Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
A little bit in advance, but
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/news/latest-news/southeastern-consults-on-changes-to-timetable-in-december-2014/
Southeastern has released its draft proposal for the service specification throughout the London Bridge station rebuild from January 2015.
The London Bridge rebuild is the final stage of the £6.5 billion Thameslink Programme which will also see new brand new track layout and signalling leading to the station. To allow the work to take place, from January 2015, Charing Cross services will not be able to stop at London Bridge until August 2016, and then Cannon Street services won't stop until early 2018
see link & pdf at the end of the link for the rest.
Some local references:
An off-peak all day high speed service from Deal, Sandwich, Martin Mill and Walmer as part of a circular service connecting Faversham, Ramsgate and Dover Priory. This gives faster journey times to London, direct services via Faversham and Dover to London and gives Birchington-on-Sea, Herne Bay and Whitstable an all-day high speed service.
This service will replace the existing lightly-used off-peak mainline service, meaning passengers from Martin Mill, Walmer, Deal and Sandwich wishing to travel to London and not wanting to go to St. Pancras will need to change at Ashford (for Charing Cross) or Rochester (for Victoria).
In order to moderate the financial impact of replacing a classic service with Highspeed, we have proposed to create a route-based price mechanism which will ensure that passengers from these four stations will not pay a premium when travelling to St Pancras via Faversham in the off-peak. This change in fares structure would be subject to approval from the Department for Transport.
Mainline trains will no longer be 'coupled' (splitting and joining) at Faversham and Ashford.
Reduction in off-peak services to Westenhanger and Sandling to one train per hour as per the current Saturday service.
Victoria to Gillingham services are extended to Dover Priory.
There will no longer be a fast service from Dover to Victoria. One train will be all stations to Faversham then semi fast to Victoria, the other service will be fast to Faversham (calling at Canterbury East) then a slow service to Victoria.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
am i right in thinking that high speed trains will stop at martin mill and walmer?
if so then they would cease to be high speed.
Ross Miller- Location: London Road, Dover
- Registered: 17 Sep 2008
- Posts: 3,681
They are strictly only high speed from Ashford onwards
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Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
Southeastern have published their proposed 2015 timetables. Although these trains now serve Sandwich through to Martin Mill, it is at the disadvantage to Dover.
Currently HS1 trains terminate and commence from Dover Priory, so that you know you will generally arrive at Dover Priory to find the previous service already there.
Next year these trains will commence at St Pancras, travel all the way around North Kent and then to Dover before continuing to St Pancras. This means trains will have more chance of being late.
Also most of the services will take slightly longer, not good when Dover is trying to get the service down to 1 hour.
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/about-us/latest-news/southeastern-publishes-proposed-2015-timetable/
http://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/timetables/januarytimetable/Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
That is bad news. I can't believe they are actually making the service take longer.
That;s the problem when everyone is trying to get in on the High Speed act - it becomes no longer High Speed. It also means we won't get the pick of seats any more. Noting in it for us it seems, except the loop option to Margate and whitstable.
Guest 1266- Registered: 8 May 2014
- Posts: 381
Bad news for Dover but good news for Deal and Sandwich especially as off-peak fares will be cheaper than Dover. A huge own goal by the Dover centric bureaucracy and inability to work on district wide solutions.
Jack of Hearts
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
In addition, the Chatham Mainline timetable to Victoria is now available.
What was the 'fast' train from Dover Priory to Victoria (ie fast to Canterbury) is now going to take over 2 hours
Whereas the 'slow' train will only take 1 hour 59 minutes
Again both longer than at the moment.
Jan Higgins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 5 Jul 2010
- Posts: 13,657
Going by the comments here maybe Trading Standards should be informed as it seems the High Speed is now the Slow Speed.
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Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
Times from Dover will see be just over the hour. No changes. The difference is that travellers from Deal etc will not have to change trains at Dover or Ashford to achieve HS1 access. The next objective is to achieve HS1 doing half hourly schedules from Dover not hourly.
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
If journey times are being extended now, who's to say that they won't be further? What would be acceptable? 1hr10, 1hr15?
Don't forget, every HS1 train via Deal through Dover will now be starting at St Pancras, travelling around North Kent, stopping at 23 stations before it gets to Dover.
Look at today, there are signalling problems near Sittingbourne, that would have affected trains through Dover (and Deal & Sandwich).
