethought myself of another way to look into this.
While trying to avoid Party-Political bias and point scoring, seeking an objective view and yet to maintain focus on a societal model where stoic self-reliance might be taken for granted, I lit upon Japan.
The report, called, "Dynamics of the Japanese Welfare State in Comparative Perspective."
From,
The Japanese Journal of Social Security Policy : Vol.2, No.2 (December 2003)
It being 'comparative' it has a great deal to say about the West and about the UK too.
From-- our shared need or facility to 'buy votes'...
" ...the Japanese business sector, albeit reluctantly,
acknowledged governmental expenditures to protect lo-
cal interests in order to enhance the legitimacy of the re-
gime."
Although 'reluctant' in Japan translates as 'dead set against' with the Right here in the UK.
To-- their conclusion (the future of Tory reforms?)...
"...in spite of the efforts to realize (a) universal welfare state in Japan, there is a real possibility for the emergence of new stratifications of welfare provision in Japan."
Read it if you dare at...
(www.)ipss.go.jp/webj-ad/webjournal.files/.../2003/.../miyamoto2003dec.pdf
[simply cut and paste it into your search bar and delete the brackets]
A fair morning's work.
- We can see just how sickly the Japanese economy has been for a long time Tom. he Japanese stockmarket is one of the hardest to make money on and that impacts adversely on inward investment into Japan. On the bright side, the social values of the Japanese and an innate work ethic in their culture helps their economy along. Sadly we cannot say the same about ourselves.
As for pensions....
Tom - there are some clear ethical and motivational problems regarding your point about pensions:
1/ Double taxation. If the 'output' from the accumulated pension fund is to be taxed then taxing the money on its way in is wrong. If you start restricting tax relief to higher earners while retaining the restrictions and obligations on taking benefits then there is a clear injustice. Those outputs of course include the 55% taxation taken from a post-crystallisation fund on death as well as on the income. The 'pots' of people who suffer the 50p rate could well be at 50p rate in drawdown particularly with flexible drawdown.
2/ If you place restrictions, as pension law does, on how you can access your money then you need to make it worthwhile investing in such pensions. Even now people often question the value of that tax relief and it is difficult to convince many people of the fact that it is a good exchange, tax relief in return for those restrictions.
3/ Too many people are under pensioned and this will cause many problems in future. People need incentivising to invest and you need to be careful about sending out signals that will further disincentivising those who do not have provision. Restrict the 50p relief now and you raise questions about the future of the 40p rate and even the 20p rate... The government cannot afford that.
If anything is wrong here it is not 50p tax relief on pensions but the 50p tax rate itself. - facts and figures are fine for reading,but its a big but will this goverment or the next goverment give us a fair refurendum that they will conform to,what ever the result is.
- I just realised (and amended) a typo - I said 78 nations surveyed, of course its 7.
- Sickly Japanese economy? Is that a proud boast of how well we are doing?
No easy-money, get-rich-quick style Stock Market, poor they. [they have created more employment here than Dave&Co.]
Had you dared read the Article you would know that it is not so much "innate work ethic", but the culture of providing jobs for life and splitting the welfare between work-based and State schemes.
We certainly cannot claim anything so enlightened of ourselves.
Pensions...
You are in the business Barry, we know this.
Again you, in common with the Tory ethos, will not countenance sharing the blame or the cost. [if you did not continually skew each comment away from a National/International focus, to one that speaks only of your own good works, the reader could be assured that there is a world outside and accept their part in it]
On re-jigging the relationship of individual states with the EU. I am all for that. Perhaps for reasons entirely different from your own. My own broad-scope approach verses your fixation with the UK's relationship speaks to that very point, but then again. I DO believe that we are, each and all, in this together. For each and all. - Tom - Japan's problems really started in 1990 and continued since then. The older large Japanese companies have been held down and back by the very ethos you describe. Looking at Japanese investment, I like many others, look for funds that favour the 'new Japan' more dynamic and unburdened smaller companies. What you seem to admire most about Japan reflects exactly what has gone so wrong for them economically. We cannot afford that.
- Where there is talk of 'equality' let there be action on divergence.
Where there is talk of 'diversity' let there be action on equalisation.
For only when we truely go our separate ways can we go forward together.
So much for the 'sum'. Now for the substance.
The IFS has "worked out" a "low estimation", [but here no out of work for such low esteem]
If we throw real figures into the mix. [and allow £250,000,000 to cover the effect of using such a conscientious, if low, estimation]
Real figures from the single instance of tax-sweetener deal I mentioned on the 12th inst.(Vodafone) What do we see?
This one (of many) £4.5bn 'give-away' would cover the supposed shortfall of the 50p imposition for nine years. Which, to the democratically minded, represents two whole Parliamentary terms.
Let all, who shall increasingly make-up all such shortfalls through indirect and local taxation, be generous in the face of both Flam and Flim.
Is it then too much to expect of this Budget that all our unemployment woes shall quickly become a thing of the past?
Shall our continued oiling of the very scourge that marks our backs transpire, as we are told, to facilitate said scourge's storage and disuse?
Are some of these 10 p's:Palingenesis, prosperity, productivity, pecuniary-pragmatism, the very pinnacle of paneity. In short a Panacea for the palliard?
OR
Palsied panic, producing little more than the promise of peasant-pannage?
- Can you perhaps repeat that in English please Tom and also it might make more sense if you do not mix up Corporation taxes and personal taxes.
- VAT & Council tax are Corporation taxes?
Does the Exchequer expend monies differently depending on the source of income?
English may well be my second language, but I fancy I make a first rate fist of it just the same.
Of the thousands of visitors you get dear Barry, the post of chief complainer falls upon you. Perhaps I able to assist.
Let me make it very clear...
"All who disagree with me are free so to do and should in no way feel fettered by any thoughts of my having a vulnerable under-belly and/or sensibilities that might lead me to be in the least pained by criticism." - Tom, the only two p's that would precisely preface your post are Pompous Panegyric.
- barry,toms posting was very clear,well as clear as mud anyway.but having said that any one with limited intteligence could see what tom was saying.
- But I am not of limited intelligence Brian. So will you please explain Tom's post to the rest of us!!! oooops, but of course you say its as clear as mud too.....
Tom - in the sentence in which you refer to the 50p rate you seem to make reference to corporate taxes not VAT or Council Tax. - Obviously there is, "Keep It Simple Stupid." and there is, "keep it simple stupid".
Apparently, there is no hard and fast rule regarding which, if either, version is deemed suitable for response.
On the one hand. Simplification entails talking only about one single aspect or facet of the subject matter;
-Personal tax.
-Corporation tax.
On the other hand. Simplification entails talking only about the subject that is mentioned in the Title to a particular blog;
-The Budget.
[as a little aside. There is further complication because the Blog-Title does change, (Even when the content remains the same? I took this blog to be Budget orientated...silly me) but the older comments remain.]
I may well have mentioned personal & corporation taxes in the same sentence, but as the second line in my comment of the 17th at 12:16 pm makes clear, the subject of the blog, the Budget, also covers different aspects and forms of Taxation.
"You see what you want to see." As some smarty-pants once remarked.
"You show what you want to show too." I said that.
The picture above (if it remains) must be the worst possible example of a photograph of this woman. Previous examples of pictures here of the female form, while kinder on the cosmetic level are often less kind as to pose.
Should any commenter on this post of mine venture to read this far down what I have troubled to write, the following is my final statement of the day...
All in all I sense a certain political-misogyny depicted here that the Conservative party at large is at pains correct.
- Featherstone made her milestone speech a few months back, and instead of it catapulting her up the political stage as was expected, it had the reverse effect. She droned on for ages and ages in flat dreary tones with tomes about the plight of women, using what appeared to me as 1970's language which sounded totally lost in today's terms. It had to be one of the most brain-numbing speeches ever.
Women have made progress since then, since the bleak seventies, but that is not to say that all is totally fair across the board. But Featherstone did not strike the right chord. Harriet Harman made much much more of a believable case on behalf of women...and still does.
Not sure about getting rid of the equalities commission, it would take a brave man to do it, and with Cameron losing the support of job axed women right across the marketplace, I dont think he will be the one to do it.
ps: I did some ramblings about the Budget over yonder in the forum thread of same title. All waiting with baited breath to see what happens. - i saw laura sandys on the box a couple of weeks talking about how the economic situation was affecti8ng women adversely.
she simply stated the facts that women were more likely to work for the public sector and/or doing part time work, no looney feminist nonsense from another era. - The blog will be late updating. I am awaiting an electrician who is doing some work changing over the consumer unit. The power will be off for a lot of the day (this is a big house with lots of circuits...) and I am not sure when I will be able to get on to do it....
- "...not what is politically popular."
I take it that means he is to be unconcerned with riling and disappointing the vast majority of the public and further, the more the non-rabid;the Tory wets, the Lib Dems and the New Labour left, seek to cry 'foul' the more correct George will be.
"...But - the politics can be won and won by economic recovery and growth."
Does this make this week's budget his third attempt at greatness?
- Well Tom - the more you disapprove of his budget the better it will be for the country. Perhaps I should name it 'The Tom Test'.... There is a certain ring to that.
Or perhaps the TRK Test, the Tom, Reg, Keith Test - the more venom, spite and viteol directed at George Osborne after the budget the better for the country.
What is good for the economy, jobs and the country is what counts and that does mean doing exactly what you would not want him to do.
As for the last sentence, no - but it is his last chance to really make a mark and get things moving because from the next budget thoughts will be more with the next election...
- love the "fellow travellers" reference barry, last heard that in the sixties.
anyway getting back to george i rather like the man, whether he will turn out to be a genius or an idiot none of us know as you imply yourself.
osborne studiously avoids the headlines preferring to just get on with the job in a way that he sees as correct, wish there were more like him. - My guess, Barry, is that most of the essential changes regards public spending have been, and are being, announced by Dave on a daily basis.
The Chancellor might reduce the 50p rate to 45p, he might put up VAT and make tobacco more expensive than 18 K gold. As well as a few other unpopular and extremely unnecessary measures. - Alexander - less taxes. not more - is what is needed. Including chopping the 50p rate, preferably immediately though 45p is less damaging that the 50p rate. Taxes will not solve our economic problems, tackling the excessive levels of public spending will help towards it.
- This is a live and let die budget. Utterly disgraceful!
- Barry, it has become official: 7K gold is cheaper than tobacco.
The only conclusion I could come to is that someone who slams such an enormous increase on tobacco tax in the UK, where t. is already more expensive than in any other country, must be desperate and hasn't really got a clue how to solve the Nation's economic woes.
What a disillusioned man this Chancellor! - This disillusioned man the Chancellor might as well sell tobacco bonds.
Buy a £100 tobacco bond now from the Treasury, and in 7 years it will guaranteed be worth £400, as its value will be aligned to the cost of tobacco in the UK.
I'm still waiting to see how much he's taxed my can of cider.
This budget is null and void of common sense! - More like milking a filthy, health destroying and pointless habit. If I had my way I would have put it up even more, a lot more. One of the few taxes I truly agree with.
- If Sir Walter Raleigh had discovered this poisonous weed in the 21st century, it would never have been allowed to be sold. The same, I am afraid, applies to alcoholic beverages.
- What about petrol, Barry? Is that not filthy? I've been working along side a main road the last two weeks, traffic non-stop. I breathe it in. It makes me ill!!!
Of-course, find an excuse or ignore it! But the fact remains. - Good morning each and Barry,
Barry it is awfully good of you to keep your pool of clients and the myriad swarm of ditherers (oops) 'potential clients' up to date on all things that threaten their well-being and the possible strategies open to them to mitigate against such calumnies that were presaged in squeaky-George's recent budget.
You show too, much wisdom in omitting any and all mention of the raising of the tax threshold. Better that private humour remain private?
I read that for as many as 865,200 people who are in work yet claiming housing benefit shall not be beneficiaries of much at all of this rich-man's largesse. For they will see 65p of each pound gained (and another 20p if they claim council tax benefit) clawed back by the treasury through the 'taper' mechanism.
Raising the threshold by £1,000 may cut someone's income tax by £200 a year, but that person will only see £70 (or £1.34 per week). While someone on £160,000 will gain, through the lowering of the top rate to 45%, £9.62 per week.
Mojitos all round? - Tom the problems of the welfare system disincentivising people from getting into work and/or earning more is being dealt with by the IDS reforms.
The raising of the tax threshold has been well covered elsewhere so I did not focus on that and is so obviously a good thing it was not worth a comment. - Barry, Are you saying that the Government has over-ordered too much 'Savlon' and therefore must deliver more weals to the corpus-populous?
Being told that the good idea of one gaining £200 is one thing. That it actually means a gain of £70 makes the first statement a 'Con'.
All of which makes GO the Home Guard equivalent of Private Walker.
HMRC pronounces that £16 billion was moved into the previous tax year to avoid the 50p rate, GO then gives the heads-up that the reverse needs to be done to take full advantage of the 45p rate.
That too is very much a Con(servative) move.
Private Walkers (oops) 'fellow travellers' take note. - Alexander - I missed your comment and so to pick up on that. Note what I said in full about tobacco, filthy, health destroying and POINTLESS. Petrol, unlike tobacco, is not pointless as it gets us from A to B and helps keep commerce moving.
- i am trying follow your lgic with great difficulty here barry
you argue that lowering the top rate of tax would bring in more revenue then advocate raising the tax on tobacco which would have the same effect. - The big difference Howard is that tobacco is unnecessary, no-one really needs it except to deal with a self-inflicted drug addiction and there are health issues involved.
- the issue is about revenue barry, we have a deficit and the government like the last one chooses to throw money away.
there is roughly 5 quid tax on a packet of 20 cigarettes, the vast majority of people in east kent prefer to pay their tax to the french exchequer as it is cheaper.
in other parts of the country there are smuggled ones mainly from eastern europe and counterfeit ones from china.
the price differential since the pound fell against the euro over a period of years means that a small cut in tax would stop people crossing the channel. - It would also encourage a disgusting habit Howard.
- Tobacco? Habit or addiction? Make your mind up Barry.
Tax avoidance? Habit or addiction?
Cold Turkey? And save the VAT! - Tax avoidance, = legal and being responsible to your families. I do it all the time and I am sure everyone with an ounce of common sense does too.
Who, being sensible, does not have an ISA?
Who, being sensible, does not have a pension?
Two simple examples.
I wonder how many people moaning about tax avoidance have aided and abetted tax evasion by paying a tradesman cash? - Barry, I paid my tobacco tax to the Grande Nation.
I think you are missing some points. One is, the Chancellor does not have a clue how to sort out the economy, which is in a mess, and so has decided to tax to oblivion tobacco and, it seems, my daily can of cider too.
He then manages to regurgitate a speech about "curbing binge drinking among the young". The cynical young man is trying to cash in on alcohol and tobacco to patch up the budget.
My hard worked for money should not be taken from me in this way by a man who probably has never been a member of the working class and no doubt came out of an elite university and only ever sat on his hind figuring out how to rip off the working people.
I'm no drinker as such, and believe that the State should curb binge drinking, but what this Chancellor does is cynical: banking on binge drinking to stick plaster on the hopelessly debited Treasury and the annual budget.
If I enjoy an Old Holborn tobacco drone that's my business, but I earnestly protest at the ripping off of 5 million people drawing an average pension, as programmed in the budget, and at the omission of this Chancellor of the Exchecker to stop the filthy bonuses of the top-salary company directors who line their pockets with other people's money when Silly Season comes, in February of every year, when these individual elitists give themselves bonuses 3 times higher than their salary.
If my calculations are right, before the next budget is announced, Banker' Silly Season will have been abolished and we'll have a working-class government in Parliament.
- since you insist on being personally offensive barry i would imagine that you have some disgusting habits too,
- I'm not understanding this!
Decreasing tax will encourage people to pay more tax; increasing the price of tobacco will decrease people buying it.
Yet according to Michael Gove increasing tuition fees will not discourage university applications.
You couldn't make it up!
I also can't believe paying cash is 'aiding and abetting' tax evasion. That's a fairly serious accusation! I think the act of paying cash might make it easier for dishonest tradesmen, but aiding and abetting!? - dt,as i see it,if tax on tobacco was redused two [2] things will happen.
1,people will buy tobacco prouduts over the counter this side of the channel.
2,the so called smuggerling/fake tobbacco sales will drop so much that the revenue generated by this,the goverment would benifit. - Howard - do you smoke then? If so then don't take someone pointing out the facts of your habit so personally and accept it for what it is.
DT - Some taxes are more damaging to the economy than others and income tax is one of the more destructive if too high. But. of course, governments do have to raise tax, so why not tax something that is really quite disgusting, that damages the health of the users who do it and others affected by it and is utterly pointless. Seems a sensible thing to do.
As for Gove and tuition fees, far too many are being sent to Uni anyway with far too many pointless courses so a reduction in the number of students is no problem. Far more important, by the way, is to get standards in secondary education back up to where it was in my days at school and to the level of our competitors internationally.
Are you telling me that when a tradesman asks for cash that you are naive enough to think he will include it in his tax return? While it is his responsibility to do so, you are aiding and abetting a crime if you accede to his request. - I agree with the principle of taxing smokers, but then I would have thought that was against the ideals of the individualism your party pretends to promote.
As for education, the biggest shift away from your era of state education was the introduction of the national curriculum, a Conservative initiative.
As for what you gauge as a good degree course, that is subjective. Comparatively, Mr Gove sees that the basic descriptor of secondary school success should be the baccalaureate.
I achieved mine at 16, easy. If you haven't, then by Mr Gove's 'gauge' you and your education (in your days of school) weren't successful either. Of course anyone with a brain realises this in nonsense, just going to show the lack of understanding demonstrated by this government. (the same can be said for the last in varying degrees)
In an attempt to 'measure' value for money by counting exam results, this government has implemented more policy than any other, very little of which actually addresses the problems they are attempting to solve. Some of which are nothing more than antiquated snobbery.
So much for small government...Big Joke. - I agree with the principle of taxing smokers, but then I would have thought that was against the ideals of the individualism your party pretends to promote.
As for education, the biggest shift away from your era of state education was the introduction of the national curriculum, a Conservative initiative.
As for what you gauge as a good degree course, that is subjective. Comparatively, Mr Gove sees that the basic descriptor of secondary school success should be the baccalaureate.
I achieved mine at 16, easy. If you haven't, then by Mr Gove's 'gauge' you and your education (in your days of school) weren't successful either. Of course anyone with a brain realises this in nonsense, just going to show the lack of understanding demonstrated by this government. (the same can be said for the last in varying degrees)
In an attempt to 'measure' value for money by counting exam results, this government has implemented more policy than any other, very little of which actually addresses the problems they are attempting to solve. Some of which are nothing more than antiquated snobbery.
So much for small government...Big Joke. - DT - I left school at 15 and did not take any 'O' levels as they were then and have a better grasp of written English and Maths many many of today's A level graduates, in fact many Uni degree graduates from the experience of employers.
Also refer to the experience in employers about the quality of many degree courses and their relevance. Not good at all.
yes - I agree the National Curriculum was not exactly something the Conservatives can be proud of.
The big problems though come from the silly left wing theories that have driven the educational establishment for a long time. The destruction of Grammar Schools (and here, conversely, double selection as we both know), the toying around getting rid of streaming, the end to whole class teaching and the old proven methods of learning, trendy so called 'child centred learning' and daft anti-competition theories in and out of a classroom. I could go on. Mrs T's bug failure was in not wresting education away from the left-wing educational establishment.
While some of Gove's stubbornness in respect of selective areas (you know to what I refer) is wrong at least he does look like ending the destructive influences Mrs T failed with.
- There I am saying about my grasp of English and posting something full of errors!!!! ah well, I really should read these things through better before pressing the button...
- The only error I could detect in your recent posts, Barry, was your advocated intrusion in other people's private business regards tobacco and the idea of taxing it out of existence to stop us consuming it.
- Alexander - I have no problem about you consuming it as long as I am not affected by that consumption. Far better to tax an unnecessary drug habit than hard earned income.
- Desperate times call for anything other than measures, desperate or not?
How dare the Greek State attempt to ensure the well-being of the buying public, the health and financial standing of the retailer or that enough is known to better facilitate the collection of taxes.
Then there is, "is now a successful online retailer"
Clearly it is not regulation that is to blame for any of this chaps tribulations. Topography, more likely is to blame.
But, let us imagine this brave new(?) world. A world where all things may go on, where 'Caveat Emptor' is king?
Another attempt from the vile depths of the profit-motivated scoundrel to have all risk taken by the customer and all (tax-less) profit for himself!
Is a Greek a wop or a dago? I forget.
"Queer, all in this together." - barry/dt evan though i resect your view points,the tax system on smokers is an unfair stealth tax brougt by nimbby/ sect and the know it alls.
lets look at in a differant light tax on tobbaco is harming the recovery,with more and more traverling to france and belguim fot cheaper goods.
thus less money coming to goverment coffers.and more money going to foriegn goverment coffers.
the answer is to cut tobbaco duty on equell terms as to compeat with froigen sellers.
second point it either slow or stop this so called smugerling/counterfiet products coming into the country. - Tom, to quote one of your likely previous incarnations: Nay, I shall ne'er be 'ware of mine own wit till I break my shins against it.
