A Thursday in November, no day for an...
14 November 2012
...election.
Whoever decided to hold the Police Commissioner elections on a cold, damp November day in the run up to Christmas is either stupid or they are deliberately trying to undermine the election.
Nobody wants to canvas, nobody wants to deliver, nobody will want to 'knock-up', nobody want to be bothered at this time of year. Better things are on people's minds like Christmas, keeping warm and who is on the latest mindless celebrity game show.
Expect a turnout of 10-15% - anything more will be a bonus. In fact I just hope it reaches 10% as these elections have not exactly set the country alight.
These are important elections and an elected Police Commissioner is a good move though whether the position has sufficient powers and responsibility is another matter. Pity to damage the credibility of the result with such poor timing. It should have waited until May and be held at the same time as local elections.
- I cant get interested in this election at all...despite brave efforts by one or two programmes on radio and tv to breathe life into the whole idea, interest is limp, the concept has all the get up and go of a corpse. Somebody said earlier this morning on the Today programme that they expect the lowest turnout in electoral history. That somes it up. An election nobody wants, an idea few want.
- Disagree there PaulB.
It is a good idea - the timing of the election is what is wrong. - they would have the same power as a limp lettuse leaf,a rottwieler without teeth.
- Of course Barry you are entitled to your opinion when you say;" it's a good idea." and go on to say; "whether the position has sufficient powers and responsibility is another matter."
If indeed these elections come seven months too early, their result may well go on five years too long.
A low level of interest, a matching low level of turnout; should we then jump for joy that it is not being held under the FPTP system?
Instead of an eventual winner being mocked and hobbled -winning because they have a larger family of voting age that live nearby- they can rest easy upon the esteem of being perhaps the most voted for second preference, and then there is their deputy and the rest of their entourage.
Time again for you posting the 'Auf Wiedersehen, Pet' clip?
Democracy inaction? - I have come across that same photograph you use above Barry, in the Telegraph. It appears beside a piece written by someone who has great faith in PCCs. She is a victim of crime, and either consequently or just subsequently is a Conservative Peer, Baroness Newlove.
"I would attend local meetings to discuss the problems on our streets but we never saw the chief constable, he never heard our concerns and for me that is key – it was essential that we spoke to the top man. If you are at the top you work for the people and speak to the people, but I never saw that. I believe police and crime commissioners (PCCs) will change all of that. They will be elected by local people to serve their community and [B]they will be accountable to those electors. If they don’t do the job properly then you can vote them out. [/B]"
This is a flavour of her faithfulness. Whether any PCC will attend all such meetings may also be a matter of faith. Her full Telegraph piece can be read here...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/9671372/As-a-victim-of-crime-Im-backing-PCCs.html - Thanks for that Tom.
Yes - right now there are unaccountable police authorities with nominated members so there is no real accountability to the local communities. I think that is a better comparison than a Chief Constable.
Policing is important and for too long local people have not really had anyone to hold to account. - We (you) are to have an election, with little or no campaigning, little or less public interest, which will inevitably result in there being somebody in charge of something or other for a term of five years. This somehow equates to an increase in Public accountability.
London has a similar arrangement, we are told, yet I do not recall ever having the opportunity to vote for an accountable figure in any such position. I get an opportunity to vote (in this same crazy way) for a Mayor who in turn appoints somebody to do this for him. IF! a Mayor builds more houses and does all sorts of other 'good' things that his challenger might not do, but makes an absolute pigs ear of Policing...what then?
A week is a long time in Politics. Suffering a whole 260 weeks of an incompetent and/or wholly biased PCC only to be given a vote in another election peopled by Candidates of similar abilities and competence is an odd notion of accountability.
A Pound to a Penny, and with your support, any ineffective incumbent can readily claim that they have not been given sufficient powers or broad enough scope to be 'truely' effective. Then where do we go?
The general conduits for ongoing public opinion and concern reaching those in authority, the Local Councillors, will still be there, but will have less influence - if any.
This PCC intrusion into the process of Public's influence upon their own day to day lives serves only to add another tier to the blame-game. - Well what have we got here..yes its a letter from Craig Mackinlay..it just shuffled through my letterbox via the postman and fell onto a newspaper already on the floor...from Craig MacKinlay. In my former role I've had press releases from...Craig Mackinlay and other earlier mailings from..yes..Craig Mackinlay.
So I know who is standing...its Craig Mackinlay.
And I can predict by my superduper pollster ready-reckoner who is going to win yes..Conservative Craig MacKinlay.
as he's the only one with a budget and appears to be the only one standing!! Gadzooks !!
I've heard from no-one else at all. - You seem to reveal a deal-breaking scenario there Paul. If a pamphlet detailing the names and the statements of intent/manifestos of each and all of the candidates has not been circulated throughout the region, I fear this could be grounds for having the election called off.
Alternatively, you may only be talking of receiving additional information as only coming from one of the candidates, let's hope so.
I doubt in any case that being 'bombarded' with puff from one candidate will drive people out to vote, let alone compel them to give the job to the guy with the biggest spend. Of course this may simply be the sort of electoral ploy the Conservatives are in the news for at the moment. Perhaps this fellow merely wishes to get more of the second preference votes? - i have had absolutely nothing through my door, i know now from paul that a chap called craig mackinlay is standing and that is it.
for the first time in my living memory i will not be voting. - " A booklet will be sent to every household in England and Wales with factual information on the PCC elections."