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
Karlos, Dover times are unaffected & may even be reduced below 1hr 6mins. The service to Deal etc is possible by re-routing which I think you infer.
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
You only have to look at the timetable.
eg dep Dover 0947 - arr St Pancras 1054 1hr7. Currently it is 1hr6, only 1 minute, but the wrong direction.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
It should be driven down to less than one hour.
Cut out Folkestone West for as start, and if people cnoose to live out on a limb at Deal and get all the benefits that confers they should accept the negative consequences too, like poorer transport links.
Oh well, Deal and Sandwichites will hog the best seats from now on and my long legs will be forced into an unconfortbale seat to endure a longer journey, for their benefit.
Little gain for Dover in all this.
howard mcsweeney1- Location: Dover
- Registered: 12 Mar 2008
- Posts: 62,352
I'm with Andrew on this one, all very well for local politicos to score points for votes but the whole point of high speed links is that there are fewer stops thus keeping up the speed.
People choose to live in lovely places knowing that there is a drawback in public transport links, as a for instance Alkham has just 3 buses a day linking with Dover and Folkestone and none on Sundays and bank holidays.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
Andrew, Howard, totally agree on under an hour. Can be achieved by removing one of Folkestone stops.
Guest 1266- Registered: 8 May 2014
- Posts: 381
Paul I find it incredible you have so little knowledge of rail services for the district. A half hourly service for Dover is impossible until the East Kent signalling phases are complete which will be at least 10 years. I agree it would be preferable not to stop high speed at Folkestone West but the demand is there and it will not happen. If you wanted a service for Dover under an hour the £5million you allocated to the Canterbury West line under the RGF fund should have been spent upgrading the Folkestone-Dover track which is notoriously slow. Southeastern are not fools and they realise the passenger growth at Deal and Sandwich. Deal used to be the terminus, harldy out on a limb. Dover will have a deprecated service but you only have yourself to blame by not having a district wide transport policy. Expecting people to travel from Deal and Sandwich and then wait 30 mins for a connection at Dover was a ridiculous state of affairs.
Jack of Hearts
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Being a terminus does not mean Deal isn't out on a limb - in fact I think it implies the opposite.
Oh well,it will enable even more "White Flight" Londoners to come down, treat Deal like a theme park, bump up property prices by buying weekend homes while squeezing out locals, and cooing to their Islington pals about the "New Whitstable". And talking of Dovorians as if we all lived in caves, despite never having actually been here.
Paul, I would like to see how times from Dover will be cut to under an hour (assuming we can get a seat), but I wish you well in your endeavours.
It may be worth pointing out that Dover already IS under an hour from London, if you are going to Stratford International. Might be worth pointing out to Docklands-based commuters.
In fact I now use Startford over St P where possible - not only is it quicker to get to, there is a far better range of shops in Westfield next door, and a great craft beer pub too. Much better than Des Vins at St P.
Paul Watkins- Location: Dover
- Registered: 9 Nov 2011
- Posts: 2,225
Andrew, I like the Stratford 'under an hour' solution. I think South Eastern have acknowledged privately St P to Dover is achievable. The two Folkestone stations are a residual result of the original St P to Folkestone journey prior to Shakespeare Tunnels being upgraded & a extra train set being added to the route. Long standing Forum members will remember the fight to get the£8m upgrade to allow HS1 to Dover. Well done Gwyn P & Nigel. The Folkestone station issue is one of
Politics now,not customer numbers. Folkestone West with extra parking is regarded as the better of the two stops. It is business customers who are telling us half hourly HS1 journeys to Dover Priory would boost Dover business. I don' t pretend to know Network Rail's ten year signalling plan for East Kent & have never heard it mentioned to date as an impediment but Jack may be right as a regular commuter (I believe).
Karlos- Location: Dover
- Registered: 1 Oct 2012
- Posts: 2,386
Of course, the surefire way of getting journies under an hour would be for trains to continue along the high speed line from Ashford to Dollands Moor opposite Folkestone Rugby Club to re-join the old line there.
http://goo.gl/maps/mDcxo
I never understood why this wasn't done.
Guest 664- Registered: 23 Mar 2008
- Posts: 1,039
Good point Karlos. I imagine that it's because the trains need to stop to lower the panniers to use the non-High Speed lines. Ashford provides an opportunity and it takes four minutes I understand.
Short of staging a coup d'etat at SDC, I just cannot see Folkestone ever giving up a stop.
Faster trains will have to come through technical improvements.