PG. - If Kirios Antopoulos had had dinner at the Camerons, it might have gone swifter.
After all, a lot of Greece's money comes from Western Europe and Britain.
- Clearly Tom, for you there is no end to the levels of pointless red tape that can be justified right to the level of absurdity.
- No need to sing dem 'ol D'regulation Blues Barry, not yet anyway.
On the matter of regulations. Who wrote...
"It is hard to believe that we need government regulation on issues such as ice cream van musical jingles..."
And the department of who's government has launched a 24 page survey consulting on the "code of practice on noise from ice cream van chimes etc"
Consulting on whether to increase their duration up to 12 seconds and whether vendors of other perishable foodstuffs should also be allowed to use chimes etc.
But, alas no option to get rid of any of the regulations.
[answers on a post-card please?] - Chancellor Osborne is a disillusioned man, he has really nothing left to offer than this nonsense! Why not 999 year bonds!
- I have no hesitation in being in entire agreement with you on this one Barry.
I trust that had this young man been already unfortunate as to his future education and employment prospects you would feel the same way about this overreaction by the authorities.
Further, I hope that some stand could be made by his University, who themselves have an ancient and hard won standing within the legal framework, that would enable them to afford this young man a legitimate break in his studies.
It is when the citizens fail to protest the outlandish behaviour of the State against the least of them that allows the State to make free with our, again hard won, freedoms.
The recent headlines I have read regarding the apportioning of blame for the cause and trigger of the riots across England and the irrational nature of the 'justice' meted out in the aftermath* are further evidence of the divided nature of something so many have fought, killed and been killed to unite over the centuries.
We have lost our way and there can be no other answer to this than to fight again and that Freedom of Speech is a very good place to begin.
*
Did you know that 'aftermath' is an agricultural term used to describe the new growth that burgeons forth after mowing? - Agree 100% Barry. This represents another opportunity for the curtain twitching element, namely those who seek victimhood in every aspect of our lives and generally from the liberal left, to sit up on their high horse and pontificate to the plebs.
But this is merely the inevitable outcome of governments being allowed to pass laws which impinge in every single aspect of our lives.
Take the smoking ban as an example. This was widely welcomed by many who see smoking as an evil. They don't smoke of course but wait until laws are passed which restrict the food we eat and those erstwhile do-gooders will be amongst the first to complain.
So it is with this case. The trouble is that people tend to be very myopic when it comes to legislation. They fail to see the bigger picture and where these ridiculous laws might lead.
One thing, funny how football crowds have become very religious over the past couple of weeks with fans praying for him and even special prayers said in some churches.
Makes me sick frankly. It reminds me of the sick response to the death of Diana when the world and his dog went into mourning for a year. - I agree over the emotional incontinence that has gripped people Philip, it is rather pathetic and we need to get back to the 'stiff upper lip'.
As for smoking ban - no there you are wrong. What about the fact that smoking to non-smokers is, smelly and disgusting, apart from any health issues. That is why many do not like it, there is nothing more horrible sat next to a smoker making your clothes stink and eyes sting. It is the total lack of consideration most smokers have for non-smokers that justifies the ban alone aside from the health implications. It is so much nicer now in pubs and restaurants, it was the only decent bit of legislation passed by the last government. It is a matter of improving the freedoms of non-smokers not to suffer other people's poisonous waste. Smokers simply do not appreciation or understand just how horrible it is, or don't want to. - A Play Within A Play
Cast of characters:Confidence tricksters (CT)
Care-giver (CG)
Dotty old dear (DOD)
Picture the scene...
A high street tea-room. At the table sit CT various and CG. The tea and the conversation flow freely.
The plot...
The CT seek to and succeed in bribing the CG to work as their agent to infiltrate the life and fortune of DOD. Free access is given to CT to the home and affairs of DOD. Contracts both vague and advantageous to CT are duly signed. The fortunes of DOD begin to flow the CT way and carry on so, due to the contracts pushed upon DOD by trusted CG.
So much for fiction.
Greece is in trouble, it's friends gather round to offer advice and assistance.
Greece is in debt and is further indebted by it's friends with much shaking of heads and stern rebukes handed out for the perceived profligate ways it did business hitherto.
What it is to have friends...like this.
The French and Germans insist that Greece fulfils it's contracts to purchase defence equipment. The UK is equally adamant that Greece continues to pay for their defence contracts, including the £3.3bn order for 60 Typhoon fighter aircraft.
Some here will be aware of the UK's military force strength, but be less aware of those of Greece.
156 F-16s
800+ German Leopard Tanks
13 Frigates armed with Exocets and Cruise Missiles
11 Submarines
The French are demanding £3bn for Frigates
The Germans £1.5bn for Submarines
The German Submarine failed to live up to expectations during trials:hopeless in rough weather, even when submerged and will cost £80m to fix.
The Greek newspaper "Kathimerini" investigated and now alleges that about $140m was washing about as bribes.
The Greek Economic Crimes Unit is also looking into all weapons deals over the last ten years.
Greece's much vaunted laxity as to it's financial affairs may well have contributed to it's downfall, but also, it seems, to the well-being of many other states. Ours included. - To give a comment of sorts on the footballer case, I avoid reading news articles about them no matter who they are or of what ethic origin.
For me they live in another world, one that has changed sport into a cash-system of millionaires.
That refers to cases when they act as a prima-donna and occupy the headlines for days on end.
However, if someone collapses on the pitch, there is no need to make a nasty comment about it and publicise it.
Racist comments are offensive and I don't see any satisfaction in offending a person. The norm is, don't say to others what you wouldn't like having said to yourself by another person.
I certainly don't agree with punching a person either for a bad comment, Barry. That definitely is out. Violence is the worst thing! - i must admit to thinking "sleaze" when i saw those figures from tom.
why on earth would greece need such an array of military might? - The student may be freed tomorrow as he has an appeal hearing In Swansea Crown Court.
"The appeal, which is expected to last at least one hour, will be heard at Swansea Crown Court by Mr Justice Wyn Williams." - Howard - Turkey is why, there is an age old enmity and they were at war even as recently as the 70's if memory serves me right.
Given their geography a decent sized navy and air force seems appropriate but 800 Leopard MBTs seem rather a lot when lighter more mobile forces may be more appropriate - barry
the tiif between greece and turkey is mainly over cyprus.
surely land forces are enough to sort out any differences over doner kebab selling rights?
all this sophisticated weaponry is totally out of proportion. - Er, would that be the same Turkey that David Cameron is so eager to see join the EU?
Funny that. - Greece and Turkey have been at loggerheads for more than 3,000 years. Cyprus is just the latest excuse.
- I must have missed a blog post, from football to Greece and Turkey.
On the latter subject, Peter, Greece and Turkey have not been at war for more than 3,000 years.
The Turks entered Anatolia around the year 1,000, more or less. The area, now eastern Turkey, was part of the Byzantine (Greek) Empire. The Turks gradually conquered the whole Empire and then went on into Europe, conquering Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, and areas inhabited both by Serbs and Croats, Albania, Macedonia, and Hungary.
The Turks and Greeks haven't been at war before 1,000 years ago.
Before the Turks, the Greeks had been at war with the Arabs, the Bulgars and some Italian city-states. - I have done no particular study of the ages old conflict between G & T, but I am sure that T occupied G and the whole thing was 'sorted' in 1922.
Search for the Greco-Turkish War (1919–1922) to know more. This has hardly any significance today. Turkey being in NATO is one very good reason to discount the chance of further conflict.
A good sales tactic, perhaps, and I might look into ours and other European state's weaponry sales to Turkey, but not tonight.
A more acute reason for concern is that these tanks might be used against the internal population.
Add to this the opportunity this allows us to rent some of this ordinance should we yet again feel the need to kill and be killed far away. - Trojan War 1184-1174 BC. Troy was the major centre of influence in Asia Minor. And I didn't say 'at war'.
- Yes indeed, thank you Peter. That part of our world has long been a fulcrum of conflict where East meets West.
Turkey, along with Egypt, are also the bread of the Middle East sandwich.
Turkey is just another arms-market where the US giveth and taketh-away. As far as arms sales go.
I read that most recently they may have received...
"(WASHINGTON, Oct. 28, 2011)
DSCA notified Congress Oct. 28 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to the Government of Turkey of AH-1W SUPER COBRA Attack Helicopters."
[from...(http)://www.dsca.mil/PressReleases/36-b/36b_index.htm ] - barry fear not there is two ways it could have gone,1, the ninby way ie,a slap on the wrist or 2,giving him a 30 year life sentace /death penalty with no remission.
- The student's appeal yesterday was lost. Back to the pokey for him.
- "We get the ****** we deserve."
What a cop-out. This is what comes of dunking ones politics in 'T' for trite.
We certainly do not get the politicians we deserve, only those that hand the tea and biscuits around in order to work their way up an increasingly oily slope, their only traction coming from the word, "Yes" coupled with the phrase, "...sir, tea-bags full sir".
To get lumbered with some PR slime-ball was none of the public's doing.
Can we count that the decline stems from before, "It was the Sun wot won it!"?
Our present Parliamentary system has evolved into a sluggish delta largely untroubled by the effects of tide. It's waters murky, it's aspect oily and it's ripple-driven scum merely sloshing from side to side in the Commons. It's evil-smelling froth left occasionally high-and-dry, and so, adds itself to the silt and effluvium that has hereditarily washed down from the mists of time.
The answer could be immediate and simple, if not certain.
As I have said all along. Everybody should register to vote and determine within themselves that they WILL vote FOR a candidate/Party that has vision and is firmly committed to promote the common-weal.
As both you Barry and your Party are committed NOT to do anything of the sort the answer must lie elsewhere. - the tea and biscuits issue is all about trivia, we have had a couple of similar things happen locally.
the cost of a water cooler at council headquarters arose and tea and sausage rolls at council meetings.
the actual spend was tiny in the great scheme of things. - Definitely, politicians have lost the plot.
Apart from Eric Pickles, I can't think of anyone in Parliament who has done anything memorable.
The next G.E. won't be a tea and biscuit approach. - having tea and biscuits is allright,but watch that pickles cove he might scoff all the biscuits.
- brian
i think you will find that the photo above shows eric's serving. - Who cares about biscuits? Sorry but this is so trivial. The government are set to perform possibly the biggest U-turns so far. Ironically the limp dishcloths seem quite willing to back this one which is the monitoring of all email, internet traffic and phone calls made by everyone in the UK.
Now that is worth getting worked up about. Not only does this fly in the face of everything our pretend prime minister promised before the election but is ten times worse.
So if biscuits float your political boat go ahead and write about them while the rest of us read about more pressing items. - so much for small government devolving power down to the people!!
they are even telling food manufacturers what we are allowed to eat, i doubt if the politburo at the kremlin would have pulled the latest stunt if the internet had been around then.
incidentally philip are you a garibaldi or rich tea type? - Too right Howard. Mind you, as I predicted await the wail of protest from all "right thinking people" who hate the idea of the state dictating what they eat. Ring any bells?.......smoking ban for example?
Ah but smoking kills polar bears and childreeeen and it's evil and smelly and, and, and I hate the world Arrrgggghhhh.
Funny 'cos they started with smokers, turned to drinkers and now eaters and I think it's brilliant, truly brilliant.
Your'll recognise me in the street from now on - I'm the one with the really, really smug look of satisfaction on my face as "normal " people who don't smoke have problems paying more for the food they eat, that's if they're allowed to buy it.
As for biscuits, Howard, I'm a bit of a biscuit slut. I have a wide and eclectic taste. However I detest Garibaldi biscuits. Rich tea, malted milk, digestive (before the food police insisted on messing up the recipe), those lemon ones with flaky biscuits on the top and bottom. What time does the Co-op close?
- "stronger and fitter"? As much of the text suggests, is just another way of saying 'leaner & fitter'.
With almost a quarter of the financial-sector heading for the wall it is good news that the reshuffle of jobs can be called 'increased' employment.
The sentence, "The lastest good news is from the financial services sector. "
Put me in mind of somebody who has been long-suffering from a fell disease and who's term of remission has come to an end being cheered by the news that their cancer is in the pink.
I do get 'It' though.
The old ways of reckoning are so...well... old, outdated and ill-fit the present circumstance. There has to be more sackings, lower wages, next to no regulation and even less taxation then...
...more high end double glazing, more home repossessions, more scope for development...more high end double glazing.
Cash reserves have replaced employees everywhere you look and everywhere you look...the customers are idle.
Why don't these (would be) customers get off their behinds and find themselves good-paying jobs...get an additional Mortgage and buy back their homes and fit low grade double glazing? - Why not just welcome good news Tom?
Job increases, small businesses on a firmer footing with reserves and less debt, manufacturing doing well in the Midlands..... and so on. This is where recovery starts....
Making it easier for firms to sack people does not automatically mean more sackings.... It makes it easier to employ people and helps de-risk growth. More regulation does not mean better or more effective regulation either - it just means more costs and a bigger burden to hold back businesses from growing. - barry,you know the tune land of hope and glory,forget it its now been retitled land of no hope and glory.
- Interesting - the British Chamber of Commerce (the Dover Chamber is not a member and I have no inside information) has pretty much reported along the same lines as my observations today (3rd April).
They say the UK economy has grown 0.3% in Q1. - conflict in sources,who's right and who's wrong is ilrelavet,growth would be nice at about 3%,but we live in hope.
- If only 3% Brian!
I think the government would need to declare a few more fuel shortages to meet that figure! - trust you to try and set the world alight darren.
- DT - if we had 3% growth over a quarter then would be heading for different problems of an over-heating economy... - 12% over a full year flat, that's what roughly 15% compound. Inflation would let rip, imports would fill a productivity gap and we would end up back where we started, in recession as the economy corrects itself.
- i think that darren was joking barry i recognise the usual dry wit from him.
- He picked that up from a comment by Brian, Howard.
- exactly,but a good figure at least.
- "comments contrary to the values of the..." ?
-Royalty?
-Nobility?
-Established Church?
-Dignity of any public official?
-Party-donor/Global Envoy?
-Non-Dom fund raiser?
-Generous Lobbyist?
-Bank?
-Hedge-fund manager?
-etc, etc., etc...
Where would we all go?
Being French, this leaves his wife as fair game and ensures that his height is seen as an asset.
In the UK, where there is one law for the rich and another for the poor it is little wonder that the struggle for "Liberté, égalité, fraternité" goes on.
Plainly Barry. You do not want to have your cake and eat it. You would rather just have the cream and the cherries from everybody's cake.
I dare say France is a very nice (Nice. Get it?) place. Sort of a Surrey with fringe benefits on top?
A castle where a king may have died in his bed? Haste ye to Hastings and walk upon the sandy bed of another dead king?
Sarkozy has done something for the English language there though; 'is word is mightier that Le Pen. Or so he hopes. - Perhaps President Sarkozy doesn't have a Loony Left problem in France.
- maybe not alex,but may have loony niegbours instead.
- Nice picture Barry, Maarten once asked us if we would be interested in running the bar/restaurant he owns at the edge of the estate.
- It a very nice bar too Peter. In fact it is a top French jazz venue and is just outside the castle gate.
- Do you know why Maarten has put the estate up for sale, Barry? €24m is a bit beyond my budget unfortunately!
- peter,tuesdays euromillions top prize 32 million squids,enough to pay the gezzer cash in hand and enough left over to live on.
- He wants to buy a flat in Monaco and another just over the border in North Italy on the beach. He hopes to get a boat to travel between the two. He has rights to live in Monaco being a friend of Prince Ranier and he knows Prince Albert well.
This is partly driven by his distaste of the French authorities who have treated him badly to say the least. - Grant Schapps is the Housing Minister with Cabinet Rank. I knew him well when we travelled the country looking for Parliamentary constituencies to fight. He came second to Mark McGregor the Thanet South PPC before present MP Laura Sandys took over.
He has been to Dover & supports our regeneration plans. He has Ministerial responsibility for the Homes & Communities Agency which own Connaught Baracks & Betteshanger/Fowlmead project.
Definitely one to watch.
Watty - Barry you speak of the Conservatives as if they are in total power, they're not, instead we have a rocky coalition.
The Tory Party has not been in total power since 1997 which means that anybody under the age of 25 is unlikely to remember a Conservative Government.
The only things the Conservatives achieve when in power is recession, inflation, mass unemployment and social unrest, better off they disappear in to the annals of history. - Every single one of your favourites in the running for the leadership are what Margaret Thatcher would have described as the Tory wets. Socially and politically liberal, all deluded by environmental propaganda. They all seem like middle management material rather than men to run the country. Weak and bland in their ideas.
Perfect backbench fodder but leadership material? What a laugh.
If this is the best and the brightest than things are looking very bleak for the future. - Without a shadow of a doubt those you mention Barry are the very best the Conservative Party has as potential leader material.
I for one would be happy to see any of the above as Party Leader. - Alan - actually you will find that it is the Labour Party that, after every period in government since they first obtained power, has left office in a financial crisis and with unemployment higher than when they started. This is simple historical fact and is something that certainly cannot be said of the Conservative Party over the same period.
The truth is that the Conservative get blamed for the impact of the hard decisions needed to cure the economic mess Labour always create. It is no coincidence that the longest ever period of Labour in power has left us with the biggest ever financial crisis. The fact that other European countries made the same basic fiscal and monetary mistakes is no excuse for Labour incompetence.
The Labour Party is the natural party of opposition and is best left there. Opposition, not government, is where their skills set is.
Philip - I have to disagree. As a right wing traditionalist myself who was strongly and actively against the 'wets' you refer to I do not recognise them as that. Incidentally, 'back in the day' Eric Pickles, now regarded as a Thatcherite, was the leader of the 'wet' Heathite faction I was up against in the late 70's.... - i doubt that hague harbours any leadership ambitions now, george is not leadership material, gove is gove.
the last 4 i know nothing of so unless someone comes through the ranks it is left to hammond and schapps to fight it out. - I've told Charlie that if he throws his hat into the ring before he's got Dover sorted out, I'll stop bigging him up on the Forum.
- Yes I noticed Mr Schapps made several appearances across a range of programmes. They are wisely resting both Frances Maude and and Baroness Warsi for now...neither of these came across terribly well recently as we know..for gawdsake dont mention the Jerries..! The long grass awaits the aforementioned but not Schapps of course, he is on the rise. He has a nice easy TV manner and doesnt get involved in over the top political brawling.
The TV manner is all nowadays, this is where the voter is swayed one way or the other, where you catch him at his most relaxed...sipping tea in his/her easy chair. Somebody beating the desk is likely to put him off.
But speaking of rising stars. Labour has a selection of good ones too, rising young educated faces who seem to have more of chance, but it is some way down the road yet before they hit the frontline. The current crop of ageing Labour frontbenchers are not terribly inspiring..one thinks of Angela Eagle as one writes...too much cloth cap and not enough charisma. The current crop fell into the role when the stars of old Tony Blair, Jack Straw, Alastair Darling, and so on, went out into the wilderness....but in normal times they wouldnt be where they are.
But there are potential stars coming through. Chukka Ummuna is particularly good for Labour. But...could you ever see someone with a name like that as Prime Minister. Is the nation ready for that?...there are still so many prejudices. - just looking at the list above,and thought it was a new line up for the comendy store.
- Pedant's corner, There's no c in Shapps.
- whilst i agree that the mayoral contest is more important than the local elections i think you underestimate the mid term issue barry.
i think that the boris/ken one has all too play for as the former will be associated with the recent budget even though he had no say in it.
as for the locals i think the surprise will be that the yellows will do better than many people think.
in many traditional red and blue constituencies they are seen as the best people to run the council. - Howard - the LDs always do better than the polls suggest in local elections, sadly, though I disagree with your reason why.
The polls are moving firmly in Boris' direction giving him a 47/53 lead. Labour seem to be getting desperate and have given up on Livingstone as their campaign has shifted to desperation mode. It is now all about 'anyone but Boris' and thats according to the Grauniad!!!! - i think it was a serious error of judgment for the reds to stick with ken, a better choice would have been the shadow business secretary.
a londoner with the necessary charisma to take on the role, i can only think they are saving him for bigger things. - Boris seems to be interfering with London buses. Mainstream Anglicanism wants to take him to court now.
- such gay news alex.
- Why a Booklet? All that was needed was a button badge bearing the legend, "I agree with Barry Williams!"
No need for any space to remind us all that the 1930's were but nine years and eight months long. - You don't really have anything to say then Tom?
The facts and economic reality do not accord with your political viewpoint. - Barry,
The fact of the 'missing' four months is plenty in itself. I merely fight fire-with-fire.
You wave your 'Lucifer', I point up the conflagration.
"...In the 30's a Conservative-led Government (yes, a coalition...) cut actual spending by 10% per annum..."
Even with the 1930's lasting short of ten years:-
Year 1, 100%
Year 2, 90%
Year 3, 81%
Year 4, 72.9%
Year 5, 64.7%
Year 6, 57.5%
Year 7, 51%
Year 8, 46%
Year 9, 41.4% [you'll be kind enough to check my figures?]