"Jenny Watson, Chair of the Electoral Commission said: “While we don’t agree with the decisions taken by the Government about how to make people aware of these elections,...""
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/England_and_Wales_Police_and_Crime_Commissioner_elections,_2012#Kent_Police
There is a section on each area that is involved with space for the results and voting percentages.
Ye gods...where does the home secretary get the neck to make these statements/
"Home Secretary Theresa May told Sky News: "Police authorities at the moment have no democratic mandate to do this job of overseeing the police.
"The Police and crime commissioner will for the first time have a democratic mandate from the people to do this.""
A stitch-up, through and through...wait, that makes this an Omnishambles! - It is up to the candidates themselves with help and funding from supporters to get their election material out, no-one else. If only the Conservative material is received by some then it just means a better and more motivated organisation. I too have only received Conservative material, but then I did deliver some too.
To suggest some kind of anti-democratic plot suggests desperation or paranoia, perhaps both. - To claim from the outset that this election was set to deliver independent, upstanding local people taking care of business, with and for their communities, only to set a veritable Aintree obstacle course more fitting for the Grand National than for the least semblance of Democracy and 'mandate' achievement is typical of the shenanigans of the Conservative Party, as seen in the papers lately.
No wonder the outcome will be unaffected by low turnout, the voter was never intended to be in the picture at all.
No doubt some imagine that this election is there for the purchasing...not quite the result Mitt was hoping for using the exact same tactic.
I do not merely suggest the presence of an entirely undemocratic master plan afoot, it is plain to see that it is so. The Conservative Party is the antithesis of Democracy whose slogan might be,
"The fewer that can be bothered the better for we few."
Only 260 weeks to go, and counting. - This may seem naive, but why do we not simply elect chief constables? The Pcc thing seems merely to add an unnecessary layer of bureaucracy but that, I suppose, is merely following the instincts of the dinosaurs in the political elite. And we have some amazingly young dinosaurs.
- Peter - it replaces the appointed Police Committees so it is not an extra layer of bureaucracy.
- I think Peter is talking about something similar to the American system there where you have elected sheriffs. Would certainly keep the chief constables on their toes.
Toms line there...
“To claim from the outset that this election was set to deliver independent, upstanding local people taking care of business, with and for their communities..”
was what David Cameron was on about at the beginning. But although noble in concept it didn’t happen nor was it ever going to happen. No independents have the wherewithal either with finance or with feet on the ground delivering leaflets etc etc…so it was always going to fall to the party machinery. Not what was wanted.
But that is exactly what’s happening. If Craig Mac can find yours truly in my little few square feet in the corner of England, nay Kent, just one step away from La belle France, then he has a pretty good system in place covering every inch of the vast county.
The other guys we haven’t heard from at all, so they clearly have a snowballs chance in hell.
Even David Cameron himself has been deathly quiet on this one. I think the Ian Blair route is a good one…you can, rather unusually, make your voice heard more in this election by not turning up to vote at all. Some talking head on TV the other day said the election itself is costing £75,000,000 million pounds and on top of that you have the salaries for those in place right across the country all costing something like £85 - 100,000 per year for each one in place. - Yes Paul there are the salaries, and talk of deputies, and the paperwork will need doing. Would their office be in a Council Chambers, Police Headquarters or somewhere else 'plush'?
Then they will have to get around, and incidental expenses. Late meetings here there and centrally. Will this mean Hotel rooms or a series of residences?
Then the pensions and the golden goodbyes, oh, and their PR machinery. I suppose the Party will help out here and there, and, who knows, but the likes of PWC may offer free assistance.
And perhaps a Uniform, along the lines of that one other nation where Party pervades all of State operations, The Peoples Republic of China. - You couldn't make it up. A headline from this morning's news,
"China names conservative, older leadership." - Where is everybody?..perhaps they have all trundled off down to said polling booth to vote for..ermm him or was it her..or was it that other feller whatsisname..
...ermmm they will remember when they get there..errr maybe..!
The voting slip will refresh though and then its like sticking a pin in the runners for the Grand National...lol! - Telegraph readers, eh? Such a mixed bunch...
"commissioners will, like the Mayor of London, speak for local people"
Nick Herbert MP (Con)
" thank heavens for the BBC: their website provides helpful information. "
David Wood
"“I want to vote for you, but the party is insisting that I vote for our candidate.""
Carol Barratt
" I will not vote. Mr Cameron should be ashamed to call himself a Tory, representing the party for law and order. What a joke."
John Cart
You will notice that I did not put the cart before the herbert. Read them in full here...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/letters/9678744/Voters-have-too-little-information-to-decide-on-police-commissioners.html - The one that strikes me is that 'Carol Barratt' - silly woman,.
Who she votes for is her business and a matter between her and the ballot box. Of course whatever Party she belongs to will want her to vote their way, but at the end of the day it is up to her and a secret ballot. - So - a 14% turn out, the upper end of my prediction and Dover so I hear was 18%....
Pity about the deceitful Barnes woman getting elected but at least we will have a chance to kick her out at the next election.