If Hitler had not got in the way 'we' would owe the Banks trillions...oh, wait a mo. We do owe trillions.
"Public sector pay was actually reduced, not just frozen, Taxes were cut as well and in 1934 the top rate of income tax was cut to 22.5% and they increased personal allowances for all families with children. "
So, even with tax cuts and allowances the public sector worker took home less?
"Apart from that the main thrust was to encourage home ownership."
What with the Luftwaffe and all, what joy that the Mortgage was lost along with the home and the household.
[Not that I can quote figures, but neither do you.]
"...economic growth in the second half of the 1930s averaged 4% p.a."
Aren't half-truths, statistics and averages just the very best way to get a point across without there being any point made?
You do make it look as though Britain was ready for everything and all the world could throw at us.
On the industry front, this is not how I remember it. (from reading etc.)
But, yes. What War means, and the Devil supplies, is work for idle hands.
You see?
Averaged-out, the 1930's was all about the last four months.
Sometimes Barry, and you have had ample opportunity to learn this, less IS more.
- Tom, the 10% per annum cut was not compounded. Annual spending, real spending, was cut 10%, to phrase it another way. Your figures are totally bogus.
As for comment - how on earth can you suggest that cutting public spending increases public borrowing - there is something not right with your logic.
Of course public sector works did take home less. That was the point.
You jump to a lot more very strange conclusions there that I am not going to bother with. - of course they are bogus barry,they dont conform with your figures,
- "It took a National Government formed on August 24th (1931), dominated by Conservatives but led by the holdover Labour Premier Ramsay MacDonald, to push through limited cuts in unemployment benefit and public-sector salaries, but even these were too much for the affected to bear (leading to the famous “mutiny” of seamen at the naval base at Invergordon). Confidence, rather than being rebuilt, was dashed. With the Bank of England’s reserves approaching exhaustion, the decision was
taken to abandon the sterling parity on September 19th.
This was arguably the most important economic policy decision of the 1930s. What is surprising, in retrospect, is that the Bank of England and the government did not do more to defend the sterling parity in which they were so heavily invested."
"At least British exports stabilized in 1932, while continuing to fall elsewhere at an alarming rate. This much is explained by the depreciation of sterling. [from 4.86 to 3.40 against the Dollar]"
"The Bank of England responded to the removal of the gold-standard constraints by cutting interest rates to 2 per cent and keeping them there. The banks were helped by this decline in funding costs. Since their liabilities were denominated in sterling, their balance sheets were not compromised by depreciation of sterling, in contrast to the situation in other countries
(Grossman 1994). With no bank failures to destroy the value of financial assets, consumption remained stable by international standards (Richardson 1967, Broadberry 1988). Bond yields were also pushed down, enabling the government in the summer of 1932 to convert the 5 per cent War Loan to an issue yielding a more economical 3.5 per cent, in turn allowing its limited fiscal resources to be redeployed to other uses like support for the unemployed and salaries for public servants which had a more immediate impact on aggregate demand."
"...economic recovery in the 1930s was led by domestic demand and that the recovery of exports was a corollary. Other countries that abandoned the gold standard in the early 1930s recovered from the depression in similar fashion: the rate of growth was similar to Britain’s..."
"Fiscal Policy:Compared to cheap money, fiscal policy played little role in the recovery. This may come as a surprise to students of Keynesian economics, who are taught that fiscal policy is particularly effective for fighting depressions and that Keynes’ followers had demonstrated this in the 1930s. To be sure, Keynes and others had elaborated the case for a countercyclical fiscal policy to both the Macmillan Committee investigating the connections between trade and industry and the Economic Advisory Council advising the Government. But there remained obstacles to its implementation. Adherents to the “Treasury view” warned that an increase in deficit spending might raise questions about the prudence of a government with a history of budgetary problems and thereby undermine confidence and investment. A £500 million increase in government spending, which Thomas (1976) and Dimsdale and Horsewood (1995) estimate would have been required to put even a tenth of the unemployed back to work, would have radically transformed a central government budget amounting to less than twice that amount, even if the additional spending had been spread out over a number of years.13 Middleton (1985) exaggerates when he writes that such a program would have required the socialization of investment and the nationalization of industry, but he is right that it would have represented a very significant expansion of the role of government in the economy, something that did not yet command public support. Although the budget swung from a surplus of 0.4 per cent of GNP in 1929/30 to a deficit of 1.3 per cent of GDP in 1932/3, the constant employment budget (which corrects the actual budget for changes induced by the business cycle) in fact strengthened rather than weakening --from a surplus 0.4 per cent of GDP in 1929/30 to a surplus 3.0 per cent of GDP in 1932/3 (Middleton 1981) -- as the authorities raised taxes and cut spending in a desperate attempt to keep the deficit from widening further. Only in 1936-7 did the constant employment surplus decline significantly. This reflected not any putative influence of the Keynesian Revolution on
economic policy but diplomatic and military storm clouds. Defense spending rose from 2.7 per cent of GDP in fiscal year 1935/6 to 7.7 per cent in 1938/9. A radical break with traditional fiscal policy had finally taken place but without forcing the socialization of the British economy or undermining investor confidence, due more to Mr. Hitler than Mr. Keynes.
Thomas (1983) shows that spending on rearmament stimulated output and employment not just in defense-related industries such as iron, steel and engineering but economy wide. He estimates that it created 445,000 jobs already in 1935, reabsorbing some 15 per cent of the unemployed, and that by 1938 the number of jobs so created had risen to 1.5 million."
"Protection and Competition:
The other innovation in fiscal policy was the tariff. No one suffered more from the slump than producers of internationally traded goods; by the early 1930s producers in a variety of other sectors had joined the basic industries in blaming import competition for their plight. The political setback suffered by the Labour Party, which had the bad luck of occupying Downing Street when the 1931 financial crisis struck, allowed the Conservatives to finally push through the general tariff they had long espoused. It was shepherded in by a new Chancellor of the Exchequer, Neville Chamberlain, son of the long-time Conservative champion of protection. Adopted in 1932, the General Tariff applied a 10 per cent tax to imports, exempting only raw materials, and established an Import Duties Advisory Committee to consider applications for
higher rates. To prevent the tariff from disrupting relations with the Commonwealth countries, the government met with their representatives in Ottawa and negotiated an agreement to extend
preferential treatment to their exports in return for concessions on their treatment of British goods."
And finally...
"...the problems that developed in the interwar period proved remarkably persistent. Thus, the interwar period had conflicting implications for short-run macroeconomic stabilization and long-term growth. This was true in particular of the policies pursued in the 1930s, which developed out of the expanding role of government in the economy during the Great War and in the decade that followed. In a strongly deflationary environment like that of the 1930s, anything that pushed up prices and boosted demand was good for employment, profitability, and financial stability. This included cheap money, the tariff, and even
inducements to industrial collusion that prevented disastrous bankruptcies and disorderly exit that might have destabilized financial markets. But by creating an anti-competitive environment
and reducing the incentive for firms to make hard choices, these same policies slowed the pace of structural and organizational change, which prepared Britain poorly for participation in the
more intensely competitive world economy that emerged after World War II. The same policies that helped with the immediate economic crisis thus positioned Britain poorly to compete in the
long run."
From...[remember to cut out the () brackets]
(emlab.berkeley).edu/~eichengr/research/floudjohnsonchaptersep16-03.pdf
- He also wrote:
"The panic about climate change is also adding to bills. According to Ofgem, about 10 per cent, or £80, will effectively be added to a typical bill this year to pay for green initiatives. That is despite the fact gas produces a fraction of the carbon emissions of coal or oil. In December, governments will meet in Copenhagen to panic some more and you can guess whether that shindig will add to household bills or not. Politicians of all parties are determined to push up energy bills, even in a recession.
In this regard, the Conservatives are as bad as Labour – David Cameron is committed to reduce carbon emissions by a staggering 80 per cent, whatever the cost".
I suspect he is to be highly disappointed by Cameron's and Osbourne's efforts in many respects. - As the song has it, "like a circle, like a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel..."
We are again exactly where we began, or more precisely, where I came in.
The sole importance of the booklet mentioned above is that it and our beloved Barry agree. And that as far as things coming out all right in the end I trust we can all agree that, "It was Hitler wot done it!"
Clearly then, we are being asked to place our trust in imminent conflict. (which is just as well for such is the nature of Conservatives in Government...historically)
In short; Green Taxes are our current substitute for our wide and deep industrial heritage and that conflagration shall be our salvation.
Happily, there are other minds at work...
British monetary and fiscal policy in the 1930s.
[from: the Oxford review of economic policy]
"...makes clear the very particular economic and policy context of the time...
...what transpires is that lessons are typically stronger as negatives than as positives: namely what should not be done in general, as against what might be done, this largely situation specific."
............................................................
Crisis and recovery: historical perspectives on the Coalition's economic policies.
[from:.historyandpolicy.org]
"In the 1930s domestic recovery was rapid from 1932 onwards. In both cases [the 1890s & 1930s], growth was led by manufacturing and by housing. By contrast, the present crisis was precipitated by the collapse of a long-running property boom and there is little prospect of revival within the 5-year time frame outlined by the Coalition. Manufacturing will grow under the stimulus of devaluation, import substitution and the very low interest rates introduced since 2008. But it should be noted that manufacturing only accounts for 13% of GDP compared with 35%-40% in the 1890s and 1930s."
Their conclusion ends...
"There is therefore some justification for the critics' argument that the government is taking a gamble of unprecedented proportions that could result in historically low rates of growth for many years." - Good god - you have been busy this weekend.... no time to read that lot tonight....
- Where to begin?
Where else but on the extreme left.
-I don't know whether it was innate indecision that lead her to represent the South, West, North Folk or whether her intent was simply to play the Field.
-From the ridiculous to the simply sublime. The ex shop steward, non-practising barrister and mother of two grown daughters who has been introduced, I guess, to a new stylist. [I was going to joke about, Rather Broxtowe than camel-toe. But decided against it.]
-Well, well, well. A fairly common name, who'd a thunk it? A great boon though, to realise that it is not she who paints the dreamy landscapes. From Goldsmith to Hague and who was or was not the victim of Conservative bigotry. She enjoys a healthy majority in a newly created seat and likes the thought of killing people.
-Not a lot going on for a 'Leadstrom', but for 'Leadsom' (a name which matches the picture above) she fits in well;pro Europe, pro Trident, very pro Financial Services. Something of a one-trick-pony.
All in all every bit as worthy as the males featured earlier. The future Conservative Party Leadership contest is sure to find it's place, of all places, on the 'Dave' channel. - i would like to see mrs artilla the hun take the job.
- barry in your wildest dreams,and they could be right you know.
- The trouble is Barry that as it stands there is no vision to pull us out of this mess. Even if we were not faced with the massive economic problems we face and there was low inflation, relatively high employment and all the rest of it what would happen is that the government would inevitably spend our money on all things useless.
That's what they do.
I'll give you an example.
The government have promised to hand over a prize of £1 billion to anyone who can achieve carbon capture and storage.
So the idiots who run the country and are calling for cutbacks, austerity etc. etc. have the temerity to give away £1 billion to find a way to store carbon dioxide.
Now faced with that how on earth do you expect anyone to take the government seriously?
I mean come on it's true isn't it?
HS2, wind farms, borrowing more rather than cutting back, U-turns galore, the conservative's faux euroscepticism, the arrogance of the leadership in terms of the backbenchers, data and communications monitoring when they promised less, the list is long and very, very telling.
You wonder why the UKIP vote is higher than the lib dems in the latest polls. People just do not trust the tories any more. - I will not have internet access again until Monday so the blog will not now be updated until then.
- oh dear barry,cant bemoan about anything.
- Does the World work? If the world works, in what way does it work?
[I'm sure I said the following before, but we do seem to cover and recover much the same ground over and over again.]
Much time, thought, research and expertise can be employed in the study of the properties of the furry grey beast with the large ears and upon its method of operation and objectives.
Is it such a terrible thing that one group sees an elephant while the other group sees a mouse?
Nobody these days need trawl far to read of mankind's wrangling with how the world 'works'. From more than 2,500 years ago we have from Aesop:
The Frogs Desiring a King
THE FROGS were living as happy as could be in a marshy swamp that just suited them; they went splashing about caring for nobody and nobody troubling with them. But some of them thought that this was not right, that they should have a king and a proper constitution, so they determined to send up a petition to Jove to give them what they wanted. “Mighty Jove,” they cried, “send unto us a king that will rule over us and keep us in order.” Jove laughed at their croaking, and threw down into the swamp a huge Log, which came down—kersplash—into the swamp. The Frogs were frightened out of their lives by the commotion made in their midst, and all rushed to the bank to look at the horrible monster; but after a time, seeing that it did not move, one or two of the boldest of them ventured out towards the Log, and even dared to touch it; still it did not move. Then the greatest hero of the Frogs jumped upon the Log and commenced dancing up and down upon it, thereupon all the Frogs came and did the same; and for some time the Frogs went about their business every day without taking the slightest notice of their new King Log lying in their midst. But this did not suit them, so they sent another petition to Jove, and said to him, “We want a real king; one that will really rule over us.” Now this made Jove angry, so he sent among them a big Stork that soon set to work gobbling them all up. Then the Frogs repented when too late.
“BETTER NO RULE THAN CRUEL RULE.”
So much for man's desire to be ruled-over.
The world, being what it is, is equally if not more so littered with tales of great deeds accomplished by great men;Kings, Emperors and Tyrants. The mightier the foe the more mighty the hero! And history is written by the Victor after all, so failure is ever someone else's problem, someone else's fate.
[There is little point, perhaps, in mentioning that 'our' notions of Red & Blue originate in revolutionary France, where the Blue was on the left.]
But what of the 'real world'?
'Henry Blodget' writes at businessinsider dot com beginning with:-
"As the US struggles with a massive budget deficit, the conversation has obviously turned to taxes. Specifically, what should be done with them. Obviously, no one likes paying higher taxes, and everyone likes paying lower taxes. But we live in the real world, not fantasy-land. And in the real world, sometimes people have to do things they would prefer not to do--like pay taxes."
[Did we see that? " ...the real world, not fantasy-land."]
He goes on to say...
"Are taxes too high? Or are they too low?
Do high tax rates on "rich people" create a lazy population in which no one has an incentive to work hard?
And what about the Republican mantra that cutting taxes is always good for the economy, while raising taxes is always bad?
Thanks to the Tax Foundation and other sources, we've analyzed tax rates over the past century, along with government revenue and spending over the same period.
This analysis revealed a lot of surprising conclusions, including the following:
Today's government spending levels are indeed too high, at least relative to the average level of tax revenue the government has generated over the past 60 years. Unless Americans are willing to radically increase the amount of taxes they pay relative to GDP, government spending must be cut.
Today's income tax rates are strikingly low relative to the rates of the past century, especially for rich people. For most of the century, including some boom times, top-bracket income tax rates were much higher than they are today.
Contrary to what Republicans would have you believe, super-high tax rates on rich people do not appear to hurt the economy or make people lazy: During the 1950s and early 1960s, the top bracket income tax rate was over 90%--and the economy, middle-class, and stock market boomed.
Super-low tax rates on rich people also appear to be correlated with unsustainable sugar highs in the economy--brief, enjoyable booms followed by protracted busts. They also appear to be correlated with very high inequality. (For example, see the 1920s and now).
Periods of very low tax rates have been followed by periods with very high tax rates, and vice versa. So history suggests that tax rates will soon start going up.
Read more: (http)://www.businessinsider.com/history-of-tax-rates?op=1#ixzz1sqsDQAF9
My conclusion is that all this talk of Right & Left is just that "talk". We, the electorate of the UK, are coming to realise that this is pretty much all the Red and the Blue can do, 'talk the talk' and we know to our cost that both are utterly incapable of "Walking the walk!"
We, each and all, can see for ourselves just how the world works. It does not.
Any who can speak of "how the world works" mean how it works FOR THEM! - heard of this bloke before, all this stuff about purity makes him come across as sanctimonious.
i can see his appeal to the bible belt republicans, nowhere else though. - Sanctity and loyalty come first for me.
Obeying orders is vital, which avoids Sergeant's boot up the hind.
My motto is: I only obey orders!
Liberty: well I'm free to obey orders, which is fair, else a boot will take care.
But I wouldn't give this liberty up for all the riches in the world.!
Some believe in this party, some believe in that party.
I believe in the Fair Lady. - the figures as i expected,a double dip recsion means goverment policys are not working.
- Lets get back to reality....
- .. by that to the context in which I put the figures.
As I to assume then Brian that you will support the public sector spending cuts, tax cuts and red-tape cuts to which I refer.
Or are you still an advocate of Labour's voodoo economics that got us into the mess in the first place. - barry old chap,as i see it along with the other 26 euro countrys are thinking along those lines,but not the voodoo ones you mention.
- -"public sector pension liabilities".
This must include the public pension that everybody fortunate enough to live (increasingly) long enough will receive. Plus the redundancy sums paid out to the public sector employees soon to be on the dole. Less the extra to be paid by those still in work...only no. This extra is not intended to address any pension short-fall, because there is no such thing. Would that make it an extra tax paid only by those working in the public sector? [a little humour goes a long way]
-"Brown's 'off-balance sheet' debt"
Much of which the Blues did not dare to oppose. Much of which is down to horrendously one sided terms in the contracts that leaves that portion of the Private Sector involved quids-in and laughing their tails off while milking the country dry. Then there is QE. Was there ever a scheme that won more plaudits from National and business Leaders? But of course this measure has thus far only benefited Bankers and pan-national financiers, while at the same time beggaring everybody else. Yet the party of the Blue, being such a conglomerate of 'independent' individuals was, at one and the same time, for and against QE along along.
-"we are not locked into the Euro."
Not 'locked into', but shackled to. Willingly shackled to. I have mentioned the assistance lent to Greece in beggaring it's economy from such worthies as Germany, France and Great Britain. The three Nations who are weathering the storm the best. [I wonder how?]
We have also loaned the Euro quite a bit of our children's money, oh so fortunately for us we have the phrase, "some orderly defaults", to reassure us that this money shall be repaid with interest.
Being shackled to the Euro is a bit like the Warder shackled to the Convict. After they journey together through hardship it is impossible to tell the one from the other or which the Tony Curtis and which the Sidney Poitier.
-" He should be cutting the deficit a lot faster with deeper cuts so he can do more to help businesses to grow the economy out of trouble.
Where is this wealthy individual, so in need of further tax-breaks, who has made their money without recourse to customers? What business were they in? How will helping them help anybody else?
Over and above the repeated drivel that all our ills are the fault of somebody else sits Parliament Supreme. [I can say very little about Parliament because I am sure I don't know quite what it is. Such is the desert of British Citizenship]
However, we have all witnessed the Government of the day, whether in a tight spot or just for laughs, point it's finger along the length of some glistering trinket (Used since ancient times to ward off attack? Mace) and descry Her Royal Majesty's Opposition for their lack of ideas as to what best to do. So. Is it or is it not the responsibility of the entire mass of Politicians to muck-in and form a Parliament and argue their corner in order that the best way forward can be found? Is it this way for DC, was it this way for GB?
The wider the argument for increased cuts is, the shallower it is. The deeper the argument for increased cuts is, the narrower the focus on those who are to benefit. At it's most deep the argument concentrates upon only those who are harmed the least by the recession and by the proposed cuts, it's all about ME. At it's shallowest it's all about YOU. - Tom - once again a long, long response but sadly not actually offering any real constructive alternatives and full of misinterpretation and a lack of understanding of the economics. So where do I start...
The public sector pension liabilities I refer to are not the state pension but that owed to sustain the over-generous public sector schemes. These are the schemes which, to match, I would have to contribute at least 35% of my income to match and even then I would lack the guarantees. As indeed would anyone not employed by the State.
The 'off balance sheet debt' - well little was known about it because, well, it was off balance sheet.... We now know about private conversations from before 1997 in which Brown said he would exploit the PFI in ways never envisaged to hide spending and to disguise revenue spending as capital. The fact poor deals were obtained is a testament to the incompetence of government and Brown's fiscal foolishness. You cannot blame any businessman for coining it, no doubt driving home from signing a deal wondering about the idiocy of government. I certainly would have done exactly the same if lucky enough to have the chance.
I have certainly made my views known about the folly of QE, something much promoted by Keynseyan economists - a matter, incidentally, for the independent Bank of England and not the Treasury and government.
The Euro - no not shackled too, we have been fortunate enough to have sterling and so the exchange rate has been able to carry some of the burden of the economic problems. Yes, we are joining in the ill-considered bail-outs and I not hidden my disagreement with that.
I do not think your next point is worthy of an answer, the bit with 'wealthy individual' in it.
Next point, no it is quite certain where the fault lays, with government(s). Poor fiscal management since 1997 in the UK, increasing deficit spending off balance sheet while pretending to be reducing it then openly increasing it after 2001. Doing so in a part of the growth cycle when every good Kenseyan would say you should be reducing it - utterly bonkers.
As for cuts - well when you spend more than you have coming in, what is the answer? As any housewife would know, you reduce spending. Simples. But then basic economic facts always gives way to an economic dreamworld in which you can borrow and spend as much as you want for as long as you want when Labour and socialists get into power.
- Courtesy of the slog:
Question: Who is the third biggest arms importer in the world, behind India and China?
Answer: Greece
Question: If Greece had spent the EU average on defence over the past 10 years (1.7% of GDP
rather than spending 4% of GDP on defence, how much money would it have saved?
Answer: 52% of GDP, or 150billion euros
Question: In the period 2006-2010 which country was Germany’s largest market for munitions?
Answer: Greece, which accounted for 15% of total German arms sales.
Question: In the same period, what country was France’s largest arms export market in Europe (third
largest overall)?
Answer: Greece
Question: In 2010 (last year data is available) social spending in Greece was cut by 1.8bn Euros.
How much did military spending change? Was it…
a) Decreased by Euro 900 million
b) No change
c) Increased by Euro 900million
Answer: C
Conclusion: The other 25 eurozone States are all paying for the Franco-German arms industry.
Read more on the Slog. - Barry, this is your Blog. It is you who are expected to say something. If you wish applause for repeating the same mantra over and over again, well that's OK. This is your Blog and each time you post you do actually say something and even if it is the same thing over and over again. It is perhaps some kind of therapy. Even when I selflessly offer you an opportunity to say something other than the usual trite tripe you fail to respond adequately.
If we are to talk of the country's economy in terms of a household budget:-
There are lodgers aplenty. Why not increase their rent? These same lodgers carry-on their business in the comfort of the much put upon housewife's home. Should they not pay their fair share of the costs involved? They are great sportsmen also and not only do they track their mud and mire around the house they insist on doing their dirty laundry too. It has to be said that there is an uncle who helps with the laundry and somehow does well out of it, yet he does not think to pay his fair share of the household bills either. On top of all this these same lodgers work for firms that offer discounts on all the Utilities the housewife must pay, but they exchange their discounts for cash rather than help the much put upon housewife make ends meet. Even though the cash they get is far less than the discounts themselves, so the profit they get is less than the harm they do.
When any of the increases are proposed, even given that the extra would make such a difference and cost them next to nothing, they threaten to move off to a new landlady and leave the much put upon lady with the whole house to herself.
All too soon the housewife is going to call that bluff.
P.S.
You mention the sad state of your pension. Is this you putting your cap around for donations? - Perhaps if I and the majority were not subsidising public sector pensions by such a massive amount we could afford to put more into our own Tom.
Real life means there is a market. If we want to increase income we have to make sure we are competitive in the market and that goes for 'lodgers' as you put it. To increase income we should actually ensure that we get more in to be able to charge them rent!
If I repeat the solutions then it is because they are the solutions and that fact cannot be altered. All the economic evidence here and abroad demonstrates the failure of your big government, high tax, high regulation, high spending model and in fact is the cause of all our woes. - Sorry Barry but I think you're whistling in the wind, as indeed David Cameron is, judging by the latest tripe he's spouting.
Speaking at the Clean energy ministerial summit he said:
"passionately believed" renewables would prove "vital" to the country's future".
He went on to compound his foolishness by stating:
"Renewable energy is not just good for our environment but we believe it's very good business too."
This complete drivel goes on and on and merely compounds his position that he is unfit to govern.
If he can commit so much damage to the country's energy capability and industry you have to ask yourself how much damage are his economic policies having as well.
Complete plonker and unfit to govern but I suspect you secretly know this anyway. - "if I and the majority were not subsidising (public sector) pensions"
How does the above read now?
If I were to have some plumbing work carried out by your 'eternal holidaying' exemplar would it be reasonable of me to withhold some 10% of the payment because I was set against subsidising your pension?
Every time we purchase anything at all we are paying part of the wages and pensions of all of those involved in the creation of the consumable we purchase. [Alas, while we too pay for the tax that 'could' fall due this is often not paid, but it morphs instead into 'foreign earned profits' and bonuses. Is there something we could do about that?]
Any person who earns their living by 'speculating' on the Stock Market hopes to, and works to, gain by the population paying more for something than that something costs to produce. In this way we all, in dealing with quoted companies, work to the benefit of said speculators.
This whole scenario would appear on the face of it to be entirely one way traffic:The speculator gets a piece of every pound spent. What does the consumer gain?
The consumer gets to consume, but what then...back to the shop!
But, where does the consumer get the wherewithal to do so many favours for the speculator?
Could it be, must it only be, that the consumer is employed in the production of consumables that shall be sold to people just like them for more than it takes to produce?
So, magically. Through the natural processes of sunlight and rain: The Farmer grows grain;the Miller mills the grain;the Baker bakes the bread. Much the same process for the butter, the bacon, the lettuce and the tomato. What could possibly go wrong?
Just as long as all concerned are willing to live by BLT alone...
Things do go wrong, things always do. But the Blacksmith and the Carpenter can live just as well as the rest on their simple, wholesome diet and a high birth rate will take care of the rest. (just as long as it tallies with the mortality rate)
Enter; the Insurance broker, the Banker and the Speculator, and the Lawyer, the Judge and the Policeman. And soon, by some fell twist of fate The Regulator. Oh! Deary, deary me. Things do seem to be getting increasingly complicated. [But, Oh Lord in Heaven, just as long as things don't get Complex,]
Here is where you and I diverge Barry. I prefer Complex and you'd rather we stuck to Complicated.
For...
When things are Complicated they can (by definition) be made simple.
Gone are the paltry concerns of: Wherewithal, Health, Education, Infrastructure and Farmer, Miller, Baker, Blacksmith...Lawyer...Regulator. And if not 'gone' entirely they are present and effecting only as far as you see fit. Because you have gone for simple in a big way...
Money is all.
I, as I have said, far prefer Complex.
Simple? Pah! Humbug! Let all gears mesh and have all lubricated by earning-spending-earning-spending-earning-...
And, as with the common IC engine, let most of the oil in the sump be readily available to be re-employed to lubricate the whole Complex mechanism.
Money as ready lubricant.
It is the entirely non-productive Sector:the Speculators. That seek to tap the sump and store the lubricant outwith the mechanism, and hold the world to ransom, that hold back growth. It is those same few who think that great wealth is the Elixir of Eternal Youth. And here is the very Rub; If you think yourself eternal what need you of Industry, Commerce or any life except your own? [And what need you of Pension?]
You may be a True Blue, but that only makes you as wrong as they are. No more than that. - Blimey you are getting more eserotic in every reply Tom.
The non-productive sector is the public sector.
They do not add to the wealth of the nation, they merely feed on it, it is inefficient and expensive. This is not to say that some public sector is not necessary or indeed to say that some public spending is not important for wealth generation, but that sector has grown out of all proportions and is sucking up over 50% of the wealth of this country. At that level it is nothing but a burden the rest of us have to suffer and must be cut back to a more manageable and sustainable size focussing on more efficient spending on areas of relative competence (there are few of these!)
The public sector pensions are simply unaffordable by we in the private sector and are part of this massive burden.
If we want a more competitive and prosperous economy then we must lighten the load otherwise within a generation or two we will be the new 'third world'.
The Olympics are coming up and the UK economy is like a marathon runner competing while carrying a burden greater than his own bodyweight, against competitors carrying half, or less, than their bodyweight.
That is why we are in relative decline as an economy - look around, look at what is happening in the world.
I do so every day when I am trying to decide where I invest money and right now I am reducing my weightings in Europe and the UK in favour of the more energetic and dynamic economies. This is happening all the time across the world and is set to increase - a disaster for the UK and EU economies in the making. - As the Marathon does not appear to be in the least 'esoteric'*, let us run with that.
You would watch the British runner struggle, remove his water and feed stations and give them over to a competitor, but hold onto the complaint that it was only his lack of a decent hair-cut that cost him the race?
The removal of so many jobs in the west to be given over to sweat-shops in the east;you would say has been entirely benign or good for our economy, even though the produce of this off-shore industry must still have it's market in the west?
Not until the west resembles the Third World will it be worthwhile investing here.
OR
If we are not careful we shall become a Third World Nation?
And you say that it is I who are 'esoteric'?
*
es·o·ter·ic
(adjective)
Understood by or meant for only the select few who have special knowledge or interest. - Very weird Tom, weirder and wierder.
Stop the world I want to get off, that is your message as far as I can tell anyway. - Interesting that two of the countries with a surplus, Hungary and Estonia, have a flat tax system.
- Well spotted Colin.
- Hang on a minute. I know your'll ignore this Barry but can you explain exactly why Cameron has agreed to give away £60 million of our money to third world countries in order that they can play with the carbon capture and storage myth? This is what the "leader" of our country has promised. Re-read what you say above in your latest missive and justify this handout.
Oh I'm sorry you ignore my postings telling me I'm always going on about the environment and all that.
Tell you what if you give me and others an explanation worth anything I'll promise to donate a fiver to the world wildlife fund for nature or even greenpeace.
Remember now you don't believe in man-made global warming so be careful now. - Philip - I have said before that I have great sympathy for your views on the 'great green scam' but I do think you are too obsessed by it and go too far.
- Erm, you still haven't answered the question.
- That's because I do not justify it and I would not do this.
- The reasons for 'Governmental' largesse are two-fold:-
-This pleases the Credit Rating Agencies. [To a far greater extent than any talk of reductions on spending and borrowing.]*
-It is yet another avenue of extracting 'wealth' from the bulk of the population and channelling it into the coffers of the few.
*
Think of the Credit Card Industry. Any who are falling behind with their payments are, nevertheless, offered even more credit and even more risky and expensive forms of credit.
Defence spending.
[Without reference to the points both I and Philip have recently made in this regard.]
The 'Defence' Industry is at the forefront of Democracy double-speak.
Governments of all colours and shades have acted to distance Political involvement and control from all sectors of the Arms Industry over many years. This tail now wags the dog. However, the part public money plays in this game goes from strength to strength. From the occult nature of Exports Credit Guarantees right down to the high price of the nuts and bolts etc. - I did not watch the interview, but that has nor prevented me from seeing a part of it. The part about Dave and James and what they did or did not discuss.
If ever the question, "Did you strike any sort of deal with Murdoch?", was put to him, his answer was very odd.
Why all the adjectival elaboration? Why is it now that "No grand deal was struck"? Why not a simple "No!"?
Dissembling. Is the only word for it.
As ever, it must be that there is a shred of honesty in the man that prevents him from lying outright, but not enough to drag the truth from him. - He said no - there was no disassembling at all. You would have found fault whatever he said or however he said it.
- He said "no" what?
- So...We have one person who at one time was given the confidence and encouragement and perhaps some other boost(s) from a one-time boss to go forth and better her earning potential.
This person has earned enough to see her coasting nicely until retirement, a retirement that will be augmented by a tax-assisted scheme that makes them winners all round.
Fortunately for the world as a whole women with children are no longer abandoned by their partners and the fathers of their offspring. There is nobody, no needy potential assistant, who could have benefited by the same encouragement and assistance that allowed for such (personal) wealth creation. No other businessman similarly inclined to assist their assistant is adversely affected by this either, it would seem.
It is only the nation and the world as a whole that suffers because of a...neat tax efficient pension scheme, legitimised as part of the current tax system and rates, a tax system so swinging yet so ordered that it allowed the accrual of sufficient funds to allow for a slow-down of 'productivity'.
I wonder how much that old boss was earning, how much of his earnings were taxed and at what rate? What prevented him from throwing-in the towel and instead of affording his typist every assistance swanning off to an early retirement?
Is it the tax system and the tax rates that hold abandoned women, and the much derided workforce as a whole, back from achieving their dreams?
Or could it be that 'selfishness' is now all the rage?
Or could it be the honeyed words of the carpet-bagger alighting softly upon the ears of those with a bit of spare cash..."tax is bad, tax is bad...for a small fee...only a small fee..."? - So what are you trying to say Tom? Don't be shy, tell us.
- I'm glad you asked Barry, but not surprised that all you have done is to enquire further of me.
I returned a moment ago from a walk and while I walk my mind tends to turn-over matters various. I did think, that had I the option to edit my post below, there were a few things I could add. So messy to have new upon old.
So just what can an individual achieve and what circumstances overall could help? [given that I have also decided not to do all the work again]
Your tale begins more than twenty and perhaps fewer than thirty years ago.
1-A boss, who despite working hard and being taxed a 'great deal', not only continues his endeavours, but offers assistance and encouragement to his staff.
2-A tax-spend that offers free tuition and Mandatory Grants for tertiary education.
3-An amount of grit within an individual that finds traction by way of points 1&2 above.
I would never dare ascribe such philosophy as, "The working class can kiss my..." to the unknown individual you cite, nevertheless, somewhere along the line the selflessness and giving of one employer has been turned upon it's head.
Whether it was seeing so many people in a similar situation able to work their way around the seeming iniquitous drudgery of continued employment and tax-paying and by enquiry or unsolicited mail shot learning how to join with the happy throng, I leave to the reader to ponder.
What of the high taxation of this yesteryear, the generous and targeted tax-spend?
I do so hope that all those others in the UK who were similarly taxed during that time, but who have never enjoyed further education or any of the myriad benefits that stem there-from take any mention, quotation or not, of "All my own hard work." in good part.
Finally,
I wonder how a young working woman, four children and abandoned by her 'mate', in this day and age would fare?
I might well wonder, but the reasons why the outcome would not likely be so rosy are not too difficult to fathom. - Clear as mud then....
No acknowledgement of a decent employer who gave her encouragement and some practical help.
No acknowledgement of her personal achievements brought about by very hard work, dedication and commitment.
No acknowledgement of the simple economics issues highlighted here.
Just what appear to be snide remarks hinting perhaps of a snearing attitude to people who have drive and ambition.
I say appear, because, as I said, it is all as clear as mud. - I' shall leave it for others to judge where truth lies.
- Well illustrated, Barry.
Forget the politics the figures speak for themselves. - Yes, well illustrated.
It's a shame that well motivated individuals like her will now find it impossible to achieve such things.
In the time period you state, she would have received paid tuition fees, a maintenance full grant and, due to her circumstances, a bursary from the university.
Didn't the State used to be such a wonderful thing?
She would now have to do 9k of typing in the evenings a year whilst raising a family...that's a lot of typing - and that would just be tuition fees. - That was the good old days when we had Mrs T at the helm...
The real point, of course, relates to motivation and the way people react and behave in a range of circumstances.
This is lost on the left and that is why they are such an economic and social disaster in office. - "The real point"
The real point is that the resourcefulness of the individual, way back then, found traction, as I have stated, only with the support and assistance of both the big-heartedness of the boss and the generous assistance from the state.
Taking the second aspect first:This was voided by Thatcher in 1998.
The alteration, over time, to the first aspect is by far the most telling.
"Where there was heart, is now heartless."
The days when a boss would give a damn about an employee have gone, apparently.
The age when one who reaches a summit through the use of a rope would turn and pull the next up behind him are gone. Now those who enjoy such success turn to those still climbing and pull the rope from them.
While I do acclaim the character of the 'good employer' in this parable, (whether any care to read that I do, I am powerless to affect) in all parables there is a contrast to be made.
It may be that each and all with the grit to succeed, succeed only at a cost to their character.
Are those, other than myself, who wish to speak well of 'the good employer' aware that their praise is both shallow and two-edged?
How else can one praise the good-works of one and the selfishness of the other? Are not those others who praise 'the good employer' laughing also at his folly of caring, assisting and general willingness to employ? It must be so, for there is empathy, sympathy and ra-ra cheering for the one who shuns employing people in favour of entire self interest.
I ask again. Where did this all go wrong?
Why is all praise these days for those who turn their head away from any and all who today have the needs they had some time ago?
Does not the above tale of "Rouges to riches." have other rouges than the abandoning mate?
Again, I say. It is not for me to ascribe "a certain lack of character" to the individual 'heroine', but there is scope within the tale for such a conclusion to be drawn.
No. [and I am aware that here lies the 'rub']
Was there no cooing voice in the ear of 'the good employer'? No clarion-call to selfishness? Was he free to act to the benefit of our heroine at some cost to himself, where now others are encouraged to act only in their own interest?
The Left don't get it, you say. Perhaps not, but the Left do give it. - Still clear as mud Tom.
But it seems to remain very snearing at someone's success. Your hatred of the private sector and individual choice and freedom comes across and you are totally wrong in your assumptions about businesses. Well, that's as far as I can make out anyway.
If you had your way we would all be working as slaves to the big State. - "There are none so blind as those who will not see."
"sneer" Is your word. And oh how you sneer at the giving nature of the 'good employer'. Oh how you deride his view of how the successful should care for and afford all assistance to their employees. Far better, to hear your view, that they up-sticks and abandon enterprise and commerce and coast to an easy and tax-assisted retirement.
If there is the least thing to crow about with your own idea of a perfect world Barry, let's hear it.
"I wonder how a young working woman, four children and abandoned by her 'mate', in this day and age would fare?"
Answer that question!
In what way does your view of how an economy should be run offer an improved outlook for such as your exemplar. If she were to have her time again in your Utopia? - One thing is for sure - at the end of the day it all depends on the motivation and drive of the individual. Everything depends on that. The State can get in the way and hinder or get out of the way and allow matters to progress.
You seem to suggest that she is selfish for deciding not to pursue building an ever bigger business empire because of the way she gets hammered by tax and she should not, having developed a successful career, spend more time with her family instead. This lady has done a great deal for the business community including. in the past, acting as a business angel. Now she will not have excess funds to do that - why, because of the daylight robbery of government has changed the balance in favour of her working less hard and enjoying life more.
Good for her, she is free to make such decisions and so she should be.
Government and a crazy tax system tipped the balance and no-one reasonable can blame her. - Self satisfaction is a rich seam that runs all the way through Conservatism. That there is an outcrop here in a Conservative Party-Political Blog surprises none.
How, other than smug, can somebody with a sweet tooth who owns a confectionery be?
One thing is for sure - it does all depend on the drive and the motivation of many an individual to make ends meet, week-in and week-out, when the Conservatives hold the reins of our economy.
One thing is for sure - no amount of motivation and drive, without support and backing, can hope to win through. No determined and focussed Marathon Runner jogs out from home all the way to the starting line, runs their race, and then jogs all the back home. No intrepid Mountaineer reaches any summit unless and until they, with much support, have won sufficient backing to make their attempt possible.
One thing is for sure - many thousands who paid into the 'big-state' all those years ago and asked for nothing have been granted precisely that...nothing. A few, but still thousands, who took all that that 'big-state' had to offer and ran with it have reaped reward upon reward and a portion of them are now laughing all the way to easy street.
One thing is for sure - If there was no unproductive set within the Private Sector whose sole purpose in life was to convince those who had/have determination and drive that now is the time to give-up, to yield in life's incessant struggle. To now see the folly of continuing and to see the particular benefit of again taking full advantage of the present 'chalk-tax-niceties' where once they took full advantage of the past's 'cheese-tax-spend'.
One thing is for sure - Without the benefit of the big-state looking to the good of all by taking from the fruits of all there would be no tale to tell.
But, as long as all concerned are content we can be certain that all are Conservatives. - Wind turbine toryism. I heard this for the first time this evening and it made me laugh out loud. A brilliant description of the current state of the tory leadership, the 301 group and other hangers on in the party.
- Yes indeed, a few more successes like this one and the Conservatives will be where they deserve to be.
The appalling turnout of the faithful Conservative support may show them to be entirely in-line with the core needs of the Party. The need to have New Labour councils and councillors to blame for the lack of magic resulting from the reinvigorated Conservative wand.
Time is certainly running out for achieving the amount of 'bounce-back' required to display justification for the spend on redundancy and unemployment benefit and the repeated easing of the burden of taxation as far as growth is concerned, before the next election.
It may be too late for Steve Jobs, but surely the peerages and knighthoods shall be flying off the shelves to register a Nations undying gratitude to his ilk for ensuring that our supine readiness to again do business in the interests of the few is transmitted to the beaches and bars of the far-flung hog-wallowing pits of those with the cash, and the renewed assurances of risk free and tax free opportunities open to them in the barrio-nuevo UK, that is the latest BRIC economy to hit the Global Marketplace.
The Union Jack may still be flying over the Falklands while we at home enjoy the benefits of our very own version of the Argentinian Juntas of times past. - Jean-Paul Sartre* was French and knew a thing or two about Greece and the Greeks.
"Hell is other people."
How true. It might be considered a pity that the real world is not populated with the same back-slapping, nodding in agreement, hear-hear chanting clones that play audience to our innermost perorations, but it is a sure sign that we are indeed in the real world when we are confronted by those who disagree. C'est la vie!
"Evil is the product of the ability of humans to make abstract that which is concrete."
Economics before Ergonomics, Lucre above Life and Fate over Faith. Tel est l'art?
"A lost battle is a battle one thinks one has lost."
A lesson that any may learn. C'est la guerre.
"Freedom is what you do with what's been done to you."
The denial of this truth is what has come to define politics in the UK. Who can be said to be free to choose without choice? The whole of humankind, according to the brand of Conservatism preached here. C'est toujours pareil, avec toi.
"Generosity is nothing else than a craze to possess. All which I abandon, all which I give, I enjoy in a higher manner through the fact that I give it away. To give is to enjoy possessively the object which one gives." C'est ici.
*Read more at: brainyquote.com/quotes/authors/j/jeanpaul_sartre.html - Barry all this schadenfreude does nobody any good. Expect the same that the Greeks are experiencing in a country near you, namely the UK.
No growth prospects, money printing, more debt, no vision, energy policies designed to destroy our industry and other reasons create a mix for poverty and social unrest over here. The trouble is, as Cameron declared today, government policies will remain on track.
A long and slow decline.
Progressive conservatism eh? - The problems with government policy I have explained before Philip.
Public spending being cut too little too slow.
The need to put economic considerations before political considerations
The need to cut taxes
The need to make a bonfire of red tape and to liberalise the employment market.
None of this is a mystery. Osborne is just doing the minimum needed to stop the bond markets punishing the UK.
- It's a little late Barry but I think you've finally seen the light.
- errrrr no Philip - I assume you refer to your personal obsession. I have always been a sceptic over the green agenda and said so. The difference is that I am not obsessed by it, I see the whole picture and have a more balanced overall view.
- Oh dear touched a raw nerve there Barry? If you go back through many of my posts I refer to other shortcomings (to say the least) with the leadership of the conservatives. Time and time again you have ignored my postings or made some sarcy remark just as you have done today.
But as usual you continue to follow the general consensus on conservativehome which is now anti-Cameron so you feel safe to do so. As for my obsession you told us all that you had a more balanced view on the conservatives green measures.
Time and time again I've asked you to explain your balanced view and you still refuse to do so.
Because you can't.
The only balanced picture you see is the recieved view from the broad consensus which really is no view worth listening to. - The abuse of armed forces personnel must be as old as the notion of a Standing Army itself, and as ever is more telling coming from Parliament than pavement.
It was not so long ago that ex-servicemen took an opportunity to display their disapprobation to the Politicians of this, 'wars of choice', age in which we now live.
Indeed, what goes around, comes around. One only has to enquire of a black-citizen/jungle bunny to again learn that all forms of abuse take the path of least resistance.
Yes, our parent's generation fought bravely at home and abroad, little thinking that their struggle and their achievements would be played-out and replayed out in dance-hall fashion while the freedoms they fought for continue to be denied their descendants. As every World-Cup Competition is 1966 all over again so every bout of killing and death is contrived to be as the Glories of the past.
Abuse on the street and feting in the park are not opposites, the one does not run counter to the other. They go hand-in-hand. The more our fighting-fellows are set apart, the more they are apart set.
Our ex-service personnel do need our every assistance and support for when their 'Queen' and Country* no longer has need of them their fellow citizens are all they have. It is the very Hall-Mark of Britishness, that those who have least give most.
*Parliament. More correctly.
- If Greece goes back to the drachma it will cause a strengthening of the euro, further increasing the pain of the other PIGS.
- It has also been suggested that Germany's biggest fear is that out of the Euro and having been able to devalue Greece will boom. In doing that the way forward will have been demonstrated to other weak currencies like Spain who will then want out of the Euro.
Then what happens? the value of the Euro rises and Germany no longer enjoys the competitive advantage brought about by the downward pressure of the weak currencies.
In effect you can say that Germany wants to sacrifice the Greek and Spanish economies by keeping them in the Euro for their own gain... - second para below, a typo - read 'other weak economies' not currencies...
- February 1st. 2012:
Barry Williams, Dover:
Philip - you are once again well over the top but there is a nugget of truth in what you say.
There is a financial storm approaching and it is the EU, still hiding from reality, that will be at the centre of it.
1 February 2012 at 7:33 AM
PhilipP, Dover:
I think you're right Howard. This decision came from the top old boy, I say that chap, Goodwin isn't it, I think it prudent to find a way to, let's say, let him be cast adrift. Thank you my man, another brandy and be quick about it.
I suspect we are fast approaching D-day. Zero hour. It's 59 minutes to 12.
I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but very soon, sooner than you all think. it will be crunch time.
Global depression and crash. Panic will set in very quickly more quickly than you could ever imagine. The crash will be swift and severe. Billions upon billions will be worthless paper (which of course it is at the moment) but officially it will be extremely worthless.
This is not the rantings of a tin foil hat wearer but someone who sees the signs and will still be amazed by the speed of how events will unfold.
Expect sharp drops in the stock markets over a period of a few days, a week or so. Then laugh at talking head expert economists giving their take on the situation. Some perplexed, some (lying through their teeth) telling us they too spotted the signs.
Expect political leaders to try desperately to calm the markets and people telling us that all is well and there's nothing to worry about.
Then more sharp declines followed by panic measures by various states in order to "do something".
This heralds the suckers rally where naive fools see an upward swing and pile in, in the hope of buying low in order to sell high........but...
lower it goes.
And the rest is history. - after reading about the greeks emptying their bank accounts and the strong likelihood of contagion setting in and spreading to the iberian peninsular the doomsday scenario does not seem over the top.
dave sounded desperate today when he demanded that the eurozone sort out a master plan and get on with it. - Not doomsday Howard - the break-up of the Eurozone will spark recovery.
There will be initial shocks and as I have explained the desperate Europhiles will exaggerate the doom and gloom, because it will mark the end of their Euro dream.
It will be difficult and I see my financial storm metaphor has been used by William Haig. The Euro was ill conceived in the first place and a correction is overdue.
A break-up will cause damage economically in the first instance but that can be minimised if it is ordered and planned as I said. The most damage will occur if it is a shambles. - Any Greek with money in a Greek bank would be mad to leave it there. Soon he will find it converted to drachmae and worth half what it was. Also an interesting question as to what becomes of Greek-issued € notes and coin?
- They would be devalued Peter and have an identification to ensure that this could be done. Anyone with a stock of Euros would be well advised to check they are not Greek issued notes. Sorry I do not remember the specific id number, a google might throw some light on it for anyone who wants to check.
- The letter at the beginning of the serial number is a Y for Greek notes.
- I know an entrepreneur who found that the only way to compete in China was to build a factory in Thailand where the total cost per employee in his happy well-paid workforce (by local standards) is slightly more than the cost of NICs alone for a worker in UK. And apparently the quality of the product is better, too.
- "An end to (Conservative) boom and bust!"?
It appears that the coalition's distinct 'brand', is but a re-heating of the Brown Iron, eh?
Necessity is, they say, the mother of invention, but Desperation begets not at all, but relies instead on cloning. Political clones and Financial Forecast clones. [Though 'TA' (what ever it may be) does have a certain je-ne-sais-quoi...but enough about me.]
As the 'glow-in-the-dark' workforce of our bright new future weaves it's weary way through and around nuclear power-houses and their waste dumps, from it's many hovels to the palaces of industry and commerce, oh how they shall sing...
"If it's not broke, then why fix it
best we leave what's well, alone
(best to decouple wealth from woe)
for all the sins of the few greedy
let the poor alone atone
forsake Godhead, worship £ucre
ever darkest 'fore the dawn
bitter pills are best with sucre
create ash-fields, call them 'lawn'..."
- There will always be an economic cycle Tom.... It is natural. But, if we want to avoid the kind of massive downturns such as we have now and had regularly in the past and if we want to be more competitive then we must reduce the level of public spending to the 30% level.
Consider how stable a pyramid would be standing on its tip... that is what we have now with the current public spending level being supported by the private sector. - This pyramid of which you speak Barry, may indeed be point-down, but it certainly does not stand upon it's tip, far, far from it.
The pyramid of 'private-enterprise' has it's tip well and truely buried, nigh to the base, in the public-pap.
PFI is not the whole story, but it is more than just the headline grabber. Between the vast public over-spend in PFI and the systemically lax attitude to tax gathering, one would be hard-pushed to name any major 'wealth-creating' concern that is not addicted to public largesse.
In any properly run Democracy the citizenry would require a strong representative Government to look after and further the aims of and the well-being of that same citizenry.
BUT
In a democracy run solely for the benefit of those 'destined' to hold power, wielding both the shield of self-interest and the sword of fear, astride a hobby-horse caparisoned with idyllic scenes of some imagined future joyfulness picked-out with threads 'or' and 'argent', what thrives are agents and apologists.
You may trill the same old litanous lyric as oft as you see fit Barry, but it shall never ring true. - Tom, If a firm generates revenue from the public sector then it is part of the public sector to the extent of that revenue. It is called the secondary public sector and is contained in the figure for public sector GDP. This is all paid for by the private sector ultimately, every penny of it.
- Barry, in your blog post, you failed to mention the enormous proportion of budget that goes to service the sovereign debt, including the interest.
Unless we sort out the huge sovereign debt, we won't get far.
Hence we need a wealth redistribution Act, the super-rich must hand over a considerable part of their private assets to the State.
Without this necessary link in economic planning, we will never get out of the black-hole. - So you want to rob people of their wealth because of the incompetence of the previous government. Madness. The economic consequences of such a theft would be disastrous.
- Alexander, well said. You are on the right track.
Barry, you raise a noisy eyebrow, but nothing more.
And now to God's own country.
"their share" The imposition of debt is not a form of theft then?
"any kind of subsidy" How, kind.
"preferential treatment" Now we come to it. If 'they' get a turn they may take a turn?
As in Westminster, so in Dover. With so much going on and so much going wrong it is better to again ignore the inconvenient realities and turn to distraction.
I wish, firmly, to keep the UK as it is yet I tremble at the thought that I could be classed as a Unionist. Perhaps the time is conjured to be right to re-emphasise the terminal word of your party's name, "The Conservative and Unionist", now that it has lost much of the inconvenient association with the 'Ulster' question.
What with 'everybody else' being in possession of the rigging it is only fitting that the Conservatives are content with their mastery of the 'bilge'. - The super-rich, Barry, are generally considered those with personal assets of hundreds of millions of pounds.
Twenty-five percent of the UK's wealth belongs to 1% of the population.
What I suggest is not theft. Indeed, in the Bible, a periodic redistribution of wealth and the periodic annulment of personal debt is a part of God's Law.
I haven't as yet mentioned the not-so-rich with private assets of tens of millions of pounds.
Yet you say I want to rob people of their wealth.
Now where do you believe this surplus wealth would go to, Barry, once a Wealth Redistribution Act took place?
To the Treasury, of-course, and then to be used for the good of society, to the benefit of the many.
It is only a matter of time before this comes about, as more and more people realise there is no other way forward. Oh! And the idea will spread far and wide, so no chance of the super rich transferring their multi-assets, in the form of papers, in a brief-case, or through a bank transaction, to another country.
The stolen assets would simply be returned to the country of origin by the authorities of the country to where they were taken.
You already tried scaring us with the prospect of the extremely rich transferring their wealth abroad, but then you also said that bankers deprived of their multi-bonuses would disappear abroad and find another job.
This latter proved to be a great joke, as many bankers are being made redundant, in Britain and Europe.
The game is over, Barry! The days where the stink-rich with hundreds of millions in private assets continue getting richer, are coming rapidly to an end.
It is a mathematical reality, as sure as each month starts with the 1st. - Alexander. You would destroy inward investment, cause capital flight and destroy not thousands, not hundreds of thousands but millions of jobs. What you suggest would end our status as a prosperous commercial trading nation.
This kind of extremism does not belong outside some half-baked left wing student debating society. - Totally untrue, Barry!
These assets would continue to exist in the banks and wherever, but in the State's name. The State could then sell them to banks for hard cash.
So the assets would not be lost to the economy, only the ownership would change.
With the cash revenues, we're talking here of Britain's richest 1,000 holding private assets for over £400 billion, the State could completely change the economic crisis.
I have not mentioned yet those who rank from 1001 to 2,000 on the chart of Britain's rich. These only have private assets of tens of millions to hundreds of millions of pounds EACH.
These are far too poor to consider, even I have more than they do. Ha ha! - Theft, sheer theft Alexander with the disastrous consequences I referred to. Your all powerful confiscatory State would resemble Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union and would not be a country that I or anyone in their right minds would want to live in.
- Barry, I did not ever preach in my life incarcerating people on account of their being rich, or taking their life from them.
Nor reducing rich people into poverty.
In my vision, these super-rich I referred to would still be very rich people, but perhaps, someone with hundreds of millions of pounds worth of private assets might have millions of pounds worth of private assets instead, once the transfer scheme has taken place and their surplus is conveyed over to the Treasury.
Of-course you need not agree, but the comparison you make is really unfair. - However you dress up that disgusting policy that you are advocating it is theft, simple theft and it would have disastrous economic consequences.
"""Not guilty guv, 'cos that old lady I mugged was rich and I only stole £1,000"""
It does not wash. - Was your last line referring to eat or heat, Barry?
Elderly people travelling all day in Winter on the bus with their free travel pass in order to remain warm? - Typical tories. They get one of their clan to come up with a reasonable speech which appeals to the blue rinsers and they call for them to become leader much like the way Cameron was elected leader. Repent at leisure is a phrase that springs to mind.
Still Gove, anybody, can't be as bad as Cameron when it comes to leadership. - Can it get poorer, sadder and duller, Barry?
- Everything is relative. (Especially if said relationship can involve Winston Churchill.)
One must be sure, however, not to conflate 'Our Liz' with the notion of Monarchy in general.
She is the very 'Volkswagen' of a terrible Political Ideology.
What's more, the thing that puts the 'bog' in any standard Republic is the cult of personality that yields-up sundry Generalissimos and Popinjays festooned with medals, sashes and ribbons. We should not seek to emulate Royalty, but to supersede it.
It is perhaps the struggle of a President to embody the character of a Nation and the struggle too of the Citizenry to fit the personality of one freely chosen to lead with that same National character that serves best to remind all that we are each created equal.
Compare such struggles with the relative ease of the Lavender Lane of predestination. The ease with which the scurrilous, shady, satellite-sect of minor minds and characters that haunt the Royal Court speak-up for the Status-Quo. That such is done only by comparison to imagined standard 'bog-republics', yields the lie.
Far better for this United Kingdom to mature beyond Monarchy with the passing of this, perfectly affable, symbol of imagined worthiness. Let it go out on a high. To leave us, the citizenry, to struggle to discover one amongst us to lead and to embody our hopes for our future and the future of our children. And to rid ourselves of the current breed of nondescript crown-cowerers who fawn upon the one only to turn around and lord it over everybody else. - jezzz there is enough on the box [tv] now this,how much more can i stand before im commited to the loony bin.viva la republic.lol
- The Navy refused to perform a "diamond 9" over the pageant on the Thames, because the weather was dull.
- I saw a guy doing the press preview on Sky News last night saying that the BBC coverage was awful..that they truly lost the plot on this event. This was not a Sky person but an independent brought in to look at tomorrows papers. Im not a great one for saturation coverage of anything, because most of the time they have to make up items and news just to fill the time.
Turning to the crowd and saying..
"are you all having a good time!?"
is the normal one. A bog standard line that if ever there was one.
And so it went on with all the presenters showing their permo fixed-grin-looks for the occasion. I was away and missed most of it...whether that was fortunate or unfortunate I dont know.
It went down well around the world I understand..good for tourism, but perhaps the celebrations went on a day too long.
As for trimming down the BBC most definiteley yes. Even on foreign TV's there are more BBC stations than you can shake a stick at...most of them pointless to the greater world. Does that show a touch of lingering empire-ism I wonder. - Well, I didn't watch any of it, but I did notice that there was a lot of it about.
[No, no. There is no need to congratulate me for a difficult task well done.]
So, 'we' like the TV-Poll Tax. ('We' do like to see money flowing uphill.) But, apparently, the BBC should be much smaller and the money should go to certain other broadcasters, all of which must carry advertising.
We, (in the sense this time of, me also) are not the whole audience.
Worse still, if we were to focus on the ageing male, one natural phenomenon is that the voices of young women do tend to grate upon our ears.[This has not taken effect on me yet, but I am fairly sure that I have it coming.] So, could it be that the BBC employed mostly young women to do the commentary and that the BBC editorial policy was that they had to say something while the camera was upon them?
"the presenter was at times not scared to be quiet"
Some more Blatant-Barry-Bias.
On the one hand; I have read in the Telegraph, complaints that not enough detail was forthcoming about the craft on the Thames, (the local reportage of the fringe flotilla on our local canal was quite detailed;inner-tubes, paddling pools, inflatable camp-beds and a large cube of polystyrene...majestically plied their way...)
On the other hand: Silence on-the-air could come about for a variety of reasons:over exuberance, script-slippage, lack of information, too much information, boredom and stupidity. Having the clear intention of knocking the BBC makes choosing your particular 'spin' that much easier and we know that whether we call this particular example of B-B-B band-wagon-jumping or wave-crest-cruising the easy path is the one taken.
Barry, any sensible person in your situation over the past few days would have had the TV sound down and the (I guess) marvellous BBC commentary on the radio.
- Byzantine emperors would throw coins to the crowds on occasions of public show, Roman emperors would distribute grain to the masses of plebs.
They would always on such occasion seek the gratification of the poor among the civitas.
But this was the show of the pompous Establishment in London, unique in all the world in its nature of (self) glorification. - And wonderful it was, we can be proud of the last weekend.
- good grief what a site,im glad its all over and back to buisness.
- Just as a parting shot on the flotilla debacle- I'm sure that I heard one presenter say that HMS Belfast weighed in excess of 90,000 tons!-now that is super tanker size! She in fact weighs 11,000 tons...oh for the days of Raymond Baxter and informed competent commentating!
- You are dead right Richard, 91,000 tons is what I remember hearing. Pathetic, that would have made the cruiser about the same size as a Nimitz Class aircraft carrier, fully loaded with aircraft, ammo and fuel!!!!
- at 91000 tons,with the price of scrap should get a good deal of pound notes.it might help george get out of trouble.
- (Not so) funnily enough the name Rhodes Boyson floated across my mind this morning...how things change and yet so much stays the same.
"He was known for having unshakeable self-belief, and conspicuously Victorian politics and appearance. "Blunt, impatient, and imbued with astonishment at the failure of anyone in the world to see that the great unbarbered Boyson is right." (Hugo Young, the Guardian) "The Wackford Squeers of the Conservative party." (Colin Brown, the Independent) "He is able to voice the prejudices of the puritanical hard right with the assurance of a PhD. Old-fashioned educational elitist for the able, upward-aspiring working class." (Roth's Parliamentary Profiles.)" [tes.co.uk]
So...little or nothing new with Gove. The great Tory educational philosophy is still to fatten the pig by weighing over and over again.
Times-tables are another old saw, and as with pointing out a pile of shovels to a fellow and asking him to take his pick, fail miserably to equip the child with knowledge of how to think.
Removing calculators and upping the time spent on Number Theory would be good things, but would not make it easier for the powers-that-be to weigh anything and that is what Education is all about, apparently.
- I used to like Rhodes Boyson, a real gent. Your quotes in context of the sources demonstrates that he was generally right about things.
Anyway...
The usual tosh to excuse the educational establishment from low standards there Tom.
- When will these 'standards', of which you speak Barry, be met?
All plans can be followed and methods improved, but not all that is 'well-crafted' shall float.
It's not as if these aged "tried'n'trusted' methods produced anything worthwhile even back in the days of your old chum RB.
Learning by rote is the equivalent of giving a starving African a fish, (such even come with their own scales), he will be sustained only to lie in fear of the coming dawn.
Concepts, are the things that need to be realised through primary education, the very rod'n'line of future development.
Insisting on the 12x12 table without realising it's importance and significance is long gone, long gone as Libra, Solidus and Denarius (L,s,d), is sheer lunacy, but perfectly aligned with Tory thinking down through the years.
It is lunacy to focus the mind on the Grammar School proteges of yesteryear without taking into account the vast scope in heavy engineering there was for those who did not do so well at school, academically, which is now vanished.
It's not as if the education of years gone by has set the UK above the common hoard since and before the age of Boyson, far from it. - Tom - yes once again the old excuses for lowering standards.
At the end of the day children need to have some basic skills and a basis for future learning and employment and, however you like to dress it up, these skills have been undermined and subverted by the education establishment with their lower expectations. - Just by-the-by...
Conservatives have held the reins of Post-War Education so...
2 November 1951 to 16 October 1964, 20 June 1970 to 4 March 1974, 5 May 1979 to 2 May 1997 and 11 May 2010 till now. That's about 32 years out of the last 61 years.
Should I test you on these dates later in the year? - Correct in respect of governments - but that is different to the education establishment that is rotten to the core with left wing ideology and pc attitudes. One justified criticism of Mrs T is that she did nothing to correct that.
- i don't see the issue as one of political beliefs more to do with various education secretarys trying to make a name for themselves by changing something for no particular reason.
barry has missed out the most important planned change which is the teaching of languages from the age of 7, important in a global economy
i hadn't realised that science nowadays covers 3 subjects, all seperate when i was at school.
- Actually Howard - political beliefs have been a problem but not necessarily always in a party political way.
It was the left wing educational establishment that was central to the destruction of grammars, anti-competitiveness among children in education, levelling down with their anti-elite ideology, the introduction of trendy teaching methods, 'liberal' attitudes to discipline and so on. All of which has had a corrosive effect. - Progress, progress.
Barry, nothing stays the same. Improvements are happening all the time, many such improvements must have been the work of Conservative Governments over the years...accidents do happen.
Why with incessant improvement drives little is found to be satisfactory is because each new Education Supremo 'knows' only what is wrong and strives to make a splash by promoting something that sounds good, but while successive ES's can voice certainty in negative terms few if any can muster noises of sincerity over their 'own' plans. Little wonder then that most merely dust-off the rhetoric of previous post-holders.
The only power available to an ES is to ensure that what is in place must go, and all too often it is only the work of previous incumbents that is undone.
What you complain of as an apparently sustained mistake is in line with the advancing knowledge of child development, educational methodologies and the law. The law of the land or the law of the EU.
Children, by the very nature of childhood, are at a distinct disadvantage compared with we adults: they may never attain adulthood, but we each have at one time been a child and have therefore experienced formal education. It is folly for we adults then to throw away this advantage by thinking that no time has passed, no advances made, since we were of school age. Stop trying to turn the clock back. - I wish you wouldn't beat about the bush so much, Barry.
- You know me Peter....
- cetainly not one of your better blogs barry, started well the descended into a catalogue of abuse.
hardly likely to invite debate, your blog though. - But it is true Howard - I mean't every word of it.
The Labour Party is public enemy no 1 and Gordon Brown will go down in history as the worse ever Chancellor and Prime Minister. - Can't see any wrong-doing in Barry's blog post.
I only hope someday the present Government will think up something better than just spending cuts.
My view is, that the sovereign debt, which, according to Barry, is serviced with £120 million a day, should be equally divided among all residents in Britain. Quite clearly, some will be able to pay their way out of it, many others won't.
But those with a few hundred million pounds+ in private assets should cough up their part to the Treasury. Even those with tens of millions of £s private assets. - alex,with 900 million quid of unclaimed eu money we could reduce the amount you sugest.of course that figure i've qouted is only been uncorverd in the last week,who knows how much more there is lying around unclaimed.
- Let's say the government suddenly ordered the confiscation of £50bn of private assets. Of course these assets are not bank balances; if they were, their withdrawal would merely bring down a bank or two. No, they are in property, stocks and shares, and gilts. Liquidating such a volume of assets would trigger a market panic which would plunge our economy into a depression for a generation.
- Spot on Peter, I have explained that myself, less succinctly, to Alexander and anyone else who wants to steal the assets of private individuals to prop up irresponsible government borrowing.
- I've already explained many times that such a transfer would be a transfer, not a liquidation. Private assets of the super rich would be transferred to the Treasury, the dividends/profits they bring in would go to the Treasury, and the Treasury could sell these assets piece-meal to credit institutions in return for cash, over a period of time.
The assets themselves would NOT be liquidated.
- This would also bring down the sovereign debt.
But hey, let's just all carry on calling it theft, and continue being punished by bailiffs, by unemployment, bankruptcy, and told "we're all in this together".
Even then, there is a sovereign debt, it needs paying, and the super rich are responsible for doing their part in paying it, as they have masses of private assets.
Now let's see if Barry can again change a transfer of assets into a liquidation of assets, totally changing the wording and the consequences that would derive from it. - Alexander
Theft is theft and you would have exactly the consequences Peter refers to.
Pensioners would be thrust into poverty as their annuities dry up when pension companies go bust. Overseas investment would dry up as investors in the Far East and the USA among other places decide not to risk their money being stolen by an untrustworthy UK government. Businesses would go bust as their expansion plans collapse through lack of funding. The economy would go into meltdown and we would soon have 40-50% unemployment driving us down to the level of a third world country. Face the facts of the real world and get away from the student debating society world in which their are no consequences. - Barry,
the topic needs a less chaotic and more calm atmosphere to discuss it.
I see the points you make, but my points are also thought out.
Pension funds, to give one example, would not be liquidated. I haven't mentioned pension funds, in fact.
Not all individual private assets amounting to 10s of millions or 100s of millions of pounds are pension funds.
The idea of transferring to the Treasury (T), a part of the private assets that are held in huge amounts by individual people, to be then either administered by the T, or gradually sold to credit institutions in return for cash (no hectic sell-off), needs specifying, it is not a one-off ill-thought out idea, but something that would take months of working on by economic experts.
This is not some wild revolutionary scheme of theft as you seem to be pointing out.
As for your catastrophic scenario, which you claim would result, this has already set in, and is steadily increasing, in Britain, and even more visually in Spain, Greece and many other countries.
Of-course we can just sit down and wait for a revolution to break out somewhere in the world, or for riots to take part somewhere in Europe, or quietly look the other way as millions of people in Britain, and tens of millions more in Europe, fade away into ever-worsening private debt, are home-evicted, or join the dole-queue...
However, your stance of sheer unavailability to even consider a fraction of my proposal (for example, the super-rich pay even 1% of their surplus assets to the T) reminds me of King Louis the XVI's stance when he flatly refused the advice of successive finance ministers to tax the aristocracy.
The aristocracy in France held private assets that were actually fractional in comparison to the tens, or hundreds of millions of pounds of private assets held by the super rich of today.
In other words, what the super-rich of today pay on tax in relation to their private assets, is peanuts!
I am considering giving you the title of Louis XVI! Will you accept? - Alexander.... You never fail to amaze me. You issue your economic prescriptions without any idea about economic interaction at all. You ignore plain facts and the truth because it does not fit your cosy idea of how things should be. It is a waste of time trying to explain to you.
Nutty and criminal ideas like yours do not deserve to even be discussed seriously. - Barry, I have decided not to comment on your blog any more!
- Insomnium Desperandum eSt
I've got a painful nagging feeling
one that simply will not go away
to cure this ache I'm daily dealing
and each evening earnestly I pray
I pray to dull this constant keening
(that is the bane of all we on the right)
how to screw the public, without seeming
to gleeful-gloat and smirk,(as well we might)
It's said the poor will e'er be with us
and I'm sure poverty is here to stay
but, how to make it appear as 'bonus'
how then to turn night-time into day
(Then, of a sudden solution came
like a flash of blinding light
to reform struggle into game
would it work, this time it might)
"Come ye peasants, do not worry
you have never had it oh so good
come feel the warmth from this Tory
come dine on platitudes for food...
I have downsized expectations
re-weighed the pig to make it fat
ushered-in a new era of relations
between the terrier and the rat
I have redefined what's woeful
you're no longer poor, but keen
no longer desperate, but hopeful
full of potential. Know what I mean?"
[Sure, the very few have plenty
but, you know they envy you
all you have they covet greatly
they know you've more than is your due
So, be cheery. Pauper, you
you have riches unimagined
by the uber-opulent few
You have riches, unimagined.
Enjoy contentment, do.]
- I wonder what else there might be for these 'investors' to invest in, if not the debt-stricken?
-Other, more safe, economies?
How strong could any un- or less- affected economy be with their export markets dwindling because of lack of investment elsewhere?
-Play FTSE: Dow Jones Vs NASDAQ on MICEX turf?
Could there be any higher expectation of growth in either the Muti-national or Hi-Tec sectors?
With these high-interest borrowings, the interest will accrue as more debt, which will lead to more borrowing at even higher rates, which in turn will not be paid but tend only to increase indebtedness.
As I said long ago, while discussing games of Whist with my Gran, expectations in the financial sphere must be cut and drastically cut. The fly in this salve may well be the dominance of the Dollar by China, but all of the above applies to China also. China can sit and hug it's swollen coffers, with no market to spend/invest in. Or China can swallow hard and lead a dressing-down-fest and spend way over the odds for their imports.
I'm sure there is another way to redistribute the 'counters' around the table and begin anew, but not for the small minded, empty-trousered Politicos we have at present. - I see that today Spanish Bonds have been trading into the danger zone of over 7%, something that is not sustainable. If they do not fall back soon or worsen then that is where the next crisis will hit.
Tom - investors in sovereign debt have a very specific need. They need known low risk returns over a long period of time combined with a very low capital risk. UK annuity rates are priced using 15 year gilt rates for instance. The reason is simply so they can pay the guaranteed pensions to annuity holders and cannot take risks over that.
Equities are not an appropriate underpinning for that, though great for long term growth or for variable income generation. In the same way Sovereigns are not a good bet for long term growth. Why you put the word investors into brackets I really do not know.
At the end of the day the markets will determine the rate and even whether a particular government is a good bet at that given rate. Governments are the architects of their own problems through their fiscal irresponsibility. - While I too am sure that our elected representatives must carry the can. The last Government, with the support and envious regard of the 'loyal' opposition in Parliament, merely played 'John' to the financial whiz-kid prostitutes (with their alluring ways and attractive, if oversold wares). The New Labour Government's irresponsibility was in believing the Siren call of these self-same Market mover'n'shakers that you still are in awe of Barry. Little did Gordon know just Moody they could be and how Poor their Standards.
At the end of the day, it is Democratic Governments that rule the Global Roost. - So Tom - what role did the 'market movers and shakers' have in persuading Brown to increase public spending and adding to the deficit in the growth phase of the economy? None whatsoever.
Brown it was, who decided to introduce the tri-partied system as well and it was he who set the inflation brief for the Bank of England. Indeed it was he who told the banks to go out and take risks. Not every bank did what he said, thankfully, though they were damaged by those that did.
You cannot blame the financial sector for the government's mistakes - they are quite specific and can be listed.
In fact the financial service industry was always warning him he was wrong, over gold sales, over pension reform, over taxation of pension funds - we are now all living with the consequences of Brown ignoring good advice.
So, no Tom - The Labour government trod its own path to disaster. - That you are able to declare that you could list the failings of the New Labour government, is news to no one.
Pointing-up the various instances of bleating over peripheral issues does little by way of attending to the question of the parcelling of bad debts as sound investments, and the re- and re-re-parcelling of same.
GB did as GO does; tells the financial sector what it wishes to hear at each and every Mansion House Dinner.
The fact that with billions of pounds created and gifted to the banks there is yet no sign of lending, despite repeated 'instruction' from GO to do just that, indicates to me that it the change of personnel at the top of the Banks more than the change in the colour of the Government that has brought maturity and sense to the industry.
If it is wrong to spend during periods of growth and wrong to spend during a downturn...what is money for?
Certainly, GB was signing cheques that could only rightly be cashed when the promised returns from the boom came home, but is this not exactly what the insurance and pension 'industries' do. Is not the whole financial sector built upon the promise that things CAN ONLY get better?
P.S.
IDS, is wasting his and our time. Just adopt the Gini Coefficient and have done with it. - Tom - you should read my blogs more carefully and catch up on your Keynes. You do work hard there to try to blame the City, but, you see, Mrs T and even John Major felt no need and had no pressure to reduce the probity requirements on the banks and certainly felt no need to tell them to take risks.
Now I am not a Keynseyan, I prefer Friedman and Hayek myself
But lets look at what Friedman, Labour's favourite economist said.
The economy, as well all know (except Gordon Brown) always works in cycles of growth and contraction.
During period of contraction Keynes advocated continued government spending, allowing a deficit to develop and debt to build. This indeed is what Clark allowed during the early 1990's recession.
He also said that during the growth phase you balance the current account and repay the debt built up in the previous downturn.
Brown ignored the latter, instead of balancing the current account he went on a spending binge increasing the deficit and building more debt. By 2005 we had a structural deficit, that is a deficit that cannot be 'closed' in time for the next contraction phase without spending cuts. Indeed, he did not even try to close it but kept up his binge spending stupidly claiming he had banned boom and bust.
Consequently we started the downturn in 2007 already with a deficit and borrowing far too high and in an appalling state to face a downturn. Of course Brown still did nothing about that deficit and kept on increasing it and piling up even more debt.
That placed the UK economy in an appalling position that requires the deficit to be addressed now, not later - we just cannot afford to carry on with it and it must be cut.
So because the delusional Brown kept on spending and ignored the part of Keynes economic theory that did not suit him we are in the position we are in.
I put your question back to you the other way: if you are not going to balance the budget during the growth phase, when would you balance the budget? - Sorry - a mistype there below of Freidman where I meant Keynes in the third para as 'Labour's favourite economist'...
- I agree with you on the high tax rate of 45 pence coming down to a fairer 40 pence. As an aside Greece will default in two weeks time.
When they do there are two French banks and one German which will fall. Then watch France seek a bailout. It's all happening just as I predicted.
The trouble is that the UK is totally unprepared for what is set to happen. Things are going to get alot worse very soon. - For...
"How dare the French elect anybody or anything that does not suit the wealthy or their lusts!"
Read...
Don't you dare elect anybody other than a Conservative!
"Potentially" If we were to reduce the tax take on the rich to near zero, why our entire Island Nation could become one big shiny yacht.
The streets would no longer by laid with Tarmac but with seasoned Rain Forest hard woods, all windows would be Port-Holes (just as well as none would feel able to look another square in the face?), the populace would be crew. The sexy pretty ones out on deck, the rest...like the fictional Morlocks...deep underground feeding off the promise of 'potential' crumbs dropping down through the sealed and varnished teak deck boards.
Life would be hard for most of us, but...just think of the spectacle of the 'Lovely-Ones' basking naked and frolicking joyously on the Sun-Deck high above us.
What wouldn't any of us give to make such 'potential' splendour a reality?
Vote Conservative and find out? - They have to get worse before they can get better. The sooner it happens the better as well because right now this long drawn-out crisis is sucking the life from our economy, which is nothing to what it is doing to the weak Eurozone countries. I have to disagree that the UK are unprepared, contingency provisions have been made but whether they are enough is an open question. The big question is will it all collapse in a mess or will it be a managed decoupling and default.
- That is absurd Tom.
I am quite happy for the French to vote in some economic nincompoop who we can take advantage of and benefit from the wealthy French who come here.
If only we could reduce all our taxes to zero.... Sadly that is not possible and simply not practical. Taxes should be for one purpose only, to raise the money needed by the government and not for any other purpose and, in addition, the government should show restraint in its spending and not get so big that it hinders the economy. - don't actually need to lower the top tax rate to encourage the french to move here, there is a swathe of west london known as "the valley of the frogs", french newspaper and radio station in situ.
they moved to london, mostly from paris, because they prefer the lifestyle in the u.k.
the influx of more will happen irespective of what tax rates are in other european countries. - Howard - it is not just about attracting the French, it is also about raising more revenue for HMRC. Lower top rates will increase revenue and will not just help get more rich French or any other tax-oppressed nationality to move here.
- tax is not a big issue with the french incomers barry, your chart proves this.
the reason they come is two fold, most are young and ambitious
and london is attractive to them when measured against the more regulated french businesses.
secondly we are much more egalitarian socially, in france the school, university you go to matters as to where you are in society. - Howard - I did refer to cultural matters but regardless of that the tax rates in the table are current rates and this is about what will happen when the French government impose their suicidal 75% rate.
- Because of the Hellfire Corner Weekend I will not have a chance to update this until some point on Monday.
- The UK's education system - a prime example of cultural Marxism if there ever was one.
After education there's a whole host of other calamities to be repaired starting with Cameron's obsession with climate change. Get that one out of the way and we are well on our way to real growth. Without doing so whatever Gove does is meaningless.
The trouble is that Cameron is so gaffe prone that he no longer commands any semblance of authority in the same way that Gordon Brown lost his when he became Prime minister.
Time for a change of leadership. - "dropping the absurd 'Balls' targets"
but,
working to get the UK up the international tables?
- Tom: The Balls targets are not relevant to that because they related to the GCSEs and it is the quality of these exams that is the problem.
- First on my list would be the absolute right NOT to be bundled-in with the common horde just to make a cheap political point, vis...
"..what the British people want, with three out of four people citing the Human Rights Act as a charter for crooks and cheats in a recent You Gov poll."
One of the comments has it about right...A list of the things a Government/State CANNOT do!
Still...I suppose these Tories of Kent must prioritise getting their name in the press and on the internet etc.
I wonder if any of the new (Conservative) homeless and jobless in Kent will be hanging on CE's or LS's or Sir RG's every word come the next election, or maybe they wont (be permitted to) vote at all? - [Patience? Wots that?]
The Markets, the MARKETS, the bloody Markets!!!
As I keep 'informing' you...
The only market is...
The High Street, the HIGH-STREET, the bloody High Street!!!
If nobody can spend money nobody can make money. - The euro dream will survive. They will do their utmost to keep it alive. Sorry to disappoint but it will, unfortunately, go from strength to strength. Cameron isn't helping by his insistence on showing his fullest support for the regime. As I've said before, he is a true europhile no matter what he tells his public.
- Tom - the markets are those organisation who the governments need to borrow from that's who.
That includes those that need to secure your income for when you retire.
I am sure you would not want you money blown and lost to defaulting irresponsible borrowing spendthrift governments. - How responsible is it to demand swinging interest payments from the very source of past, present and future income?
Where might the logic be in a farmer withholding seed from the field unless the field promise greater yields come the harvest?
What pension scheme pays out to somebody who cannot make their payments through dis-employment?
If one were to adversely effect the income of one's chauffeur in such a fashion as to lessen his ability to repay one a sum one has levied upon him for some minor road accident that one holds one's chauffeur responsible for [one that one's insurance has covered, but, dash-it-all, has led to an increase in one's premium] and then frequently shove one's 'invoice' in his face while he is conveying one about one's business one is liable to come a cropper, isn't one? - Tom - you do not make much sense at all.
If you were running a £billion pension fund and wanting to secure guaranteed benefits for pensioners then you would want to make sure that you factor in the costs of potential default in what interest rates you demand. You would be failing in your duty of care if you did not do so.
As for the third line, that means nothing at all, because you clearly have no idea how these things work. - Interesting to see that Cameron has carried out his orders from Brussels to deny the UK a referendum to the letter. An obedient servant to Europe is our Dave.
- Another opportunity for the use of the 'World Famous' Austin's, "Permutative Referendum Initiative". More commonly known as The 'Tic-Tac-Toe' method. Where three equally weighted options are proposed as to how to proceed.
I charge a nominal fee only.
What a pity it is that, "Displacement Activity." has already been taken. - P.S.
[re:Gove's initiative to supply each Primary School with a copy of the King James Bible]
I have a decent copy of this tome and I enjoy the English language within it, but there is this from a letter in today's Guardian, regarding the version sent out by Gove...
"...it is in archaic spelling, font and punctuation [too], so "Lot's incest" becomes "Lots inceft" (no apostrophe). I found a quotation from "Ecclefiafticus" that runs thus: "Draw neere vnto me you vnlearned, and dwell in the house of learning.""
What an utterly stupid thing to do, to send out this version.
Wot a plonker! - Ah now you cannot take the Daily EXpress seriously. It goes for overwrought jingoism like nothing or nobody else, always designed to appeal to base emotions..nasty foreigners, nasty immigrants, all that usual sort of thing.
Former Cabinet Minister of doubtful wisdom and judgement has hit the airwaves today with this very topic. Liam Fox I speak of. Making a speech, much heralded beforehand, sadly the 24 hour news channels bought into this pre speech ballyhoo, covering it in toooo large a way.
I ask myself if it was really actually a bid for leadership because he said nothing new, nothing new at all, nothing that a chap or chappess doesnt hear on the BBCs Question Time every week...so why all the pre speech hype. Why the big build up beforehand.
In his question and answer session after the speech the whole thing sounded very thin. Talk of trading with the Far East, Canada, and America and so on, as if nobody thought of that one before. Its in every UKIP speech.
This was either a bid for leadership, gawd help us, or a bid to scupper the future UKIP vote. Otherwise I cant see the reason for the big splash on this this morning...as it contained nothing new in actuelle. - seemed a lot of ballyhoo over very little and gave ammunition to nigel farage who delighted in pointing out that sometime in the future, very probably, fullness of time etc meant very little.
ukip will have a few more move over from the blues. - That is an old front page, resurrected for the message it gives not because of any relation to the latest developments PaulB.
A referendum is on the way - events will ensure it. - beaware of apathy and excuses for not giving people one.
but barry please waffle on you make me larf. - Dream on Barry there is no way this administration is going to repeal this law. It's not that they don't want to it's just that they can't be bothered by it. It doesn't affect them in any way, shape or form. Cameron doesn't give a toss about it.
Anyhow I suggest that if you want to get cross about the law in this country why don't you concern yourself with laws to ban dangerous dogs. Every day people are harmed by these beasts but the government doesn't give a damn about it. Even when children are mauled and then die or lose half their face there is absolutely no response from anyone in power.
This section five nonsense is merely a middle class issue. Important legislation is being ignored.
As another example of Cameron's stance on things it's likely that the european ecall system will be adopted in the UK. Of course Cameron will roll over and adopt the scheme being the good little euro-poodle he is.
God help us from those who think they can save us. - never a good law as we all have different ideas of what is offensive.
for instance the old northern comics like les dawson and others were actually taking the rise out of themselves with their references to their wives/mothers in law and could never be called offensive.
i once saw the late sir bernard manning in "concert" in harlow, the billing and all promotional material clearly stated not to buy a ticket if you are likely to be offended. a few people made a point of walking out during the performance to make a point!!
i have found a few comics offensive in recent times with references to handicapped children, the line has to be drawn somewhere. - Nothing wrong with eCall- as long as it isn't compulsory.
- Have no worries there Peter, it will be compulsory. Where Europe leads we blindly follow.
- Philip - if what you are saying was true we would not have had any Maastricht opt-outs and would be members of the Euro.
- Those "opt-outs" have done us all a fat lot of good. Most of our legislation comes from Brussels. From the treaty of Rome, the single European act and now the Lisbon treaty we are relegated to parish status no matter how much influence people think.
In essence we have very little control over laws. We go through the motions of talking through legislation in both houses but in the end most eu law ends up here. The only difference is that it seems that we enforce this law more stringently than many other eu countries.
Take a look behind any new laws set to be introduced in the UK and you will find most will have been dreamed up in Brussels.
The ironic thing is that really important legislation, the banning of dangerous dogs, appears not to figure to highly on the agenda.
Of course once our masters decide that they are sick of the sight of humans being attacked then expect something to be done over here. Until then just accept the fact that essentially we have very little power. - Philip - nevertheless it showed the nonsense of your claim that the UK follows where the EU leads. It would be far worse if we were part of the Euro and did not have those opt-outs.
I do not disagree that nevertheless the EU directs far too many of our laws, far too many laws full stop in fact and we need out of this and to get back our sovereignty. - So...an election is on the cards?
His minority Government could have lasted just as long as any other dream, but as with most dreams they 'happen' just before you wake up.
The race is on...Goal or Gaol? - No, there is not a general election on the cards. This is in respect of Peter Bone's comments to Andrew Neil over how untrustworthy the LibDems are. Re-read what I said Tom - the next general election will be in 2015.
- i suspect barry is right on this one, when the lib/lab pact broke up in the past the electorate then gave a clear mandate to the reds under the "let's give them a proper chance" way of thinking.
too late now to do anything now the regime has to survive until 2015 when it looks increasingly likely that the two eds will cruise to victory because of the pain endured under dave and george. - An unusual picture above in that Clegg is almost always sitting to the left of the prime minister in the House ( to the PMs right in other words). Very hard to know if things would have been better or worse without the Libdems. Of course without raking over dismal old coals, they the Libdems helped the Tories secure new and unpopular changes such as on the tuition fee issue. Right from the off the Libdems were flip flopping all over the place in deeply unpopular mode. On various issues and on their so-called core values they capitulated spectacularly, they did this on issues where they had clearly promised the opposite while campaigning.
It destroyed their credibility in very quick time..I dont think they have had the influence in quite the same way since some of their early flip flop fiascos. Clegg is symbolic of a political dead man walking. Busying himself more recently on issues like Reform of the Lords , the great sleep-walking public care not a jot for Lords reform.
The Libdem unpopularity in a bizarre way made the Teflon Tories even more popular, as joe public blamed the Libdems for everything. The Conservatives soared in the opinion polls.
Until recently.
Recent times has seen the Conservatives plummet in the same polls...without any help from the Libdems. Fuel tax shambles, jerrican shambles, pasty tax shambles, Rebekah Brooks shambles, Andy Coulsen shambles, more budget u-turns by the swivelling Osborne than from any other chancellor in history...all add up to a big blue stain on the once white hankerchief.
Once Ed Miliband was seen as a no - hoper, a bit of a joke perhaps. But he is clean and fresh... like a new bathroom product on the supermarket shelf..all fresh and fragrant and squeeky clean, no cosy weekend dinners with Rebekah to blight his perception, no Murdoch shenanigans in darkened corridors either.
The public like squeeky clean even though sometimes they pretend they dont.
- Oh, Lordy, Lordy. I sometimes forget Barry, that you are preaching to the faithful, and not out to make any telling points.
How sad they (the faithful) must be to hear and rehear the same old 'what if' or 'if only' stuff.
David Davis:
Voted;-
- moderately against a fully elected HoL, moderately for the retention of hereditary peers in the HoL.
-strongly for the Iraq war and for an investigation into it.
-strongly for increased VAT
-strongly against;hunting ban & foundation hospitals
-for & against; laws to stop climate change, encouraging occupational pensions
-has never; on matters related to a more transparent Parliament.
What's not to like...is balanced by what there is...
On the plus side. Promoting DD to the top post, apart from the re-emergence of the voluminous - yet taut t-shirts, the Party Stationary can stay the same. Swapping 'Dave' for 'Dave'...whose to know?
- the real dave is the blues vote winner, david davis is an electoral liability.
the best they could have expected with the latter as leader would have been the same cobbled together coalition.great appeal to the party faithful but not the more middle of the road, slightly undecided public. - So the single institution that confers the status of Citizen on we who would otherwise remain merely subjects of the crown is somehow less democratic than the Conservatives wish?
All this while the Tory leader of Lewes, a council that already operates under the so called, "strong leader model", has found a way around the tiresome democratic falderal of accountability to councillors and voters.
He has established a 'star-chamber' with the comic-book title of the Nexus Board which has but two permanent members;himself and the chief executive along with the odd officer - on a need to know basis. The decisions of these private and un-minuted meetings are presented to the cabinet as done deals.
Now there is the Conservative notion of democracy in action. - ...and upon and within said DVDs there is bound to be a stern warning about 'piracy'.
Is there not still an ongoing kerfuffle* about up-loading songs from CDs you have purchased to your pc/iplayer etc.?
*
Origin of KERFUFFLE
alteration of carfuffle, from Scots car- (probably from Scottish Gaelic cearr wrong, awkward) + fuffle to become disheveled
First Known Use: 1946
From: .merriam-webster.com - Tom - a very different matter. For one thing those who spend a lot of time and money in producing CDs and DVDs deserve to be paid for the privilege otherwise there will be no music or film industry.
Also I am saying that there should not be any brand protection or that the sponsors should not have any privileges, the complaint is that it is going too far, beyond common sense. Indeed it has been said that these restrictions are far worse than previous games. - Barry, what about the recordings of musicians who themselves were not well paid for their product and are now dead, why should the mere reproduction of such music be lumped-in with the more recent stuff?
...just because they can! - There is a time bar on this I understand but that is nothing to do with the blog.
- Apparently if a garden centre plants a floral display in the form of the Olympic rings they consider it as 'ambush marketing' and will prosecute or demand sponsorship money. Likewise a pub poster saying: 'Watch the Olympics here'. CAMRA's annual Great British Beer Festival at Olympia (ha!) can't use the phrase 'London 2012'. Now that IS an event worth going to London for.
- Theresa May may have to go over the Olympic security debacle and now the strike action by border agency staff.
- i very much doubt it peter, every prime minister needs someone to make them look good, ms may fits the bill nicely.
tony blair was very shrewd in having john prescott as his deputy. - Agreed!
- LOL Howard, Cleggy didn't read the job description, obviously!
- Amen to that Barry, but look at all the checks and balances and strings attached to recent enabling legislation, like the Ports Act 1991. hopefully the Public Bodies Act 2011 will help, once the government has the confidence (and balls) to use it.
- You latest blog makes no sense whatsoever Barry.
- What makes no sense Philip? Is it by any chance that you do not know what supply side reforms are?
I have explained these many times:
Chopping the burden on businesses such as taxes and red tape for instance. This will need more public spending cuts because, as I said, Osborne has only been cutting the minimum he needs for the markets and that now may not be enough for even that thanks to the Eurozone problems. - i saw that article this morning and was about to start a thread with the link until i saw it on here.
a lot of attention is on spain but the same problem of regions going to government with a begging bowl is happening in italy with less publicity.
sicily is in dire straits but their record of being a drain on the rest of italy means any bail out would go down badly.
unlike the spanish regions sicily is cut off from italy by sea making it appear to be another country. - I'm well aware about the supply side reforms Barry but you must be living in cloud cuckoo land if you think that Cameron and Osbourne is about to heed your advice. Remember the EU?
Cameron is an avowed europhile and will not dare to upset his masters in Brussels. Besides, who on Earth are we going to sell whatever we produce here in the UK to? Europe as we know it will be no more very soon and we are not allowed to enter into new trade deals with non-eu nations because of the various treaties we signed up to over the past few years - Philip - first of all Cameron is doing what he thinks he should for both diplomatic and coalition reasons. He is not a Europhile except on the most superficial level. I do think though that he is wrong in this and needs to be a lot tougher and cannier in his EU dealings.
As for exports, you are behind - our exports to the rest of the world have increased and last year and for the first time in decades we exported more there than to the EU.
Osborne may not do what I want, at least while in coalition, but that does not mean that I and others from the right should not point out what he should do. The economically ignorant from the left are always spouting their mouths off after all. - My usual Wednesday blog change will not happen until Thursday as I am not going to be able to get on-line tomorrow at least until the afternoon, perhaps not to the following morning.
- Barry I'm not behind the times. Our exports to the rest of the world have always been higher but the Rotterdam effect has made it appear the exact opposite.
It's not only the left who are economically ignorant - you only have to look at the tory party to see that.
- That does not counter the point that our exports to the rest of the world have grown to a higher level than to the EU on a like for like measurement.
- Well judging by the latest gdp figures it seems that Cameron's green growth agenda is working wonders.
Perhaps it's time for plan Z - Further to above, Alistair Heath of City AM says:
"We need far more radical policies to liberate the supply-side of Britain’s economy and to make it more profitable and safer for firms to hire and invest. Gordon Brown and his economic eminence grise Balls relied far too much on monetary policy when they were in power: they assumed that as long as interest rates were low and the consumer price index measure of inflation wasn’t rising too much, all would be well. Osborne is also relying too heavily on monetary policy, albeit in a much more activist way: he puts far too much faith in quantitative easing and credit easing to kick-start growth."
There are many people who know what is needed and I am sure George Osborne does too... But can he be strong enough to stand up to the Libdems, after all he gave in to Davey over energy subsidies.... - So...the Eurozone crisis is beyond our scope of effectiveness. Therefore all 'promised' monies to; the IMF, the EU and to our friends of the Emerald Isle, must be 'clawed back'.
"An expanding private sector is the key to economic growth"
I trust this in no way refers to the encroaching 'privatisation' in Education, Policing, the Courts and the NHS etc. etc. Swapping the outlay of money direct to a workforce for the outlay of yet more money to the same workforce via some fly-by-night, off-shore-registered, profit & bonus driven entity would, I am sure all can agree, be sheer folly. For surely, if there is to be any benefit in so doing one must countenance an immense reduction in 'expected' outcomes? [far less 'bang-for-our-buck' in all affected areas] Further. Such would be a way to return to the same old fallacies of relying on on-paper-profits rather than real increases in production. - Barry
you write that "It is important to point out that this was a professional briefing and not a political one, a very important distinction" but then negate that with the demand that Osborne be replaced by a Conservative.
This exposes your faux objectivity and also highlights the delusion that many right wingers have that we have a Conservative government now. The Conservatives could not win in the last election and, on the basis of their track record in coalition, will not win in the next election either. - Mark - I also make clear where that professional briefing ended and my comments started, I said ""So where does the UK stand in all this and it is here where I turn away from the briefing.""
Mark - we do not have a Conservative government, as I have said many times. If we did Osborne would be free to do what is needed and if he did not then we would be able to see exactly where the buck stops. Yes, we did not win outright and the coalition is a pale imitation of the strong government we need at a time of economic crisis. The public get the government they deserve, as they say, and their failure to make a clear choice is what is now a problem. None of this is an excuse, Osborne should face down the LibDems and call their bluff and if it means an end to the coalition then so be it, we will then have it made clear exactly who has been a block to the supply side reforms we need.
Tom. I really do not know what you are trying to say. I know where you are coming from though and your anti-business attitudes are the way to entrench economic failure and poverty. - To be fair Mark (and this hurts me more than it does you) there is a water-shed above, between the financial and the political.
However, if we are to tailor our suit to fit out cloth. Must we not then contemplate parting with our cherished possessions, our art-works and our silverware?
Must we not face facts and say farewell to our low-taxation, lax-taxation habits?
How else can a balance be struck between income and outlay when we contemplate reducing the individual costs of unemployment while increasing the numbers of individuals unemployed? This can only lead to a crumb-hungry and utterly demotivated workforce while not increasing our domestic buying power one iota.
All such nonsense that we 'hear' from Barry, and those with whom he is in agreement, is entirely off-topic - as far as actual production is concerned. Such people are but the lianas and bromeliads of the economic jungle, the hangers-on and livers-off of the mighty Teaks and Mahogany of real wealth creation.
One may as well husband our 'crops' for the sole benefit of the locust.
We must get real. Be true to our own. Nurture our sole national asset, our population. Cast aside these Crystal-gazers and their baubles. Rebuild our world by realising a Democracy and march on, with heads held high, into our new tomorrow. And not back to where and when these prognosticators were supreme. We well know the road ahead from that re-beginning shall lead only to where we are now. - Barry I am surprised at you. It was during Reagan's presidency that the US government moved from being a net creditor to a net debtor; Reagan borrowed a trillion dollars and p155ed most of it up against the wall.
- Barry you need to look closer to home to see useless politicians. Clegg, Milliband and Cameron. Weirdos united.
Obsessed by climate change which means that they all object to a third runway, support HS2, think that green jobs will save our economy and hundreds of other policies hamstrung by their religious fervour.
In fact I'd include the rabble lobby fodder who make up the numbers in the house of commons, let alone the house of Lords.
You're trying to distract our attention to the fact that we are saddled with a bunch of morons and yet people still insist that we use our vote at election time.
Seems to me a waste of a good half hour to me. - ......Speaking of which Anthony Watts who runs the wattsupwiththat website has just published a paper following years of research into land surface temperature monitoring stations all over North America.
He has methods recognised by meteorologists worldwide in his quest and has concluded that the past "warming" over the past few decades has been adjusted by the warmist lobby by a factor of two.
It's quite scandalous and has immense ramifications for all, especially politicians, who still follow the warmist religion.
Of course Cameron and his ilk are so far gone with this that it just might be a U-turn too far - ie. a whole dozen eggs on their faces. - Peter - yes but he also restored America's pride after the Vietnam debacle and the Iran calamity, while establishing the conditions for winning the Cold War. He did indeed expand borrowing far too much with his 'Reaganomics' but the plusses outweighed the negatives enough to make him a great President.
Philip. As always you overstate your case based on the environment issue. I would not count Cameron as a 'great' and Cleggy and Miliminor are at best third rate, but I do believe that the pool of talent from which Cameron emerged is far better than that from which Romney was selected. David Davis for one has impressed me more and more since he lost the leadership election. The are a few more potentially great PMs on the Conservative benches too. - What an idiot this Dyson fellow must be. [or the editing of his words in that rag are ill thought out]
"Jump start business."?
What a plonker. He runs off to the far-east and is now 'pissing into the tent', yea he knows what's what.
"it may or may not"
No!
It's July and nearly not.
I've got a "garden hose" innovation he can have gratis...a bigger bore. Or perhaps he has already cornered that market. - Tom - he manufactures in the Far East but all his R&D is here in the UK and he employs more people here in the UK doing that than he did when manufacturing here. His was a sensible commercial decision to move his manufacturing when you look at both his suppliers and international customer profiles. It also remains a UK company with its profits taxed here.
Yes, there is a little hyperbole in the headline but that is pretty much the norm for journalism. What he says is important though and to dismiss a successful businessman like him, as you have done, is wrong. - "... he can be a bit too socially 'liberal'. To be fair though, that is something needed for the role of being the mayor of a cosmopolitan city..."
There we have it. "Liberal" is a 'foreign' concept. For...
" 'cosmopolitan'
adjective
Definition: 3. without local, provincial, or national prejudices; 4. at home with or in different countries and cultures;
Synonyms: worldly, sophisticated, global, universal, cultivated...
Antonyms: finite, limited, bounded, insular, rustic, parochial, biased, bigoted, narrow-minded."
[from: vocabulary.com]
The very antithesis of Conservative, then?
Dyson:
It is that, for a " successful businessman like him" to have his musings promulgated through the Daily Mail and to have such quaintly quoted in the furtherance of a disastrous uber-Conservative economic policy, that is wrong.
From Peston of the BBC...
"Here are the good things about Dyson.
Its success means an increase in high-skilled employment in Britain: last year it hired 200 engineers, to take its roster of engineers at Malmesbury in Wiltshire to 550; and its target is 700 engineers by the end of 2011.
Those graduating in engineering join Dyson with a starting salary of £25,200 and a joining bonus of up to £3000 - which is a decent living from the off, and is an incentive for those currently studying engineering or a science degree to consider applying those skills in British industry, rather than going straight into a hedge fund.
Also Dyson paid £50m of taxes to the British exchequer and £4m to charity....
...In these boom years for the British economy - which we know were built on dangerously unsafe foundations - manufacturers' share of British GDP may have shrunk and employment in British manufacturing may have dwindled. But absolute sales and profits of British manufacturers rose.
So here is the question. As we rebalance our economy from one fuelled less by debt, from one less reliant on financial services, from one less dependent on consumption and more geared to towards investment and exports, where will the jobs come for those of our young people who will never be boffins, or best-selling authors, or premier-league footballers?
Who is going to deny that it would be great to have more Dysons, Arms, GlaxoSmithKlines and so on. But if the great retailing bonanza is over, does the UK also need a few more factories? "
None of your 'easy-sack' and 'cheap-labour' there Barry. - It is a global economy Tom. If we in this country choose to make ourselves less and less internationally competitive through high taxation and laying down too many rules and red tape then that is our fault.
I recommend what is now an old book but it remains valid in what it says, Free to Choose by Milton Friedman. - It is a Global fiasco, Barry. Economies are entirely National. The present government's push to make 'economies' regional is proof only that wrong can be done on the micro as well as the macro scale.
The sophistry of 'Global Economy' is at the heart of our present problems. When 'economy' is everywhere it is nowhere. Fewer and fewer Nations are with you on your pointless journey. Your drive to bring the third-world to these shores is doomed to failure, as I am sure you know. You just intend the failure to be occasioned by any other than you.
'Hoovers' might be cheaper to make in the developing world, but they can only be marketed in the developed world. Your insistence on lowering wages and increasing job-insecurity will only bring back the carpet-beater. - Tom - I am not insisting on lowering wages, on the contrary I want them increased but it can only be done in the context of the market and a successful economy. It is that we need to get.
We also have to deal with the economy as it is and that is global. You cannot wish it away and you cannot simply change it to what you want. Idealism and protectionism will not help anyone as has been shown over the decades, it does not work and is the road to disaster.
The problems we have now are brought about by excessive tax and spend by many governments, including ours, combined with the laying down of rules and red tape that make businesses less competitive globally. Government is the big problem here. - Barry, can you just remind me under which government GCSEs were introduced? I seem to have forgotten, silly me. If only I had O-levels and not GCSEs, I would surely remember.
Certain people from the educational establishment also 'screamed like scalded cats' at the introduction of the GCSE.
So perhaps this screaming is not from prospect of teachers having to get children to pass exams, but merely the standard reaction to yet another knee jerk policy created by someone that really doesn't understand education and just uses it as a political football. - Yes, DT, it was in the 80's under Mrs T and that mistake needs correcting as you well know.
Mistakes were made even under Mrs T.
The big failure under that great lady was in not rescuing education from the left wing educational establishment that has so damaged it. - Well that is bewildering above. I speak of UKIP voters second preferencing the Libdems. I can only put it down to a preference for a local individual in the voting. Say you were voting UKIP because you support their policies, but you also like Tom Brown because he has worked very hard locally and is an all roung good egg. You may not care for the party but the individual is a good 'un. That young Nigel Collor strikes me that way for example..sometimes party politics might not come into local voting.
But taking it as a complete party political animal, why a UKIP voter would second preference a Libdem is very odd indeed. Second voting for a party that is totally against the very reason that UKIP exist. UKIP are not a wide ranging party with a broad mandate so it is indeed a headscratcher. Try as they might, and Nigel Farage himself is to blame for it as he bangs on about the one issue no matter what is asked, their one issue is withdrawal from the EU..they huff and puff sometimes and say we are not a one issue party, but this notion has not been bought by the British public. - In general the public want what the public get. This piece sounds like an extrapolation of the figures too far. I wouldn't say UKIP voters are a confused lot. I suspect most of them are disillusioned Tory party voters no matter what that particular survey implies.
Those who are on a left leaning bent probably are confused and deluded (well they would be wouldn't they?) if they consider UKIP an alternative to their innate voting habits (usually consisting of My great grandfather voted labour and so will I).
In general, however, it's the more pragmatic who tend to align themselves with UKIP. They know that the tories are a mere shadow of what they once represented and have adopted liberal and left wing polices in order to maintain their position in the polls.
Hence why the tories are ridiculed for having nothing to stand for and nothing to really focus their minds except for the UK's AAA rating.
Apart from that there is very little to choose between all three main parties. - Any Party that seeks to win an election must command a broad spectrum of voter support. No Party can win from a based on core supporters.
This means that the various interest groups and wings of a Party agree and compromise programme to place before the electorate before an election.
These are not 'extrapolated figures' but a study of actual second preference votes. As such this shows up a lot of myths over where UKIP support comes from.
Paul, yes there may be some element of personal voting in the second preference but I would suggest that for an election such as the Mayoral one in the main the personal vote would have had greatest influence on the first preference and with second preferences reverting to the traditional voting pattern. - I think it is a mistake to attempt to second guess the second guesses.
The London Mayoral elections, as they are run, are a tied and retied two horse race. The second preference votes are pointless, entirely pointless.
To strain the grey-cells to encompass the necessity of counting the the 2nd preference votes calls to mind a situation where anybody gave a hoot, AND accepted that the election was only about the Red and the Blue.
OR
A third 'party' candidate stormed into pole position.
The least surprising thing about all of this is the lengths the right-wingers will go to talk-up their chances, and extrapolate on and on into the wide blue yonder, in an effort to make themselves believe that their time has come.
I come here, in the main, for humour such as this. - Strange comment that Tom, but there is nothing unusual in that.
Right wingers, talking up chances...
No - this is about the results of research. If only things were as simple as UKIP taking votes off the Conservatives over the EU because that would be an easy one then for the Conservative leadership to redress. This shows that the picture is a more complex and varied one. - There's much more to this story than meets the eye. Unfortunately, Barry, I can't post links in your blog but check out the slog's take on this. Type in the slog in google and it should come up in the first result.
- p - Slog = Simon Long - some it teccie writing in what seems a weird foreign language to me. I could not understand a word of it and could not see anything about this subject either. I assume it is the same blog you refer to. Horrible website too.
- hat4uk.wordpress dot com
Stick a www dot at the beginning as well. - That makes very interesting reading indeed. Thanks Philip and P.
- barry,allways the devils advocate,but hey never mind trade might pick up in the next 20 years or so.
- " ...bought by donations"
A very useful phrase. - a case of divide and rule i presume.
- totally frightening scenario, i cannot see a way out of it. i think the drop out rate from the euro will be quicker than barry suggests.
not just the poorer ones but richer ones like finland will break ranks. - just putting the boot on the other foot for a mo,how much does the uk owe them and the other crediters.
and futher more the euro could be around for longer than one thinks. - Old news.
- no argument then philip.
- Simply love the graphic. Truly scary
- call that scary,try bumping into mrs t in a dark ally.
- I am all for turning the 'unemployed' into a floating-resting-workforce, but hand-in-hand with the obvious immediate benefits to businesses must go real on-and-off-the-job training.
As I recall it has been the Greens, under Caroline Lucas, that have pushed for some form of general Stipend. I think they call it The Citizen's Income.
We must get away from the old notion of starving the populace into productivity. - 'Starving the populace into productivity' - so you think it is a good thing to pay people so they don't have to work.
That is part of the problem we have now and you would make it worse. - "so you think it is a good thing to pay people so they don't have to work."
You are probably not discussing Pensions or Redundancies there, I suspect.
But, you Barry, will be fully aware of the vast profits available from enforced idleness;true, the profits go one way and the idleness the other, but these Venture Capitalists have to turn a shilling just like the rest of us.
And then, of course, there is the love of the free movement of labour. The simple idea [just like the best ones, nearly] of introducing bread-line-living, fly-by-night cheap labour, as if there were not rods-a-plenty for the backs of the native working population, to afford you and your ilk another excuse to condemn the 'serf' for being of the status that you and your ilk impose upon them.
It is also true that the very profession you follow is one where you arrange to pay people so they do not have to work.
At root, it is our shared devotion to humour that makes this whole thing worthwhile.
- There is a big difference in helping people to retire on a decent income after a lifetime of work Tom, to paying working age people to sit on their lazy backsides at the expense of we hard working tax-paying mugs.
There are no profits in enforced idleness at all. There are profits in an active labour force with money to spend on the goods and services we provide. - The VP job is the most important non-job in the world. A shame the ticket isn't the other way round. A non-job would suit a non-person like Mitt Romney.
- Well the contest is certainly hotting up..insults trading back and forth and so on. The President must remain dignified in office but still fight off the onslaught from the right wingers who are currently having their convention, and of course using the event to whip up as much anti-Obama illwill as possible.
An interesting fact has emerged. Mitt Romney is not appealing to women. Despite being handsome, debonair, groomed to a clean cut t, and above all rich...he turns women off!! well I never. I speak of course in the voting sense. His wife tried to sell us Mitt as a warm package of humanity the other day but did it work?? it has had a mixed reception in the media so we all await the polls with gleeful anticipation.
So far Mitt is running neck and neck with President Obama which is a surprise to me, but should he fail to sway women voters then it could be curtains for his campaign. Barack and wife Michelle have that homely side of things sown up for the moment. But as its close, its still all to play for. - Ryan looks like a Turtle, ready at any moment to retreat into that shirt.
- It's one thing making fun of the candidates for the next election over in the States but perhaps you should look a little closer to home, Barry.
Our government is possibly the most corrupt administration for many years. It puts a banana republic to shame.
Teresa May described the tory party as the nasty party but it's far more insidious than that. They are the cronyist party making even Blair's administration seem positively saintly.
Tim Yeo, Gummer, Clegg, Cameron, every single quango sucking up public funds and hundreds more cases to boot.
How on Earth you still consider defending this awful party is beyond me.
Quite frankly I find the tory party disgusting. I used to vote for them but never more.
Ever. - This 'thinker' thinks the truth is far from good enough for him. Details in the 'US Politics' thread on the Forum.
- "Is Dave there?"
As the blacked-up character from 'Royston Vasey', used to say. The show with it's protectionism and it's refusal to pass solids.
Blame this Dave, praise the other -yada-yada-yada-. But no amount of reminiscing will alter the stark fact you cite above Barry,
" it take(s) a decent Parliamentary majority to do what is needed"
And no wishing-away one leader for another will void the need for both vision and a plan of action, sufficient unto the day and the circumstances; and such as to woo the electorate. "Wow the electorate." Will not cut it. - I see...
More of a Dorset Blue Vinney Cabinet as opposed to the old Lymeswold, but the search for Buxton Blue goes on?
For the sake of the country much effort is expended to promote the Lib-Dems as continuing patsy, much the same as hanging on to George for Dave's sake. - ...Is this Ed Balls or Crystal Balls?
...Everything that is ever done is done against the advice of some and with the advice of others.
...One must learn to take the rough with the smooth.
...That 'we' are forever missing 'our' inflation target is a good thing?
...Who in Parliament was listening to Vince Cable? Not Ed, not Dave, not George.
A, here today - gone tomorrow, politician saying he has all the answers..."well I'll go to the foot of our stairs!"
Well, you can't spell 'Global Recession' without the 'G' for Gordon and nearly all the letters of 'Balls'...Then again;Conservative always starts with 'con'.
"Does he really think that the British people are that stupid? That forgetful?"
Nobody hopes so more than Dave. - The problem here is a matter of judgement and Ball's appalling track record in that.
You did not need a crystal ball to see how idiotic the gold sale was, or how ill-considered the pension and savings issues were. It does not take a crystal ball either to know that the good times cannot roll on forever and that you have to prepare and be ready for a cyclical downturn. Balls (and Brown) has a record of repeatedly ignoring advice to our cost, yours, mine and all of us.
Yes the BoE misses its inflation target but the brief on inflation was wrong in ignoring the levels of debt in the economy and in so doing keeping interest rates too low too long. The target itself is immaterial to the problems caused by its brief.
Vince Cable - a waste of space who should be sacked from government. He is a road block to the measures needed to help small businesses grow the economy.
- Marr is an extreme Guardianista labour supporter. He has always and will always give labour MPs an easy ride on these and other matters.
One of the most appalling sights of the Olympics was the sight of George Osbourne being booed by the audience whilst Gordon Brown was roundly cheered when he attended one of the swimming events.
The public eh? Don't you just love 'em? - maybe they were cheering gordon as he has left the political scene but are dismayed that george has not followed suit, hence the booing.
they seemed to like dave and boris, must like their green credentials. - The unfortunate truth is that he hasn't left the political scene Howard. He's still being paid a handsome sum as a backbencher even though he very rarely attends the commons as of late.
He must be seething now that his great friend Tone is making millions off the back of his highly dodgy premiership.
The crowd did like Boris but then again Eastenders and Big brother are very popular television shows which indicates the level of the public's enthusiasm for z listers.
It's all rather sickening isn't it? - all this faux celebration for the olympics. Reminds me of the outpourings of grief when Diana died.
All highly embarrassing really. - As there is clear support for and joy and excitement from the Olympics and as the booing and cheering was going on at the Olympics it is little wonder that GB received his accolade.
VAT or no VAT it was Labour wot won it.
And as GB got his share of disapprobation while attending a D-Day event, so GO (and others) had their fair share also.
Yes GB etc. acted as though good times were here to stay, but few were untouched by the euphoria of house-price-rises, very few indeed who sat in Parliament at that time. The public and our economy was ill-served by the inter-party rivalry and jealousy in Parliament over that whole time, and it does take two to tango. The Tories were raking-it-in on a personal level and were, it seemed, buoyed-up by the prospect of the abject failure of New Labour, as just about their only path to victory at the Election...that did not work out too well in the end.
As we hear on these pages, three times a week, Red is terrible and Blue not awful enough. Poor you Barry, Argentina would not even suit you these days. - You certainly have a big imagination there Tom!!
I remember the house price euphoria well. I was frequently dissuading people from entering the buy to let market close to the top of the market. On particular person ignored me, extended his personal mortgage instead of clearing it down as I recommended and bought two BTLs with it right before it all collapsed. He is now age 66 and having to work through to 70 or 75 due to the problems incurred from going against my advice. To be fair it was his wife who was pushing him to get in on the act.
You have to ask why that occurred and that was down to the foolish inflation brief holding down interest rates on both borrowing and saving. - you got that first paragraph badly wrong barry, "labour acolytes and fellow travellers" much prefer the hapless duo of dave and george to remain in situ.
interesting to note that boris appeals to "sun" readers. - ....."but he does have character and personality"......
Hmmmn this is the same bloke who has been forced to apologise twice now for the piece he wrote in the Speecy about the Hillsborough disaster. Some character eh?
Add to that his colossal hubris concerning the Olympics, his apparent road to Damascus about turn on subjects like environmentalism, immigration and politics in general.
A man not to be trusted.
If this is the great hope for the tory grass roots they'd be better off campaigning for a return of Tony Blair.
The man's a prize chump and no mistake. - A European superstate would be ungovernable. Period. Full stop. Punkt. Point.
- The question being raised following this attack mentioned in Barry's piece above was whether Prince Harry is putting other members of the armed forces in even more danger by being there...him being a hot hot premier target. The reason the media went into overdrive on this was because the Taliban said they were after him. This was probably baloney but it did raise the question..ie.. is Harry being there putting his comrades in more danger than they might already have been.
These Taliban guys did a considerable amount of destruction before they were eventually neutralised. 6 American Harrier jets destroyed as I remember and another few knobbled bigtime. How they found the time to do all that is anybodys guess in the hotbed of a NATO base. Plus of course marines killed and wounded.
The point is if they had of struck gold ( from there point of view ) they would not have any qualms about doing the business.
The even worse situation there in Afghanistan is the amount of coaltition forces losing their lives to Afghan Police. 6 the other day, 4 american, 2 british. Pretty grim from guys supposedly on the same side. One former area commander was on TV the other day, one could tell he was feeling it was all pointless...'we really should be aware of the vast cultural differences that exist before invading another country like this'..said he. - in defence of all this,a scary poster of harry from the suns front page should do the trick of scaring any undessirarable.
- "The government has not been cuttting public spending fast or deeply enough, passing on the benefits of such cuts to the private sector through tax cuts to help it grow the economy. "
There is, it seems, no smoke without mirrors.
Oh, how much better the whole would look once present Government policy were to be beefed-up in line with the thinking of our esteemed Blogger and his fellow travellers. Alas, it would, in those circumstances, not be necessary for productivity to rise or for the least growth in exports over imports for a new economic dynamism to be wand-waved into media headlines. For, as with the current Conservative economic ethos so with that of dear Barry, life is numbers game. The statistics would echo the inner satisfaction of the few who gain in strictly monetary terms. That there would not be the least increase in the manufacture or sales of any particular 'widget' you care to mention, matters not one jot IF life were to be a strictly numbers-game.
"...this year government spending is actually 3% more than in the same period last year..."
This particular trend can only increase in the short to medium term. The concerted efforts to privatise willy-nilly will always increase spending unless and until the population becomes immured to the reductions in outcome. For, we shall hear:Less money means less can be done. That a greater proportion of any spend will leave these shores, directly or indirectly (minus a small percentage that will find it's way into Conservative Party Coffers), that will never be applied at the 'coal-face' other than to fix the grins of the non productive executives.
- "The UK public sector in 2010 consumed over 53% of our economy, every penny of which was paid for by the other 47% - the private sector."
Nobody, it appears, involved with the Public Sector, either: Working in;-
The Royals,
Government, (Central or Local)
The Civil Service, (Central or Local)
The Courts,
The Police,
The Prisons,
Education,(Primary, Secondary & Tertiary)
Health,
Armed Forces, etc.
[sorry if I have missed any]
or those on the receiving end of or benefit from any of the above, pay tax. If we are to credit the statement quoted above.
Therefore, there is little point in debating any issue raised as a consequence of such Sophistry.
Except perhaps the 'our economy' bit.
Yes, if our home-economics has hit the buffers, so to speak, it is entirely reasonable to address our out-goings. With a view to cutting back on non-essentials. I will not again belabour this point, but in summation I would point-up the folly of conflating Cake with Bread.
The Elephantine-Gateaux in the room is that we set aside too much from the get-go for what to the dispassionate observer may seem mere fripperies, and consequently insist upon Trappings and taps of solid gold in preference to mere gold-plate.
In short, we pay too highly in some quarters. We heap reward upon reward in some queer circumstances. That professional footballers may (rightly) spring to mind, we must set this to one side. For real, if not game-centred, reasons, as a group, these young men are not made of the stuff of debate.
[where were we?] Our home-economics have hit the buffers. You have not forgotten?
As with the highly remunerated soccer-star, those who are richly rewarded bethink themselves capable of Miracles, and when they ask for and are given extra scope - the better to work their wonders - sooner or later reality's Pigeons come home to roost.
And indeed so it was and so it is.
That it was considered unconscionable to throw bankers and sundry financiers to the wolves, or indeed onto the public dole, need not detain us here. But now we approach the nub.
'They' brought our economy to it's knees, 'they' profited the while and they are yet on the public dole - in a big way. Some Cake is to be eaten and yet had.
That 'they', continue in their work, that 'they' have yet their knees under the public table only at the cost of impoverishing the entire population and committing the same population to a generation and more of indebtedness 'they' carry-on regardless.
Whatever figure you care to put as our degree of indebtedness, the pay-out of £14.4bn in bonuses 2010/11, and £13.1bn in 2011/12 in the Finance sector would have been better spent it rectifying our National Accounts.
- Tom - first of all tax paid by the public sector is just recycled money, paid by the public sector, claimed by the public sector. All the money to pay for it comes from the private sector - every single penny. That is why I used the word 'ultimately'. Indeed all the money spent on the 'secondary public sector' as well nominally in the private sector is still recycled public sector cash - or rather our cash.
Its the government spending and taxing too much of our money that is the problem. - " just recycled money"
You can say that again Barry.
What about the large retailers. Where does their money come from? Whether they pay much tax or avoid tax, to the degree that the mi££ions they spend on accountants and lawyers remains cost-effective. Where does it come from if not from the wallets and purses of the consumer? Recycled money, yes. Every single penny!
- Tom - consumers have a choice to spend their money on goods and services they want. Businesses compete to provide those goods and services, this is how it works. That is nothing at all to do with the point I was making.
Public sector workers are paid out of taxes, some of which is reclaimed as tax, recycled back - the new money that pays the rest of their wages and all the associated costs with what they do comes from the private sector and in 2010 that was only 47% of our economy having to fund 53%, a massive burden and drag on enterprise. That is why we are in such a mess. - Barry, not only are the LibDems now working on a Wealth Tax, but since early September this year Labour have also declared they will introduce a Wealth Tax, and will gradually transfer the burden of taxation from income tax to Assets Tax.
At the rate your Tory party is going, they are unlikely to get anywhere at the next General Election, and we'll be waving good-bye to the Ice Age and start entering real life.
- Alexander - the LibDems and Labour are always thinking of ways to depress the economy and when Labour get into office they always succeed in spending other peoples money until the economy nose dives. It is a law of nature.
We must trust that the British people are not stupid enough to make the mistake of putting of those into office. - ..."the LibDems and Labour are always thinking of ways to depress the economy and when Labour get into office they always succeed in spending other peoples money until the economy nose dives"
Hmmn, Yes indeed. Much like the way the conservatives want to squander our money on renewable energy schemes and foreign aid Barry.
You are talking utter, utter nonsense. - So, he wishes to be on the Public Dole, but in a way that he sees as useful - to himself, his pals, business, and way down the line, perhaps our Economy in general.
I agree!...
Being on the Public Dole is either 'positive' or 'negative', depending on whose stand-point is preferred.
-It IS good for business to dump a workforce (or part thereof) onto the Dole. [Lower wage bill=increased 'productivity' and what the eye refuses to see the heart can hardly grieve over]
-It IS good for business to wangle their way into receiving public funds, especially if and when coupled with reduced payments into the same pot from whence the largesse comes. As much to drive down wages and further increase income on which (as previously stated) little or no tax is due.
Meanwhile...every single beach around the coast has been found to be 'overly' polluted with human waste, but rather than find employment for the many in every part of the country 'Heaven's waiting room' Bournemouth must have ready access to to a ferry port. [The 6x2 plot of grass IS greener on the other side of the Channel?]
IF borrowing to finance nobody working is a bad idea (and it is) surely the solution must be to find work for the many? All this guy wants to do is re-start house-price-inflation by employing as few as possible.
If there is money to be made from any of the schemes he espouses let him get on with it at his own expense, then and only then will the profits so realised be his. IF, all he looks for is his cut (off the top) his search for likely suckers should cast less wide a net, one small enough to match his ambitions for us all. - You make absolutely no sense at all Tom. I very much doubt that anyone can make head or tail of that.
- Blue rinse toryism. Cameron is a berk. How you continue to support this fool is beyond me Barry.
They haven't a clue these tories. They just don't have a clue. - You are a Tory Barry. This you proclaim yet again, but do you actually say anything other than that?
Putting to one side whether DDC got anything positive out of it's own zero-sum-game, or the public, likewise. [apart from the delightful 'Watty']
The;-
cast iron guarantee of a referendum...
definite No to a third runway...
NHS, safe in our hands...
etc.
When, as they say in the cowboy films, you're not packing iron, all you can do is shoot from the lip. This is as true for the Red as the Blue.
- 100% with you on this one tom, both the main parties make policies then listen to the media and public and immediately amend or ditch them.
the public do not really know the difference between them and just drift to the polling stations voting out of old loyalties to red or blue.
no doubt the blues will be given the bums rush in 2015 much as every government in europe will be when their turn comes. - just noticed that i was the first to post on barry's blog back in 2009, had a go at him then.
- Whatever Ed Miliband said, Barry, it's Labour's alternative of a Tory Ice Age.
With their rating now at 29% and sinking each week, and Labour's at 45% (these polls are only in reference to those who would vote and do not take into account the ever increasing percentage of people who would boycott an election as things stand now), it would appear that the only policy the Conservative party has at this time is to try to criticize Ed Miliband's personality.
With the Tory promise of an Ice Age lasting till 2026, I can't see this Government lasting more than a couple of months. It has become a cynical farce... - Ed Milliband - the tories best asset is likely to find himself further down the polls after today's little (over one hour, groan) speech to the parity faithful (no type).
So let's examine what he promises the country - one nation x 48.
That's it!
Brilliant.
Cameron's speech writers must have been up all night writing that one.
It was a speech made for him and him alone the useless berk. - However, Ed Miliband is careful not to make iron-cast promises, and the Tories made a number of them before they got in. It's pointless for the Conservatives, who've been in Government for the past 2 and a half years, to now hide behind the assumed personality shortcomings of the Labour leader.
We're not going to take this as an excuse or an explanation, and more and more people are just genuinely fed up with this Government! - What made me laugh about the idiot's speech was when he had the temerity to suggest that people were fed up of paying higher energy bills pretending that it was the evil energy companies (yes they're evil but not necessarily for that reason) who needed new regulation.
This from a moron who passed the climate change act which is set to double our energy bills over the next few years.
Anyone who believes any words passing through his lips needs their heads tested.
labour finished for all time?
been said many times before, they will get stuffed this time, but no doubt will be back.
you refer to the conferences as important, they are not.
all of them are stage managed for the media nowadays, the public do not take them seriously.
a shell shocked public staggering to the polling stations?
yes, but how many?
gradually over the next 7 months policies will have to be unveiled, truths(well half truths) will come out.
then the public will decide whether the blues get a workable majority or not.
they have already found one banana skin, with the health care budget, how many more will surface?